A simple, fair and even test to determine which is more consistently accurate... Is it TTF, or is it OTT? Whichever it is, that's what I'll use at the next tournament!
Hi Bill, wow that was a great display of unbiased tests that I would never have thought of doing. The stationary position of the sling shot was a brilliant idea and now I will shoot TTF. I'm a NEWBIE and honing my own style. Sling shots are fun and I look forward to getting deeper into the rabbit hole.
Good video Just received one of your Taurus models and love it! Ordered more bands and accessories last night. I’ll be ordering a custom scorpion or Taurus soon
Hi Bill, Joe Musselwhite here. Thrilled to see you at it again. You had a very positive impact on my shooting in the past and I thank you for this. I still have every custom SS you made me. Have a MERRY Christmas!
Bill, So much appreciate your enthusiasm in shooting, building and teaching!!! Been going back and watching many of your earlier videos and learn something every time 😎 I'm slowly converting to TTF, and just for me, it has been a much more consistent method of getting on the target. Probably helps that I use your Taurus Pro when shooting this style ;) Best ergonomic frames on the market in my opinion and I own and love many from other makers 😁 Thanks for all you do for the sport!!!
@@MasterBillHays you inspired me so much in shooting a slingshot, every time I shoot I always think all the things you taught , I wish to be liked you,. Simple and Humble and the Grand Master of Slingshot, God bless you always and your family. I'm Your No. 1 fan here in the Philippines.
Fair test, I shoot and love both and TTF has always been slightly more accurate for me too. Fantastic video, great to see new content from the person I learned my shooting fundamentals from.
I didn't think I could do it, but i now cut cards with ease using the Scorpion. I posted a few videos if you'd care to look. Thanks for being such an inspiration Bill! (and thanks for signing/ engraving my side shooter).
Thanks for the video! I wish we could see the bands release in slow-motion close-up. Theoretically, the linear force and travel going forward shouldn't deviate between the two setups.
Great content! I think it was a fair test. I'm currently only ott and pretty accurate but this makes me curious to try out some TTF. Thanks for the video Bill!
The slingshot is a simple mechanical device, has no "play" or "randomness" in it. It has no own "will" to shoot here or there. If the 2nd ball went to a different place than the 1st, then something else was different. The shooter, the ball, the wind...
I appreciate the video. My experience is that I shoot better OTT. I have both TTF AND OTT, in your frames and others and can shoot both pretty darn well. I shoot every day for over a year. I just have less issues with OTT. Frame strikes, Aiming. Especially hold over visibility. So I think that shooter comfort and confidence also plays perhaps even more importance to me in over all accuracy and shooting pleasure. This is not a criticism of the great work you do just my personal observation. PS I have 5 of your TTF Taurus, and the OTT as well. I love them. Thanks.
Interesting results. I started off shooting TTF, but I found it harder to aim on a small scale than OTT. It’s like finding the center of the bands on TTF was somewhat of a guessing game. Guess it’s not for you! Lol. Great shooting as always, Bill.
OTT certainly has asymmetric directional forces upon band release compared to TTF. These forces are at right angles to the target and possibly explain the "width" of the grouping. Could the sharp edge on most slingshots add to this factor? Could breaking the band over a larger radius change the results? I would love to see a slow motion of the release of each style.
Well, it might make a difference if one uses a pouch that is tied to the bands for TTF-style in an OTT-setup. (Since you used the same bandset for both tests, the pouch must be attached in a way that favors one of the styles...) I used bandsets on my TTF-frames that were tied for OTT - and that worked quite well. I'm not sure if it works the same the other way round. (TTF is in my opinion a more "forgiving" shooting style.) But even if the bandset used was not made for OTT, I'd be skeptical if that's the main reason for a larger grouping. BTW: I prefer to shoot TTF, simply because I feel to have more consistency that way. The path how the elastics travel is far more controllable and predictable for me than in OTT.
