Mormonism and Ruby Franke
Вставка
- Опубліковано 7 вер 2024
- Three doctrines I see playing a key role:
1. The Law of Dominion (Genesis 1:26-28). God rules over men, men rule over women, and women rule over children.
2. Using Personal Revelation to Learn Objective Truth (Moroni 10:3-5) If you can use a "spiritual feeling" to know truth, you may end up committing horrible crimes if you are a narcissistic, mentally unwell person.
3. Violence is Justified if God Demands It (1 Nephi 4:18). The Bible and Book of Mormon are full of stories of people who were killed because they were evil. If a mom like Ruby Franke or Lori Vallow receive "personal revelation" that their kids are evil, than they obviously feel God permits them to act however they see fit.
These doctrines/beliefs can be used to justify a lot of terrible things, including child abuse. I can't imagine what those kids have faced and the long road they'll have to recovering from the terror inflicted by their mother, Ruby Franke.
#exmormon #exmo #mormon #lds #utah #rubyfranke
- where to find me -
TikTok: / alyssadgrenfell
Blog: www.howtoleave...
Email me: alyssadgrenfell@gmail.com
- support my channel -
Venmo: venmo.com/u/Al...
I think a huge contributing factor for child abuse in Mormon households is just the philosophy that everyone should be a parent.
I find it deeply problematic as well
Hence the aggression was aimed at the younger children. They arrived after Ruby had reached her limit of mothering and she was angry and resentful and blamed them for existing.
Not everyone should be a parent. Apparently
What do you mean by 'everyone should be a parent'? Are you talking about how kids are seen as adults so they aren't properly raised? Or that things like co-parenting are bad?
Move on fake Christian.
I can testify to this. We grew up Mormon. My mother was horribly abusive and manipulating to her children. Stepfather just watched and allowed her to do it.
Today, after talking to many people, I realize the church members knew. What did they do? Nothing. my mother is still this way even as all of us are grown. Very broken family. My brother took his own life at 29 years old. I almost took my life at one point.
Once I got out of the church, I was able to get my grounding find the love of my life and live a fulfilling life.
It’s interesting the people that go around thinking they’re trying to save you are the ones that need to be saved.
Truth will always stand. Blessings to all.
I'm very sorry to hear about your experiences. I hope you've been able to heal and lead a content life.
Yup. Very true. A lot of my missionaries have since gotten therapy and are doing better. The one that taught me the discussions has also left and has apologized for helping lead me down a path that was very abusive. I wish I could have those 20 years back.
Honestly everyone needs some saving from time to time, but the thing that we most need saved from is our own assumptions about what's good for people that aren't you.
And religion is the worst at letting people figure themselves out.
It came out later in court that Ruby was cutting off her kids’ breathing. I absolutely believe she would have become the next Lori Vallow if her son had not run away
Me too
Jesus, 😳 seriously? I didn't follow much of the case. I just heard the initial news of the boy running to the neighbours. My goodness, these people ARE evil
Ruby and Jodie were seeking to move to Arizona, to be more “private”. Those children would never had been seen again. The boy escaped just in time.
Very much agree!
@@huskytail Ruby kept a detailed journal of everything that she and Jodi did to the kids. It was released as part of the evidence that was public for the case. I don't recommend looking it up, but it is horrifying.
When I called CPS on my father as a teenager, he literally told them, "she is my property and I will do with her as I please" just before shipping me off to a relative.
I’m so sorry you had to suffer through that.
I'm so sorry 😢
I hope you had a better life there.
You can tell "she" is a formality to them, they really don't see other people as people.
😢🙏
Raised as a “typical” American child, I remember traveling through Europe for the first time as an adult, and it blew my mind to see most all parents actively communicating with their children. We have it so wrong.
Can you give some examples? I'm European so I'm fascinated by what you mean here! Just talking to your kids and asking them what they want to do that day, that kind of thing?
@@Rooshiiin my experience as someone in America who was raised by a danish dad and Hispanic mom, we always had very open communication and were reassured we could share things we did that may be “wrong” like drinking and ask for help if we feel uncomfortable somewhere. We were treated with respect. I notice with my friends that them and their parents are either like cordial roommates or have a jailer/prisoner type relationship. It teaches kids to keep secrets and not communicate anything. My friends are always shocked that I can talk with my parents about things like I’d talk to my friends because we genuinely value each other’s opinions even though I’m their child. Hope this helps!
I think America is too big to generalize. There’s a whole movement called gentle parenting that does all of this.
I think it can be summarized as: respecting your child as a human, with needs, wants, and opinions of their own. It doesn’t mean you agree with everything they say, but it does mean that you don’t treat what they say with less respect than you would give an adult. They are just trying to learn about their world. Your job, as the parent, is to teach them about their world, in an age-appropriate manner, and eventually expand that to THE world, outside of their own experience.
This just makes sense to me, but I’m sure it’s completely foreign to some of the parental peers in my community.
For starters, parental rights in Europe are ... not what they are perceived in the USA? And are less important than children's rights. Afaik 😅
I havent heard of this story til now, but my first question is how did a 3 year old get access to porn in the first place?!?! Let's punish the daughter for accidentally forgetting her lunch, a total kid (and adult) thing to do, but the 3 year old is 100% to blame for having access to porn, not whatever adult should have been responsible for them?! I just feel so bad for these kids, and you're right CPS probably won't do much because the religious aspect muddies the waters. Disgusting.
