How to Run D&D at High Levels: Adjusting Story & Power
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Why do so many D&D groups seem to lose steam in the higher levels? Is running Dungeons & Dragons at high level difficult? Is playing D&D at the higher levels not fun? Or is running a satisfying game of D&D at high levels just a different beast than lower levels? In this video, I discuss how to run D&D at high level, specifically explaining how to adjust both the story and power for high-level Dungeons & Dragons.
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Now here is a topic that needs more exploring among the d&d content creation community.
Fully agreed
Ya wizards is lazy. They need to do alot to make game more fun. And free cheap etc. This game could ve really advamced. Combat styles.. helping dms make fun against power players etc...
I referring to wizards of coast ..lol
I have a book for high level campaigns. It is a game changer but only for high level characters.
@@myrtislockett7792 What is it called?
As a DM, use the "fog of war" and adjust dynamically. In a battle, never have a single big monster. Rather, first have smaller monsters. As the players defeat the smaller monsters, more waves of smaller monsters can appear - hold them back behind the fog of war, so the players don't know they are there. In fact, they are in a quantum state - they are both there and not there at the same time, and YOU decide if / when / how many to bring into battle as you dynamically assess how the party is doing.
As the players are fighting the big-bad, do the same thing: Reinforcements arrive during the battle, the timing and count of which is determined dynamically by you.
Be careful once you actually place monsters on the board: Once players see a monster, the monster should be played appropriately, don't break the immersion.
Don't plan battles as something determined statically ahead of time. Always have someplace that more opponents can come from, so the players can be surprised. Your dungeons should have multiple paths, so opponents can plausibly circle back around behind the players and setup ambushes. The room where the big-bad is should always have more rooms beyond it where reinforcements could be camping. Dungeons should have multiple entrances, some of which could be discovered by players ahead of time, but others which are probably so well hidden that they can only be discovered from inside the dungeon - that gives you more options for how opponents move around.
I personally do redesign portions of dungeons from week to week, in the areas where players haven't explored yet. One week the players messed up and let the kobolds (hah!) know where they were and then the players camped in the dungeon. The kobolds proceeded to sneak around during the night and to collapse the entrances to the dungeon to trap the players, and during the week-to-week period I redesigned the dungeon they hadn't explored yet to give them a way to get out even after the collapse.
Shadversity: Yes, but what about Dragons?
DMLair: Yes, but what about Kobolds?
I like Shad as well.
Shadiversity: Very Interesting.
kobolds are no challenge for MACHICOLATIONS!!!
@@stevevondoom4140 Ah, but kobolds can tunnel.
Why not both? (Just wrote an adventure for 13-15th with them and giants)
@@DreadPyriteBob Shad's a UA-camr who happens to be a Medieval/Fantasy enthusiast. He likes to look at Fantasy tropes and see how they could be applied in a realistic setting. Case in point, fairies aren't armed with sewing needle-sized swords - no, because, due to the Square Cube Law, those fairies would carry swords that are the size of letter openers like 6 inches long compared to the average 3 inch tall fairy, either for stabbing folks in the eyes, or something like a fixed straight razor blade to make surgical cuts to vital areas that aren't well armored.
Of course, the Sidekick rules can make kobolds, and other 1/2 cr or lower monsters, NPCs and animals a potent threat for higher leveled parties.
Tucker's Kobolds were normal Kobolds, and that made them all the worse
Explain how Tucker did that please.
@@aralornwolf3140 if I recall the story correctly, tucker is a war veteran, and he played the kobolds as strategic geniuses. They designed devious and deadly traps to thwart the pcs. I don't know the whole story, but basically he used tons of traps and his expansive military knowledge to create a terrifying house of horrors for the players.
@@aralornwolf3140 It was a different game in a different time, where spells had more math involved in them, and monsters had skill and feat budgets to work with. Tucker's Kobolds had small tunnels, so that spells like fireball would have their concussive blast be channeled to hit the party too. Lightning bolt would bounce between walls, frying the kobolds on the way out, the way back, then your party until it bounces off the wall behind you and hits you again.
The kobolds took up formations with twin shield users in front to provide cover for the crossbow sharpshooters behind them. The kobolds would engage the party at range, fire off a volley and flee. Pursuit would lead the party into some horrible trap with absolute certainty, which the kobolds themselves would avoid by taking small hidden side passages that are sized for small creatures. Fleeing the kobolds had a high (but not complete) chance of bringing the party into a room doused with oil, where portcullis slam shut over the doors and burning debris fall from the ceiling.
Basically, use the most viscous and devious part of your brain to think up the most effective traps to kill intruders. Use your head and mastery of the rules to justify giving the kobolds every chance to whittle down the player's resources while exposing themselves to the least risk of harm.
@@GuardianTactician That sounds like a Monster Hunter video game except it's the players that are the Big Monsters.
@@aralornwolf3140 Tucker's Kobolds, Dragon Magazine issue 127 by Roger E. Moore - November 1987
We get letters on occasion asking for advice on creating high-level AD&D® game adventures, and Tucker’s kobolds seem to fit the bill.
Many high-level characters have little to do because they’re not challenged. They yawn at tarrasques and must be forcibly kept awake when a lich appears. The DMs involved don’t know what to do, so they stop dealing with the problem and the characters go into Character Limbo. Getting to high level is hard, but doing anything once you get there is worse.
