What Do You Do With Your Hands When Kicking?
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- Опубліковано 5 сер 2023
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Always a pleasure joining Icy Mike for an episode. Looking forward to our next group collab
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us 💪
I've learned so much from you! Literally a kick boxing legend!
"All answers are right, all answers are wrong" he speaks the Canadian dialect of Hard2Hurt.
Translation: Everything sucks. Everything is bs. Good luck.
@@hard2hurttrue, true
@@hard2hurt😂😂😂
Just like guitar. Tell marty friedman and michael angelo batio that their picking hands are "wrong"
I throw up gang signs when I kick so the opposition know im prepared for da streetz
Lmao
gotta let em know
4 da streetz!
Rep yo set
Why did you cut out LEG MUSCLE
To mess with you.
It's "Laeg Mossels!" Spell it right.
@@hard2hurtevil
@@hard2hurt your next video has to be you saying leag mooscles
@@hard2hurt as soon as I saw that I was like damn he cut that on purpose smh
Icy mike your channel recently has just blow up with the value of content you are sharing. Thanks so much! I love Gaberiel Varga. one of my favorite fighters and I only found him since YOU brought him on your channel. (some of us miss out alot) I also found kevin Lee, sensei seth, Rokas, and sacred boxing and so many more because of you. Thanks for always sharing with us!
Also thanks for calling out the keyboard warriors!
One of my main goals is to help creators get the audience they deserve.
@@hard2hurt Hopefully I will be able to get to one of your seminars one day or get a few of us in town to be able to host you. Be well and thanks for all the great training. I still do your leg workout from covid. Gets me sweating!
Hey Icy Mike, another UA-camr I think you would like is Coach Pillow Fists. Discovered him a month ago and I genuinely appreciate his videos for learning boxing
@@hard2hurt You've got me to follow a few people including Gabe Varga. Cheers Buddy!
I view it like
That Dutch soccer kick is nice for people who favor punching.
The post is good for people who are split between punches and kicks.
Swinging shows favor towards the legs.
That's a fair summary.
Man, I was wanted to work on using the long guard because of a Jeff Chan video I watched and my coach helped me see how I can use it effectively and also the weaknesses that I was displaying and how to seal up the cracks so to speak.
"Hart2Hurt - The Art of Set-Up". Now, there's the book we need. Not every punch needs to be "lethal", there is such a thing as powerful enough. Fucking awesome episode man. As a fencer, I find this advice invaluable.
you should do a video on centerline and kicking if you haven't already as it's something I don't hear a lot of people talk about. what I see beginners struggle with is they'll get close to throw short range punches like hooks, etc, then realize they are too close to finish with a kick and either need to step back to make some space or need for their opponent to back up to make space but what I like to do is throw for example "jab, cross, body hook" then I'll step right off the centerline to the side and throw my round kick so my leg goes right across the front of their body. I've even seen intermediate fighters that haven't figured this out and can't mix their punches and kicks together it's either punches or kicks they either have to be at punch range or kick range they can't mix both together. it doesn't always need to be forward and backward and using the teep to find your range to land the round kick, it's also possible to punch at close range then step to the side to land the round kick. plus by stepping to the side it takes you out of danger as your head is right off the centerline.
The maximum power thing is a good point. Good strikers have a whole range of power they can select from and that's what really gets you because they can throw the same combination five different ways by varying speed, tempo, and power of each shot in the combo
If you are getting consistent positive repeatable results, you are doing it right. Y'all mentioned the combat sports dudes being super dogmatic, I made a BJJ guy super mad when I mentioned that I do cross my feet sometimes. Like he started cursing me out, insulting me, when to my personal page to make fun of the two videos that are there. Then he blocked me. All because I mentioned that I cross my feet sometimes. I'm curious how he does closed guard without crossing his feet.
BRO NEVER CROSS YOUR FEET!
@@hard2hurt ironically, the thing that really set him off was quoting Ryan Hoover and saying "always and never are lies." That's when he got angry. Which is something I feel like Ryan would find amusing.
Ryan Hoover pissing people off in 3rd person.
I was called out in training for that recently but I was training in a boxing at the time and I kept trying to sprinkle in extra work on the heavy bag in between different drills. Haha. I don't have one of my own though so I thought it was my only chance to get some other practice in.
