Imagine in 1985, Hogan gets on twitter and thanks the Iron Sheik for the job and tells everybody that they should work with this guy. Sheik replies calling him his brother and thanks him for the shoutout. Then Verne replies to them both telling them that he is a better champion. Luckily we didn't have that nonsense. Ignorance really can be bliss sometimes.
The great thing about The Undertaker (and this was because he lived the gimmick, like he said), was that you didn't have to believe he was supernatural to buy into it. All you had to believe was that Taker was able to make his opponent believe he (Taker) was supernaturally invincible. It's like you've said before, Jim, it's about intimidation and psychology. Taker didn't just move like a dead man, he moved like the villain in a slasher move. Watching him as a kid, the creepiest thing was to see him sit up like Michael Myers after taking a finishing move.
One thing I always think about when writing a character is "What other characters thinks of that character is as if not more important than what the character truely is". That's why people think Boba Fett is a great character, because everyone around talk about him like he's a one man army who can destroy everything in sight, same goes for Taker. Doesn't really matter if his powers are real or just tricks, what is sure is that people facing genuinely think they might not leave the ring on their feet.
I believe this is why The Fiend didn't work out. Originally he came across as a psycho that feels no pain but as soon as they made it supernatural it was downhill from there. I also believe that's why Papa Shango and The Dungeon of Doom didn't work.
I think having Paul Bearer (who actually was a licensed mortician in real life) helped him too. It wasn’t that people believed that Taker was actually invincible and supernatural. It was the creepy aura around him. The black clothing, the druids, the ubiquitous death imagery, etc. It was unsettling. It’s just like a movie. You know it’s fictional (or in some cases fictionalized portrayals of reality) but you’re still invested in it anyway.
It's ironic that the person who "lived his gimmick" the most and tried to make it the most believable was also the guy with the most unbelievable gimmick in the history of wrestling 😂
nah there's way way worse gimmicks out there getting paid to wrestle, just not anywhere near takers level. the indies are full of people who have magic, telekinesis, fight invisible people, lose to invisible people, use dick flips. it gets a lot worse than taker.
Well you've also got companies that are restricting what they can do, and also kinda forcing them out of character. Seeing Roman go play nice in an interview, MJF getting heat backstage for being a legit heel. Strange situation, I'd say it's not as much on the guys at some points.
But at the same time, it's not like any guy that's wrestling ever NEEDS social media, and if he does go onto it, he's also breaking his gimmick of his own free will. If it were me I'd be knocking all of the people I feud with, etc. It's not as hard as people make it seem.
I can usually forgive indie wrestlers wrestling in five different promotions in the span of a month, of a week. This place has Joe working heel against Johnny, this place has Joe working face against Johnny, and this place has Joe and Johnny becoming a tag team. When Joe and Johnny are under exclusivity contracts there really isn't an excuse. At least there should be an acknowledgement. "Okay fine, I have nobody to play No Mercy with, I have to show off my CAW to someone, beggars can't be choosers! Enjoy it, I'm still going to break your legs Sunday!"
The Undertaker wasn't as big of a mystique to me because I watched Southern wrestling and the NWA so I knew he was "Mean Mark" but it didn't stop me from buying in because he stayed in character all the time. He made you believe with his presence. Another person commented and it's my go to most of the time...guys like Ethan Page who are supposed to be a dastardly heel puts up videos of him buying toys with the people he's suppose to be feuding with. Stuff like that makes it almost impossible to "suspend belief". It's like, if you are watching an action movie and an actor jumps through a window to the ground below and then all of the sudden you see the stuntman get up from the bag and explain what really happened...it takes away from it all.
Being a grown man in his 30s buying toys is so fucking dorky. Doesn’t even matter if he’s with his opponent or not, publicly posting that shit will get u buried if I had a promotion, doesn’t appeal to anyone appealing and makes you look like a pussy
That's because Ethan knows that people these days aren't stupid like "back in the day" and can tell the difference between a character and a real person. So by your logic he shouldn't do anything good in real life because he plays a villain on a fake fighting show? Stupid.
Agreed. I felt the same about HHH. Going from Jean-Paul in WCW to Hunter Hearst Helmsley in WWF wasn't bothersome. Unlike Terra Ryzing, he finally got a name that made sense and was finally given some coherent direction to build a character. Still a snobby aristocrat, just going from French to American. And from there, he was allowed to add his own layers to it (wardrobe, bowing, Chyna, et al). Liked his decision as he evolved through DX (Solo, Evolution, etc) to not change his name altogether (like so many other talents), but just shorten it to Triple H. Some people get lost in their way with name changes (Papa Shango, Kama Mustafa, Godfather before they finally hit on what works). Sometimes playing long ball consistently will help you figure other stuff out and get over at the same time.
Just re-watched WrestleMania 17 today, if Undertaker & HHH or Rock & Austin had a joint press conference right after where they kissed each other's butts, man, what a letdown that would've been to a good WrestleMania.
HHH/Cena had some tense promos leading to WM22. Then after Unforgiven 2006 Vince scripted him to team with Cena vs Edge and a partner since he was still getting booed. 🙃🙃🙃
Undertaker is right. For example Ethan Page and Brody King are supposed to be top heels in AEW, yet you can see them on a podcast buying dolls at a toy store. There are even heels coking and joking on that lame ass “Hey Ew” UA-cam show. I don’t think that *IT’S. STILL REAL TO ME DAMMIT!* but could you meet me halfway?
Once upon a time wrestlers wouldn’t be seen anywhere near the person they were feuding with outside of a wrestling-related situation. Heels and faces went to different restaurants, different locker rooms, etc.
I’m sooooooo glad my era of being a true,hardcore Wrestling fan was from 92-2002 and I had no clue what Dirtsheets were or TF a Meltzer was,me and my friends could just get lost in it. Even when I watch it today,everybody except maybe Brock Lesnar just HAAAAS to wink at the camera or do a podcast or whine on twitter and remind you how fake it all is. Did I really think the Undertaker was a zombie or a dead guy who wrestled when he didnt feel like being dead? No but I didnt care. So many of these modern wrestlers are so consumed with who does or doesnt like them,the actual ppl they need to get over with are secondary to a match rating or getting applause on twitter. Smh
The only time I stopped getting lost with Undertaker was when someone gave him a lowblow. I'd giggle at my Mom and say, "Hey, you're The Deadman. You shouldn't be able to feel someone hitting you in your tombstone!"