Shocked following Ruby Franke & her story. How are LD$ or others getting away with this? TURPIN family raised many flags. Steven.Powell raising psychopaths ie Josh.Powell. Not to mention Lori.Vallow, Chad.Daybell, Haight family, too many
Jodis definition of porn is insane, one of her "clients" said in an interview if he saw an ad with girls in bikini/underwear it was porn
In Ruby’s eyes anything is porn. The kid probably just saw two people who were kissing; that’s if it happened at all.
Considering your lifestyle, you should talk.
Right?! I was wondering the same thing. And a 3 year old probably would copy what he was seeing, that’s what 3 year olds do. There is no way he would understand what was going on in the videos he was watching.
The Church should be held accountable for their part in perpetrating abuse of not only the Franke children, but also every family who was traumatized by their "handpicked" therapist. I'm pretty certain the pot of tithing from the millions of members would be a great start to pay out civil lawsuits, or even a class action lawsuit.
My own mother was (is) like this, and so are many other LDS mothers. She sought out friendships with other "strict" parents like herself in part so she could triangulate those other adults in the church (who also happened to be the Bishop, YW and Sunday School teachers) to keep her children under tighter control. The church as an institution AND as a culture supports parents like this and in many ways holds them up as the ideal.
Also I think you're spot on that many of their subscribers are abusive parents themselves seeking validation.
If I remember right she took her channel down, but before that many of the comments were actually negative! Many of them said that what she was doing was wrong and abusive and that they had tried to call CPS on behalf of the kids but that their worries were essentially ignored, because until the son was found, the law hadn't really been broken, at least not publicly.
It was sad and disturbing to see how she acted towards her kids but I was at least glad to see that, if the comments were any indication, people weren't on board with it. There were also people who were saying they used to be subscribers but they didn't like what they saw as time went on, so I don't think it was only people who found her after she hit the news that were leaving feedback, but who knows.
I appreciate you bringing up Tara Westover and Educated here. I got a similar sense of her father when i read it, at about the same time as Ruby Franke's arrest. Many parents seem to think the key to raising kids is breaking them.
In mormonism Exactly! I paid a lot through LD$ to speak up. I am one of 21 kids FLD$/LD$/RLD$ back to LD$. Psychopaths raising psychopaths. I love kids so I had two. I love my creator so I got out of those cults & so did my kids~ Namaste
You hit the nail on the head. My adopted parents were abusive. Family recalls me being denied food and beaten. However, none of them reported it because they didn't want to upset the apple cart. When I accused my adopted parents of being abusive, my mom laughed and said that they were doing what they were to make me strong and a survivor.
Once they kicked me out they turned their abuse on my adopted siblings and my adopted sister is so scared of me that she refuses to attend family holidays if I am there because she was told that I would hurt her if we were together.
I was raised a Roman Catholic. This kind of abuse happens no matter what faith the person is.
Sadly that is true, but made worse when the faith community / cult members, protect the predators instead of children.
CPS in Utah is very different than all other states. They are Mormon, the cops are Mormon. Nothing gets done for that reason.
Even the FLDS in Colorado got away with things like child abuse. The local police protected that community.
As a victim of this kind of thing myself, I can say that it's not just Mormons who do this, however that Jodi Hildebrand is sponsored by the Mormon church is truly terrifying.
I think it should be said that corporal punishment during parenting is still accepted and "right" in many communities, not just Mormon communities. I was raised in a fairly traditional protestant Christian home. It was not a fundie, mega church, cult type congregation, but I was raised, because of the ways that my parents were raised and because of the teachings in the Bible twisted to justify that behavior, being told that if I went to the police they would laugh in my face because what was happening was just discipline, and when I did finally call the police bc my father was threatening to burn the house down with our entire family in it, he was able to manipulate and sweet talk the officers and get away with it. So the things they had said, that police would not believe me, came to pass, and I never tried again. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has been thru similar things either. Religion truly allows people to justify the worst actions against others.
you'd be naive to assume atheists don't conduct corporal punishment on their kids and have their own ways to justify it or don't even see the need for justification.
@@derstoffausdemderjoghurtisthe point isn’t about whether abusive atheist parents exist or not. The point is that if our parents, and their parents before them, were raised in an explicitly religious environment that was explicitly used to justify what we would now consider abusive parenting, they truly will believe that God says it is OK to harm their children, for the good of the child, the family, and their religious community.
“Spare the rod and spoil the child.”
“Women, submit to your husbands”
“Honor they father and mother”
These are all quotations from a RELIGIOUS text that are used by believers to justify their absolute authority over, and abuse of, their children or wives. In their mind, they are doing nothing wrong because these words come directly from God! God says their behavior is not only right, but that it is their religious duty to exercise absolute authority over their spouse or child. If the child sins, and is not suitably punished, the parent has also failed in their religious duty to God and the child.
I’m not saying any of this is right. I’m saying that within religious communities, when abuse occurs, these religious texts are often used to justify it as “not abuse but sincerely held religious belief,” and therefore above civil laws on the subject. It is also very, very difficult for the perpetrators to let go of those beliefs and remain part of their religious community, if they believe their faith in God requires them to do what they might otherwise recognize as reprehensible behavior.
