Not All Hot Air Stations Are Same!
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- NOTE: A viewer asked a great question: "Are the stations the same power in WATTS?".
The answer: NO. The one with the fan is 700W, and the one with the piston pump is 600W. So the better performing one is actually weaker in WATTS. I completely forgot to say that in the video, I'm sorry.
Sorry about not uploading for a while. I got a new job and the adaptation period didn't really allow me to focus on UA-cam at all. I'm back now and I've just finished editing some of the videos I've made a while ago. This is the first one.
The fan version does its job very well for non-intense applications.
It remains affordable for non-professionals.
Exactly, as someone fixing their own phones and GPUs at home, it works well enough.
I'd completely agree! I've got one and it does everything I need it to do! And I've used mine in anger as well it did very well!
A fan speed setting of "six, whatever that means" immediately invalidates any test if one doesn't know the L/min output at the nozzel for the setting(s). There is no way to determine how a setting of "six, whatever that means" affects the air output from different designs, so it could be your setting rather than anything related to the pump type that is causing one to take longer than the other.
Example: Perhaps one needs a speed setting of 8 on the one unit to provide the same air volume output and temperature as a speed setting of 6 provides with the other unit.
True
Not to say that we also don't know how accurate the temperature display is
...but this one goes to eleven..😂
I just did a quick research.
On Amazon and other multiple websites, I found the same details: the Baku 858a claims a maximum 120l/min airflow with that fan. (I guess it's a standard 4020 blower fan)
Instead of that, in the Baku 701b specification, they wrote "just" 0.3-24l/min. Very interesting.. I believe not just the air flow, but the pressure also matters. The huge difference is that, if anything obstructs the airflow,(you must keep close enough to the component) the fan version immediately will reduces the airflow, until the (diaphragm) pump version still will press trough the same constant amount of air just with higher pressure.
(Because both knob can set from 0-8, in both case we can expect 75% airflow if both set to 6. The conclusion is, the pump version truly gives you 18l/min airflow even there is some resistance from the MB and the FET, however the 90l/min expected from the fan version is totally false in any condition.)
@@budavaril Thanks much for sharing your research and analysis!
if the slower one is considerably cheaper and only going to be used once in a while then whats the issue
Seems to be an increase in price of rework stations, well in Canadian dollars they are $130+ with a hose connection. Most that I see under $80 are ones that use a fan. What my take away from this is... if I am not going to be doing professional work for others and just need to replace an analog stick on a controller when they wear down every 3 months or so, the cheaper option for heat guns would be fine and get the job done(just not as efficiently).
I can see why one would need a better equipment if they are working with fixing electronics regularly for their work or hobby. Time is their limiting factor of how much work can be done in a day. More work done = more money or more learning depending on the skill level.
I purchased one with fan in the handle from Amazon. Worked it good when I first got it just practice desoldering parts, died in less than 2 weeks. Returned it, spent a little more and got one with the fan in the main unit. So much better and hasn't left me down yet. I suggest if you do buy one, work it hard the first 2 weeks to make sure it holds up and you aren't out of the return period.
Which one did you return and which one did you replace it with?
@@rodiona8781 One I returned was Prostormer 120V Digital Display Heat Gun with 3 Sets Stored Temperature and Sleep Mode which was about $50. Replaced it with Aoyue 852A++ Digital SMD Hot Air Rework Station which was about $130. This was back in 2022.
@@rodiona8781You got eyes or not?
The fan type unit pushes more air than you will ever need for standard electronics work.
You don't need to blow the part off of the board.
True, but with one caveat: if using the smallest nozzle, the cheap one will not have enough air flow to desolder an SMD resistor. Speaking from experience.
@@RolandV3922 That's not the case at all.. It will still have more than enough airflow to blow the whole part off of the board.
I'd check that you're not blocking the air intake with your hand.
Try doing larger BGAs with it
@@NicksStuff Again, there is nearly too much air speed.. The temperature is no different either. This is no different to the cheap vs expensive soldering iron thing.. they both supply heat through a tip. Just some have more features and are nicer to use. They will both do the same job.