One of the key problems in adventure design lies in creating opponents who can challenge powerful characters. Singular monsters like tarrasques and liches are easy to gang up on; the party can concentrate its firepower on the target until the target falls down dead and wiggles its little feet in the air. Designing monsters more powerful than a tarrasque is self-defeating; if the group kills your super-monster, what will you do next - send in its mother? That didn’t work on Beowulf, and it probably won’t work here.
Worse yet, singular supermonsters rarely have to think. They just use their trusty, predictable claw/claw/bite. This shouldn’t be the measure of a campaign. These games fall apart because there’s no challenge to them, no mental stimulation - no danger.
In all the games that I’ve seen, the worst, most horrible, most awful beyond- comparison opponents ever seen were often weaker than the characters that fought them. They were simply well-armed and intelligent beings who were played by the DM to be utterly ruthless and clever. Tucker’s kobolds were like that.
Tucker ran an incredibly dangerous dungeon in the days I was stationed at Ft. Bragg, N.C. This dungeon had corridors that changed all of your donkeys into huge flaming demons or dropped the whole party into acid baths, but the demons were wienies compared to the kobolds on Level One. These kobolds were just regular kobolds, with 1-4 hp and all that, but they were mean. When I say they were mean, I mean they were bad, Jim. They graduated magna cum laude from the Sauron Institute for the Criminally Vicious.
When I joined the gaming group, some of the PCs had already met Tucker’s kobolds, and they were not eager to repeat the experience. The party leader went over the penciled map of the dungeon and tried to find ways to avoid the little critters, but it was not possible. The group resigned itself to making a run for it through Level One to get to the elevators, where we could go down to Level Ten and fight ‘okay’ monsters like huge flaming demons.
It didn’t work. The kobolds caught us about 60’ into the dungeon and locked the door behind us and barred it. Then they set the corridor on fire, while we were still in it.
‘NOOOOOO!!!’ screamed the party leader. ‘It’s THEM! Run!!!’
Thus encouraged, our party scrambled down a side passage, only to be ambushed by more kobolds firing with light crossbows through murder holes in the walls and ceilings. Kobolds with metal armor and shields flung Molotov cocktails at us from the other sides of huge piles of flaming debris, which other kobolds pushed ahead of their formation using long metal poles like broomsticks. There was no mistake about it. These kobolds were bad.
We turned to our group leader for advice.
‘AAAAAAGH!!!’ he cried, hands clasped over his face to shut out the tactical situation.
We abandoned most of our carried items and donkeys to speed our flight toward the elevators, but we were cut off by kobold snipers who could split-move and fire, ducking back behind stones and corners after launching steel-tipped bolts and arrows, javelins, hand axes, and more flaming oil bottles. We ran into an unexplored section of Level One, taking damage all the time. It was then we discovered that these kobolds had honeycombed the first level with small tunnels to speed their movements. Kobold commandos were everywhere. All of our hirelings died. Most of our henchmen followed. We were next.
I recall we had a 12th-level magic user with us, and we asked him to throw a spell or something. ‘Blast ‘em!’ we yelled as we ran. ‘Fireball ‘em! Get those little @#+$%*&!!’
‘What, in these narrow corridors?’ he yelled back. ‘You want I should burn us all up instead of them?’
Our panicked flight suddenly took us to a dead-end corridor, where a giant air shaft dropped straight down into unspeakable darkness, far past Level Ten. Here we hastily pounded spikes into the floors and walls, flung ropes over the ledge, and climbed straight down into that unspeakable darkness, because anything we met down there was sure to be better than those kobolds.
We escaped, met some huge flaming demons on Level Ten, and even managed to kill one after about an hour of combat and the lives of half the group. We felt pretty good - but the group leader could not be cheered up.
‘We still have to go out the way we came in,’ he said as he gloomily prepared to divide up the treasure.
Tucker’s kobolds were the worst things we could imagine. They ate all our donkeys and took our treasure and did everything they could to make us miserable, but they had style and brains and tenacity and courage. We respected them and loved them, sort of, because they were never boring. If kobolds could do this to a group of PCs from 6th to 12th level, picture what a few orcs and some low-level NPCs could do to a 12th-16th level group, or a gang of mid-level NPCs and monsters to groups of up to 20th level. Then give it a try. Sometimes, it’s the little things - used well - that count.
Oh no! Gary is being held hostage! Time for a vid on how to run a rogueless hiest/jailbreak scenario.
Yes, i want more Gary
I'm so early traps are not even prepared yet
“The goal is to roleplay good villains, not perfect and all powerful villains”
Strahd would like to have a word
Strahd is fairly weak all told. He's also very flawed as a personality.
So would Tiamat...
BiTD: I told my players that Strahd has an Intelligence & Wisdom of 18 or higher. He's smarter then I am & I'm not gonna hold back playing him that way. That got their attention.
Acererak seconds this
One funny thing about Tucker's Kobolds was that it was an example in Dragon Magazine on how to make the most of your monsters especially for high level characters
Just the video I needed, since my party is lvl 13 and it's getting kinda hard to make something challenging nowadays, wish wotc could give dms some love lol
Hah. Hahahahha This is hilariously accurate.
At Level 13 the players are famous, the NPC's should be going on quests to find the power take them on. They should get more back up, military strategy. The Players tactics are famous too. As are their friends.