@@KristenK78 If one interpret these saying that way and ignores all the sayings pointing into another direction, one is on the best way to damnation^^
If one truly believes and have faith in god then you wouldn't punish your kid or anybody, because you would believe that god will punish them already and by doing the punishing yourself you're pretending to be god, which is blasphemous.
In christianity a children should submit to their parents - correct; the wife should submit to her husband - correct; but you can't leave out that the husband has to submit to god!Full submission, the wife can just submit to her husband if he submits fully to god. If he trusts gods plan and has no doubt in him and his plan then the wife won't have any doubt in her husband and his plan, because he follows the plan of god. But by "taking matters into his own hands" the husband renounces god and becomes demonic. In that case the wife can only be faithfull by doubting and renouncing her husband.
I know you probably don't disagree with what I said, what I wanna say is that you can get stuck in and terribly misinterpret religion or you can understand the truth behind it and surpass and leave religion behind, to be with god.
And the same can happen with atheist parents. They either have no moral compass to begin with and see no need for justifying their acts or they justify them with their own trauma or by misinterpreting non-religious teachings.
One isn't better or worse than the other. You aren't better off as the child of a violent atheist. I could even argue you are better off as a child of a violent religious nut because in the doctrine you can see were your parent went wrong and blasphemed and you have a guide how to forgive them so you can finally cut loose from them and not be their slaves and victims long after they have already passed.
My state of missouri allows corporal punishment in school.
"Spanking" is child abuse. Studies have shown it is brain damaging.
Yes, even if her very young son was guilty of the things that Ruby claimed (viewing pornography at age 3 and shmexually abyoosing other kids) there is no excuse for what she and Jodi did to him as punishment. But the accusation made by Ruby against her own son is itself also a b u s e...particularly since it is almost certainly a complete lie. According to Jodi's niece (who suffered similar punishments from Jodi), it's straight out of Jodi's playbook to accuse people of sins that they did not actually commit, based on Jodi's claim that the person's secret sins were revealed to her by God. Once that kind of wild accusation is made, the person so accused is put in the awkward position of having to prove that they didn't, in secret, do the horrible things that God revealed to Jodi. It's absolutely crazy. And since the victims of this gaslighting are usually vulnerable people, including very young children, they simply submit. The children involved in this case appear to have been brain-forked into actually believing that they were evil and being punished for their own good. RF's little sister (EF) would not initially even accept medical help because she believed that it was wrong for her to be rescued.
The LDS church teaches that normal masturbation is a sex addiction, and any sexual outside of marriage is next to murder. I think the world needs to either realize Ruby was using a Jodi tactic of blaming the victim or is so scared of not making it to ever lasting life in the celestial kingdom. She plead guilty. End of story. RF should sue her for defamation.
Who is the person who this three year old was imitating? How did he get access to these pictures and/or video's ?
@@okkietrooy6841 You know how a toddler sometimes sticks their hands down their own pants, and a parents addresses it as a normal developmental milestone, from the teachings of Jodi, this act would next to murder. That was why all the husband’s had addictions and families were destroyed. She wouldn’t have had any issue saying a 3 year old doing something natural and normal had an addiction.
If a 3 year old is s a ing other kids it's because it's being done to him
The abuse these kids suffered behind closed doors was horrific.
The abuse they suffered on camera was easily an average Tuesday at my Mormon family's household; sometimes it was worse.
This is spot on. Of course not all Mormons are like these examples but for those who are on the edge, the Mormon teachings are enabling. In today’s World my Dad would have been in jail but we thought it was normal and it takes awhile to unscrew your mind from the lie that you’re being punished because you’re inherently bad, influenced by demons, verses just being a kid. Once I made the cognitive leap from “i deserve it” to “you’re a fear-based authoritarian”, it was all over and I left in my teens.
I think this is basically good and important analysis that needs to be talked about--and I really appreciate your channel!
One point of nuance I would like to add to the mix is that it is incredibly traumatizing for kids to be removed from their homes (no matter how abusive those homes are), and that abuse does routinely take place in foster placements as well. As such, child welfare practitioners have the unenviable task of evaluating whether the safety they can offer is likely to be more impactful than the trauma of the transition. I strongly recommend the "Laura-foster parent partner" youtube channel or the sidebar essay near the end of the book "Trauma Stewardship" if you'd like to learn more about this topic.
Definitely. Separating children from their parents is a remedy that should be reserved for clear cases and patterns. It's a judgment call, but a judgment that has to be made based on well-understood standards and patterns, never to be taken lightly or on a whim. Foster placements themselves can be a crap shoot. Although things that happened earlier in the Franke family, such as depriving Chad of a bed for more than half a year and refusing to let EF have lunch one day when she forgot to pack her own lunch, can now be seen, in hindsight, as harbingers of much worse things to come, it would have been difficult at the time for a reasonable case worker or investigator to make the case that such things were sufficient cause to have the children removed from the home.
Unfortunately, people often get caught up in pendulum swings of perception and reaction. When erring on the side of being quite generous in giving the benefit of the doubt to parents in one instance leads to a bad result later on, the impulse is often to swing to the opposite extreme of never giving parents the benefit of the doubt in any instance...which itself can easily lead to equally bad results.
I was abused and my worst nightmare was foster care, it sounded terrifying.
Laura is doing the Lord's work and I'm an atheist. Thanks for saying all this. 💜
Maybe spell out "Turpin" children OR Joshua Powell OR the Haight family just for starters! Strongly disagreed on kids being removed ! Patterns of abuse repeat especially mormon patterns. If only kids would have been removed from Chad Daybell or Lori Vallow jj and Tylee would still be alive.