@@ryanokeefe12 Can you show us how you reball a chipset with the cheap unit?
Why do you want so much air to push through? Do you want to blow your components off the moment the solder melts?
You can regulate that without a problem. More air volume carries more heat to the components.
More air volume doesn't necessarily mean more air pressure (air pressure is dependent on the diameter of your nozzle - the smaller the diameter, you'll generate more pressure to push the same volume of air through it, unlike with the larger nozzle).
My point was that the fan isn't pushing the same volume of air efficiently through the nozzle, like the vacuum pump would (most air pushed by the fan can "bleed" through the handle).
It depends, over here the professional kind with the integrated pumps/large blower fans are a LOT pricier than the little fan handle ones. The fan handle ones also get a lot better than the 858a/858d clones. I just got a Yihua 959D-II after my no-name brand 858d bit the dust and i'm very pleased for the occasional use i give it.
To sum it up, the fan handle kind is absolutely fine, as long as you're not doing this as a career so there's no time pressure. It just takes a bit longer.
Wow, thank you it was a big learning - now i know what i want for X-mas. Greetings from Germany.
You have to make sure the inlets for the fan never become blocked with dust. It's happened to me. The element overheats and burns through the mica insulation, then shorts on the metal shroud, so turning it on trips your circuit breaker. Fortunately mica insulation sheets are cheap as dirt, but it's still a problem you can run into. Especially at low fan speeds and if the dust is inside the fan, where you don't notice it. That's really the only reason for pistons. The fan has more air flow than you will ever need. Mine never once went above the 2 on the dial.
It depends what makes airflow fro the unit. Some usrs centrifugal fan, others membrane pump. Membrane pump makes "pops" of air that makes work more difficult (it can blow out small elements).
Honestly I find it bizarre because I have the cheaper one with a fan, and it's as fast as the faster one you have.
The one I use is Yihua 959D II rework station... and I usually set the temp to 330 C and airflow about... well, I dunno the lowest setting? since I don't have that fancy percentage option.
Probably the slower one you have needs a fan replacement... maybe?
Can you please include the link or model numbers in your description? I tried looking up Haku 701B and couldn't find that model.
It's Baku 701B - but I don't know if they're still available. When I Google them, they're unavailable on Aliexpress and Amazon.
So where does one get a "good" pump one?
Where can I buy the Baku with the piston pump in the USA?
The fan version is better for reballing chips with BGA balls.
But it can be very useful for big boards if you have a preheater.
If you have a preheater, you don't need a Air Gun with Air Pump because the main basics of working on big PCB boards is that you always have to use a preheater to preheat the full board and a minimum heat from the air gun to avoid chip destruction by heat.
For the fan version of hot air guns the 8018D is pretty good because it uses a better fan and a better fan position compared to the 858D version.
Helical and vertical wind pattern. Was told for large ics helical one with the fan one is better. Really popular in mobile cpu removal and reball.
Vertical with the piston pump is good for small components to quickly remove small smd cap before the board heats up.
Maybe their use case is important to not kill the ic due to overheating.
Just do what I did, pick up a "parts only" station that looks good and not damaged in the pictures on eBay that blows air fine but is showing a heating element error on screen. This is key though, do NOT go for anything that might have problems with the pump or power circuitry, or any unknown problems, it MUST turn on and blow air. You can get a very good deal on one of these even from the top brands. Personally, I got a Quick 881D, which is a beefier version of the 861DW with a higher max air volume and 1300W vs 1000W. Quick is considered one of the industry standard stations and praised by many reputable sources, and this particular unit goes well over $500 typically. I paid $100 after shipping. The reason I said to get one with the above mentioned fault is because the heating element in these types of stations is designed to be replaceable and it is very easy to do, its 3 screws, a plastic clip connector, and 2 pin and socket style plug in wires, that's it! The heating elements themselves are rather easily found and can be sourced from the manufacturer if that is something you care about, otherwise just buy one wherever you can find the best deal, eBay, aliexpress, etc. Straight from china seems to be cheapest from what I have seen.
