A War of Dreams & Destiny | How Rebirth Sets Up a Controversial Third Game (FF7 Spoilers)
Вставка
- Опубліковано 1 чер 2024
- An extended/improved version of this video can be viewed in this hour-long thematic analysis supercut here:
• REBIRTH RESOLVED - Ext...
FF7 Rebirth sets up some very interesting crossroads for Part 3 to go down. Let's explore.
Chapters:
Intro: 00:00
A Dream of Fighting Fate: 02:27
A War of Ideals: 05:29
Schrodinger's Aerith: 06:52
Destiny's Crossroads: 08:06
Road A - Everyone's Waiting : 10:27
Road B - A Little Life: 13:21
Road ??? - Prismatic Compression: 16:48
Fond Remembrance: 18:44
Twitter:
/ joshiepoo25
#finalfantasy #finalfantasy7 #finalfantasyvii #endingexplained #spoilers #videoessay #analysis #aerith #clerith #cloti #sephiroth - Розваги
Even if the option for Aerith to come back did exist, I'm honestly not sure she would take it. My main reason for this is the discussion she has with Sephiroth in chapter 13, where the game establishes that Sephiroth wants to achieve eternity, and Aerith responds by saying that nothing can ever be eternal. To me at least, this scene seemed to establish the core of the conflict between Sephiroth and Aerith. Sephiroth has no respect whatsoever for the natural order of things, and denies the inevitability of death, whereas Aerith accepts death as a part of life and believes that everyone should live life to the fullest while they still have it, so that they can be at peace with their death when their time comes. If I'm understanding what the game is trying to say correctly, then I highly doubt Aerith will come back from the dead, as her revival would go against the ideas presented in chapter 13, as well as in her "dream world" in the lifestream, at the start of chapter 14. If Sephiroth represents defiance of the cycle of life and death, while Aerith represents acceptance of that cycle, it would be very odd for Aerith's story to end with her actually defying the cycle. So yeah...put me down as a Road A supporter I guess. 😂
Good point!
We may get a bit of a runners up prize to split the difference.
It seemed that Rebirth set up a dream world in which both Aerith and Zack are “Alive”, or at least a dream of them still living. Something that isn’t quite an afterlife.
I suspect that this will be used in the early game to align the player with Clouds belief that she is still alive and can be saved.
During the mid game when Sephiroth uses this as leverage and offers us the opportunity to reject death, both Cloud and the player will be on board.
Eventually we will learn that this wasn’t such a great idea.
We will then prove that we accept and have come to terms with death by turning around on this idea and defeating Sephiroth.
This is where we would get an FFX like “Tearful farewell” as predicted by Cait Sith in Loveless.
It feels that something like this is being set up.
If Aerith & Zack return to a dream before eventually reaching the Lifestream in full, they may get a bit more “life”. A slightly happier ending with more closure before eventually getting the full afterlife described in the video, whether we see it or not.
In some way,i can understand both points of view, Aerith's One and Sephiroth's One....She's a Cetra,She Is used to know and accept this kind of order of things,her mother made her grow up helping her to understand such things as her Natural inheritance since the beginning.But Sephiroth???He has NEVER had the chance ti live HIS true Life,Because,since before he was born,someone else (Hojo and Shinra) had chosen for him what he would have become,the Path that he has to follow,to fulfill not a purpose chosen by him,but the purpose fir what they created him.Can you really Imagine how much desperation,rage,confusione, sorrow, madness,can lead all this in the soul of a Person???How could he happily accept to die and disappear,peacefully descend into nothing,even before can have the Joy to taste the true flavour of Life,Because a fucking alien entity took control of his own Life even After every attempt from him to be a decent Person??I think he's understandable...and i think he deserves some Justice,to have the necessary peace to finally be ready to go....
Very nice job. I love the editing! I really appreciate the thought you put into multiple paths forward. Very well done.