She did acknowledge in writing the trauma of being taken away from parents when she said she had called CPS many times. Just mentioning in case you didn't see it. I understand your point about how CPS has to make a judgement call so maybe that's why the cases she called up did not result in children being taken away.
@@rubytuesday1316child welfare cases are not black and white. There are many many cases where the parents have children removed when truly, the issues could be fixed thru counseling and education. Not every case that ends up in the system is like the Turpins, or the Frankes, or the Daybells. Sometimes they are removed because the parent did something to screw up and the removal of children is an outsized reaction that will cause additional trauma on all sides. Are there cases where kids are better off away from their parents? YES! A lot of them! But it's not that easy to paint every parent and child who finds themselves in the foster care system with the same broad brushes.
The story of Nephi cutting off Laban's head would be almost understandable (by the standards of pseudo-scriptural fiction based on a biblical style of story-telling) if it had been in the context of combat or something where Nephi was obviously the good guy. But the actual context is that Nephi's goal was essentially to steal certain brass plates from Laban that, apparently, were rightfully in the possession of Laban. The only reason that Nephi thought that it was okay to do that was because his dad, Lehi, heard voices in his head telling him that God wanted Lehi to have those brass plates.
It gets worse. When Nephi went to steal the brass plates, he found Laban passed out due to drinking. Nephi then committed cold-blooded murder by decapitating the unconscious Laban because...you guessed it...Nephi thought he heard God in some fashion urging him to do that. Son of Sam versus Brother of Sam. Which one is worse.
Of course in the Book of Mormon, that tale is all told from the point of view of Nephi, so what he did was just assumed to be justified homicide and an example of righteousness. Let's go ask Laban what his side of the story is to get another perspective...oh wait! We can't. He's dead on account of Nephi having unalived him by way of decapitation. (Incidentally, Nephi also stole Laban's sword and breastplate because...you know...it's not like Laban would be needing them anymore. Nephi apparently wasn't embarrassed and seemed pretty proud of the way he successfully stole so much...because that's what God wanted...you know. ;o)
You forgot to mention Nephi and his brothers kidnapping Laban’s servant and giving him the option to live with them, or be killed on the spot.
@@zuzumontague be quiet liar.
@@WatchingwaitingG2D Did you actually read the Book of Mormon, word for word? No? Then sit your ass down and be quiet, boy.
@@WatchingwaitingG2D I think you forgot to take your medicine, boy.
@@zuzumontague Be careful who you call boy, little girl.
I’m from Russia, Vladivostok. I was a member of the Mormon church in my teens and it felt so totally not right when we discussed freedom of choice being the god’s gift to everyone and how to make kids go to the church right after
Are there a lot of Mormons in Russia?
@@muffininorbit yes there are quite a few, many cities have Mormon branches
@@elenako954 that’s so interesting. A lot of the Russians that have emigrated to the USA are religious minorities. So far I’ve met some Pentecostals, Baptists and a whole lot of Jewish Russians. But I haven’t met a Mormon Russian yet, I suppose they usually emigrate to Utah if they’re going to come to the USA.
@@muffininorbit correct) most of the Russian Mormons I know immigrated to Salt Lake City
I know a girl who had a mission in Russia
This evil woman is abusing the fact that her three year old was not “watching” but *EXPOSED* to watching pornography! Why was he watching pornography! He shouldn’t even know how to spell! It sounds like she wasn’t protecting him from that! And yet she talked about “MONITORING” the children’s EVERY move on their device 🤦🏻♀️
This specific case can be attributed to Mormon teachings/culture but it's so common across most faiths. These kinds of things really hit different after you have kids and you realize how messed up your childhood actually was. My generation is at least much more aware in trying to break it.
As an aside, mental illness has nothing to do with this level of abuse. Evil, yes. But evil doesn't equate to mental illness and doing so categorizes those with legitimate mental illness with horrific abusers. Keep on. Love your education about this
Mentally people ARE horrific abusers. Nit every mentally ill person is abusive, but every abusive person is mentally ill.
Mental illness can be a contributing factor to such abuse, especially if it’s untreated or poorly managed. It also depends on what type of mental illness. Look up the dark triad.
It's sad because mental illness can definitely be a contributing factor but when you start labeling something as 'evil' then you're just dead ending the conversation and not allowing any further discussion into why and how things came about.
I think both can be true. But we shouldn’t just assume anything. There really are demonic/unclean spirits and they can and do both harass people and enter them. But like I said, we shouldn’t just assume anything.
@@suzannemartin6817 No, there are not "demonic/unclean spirits" Peoples behavior is based off of 3 things, Their current situation and its social factors, The information they have available to them and how they where raised, and their own cognitive process.
I will be happy when Ruby and her "mentor" are in jail for good.
If only they would have separated Steven.Powell we wouldn't have seen psycho patterns repeat with Joshua.Powell. The Haight family murders, Megan.Huntsman, Lori.Vallow, Chad.Daybell, STOP the psycho patterns & abuse !
“We keep on being told that religion, whatever its imperfections, at least instills morality. On every side, there is conclusive evidence that the contrary is the case and that faith causes people to be more mean, more selfish, and perhaps above all, more stupid.”