The undertaker didn't just live the gimmick he was the gimmick. His character was great and it even evolved as time went on. Undertaker is a legend in the business. What a wrestler.
@Trent Steffes you should re read your comment and realize that he pulled off such a stupid gimmick. Your wow makes sense in that context compared to your sarcastic original. I think taker was a great big man but an overrated performer/wrestler overall. It is impressive that he pulled that gimmick off.
ie. Rick Flair lived his gimmick so hard he actually became his gimmick. Scott Hall never dropped the accent dispite not being hispanic. The Undertaker is still believable dispite an unbelievable
Somewhere along the line they started to assume that because people knew it was scripted they didn't have to try to make it seem real anymore. This goes for both inside the ring and outside. For those of us that don't enjoy watching wrestling like a figure skating competition to be judged, we can no longer watch because it is impossible to suspend your disbelief in 2023.
It’s not even that people need to believe it’s real. We all know it’s a show obviously. It’s more that even though we know this that it doesn’t need to be thrown in our face that it’s all a show. We know you’re working together but that doesn’t mean you need to come out to a scrum right after your match to tell us all how great someone is or what you did to set everything up and such. Nobody expects you to fully commit to acting like it’s legitimate but we do expect you to not throw it in our faces that it’s a show all the time. It’s ok to hood back on some stuff and let what’s left of the mystique of things exist to the level it can in the modern day.
It's like TV shows that have a behind the scenes show or videos right after the episode. Obviously you know it's not real, but it totally takes away from suspension of disbelief.
One of the reasons why Hardcore Holly is one of my favorite wrestlers is because he's literally just being himself but slightly exaggerated for television.
HHH is like that too. The Game isn't really a gimmick. The business has been his life 24/7 even before he entered it professionally. He's been a mark turned nerd turned legend since he first became a fan.
My buddy has a story of winding up infront of one of the wrestler busses, as a kid. The doors open & the Undertaker is there. Undertaker scares the crap out of him & he runs away as Undertaker & the rest laugh. He said its one of his favorite memories.
It’s like watching a magic show where you know there’s tricks involved but you have no idea how it happens and it amazes you but imagine if the magician tells you how the trick is done before he shows you all the emotion is gone it’s just like wrestling today you don’t feel anything watching it cause you don’t buy into what they’re doing
Kind of like believing in santa claus as a kid. The excitement was believing he was real. Keeping the mystery in something is what draws people, to me the last mysterious thing in wrestling was The Streak. When Lesnar broke it, with Taker's permission, that's when i lost what little interest i had left. Now i only watch old clips of old school wrestlers.
For me I never thought of the Undertaker as “dead” or like a Jason Voorhees.. but as an actual undertaker and who was a bad ass 7’ tall dude who was tough af and could obviously take another superstars punch and otherwise pedestrian offense and who would kidnap and embalm the jobbers he used to leave the ring with in the body bag..
As a lifelong smark, what it was for me is that guys like Undertaker made me not care that it wasn't real, it didn't matter, he was big, he was imposing and he carried himself that way so I bought into that. Had I seen him turn up on Sesamee Street when I was 5 years old I wouldn't still be thinking about him 3 decades later.
Definitely knew Undertaker was an alive Human, but he made it so you could suspend belief while we was there. And boy, the way he made little kids shit themselves back when he first debuted is legendary. If anybody hasn’t go back and watch the first year or so of Undertaker in WWF. The camera will often pan to the kids and some of their faces are so funny. 😂
I think about when I was a kid.. UA-cam was just starting and they'd put videos "proof WWE is fake" and would put slight botches and I'd be so mad. I'd always say, oh they just missed the move. Now all the wrestlers talk about how fake it is and there's all these wrestling websites and "journalists" that show videos of the magic or exposing the business. It's gonna hurt the future generation of fans I'd think
A big problem in that matter i have with the fans. The moment you actually get immersed in the show or the wrestler its always a supposed fan who tells you that its fake, throws a million insider words at you and you just cant immerse yourself anymore. Its just sad.
Undertaker had people come up to him and ask if he was really dead. Kids cried in the beginning because they were scared of him . But when they started to like him they were sad because the kids thought he was really dead so they cried because of that. So I guess some believed he was dead. Some of the younger kids.
So I saw a post from someone else on a different video that said “can Tampax Sponsor Jon Moxley’s next match since he bleeds so much” now that’s funny and true.” So kudos to whoever posted that.
Always agreed with taker on this if I was a wrestler I would not never break character and I can't even blame social media cause in honest truth you can use social media to further enhance your character even off television or house shows but it's like no one even tries anymore and the company has gotten lazy with checking that and people knew wrestling wasn't real even back in the days but the idea of the wrestler being larger than life or more than just a person is what sold the matches and what sold the segments
'Taker did a house show in my town in like 96 but no later than 97. He did a signing that afternoon. He stayed in character the whole time. When my friend and I approached him he barely nodded at us. I offered him my hand and said 'thank you very much sir'. he took it slowly and gave me the slightest of nods. My friend strode up and said 'nice to meet you Mr. Calaway'. 'Taker turned even darker and said 'what the fuck do you think you know'? We got the hell out of there fast. Truth be told it made the show that night even better. Keep in mind this was when he was wrestling as a baby face against the heel mankind. We left there not believing that taker was a 'deadman', nor did we think wrestling wasn't predetermined but we did leave there thinking that Undertaker was one of the baddest motherfuckers on the planet. Now that he's retired and we've seen a few interviews he comes off as just a really kind man.
that was a really smart and cool way for him to handle that kind of situation and enhance your experience at the same time obviously nobodys ever gonna believe wrestling is a real contest but something is lost when you tell people every fuckin thing. a little uncertainty is important to suspend disbelief. you know its predetermined but somtimes you cant be totally sure to what extent im still not sure if arn anderson planned on slapping the shit out of brian pillman or if he was actually pissed. arn seemed genuinely angry and brian seemed both shocked and hurt by it so it makes you wonder.. hell some people even think cm punks pipebomb wasnt totally scripted lol
@@warshipsatin8764 Honestly for years I just assumed he was miserable because it was a stupid un-televised house show in Canada in a city of barely over 50k, in a venue that only holds 4k people. I assumed he'd rather have been outside touching grass or having a nap. Most likely it was a combo of both. It never dawned on me that he was just staying in character.