The Joker wasn't the best villain because he was high level.
This was funnier when you said LVL 3. .-.
@@diversezebra6754 Ok, that is kinda funny.
There is definitely some quality advice in this video... But there's some real garbage too.
You shouldn't negate your player's choices.
If someone chooses a Paladin and that gives everyone better saves, _they deserve to save more often._
If the caster chooses fireball (especially spontaneous casters that only get a few spells known) then you had better not reduce the number of hordes.
If the crossbow fighter is tripping flying enemies, don't artificially give Hover to fliers.
Mini rant in the middle of the video! Love it. When you started talking about the parent-child analogy, I had a mental picture of goblin minions yelling 'Stranger Danger" when the PCs try persuade them to get to the BBEG. All great points!!
I still remember that one time he said "these skits have no continuity"
A great way to use low level mobs in high level play is have a powerful creature sending dozens and dozens of kobolds/goblins etc at the party full well knowing they are going to be slaughtered. It can act as a moral element to combat because the mobs are more afraid of the high level monster than the party. It also has the effect of keeping party members distracted for a round while your more powerful monsters get into position.
Challenging high level player characters is as easy as making very similar high level NPCs for them to fight. Players tend to think twice when they realize that the enemy is capable of doing very similar things back to them. I would also advise that creatures act according to their nature, culture and experience. An ooze will continue to eat/dissolve a fallen target with enzymes/acid without having to stop fighting. Animals that fight in packs or groups will tend to hit and fade, and pick off those that are alone. Flying monsters will not land unless they have too - making them some of the most dangerous opponents. Swimming monsters will tend to attack from below - like sharks, crocodiles, etc. Giants are possessed of a kind of strength that PCs simply cannot have when you consider how far they can throw boulders. A giant an simply pick up a PC in one hand and throw them straight up for the range of a boulder. Calculate that falling damage.... Or throw them into walls, trees, the water.... they will be dismissive for a reason.
Dragons are possessive of more than just that stat block. They are massive flying creatures who are as physically strong as giants and smarter than a lot of wizards. Bombarding targets with boulders, uprooted trees, or chunks of ice is not beyond reason. Strafing with a breath weapon or setting forests alight is not beyond reason. Filling a castle with poison gas from the top down is not beyond reason. Doing so after punching a whole in the roof with a boulder is just the start. In six years, I have used all of one dragon on my players and it wrecked half a castle before they brought it down. A single chimera was nearly a TPK.
Yes, I am aware of the spells and abilities of high level players. Consider that a being like a dragon, who has been alive for several hundred years, and has survived from egg to this on it's own, is also aware. That's how survival works. It will likely also have a network of spies and servants - from kobolds on up. They will be informing the dragon the entire time.
Hags make for great villains too - a shapeshifting villain who can plant a Hag Eye in the right place is capable of absolute chaos. I've done so in one campaign and it lead to a great reveal around 7th level.
Never shy away from homebrew monsters either. I ran an entire campaign around several homebrewed aberrations, and another campaign with three "Hunter" fiends who tracked the PCs (The Bound, Twisted Man and Scream Queen). Homebrew monsters and villains cannot be found in a resource, so even veteran players must be wary of the unknown. Even at high levels, they will tend to think twice when the target is an unknown quantity and has displayed powers unlike they have seen before.
Yes I’ve heard the CR is broken at higher levels.
Good video
Not only at higher levels...
There are CR 3 Monster who can wipe a level 5 party with ease... CR is a joke^^
I’ve heard it’s broken at beginner levels.
I’ve heard it’s broken at 20 years ago.
What a great video! I have been a DM for 40 years and I get so much good advice here.
I would like to add to these tips with the following:
The best way to gauge what will challenge your high level Player Characters is time and experience with those characters. By playing with them from level one to the higher oevels you see first hand what tricks, tactics and mannerisms they develope and you can tailor your game accordingly. This also includes character personalities. As you learn learn thier goals, hopes and dreams you can find rewards to tempt them with, as well as what tactics to use against them.
Look
If your players try the "your boss is expecting us" technique, you can always pull the "I expect you to dine" trope
The bbeg IS expecting them
And he loves to gloat
Or he wants to meet the party face to face in order to get inside their heads
I (and more importantly my players) are really enjoying your one shot - into the fey series of adventures. Good product. I highly recommend. Great Job.
Thank you. Currently running a tier 4 and have been trying hard to make challenging encounters that don’t take an entire session. I appreciate your change up advice because I had to do something similar recently when my PCs were starting a boss fight with a souped up Auril on her home plane of pandemonium. Though she was insanely powerful, the start went badly for her as she was fighting alone. Got through 1 round before we had to call the session, and over the week break I ended up changing the upcoming lair action to her summoning 2 death knights to join her in battle. Seemed to help and players say they have fun.
Ineed some advice. I played years ag alot. I want to dm again small groups 3 to 4. Im still green on combat and spells and rules. I cant play alot with groups but groups want me to dm. Im creative and love the game.
Should i attempt to dm ?
How l9ng should i read before i start ?
Should i play in groups to get basics?
Shouldi use modules?
I have created a campaign already 1 to 20th level with maps.. spending 40hrs on it.
Need ur advice?
Im soaking up alot online,
Most of my group will be new players too
Btw i played 5 yrs 2.0 3,5.. i read most rules 9n 5e and pathfinder. But my cimbat rules are weak..