Thanks, Prof. :)
Wow I loved this! I've listend to so many people talking about where we might be going for part 3 and I've enjoyed it all for the most part but this is the first video that's made me feel like.. everything's gonna be ok, if that makes sense?😅 To try and explain a bit better, I've loved Remake and Rebirth a ton but after the ending I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a bit worried about where they might be taking the story but hearing how you break down 3 pretty different ways they could choose to take it I realized I'd be fine with any of them. I'm fully on board with where ever the devs want to take us, it's clear they love these characters so I'm sure they won't let me down. Thanks again for the great analysis.😃
Nice. Thanks! Yeah, I think most the common frustrations of the ending are exactly how the writers want us to feel, so the emotions will hit when we revisit the death in part 3.
Majestic journey of a video. Thank you.
Thanks 😊
I remember a quote from the Persona devs about Royal's ending. There's a secret scene you can get by performing certain tasks in the story. The scene has some pretty major implications. When asked about it they said (and I'm paraphrasing) "players who got that scene wanted it to happen, so to them that scene is real".
I think that might be where this trilogy is going. The other dream worlds in Rebirth represent different interpretations of the story. I could see it going two ways; they have multiple endings and its up to each player to pick "their canon", or its one, very ambiguous ending and whatever the player takes away from it is "their canon".
I always saw the Affection system and player choices were the actual 'player-- us' being part of or a meta extension to Cloud's identity crisis.
When Cloud regained his true self in disc two... These systems disappeared for the most part.
Interesting. 🤔
Responding to the thumbnail. I don't think Part 3 will have multiple endings.
Saw you in the latest FFtv podcast! The show was great, love the three of you together talking about theories, if SE can arrive at something between what you've guys were saying, I'll be satisfied.
Thank you! Love your tunes.
@@Joshiepoo2525 ❤️ that means a lot
Nice Video loved it
Ive waited so long for someone to give a theory of a positive ending. Im so desperate for her to survive! Brianna White made her so lovable.
This! I don't get the naysayers who are so focused on an exact remake, when the community spent YEARS trying to acquire an ending different than the game had. The "you can revive Aerith if you..." rumors are nearly as famous and well known as Aerith dying to begin with.
Such a great video
With all multiverse stories in the life stream, I believe that square is setting up a super 4th wall break. Where we "the gamers" are apart of the life stream, all living our own timeliness in the life stream connected but separate thru experiences. If it does happen I think it's a beautiful ending to a 30 year old story
Square’s gonna make multiple endings just so fans can continue to argue what’s canon and not for another 30 years 😂 😅
In a way, the "Re-trilogy" having a happy conclusion fits perfectly with many of the FF7 themes. What better way to convey the message of loss and letting go of the past, than by changing the ending, therefore challenging the player to let go of their nostalgia, and embrace that which has still yet to come?
Very Rian Johnson of them. 😂
So instead of making peace with loss and death, which is the natural consequence of life, you go back in time and prevent the death.
You know that’s how supervillains are made right.
No time travel. She’d just travel from the dream world to the real world like Tidus.
@@Kodiie I never mentioned time travel. I also never mentioned Aerith living at the end. (Although admittedly, I hope she does.) If you fully watched this video before commenting, you'd see that an example of a happy ending was suggested without the need for either of these things. Cloud could simply live out his life, and meet everyone again within the Lifestream when he dies, and meeting everyone again would give comfort to Cloud and allow him to accept his own death.
There is a way you could do this similar to the ending of Rebirth. You could have a scene in which Cloud is seemingly talking to nobody, the camera pans over his shoulder and Aerith is now standing there. They have a small conversation, Aerith reaches out her hand, Cloud takes it and they both fade into the Lifestream. Sort of a "Aerith came back to guide him when it's time for him to go." Idea. The only big difference that would need to change for the ending to be "happy" would be the fact humanity wouldn't be wiped out after 500 years.
I will admit I find it to be rather funny how those that are stuck on the themes of the original, and want the "Re-trilogy" to have the same outcome as the OG, are also the same people that are struggling with the very themes they're so adamant has to be conveyed in a certain way. It's a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts.
I agree but from a slightly different angle. OG FF7 taught us (as children) an important lesson about life and death and grief. But now (as adults) we're living in a pretty bleak world. We could use some childlike hope and to be able to believe in miracles again.