MJF is the example of why Kayfabe can still exist. He's the most over guy in AEW for a reason. He doesn't play a heel at work and then off work he plays a good guy NOOOO. Turns his asshole on and leaves it on
Wrestling, even today, has always lived and died on the Suspension of Disbelief. Yes, Kayfabe is gone, yes, we know it's all rigged, but a quality show is one where for just a couple hours, we can sit at ringside or around the TV and go "Goddamn! These guys are really trying to kill each other! That guy is freaking Certifiably insane!". Yes, we know it's not real, but there is a difference between admitting it's "fake" and throwing it in our face.
Why not just make 2 accounts for social media, 1 for your character, one for you personally. As far as the "media scrum" after, they have those in all non scripted sports, if they learn to do them correctly, it could be great to set up future events.
I think the key thing is that living the gimmick improves your performance. It's like method acting. Since The Undertaker paid so much attention to the portrayal of his gimmick you didn't see him laughing or breaking character which resulted in better angles and matches. I was just watching 1999 Raw a few months ago with the Ministry of Darkness and it's pretty terrible stuff but Taker does it completely straight when you figure most wrestlers today would do such bad material tongue in cheek, unless they came up with it themselves and were not aware how bad it was. You think of how to really work a match and a big part of that is knowing your gimmick and thus knowing how would you sell, when would you sell, what moveset would you use, what kind of finish wouldn't damage your reputation. A guy like Undertaker knows that it should take more to hurt him than the average wrestler and that he should move in a more deliberate pace like a slasher movie villain. He can't really lose clean unless it's too really elevate a top guy like Steve Austin. He does high flying moves but they're done infrequently enough that it comes across as superhuman when he does them and they're sold like death. If you don't take your gimmick seriously enough then your working is just doing the moves you know how to do and letting the other guy get his stuff in. It isn't like the fans were all fooled in the old days because it's been common knowledge that wrestling is fake forever but the wrestlers acted as if they were fooling everyone and their performance was better because of it. Bookers made sure to have details worked out so as to not expose the business. Wrestlers with lousy looking offense didn't last unless they shaped up because they weren't convincing. Kayfabe just set a baseline of how good your stuff had to be to be featured on a major promotion's cards.
This is why bray Wyatt is a big fail. He talks about being the eater of worlds and has supernatural powers but it’s ruined when he’s posting pictures on twitter having dinner with his kids or he’s at a press conference out of character talking about creative control In the wwe.
One thing that should really go away are wrestlers commenting about how great a match they have, how they just had a "5 star match" or "match of the year". Their aim should be to beat their opponent, to establish their supremacy! If it takes 30 seconds to beat your opponent then wouldn't it be something that they should be more proud to accomplish than having the "match of the year"?
I remember back in 1997 when Undertaker was in the middle of his first Deadman run, he did an interview along with Vader on some type of news show where he was completely out of character, dressed in real clothes and talking normal with a Southern accent. It was weird for me to see him like that. He essentially looked like The American Bada$$ gimmick years before that gimmick came out, so that's how he dresses in real life. That was the first time I had ever seen kayfabe broken by a wrestler and was when I first recognized that he was just playing a character.
It was a visit to Kuwait. The Kuwaiti interviewer asked if it's fake. The people backstage were expecting Vader to do a David Schultz slap type of thing and threaten him. But they didn't tell the interviewer that, and Vader got stuck in Kuwait while the governments dealt with the situation. That's why they showed it on WWF programming. It made the news as an 'international incident'.
@@goodday2760 Taker sitting there completely nonplussed was hilarious. Vader throwing tables around and grabbing the interviewer, yet the old Deadman just no sells it. Believe it was a prank on the interviewer by the producers of the show, only he never saw the funny side.
dude this is a problem across all professional and non professional work in america. no one is serious about shit. and the people who are real are working the most fulfilled while those faking are the most miserable even though we live in the "best country in the world".
I really appreciate what Jim has said in the past about guys in the old days who’s "gimmicks" where to be a nutter but that’s actually who you believed they where, they weren’t just acting like some crazy movie character who they mark out to like the boys of today. That’s why I think we need more nut cases in wrestling today (to a certain extent of course).
anyone who is smart enough should not let wrestling manipulate them its a work theres lots of things even back in the day that exposed whether its the moves and the opponent helping them and promos etc the best thing mark calaway did was when he did start talking towards the end to prove it is a work and when jim says wrestling is not acting it is theres many things that proves it. kayfabe should have never existed like eddie mansfield said.
its funny that jim said reality tv, when for years they were doing a better job of upholding keyfabe than the wrestling business. then even after they've had their business exposed, they're doing a better job of keeping their gimmicks alive so that people believe the personalities even though the shows are edited and produced to the point that it's all a bunch of bullshit.
Imagine Stone Cold in his prime vlogging about his next match and how much he likes working with his opponent or Kane, again in his prime, doing an interview about a day in the life of Glenn Jacobs and howbhe trains. The point is wrestlers today have no idea how to sell something because they do not put the effort of playing with disbelief and the need to be on social media doing videos all the time.
A good example of Glenn driving Percy (Paul Bearer) wearing a ski mask. When I met Shawn and Scott when they were still with the AWA, they were wearing Zubaz pants.😁
There was one random time in the 2010s where undertaker went on Kimmel or Fallon just to hit a tombstone and roll his eyes only time I’ve seen him in a setting like that 😂
With being blinded, didn’t The Sandman in ECW go to those lengths JYD did. He would never answer the door of his home, his wife would, when going out his wife would lead him around, she would drive
I think it's just gone now an alot of the fans today wanna see how the sausage is made were as before the fans brought into the gimmicks fully an today fans are interested In the behind the scenes of the shows etc an it's just the times we live in with social media
And to think most wrestlers used to critise Ultimate Warrior and Macho Man for staying in character and taking it more serious. Glad and happy to hear takers point of view. Taker, Warrior and Mach are legends of legends!
People really gave Bret Hart crap for that, but look what happened when that attitude gave way to "Silly and Fun". Now wrestling, especially AEW resembles a group of bratty neighborhood children running into random homes, jumping on the furniture, and making goofy faces at the homeowners who them have to chase them off. Wrestling needs more Bret Hart and less Chikara/DDT unfunny comedy.
