I read up about Loraine Williams and TSR a few months back, in how it, through no intention of hers, lead to the glorious, beautiful mess that was Spelljammer. I'm looking forward to your take on her... questionable business decisions during her reign over the company XD
So one of the reasons why this lady's bad is because she's a devout Christian okay respect my sexuality but not anyone's religion is in full effect with that also one of the reasons that satanic Panic was going on because they were using actual demons names in the freaking book imagine being in Harry Potter's World playing a game using the guy who shall not be named as some type of game understandably those people would be upset too
@@malcolmgreene8830 "Actual demon names". You mean the names of "actual demons". In Harry Potter, Voldemort wasn't a character from folklore, he was an actual person and war criminal. If D&D start printing books about the "Grand Mage Hitler", I'll be all for banning it, but using "Mephistopheles" is no more aggregious than using Surtr, Zeus, or any other aspect of folklore, like Faeries and monsters of myth. But I'm sure you don't mind them using those, after all "Respect my religion, but fuck other people's".
It's weird to study DnD history, and see how so much of the history of this very successful (currently) game is steeped in tragedy, deception, and almost active sabotage. It's a real shock this game survived two editions, much less 5+.
It's just that the creators wheren't knowledgable in businesses, so the ones that knew took advantage It's always the same, whenever there's money to be made, you can expect some greedy asshole to be trying to milk the source for as much money as possible, nowadays it's done a lot with video games and movies Just mass produce using an IP until it's dead, completely disregarding the fans as nothing more than ATMs I'm glad D&D survived that tho, mostly due to the community, altho DnD Beyond's shitty copyright system that doesn't allow you to use people's homebrew unless you pay is getting dangerously close to greedy asshole territory again Also being forced to buy the books again if you want to use any of the content, since it's against the rules to add pre-existing stuff as homebrew if it's a copy from official content
@@rompevuevitos222 My advice to you, stop using D&D Beyond so much! I know a lot of folks who get their start in D&D with that, and it's definitely a helpful tool especially for new players, RPGs like D&D (And many other good ones with less greedy business practices!) are meant to be played among friends, with your minds. When systems like that become so baked in that people forget it's only an option, it can make it easy for the corporations that make that stuff to do some crummy shite. D&D Beyond is one little tool, but you can run the entire game without a shred of internet, with just a few pieces of paper, dice, and some pencils. Don't let yourself get caught up on assuming you're dependent on some company to give you permission to have fun! :)
Dave Arneson walking away was the worst thing to happen to early DND. His version of the game is essentially the template from which all modem DND is cut.
@@lemonicity4834 Yes, very much so. It seems to be damn near impossible to watch or get a hold of now, but there was a documentary made a few years ago titled Secrets of Blackmoor that goes into the creation of D&D far more than Davvy can in these videos.
Great video! Yeah I was starting to play D&D when the Satanic Panic was in full swing. My mother threw a holy fit, no pun intended, when she found my Dungeons & Dragons books. Even today as a Christian, I love playing D&D. In fact, we have a church group that plays.
The "founded in our buddy's garage" stuff is all true more or less. But when you make the jump from staple bound xerox pamphlets to mass produced printed and spine bound books you quickly realize your company needs a business manager and someone with access to deep pockets to get your product out of your garage and into customers' hands. The tragedy of TSR is the business types Gygax and company hired screwed them over and handed control of the company over to a spiteful witch who wanted nothing more than to destroy the game and the hobby from the inside. Leaving the original TSR as little more than a dumpster fire when WotC eventually came in and bought out everything.
They were two wargaming clubs, one in Twin Cities, Min and one in Lake Geneva, Wis. If you look at the first employees, the ones who cranked out all the early stuff, they were mostly college kids.
It's weird, being a 5e DM from Salem Wisconsin, knowing now that the game which i was introduced to second hand through Rusty quill gaming started so close to home. Rusty quill is based in London England! It all feels like i rolled a 100, and got into the habit via a convoluted mess of happenstance. Not to mention, when i was a kid, i played games of pretend with the son of a Bible thumping Karen who used corporal punishment to keep her kids in line. I feel like I'm on the "it's a small world"ride at Disney.