Não tenho certeza, mas talvez você tenha retirado o componente com mais rapidez pois já estava quente e bem ao lado do outro que você removeu anteriormente
exatamente por muito que ele tenha assoprado a pcb ja elevou muito sua temperatura espanlhando bem o calor isso é meio caminho andado para remover o outro mosfet que ele ainda por cima escolheu ser ao mesmo lado do outro se ele tentasse remover o 2 mosfet com a mesma pistola de ar que removeu o 1 seria bem mais rapido que o primeiro outro erro é não usar o fluxo pastoso que ajuda e muito a remover os componentes.
Ele diz no começo que ele iria deixar esfriar para tentar novamente com a outra pistola
so turn the first one up to 9 then
few more things: as the heating element gets older it will be less efficient. the huge flow of air is useless for most if not all small components, when you need to put them back. the most important thing is the constant temperature of the airflow and the accuracy of the temperature meter. more power in WATTS = more power in removing components.
Yes. For the heating element you are completely right. Since the age of the heating elements is about the same, it makes no difference here.
But, since air is the heat delivering medium, flow is really important. More air flow = more heat delivery. So it's really not meaningless. Every calibrated hot air station would be able to recover the lost heat quickly, but the point is heat delivery.
If you're hinting at high air pressures being useless (you're right there), there are two great options for any beginners reading this: use a smaller nozzle and turn the airflow down a bit (smaller cross section would increase the pressure to much at the same air flow), or use the same nozzle but move the heat gun away from the board a bit.
@@milanfixer but the cheaper one seem to be heavily used and old and the other one seem to be new? try to check the actual air temperature if you can.
@@WebMonster-jf6eq It was used only 6 times, before I bought the more expensive one. It looks "heavily used" because the air delivered to the heating element was never enough to cool down the nozzle and thermally balance it.
Yes. I calibrated them both with a thermocouple, they both deliver a stable temperature (+-5°C).
The real reason I made this video is to help everyone save time soldering and desoldering chips using hot air.
If you are really so skeptical, buy both of them, calibrate them and try them for yourself. They're both only 90$ and you can always resell them if you don't like them. You'll soon realize why the most prominent repair youtube channels (Louis Rossmann, NorthridgeFix, theCod3r etc.) use 200+$ piston pump hot air stations with 1 inch thick hoses.
He also uses at least one Rosmann of Flux
I bought recently a rework station which has soldering iron and hot air gun operating from a variable central unit. The reason I chose it, is the design is totally modular, either part can be switched on and off independently, has a clear and somewhat accurate gauge to indicate temp and power, the iron and gun are replaceable and the iron uses standard current tech tips so functionality all the way and repairability all the way as well. I actually now run this in a trinity with my other two irons, I have my heavy duty Lidl Parkside mains powered with a thick chisel tip, I have a variable Katsu solder station with a medium cone tip and the rework with a microfine tip plus have on the way a crows beak tip for them hard to reach places. As for the gun, yes it is the fan type but it does the job and replacement elements and fans are easily found so again the repairability, heck its cheap but does the job and I flux up on removing stuff as the flux really helps spread the heat under the area worked on :)
I have the 858 hot air. I modded it to have a higher airflow. I had just replaced the 27k resistor with 18k on the tip31 speed controller inside the control board. The standard voltage of the fan is about 5 to 6v that's to low for a better airflow. Now after modding i get around 9 to 10v and it do pretty well.
Thanks for the info. Very helpful. 🙏
this true I just replaced my old one and my new one works so much better.
whats the actual model number of the piston pump one
Where are you buying these stations at the prices you quoted?
Nice video!
Question,
whats the model for the Baku piston pump version? I might look in to it.
BAKU Model: ba-942E
Cant find anything but the fan in handle ones unless i spend $120+ USD
I'd like your opinion - which would you own if you could only use one or the other of these two hot air tools. The Quick 957dw+ or the YIHUA 959D please?
Definitely the Quick! 😊
@@milanfixer Thanks. All I could afford was the Yihua . I'm hoping to use it for dc jack removal, which i will do rarely. I have a Dell Latitude AIO 5490 that has a bad dc jack that I plan to replace using the 959d. Other than that I might do a rare dc jack replacement on a laptop. Think it will do the job? Thanks!