I **need** Zack to be vindicated in the third game. The feeling of fighting through Reunion (Crisis Core), knowing Aerith was waiting; then to die like a dog and not say goodbye while she falls for Cloud has stuck with me.
If neither Zack nor Aerith get a second chance then I would actually be pissed I think. Otherwise, what's the point in the thematic ideas of fighting your fate that they introduced if nothing changes?
It's SE trying to stretch the game into 3 parts to me lol. They gave people something to talk about, but the truth it is the same game, it's FFVII.
Well, i don't mind seeing different ending, yet I highly doubt it'll be so significantly different.
They add a bit more of salt and sugar here and there, but the dish served has always been the same.
Another beautifully made video!
Thank you 😊
let me ask you people a question is tifa going to save cloud from his mental state in part 3
I think so
@@franimal86 tifa better save cloud in part 3 if she does not and do something else and no one else is going to buy part 3.
100%
@@Joshiepoo2525 so do you agree that tifa is going to save cloud from his mental state in part 3.
Her lifestream scene is done over. She may help a different way but not the same.
Another great one!
Thanks!
Im not really against big changes from the OG and i kinda saw the (kingdom hearts) confusion as to whats going on with the multiverse thing, but in the final battle in part 3 i can see everyone come back (aerith and zack and the avalanche members to join forces to take down sephiroth and stop meteor even if its a multiverse version of them, if sephiroth merges all worlds together then i can see an ending where zack is alive as well as aerith biggs wedge and jessie, and with the new ever crisis episode we have now seen a (good?) Version of sephiroth standing in the edge of creation. Maybe we fight alongside the young Version of him or a good Version of sephiroth and square enix really is giving him a redemption arc? I wouldnt mind that aslong as theres a semi god safer sephiroth version of him to take down
I can never get over the name "safer sephiroth". Like bro, he aint safer to be around in boss form cuz he can kill us anywhere anytime lmao
Team Jenova having the same existential goal as Team Seele in the Evangelion franchise would be one of many relevant similarities between both franchises. Perhaps.... Perhaps the metaphysics of achieving individuation depicted in the ending within Evangelion 3.0+1.0 Thrice Upon a Time leaves some important clues for the conclusion of Final Fantasy 7.... Recompile!
Im with that idea of ff7 part 3 having muiltable endings for all the characters that all become canon depends on the path you take what actions in the game play you presue I won't be mad with square enix for doing that to my all time favourite game that will be the ultimate ending to a great master piece
Ah no it will ruin it. The ending should remain the same. It’s a central these of the game.
I've nothing against the "Fighting against Destiny" plot, as there are plenty games I like that do this. Though, in this instance, it just seems as if that is exactly what Sephiroth wants and Cloud & Friends are just playing into it because the plot demands it, which wasn't good enough for me at the time.
In a world where the multiverse can exist, where even Barret or Zack can come back to life on a whim, where the Black Materia itself is just a fake, its hard for me to feel or care about much of... anything moving forward.
This was a good video though. If anything, I am morbidly curious at how this trilogy will end.
I don’t think there’s a multiverse. If Aerith is able to come back, I think it would purely be because of her deep connection to the planet. It would be a very unique exception. But like I said, she doesn’t need to come back. I’d probably prefer she doesn’t.
I admit, I'm confused by people's insistence on "canon" endings. Especially if it's the last entry. Why bother implementing choice in a game if it isn't going to have an impact on how things turn out? It may suck to get a "bad" ending based on your choices, but that's kind of how life works. Everyone is allowed to feel the way they do about it and I'm not pretending I have the "correct" viewpoint.
There is a possible theme about death here that isn't discussed and I think it is germane to the story. That is, while the future may be unwritten, the past is set in stone. It isn't possible to go back and change things. I think that the Remake Trilogy has been working along these lines.
A lot of people were upset at how the ending obfuscated Aerith's death and lessened its impact. I argue that it was never going to have that impact. Most of us (if not all) knew it was coming. It's one of the most famous game scenes of all time. So even if it played out exactly as it did originally, it wasn't going to land as hard.