Um yeah. I was born in 86 and got involved in D&D because of Bauldur’s Gate. I never played 2nd edition but I loved 3.5, but man I had to hide my interests at school and around others who didn’t share the same hobbies. It was seen as childish, shameful and pretty much put a giant target on your head to be made fun of or ridiculed. I also was a big Star Wars and comic fan at the time too, but god forbid you showed that to anyone. If I had been born now I feel like I’d just be a regular kid? Kinda makes me a bit bitter honestly haha
@@kozmo7 born 97. growing up being a nerd didn’t seem as accepted as it is now so to some extent I understand u. Only got into D&D in 2018 and starting to play more again but man I wish I experienced being a nerd in the 80s
@@Eggsecuter I mean I can only speak for the early 90ies and on but it honestly sucked if I ever left my corner of the world. The internet was great since it was so niche and you’d recognize people online because you’d frequent the same places. Now it feels so overcrowded and there’s a billion people all commenting and all involved. It’s great it became accepted but it feels different for sure. But the moment you get offline and go into the real world back then, it’s an entire world that doesn’t accept you or looks down on you for being anything other than what at the time was seen as “normal”. It was a double edged sword because the nerd side of things was some of the best memories of my life, especially online. But everything else was just abuse, unfortunately. I’m so glad future nerds don’t nearly have the barriers and bullying as it once was.
@no or maybe yes Yep totally agree. I’m so glad it’s become waaaaaay more culturally acceptable because it should’ve never been seen as anything but normal.
I knew some of this because my parents, also Christians, had weekly to monthly game sessions with their friends, and introduced me to roleplaying and AD&D in the late 70s. However, I also learned somethings I didn't know previously. Thank you, I would enjoy seeing more.
I feel that Tim Kask should have been mentioned, he was an editor that joined into TSR when AD&D was being started that greatly influenced its acceptance. But I can see why you didn't mention him, he didn't have a deep connection with the logistics of the company in how you covered it. Are you going to touch into Dragon Magazine?
You should definitely make more videos like this... as someone who started playing when 5e was already out and popular, and also someone who studied and loves History, I was always curious about the actual history of this awesome game I some how spent 20 years not playing.
The real history of DND The barbarian hits stuff The bard has sex with stuff The cleric heals stuff and violates the Geneva convention The druid has sex with trees The fighter hits stuff more carefully The monk hits stuff more naked The paladin hits stuff with the power of God The rogue steals stuff and kills absolutely every fucking thing with life The sorcerer kills stuff on accident and also "empowered spell burning hands" The warlock kills stuff for a patron The wizard is a know it all who literally knows it all if it's a divination wizard
please continue, your sexy manly man voice gives me the good chemicals also i'd love to hear the rest of the story also i love JoCat, please give him more head pets
I doubt this comment will get noticed, but could also a historical dive into all the classes? I realize thats a hefty task, but there are so many neat tid-bits of info about the evolution of D&D. Like why we us d6s for rolling for stats, why rogues have proficiency in longswords, why fireball/lightning bolt are so OP. There are reasons for all these things that I didn't find out until years after I have gotten into the franchise.
"the latter of which is the greatest shit in the world" -Hell yeah! grew up watching the old animated series as a kid. considering a game loosely based on that premise.
I actually love the early dnd art, everyone takes smack on it but I think it’s awesome. It feels classic, timeless, and like the fantasy vision of those early players and fans. The new art is really good, of course a successful big company is gonna pay for good professional looking art, but that old stuff is something special.
Interesting video! There were even some things I didn't know. I like how you touched on Gygax's sexism without focusing too much on it, since it's definitely relevant but not really the focus for topics like this.
*Decent video .* *I have a video of me showing off the white box Dungeons & Dragons ( zero edition ) .* *Note Gary's rumored views on women where based on known science at the time and was him trying to figure out some questions .*
This is a great video! You definitely did a lot of research and presented it "Davvy style" to make it enjoyable and interesting. I've been playing D&D for a long time, even when it wasn't cool lol. There's a lot I didn't know even though I've heard all the rumors over the decades. Thanks for doing this and, I'm looking forward to more like it! I will definitely share this.
It seems weird that you didn't mention basic dnd at all. It would seem from the video that odnd just kept going after adnd was released, where really the whole thing was split into 2 new branches.