@@vycanismajoris6871 exactly. I hoped for a legitimate promotion to provide an alternative to WWE, and got a Chikara/DDT/PWG clown show. I don't like the comedy shows because of bullshit like invisible hand grenades, invisible men, pause buttons, using The Force, mid match dance routines, Pockets, small children and family dogs scoring pins over grown adult men, or gross nonsense like anything involving that creep Joey Ryan or Kenny's pervert friends Chasyn Rance and Micheal Nakazawa. There are limits as to what belongs on a wrestling show, and the Remedial Class Field Trip from Reseda most certainly does NOT.
In mexico chessman is working an angle with an interviewer and a lot of people believe it was legir, until someone recorded them on his phone training their future match, it's hard to keep kayfabe in real life today
Exactly what Corny is referring to, is why I miss the territory days, and the pre-1990 days of wrestling (except for the clown-i-ness (made up word) of the WWF). It was believable that the Horsemen broke Dusty's leg. It was believable that Lawler didn't like Kaufman. Etc, etc, etc.
I don’t remember him embalming any bodies when he wasn’t wrestling. By and large he didn’t give interviews so it was a lot easier for him to stay in character also.
The Alexa Blisses of the world are the problem that are a completely different person on social media and even put their gimmick name in quotation marks on the profile. Wrestlers wrestle in the real world in real time with interactions with real people, they can't pretend to perform in an isolated bubble. Yes, theater actors do that in front of real people but their plays are really isolated without continuity between the plays. Wrestlers need to live their gimmick, otherwise their own business has no point.
the most insane thing he said along with the wresters now play video games and bla bla bla back in my day we road around with knives and guns , amazing! lol
For 3 or so hours I want to forget about the life I have and see guys beat the crap out of each other. I want there to be a good guy and the bad guy. And I don't want to be reminded at the end of the show that the whole thing was fake.
None of this applies to the current wrestling scene, even Undertaker realised that when he hired a company to manage his social media even before he retired
I agree EXCEPT for Jim having issue with people wanting to have options outside wrestling. No one wants to be a broken version of themselves, limping around conventions because they have no other choice.
Welcome to why there's an outspoken portion of the community, including myself, who think biker taker was clearly superior. Wonder why we would think that....
Imagine in 1985, Hogan gets on twitter and thanks the Iron Sheik for the job and tells everybody that they should work with this guy. Sheik replies calling him his brother and thanks him for the shoutout. Then Verne replies to them both telling them that he is a better champion. Luckily we didn't have that nonsense. Ignorance really can be bliss sometimes.
Imagine it’s 1996 and Hollywood Hogan and the gang “hack” all WCW’s social media platforms and make it all nWo themed and post immature memes lol
@@LRM5195 nWo 4Likes 🤘😂😂😂
@@LRM5195 "Anon is in the nWo".
The Iron Sheik did the job in January 1984... outside of that...
I see ya.
@@ASCUMBAGWh0re Same dude, wrestling pre-summer of 96 is just 🥴. Even the first half of WWF 97 was taking some willpower to make it through
The great thing about The Undertaker (and this was because he lived the gimmick, like he said), was that you didn't have to believe he was supernatural to buy into it. All you had to believe was that Taker was able to make his opponent believe he (Taker) was supernaturally invincible. It's like you've said before, Jim, it's about intimidation and psychology. Taker didn't just move like a dead man, he moved like the villain in a slasher move. Watching him as a kid, the creepiest thing was to see him sit up like Michael Myers after taking a finishing move.
One thing I always think about when writing a character is "What other characters thinks of that character is as if not more important than what the character truely is". That's why people think Boba Fett is a great character, because everyone around talk about him like he's a one man army who can destroy everything in sight, same goes for Taker. Doesn't really matter if his powers are real or just tricks, what is sure is that people facing genuinely think they might not leave the ring on their feet.
@@Paugose Great comparison
That's just as stupid. No. I didn't believe that grown men who wrestled believed he was supernaturally invincible
I believe this is why The Fiend didn't work out. Originally he came across as a psycho that feels no pain but as soon as they made it supernatural it was downhill from there. I also believe that's why Papa Shango and The Dungeon of Doom didn't work.
I think having Paul Bearer (who actually was a licensed mortician in real life) helped him too. It wasn’t that people believed that Taker was actually invincible and supernatural. It was the creepy aura around him. The black clothing, the druids, the ubiquitous death imagery, etc. It was unsettling.
It’s just like a movie. You know it’s fictional (or in some cases fictionalized portrayals of reality) but you’re still invested in it anyway.
It's ironic that the person who "lived his gimmick" the most and tried to make it the most believable was also the guy with the most unbelievable gimmick in the history of wrestling 😂
And it worked😂
Well technically speaking, American Bad Ass/Big Evil was a 2.0 of the "mean mark" WCW gimmick.
@@GenGamesUniverse no it wasn’t 😂
@@GenGamesUniverse not really but sure
nah there's way way worse gimmicks out there getting paid to wrestle, just not anywhere near takers level. the indies are full of people who have magic, telekinesis, fight invisible people, lose to invisible people, use dick flips. it gets a lot worse than taker.
100% agree with taker, social media killed all gimmicks and wrestling in general.
Truth, plus heels today are afraid of being cancelled while heels back then would do anything and not care about consequences from snowflakes
and the "vLoGs"
He’s old school. And yes - he’s completely right
Well you've also got companies that are restricting what they can do, and also kinda forcing them out of character. Seeing Roman go play nice in an interview, MJF getting heat backstage for being a legit heel. Strange situation, I'd say it's not as much on the guys at some points.
But at the same time, it's not like any guy that's wrestling ever NEEDS social media, and if he does go onto it, he's also breaking his gimmick of his own free will. If it were me I'd be knocking all of the people I feud with, etc. It's not as hard as people make it seem.
You have clowns like Xavier Woods will be in a feud with someone then, have them on his gaming channel. Someone like MJF keeps kayfabe alive.
I can usually forgive indie wrestlers wrestling in five different promotions in the span of a month, of a week. This place has Joe working heel against Johnny, this place has Joe working face against Johnny, and this place has Joe and Johnny becoming a tag team. When Joe and Johnny are under exclusivity contracts there really isn't an excuse.