In the past I've tried the bandsets with OTT tied and TTF tied for each style and even switched them to the other style as an alternate scenario... TTF still won. It's like I've said before, we're all flawed shooters to some degree, TTF is just a little more forgiving. Though, I've had days when shooting either style when it seems like I just couldn't miss.
@@MasterBillHays Ok, that's interesting to hear, since I never tried OTT with a TTF-Bandset. (I don't think I will - as mentioned before, I'm not very fond of OTT-shooting.)
I have a question, I'm more accurate with ttf than ott but I shooting with jaw anchor point. Do long distance shooting with ttf slingshot when have to use butterfly style is still more accurate than ott shooting with anchor point on the face and drawn point on this ott band?
I have watched a lot of your videos over the years and have every respect for your experience, knowledge and talent. However - what you have observed in this test is that TTF is more accurate than OTT using this particular method.
Greetings, question, was it the same rubber? Was it TTF tied? Would it make a difference if you use OTT, also a latex, tied for OTT? Even pre-twisted tied up so the ball has more room when it detaches from the latex? Greetings from Germany
Hello, do you ship to Brazil? Your shopping site does not indicate this. I am from the city of São Paulo, if it is shipped, how can I track the order? I want to buy some models. Is it possible to buy different models in a single shipment? Thank you for your attention
Well, I'm guessing that the TTF approach is more natural for a rubber band when the band is released (just like the limbs of a bow move evenly and straight away from the shooter when arrow is fired). Whereas in OTT there is a slight twist of the band which makes subtle changes in tension. Since the shooting action itself is human and not robotic, and there are very subtle differences in how each element is performed per every shot (even for slingshot aces), the TTF looks a bit more forgiving than OTT in terms of consistency. However, in general, OTT is more beginner friendly in a technical sense. Thanks for the test!
I still put craters on the moon with my OPFS, Bill. The biggest one I named Mt. Darrell. Good to see ya, you old fart! Tell the missus I said hello. And thank God for Chris Ledoux! ~ Cap'n Joe
I'm a tad confused. The first test was TTF and produced a wide grouping, and the second test was OTT which resulted in a tight group and greater accuracy. So how did it prove that TFF is better?
I'm sure you tried your best,but this has to many variables to declare which is more accurate. You would need no wind, a precise machine release and thousands of shots. But I thank you for trying its an interesting video.
@@khunnation2320 I am a little more accurate with ttf from the begining but very long distance shooting is the most important for me and I thought ott is more accurate for the longest shooting
I am of the same opinion TTF is better and much more accurate. I myself use a ttf slingshot for many reasons, but I will not describe it, you will understand for yourself.
I'm confused. It seems locking the frame solid on the OTT test may have introduced some innacuracy or inconsistency that isn't there on a flexible wrist. I'm watching videos of people hitting 9 out of 10 shots on a nickel at that range, but your results show that should be impossible. Maybe you need a hinge on the base of the frame?
If the connection of the latex to the pouch is not respected, the tape twists and the bullet has less room to detach... this can cause this scattering circle. To rule it out, and to work conscientiously, I would repeat the experiment with tuned bands. Once TTF Once OTT band and tied an OTT Pre Twistet greetings Auf Deutsch Wenn die Anbindung, des Latex, an der Pouch (Beutel) nicht beachtet wird, verdreht das Band, und die Kugel hat weniger Platz um sich zu lösen... das kann mit diesen Streukreis verursachen. Um es auszuschließen, und um Gewissenhaft zu arbeiten, würde ich, den Versuch mit Abgestimmten Bändern wiederholen.. Einmal TTF Einmal OTT Band und ein OTT Pre Twistet angebunden Grüß
I won uk slingshot championship 2012 10meters .3rd place 20 meters 2013 won some archery comps. but cannot shoot short draw .shoot albatross witch is is strange. weird to think as archery is draw to the mouth I'm just strange
as fair as its going to get.. and that just made up my mind i dont ever need to shoot ott.. so i know which titan slingshot i might buy in the future... if i dont go with a gkj cast sling.. that would really solidify my fork tilting issues..