Like basics movement spells and all character abilities.
"These orcs--which are evil, by the way--"
As opposed to Blurgthak, the town baker, who has done nothing wrong and really wants to know why he keeps getting jumped by low-level adventurers on his way back from the market.
Also, the stranger danger rant was a joy to behold.
Had a DM throw Tucker's Kobolds at us with all manner of traps, devices, and machines of mayhem. It was in an older version of D&D and it remains an event we still speak of fondly (well, more fondly than we did as they hailed down traps and damage upon us with maniacal laughter).
You killed it. My PCs always end up crazy OP and I'm so glad for this advice. Thank you! And the thing abt the 4x deadly encounter thing made me feel so good haha cause that's my PCs too 😑
Video starting: Kobolds
Me: Oh yes, Tucker's Kobolds
DM: No, normal kobolds
Me: * sad noises *
Always delivering the video i need just as I need it. Youre the best!
WotC write these rules and suggestions, but then create no epic level modules themselves. It's like they're saying "Here all, it's super easy, we promise. It's so simple, in fact, that we can't be bothered to write the material." Sure, we have a great community which has been there to write, and help other's come up with, epic level stories. The problem is, it shouldn't HAVE TO come down to the community. If WotC would come out with just one level 15-20 module (sorry, I don't count DotMM) it could serve, at least, as a starting-off point. Anyway, thank YOU for taking the time to discuss this.
True sight is your friend against a party with a pact of the genie warlock with a pact of the chain imp (which can fly while invisible and reasonably open doors) who is a high enough level to take the whole party into their genie ring and order the imp to carry it to the boss room.
*Awesome video about a subject that really needs more support in the D&D community and Content .*
*All your advice in this video is solid ( not all the solutions for each issue ) .*
*But still all around good to great advice .*
*Note : We really do need more Paragon ( 10 to 20 ) level support .*
*As well as Epic ( 20 to 30 ) level content ( all kinds ) .*
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
*At some point in the future .*
*I'm most likey going to do a tier list for all the UA-cam D&D channels .*
*Note : DM's lair , Dungeon Dudes , Web DM & Seth Shorkowsky ( and others. ) are high on the list .*
DM's lair and Web DM for the win. Taking 20, XP to Lv 3 also
@@danielpayne1597
*Yes I'm aware of Taking 20 & XP to level 3 .*
*An they are both good .*
*But not in the same way and/or level as the ones i listed .*
*XP to level 3 is more D&D entertainment .*
*An taking 20 is more basic to mid level information + VTT gaming info .*
*Note : just with D&D UA-camrs , I'm subscribed to close to a 100 of them .*
*An have watched 1,000s of videos .*
*There are easily over a half dozen basic types of D&D channel .*
Running CoS and I know my players Strhad isn't getting much of a change just a tweak of his spells. Now he does have a few magical toys that I plan to have fun with but if they defeat him I am ready to give them to my players. They will need them when they hit lvl 20 and have a Shadow Tiamat to deal with.
I knew it, I knew the Gary was really the Rouge. Also great topic today
I knew he was the Rogue, but I didn't know he was the Rouge. My screen isn't big enough to see it I guess.
Ty for advice. I will take it to hear!
One thing to add, when you come up with a new ability to counter the players signature attack, don’t give it to everything, make them feel challenged not useless. Go I. The opposite direction sometimes. With the trip attack crossbow guy, maybe throw in what would be impossible for a regular party to beat at that level because there just to many dragons,but possible for them
Thanks for this breakdown. I've been DM'ing for about 20 years and it seems like I very rarely get to T3/T4 since most campaigns don't last that long due to typical DnD complications (scheduling, etc). Due to this, it seems like I'm stuck running T1/T2, which I'm way better doing (since I've done them over and over again), and have little experience playing or planning for the higher tier campaigns.
I could watch these videos for the skits alone! Entertaining and informative!
No holds bars - "no holding Bards" - got it!
Correct. Most bards get more than enough physical intimacy. Ask the dragon that failed its save versus seduction.
I DM 4e. I've found high success in taking end game monsters but give them thr stats of suggested monsters at this level. It gives the players the means to survive the crazy abilities but so much can now happen, that combat becomes more RP than anything else. Players have to focus on using the environment and other creative ideas to get around what's happening. Because of this I typically start them at level 7 and rarely ever actually level.
Our DM was doing this in game and was very obvious about it. We told him if he kept doing it, we'd simply go into another room to plan and the just surprise him. He didn't care for that idea.
Is it cheating?
Yes and no. And to be honest, it very much depends. Did your players just naturally 1 shot the vampire lord with their epic abilities of epicness and their sword of slaying without much effort? Or did they conserve resources and save all their best gear for that one moment with an epic clever plan?
Say the players fight their way through the vampire fortress, saving key critical resources for that one moment. Then, upon reaching the vampire lord, the bard distracts him by getting him to monolog long enough so the sorcerer casts haste on the paladian using his final 3rd level spell slot, the paladian runs up gets an auto crit with his holy avenger while using his final 4th level spell slot on a smite thanks to the nat 20 the divination wizard had saved the entire day after the grave cleric used their final path to the grave on it.