@@timmyinthewell1 Oh definitely, my friend! It will do the job just fine. It will also serve you well, because you'll use it rarely. If you plan to go pro as a technician, then you should get the better kind because it'll save you a lot of time 👍
Best of luck to you with the DC jack 🍀
@@milanfixer Thanks so much for your videos and your guidance!
The baku piston will not last longer, I have experience using both for decades and often changing the baku piston head nose
Did you calibrate the temperatures?
Thanks for the info it helped a lot.
How about cutting more air slots on the handle?
That could work, I guess 🤔. I just didn't want to bother with that.
@Discord-Serwis_Elektroniki_PL Thank you for sharing mate. That could definitely work 👍
Is there one that you recommend that is available for purchase?
Not the exact same model. But cheap models working on the same principle, yes. Just Google around, you'll find them for sure.
Thank you for the watts information in the description. Perfect description
Greate for content. Thank you.
Would be great if you could share a link to where this could be purchased.
I would gladly do that. But this particular hot air station is unavailable everywhere I looked. Just get the one with real temp control, a wide hose and you should be fine. Don't buy the ones with fans within the handle.
@@milanfixer that's the one I wss referring to, the one with the hose. I already have one with the fan (898D)
great explanation for a newbie like me, thanks!
You do not want to be pushing to much air so it can blow all the little components as well you want as little air as possible that will do the job.
Liked and subscribed to your channel keep it up bro great work.
What's that model bro?
Thank you very much mate! It's a Baku 852 (but I recommend getting a Baku 702, if you're looking for cheap and decent 👍).
This comparaison is not revelant. You start with the RSpro and for the second the ground plane is still hot.
Thank you.
Any chance you can put up a link where to obtain the piston one
Model numbers & cost? 🤔
If its make the work this mean its good
Hey Buddy wich model is the best one ?
Thanks
Which soldering station is best for pro or bussiness purpose like fast and durable
May i know which model for the new station ? I also looking for new hot station
Quick 957dw
Piston does more volume than fan? Tell that to race engine manufactures that use turbo boost or superchargers.
He meant comparing the fan INSIDE this hot air blower specifically versus the blower piston located on the station. The hot air fan is limited to just a small size because it is located in the handle. The fan cannot compete in volume because of the inherent size limitation. No need to overexemplify his words into turbo boost or race engine which is completely different world that he is talking.
Excellent explanation
Why should i care about volume of airflow? I want to be heating, not blowing components off the board! Max air is too much on any station.
Also "a piston pump will always deliver more volume" is the funniest shit i ever heard. Because this is the design for pressure, not for volume, the 5015 fan does about 10 times the air volume. And most of that pressure is needed in order to overcome the hose air impedance. That being said that airflow is going to be much more consistent, since the small backpressure from the work being near the nozzle or from narrow nozzles isn't going to impress that pump at all, it fought worse on the way there.
Also tbh the one with the fan in the handle the real air temperature falls off the cliff if you run too much air.
If u want fast desolder than use vertical nozzle.
thx very informed video
Turn power up on cheap one
My soldering station goes to 11, so it's almost twice as good as your "expensive" model which only goes to 6.
You're absolutely correct. Can't argue with that 👍😁
Me personally don’t like a lot of air cuz it pushes smds off
you dont nee all that power the fan makes the work like the other one ots not a question of beeiong better but beeing faster
Hi thank you i love it the 858D 700 is good for me thank you🖕😀
Try this with a xfx rx 580 bro... there is a lot of copper there..
cool!
I'm Vietnamese. I just need 10 dolar for diy quick 850a. It very easy for repair and replace. I think all student learn electronics can make this. Sorry because my english. I dont learn 5 years but i can read some textbook, and i study to become a doctor (CAM).