My coach says "this works for me, you guys need to adjust and find your way." If something will not work he'll show us why but he's always emphasised finding our preferred method. This video really makes me appreciate him
My school does the arm out thing, but not always as a swing for power. We teach it also like putting the arm out to stuff it against our opponent's incoming strikes or looking like we're throwing a punch.
Thanks champ for reminding me to teach other ways of holding your hands while kicking 😁
Gabriel and Icy Mike what a team up.
If I didn't take away anything else, "powerful ENOUGH," is worth its weight in gold. "All answers are right; all answers are wrong," is right behind that. Thank you both.
Sidenote: @hard2hurt I suspect that the rigidity you're naming among MMA, Muay Thai, and BJJ practitioners, and the reasons proposed for that, are likely exactly what happened with many traditional martial arts in the past. In all likelihood, their founders or most famed proponents were successful and whatever they did became both lore and law.
Icy Mike and Varga rockin' it with Leg Muscles! 🦵
I put you in ufc 4 and you are now champion mike 🙂
I'm proud of this accomplishment
@@hard2hurtlol I put you against francis ngannou and you won first round ko
I've watched this channel too much when even with the edit at 6:16 my mind fills in the "Leg muscles!"
This is a well timed video and hopefully i get train with both of you❤
6:15 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Gotcha
Excellent explanation of a subject I've been wondering about. My gym isn't real dogmatic and different instructors will teach slight variations but mostly the arm swing or posting. I had learned the double high guard variation before and when I first started training at my current gym I was discouraged by a couple instructors from using it. But I've always retained it for my arsenal and now with Gabe's tips on keeping the hips square and not worrying about pivoting the plant foot I'm going to bust it out next time I spare a guy that likes to throw lots of punches.
Really appreciate this channel. Super entertaining, great guests and very informative. I really enjoy the little philosophical drops like "there is such a thing as powerful enough".
Really good video!
Excellent. Simply excellent analysis.
I love Varga's channel, and I always love see you collaborate Mike. Great content.
Great input! I love how you guys think outside the box, not focus on only one variation.
I love using the posting. The low kicks with the guard up looks very practical and am going to start trying that. The only one im not really comfortable with is the arm swinging but maybe because i feel like i cant do it without telegraphing. So i will only do it if theres a really good opportunity. I agree though you dont need to do that to generate power and you dont need 100% all the time. Id gas out alot faster. Btw your videos helped motivate me to get back into training after multiple back surgeries. I wish people didnt have this attitude because it is also alot more fun and fulfilling to experiment and learn from different styles. The number of unique fighters you bring on is really something.
Thank you for this one! Long overdue for those crowds to hear!
"Everything is right and everything is wrong." Love that, lol. So many different ways of throwing a kick or a punch, and each one can be beneficial in some way if you can identify the positives and negatives.
So much in this video! I'm gonna have to work on all of it!
Once when i had personal session with my trainer (he teaches also group i'm in), he told me to slip, pivot and punch left hook. I "miketysoned" some whacky jump instead, but landed in good position and hook was fine. I stopped and apologized for mistake, but he made wide eyes and said: "dude that works for You, hook landed perfectly and You didn't lost balance... if it works it's fine ...". Later he even gave me separate advices on how to make those lunges faster and more unpredictable and i use it since with quite a success.
I was just looking at my own footage trying to figure this out .. cheers
Man i love this colab
Great video and perspective. I think for those that say there is only one way, it comes down to that old school martial arts dogma factor. Could be wrong. I come from a traditional Kung Fu back ground, trained a lot of Muay Thai and boxing. I’m no where near top level but thankfully I’ve trained and practiced in contexts that encouraged exploration with technique. Great video!!!!
icy ! I really need to give you credit for addressing topics that other people would rather avoid. KUDOS !! I have learnt a whole lot from watching this video.
Always great common sense approach. Great vid.
AH you bastard! you got me sayin "leg mussels" at 6:15
dude you should make a shirt of this
Make lot of sense! Thats why its so good to practice different styles if you are a striker
Awesome video
Saw Gabriel Varga on "Karate Combat." Impressive. Waiting for Icy Mike, Sensei Seth, and Jesse's Enkamp to make an appearance. Good, informative vid (as usual).
Fighting is like dancing and making LOVE, You can just feel it when you're doing it right.....
Mike!!! is he just came here? or this is a clip from last time?
I love how the boyz are keep come back to your gym, must be very fun there.