It's weird to think how even just a few years ago DnD was so different. I re-watched Gravity Falls not too long ago - which had a roleplaying episode - and also watched the "oh so controversial" DnD episode of Community and thought "Wow, they both show Dungeons and Dragons and roleplaying as this really nerdy thing and only nerds play." only to quickly realize that 5e hasn't even came out yet! When the hobby became more accessible than ever in its history. And I played 4e and Pathfinder 1e (the better game), I know where this social stigma comes from in those shows. Anyway, I like this quick history overview series, and await part 2.
Neat video, and I'm really excited for part 2. I did have to pause and ponder the "unsavory views on women" comment slipped in there and never spoke of again, though.
Hey who has not wanted to fight an army or orcs, goblins, and a demon with only a dwarf & human fighter, 4 halfling rogues, an elven & human ranger, and 1 human wizard! :D
If you liked this video, please consider sharing it around. I can only justify committing to a new type of video if it does well analytically.
I read up about Loraine Williams and TSR a few months back, in how it, through no intention of hers, lead to the glorious, beautiful mess that was Spelljammer. I'm looking forward to your take on her... questionable business decisions during her reign over the company XD
@Michael Johnson I can't tell if you're joking... or if you are just a joke...
Will be sharing this with my D&D group!
So one of the reasons why this lady's bad is because she's a devout Christian okay respect my sexuality but not anyone's religion is in full effect with that also one of the reasons that satanic Panic was going on because they were using actual demons names in the freaking book imagine being in Harry Potter's World playing a game using the guy who shall not be named as some type of game understandably those people would be upset too
@@malcolmgreene8830 "Actual demon names". You mean the names of "actual demons". In Harry Potter, Voldemort wasn't a character from folklore, he was an actual person and war criminal. If D&D start printing books about the "Grand Mage Hitler", I'll be all for banning it, but using "Mephistopheles" is no more aggregious than using Surtr, Zeus, or any other aspect of folklore, like Faeries and monsters of myth. But I'm sure you don't mind them using those, after all "Respect my religion, but fuck other people's".
It's weird to study DnD history, and see how so much of the history of this very successful (currently) game is steeped in tragedy, deception, and almost active sabotage. It's a real shock this game survived two editions, much less 5+.
If you squint your eyes and look very very closely, this history is like something out of a DnD story of an ancient kingdom
It's just that the creators wheren't knowledgable in businesses, so the ones that knew took advantage
It's always the same, whenever there's money to be made, you can expect some greedy asshole to be trying to milk the source for as much money as possible, nowadays it's done a lot with video games and movies
Just mass produce using an IP until it's dead, completely disregarding the fans as nothing more than ATMs
I'm glad D&D survived that tho, mostly due to the community, altho DnD Beyond's shitty copyright system that doesn't allow you to use people's homebrew unless you pay is getting dangerously close to greedy asshole territory again
Also being forced to buy the books again if you want to use any of the content, since it's against the rules to add pre-existing stuff as homebrew if it's a copy from official content
@@rompevuevitos222 My advice to you, stop using D&D Beyond so much! I know a lot of folks who get their start in D&D with that, and it's definitely a helpful tool especially for new players, RPGs like D&D (And many other good ones with less greedy business practices!) are meant to be played among friends, with your minds. When systems like that become so baked in that people forget it's only an option, it can make it easy for the corporations that make that stuff to do some crummy shite. D&D Beyond is one little tool, but you can run the entire game without a shred of internet, with just a few pieces of paper, dice, and some pencils. Don't let yourself get caught up on assuming you're dependent on some company to give you permission to have fun! :)
Please keep making these. They’re very interesting and I’d love to hear the complete story
Wow D&D must be big at Gencon.
Dave Arneson walking away was the worst thing to happen to early DND. His version of the game is essentially the template from which all modem DND is cut.
that's really interesting. Was his vision more on the storytelling/roleplay side?
@@lemonicity4834 Yes, very much so. It seems to be damn near impossible to watch or get a hold of now, but there was a documentary made a few years ago titled Secrets of Blackmoor that goes into the creation of D&D far more than Davvy can in these videos.
well, at least Dave Arneson (my grandpa btw) helped make one of the best boardgame's in history
I support uncovering a 19th century shipwreck. I don't think there's many things more on brand with Dungeons&Dragons.