At least there should be an acknowledgement. "Okay fine, I have nobody to play No Mercy with, I have to show off my CAW to someone, beggars can't be choosers! Enjoy it, I'm still going to break your legs Sunday!"
The Undertaker wasn't as big of a mystique to me because I watched Southern wrestling and the NWA so I knew he was "Mean Mark" but it didn't stop me from buying in because he stayed in character all the time. He made you believe with his presence. Another person commented and it's my go to most of the time...guys like Ethan Page who are supposed to be a dastardly heel puts up videos of him buying toys with the people he's suppose to be feuding with. Stuff like that makes it almost impossible to "suspend belief". It's like, if you are watching an action movie and an actor jumps through a window to the ground below and then all of the sudden you see the stuntman get up from the bag and explain what really happened...it takes away from it all.
Being a grown man in his 30s buying toys is so fucking dorky. Doesn’t even matter if he’s with his opponent or not, publicly posting that shit will get u buried if I had a promotion, doesn’t appeal to anyone appealing and makes you look like a pussy
That's because Ethan knows that people these days aren't stupid like "back in the day" and can tell the difference between a character and a real person. So by your logic he shouldn't do anything good in real life because he plays a villain on a fake fighting show? Stupid.
Agreed.
I felt the same about HHH. Going from Jean-Paul in WCW to Hunter Hearst Helmsley in WWF wasn't bothersome. Unlike Terra Ryzing, he finally got a name that made sense and was finally given some coherent direction to build a character. Still a snobby aristocrat, just going from French to American. And from there, he was allowed to add his own layers to it (wardrobe, bowing, Chyna, et al). Liked his decision as he evolved through DX (Solo, Evolution, etc) to not change his name altogether (like so many other talents), but just shorten it to Triple H.
Some people get lost in their way with name changes (Papa Shango, Kama Mustafa, Godfather before they finally hit on what works). Sometimes playing long ball consistently will help you figure other stuff out and get over at the same time.
One of the best kayfabe stories Jim has told is the Junk Yard Dog story where the fan jumped in the ring with a knife or gun to protect JYD.
I remember that. It was a gun because to quote dog "it was the biggest gun I've ever seen in my life"
Just re-watched WrestleMania 17 today, if Undertaker & HHH or Rock & Austin had a joint press conference right after where they kissed each other's butts, man, what a letdown that would've been to a good WrestleMania.
No they just hugged on camera after the next years show. Funny how you didn't mention that. Undertaker's a lying douche bag.
Austin had a press conference after WM 14 when he beat Shawn. It's on the VHS.
HHH/Cena had some tense promos leading to WM22. Then after Unforgiven 2006 Vince scripted him to team with Cena vs Edge and a partner since he was still getting booed. 🙃🙃🙃
If a guy can pretend to be an undead mortician for 30+ years, you have no excuse.
This is a main reason I like MJF so much , he always stays in character
AEW is terrible but MJF is best wrestler alive right now 💯
He’s not staying in character, he’s just a douche bag
MJF kills the "You can't get heel heat anymore because everyone knows it's the promotion." excuse most talent use today.
Danhausen too actually
I don't think it is a character. He is just trash human irl
Undertaker is right. For example Ethan Page and Brody King are supposed to be top heels in AEW, yet you can see them on a podcast buying dolls at a toy store. There are even heels coking and joking on that lame ass “Hey Ew” UA-cam show. I don’t think that *IT’S. STILL REAL TO ME DAMMIT!* but could you meet me halfway?
Ethan Page is a BOTTOM TOP GUY
Once upon a time wrestlers wouldn’t be seen anywhere near the person they were feuding with outside of a wrestling-related situation. Heels and faces went to different restaurants, different locker rooms, etc.
I’m sooooooo glad my era of being a true,hardcore Wrestling fan was from 92-2002 and I had no clue what Dirtsheets were or TF a Meltzer was,me and my friends could just get lost in it. Even when I watch it today,everybody except maybe Brock Lesnar just HAAAAS to wink at the camera or do a podcast or whine on twitter and remind you how fake it all is. Did I really think the Undertaker was a zombie or a dead guy who wrestled when he didnt feel like being dead? No but I didnt care. So many of these modern wrestlers are so consumed with who does or doesnt like them,the actual ppl they need to get over with are secondary to a match rating or getting applause on twitter. Smh
2002 wasn't even that long ago. STFU gramps.
The only time I stopped getting lost with Undertaker was when someone gave him a lowblow.
I'd giggle at my Mom and say, "Hey, you're The Deadman. You shouldn't be able to feel someone hitting you in your tombstone!"
@@smellywaffels1967 You don't have blood running from your mouth so yes, it was a VERY LONG TIME AGO.
The undertaker didn't just live the gimmick he was the gimmick. His character was great and it even evolved as time went on. Undertaker is a legend in the business. What a wrestler.
He was a fucking zombie?? Wow!
@Trent Steffes you should re read your comment and realize that he pulled off such a stupid gimmick. Your wow makes sense in that context compared to your sarcastic original.
I think taker was a great big man but an overrated performer/wrestler overall. It is impressive that he pulled that gimmick off.
ie. Rick Flair lived his gimmick so hard he actually became his gimmick. Scott Hall never dropped the accent dispite not being hispanic. The Undertaker is still believable dispite an unbelievable
That and also no more surprises when people come back..I miss not knowing when someone is returning from injury or signed to wwe
Taker and Macho Man lived their gimmicks
and Flair
And Steve Austin and Sting Kane
@@robertcorbitt1476 Did Sting make public appearances in his facepaint ?
Somewhere along the line they started to assume that because people knew it was scripted they didn't have to try to make it seem real anymore. This goes for both inside the ring and outside. For those of us that don't enjoy watching wrestling like a figure skating competition to be judged, we can no longer watch because it is impossible to suspend your disbelief in 2023.
It’s not even that people need to believe it’s real. We all know it’s a show obviously. It’s more that even though we know this that it doesn’t need to be thrown in our face that it’s all a show. We know you’re working together but that doesn’t mean you need to come out to a scrum right after your match to tell us all how great someone is or what you did to set everything up and such. Nobody expects you to fully commit to acting like it’s legitimate but we do expect you to not throw it in our faces that it’s a show all the time. It’s ok to hood back on some stuff and let what’s left of the mystique of things exist to the level it can in the modern day.