Can't believe you brought Gabriel Varga into your gym. I think he's phenomenal and has a great channel too.
100% agree on the combination of using the hip and extension. Caught a guy like that when I was first trying out Muay Thai as opposed to my karate background and had someone tell me he thought I shifted his ribs.
Great content, I would probably one of those people completely stuck to the one style. I do it as well with throwing punches too. Completely stuck on "the right way". I will give this blocked while lowkick a try. Only done the other 2. However training on a bag would probably be a bit more hard when you coming from a up moving angle.
Woooow you use a different tool for a different problem? What a time to be alive!
No on a serious note. I think you are spot on and I want to add that people often don’t know or don’t want to think WHY they are doing things the way they are doing things. You explained three methods and explained why you do what you do
I saw a post on Instagram about the MLB players, White Sox's Tim Anderson and Guardians' José Ramírez, fighting and you know what I immediately thought? I'd love to see Icy Mike's review of this fight! in fact, I'd love a series on your channel where you review sports' fights. like Malice at the Palace.
7:51 That kyokushin tech also has the purpose of off-balancing your opponent slightly so they put weight on the opposite leg- the one that you're going to kick. You're pushing them sideways to make them lean. They can't lift the leg if they're leaning on it- and just chip away. No need for speed and power there, just bone+bodyweight into the soft part of the leg- or targeting nerve bunches.
Just taught a bjj seminar. After every technique I would show 2-3 options and tell people do whatever feels best for them. I used to be the most dogmatic about techniques and my coaches changed up how they do things that’s when the light went off.
Nice
The only "wrong way" to throw a leg kick is to do what anderson did lmaoo
Imagine your leg in half 😬
Yuck
I like that short kick to the thigh gonna have to try land that one
I like posting when I kick
haven't really considered the hands up one because exactly what guys said it feels like I'm not turning over and doing much damage but think il start playing round with it
It's a gamechanger
Sometimes I come to YT just to hear Mike talk, doesn't matter what about.
I like to swing the arm and move my body to one side when I’m up against the ropes to throw the leg kick and move out the way
Especially if they committing to punch in
I like Karuhat's kick 😁the swamp man!
Waiting for the "LEG MUSCLES" call for you to edit it out is heartbreaking 💔... genius way of getting comment engagement to please the algorithm though so well played sir, well played.
Gabriel Varga:"I'm the one who pressures"
True story
It's understanding that there is a best way... for speed or power and then there is getting the job done.
Both of you very good teachers. Love Seth and the boys, but Gabe and WB sure are scary good.
Always a fresh take over here at hard2hurt 🙏
7:50 is where it's at. My favorite teaching point from this one.
You dont have to swing your arm but a lil shoulder/upper body counter action adds a lot
Bas Rutten posts, which is a great way to hurt almost anyone, but it depends on the individual. Great video Mike and Gabriel
at the basis of everything is the human body, and there are common baselines, but we can all be slightly different in our physiology and mind-muscle connections. Throw on top of that the context of the situation and goal, and you have so many variations that can work! If you work from the common baselines as a way to understand your own body and what feels good for you, while keeping an open mind to what COULD work for you, you're golden!
Varga sparring Stephen would be interesting 🎉
Mike, what company are these shin guards you’re wearing from? They look like they’re really good
Hard cut before Mike said "LEG. MUSSEL" @ 6:15 really blue balled me
One of the things people forget is while the kicks may be less powerful without hand movement, trying to kick as hard as you can all the time will waist your energy and tire you out super quick. I’d rather keep my hands up and have some gas in the tank. Great video and great insight.
Absorb what is useful, discard what is useless only works once you have enough experience to know the difference. Most people just do what's comfortable, which isn't always the best.
I like kicking with guard up, because it's more intuitive to follow up a kick with something
@hard2hurt Also.. powering up each shot to the max is a sure way to gas out in 10-15 seconds :D
I grew up fighting in karate tournaments as a Wing Chun student we incorporated Tang Soo Do and Karate kicks due to the 2 points for kicks rule... It evolved during my time growing up but I never liked high kicks.... I use a front kick or front snap all the variations of a side kick sweeps and stop kicks and a low crescent. I rarely kick above the waist.
They mostly use the side kick and the spinning hook nowadays.... I'm trying to get them to sidestep 90 degrees and mule kick to fight on the run.... I think there may be a lack of creativity with the younger kids in my teachers school
Ernesto Hoost teaches to swing the arm down and wrap the other arm across your face like in a cross arm guard.