Sure, they one shot your bbeg, but they did it thanks to good strategy, teamwork, and conversation of spells/abilities throughout all the other fights. If you take away that moment by having him survive without a scratch on him, your players aren't going to remember some 'amazing fight' afterwards, they're going to remember the DM screwing them over.
Fair honestly I prefer using tricks and items then weapons or spells. One time I chocked out a dragon with a rope some climbing pitons and a rubber mallet
It's more like: The DM makes a Vampire dungeon quest (all vamps)
Then the DM forgot that they all got Sun Swords 2 months ago.
( _This group doesn't play often_ )
Everyone drove an hour to the game & have brought food.
The DM then remembers the Sun Swords.
The DM thinks "would it be worse to change things or tell everyone that D&D is canceled & offer to rent a movie"?
Indeed, sometimes being clever is better than strong weapons or spells. For instance: an arcane rogue takes out an immovable rod. Next, takes a held action that when the dragon opens its mouth to roar/breathe fire, mage hand the rod down its throat and press the button. Let's see how a dragon can fight without moving its neck/head or else rip a big hole in its neck. If nothing else, it could at least reduce the amount of fire it can exhale (reduces number of dice rolled for its breath weapon).
I really like this perspective, I do remember at some points I´ve had to edit on the fly because of similar issues. As long as your players have fun there should be nothing wrong. The only event in which I´d argue you MUST prepare the material before a fight, is if said component of the fight is an ability, item or situation that would be available to players as an option (mostly because some players care a lot for the mechanics of their possible actions).
Another tip I thought of with the last one you were mentioning (in regards to villains using spells such as revivify) is to make villains use magic items such as healing potions and scrolls as well.
I'll still toss in large swarms against a Fireball wielder so they feel effective, but half the enemies in that battle are supposed to die in the first round, while the others are spread out & more powerful, and are my actual planned encounter.
Yeah. It's like the bad guys are immoral or something. They treat their weaker troops like expendable meat shields. It's like they're gosh darn evil.
17:10
You just HAD to give them the power of “opening the blinds to expose sunlight” didn’t you?
19:53. Yes. High level PCs are unkillable. At level 14, I realized my Barbarian could literally step off a sixteen story tower, rage in mid-air, and do a superhero landing, taking negligible damage.
And I went ahead and did it for effect.
That was an awesome session.
There’s a certain point where the PCs basically are comic book characters.
True but if isent ra after ut group the barbarian would be running loke a baby. Most level14s today are like level 28 when i played in 80s. But try to take ra on .... ac is 27... approx ..hps 700. No magic hurts him. He has powerful slaves.. he has powerful friends. Hecowns magical artifacts a boat that flies. His spellss level 9.. his rod and rays do 2 to 400 damage.. have ur dm put him on your party.. lololol
Level 14s today are way powerful. So give them a tough match.. just idea and point...
Level 14 monsters get creamed by levelt 14 groups i find and notice..
Have fun tell ur dm to add more powerful battles at ur characters..
@@joeharvey5556 yeah, but Ra is literally a god. The point is that by the time you're that high level, you're having tea with gods, not trying to kill them.
@@erikkennedy8725 yes but im hearing characters are too powerful..so monsters and the like must be used. I agree its a god but if ppl are walking through arch liches something is wrong. Either to much cheating or gameplay is not correct. I agree with u but u could modify and use a lesser god or ras son. Lol 5 characters at level 30.. 5e 15..could probably have fun. Just ideas ..
When we played most cr monsters were anti magic so strong the party would be ripped apart. I feel dms still d9nt run hugh levels properly..
Eldrich blast wish etc are usueless against a dragon who easily could teleport away... comeback ... counterspell etc...
Plus some high level monsters are immune to most basic magic. So wizards are out and hitpoints of over 450 would keep a party wailing for 4 hours not to memtion summoning etc etc.. no party should be able to walk through these monsters ..
But what do i know i dont tons anymore ...
I used to play alot ...
I had so many low level dungeons and bad dms i quit...lol
This game is fun.. hope u enjoy and make those cheaters powergamer start rolling stats in front of you.
No players should have more than 1 18 up to level 12...
All other rolls should be average,. There js way to much cheating ...
I did a test roll for level 1 3 months ago and after 40 rolls i never had more than 4 characters with an 18...
Maybe 17s...
Avg roll was 5 9 14 16 12 16..
Hope u have fun. If ur dm is bad get another group
Talk soon thanks for advice.
@@erikkennedy8725 if ur group is that powerful at level 14 then 5e is massviely flawed.. or there is alot of improper playing..
4 level 15s should be absolutely destroyed by a beholder.
So thats why i commented. Cause these monsters are powerful.. so mechanics somewhere are flawed.. i will look into 8t to see why its so easy for parties.
I will be honest.. matt mercer when he played critical role vecna made massive errors. Most of the spells they cast that series the liche would ha e laughed at.
Maybe im wrong i will co ti ue to study.
Maybe we need to talk to wozards for 6e to make new rules to keep it fun simple but hard.
Talk soon
Man, you just saved part of my campaign
I just wanna say I love your background. I mean, a green screen is cool and all, but all the books there with nice lights look amazing
My party’s level ten and I’m having a tough time making encounters challenging without going overboard. They literally took out a Glabrezu and a Nalfeshnee, simultaneously.
Remove death saves from your game and return to 2nd ed. -10 and yer dead. And if you get healed you're at 1 hp and you lose all spells and are as weak as a kitten. Fixes the whack a mole problem death saves cause.