― Christopher Hitchens
I agree with this 100%!
Sad af. Thank you for adding captions.
Jodi got her license suspended for disclosing confidential information about one of her patients with the church violating his privacy rights. Bc her alligence was to the church first, above the rights of her patients. Not bc she was pushing church doctrine in her therapy.
Of course she was pushing church doctrine in therapy. Her loyalty was to the church first.
@@sarahrobertson634She was indeed putting church doctrine first, but her disclosing a patient’s confidentiality was what got her license suspended.
@@queenmotherhane4374 Both are terrible.
That patient was a child whistleblower on the Mormon Boy Scout sexual abuse scandal. When he married as an adult one of the top Mormon Elders had the bishop send him & his wife to Jodi Hildebrand for marriage counseling supposedly, but the real reason was that elder wanted Jodi to alienate the wife from him & cause a divorce, which is what happened. The sickest part of it is that a supposed man of God would hold a grudge & want a man’s marriage destroyed because as a boy he stood up & stopped the camp pedo from molesting his brother. That is pure evil from the pits of hell. While that Mormon official has since died, that kind of power & corruption should be dealt with at a federal level by people who aren’t Mormon. If our government even pretended to do their jobs anymore, they’d have Congressional hearings on it open to the public.
Thank you for bringing this up! I was waiting for you to talk about it
There is NO excuse for child abuse.
my (mormon) parents are sooo much better than a lot of my friends. i don't doubt that they love me, and they don't abuse me or my siblings (anymore. my dad used to have fairly severe anger issues but has been working on them for years and its a lot better), but i've also gone my entire life with my parents telling me and my siblings that if god told them to kill us they would, and i honestly don't doubt that they would, even if they would be sad to do it.
along with this, in 8th grade a whole shit ton of stuff happened. my parents got a 'feeling' that i was getting a sex/porn addiction and was becoming a gay/trans prostitute and was going to join a unicorn sex cult (their words, not mine), and so they went through my stuff and went to my school to interview my teachers and friends (who i can admit were not the best, but i was comfortable with them at the time so i told them i was questioning), and when they ultimately found out i was going my a different name in one of my classes and i was questioning my sexuality/gender identity, i got sent to a mormon approved therapist (i am now a gay trans man and practicing pagan/theistic satanist, so a lot of good that did 😭), and its taken ***years*** for our relationship to start being prepared. my trust in my parents was extremely violated and the therapy in and of itself was damaging.
even when your parents are better than a ton of other mormon parents, mormonism is *still* fundamentally bad for parenting. i have developed anxiety, depresssion, various traumagenic disorders, and have **intense** religious trauma, but my parents don't think anything is wrong with their parenting.
I'm so sorry to hear of what you had to go through. My heart breaks for LGBT kids in isolated, controlling, conservative communities.
@@haelotny6523 There are very, very few LGBTQ kids on earth.
Your parents are absolute nut jobs, and they definitely don't love you. They don't love anyone, they're too crazy. Crazy people are not capable of love.
Please make a long form video on this topic!!! It's so fascinating
I knew several Mormon families several years ago and thankfully none of them were abusive.
I got an actual LDS advertisement at the end of this video…freaky
I would be really interested to hear more about this from your perspective. I grew up being abused in a high demand religion, and I think a lot of the mainstream coverage fails to understand the nuance of this case, and the abuse from a religious standpoint.
“borderline abusive” is an awfully polite way of saying “the religiously approved torture of children that is otherwise indisputably immoral”
If Mormons abhor porn, that might be one of the few areas where I agree with them. Look up Exodus Cry. It's appalling what the porn industry does to its performers (especially the women), as well as its effect on children.
That being said...if your 3-year-old saw porn, that's not on them. Poor kid. 💔
frankly even if they are older and do it on purpose, its not the concept of erotic content itself that is the problem, its how its produced
The pressure and doctrine of Mormon is so sad to me as a Christian. It physically hurts me when I see kids go through the harmful extents of religion that God never intended for, whether its from the Mormon church or even other Christians. It just makes me so sad how people can use religion as an excuse to treat people so badly.
your a link on the same chain you know
We can call it reinforcement, but in situations like this, what it really is is justification for treating a child as if they are property or as if they are less than a whole person who deserves respect. I’m also a former teacher, and I have dealt with CPS, too. And I’ve actually had them ignore a child whose father had beaten the ever-loving sh!+ out of him & basically told me that they had been aware of the situation because other people had reported it, too. The woman I spoke to sounded bored. This was in the late’90’s, and it still makes my blood boil.
* wow I wrote my comment before I finished the video. So I didn’t even think about the whole ownership thing in the biblical context.🙄🤬🤯
4:23: How can _blaming_ a 3yo for exposure to explicit content be reconciled with Mormon doctrine that children under the age of 9 are perfect?
I'm late to this, but heard about the 3 year old and it reminded me of JJ.
YOU ARE FREE OF SIN UNTIL AGE 8 UNDER YOUR OWN DOCTRINE...
The widespread view of children as property is why we don’t good federal laws against corporal punishment in the U.S. It’s heartbreaking.
These women perform " evil sermizing" within there own conscience and in turn it isn't the children its the parent who is evil and sermizing from there own dark distorted thoughts that creep into there conscience.
The children are innocent.
Great breakdown! Thank you for this insight. I really appreciate how much I learn in your videos.