The fact that she hated gamers alone is enough to make me want to know how she landed the general manager job in the first place.
Failing upwards
@no or maybe yes I don't think that's a purely American tendency.
@no or maybe yes If that were the case, none of the British generals would've retained their post-Revolution careers.
If this series will continue, I would like to see Davvy take on the satanic panic
TL;DR any mention of magic is Satan.
Great video!
Yeah I was starting to play D&D when the Satanic Panic was in full swing. My mother threw a holy fit, no pun intended, when she found my Dungeons & Dragons books.
Even today as a Christian, I love playing D&D. In fact, we have a church group that plays.
So much for the "organic-growth from a bunch of college buddies" urban legend.
Is that a thing? This vid is roughly how I always heard the origin of DnD
That must be a new one -- I've never heard of anything beyond what Davvy outlined here.
The "founded in our buddy's garage" stuff is all true more or less. But when you make the jump from staple bound xerox pamphlets to mass produced printed and spine bound books you quickly realize your company needs a business manager and someone with access to deep pockets to get your product out of your garage and into customers' hands. The tragedy of TSR is the business types Gygax and company hired screwed them over and handed control of the company over to a spiteful witch who wanted nothing more than to destroy the game and the hobby from the inside. Leaving the original TSR as little more than a dumpster fire when WotC eventually came in and bought out everything.
They were two wargaming clubs, one in Twin Cities, Min and one in Lake Geneva, Wis. If you look at the first employees, the ones who cranked out all the early stuff, they were mostly college kids.
@@CitanulsPumpkin They literally worked out of Gary's basement for years and had their products shipped to and from one of the other owner's garage.
It's weird, being a 5e DM from Salem Wisconsin, knowing now that the game which i was introduced to second hand through Rusty quill gaming started so close to home. Rusty quill is based in London England! It all feels like i rolled a 100, and got into the habit via a convoluted mess of happenstance.
Not to mention, when i was a kid, i played games of pretend with the son of a Bible thumping Karen who used corporal punishment to keep her kids in line. I feel like I'm on the "it's a small world"ride at Disney.
this reminded me how totally different the "nerd ecosystem" was in the 80s and 90s.....
Um yeah. I was born in 86 and got involved in D&D because of Bauldur’s Gate. I never played 2nd edition but I loved 3.5, but man I had to hide my interests at school and around others who didn’t share the same hobbies.
It was seen as childish, shameful and pretty much put a giant target on your head to be made fun of or ridiculed. I also was a big Star Wars and comic fan at the time too, but god forbid you showed that to anyone.
If I had been born now I feel like I’d just be a regular kid? Kinda makes me a bit bitter honestly haha
@@kozmo7 born 97. growing up being a nerd didn’t seem as accepted as it is now so to some extent I understand u. Only got into D&D in 2018 and starting to play more again but man I wish I experienced being a nerd in the 80s
@@Eggsecuter
I mean I can only speak for the early 90ies and on but it honestly sucked if I ever left my corner of the world. The internet was great since it was so niche and you’d recognize people online because you’d frequent the same places.
Now it feels so overcrowded and there’s a billion people all commenting and all involved. It’s great it became accepted but it feels different for sure.
But the moment you get offline and go into the real world back then, it’s an entire world that doesn’t accept you or looks down on you for being anything other than what at the time was seen as “normal”.
It was a double edged sword because the nerd side of things was some of the best memories of my life, especially online.
But everything else was just abuse, unfortunately.
I’m so glad future nerds don’t nearly have the barriers and bullying as it once was.
@no or maybe yes
Yep totally agree. I’m so glad it’s become waaaaaay more culturally acceptable because it should’ve never been seen as anything but normal.
Yeah, we were ridiculed back then. Dunno if it was better or worse than it is now, with everyone trying to profit off of nerd culture
I rolled dice with Gygax in 1981 in Lake Geneva. Epic vid.
I knew some of this because my parents, also Christians, had weekly to monthly game sessions with their friends, and introduced me to roleplaying and AD&D in the late 70s.
However, I also learned somethings I didn't know previously.
Thank you, I would enjoy seeing more.
I feel that Tim Kask should have been mentioned, he was an editor that joined into TSR when AD&D was being started that greatly influenced its acceptance. But I can see why you didn't mention him, he didn't have a deep connection with the logistics of the company in how you covered it. Are you going to touch into Dragon Magazine?