Another similar solution I’ve seen is to give anyone who goes down a point of exhaustion.
Love this video mate ;) Good stuff... Im a first time GM doing full homebrew. So to hear that I'm doing the right things is good news! Thanks! :D
In my high level campaign the PCs killed a LT BBEG and his wife (the LT was a vampire the wife was a wizard) I knew ahead of time that the wife was going to have clone running so she'd pop back up (the party wizard even mentioned it when he got access to her spellbook). However the BBEG (their boss) is the high priest of the lord of undeath who's goal is to turn everything into undeath. So yeah right before lockdown I mentioned to the most perceptive party member that he caught a glimpse of the LT.
"It's about illusion", while doing some magic moves with the hands, hahahha!
Hi backroom Gaming here I've been a DM since I was 9 or 10 and am well into my 40s.
From experience a level 16 to 17 group can still be threaten by a group of strigen and have a threat of dying.
If there is enough the players can be over run, simple action economy. Yes that group of 4 to 6 players will win out, but the fight can be a challenge. Just as a FYI without adding anything but numbers to them.
But great video so many of these rules are spot on, I commonly run 1 to 20 adventures and they can be fun and challenging, but if done right just as fun as lower level games.
Thank you this video was a big help especially with the tiers of play
I had this undead boss that I made, 16 AC, 40 hp, zombie ability when they drop to 0hp, shriek that would make players frightend and with one hit he could do 12 dmg on average for my lvl 2 party. They were melting him so fast that on a fly i gave him regenerative ability, 2 legendary actions, multiattack and undead ranger as ally. The group was genuanly terrified of him and when they killed him, they were so happy that I didnt regret anything about buffs. So imo it is great for a general game to make things harder for the sake of fun.
My party of four level 10 boyos just beat a pit fiend. It was rough, but they made it out without any player deaths due to good rotation and battlefield control. APL; 10 CR; 21. And I did use the summon abilities on top of already having the "arena" ringed with crossbow laden guards.
On the flip side I almost tpk'd a party of five level 1's with three orks because they only had one ranged weapon among them and decided to openly engage the orks at 300+ feet. They only lived because the orks ran out of javelins and got thoroughly bloodied before melee ensued. Honestly, really solid level 1 roleplay.
Every DM should look up the top 100 things to do as an evil overlord. That covers most of the stupid ploys like 'we work for the boss.'
Tier 4 is totally broken. In the climax of my recently ended camapign (the only one in almost 40 years that has actually got to 20th), the level 19 eldritch knight soloed Baphomet in less than 3 rounds. In the same battle, the wizard, who had been really looking forward to using Shapechange, was disappointed to realise they were more powerful as themselves than as an ancient red dragon. In fact, the only real threat to the PCs was their npc wizard ally who got Dominated by the cult leader and was casting Blight and Finger of Death at them.
It doesn't help that high level combats also take hours to run (the one above took 1.5 5 hour sessions).
In the next campaign I'm going to try to rectify it by going old skool and capping PC hit dice at 9 like 1st and 2nd ed. Othewise, the only way of solving it is having slooow level-ups and ending the campaign around 14.
Nice work on the video!
I'll never forget the time my group killed the BBEG but didn't bother to do anything about his priesthood and they ended up resurrecting him and the PCs had to fight him again except he knew their tricks and was way more prepared. The look on their face when they heard his voice and laugh again followed by the immediate realization on their faces of their folly. Priceless.
This would actually be a good video for new old-school DMs using the Rules Cyclopedia or retro-clones with a similar all-in-one-book format. Someone learning to play with the old boxed sets got this implicitly from what was covered in each box -- that is less true if everything is together or else divided on in a non-level-based way.
Man, I really appreciate you.
The Greatest Letdown I've ever had during a session, is when the DM "cheated" and gave the Big Bad Special Abilities that didn't fit The World (one-shotted a PC [with prior consent], without a roll, and Plane Shifted away the same round).
So if you're going to "cheat" to make an encounter harder mid-session... make sure to do it in a "balanced" manner...
Oh nice! I was looking for info on this just the other day!
One of the things that help make combat encounters difficult at higher levels is making sure the enemies abilities synergize with each other, but not reliant on each other. This is the best way to "counter" PC's abilities because they too, are synergizing their abilities they got and making their previous abilities more optimized as they figure out better and better strategies
PC: I work for your boss let me in!
Minion: Ok. Here's the waiting room.
PC: Thanks!
Minion: *pulls lever*
Maybe I'm cheesing my game, but I give flying creatures (enemy or pc) the chance to right themselves midair when hit with a trip attack. The height from the ground determines the difficult, closer to the ground is harder due to the lack of space you have to right yourself. You'll lose altitude, but you might not hit the ground.
The CR System is broken because it doesn't correctly account for the Party's CR rating, essentially. It's good though if you use it as a scale, and keep track of encounters as you go so you know you can throw that 4x Deadly encounter at this party.
It's a scale, and as with any scale, it needs to be recalibrated once in a while. (Something that should probably be said in the DMG)
If you wish to increase the challenge rate of any fight Consider giving your bad guys items The bad guys should be able to throw nets, drop caltrops and so on. You can also do the same thing for the boss give them a really cool epic artifact or item. Consider doing combo attacks Such as Entangling the party Or web or whatever else Then follow up With something like a breath attack They have disadvantage on this save Not once did I take away from any players Ability They still do what they do but the bad guys and the encounters Are getting more dangerous. These are the things I consider When cranking up the Encounters.