Money makes difference
I bought one like the video for an hdmi replacement and I couldn’t get the solder to flow at max temp and max airflow nothing 🥲 looks like I need to upgrade and I’ll have a random heat gun for show
Add low melt solder, it would help
Dá próxima vez mede a temperatura dos dois com termopar
But first air gun is very very cheap and many kind of product
First air gun make possbile the volume airflow But busy my finger
😂😂😂 lol , if you are using that for MOSFETs the you should quit ... In 99% cases you need to go first step flow and 400 c ... To much air your smd's will get crazy all over the bord . And your first station can do that easy even with the fan. The answer is a good calibrated termistor in combination with air flux . Get real and stop selling crazy stufff
Can you be more concise?
I didn't get all the 400°C and the airflow being too much.
@@pwqmrvwerogru well that's the point - you don't need to much air flow unless you are desoldering all your smd's from that bord. You need to hit the MOSFET with hi temp not all your board ! Hi air flow will blow small things out from your board - you don't need (whant) that ! You whant a small MOSFET out not all the caps around it ... Think about it.
@@pwqmrvwerogru 1 . Pre heat the board 400c full air flow from a decent distance from the board. (To avoid thermall shock)
2. Concentrate hi temp @ what component you need to solder(desolder) . Low flow with nosel close (not to close) to mos, cap, or what you need ... LE: 400c is over kill that's the point were you need to trust the termistor you have ... 400c will damage components on a direct hit !
repeat the high/low potentiometer control can make the volum airflow but finger is very busy.
Did you see the video comparison? If you have only just one MOSFET to pull out quickly the piston one does much faster job.
Don't say "But it will reach 400 C and damage the component", you see it clearly when the solder already melt (which is still under 300C) he already pull out the component and stop the blowing. The issue here is time. Even professionals like Northridgefix don't need to preheat or step flow and 400C, he just immediately heat on what area it needs to pull. Too much air? Just reduce the speed. The problem with fan-type blower is that even with maximum speed it is still delivering way smaller in volume than optimal (ideal) air volume and takes much longer in time. Yes flux helps but here again this is just a DEMONSTRATION of two blowers with same treatment (both having no flux).
Totally miss leading information
That both are bull💩
give a link or a real name a part number lmao scrub
well you right , is not scientific on a pre warmed board with empirical temperatures on the machines, empirical air flow, total useless comparation
your so wrong so okay lol and where your airflow metters. more air = reducing heat element . maybe your little pump 600W is low air flow LOL so you buy new one only because you dont know reduce or put resistor in this fan speed? LOL i have reduce fan speed and this realy change my life . home made always better
You do you mate. But slowing down the fan wouldn't fix fan bleeding all around the place. I'd be very happy if you could demonstrate what you said with the flow meter (as I really don't have one) and upload the video. I'd like to know more 👍😊
A lot of electronic technician using the pump blower. All of them said, its perform better.
@@milanfixer is it Baku 850a? Or another model?
@@hairulole It's Baku 852D.
@@milanfixer I found a baku 852D+ for sale for 93euro. Its still a good option for the price? Thank you. EDIT: Its a 852D+ (Plus) model, maybe its a newer model? Thanks.
Tbh both are cheap not very good one
True. But this is one of those "choose lesser of two evils out of these two cheap tools" type of video 😂😂😂
@@milanfixer the problem with too cheap hot air station is that you create more problem than you want if you start to play with CPU or ram Chip for example. And no one can resolve the problem behind you. So I think it's preferable to invest in something more expensive at the start, compared to other tools where you can take the cheapest and have no problem ^^
Actually its not a piston inside,, its just an enclosed brushless fan, this fan handle built model had some models with brushless fan also,,, these more expensive ones have more powerful heating element in them and also their power supply play a huge part in their performance especially if they were driven by iron core transformer
One problem, I am unable to find the piston unit, everything available seems to be fan-driven!
Older tech used diaphram (piston) pump
When listening video it didn't sound like pump. Station what I have (Aoyue 2738) has clear pump sound that would have been on record. So I think both in this video is using normal fan. Blower fan in handle and bigger axial fan in station.
Thanks for the valuable info.
My Sumsour hót air with dần in the handle is a beast. I plan on getting the pump version because they are usally higher quality. But my cheapo hot air that I have used for 2 years is just fine.