Branch out my guy, your inspiration and talent shows. If you like making it, we'll like watching it.
You should definitely make more videos like this... as someone who started playing when 5e was already out and popular, and also someone who studied and loves History, I was always curious about the actual history of this awesome game I some how spent 20 years not playing.
Do love to see the Evolution of how the classes changed over the editions
The History of D&D, Part I: OD&D 1974 Matthew Colville: ua-cam.com/video/nnjA4D0Z4pM/v-deo.html
The real history of DND
The barbarian hits stuff
The bard has sex with stuff
The cleric heals stuff and violates the Geneva convention
The druid has sex with trees
The fighter hits stuff more carefully
The monk hits stuff more naked
The paladin hits stuff with the power of God
The rogue steals stuff and kills absolutely every fucking thing with life
The sorcerer kills stuff on accident and also "empowered spell burning hands"
The warlock kills stuff for a patron
The wizard is a know it all who literally knows it all if it's a divination wizard
"Geneva suggestions" there fixed it for you
@@alex-uw4mm Geneva to do list 😎
@no or maybe yes lmao I guess violating basic rights of life then
Oh Davinis of Chap, this was a beautiful ode
This is like a bard telling a story. It's accurate on the important bits. Thank you for making this.
please continue, your sexy manly man voice gives me the good chemicals
also i'd love to hear the rest of the story
also i love JoCat, please give him more head pets
Gygax and his story seems reminiscent of the current situation Star Wars is in.
7:25 "undoubtably"? Undoubtedly? Indubitably? Hmmm
Aww dude! This was great, Davvy! +1 to more historical content!
I doubt this comment will get noticed, but could also a historical dive into all the classes? I realize thats a hefty task, but there are so many neat tid-bits of info about the evolution of D&D. Like why we us d6s for rolling for stats, why rogues have proficiency in longswords, why fireball/lightning bolt are so OP. There are reasons for all these things that I didn't find out until years after I have gotten into the franchise.
Was not expecting hearing jo suddenly but it’s appreciated
"the latter of which is the greatest shit in the world" -Hell yeah! grew up watching the old animated series as a kid. considering a game loosely based on that premise.
I loved this! So exciting to see the unique Davvy humor on other topics.
Thanks for promoting the history for new generations, and getting it right (as far as I can see).
I actually love the early dnd art, everyone takes smack on it but I think it’s awesome. It feels classic, timeless, and like the fantasy vision of those early players and fans. The new art is really good, of course a successful big company is gonna pay for good professional looking art, but that old stuff is something special.
Thank you for letting me know that it was Jo-Cat who was the employee.
Interesting video! There were even some things I didn't know.
I like how you touched on Gygax's sexism without focusing too much on it, since it's definitely relevant but not really the focus for topics like this.
@Michael Johnson I'm a little confused here. Are you annoyed that this video was a Part 1?
Definitely make this a part of your channel! You tell these stories in a really intriguing way :)
Came for DND history, stayed for the totally unexpected Life is Strange reference at 3.40
My two favourite games in one place!
This was a nice change, Thanks. This is now my favourite video on your channel.
This was an amazing video! Taught me a lot about the beginnings of one of my all time favorite games, well edited, amazingly crafted!
That would be pretty sick if it turns into a series...
Oh this won't be controversial at all haha
Nope. I about as OG as OG can get and I can confirm everything except the court case happened as I got from news sources.
Im into these history vids. Cant wait to hear more and where else the channel goes ;)
This is very interesting and I would like to see more stuff like this
*Hears several wisconsin names* "Woop der boy yah all owe us fer dese funny die yah Yoopers!"
This is awesome. Please continue the series.
Oh my God that was so cool And every thought I’d say this but I’m actually more interested in this then anything else please keep going
Thank you for the video.
Lorraine Williams was to TSR and dungeons & dragons what Kathleen Kennedy is to lucasfilm and Star wars
This was way more entertaining than I expected
*Decent video .*
*I have a video of me showing off the white box Dungeons & Dragons ( zero edition ) .*
*Note Gary's rumored views on women where based on known science at the time and was him trying to figure out some questions .*
Comment for the algorithm, because I want you to make more like this (;
That was a really fun thing you made.