Holy cow, these skits are getting serious!
Considering the point of "nerfing the characters" Taking 20 did a great video about it where he said how he makes the challenges way too hard but doesn't takle the weaknesses but the strenghts of the PCs. Like: your wizard can deal with hordes of Goblins. But what about 200 of them? That way you can still feel accomplishment but it is still challenging because of the scope of the battle. It feels awesome to kill whole armies and feels appropriate for the players powerlevel instead of going full Elder Scrolls "the crabs are level 50 now and got twice as big".
TIME TO CREATE MY HOMEBREW MONSTERS SPECIFICLY FOR THEM
Thanks you so much! I really needed this
Desolated describes an event in the past, desolate describes the current condition.
D&D 5e: you're masters of the world.
D&D 2e: You have your own nation.
One of these things is just a better game
I'd replace those "don't do this too much" by being more explicit about what "too much" means. "Too much doesn't mean "don't make the enemies too powerful" or "don't make the villains too smart". It means "don't make the enemies always powerful in all the specific ways that negate the PCs' abilities", "don't make the enemies just bags of counterspell", "don't make the villains always be exactly prepared for the exact getup of the party", "don't make the lairs just a bunch of antimagic fields".
I'd also recommend a couple additional things if you're going to adjust enemies on the fly:
Firstly, try to adjust its tactics and/or make its environment more advantageous before you adjust its stats and abilities; it won't even feel like cheating if someone catches up, although it's harder to pull off, so nobody should blame you if you decide to go the other route. Secondly, remember any adjustment to stats and abilities you did make. You'll need them next time to keep consistency, or you *may* need to come up with explanations as to why they were a one time thing. Unless your group is one of those who are so focused on the grind that they just keep forgetting everything that isn't victory and loot, in which case do as you please, they won't notice.
1:25 biggest plot twist of 2021 calling it now
I have found that making the encounters too powerful at higher level and just sandbagging some abilities is an easy way to adjust. If something does end up too easy, Ill normally add in some big heal or something that helps. If they players just roll good or use good tactics let them have their thunder as long as its not anti climactic
“Use cities in the clouds for levels 17-20” me: “they already did that around level 7”
I found that the "Kobold Fight Club" (Yip Yip) website is useful as an entry level combat building tool, but, yeah, once your players get higher level and have plenty of swag you get a little more flexibility. But always respect the action economy!
I've told some of my players, that as a DM, I will metagame (but not as a player). Those players complained, and I explained it to them that I do it in order to keep the game challenging (not impossible!) because I do want anyone (players and myself) to be bored.
I am a DM for 4 (now) level 5 players. When they were level 2 and 3, they had very high AC's of 17 and 18. I made the encounters deadly and they still won 😅
If there is one thing I liked about Tomb of Annihilation is that ressurection spells don't work.
Regarding #4 of making "just in time" changes to the dungeon/bosses... IMO it's really worth noting that there is a thin line between a DM making change due to a design oversight and a DM making changes because they're upset the players outsmarted them.
Maybe I'm underestimating your audience, but I feel it's important to highlight that boundary, both so that prospective DMs taking the advice don't go too far, and so that players don't think you're invalidating their issues with toxic DMs.
A large part of the game relies on the player's trusting the DM. I think alterations on the fly can be made - and sometimes are necessary - but they should definitely be kept MINIMAL because you risk undermining that relationship which is very important.
In the doors example, I think you could add doors throughout, but you shouldn't add many. You should break the areas down into large sections with doors separating them. Let them see several rooms per section.
I'm still waiting for any of my groups to get high enough to face my gnoll warband. A full pack with Hunters mounted on giant hyenas with flesh gnawers strike team riding tandem, a few ranks of regular gnoll infantry with pet hyenas, about 3 witherlings, two or more chieftains to run the attack groups, and a Flind surround by gnoll flesh gnawers, giant hyenas, and a shaman with his Sheenosuva and summoning maw demons every even round. Moving at a steady pace toward the town, burning homestead after homestead on the way.
Even the versions of this that I've looked at with just one or two of each creature is a lot. The full war band is ridiculous, even though most of the members are CR 1/2 to 1, and the highest is 9.
You get a sub just for that amazing sketch 😂
Fighting Kobolds at 16th level? Welcome to Dragon Mountain.
I think Gerald of Riva is a decent example for a lvl 15 or upward character
Very timely video - I shudder to think what will happen when my currently Level 6 characters (Ranger, Paladin, Circle of the Moon Druid, and Wizard) get to ~10th - as it is, two weeks ago they took on 2 'Hard' encounters, and 2 borderline 'Deadly' encounters back-to-back and I don't think they even got damaged - 2 Trolls, gone in 3 rounds...4 Gnolls + an Abominable Yeti were gone in 4 or 5 rounds, IIRC. They're gonna meet a new BBEG this week, but I'm struggling to know what to stock the Dwarven Fortress with, but avoid outnumbering them 2-1 and out CRing them 3-1 and not risking a TPK.
BTW - my 8 yo daughter plays the Wizard and my wife the Paladin - TPK puts Daddy in the doghouse for a loooooooooong time!