Your test was as legitimate as possible. If you were testing HAND HELD , and the SHOT GROUPINGS were in the same places, You would move your hand holding the SLINGSHOT accordingly. In closing, It was an ACCURATE Test.
It’s tough to get things absolutely perfect each and every time, but I think you done well. Thanks!
Thanks!
It’s really good to see your new video, sir! I wish you Happy Fourth🍻
Excellent comparison! I've been a TTF shooter for decades! Thankyou for the experiment!
A most interesting demonstration!!!
Thank you!
Glad you liked it!
Good to see you having some content again - thanks
You bet
Love your stuff, keep em coming Bill. 👍
Hi Bill, wow that was a great display of unbiased tests that I would never have thought of doing. The stationary position of the sling shot was a brilliant idea and now I will shoot TTF. I'm a NEWBIE and honing my own style. Sling shots are fun and I look forward to getting deeper into the rabbit hole.
Good video
Just received one of your Taurus models and love it!
Ordered more bands and accessories last night. I’ll be ordering a custom scorpion or Taurus soon
Hi Bill, Joe Musselwhite here. Thrilled to see you at it again. You had a very positive impact on my shooting in the past and I thank you for this. I still have every custom SS you made me. Have a MERRY Christmas!
Great to see you posting a video!
And thanks to you Man!
Bill,
So much appreciate your enthusiasm in shooting, building and teaching!!!
Been going back and watching many of your earlier videos and learn something every time 😎
I'm slowly converting to TTF, and just for me, it has been a much more consistent method of getting on the target.
Probably helps that I use your Taurus Pro when shooting this style ;)
Best ergonomic frames on the market in my opinion and I own and love many from other makers 😁
Thanks for all you do for the sport!!!
No one better to learn from. Dude basically wins every east coast slingshot tournament he enters.
Great video Mr Hayes i found that very interesting 👍🏼
Nice to see u again making videos, your channel is the best
Thank you so much 😀
@@MasterBillHays you inspired me so much in shooting a slingshot, every time I shoot I always think all the things you taught , I wish to be liked you,. Simple and Humble and the Grand Master of Slingshot, God bless you always and your family. I'm Your No. 1 fan here in the Philippines.
Thank you for a very informative video.
Fair test, I shoot and love both and TTF has always been slightly more accurate for me too. Fantastic video, great to see new content from the person I learned my shooting fundamentals from.
If you are having difficulty grouping your shots, all you need is a TAC Hammer, a front end loader, a vise, a clamp and a machine screw.
I didn't think I could do it, but i now cut cards with ease using the Scorpion. I posted a few videos if you'd care to look. Thanks for being such an inspiration Bill! (and thanks for signing/ engraving my side shooter).
And thanks to you Man!
Thank you for the video.
Please test the tube band slingshot, too.
Great video thanks!
Thank you too!
Thanks for the video! I wish we could see the bands release in slow-motion close-up. Theoretically, the linear force and travel going forward shouldn't deviate between the two setups.
Great content! I think it was a fair test. I'm currently only ott and pretty accurate but this makes me curious to try out some TTF. Thanks for the video Bill!
I'm in the same boat. I'm worried about hand hits but want to try TTF now.
You shouldn't get any hand hits if you have already got pretty good with ott! You got this go for it!
interesting results.. correlates with what I feel when I've shot both.
Hello Bill I wish you have a video using your new custom adjustable Taurus TTF Slingshot, a shooting practice love it so much.
The slingshot is a simple mechanical device, has no "play" or "randomness" in it. It has no own "will" to shoot here or there. If the 2nd ball went to a different place than the 1st, then something else was different. The shooter, the ball, the wind...
I appreciate the video. My experience is that I shoot better OTT. I have both TTF AND OTT, in your frames and others and can shoot both pretty darn well. I shoot every day for over a year. I just have less issues with OTT. Frame strikes, Aiming. Especially hold over visibility. So I think that shooter comfort and confidence also plays perhaps even more importance to me in over all accuracy and shooting pleasure. This is not a criticism of the great work you do just my personal observation. PS I have 5 of your TTF Taurus, and the OTT as well. I love them. Thanks.