Ricky Bobby has been asking for this one
point fighters dont focus on blocking as much since it is first to hit or score. or other styles like Taekwondo, we were taught was designed for ground fighter vs mounted solder, so they have awesome high kick but they aren't concerned with blocking since they are knocking someone off a horse. exhibition fighters have rules so they dont have to worry about groin shots, foot stomps. in my style we always posted or was guarded. we didnt tend to do longer roundhouse kicks where you roll your hips or rotate the foot, that was more for medium range or longer range attacks, for closer ranged the low body kicks, leg kicks, groin kicks, foot stomps the short kicks we tended to do front kicks, or crescent kicks so didnt need to rotate the foot / hip to get max power, it allowed more speed to get the foot back down / change angle / follow up technique / setup for a sweep.
A pair of goats sharing priceless knowledge tyvm !
The main reason Thais lowkick with more rotation is to avoid injury. If youre kicking upwards with the flat side of your shin like Joseph Valtellini you risk breaking it. Especially if youre fighting since youre 8 years old with no shinpads and everyone checks kicks. I prefer the Valtellini style since i dont fight and its super effective when sparring with shinpads haha
I think is has a lot to do with if the coach or teacher is still training to improve or not. It takes work for them to learn it, drill it, and then be able to instruct it. If they don't put in the effort to learn it what makes you think they will put in the effort to create drills and practice time for it. The only cover what is familiar because it is easy to construct a class around what they already know.
I was waiting for that LEG MOOSL
When we drill technique and I do it "wrong" my coach often says what I did was not "wrong" and shows different ways to use what I did. Then, for the sake of drilling a specific technique, we go back to what he has shown. He also plays around with our "mistakes" to see if and how he can make it work.
10:17 The "LEGIT" Martial-arts ... 😂😂 The things we hear on internet
A good coach or teacher in anything will be mindful of individual differences in their students and try to accommodate them, to play to their strengths.
A constructive question (i hope so):
If you're working with beginners, would you flood them right away with tons of information regarding one technique and leave them with "choose whatever works for you"?
I'm asking, because I think amount of new data a rookie has to implement for a certain technique is pretty overwhelming. I saw people going crazy when listening on how to perform a jab for the first time. Body weight, twisting fists, right hand up, good posture, etc. and there are thousands of ways to throw a good jab.
My thesis is:
if you work with newbies, give them whatever works best for you. A form to follow and once they become intermediates / once you work with intermediates or advanced guys, teach them to break the form and chase for "whatever works for you".
Right / Wrong / Something in the middle? ;p
in my experience - or rather: for me personally - more information is always better (I would want to avoid as many mistakes as possible right away) early on, simply because every repetition done wrong settles in your neuronal path ways and over time stores as memory in your muscles, think of procedural memory people have riding a bike. Such movements get very automated through repetition. Problem is: It really sucks to change such patterns, once they are settled. classic example: some taekwondo schools emphasize kicks so much that they neglect their guard against punches. People fall back to those habits of dropping the guard even after years of practicing proper boxing.
I wouldn't call it "flooding" though, there is no point in giving an hour long lecture, obviously. The value of a good coach is that he corrects your mistakes on the fly with as little disturbing your rythm as possible. A great coach thinks of adaptions for you (your anatomy, your strenghts, your habits that you are equipped with already) basically saving you from years of trial & error to find your moves through experience yourself.
We had a Judo guy locking people down in BJJ and most students (basically all below blue belt) had troubles escaping. One time that Judo guy was missing from class and our instructor decided to dedicate the full session to counter those locks, being tired of that guy holding almost everyone down at will during sparring sessions.
He showed multiple basic techniques. None of them worked for me, to this day I still don't know why - maybe my arms are too short and I don't get the leverage - or whatever. However, once my coach noticed that those techniques really didn't do it for me, he turned on his brain-computer for like 5 seconds and then came up with a specific technique tailored towards me, bearing in mind I had good leg flexibility and that I could just use my hamstrings to push him away. It was incredibly easy escaping afterwards, I almost felt stupid - months of being terrified of that position turned into some "cute" lock I could get out of at will, all that through a tiny input by someone who knows what he is talking about. That's my interpretation of good coaching.
as a thumb of rule, in order to not get overwhelmed, always start with easy movements and basics first. Do a thousand jabs, understand the jab, make it yours. With every repetition, be aware of the details: Do your hips rotate correctly, are you balanced, do you telegraph (retract), what's your posture, what part of your fist hit the target, is your guard on point et cetera.