You’d think when legends like Jim Cornette and The Undertaker agree on a piece of advice, at least some of these wrestlers might take it to heart…
My parents saw the Undertaker, in full costume, with Paul Bearer, also in costume, at the Pearson airport way back. My dad was afraid to approach him.
THIS JUST IN:
SOME OLDHEAD SAYS YOUNGINS SHOULD DO THINGS THE WAY THEY DID 30 YEARS LATER AND IT DOESN'T GO SO WELL....
It's like TV shows that have a behind the scenes show or videos right after the episode. Obviously you know it's not real, but it totally takes away from suspension of disbelief.
One of the reasons why Hardcore Holly is one of my favorite wrestlers is because he's literally just being himself but slightly exaggerated for television.
HHH is like that too. The Game isn't really a gimmick. The business has been his life 24/7 even before he entered it professionally. He's been a mark turned nerd turned legend since he first became a fan.
I hated Hardcore Holly.
@@DuragAllDay Hey I need someone to clean my windows. Can you lick them? Ya seem to be good at that.
My buddy has a story of winding up infront of one of the wrestler busses, as a kid. The doors open & the Undertaker is there. Undertaker scares the crap out of him & he runs away as Undertaker & the rest laugh.
He said its one of his favorite memories.
That's why biker taker was my favorite version of him. You felt that's how he really was.
It’s like watching a magic show where you know there’s tricks involved but you have no idea how it happens and it amazes you but imagine if the magician tells you how the trick is done before he shows you all the emotion is gone it’s just like wrestling today you don’t feel anything watching it cause you don’t buy into what they’re doing
Kind of like believing in santa claus as a kid. The excitement was believing he was real. Keeping the mystery in something is what draws people, to me the last mysterious thing in wrestling was The Streak. When Lesnar broke it, with Taker's permission, that's when i lost what little interest i had left. Now i only watch old clips of old school wrestlers.
Lumberjim is what we all need
Ultimate Warrior Lived his Gimmick
Taker and Flair are pretty much the only ones who really lived their gimmick
Iron sheik .
HHH
Rock still does it even if he's Hollywood LOL
Savage
For me I never thought of the Undertaker as “dead” or like a Jason Voorhees.. but as an actual undertaker and who was a bad ass 7’ tall dude who was tough af and could obviously take another superstars punch and otherwise pedestrian offense and who would kidnap and embalm the jobbers he used to leave the ring with in the body bag..
Yep, social media has ruined kayfabe and gimmicks and makes it a joke
Thanks swifty
I don't know where I heard this, but it rings true to me: everybody knows that the Undertaker is only human, but no one's ever been able to prove it.
As a lifelong smark, what it was for me is that guys like Undertaker made me not care that it wasn't real, it didn't matter, he was big, he was imposing and he carried himself that way so I bought into that. Had I seen him turn up on Sesamee Street when I was 5 years old I wouldn't still be thinking about him 3 decades later.
Definitely knew Undertaker was an alive Human, but he made it so you could suspend belief while we was there. And boy, the way he made little kids shit themselves back when he first debuted is legendary. If anybody hasn’t go back and watch the first year or so of Undertaker in WWF. The camera will often pan to the kids and some of their faces are so funny. 😂
When I was 5 years old the minute I heard a gong I went behind the couch because I believed he was the most terrifying presence I have ever seen
Marks are also to blame because they believe having a character or a gimmick isn’t necessary and Triple H and Tony Khan caters to them.
The iron sheikh has kept his gimmick longer than anyone
Remember when Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton, etc. were true to their gimmicks and actual a-holes in public?
Yeah, the people didn't want that.
The more we talk about the death of kayfabe, the more I realize how social media or mass communication in general also comes with a negative effect. 😭
That's been a fact for like 15 years now.
I think about when I was a kid.. UA-cam was just starting and they'd put videos "proof WWE is fake" and would put slight botches and I'd be so mad. I'd always say, oh they just missed the move.
Now all the wrestlers talk about how fake it is and there's all these wrestling websites and "journalists" that show videos of the magic or exposing the business. It's gonna hurt the future generation of fans I'd think
A big problem in that matter i have with the fans.
The moment you actually get immersed in the show or the wrestler its always a supposed fan who tells you that its fake, throws a million insider words at you and you just cant immerse yourself anymore. Its just sad.
Now that Taker is retired, MJF is single-handedly keeping kayfabe alive.
I'm fairly confident that's the first time in human history "anally raped by a chainsaw" has ever been spoken
This sports entertainment now . His generation it was wrestling. Plus everyone knows that it's a work and don't care.
This is why I respect MJF, he stays in character.
I love Taker but let's face it, HOW MANY coffins has he berried in real life if he really wants to live the gimmick? 🤨🤨¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Jericho is the biggest culprit of doing this to pay himself on the back even when it isn’t deserved ..
Undertaker had people come up to him and ask if he was really dead. Kids cried in the beginning because they were scared of him . But when they started to like him they were sad because the kids thought he was really dead so they cried because of that. So I guess some believed he was dead. Some of the younger kids.
So I saw a post from someone else on a different video that said “can Tampax Sponsor Jon Moxley’s next match since he bleeds so much” now that’s funny and true.” So kudos to whoever posted that.
Always agreed with taker on this if I was a wrestler I would not never break character and I can't even blame social media cause in honest truth you can use social media to further enhance your character even off television or house shows but it's like no one even tries anymore and the company has gotten lazy with checking that and people knew wrestling wasn't real even back in the days but the idea of the wrestler being larger than life or more than just a person is what sold the matches and what sold the segments
Imagine living the Ding Dongs gimmick xD
'Taker did a house show in my town in like 96 but no later than 97. He did a signing that afternoon. He stayed in character the whole time. When my friend and I approached him he barely nodded at us. I offered him my hand and said 'thank you very much sir'. he took it slowly and gave me the slightest of nods. My friend strode up and said 'nice to meet you Mr. Calaway'. 'Taker turned even darker and said 'what the fuck do you think you know'? We got the hell out of there fast. Truth be told it made the show that night even better.
Keep in mind this was when he was wrestling as a baby face against the heel mankind.