Interesting results. I started off shooting TTF, but I found it harder to aim on a small scale than OTT. It’s like finding the center of the bands on TTF was somewhat of a guessing game. Guess it’s not for you! Lol. Great shooting as always, Bill.
Cheers greetings from UK.
Bench shooting with a slingshot 👌
Interesting, I'll have to give TTF a solid try after seeing this.
Shoot what you feel most comfortable with... the deviation, the difference is only evident when shooting with extreme precision.
Looked like a pretty fair test. Plus it sounds like this is not your first test. Thank you!
I liked your adjustable Taurus. Slingshot you used in the Tournament , really awesome I wish you have it on sale in your website.
Working on it!
@@MasterBillHaysNICE 👍👍👍 THANK YOU MY IDOL , THE best Slingshot Master
OTT certainly has asymmetric directional forces upon band release compared to TTF. These forces are at right angles to the target and possibly explain the "width" of the grouping.
Could the sharp edge on most slingshots add to this factor? Could breaking the band over a larger radius change the results?
I would love to see a slow motion of the release of each style.
Thank You Bill !
You'll have a wonderful BBQs with your families !! 😂👍😉
Thanks!
This is great thank you.
You're very welcome!
@@MasterBillHays I'm worried about hand hits but I've shot OTT for 4 years and I think I'm ready for TTF. I appreciate you Bill.
Well, it might make a difference if one uses a pouch that is tied to the bands for TTF-style in an OTT-setup. (Since you used the same bandset for both tests, the pouch must be attached in a way that favors one of the styles...)
I used bandsets on my TTF-frames that were tied for OTT - and that worked quite well. I'm not sure if it works the same the other way round. (TTF is in my opinion a more "forgiving" shooting style.)
But even if the bandset used was not made for OTT, I'd be skeptical if that's the main reason for a larger grouping.
BTW: I prefer to shoot TTF, simply because I feel to have more consistency that way. The path how the elastics travel is far more controllable and predictable for me than in OTT.
In the past I've tried the bandsets with OTT tied and TTF tied for each style and even switched them to the other style as an alternate scenario... TTF still won.
It's like I've said before, we're all flawed shooters to some degree, TTF is just a little more forgiving.
Though, I've had days when shooting either style when it seems like I just couldn't miss.
@@MasterBillHays Ok, that's interesting to hear, since I never tried OTT with a TTF-Bandset.
(I don't think I will - as mentioned before, I'm not very fond of OTT-shooting.)
I bought a Pocket Predictor sometime ago and need new bands, do you sell them or can you tell me where to get some. Thank you
Thanks bub!
It usually comes down to the nut behind the wheel, human factor. The better we are the better the result. Great testing of the two types!
I have a question, I'm more accurate with ttf than ott but I shooting with jaw anchor point. Do long distance shooting with ttf slingshot when have to use butterfly style is still more accurate than ott shooting with anchor point on the face and drawn point on this ott band?
I have watched a lot of your videos over the years and have every respect for your experience, knowledge and talent. However - what you have observed in this test is that TTF is more accurate than OTT using this particular method.
Noted
Greetings, question, was it the same rubber? Was it TTF tied? Would it make a difference if you use OTT, also a latex, tied for OTT? Even pre-twisted tied up so the ball has more room when it detaches from the latex?
Greetings from Germany
Whatever tie method used, it always works out the same.
Hello, do you ship to Brazil? Your shopping site does not indicate this. I am from the city of São Paulo, if it is shipped, how can I track the order? I want to buy some models. Is it possible to buy different models in a single shipment? Thank you for your attention
Well, I'm guessing that the TTF approach is more natural for a rubber band when the band is released (just like the limbs of a bow move evenly and straight away from the shooter when arrow is fired). Whereas in OTT there is a slight twist of the band which makes subtle changes in tension. Since the shooting action itself is human and not robotic, and there are very subtle differences in how each element is performed per every shot (even for slingshot aces), the TTF looks a bit more forgiving than OTT in terms of consistency. However, in general, OTT is more beginner friendly in a technical sense. Thanks for the test!