Short story: I don't see the problem with making a 6 yo wait until she gets home to eat. Long story: Every six months or so, we would talk with each of our kids about what new freedom and responsibility they were ready for. We always paired a freedom with a responsibility to help them understand that growing up involved both.
When our eldest started first grade, her new freedom was to keep her light on to read for 30 minutes longer than her younger sisters while her new responsibility was to remember to take her lunch to school every day. She helped choose them both. Also, she had severe food allergies and was on a strict diet, so the lunches I packed for her were important.
The first time she forgot, her teacher ignored everything we had told her and let her eat the cafeteria hot lunch. She got a whole lot of the foods she was most allergic to which coincidentally were all the foods she liked the best. E.g., mac and cheese. We talked to her and the teacher and I thought we were all on the same page until I got a call from the teacher that Ms. "Forgetful" didn't have her lunch AGAIN.
I said that, no, I was not going to rush to the school to deliver it, because remembering her lunch was her responsibility. The teacher was appalled. But, as I patiently reminded her, school would be over in THREE HOURS and of course she could eat the lunch she forgot as soon as she got home. In the meantime, she could have an apple and nothing else. Funny thing how going a little hungry sharpened her memory from then on!
I grew up with an abusive Mormon father who later married a Mormon stepmom. Suffered so much abuse from them as an autistic woman I had to cut off contact. My stepmom got violent with me and my father as well. I need residential treatment to recover.
OMG! I am so relieved to finally hear someone call out this abusive culture that is found in so many christian churches! I too believe this is the cause of so man abuse cases!
I have been struggling with this exact thing... the abuse I STILL deal with from a very mormon mother even into my 40s. It's really difficult when these two toxic things are combined. I'm continuously told now that I'm out of the church that Satan is running my life or that he is working through me.
While im sure that being part of your upbringing can give phrases like that alot of weight just remember, Satans not real, none of this stuff is, and convincing you it is is exactly how they get their hooks in so that even years and years after you may have left theres still that pull
My grandparents were mormon, they raised there 4 kids in the church, only 1 of them stayed, and it wasn't my mom. But my grandparents were just awesome, they still had strong relationships with all of them, and I had a wonderful relationship with my grandparents until they passed, even when I came out as bisexual and was engaged to another female, didn't phase them, all my Nana said was I was her granddaughter and she loved me anyways. I'm sorry you had a different relationship with them after you left, and I know it's hard speaking up sometimes. I hope eventually you guys can rebuild, but I'll still support you
The more likely scenario is you had a good experience,she had a Normal one
@@vOID-fh1qtthat’s very true. I’m lucky I got to know my grandparents. Its not often families stay close when people leave the religion.
The Jordan and McKay videos on this are also really great
Holy cow people are serious about that. I was thought the phrase I brought you into this world I can take you out, was like an odd joke of parental frustration, the idea that anybody would actually do such a thing or think that they actually have that right is terrifying.
Spanking is still hitting no matter what anyone says. People do a lot of hateful and hurtful things under the guise of its for your own good! It is still wrong 😢! If people were to do it, to others they would be arrested for abuse! They say if you do it to kids it discipline! It is still disgusting 🤮! It is about controlling them! I have no respect for those who control others! Under the guise of obedience!
So true, thank you for covering it from this perspective. Throughout the case I kept thinking that her "ways" of parenting and therapy stemmed from a religious (Mormon) perspective.
What about the dad that unalived his whole family in Cedar City, Utah
Thank you for voicing what I've been saying since this story broke. Mormon culture and theology creates the opportunity to relate to children like this, and to abuse wives as well.
The isolation alone have I always seen as a risk in mormon family's but thank you for this new aspect.
I have to say my mom is Mormon and she said “I brought you into this world, I can take you out of it.” Once but that was when she was at her whits end. She does have some problematic parenting decisions but she was parents 4 kids and basically doing the same to her husband while working at Walmart so she was doing her best and is actually trying to better herself through therapy.
Oh my goodness so many similarities with mine! Dont forget, "I brought you in to this world you owe me" Im the oldest of 10 dysfunctional people. lol I love kids so I had 2 ! We are not mormons any more. Working on healing !
Fully agree on the Mormon aspects, however child protection doesn't just shrug their shoulders and walk away due to a lack of caring. What child protection is and is not able to do is very strictly and clearly spelled out in state statutes. To remove kids when they don't have hard evidence of child abuse as defined by the state they are in would just result in the kids being immediately returned to their parents by a judge. They have the same deep concerns as the rest of society but their hands are tied. If you want those state statutes to tighten up as to what meets the threshold for abuse and neglect, contact your legislators. It being legal to hit kids (spanking) makes it very difficult to prove physical abuse without specific evidence that it rises above and beyond how parents are legally allowed to harm their children. That's the real underlying issue.
I think she had her license taken away because of confidelity issues. She told the person's bishop things that the person told her. There are a few things that therapist must disclose to the law, but nothing they should ever disclose to a bishop.
Personally I think Poligamy is the cause of Mormon dissociation. Too many wives so the men don't connect & too many mothers so the mothers don't connect. The Religion itself really teaches grand delutions of being in control. Doesn't it?
You’re confusing a different group with this case. That’s the FLDS. They’re not affiliated with the LDS church.
Noone should squelch their feelings & be uncomfortable. We must speak out & get more people to speak out.
