I built a 10-inch subwoofer with a passive radiator tuned to 16Hz. It truly digs very deep. It is not loud, but it didn't need to be loud for me to absolutely enjoy it. It still sounds very visceral, even at lower volume. I can feel the bass even at reduced volume. It does an excellent job with pipe organs & synthesizers. The secret sauce is the 10-inch passive radiator with huge Xmax. It is capable of hitting very hard on well recorded kick drum, so it is not sloppy sounding at all.
This would be way more interesting with REW results since we cant hear the SPL and the microphone probably cant convey the lower frequencies. I would also like to see a compression test
Yes, I agree. When the dual 12 is done, I'll include the REW measurements. For reference, the dual 10 hit 111 db at 26 hz with the mic about 15 feet away. That's a room gain measurement, but impressive nevertheless.
I'm a fan of running 2 subs; 1 sealed for accuracy and response and 1 ported for the feel, but I keep the ported turned down so you can't tell them apart or where they are by listening.
@@rankcolour8780 That's a good idea. I'm not much of a sealed sub guy, but I have some friends that run sealed and ported and it sounds absolutely awesome.
I use two tens directly underneath my left and right fronts sealed radiator subs so the internal air pushes back through to slam the radiator. My own opinion is that not all movies or programmes are for ported subs. When a programme or movie comes on with music I prefer the punch. Ported always gives sense of air around the room.
@PreteshPatel-hv9rq definitely agree. Using only ported subs is like choosing to miss a little scope of the bass in favour of having "more" of it. I'm fully on board with different people liking different things but for me if I'm gonna pay a crap load of money for subs I want them to cover the entire range from response to depth.
As someone who has four spare 10" peerless drivers with around an inch of peak-to-peak excursion laying around, this kinda build could be VERY interesting to test out for a budget bass monster. Either in this configuration or as a sealed Perlisten-style bottom-front pair for the lowest possible distortion. Very impressive kinda-13" sub. Absolutely looks like a tank
Different size are meant for different frequency range, not just air mouvment. 10 inch have faster excursion recovery or dampning then bigger diameter cone has.
yes the box does play a lot on Bass extension, but the important notion is to make a box that will not over roll the frequency the sub is not supposed to hit very well, otherwise it will come with diminishing returns at bass accuracy.
18” sub is sounding more punchy and accurate than the big boys. For a room of approximate 14 feet by 20 we don’t need 23” subs I think. 15” or 18” subs are enough to create accurate bas sound stage.
I know it stinks, but if you are using an iPhone and go to camera settings and turn off stereo audio you can zoom in without affecting the audio. You other option would be to get filmic pro which will take over every aspect of your phone to record.
Why is the enclosure volume ? I assume ported ? Aero port ? Slot port ? Port length ? I have these drivers just curious what you came up with . Thanks 🙏
The enclosure volume is 2.8 C.F. Yes, it's ported. It's a 3x16 inch slot port. 33 inches if you don't include where it turns the corner at the bottom and goes past the down firing driver. 53 inches if you include that portion. It digs down past 20 hz with ease though.
I dunno, from the recording the 10’s sounded better than the larger subs. Tighter and more musical, with a smoother transition from the other speakers to the sub. Obviously as you move up you get more overhead, but I’d take the 10’s for a music system for sure. For home theater, I’d probably go for a pair of the 18’s. Thanks for the video!
It's more a question of the output of the sub being matched better with the speakers for the 10. If you turned up the whole system in line with the output of the sub increasing, it would sound more balanced. And especially on a cell microphone it will compress and overpower when the bass is that much louder.
@@righteousbuilds3576sounds like the 18" not getting the power it need, or redesigne the box for it. It should be more playful than any smaler singeldesign, is the 10" pushpull??
The 10 inch is a down-firing/forward firing design. The down firing configuration tends to do more with less gain while the forward firing speakers sound cleaner. This is the best of both worlds.