Only then move on and repeat the same drill with a straight punch from the rear hand.
It might be boring but it is worth it. Only then move one to a one two and add new techniques. Can't solve a difficult math problem without being good at multiplication either, right? Same thing.
Hey Icy Mike, I wanted to get your opinion on something. A little about me, I’m 32 yrs old, a blue belt in kenpo and am about to start my training in Muay Thai and bjj. I’ve been working on this theory that there are potentially 5 stages to an attack and in order to be proficient in self defense you should know how to handle each situation. 1)posturing, 2) the initial attack, 3)throwing hands 4)grappling/takedown 5) ground fight. Granted not every altercation has exactly all these steps and in this order but I reasoned this could be used as a general rule of thumb. What do you think? Do you agree that in order to be competent in self defense it is a necessity to cross train since no on style completely covers all of these aspects with sufficient training (ie karate’s curriculum is a majority of strikes and locks while only a small portion is dedicated to groundwork while bjj would be majority ground with small emphasis on strikes) and become a well rounded martial artist? Or do you think it’s better to just train one style?
I believe you are currently overthinking your approach to training because you lack the context that comes from training. So my current advice is to go train.
I said LEG MOSSCLE out loud alone in my living room.
8:45 my take on this part is, the point at which a student is ready to break out and explore the form of their [kick, throw, etc.] is the point where they already *know* they're ready for it, and the teacher should recognize and allow for it. If not, not only is this hampering the student's technique, I'd tend to think they're never going get out of their own head
sounds like where to put your hands depends on your situational awareness during the fight?
So it is more of a crescent kick?
Nice one Mike, but next time please add Kyokushin to the ‘legit martial arts’ 😉
we were taught to keep your guard up in case your kick is countered or jammed. if you have to swing your arm to get that extra 5 lbs of force to make your kick effective, your kick mechanics are poor. but like he said, nothing works for everything.
Watch a lot of high level Thai fighters throw right round kicks on the pads or heavy bag, and you’ll notice that their LEFT hand momentarily swings down as they initiate the key, yet returns to the side of their head by the time the kick makes contact; they DO NOT keep their left hand up the whole time. (Watch some videos at .25x speed). I haven’t heard many coaches talk about that. Thoughts?
Is this usually when they are doing many kicks in a row? If so, its because the drill is more for conditioning, speed and cardio so swinging the left hard slightly first helps keep the rhythm going so you can max out speed and power and smash those kicks out
I think another thing that comes into play is that you change both physically and mentally with practice and age. Your hand positioning with kicks is gonna change over time because you are changing.
When you learn mashal arts, we all learn the techniques and the movement. But everyone seems to miss is experience!
Because you are learning a fighting style. You have to make it your own fighting style!
Use what works for you and even and on to your technique.
Just keep learning and understanding your fighting style, at is the real experience!😔✊️
Honestly it comes in waves. I remember not that long ago back kicks and spin kicks were considered useless. Until someone comes in and uses them effectively.
Yeah
It is not on the teacher. It is on the individual! The teacher is there, to give you the direction! The student is there to find their own way! This is how innovation is created.
All the options are laid out for you, do what you see best fits in the moment. Train how you fight.
Some people act like fighting is done between 2 robots, it’s not that, fighting isn’t trading textbook perfect diagrams of strikes, it’s chaos with a whole bunch of variables that dictate what you’re trowing out and what you’re setting up, sometimes crap technique is a part of a setup.
What is your advice for the average person who doesn't have the time, budget, will, motivation, etc. to spend months or years in fight training, but wants to do SOMETHING effective to improve their ability to protect themselves and their family from the brutal realities of a violent criminal ambush/attack? I'm thinking a few seminars a year like Craig Douglas' ECQC course, but that's likely far too intimidating for most people. Any other solutions in that arena?
Last time i was this early my parents still loved me
Or at least pretended to.
i remember getting so much shit for not always turning my support foot to kick. we are not equal, i have a specific hypermobility in my hips that allows me to easily turn my feet 90deg inward without stretching. i can have my foot pointing straight at my partner and entirely turn my hips into the kick.