Instead, the developers knew what we would be thinking and feeling in that moment. So they played into it. They let us think, for just a moment, that we changed fate. That what was done could, finally, be undone.
Only, we can't change the past. We didn't save her. I think the next game will probably explore acceptance of that.
Or, I might be wrong. The next game could be everyone riding off into the sunset, laughing at Destiny.
ua-cam.com/video/zE77gooam1w/v-deo.htmlsi=ey-OhabQWQAzNTbX - how general changes to the series set up for something crazier?
I am done with bittersweet endings in ff games it’s getting pretty old. I would like a mostly happy ending for once. Keep either Zack or Aerith alive maybe both is too much but yeah
Yeah the more I relisten to my video the more I think they have actually earned the happy ending this time.
The things is FF7’s theme is solely just life. And life is honestly bitter sweet. I think it’s the one final fantasy game that it’s ok to have this theme when it purposefully was made to be that way.
@@sxultima True, but life can be a lot of thing.
@Joshiepoo2525 Yeah, but the theme clearly was about life and death. How people die and they don't come back.
Then respectfully you don’t like or appreciate FF7 and it’s writing.
Very good refs
Anything, but that lost garbage. I’d honestly rather it have multiple endings and this ‘dream world’ that clearly has physical implications pays off into something real.
If you're under the impression that on Lost they were dead the whole time, look it up. It was a widespread misinterpretation from a time before "ending explained" videos. 100% debunked.
I feel that the cloud we play as will stick to og plot in one way or another to tie in with advent children, however if the other time lines continue to exist for whatever reason, its just a reason to give the aerith fans an alternative for aerith being alive in another timeline but not for our cloud. Its a cheap way of lessening aeriths impact of her death but ehh?
I don't think there are other timelines. Just dreams of wishful thinking that can make an impact on reality.
Great video, I think you approach these ideas more concisely and digestibly than I have seen elsewhere.
I have 3 people close to me that have yet to finish it. This is where I will send them when they are done.
Appreciate it, thanks!
@@Joshiepoo2525You got my mind running regarding an afterlife ending.
In the mission Promises to Keep, Nanaki promises the Gi that he will lay them to rest.
I felt this was set up for a mission in the next game, DLC or stand alone title.
What if we got a dlc to part 3 set 500 years in the future, where Red is on a quest with his cubs, fulfills his promise to the Gi before finally laying down to rest himself.
He is greeted by Aerith, who tells him the others are waiting.
I think that’s possible, and when the Gi are gone, Seto can finally rest too.
It's interesting that they saved Cid and Rocket Town for Part 3, given how much Remake+Rebirth are making it clear that their "timelines" are dreams/memories (and futures?):
"Cid: There was so much excitement about the thought of going into outer space. Our dreams got bigger and bigger. They put a major budget into it and made prototype after prototype!...And so, Shinra nixed their outer space exploration plans. After they told me how the future was Space Exploration and got my damn hopes up...Then, it was all over once they found out Mako energy was profitable...My dream was just a financial number for them! Look at this rusted Rocket. I was supposed to be the first man in space with this. Everyday, it tilts a little bit more. At this rate, I don't know which will come first, this thing falling down or me gettin' outta here."
Obviously these ideas of Rocket Town, the leaning rocket, etc. could be hugely Symbolic in Part 3.
God I hope Aerith lives in ff7 part 3
She will, have faith. So many think she is dead, but she isn't.
Why tho
I really can’t understand why “fans” want it to be anything other than FF7.
Honesty a changed ending i'd be ok with but keeping Aerith alive would be a mistake imo, its such an important part of the whole ff7 saga and its what ff7 is all about life and death and how to deal with grief and loss. Its kinda a slap in the face to the whole thing if they change that part and it turns out she can be saved. Thats the issue with multiverses tho is that no one is never really dead so theres no stakes. The og ff7 has one rhe most beautiful endings in media so im hoping they dont stray too far from it
Thankfully there’s no multiverse. It’s just dreams of wishful thinking, as far as the clues tell us so far.