Thanks for the tips as my players have decided to destroy my mind this campaign, I have a open hand monk, vengeance paladin, totem barbarian, eloquence bard, life cleric, swashbuckler rouge, and a moon Druid 😭🤣
As for the Technike of claiming to work for the Villian, my Curse of Strahd group actually has been able to get away with it because Strahd has forced them to work for him. At one point what I intendet to be a forshadowing of how strong Strahd is nearly led to a TPK when the players refused to back down. After all but two PC's where in negative hitpoints I made a cliff hanger and talked to the players. By the next session we had agreed to save the characters by having them bow to Strahd, some being turned into Werewolfs other Vampires and our Tiefling embracing his fiendish linage using the rules from the Grimmhollow Campaing guide. It made for a really interesting change in the game dynamic as Strahd ordered them to Bring Ireena to Castle Ravenloft. On the way they stoped the Druids of yesterhill from summoning winter splinter supposedly in the name of Strahd. It also allowed me to show them the consequences of their action as they backtracked and showed what happened because they left quests unfinished before. Finding Ireena and her borther imprisoned by the Burgermaster of Vallaki and Isaac or the Village of Barovia completly wiped out by a Zombie plague they could have stopped at two points in the game but moved on instead.
A big revelation on the topic of Gary the inturn.
I love your rogue character. Staby staby...
11:41 me, from the future: your trust was misplaced. :(
Fun fact - thanks to Tasha's Cauldron of Everything, one can use the Sidekick's section to sup up those 1/2 or lower cr monsters and npcs, and make them a threat dangerous enough to give a dragon reason to pause in surprise when a whole lot of town guards, scouts, bandits, lizardfolk, orcs, and other supposedly low-level threats show up when it attacks their town, only for this dragon to realize that these fellas, and their mounts, have been level grinding.
Ancient Black Dragon: (Sees about a dozen foes, and their mounts) You're only cr 1/2 apiece you know. One breath attack, and you're all dead.
Town Guard: Time to redefine that number. We're each Level 15, including the horses we rode in on.
AB Dragon: (Does the calculations.) How?
Orc: Sidekick training. We're almost as good as those Adventurers now.
AB Dragon: What do the vampires have to say about this?
Lizardfolk: They've started to stay home at night now. Especially since we now have these lovely Sun Blades and other magical weapons.
AB Dragon: Um, I'm going to leave, for now.
Town Guard: Wait until we hit Level 20! We'll be tougher then!
I wonder if the vampire lord with his own demi plane example who can be one shot by three artefacts is a slight against Curse of Strahd.
I've never personally DM'd a DnD game, let alone a high level one, but I really would like to try some time. I love looking through Pathfinder's bestiary at all the fantastical and terrifying creatures that I think would be a lot of fun to pit against players in an epic adventure.
Pathfinder 2e?
I'm gonna be against the grain here and say that the CR system is actually not that bad at high levels, as long as you keep the 6~8 encounters per day rule. Maybe not every dungeon will bring your players to the brink of death, but it will certainly drain almost every spell slot and feature along the way. Also, it's actually not that hard to have that many encounters a day. Have a dungeon with more than 8 rooms and you're basically set (of course, a DM should put a little more effort than this, but technically it's true). Besides, you can shrink the encounters a bit, instead of using 6 medium/hard encounters, have 4 hard encounters and a deadly one and you should get similar results.
First traps, and now this?
You gotta be watching me make my most recent game for all these conicidences to make sense.😆
"if pcs can come back from the dead, so can villains."
Did this in my current campaign. The players are fighting the drow, and at the head of it all is their matron mother, essentially a 20th level cleric. My players have a nasty habit of not dealing with the bodies of people they kill (not that that would matter much to a 20th level cleric anyway, but I digress), so she has brought back multiple lesser villains that now the party has to fight all in the final dungeon. When they first encountered just ONE of the revived enemies, they flat out dissected her to make sure her body was unusable.
They even realized that once they kill the matron mother herself, they would need to do something with her soul, otherwise another cleric would be able to just bring her back with high level magic. So they essentially decided to use a permanent Variant of the soul cage spell, with the power of a warlock patron, and the sacrifice of the warlocks freedom essentially.
Just make a specific enemy identifiably counter an ability and the baddie has advanced with the characters skills without keeping them from thinking fast and taking him down.
My players do groan when they notice a foe with those advances. Since I usually describe them by scent, it’s always a stop and sniff moment, even in combat.
Playing D&D is very much like playing an alpha or beta test of something. You know things need work so you tweak them. There's a big difference in changing enemy stats on the fly in order to "win" (which shouldn't be the DM's goal, you summon a Terrasque, GG I guess) or to create the right kind of gaming experience for the players.
DMs often have to adjust on the fly. Why not the players, also?
I really enjoyed that video (even as an old guy DM) No offense tho, but I always find it amusing that this younger generation of DMs are going thru the same challenges that us older DMs went thru back in the 70s, 80s, & 90s. No matter what edition of TTRPG You're playing the challenges are usually the same at higher levels. Except for one thing:. RPGs usually have to get more complicated at higher levels due to resources available & managing those resources.
But Luke! Players don't want a challenge! The whole idea behind 5E is to make all character classes to be identical, super powerful, and as video game like as possible. The only challenge in 5E is in the roll of the dice, and that's why people play it.