"this child is my property and I can do anything I want to her." That seems to summarize the Mormon attitude towards bringing up children. No human being should be regarded as anyone's property, and all human beings, at every age, even young children have the basic right to be protected from abuse.
It is waaay past time for a long hard look at how the very structure of LDS sets the scene perfectly for all these abuse cases. Instead of calling out her clearly delusional thinking Vallow’s church group didn’t see her very obvious mental health issues and voices as a problem, it as the spirit and the LoRt!
Amen! We aren't even done with LoriVallow & Chad.Daybell. Not to mention MeganHuntsman or the Haight family murders. Humanoids like stevenPowell raising JoshPowell. Turpin Family still struggling. Just too many for LD$ cults to get a dig
Speaking about Mormon revelation, have you read "Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith" by Jon Krakauer?
I was raised in an evangelical denomination and it was very similar. My mother believes that she will be held responsible for if we are believers or not in Heaven
Anyone can use any belief system to justify their action, even abusive actions. God does not say that people are belongings. He does say that the husband is the head of the marriage and the family *like Christ is the head of the church* ie they should be loving them sacrificially, not using them however they want. By loving sacrificially I mean loving the other person(s) in a way that is best for them, even if it means sometimes going without something yourself.
thank you so much for this! nobody is talking about how this is directly related to the issues in LDS. They put Kevin Franke in the sex addiction classes and made him feel horrible for wanting sex with his wife. It is very clear that they think they were doing the right thing and they think they were helping get demons out of them. So sad!
i'm sorry, a *3yo* had access to *what*?????
One major, major thing I have to disagree with you about: porn addiction is very, very real. Sometimes it can be life-ruining. That’s all, that’s the one thing I have to comment on.
i came here to say this!
Why was a three year old exposed to porn at all? He's a baby.
The fact is Ruby and Kevin assigned chores and tasks to the children that were extremely age inappropriate. Also her kids were not allowed to make ANY mistakes. Perfection is subjective but it must be met by each child every minute of every day. So a child who is learning to navigate the world as their emotional brain and physical brain/body is developing, are not allowed ANY mistakes, deviations, or differences. And because the perfection expectation is subjective for each parent, there is NO WAY a child can ever know what to do or not to do. And even if they could know, there is no way their young bodies and brains could meet up with these outrageous requirements set by Ruby & Kevin and then Jodi. 🤬🤬
I have a question, do you still live in Utah or another mormon heavy state, like Idaho? if so, how does being an exmoron affect your interactions with the people of that state? if you don't, why did you leave and why would you not want to go back? love the channel and the videos
A big issue is the empowerment of heads of households and self proclaimed prophets who are above others. That’s addictive to narcissists. It’s a sure recipe for abuse.
More of this! I think your insight is valuable to this discussion.
Important!! Your points reveal HOW?? WHY?? Did these adults act so abusively?? What did the sbusers think permitted them to act this way??
God. That's what she made clear
Just to clarify, the Bible verse Gen. 1:26 is referring to man as a kind ruling over the earth, this includes man and women. Though the mormon church may take that out of context.
Also, Ephesians 5:25 says, "Husbands, love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for it"
Maybe you could not classify all of us as. I'm a Mormon and what they did to these children evil. And frankly many many bishops are way out of their league and try to deal with things they have no business. I still attend church, however I don't pay much attention to what local leadership says. And sometimes I think some of the stuff that comes out of SLC is way off, Christ teachings. God gave me a brain, so I try to use it.
I always hated going to church and fought it. My mother got very abusive on several occasions in an effort to ensure compliance at any cost. I'm not excusing her behavior (I barely speak to her anymore), but I will say that my grandmother (her mother) is the strictest of strict Mormons. My mom was raised with the fear of God leading her to believe that her own salvation relied on ensuring that her children were raised as good, upstanding Mormons. I can believe that many parents have this mindset where they feel it is not only their duty, but their spiritual obligation to raise their kids a certain way or face eternal consequences themselves. When their kids inevitably end up either exemplifying their own personal interpretation of religion that doesn't align with what the parents believe, or if they outright reject it, that fear causes them to do horrible things that are then justified because of religion. I was endlessly vilified growing up because I hated church. Unfortunately, that just resulted in being endlessly vilified as being incompetent as an adult after my mom left the church, but didn't leave the mindset that she has to "save" us all behind.
When I was a teenager in Utah, I had a huge crush on a man with the last name of Franke. They lived in Bountiful. I won't mention his first name. I do wonder if they are related
In my opinion the Ruby Frankes, Jodi Hildebrandts & Lori Vallows of the world are the exceptions. The most extreme of the extreme. All religions have them. I am not LDS myself but my husband of 13+ years was raised in the church (non-active as an adult). Both he & I have immediate as well as many extended family members who are active Mormons. And we both have some lifelong friends in the church as well. In my personal experience the LDS parents that I have witnessed in action up close on a regular basis & over many years are overall kind, gentle, loving & patient. Yes, they have rules & structure that they & their kids adhere to but thankfully I have witnessed nothing resembling abuse.
I was raised in complete dysfunction & exposed to every type of abuse in the book. Yes, I was allowed so many more freedoms & experiences than the LDS kids I am referring to but I always longed for the kind of love, attention & structure that they have but I never did. It has taken me a lifetime & will take a lifetime more to heal from my childhood trauma & the residual effects of it into my adult life. Many more of the children that I personally know (relatives or children of friends) that stem from non-Mormon homes have serious issues than do the children I know from Mormon homes. The differences are too drastic to go unnoticed.