It is OK, the fan version can be useful. But once you get the pump version, you'll definitely see the difference. Good luck mate 👍
1:06 this sentence is wrong - the opposite is the case. Otherwise you are right of course. But big volume instead of big pressure is always made using a fan, not a piston. The difference clearly comes down to the totally fake "700W" that are maybe 300 at best or the low air volume due to the cone shaped air path (fan hat not enought pressure)
are the stations same power in WATTS? if not, the comparison is not so meaningful
Thank you. I completely forgot to say that (I'll add that in the description). They are not. The one with the fan is 700W and the one with the piston pump is 600W. So the one that performs better is actually weaker in WATTS.
Thank you for pointing that out mate 👍😊
What about replace tips for the soldering Iron this is a major selling point if there are any replacements
I have a Yihua 952D+ with 19.5 diameter heating element, burnt out and unobtainable...anyone know where I might find one? I've checked TEMU, Allied Express, and Ebay all I can find are the 22" diameters.
That $55 station seems to be $200 now...
I cannot find a cheap (like $50-70) station with the fan or pump in the base :-(
I know what you mean. They just became unavailable all of a sudden... No idea why. In my country they are only available from local scalpers (who buy from Aliexpress and sell them for a higher price)...
If you're not in a hurry, wait a little longer. Cause they'll definitely be back.
Search for vertical wind vs spiral wind smd.
yes ofc you are right, the station with the air pump is superior, but I have pretty consistent results with the cheap one, I just make sure tu use a good flux and (if possible) I add a lower melt temp solder to the pad of the components I want to remove before blasting it with the hot air gun, and you're good to go...
I don't agree with you. like mine with fan 700w can remove bigger components like 20 second
The difference is very noticeable when using a large nozzle on a thick board.
True. But sometimes using a large nozzle is not the option. You might blow away small components of the board. Throwing away kapton tape for a small solder job is not worth it in the long run. That's why volume is key in most cases.
The funny thing is, in my country the piston pump models are actually CHEAPER (and in some cases much cheaper) than the fan based ones. It actually made me doubt my reasoning and logic as to why they selling the much better version for lesser cash.
sa7a bajra
A single "Nope" Would be enough for this vid.
True! 😂😂😂
Use the old one to make a bottom side heater with an angle 90 metal corner
oh man, I had that exact board! eons ago
BRO!!!Your THUMBS look different
😂😂😂😂😂
how much C are u using for soldering ? on left side air station? 0:38 and what is fan speed? and how much time needs to melt?
I was looking for the quality one. I just want to get it for desoldering CPU socket(PC motherboard). I dont know which one to get. which one would you recommend to use for motherboard socket desoldering?
I paid around $50 for my fan based hot air station about 1yr ago and you know what? For the little bit of soldering I do, its all I need, Its not really about the air, its more about the heat than anything, and it works fine, sure at that time the piston type was like 400% more to buy, I didn't see the need. If I was a pro or semi pro, I could see the need for it. But I'm not. :)
dude, you can achive the same by increasing the temp on the cheaper one....the key is temp not air...do you want my leaf blower? 😂😂
The models with piston pumps are very noisy. I actually stumbled upon your video while looking for modding information to replace it with a blower fan. Perhaps the same for my desoldering station and its loud pump.
Most of the times, I keep my fan based blower at half the speed. Why do I need a piston based hi-flow air blower? I want to solder components and I am not interested in deep frying them.
What is the cost difference for a hobbyist. If the nice one is 4x the price then that's where it matters too
so could we all have a model number or link to the "good" one please?
Sadly no. The particular one I have is not available anymore for some reason... I wasn't really recommending a specific hot air station, but more of a type of hot air stations out there.
Just look at the hot air gun when browsing hot air stations and just make sure that they have a hose attached to them (that they don't have a fan inside the handle) and you'll be golden 👍
@@milanfixer Thank you kindly for letting me know, best of luck with everything.
The fan version arent good to work with video card.. but its nice to work with cell smartpho e
ur doing well brooo