Hey Bill..plz make video on target panic
Good idea, I'll think about it
I still put craters on the moon with my OPFS, Bill. The biggest one I named Mt. Darrell. Good to see ya, you old fart! Tell the missus I said hello. And thank God for Chris Ledoux!
~ Cap'n Joe
gut gemacht
Grüße aus Germany
;-)
Good on you, Thanks!
It's sort of like OTT is pushing a ball with the tip of the pencil and TTF is pushing a ball with the side of the pencil across a table.
I'm a tad confused. The first test was TTF and produced a wide grouping, and the second test was OTT which resulted in a tight group and greater accuracy. So how did it prove that TFF is better?
I'm sure you tried your best,but this has to many variables to declare which is more accurate. You would need no wind, a precise machine release and thousands of shots. But I thank you for trying its an interesting video.
Thank you for the video Bill I shot ott and my accuracy are bad no I switch on ttf when the master of slingshots says ttf is better than ott.
I think it was a fair test
Thanks!
So why do you use ott, maybe if you were shooting only with ttf from the begining you would be more accurate now. Maybe that's what it's all about
TTF is the best and more powerful I thinks..👌
@@khunnation2320 I am a little more accurate with ttf from the begining but very long distance shooting is the most important for me and I thought ott is more accurate for the longest shooting
Your slingshot very nice….
Which brand slingshot….?
Model name …?
The slingshot in the test was a Pocket Predator TAC Hammer.
I love watching this kind of tests but i think one of the world champs uses OTT? 🤔
i cant do TTF shooting because i seem to fork hit 80 percent of the time so F that im not goona shoot my hand again:(
Actually you are right. TTF is easy to shoot sharply hit the target compare to OTT.
Здрасти. Расстояние ?
Test if laser slingshots are accurate
I am of the same opinion TTF is better and much more accurate. I myself use a ttf slingshot for many reasons, but I will not describe it, you will understand for yourself.
i ve realized im more consistently accurate with ttf
No way. OTT is #1!!!
I'm confused. It seems locking the frame solid on the OTT test may have introduced some innacuracy or inconsistency that isn't there on a flexible wrist. I'm watching videos of people hitting 9 out of 10 shots on a nickel at that range, but your results show that should be impossible. Maybe you need a hinge on the base of the frame?
Torque is R Sine Theta, R = radius, so he was applying more torque and thus movement to the frame all other things being equal.
If the connection of the latex to the pouch is not respected, the tape twists and the bullet has less room to detach... this can cause this scattering circle.
To rule it out, and to work conscientiously, I would repeat the experiment with tuned bands.
Once TTF
Once OTT band
and tied an OTT Pre Twistet
greetings
Auf Deutsch
Wenn die Anbindung, des Latex, an der Pouch (Beutel) nicht beachtet wird, verdreht das Band, und die Kugel hat weniger Platz um sich zu lösen... das kann mit diesen Streukreis verursachen.
Um es auszuschließen, und um Gewissenhaft zu arbeiten, würde ich, den Versuch mit Abgestimmten Bändern wiederholen..
Einmal TTF
Einmal OTT Band
und ein OTT Pre Twistet angebunden
Grüß
Ott is best for me Walmart clay ball are cheap
I won uk slingshot championship 2012 10meters .3rd place 20 meters 2013 won some archery comps. but cannot shoot short draw .shoot albatross witch is is strange. weird to think as archery is draw to the mouth I'm just strange
as fair as its going to get.. and that just made up my mind i dont ever need to shoot ott.. so i know which titan slingshot i might buy in the future... if i dont go with a gkj cast sling.. that would really solidify my fork tilting issues..
Your test was as legitimate as possible. If you were testing HAND HELD , and the SHOT GROUPINGS were in the same places, You would move your hand holding the SLINGSHOT accordingly. In closing, It was an ACCURATE Test.