I love this! I would enjoy more "history of xyz" thanks!
learned about this man from Jo, and the first video I see from him features Jo
great video!! big fan of your work
Excited for a possible part 2!
He went by his middle name publicly, its Gary, its not Earnest.
I love anything I'm passionate about. I would love some more history of Dungeon and Dragon's.
I hope this does well. I would love to hear more breakdowns of historical events.
super interesting stuff, i had no idea that there where two different versions running at the same time.
At the end: hey it’s a theory a film theory
Looking forward to seeing it.
I sincerely hope this does well it was very interesting to listen to
Fascinating story there. Only came into d&d at 5e, so didn't know the story. Looking forward to part 2
You have to remember Gary wasn’t an old man when he made D&D
Great video Davvy!!
DAMMIT I LOVE YOU DAVVY AND I DONT CARE WHO KNOWS
Please algorithm make this video go big
This is a great video! You definitely did a lot of research and presented it "Davvy style" to make it enjoyable and interesting. I've been playing D&D for a long time, even when it wasn't cool lol. There's a lot I didn't know even though I've heard all the rumors over the decades. Thanks for doing this and, I'm looking forward to more like it! I will definitely share this.
It seems weird that you didn't mention basic dnd at all. It would seem from the video that odnd just kept going after adnd was released, where really the whole thing was split into 2 new branches.
Gygax got screwed by the money people, who always seem to screw things up.
Dig the video, well done. Commenting to help the almighty algorithm. ALL HAIL THE ALGORITHM!
This was a good idea. I am loving your history series
i like this topic, looking forward to part 2
Lorraine was a headache. I had a couple of run-ins with her at GenCon.
This is a really great video! I love the semi-personal commentary, it feels more relatable than just some lame wiki article.
That was brilliant.
Liked the new topic. You still brought the funny with the knowledge so thats a win for me.
Good vid commenting for the algorithm cause I want more like these.
This is great content. I dont understand why UA-cam practically hides your videos.
I hope this is an hour long video
If you want an hour long video, I have a few I can link you
You forgot the part where DnD accidentally he helped create Warhammer
It's weird to think how even just a few years ago DnD was so different.
I re-watched Gravity Falls not too long ago - which had a roleplaying episode - and also watched the "oh so controversial" DnD episode of Community and thought "Wow, they both show Dungeons and Dragons and roleplaying as this really nerdy thing and only nerds play." only to quickly realize that 5e hasn't even came out yet!
When the hobby became more accessible than ever in its history.
And I played 4e and Pathfinder 1e (the better game), I know where this social stigma comes from in those shows.
Anyway, I like this quick history overview series, and await part 2.
EGG created D&D, let that set in...
Love the history of D&D. Good video and hope more of this.
All of these comments before the premiere are the prehistory
Strange how tactical combat for DnD, the rules of war if you would, was birthed out of the..."Geneva Convention."
Part 2 is going to be great 👍
Comment for Saint Algorthmuses engagement score
loved the video!
Now This is davvy content I can vibe with
Neat video, and I'm really excited for part 2. I did have to pause and ponder the "unsavory views on women" comment slipped in there and never spoke of again, though.
I would like to see more stuff like this Davvy. I liked it.
Walking into this stuff is a minefield because of all the people with opinions on the matter, so I wish you luck in this endeavor.
i just read art and arcana but yeah this video summarizes it well
love the lore drop
Yes, the dnd cartoon is the best shit ever
Man, i loved that cartoon when i was a kid
@@Gabe600 we all did. That was the best
You're gonna acknowledge that Dave is the inventor and Gary was the salesman right?
Looked like a mix they both made bits and pieces and their combined efforts made d&d w/o 1 you would not have d&d like we had it.
I gotta concede to that point
Dave was the ideas guy and Gary was the rules guy
Definitely both in the effort
Hey who has not wanted to fight an army or orcs, goblins, and a demon with only a dwarf & human fighter, 4 halfling rogues, an elven & human ranger, and 1 human wizard! :D
Great content
Davvy man this is great! Keep up the history I’m digging it. Do you ever talk with AJ Pickett? He is also quite the D&D historian
It's weird to see your own LGS in a Davvy Chappy video lol