We left there not believing that taker was a 'deadman', nor did we think wrestling wasn't predetermined but we did leave there thinking that Undertaker was one of the baddest motherfuckers on the planet.
Now that he's retired and we've seen a few interviews he comes off as just a really kind man.
that was a really smart and cool way for him to handle that kind of situation and enhance your experience at the same time
obviously nobodys ever gonna believe wrestling is a real contest but something is lost when you tell people every fuckin thing. a little uncertainty is important to suspend disbelief. you know its predetermined but somtimes you cant be totally sure to what extent
im still not sure if arn anderson planned on slapping the shit out of brian pillman or if he was actually pissed. arn seemed genuinely angry and brian seemed both shocked and hurt by it so it makes you wonder.. hell some people even think cm punks pipebomb wasnt totally scripted lol
@@warshipsatin8764 Honestly for years I just assumed he was miserable because it was a stupid un-televised house show in Canada in a city of barely over 50k, in a venue that only holds 4k people. I assumed he'd rather have been outside touching grass or having a nap. Most likely it was a combo of both. It never dawned on me that he was just staying in character.
Didn't mark get sick of his gimmick once to before he Bowed to the legend.
MJF is the example of why Kayfabe can still exist. He's the most over guy in AEW for a reason. He doesn't play a heel at work and then off work he plays a good guy NOOOO. Turns his asshole on and leaves it on
MJF is the only wrestler today that lives his heel gimmick
Yeah the press conferences after the events on wrestling shows are weird. Thank goodness MJF makes the media scrums enjoyable.
It's true when they say the most successful gimmicks are the ones that are an extension of the people who are working them.
Undertaker is Absolutely Right and look no further than MJF for example that's the best I can think of.
Danhausen too actually
@@frankE91210 But he’s done that conan o’brien podcast thing out of makeup and character
@John Face his interview with Chris Van Vliet was awesome
@@frankE91210 and DanHausen
bloodline aswell
Wrestling, even today, has always lived and died on the Suspension of Disbelief. Yes, Kayfabe is gone, yes, we know it's all rigged, but a quality show is one where for just a couple hours, we can sit at ringside or around the TV and go "Goddamn! These guys are really trying to kill each other! That guy is freaking Certifiably insane!". Yes, we know it's not real, but there is a difference between admitting it's "fake" and throwing it in our face.
Why not just make 2 accounts for social media, 1 for your character, one for you personally. As far as the "media scrum" after, they have those in all non scripted sports, if they learn to do them correctly, it could be great to set up future events.
I think the key thing is that living the gimmick improves your performance. It's like method acting. Since The Undertaker paid so much attention to the portrayal of his gimmick you didn't see him laughing or breaking character which resulted in better angles and matches. I was just watching 1999 Raw a few months ago with the Ministry of Darkness and it's pretty terrible stuff but Taker does it completely straight when you figure most wrestlers today would do such bad material tongue in cheek, unless they came up with it themselves and were not aware how bad it was. You think of how to really work a match and a big part of that is knowing your gimmick and thus knowing how would you sell, when would you sell, what moveset would you use, what kind of finish wouldn't damage your reputation. A guy like Undertaker knows that it should take more to hurt him than the average wrestler and that he should move in a more deliberate pace like a slasher movie villain. He can't really lose clean unless it's too really elevate a top guy like Steve Austin. He does high flying moves but they're done infrequently enough that it comes across as superhuman when he does them and they're sold like death. If you don't take your gimmick seriously enough then your working is just doing the moves you know how to do and letting the other guy get his stuff in.
It isn't like the fans were all fooled in the old days because it's been common knowledge that wrestling is fake forever but the wrestlers acted as if they were fooling everyone and their performance was better because of it. Bookers made sure to have details worked out so as to not expose the business. Wrestlers with lousy looking offense didn't last unless they shaped up because they weren't convincing. Kayfabe just set a baseline of how good your stuff had to be to be featured on a major promotion's cards.
so how would marks moves have to have been if he got hatched from the egg?
@@herzkine depends on character
Undertaker can say whatever the fuck he wants to! He has the credibility to back up every word...
That's awesome! Really cool video!
This is why bray Wyatt is a big fail. He talks about being the eater of worlds and has supernatural powers but it’s ruined when he’s posting pictures on twitter having dinner with his kids or he’s at a press conference out of character talking about creative control In the wwe.
To be fair, Taker did switch his gimmick to a Biker for a few years and got "Sara" tattooed on his neck.
And BSK on his stomach, and allowed himself to be called Mark on camera.
One thing that should really go away are wrestlers commenting about how great a match they have, how they just had a "5 star match" or "match of the year". Their aim should be to beat their opponent, to establish their supremacy! If it takes 30 seconds to beat your opponent then wouldn't it be something that they should be more proud to accomplish than having the "match of the year"?
This generation are a junior high theatre troupe; it's all mutual ball-fluffing, at this point.
And then there's MJF 😂 This is why I love the guy
I only knew about his spilt with Sara via the removal of his tattoo..
social media could work for wrestlers if they stuck to their gimmick
If they stuck to the gimmick they wouldn't be on SM.
I remember back in 1997 when Undertaker was in the middle of his first Deadman run, he did an interview along with Vader on some type of news show where he was completely out of character, dressed in real clothes and talking normal with a Southern accent. It was weird for me to see him like that. He essentially looked like The American Bada$$ gimmick years before that gimmick came out, so that's how he dresses in real life. That was the first time I had ever seen kayfabe broken by a wrestler and was when I first recognized that he was just playing a character.
It was a visit to Kuwait. The Kuwaiti interviewer asked if it's fake. The people backstage were expecting Vader to do a David Schultz slap type of thing and threaten him. But they didn't tell the interviewer that, and Vader got stuck in Kuwait while the governments dealt with the situation. That's why they showed it on WWF programming. It made the news as an 'international incident'.
@@goodday2760 Taker sitting there completely nonplussed was hilarious.
Vader throwing tables around and grabbing the interviewer, yet the old Deadman just no sells it.
Believe it was a prank on the interviewer by the producers of the show, only he never saw the funny side.
Used to think Taker lived in my state.. that’s how good he was🤟🏾🐐
Texas 😊
He wasn't 7 foot lol he was 6'9" at best 😂😂
6ft7, Kevin Nash was 6'9
Yes. Everyone knows this. It’s always been done to make them look bigger.