I guess the whole point of my rambling is to say that I really hate to see the evil women previously mentioned cast such a negative light over all of the many Mormon parents who are actually such wonderful & loving parents doing their best for their children. No parent or family or upbringing or religion is perfect but because the worst of the worst are the ones making the news many people think that all Mormon parents (mothers in particular) are crazy extreme psychos. As I am sure you personally know, that just isn't the case. I was surprised you didn't point this caveat out yourself in the video as I know that you've mentioned that many people you care about very much are still members. I do believe, however, that religion itself can sometimes be used to manipulate & control people. That in & of itself depending on the situation can sometimes end up resulting is a form of abuse but not necessarily as extreme or blatant as the Ruby Franke situation.
(Sorry for the novel of a post. I just wanted to clarify where I personally was coming from. I cringe by proxy everytime another kooky & extreme Mormon mom shows up on the news b/c I know it will unfairly reflect negatively on the Mormon mothers that I know & care for. 🙂)
I think Ruby Franke is a sadist and enjoyed the punishing her children. I think Jodi is a closeted lesbian and she and Ruby were more than just friends. I have no problem with them being lesbian. my problem is the fact that they try to shame people who are gay and make people feel that God does not love them. As far as Ruby’s 3 year old son on the internet, he would have to know to search for it, what terms to use, and how to spell it. I call BS. It’s beyond evil to accuse an innocent person of SA, but to accuse a 3 year old? If the 3 year old touched another child inappropriately, it was the parents’ responsibility to get him help. That’s what loving, caring, parents do. I am also not buying what her hubby is selling. He was married to her for years and had no problem with the way the children were being raised in “truth”. I hope the court sees through his charade and he is not allowed unsupervised access to those children. IMHO.
Thank you for pointing out the Mormon problem 😊
Control takes many forms. I have gone to great lengths to ensure my kids would not grow up the way I did. Far more joy to see my own develop into independent and caring individuals that are free to make their own discoveries and choices.
I don’t think this is unique to Mormonism though. Most religions use religious texts, personal revelation, and religious principles to justify their treatment of children.
I knew Tara in her BYU days. She's incredible and a bad ass.
I’d like to draw a VERY hard line between what Mormons teach and what the Bible teaches. The Bible does NOT teach that husbands own their wives or children or that they should have dominion over them. That is false. The husband is to be the head and yet husbands and wives are to submit one to another as well. Children are to obey their parents, but they are NOT owned by them. I do appreciate Alysa’s videos but because she was raised Mormon and it seems has just abandoned all faiths, she is not qualified to speak on the Bible or Christian teaching, only the Mormon view of it.
The only thing that surprises me about Ruby irt her Mormonism is the fact that she was willing to take power over her husband and even go as far as to divorce him. Especially considering how patriarchal Mormonism is and how taboo divorce is.
I checked the heights of the children and they are all really short compared to the parents. I am sure the parents starved their kids and this stopped their growth. This is so wrong.
Noticed the hair on the eldest boy in the Courtroom next t his bald dad and the son's hair was extremely unhealthy. These kids overall health must b so badly affected
Wow. Excellent analysis.
Makes sense to me. Religion is the cause of much pain and suffering in society. the more traditional the religion the more pain and suffering they impose on their children.
That makes so much sense doesn’t excuse it, but it makes it more understandable
This is not borderline abuse, starvation and malnutrition are actual abuse.
I understand your quest for truth. I love your videos exposing the lies of Mormonism. Go further in your search, but know Truth without God doesn't make sense.
I was born and raise in SLC but my immediate family was not LDS. and, for career reasons, have spent most of my adult life in the South. My observation has been that physical punishment/abuse of children is more frequent in the South than it is among the Mormans of UT. I have plenty of issues with the LDS church I assure you but have never seen reason to believe that Mormonism has an undue propensity towards child abuse compared with other Christian religions.
Love your channel and your honesty and vulnerability in sharing your journey.
However, I’m an attorney and child custody hearings in Utah are closed. The allegations Ruby made about her child should never have been shared publicly, and were done so illegally.
Please delete and repost this video without that section, there’s a reason it’s illegal to share those proceedings and allegations made about juveniles.
Thank you and I hope you understand where I’m coming from.
You need to just shut it. This needs to be discussed.
@@Onlyoneway.Mmm...quite nasty. Let the public shame roll on.
I think it’s time for somebody to take a good look at the LDS church. It is a business not a church.
And a fake like yourself who doesn't believe in God knows? Hypocrite.
Even after all this time for me, i am still shocked that the mormon cult keeps skating right by.
I'm glad you are pointing this out. I don't spank my kid, and my parents don't get it. I grew up Methodist, but they also pointed at the Bible to back their parenting decisions.
I'm glad my parents didn't know Mormon therapists existed...
This is outright child abuse. No one is above the law. Cults masking as religion are among the worst offenders who get away with crimes like this. It's a tragedy 😢
The kid that split had INJURIES !! He was ll jacked up.
Mormonism was definitely also a huge part of the whole Chad / Lori Daybell fiasco.
God, in the book of Deuteronomy , was repetitive with his people, on account of how forgetful they could be. God was patient with them. So, how do abusive parents live with themselves in comparison. Self righteousness allows folk to lord over other's.