@@Joshiepoo2525 thankfully?
@Joshiepoo2525 hasn't it been confirmed tho that it's a multiverse like by the creators. I dont think that would be a red herring either. I was also thinking the same until I heard its been pretty much confirmed its a multiverse
@@mitchrogers4217 They said we could think of it as a multiverse in a way, but I believe the devs also specifically told us not to think of it as a traditional multiverse. So, not a comic book type of multiverse. Given what the game has shown us, I took this to mean that It's a multiverse in the sense that there are multiple "worlds" within the lifestream all existing at once, but these worlds aren't fully functioning realities with their own timelines of events. They are created from the dreams, memories, and unfulfilled wishes of the souls within the lifestream. So there's one real/physical world, and then a whole bunch of lifestream dream worlds.
What devil hunter said. There’s only 1 real world. The rest are bubble worlds made of dreams and memories. Like FFX. Very spiritual. Definitely not a multiverse IMO.
The creators did not confirm anything concrete. They said there are multiple “worlds” just like the game, and specifically said there’s no parallel realities. People take dev quotes and use them to confirm their own theories every time.
I said “thankfully” because there is no room in FF7 for that deep convoluted sci-fi IMO.
Fantastic video. Pretty much agree 100% with everything you said about the games and the trilogy as a whole. I do hope that Road A is the one they take, though.
After playing Remake, I felt like the final game would NEED to be multiple choice if they wanted to pay off the idea of fighting fate. Otherwise, you aren't so much fighting against the concept of fate as you are trading one fate for another. Multiple endings would solidify the idea that you have some degree of control over your future and there's nothing stopping you from following the path you choose.
After Rebirth I think that seems even more likely. Don't forget that Zack talked about just wanting to ensure that whatever world he ended up with would be the one that HE chose to be a part of. I can see the end of part 3 requiring you to choose whether to save a dead character like Aerith or Zack, or ensure Sephiroth's complete destruction.
Why the game not selling
The story is still about death. After doing all these open world chores and boring minigames for low iq brain damaged consumers something in fact died inside of me. And considering the introductions of multiverse, multiple timelines, merging alternative realities, we have infinite valid interpretations of which not a single one essentially mattered. Aerith could actually just jump off a cliff for no reason whatsoever other than filling the gap in the plane of all possible outcomes and it wouldn't matter to me. There are infinite realities in which she lives. Happily ever after.
Maybe. But the story isn’t over yet.
Strong video!
I don't think "destiny" is cheap, or a trope. Expanding upon this, it's the exploration of free will versus determinism, which Rebirth double downs on... Be it the NPCs in Aerith's dream, Zack being conscious of his multiple endings and in the last instance trying to retain some choice by opting to jump over the railing... Even Cait Sith's Loveless performance clearly hammers this home. These all heavily imply that the universe is ultimately deterministic, regardless of any preceding facade of choice.
Interestingly, the game seemingly hinges on one moment, one choice. Cloud's 7 second choice.
11:45 i still think the remakes happen when cloud dies in advent children and we'll end when he gets up with everyone literally meeting him in the church in the final scene of the movie... a thing a lot of ppl forget happened.
That would actually be pretty sick.
This is the best video I've seen on FF7 Rebirth. FF7 being a celebration of life is the first interpretation I've seen that manages to justify Aerith living without it being a thematic betrayal to the core message behind the OG.
Aww thanks
These videos really deserve more attention. Very few analysis videos on the trilogy have been as thought provoking as this.