A lot of people don' t have the mental or emotional capacity to be Method Acting all the time in public
dude this is a problem across all professional and non professional work in america. no one is serious about shit. and the people who are real are working the most fulfilled while those faking are the most miserable even though we live in the "best country in the world".
Remember the time when you could go to the airport and see a drop-kick or DDT on any given day of the week?
Taker remembers what Vader did to that reporter 😂
Someone asked though it wasn't like he flat out said wrestling is fake.
I really appreciate what Jim has said in the past about guys in the old days who’s "gimmicks" where to be a nutter but that’s actually who you believed they where, they weren’t just acting like some crazy movie character who they mark out to like the boys of today. That’s why I think we need more nut cases in wrestling today (to a certain extent of course).
anyone who is smart enough should not let wrestling manipulate them its a work theres lots of things even back in the day that exposed whether its the moves and the opponent helping them and promos etc the best thing mark calaway did was when he did start talking towards the end to prove it is a work and when jim says wrestling is not acting it is theres many things that proves it. kayfabe should have never existed like eddie mansfield said.
its funny that jim said reality tv, when for years they were doing a better job of upholding keyfabe than the wrestling business. then even after they've had their business exposed, they're doing a better job of keeping their gimmicks alive so that people believe the personalities even though the shows are edited and produced to the point that it's all a bunch of bullshit.
Imagine Stone Cold in his prime vlogging about his next match and how much he likes working with his opponent or Kane, again in his prime, doing an interview about a day in the life of Glenn Jacobs and howbhe trains. The point is wrestlers today have no idea how to sell something because they do not put the effort of playing with disbelief and the need to be on social media doing videos all the time.
Austin did a press conference after WM14. And on Stern I think he talked about who he worked with.
This is a straight shot at bray Wyatt a few weeks ago after taker appeared with him he goes on the radio and praises it
A good example of Glenn driving Percy (Paul Bearer) wearing a ski mask. When I met Shawn and Scott when they were still with the AWA, they were wearing Zubaz pants.😁
IT’S A MIRACLE! KANE CAN DRIVE! KANE CAN DRIVEEEE!
@@terminallumbago6465 Oh My GAWD he broke him in HALF!!
There was one random time in the 2010s where undertaker went on Kimmel or Fallon just to hit a tombstone and roll his eyes only time I’ve seen him in a setting like that 😂
Says the guy he will never bring his hat or coat to the ring again. Mark has been working out in a ring again
With being blinded, didn’t The Sandman in ECW go to those lengths JYD did. He would never answer the door of his home, his wife would, when going out his wife would lead him around, she would drive
I think it's just gone now an alot of the fans today wanna see how the sausage is made were as before the fans brought into the gimmicks fully an today fans are interested In the behind the scenes of the shows etc an it's just the times we live in with social media
You mean the mayor of Knoxville doesn’t go around shooting lightning from his fingertips?
And to think most wrestlers used to critise Ultimate Warrior and Macho Man for staying in character and taking it more serious. Glad and happy to hear takers point of view. Taker, Warrior and Mach are legends of legends!
People really gave Bret Hart crap for that, but look what happened when that attitude gave way to "Silly and Fun". Now wrestling, especially AEW resembles a group of bratty neighborhood children running into random homes, jumping on the furniture, and making goofy faces at the homeowners who them have to chase them off.
Wrestling needs more Bret Hart and less Chikara/DDT unfunny comedy.
@@nickhughes8179 im all with you man. I watched AEW when Punk was there. But Young Bucks and the likes destroyed the fun.
@@vycanismajoris6871 exactly. I hoped for a legitimate promotion to provide an alternative to WWE, and got a Chikara/DDT/PWG clown show.
I don't like the comedy shows because of bullshit like invisible hand grenades, invisible men, pause buttons, using The Force, mid match dance routines, Pockets, small children and family dogs scoring pins over grown adult men, or gross nonsense like anything involving that creep Joey Ryan or Kenny's pervert friends Chasyn Rance and Micheal Nakazawa.
There are limits as to what belongs on a wrestling show, and the Remedial Class Field Trip from Reseda most certainly does NOT.
In mexico chessman is working an angle with an interviewer and a lot of people believe it was legir, until someone recorded them on his phone training their future match, it's hard to keep kayfabe in real life today
Exactly what Corny is referring to, is why I miss the territory days, and the pre-1990 days of wrestling (except for the clown-i-ness (made up word) of the WWF).
It was believable that the Horsemen broke Dusty's leg.
It was believable that Lawler didn't like Kaufman.
Etc, etc, etc.
Dad bod Corny vs 2002 Taker lol, "Deadman walking, you've done it now," 😉
I don’t remember him embalming any bodies when he wasn’t wrestling. By and large he didn’t give interviews so it was a lot easier for him to stay in character also.
Killing the business with a smile on their faces
Brock is a punk. He has never beat anyone that ever had any weight on him.
The Alexa Blisses of the world are the problem that are a completely different person on social media and even put their gimmick name in quotation marks on the profile. Wrestlers wrestle in the real world in real time with interactions with real people, they can't pretend to perform in an isolated bubble. Yes, theater actors do that in front of real people but their plays are really isolated without continuity between the plays. Wrestlers need to live their gimmick, otherwise their own business has no point.
He knew the jig was up!
😂😂😂
the most insane thing he said along with the wresters now play video games and bla bla bla back in my day we road around with knives and guns , amazing! lol
For 3 or so hours I want to forget about the life I have and see guys beat the crap out of each other. I want there to be a good guy and the bad guy. And I don't want to be reminded at the end of the show that the whole thing was fake.
Sometimes there's grey areas. That's why the AE was good. It wasn't always good vs bad. It wasn't uncommon for two heels to go at it. Or faces.
None of this applies to the current wrestling scene, even Undertaker realised that when he hired a company to manage his social media even before he retired
I agree EXCEPT for Jim having issue with people wanting to have options outside wrestling.
No one wants to be a broken version of themselves, limping around conventions because they have no other choice.
Dustin Rhodes has something to say.
Welcome to why there's an outspoken portion of the community, including myself, who think biker taker was clearly superior.
Wonder why we would think that....
Limp Bizkit. That's why 😂🤣 jk
We all knew that he was big mean biker, because well he's a big biker.