I know a lot of the speaker power amps are rated well at 2 Ohm. I've two SItereo Integrity HST 18's I need to get boxes for (looking at custom Full Martys or maybe custom GSG Devastator boxes for home theater). Thing is they're the dual 2 Ohm voice coil versions so need to be wired for 4 Ohm (series) or 1 Ohm (parallel) unless I want to use one amp per voice coil to get that 2 Ohm sweet spot. Do you know if the Speaker Power amps are stable at 1 Ohm (I need to run a DMM on the speakers as I doubt they're exactly 1 Ohm - just close at their lowest when run parallel)? I was looking at the SP 8KW or 12KW stereo rack amps for the power so that I could feed these a full 2KW RMS each but have plenty of room left to dig for those big events in movies where the speakers want that peak power. But the ratings are really best at 2 Ohms.
I know that the sp1-4000 and the sp1-6000 have 2 ohm power ratings posted on their website, and I have the sp1-2400 wired for a 2 ohm load, which it's doing just fine with. But I haven't seen anything about whether they're stable at 1 ohm.
If you have a 4 ohm option, why wouldn't you go that route? Just because an amp is rated for 1 or 2 ohms, doesn't mean you should try to make a speaker that goes that low. If you think an amp is going to preform just as well at 1 or 2 ohms than 4, you're crazy. The harder you push it, the worse it preforms. 4 is still pretty low. I know you think you will get more power with less resistance, but there's a few things you may not know. First, there are no standards manufacturers have to go by when rating an amp for power. Every company is left to do it however they see fit. If you take 5 amp from 5 different companies, all rated for the same amount of power, and measured them all the same way, every one would be different. No 2 would put out the same amount of power. Not only that, when you see these ridiculous power ratings for 500 or 1000 watts, or even higher, its silly. You can only get numbers like this on a test bench using a continuous test tone. Real music is far more demanding. Its like if you want to make your car go faster, you can invest money for high quality upgrades and do it right, or you can drive down a hill with your foot to the floor. You're chasing watts by driving down a hill. A question for you. A watt is volts x amps. Assuming the same amount of distortion for all 3 examples, do you think these 3 amps will all preform the same? Amp1: 10v x 10a = 100 watts (assume an 8 ohm load for all 3), Amp 2: 25v x 4a = 100 watts, Amp 3: 4v x 25 a = 100 watts. When you go to wire up the sub you're building, before you close everything up, have a friend run the speaker at 2 ohms and 4 ohms. Listen to them blind with the spl levels matched, and see witch one you think sounds better.
Bigger sub does have less struggle hitting them deep lows cause of the effective cone area and mass being moved moved by the motor. Dayton have some of the best money friendly subs for home aplication. UM18-22 for instance.
That 10 delivers, but when it all comes down to it, it's more down to the surface area. If the box of the small one are able to flex and it has damping inside to eliminate resonance, it will be like the surface area of an 18 all around, it kinda make sense if you ask me, but the 18 digs much deeper. I do make music myself, but it's not publiced, although I can easily make tracks that digs well into the 18 hz area. I first for me recently is that my daw decided to quit on me because of low memory maybe and high load, but I gues it will do that kind of thing when every plugin rack going into the master is filled with at least 3 to 7 vst's on average across 23 rows of different sound generators. That said, there is loads of good copyright free music out there, but you will have do an effort looking it up and you will certainly be rewarded with good ones.
I d possibly be interested in the 15" or bigger . How ever I d like to see some rew on it tho so I know what's it's capable of. I have 4 " 15 monolith thx subs now. But was thinking about going the diy route the your 24 " . Lmk thx
@@righteousbuilds3576 Does having them perpendicular to each other make a difference or is it functionally equivalent as if they both were on the same baffle face? Still learning on my end.
@@chokechange Before designing this sub, I had seen several demonstrations about how a down firing sub will have greater tactile response than a forward firing sub. This one combines the two to make a reasonably small (take that with a grain of salt, it's still 18x21x27) sub with great tactile response and nice, clean, detailed sound. The 24 inch sub in my living room is a down firing sub and it's an absolute jack hammer. My neighbors often complain when I fire up that monster :).