Thank you. 😌
Its pretty much guaranteed that she will come back in the reunion
To be honest I am shocked that people are falling for the “it is a sequel” thing. Character's having vague knowledge of the future does not mean that that future has already happened. That's a foolish assumption and I just have this hunch that the answer to this question lies in one line spoken by Sepherioth at the end of the first game. “Careful now, that which lies ahead does not yet exist.” I think Sepheroith is talking about the OG events after leaving Midgar. I think we are making way to big a deal of everything, and forgetting how minimalist the original game actually is, it's great to be sure but it doesn't have a lot of connective tissue so to speak. Things very much happen out of nowhere and characters are quite shallow for most of the game. The remake seems to be trying to give explanations for the original story and compilation materials plot holes. Multiple endings would mean that the devs have no faith in their vision and I just don't think that is the case here. The message about fate is quite simple don't be a slave to your circumstances. Being on a set of tracks doesn't mean you have to follow the same path even if you end up in the same place in the end. Humans make choices every day and not all of them matter, but what does matter is that we our choices are part of free will. Like sometimes you can't always avoid an outcome but trying to still means something.
I think that’s possible and I agree with a lot what you said. But as far as being a sequel goes, I think the response to that is also blown out of proportion. All anyone means by that is that characters have memories of the future and audience knowledge of those memories improves the experience if gained before playing. There’s an order of consuming FF7 stories that enhances Remake/Rebirth when consumed last. But IMO the answer to the question of if it’s a sequel or remake or whatever is “all of the above.”
@@Joshiepoo2525 I think it's is fair to say that. It's just that given the nature of the lifestream and the fact that Sephiroth tells the party that he traveled it in the original I think that alone is enough evidence that the remake is much more faithful than a lot of people claim. My thought has been that AC will still happen but now it will make sense.
The lifestream is a catch-all gotcha that allows them to have their cake and eat it too. Seph could literally say “I miss Kadaj” and just be about visions he had in the lifestream when he died in Nibelheim.
@@joshz2491the devs DID confirm that the remakes will lead into AC so thats a relief
I’ve always thought that since Cetra learned how to maintain themselves in the livestream, while everyone else just fades back into it, a fitting end would be Cloud lives out his life with Tifa, but when he dies he encounters Aerith in the lifestream, and the two finally have their time together.
The whole remake of 7 has been controversial to me, not just what the third will be. Sticking with the og story is all they should have done
A very well done video. I agree with almost everything, just not with the Tifa resolution scene marking a change for Cloud. This is because the Ultimania revealed that Cloud cared more about being Tifa's hero than her feelings in it. It really made me like the scene less, which is quite a shame.
In regards to the ending, I truly hope for a happy one this time around. I think Aerith especially deserves happiness. She has sacrificed so much and never asked for anything in return. I am also tired of tragic endings, to be honest. My first Final Fantasy was FFXV. I was so sad when I found out the happy ending was turned into a book. The theme of defying fate appeals to me because it shows to me that having hope is not stupid or futile.
I hadn’t heard that, but I think the art matters more than artist comments in supplemental material personally.
Happy endings are for children. Adults have tragedy and comedy. One to emulate life. The other to make us forget it.
- Aristotle
It's all about the flow of emotions. If you don't have positive ones irl, you may want escapism. Children can be happy all the time. Adults are tuned to ups and downs of life. Just enjoy the artism, because that was what og ff7 gave to video game industry.
Cloud nor Aerith will be saved without Tifa's help. If Aerith's meant to be alive Tifa will be the one who gives hand to Cloud. I bet the part 3 will be 90% of Tifa helping Cloud's getting grip on himself and him trying to get out from Seph's grip.
In other words, Cloud saved by Tifa in part 3 will be pretty much inevitable if we want Aerith saved. The materia Aerith gives to him won't work unless he's right in his mind.
Here, your statement about insignificancy of Tifa's role won't be valid.
Zack and Aerith will probably appear again, be it in physical form or no, they'll try again to help Cloud in the battle scene. Hence, I highly doubt SE only save Aerith, Zack will be saved too.
I think both of them saved is the only happy ending choice beside Cloud moving on from past guilts
Nah, she gonna live and there are indeed timelines. You heard it here first.
And if you want OG, go play OG.
Fighting fate has nothing to do with FF7. Never has. Nomura yet again inserting his nonsense in where it’s not wanted.
As much as i like aerith and zack them coming back and living happily ever after with the rest of the party would just destroy everything ff7 stands for, this game has always been about tragedy and overcoming it, if you want a happy ending go play kingdom hearts bro