It's a ported sub. 3x16. Just like the JTR, the port wraps around the entire inside of the enclosure and used the 3 inch portion on the bottom as a quasi-extension for even lower tuning.
Deep? Yes. Loud? Almost, but not quite. I built 4 way sub-replacement floor standers, with 10" RSS265hf subs built in. They are ported and tuned to 19hz. I got up to 110dB @ 20hz at listening position before they plateau. F3 is ~17hz. I'm upgrading the design to 12" drivers (Ultimax), I guess because THX reference levels....but mostly because the other drivers are 12". And I can drop it into the same cabinet and get almost exactly the same frequency response as the 10" gave me!
I honestly think those JBL VRX subs, even the 18s, are my least favorite pro audio subs. They are a less expensive option though, and they are good for smaller spaces. My main complaint is that even the 18s just seem to kick, and don’t really go deep. Not sure if you have the powered version, but if you do, those seem to clip relatively easily and sound like garbage when playing bass music, especially outdoors at a louder volume. However I’ve noticed that pro audio subs, when done right, tend to usually sound punchier and more musical outdoors due to the general lack of echoes and reverb. I vastly prefer intimate outdoor concerts to any other music listening experience.
@@djijspeakerguy4628 Ive noticed they CAN if they are driver really hard. Mine are rigged with 2 line arrays below each one (1 per side 2 total). They are in my auditorium and for the space they are technically oversized. i do know that they are not at their rated power, only about 700wrms each. but i work with what i have. I do know that they can get low when i want them too. they do MUCH better for movies than they do for music at least indoors
@@hortonj63 Yeah, that’s sort of the story with the VRX subs. I hear that the passive versions that run off a separate amplifier are far better than the powered version with the Crown amp in the back. You can definitely get the passive ones loud if you want to. The best JBL sub I think I’ve heard is the SRX728 which is basically a VRX918 with two drivers. It was six of them in a medium sized auditorium. The main rig was actually a top-of-the-line VERTEC system and the SRX728 subs held up extremely well!
@@djijspeakerguy4628 you are absolutely right. Mine are passive with a QSC PLD 4.5k and they arent driven with full power but they sound great. The crown amps were tuned horribly and roll off was VERY high. they didnt dig at all. Now the PRX912 powered PA speakers are fantastic. i hung 4 in the gym and they get down at 30ft high.
@@hortonj63 Yeah, I’m with you on those subs with the built-in crown amps, definitely one of JBL’s failed designs in my opinion. I was at an outdoor stage with 3 918SP subs ground stacked per side covering an approximately 200x200 foot lawn space. They had a lot of pre-recorded modern pop music with heavy bass being sent through the subs at one point. It was pretty loud up front, but a bit quiet in the back. The sound was overall treble-heavy, and the subwoofers built in amps were already clipping so badly that the kicks started to almost sound like 2 or 3 separate peaks, like “Ppuph!” (In contrast with “Puh!!!”) and they just had no depth to them whatsoever. Funnily enough, I did hear a set of the new Crown-powered SRX-828 subs at a small indoor venue in my city and those were epic. I wonder if Crown revised their tuning!
Compared to the JTR, the 10" sounds better through your mic and through my headphones at first, but paying closer attention, it's clear that the JTR is more faithful to the source material. The 10" sub is exciting the second harmonic on a lot of the lower tones (sub-50 Hz), giving it the illusion of going deeper or being louder, but it's distortion and not accurate sound. Comparing both to the 24", you can actually hear the details in the low tones. And it's properly exciting the room modes (and the door).
Great vid, many thanks! I've a couple of RSS265HF4 - would they be suited so such an enclosure design? I'm re-using a couple of old 50l ported boxes at the moment and it's OK, but in the long term I will build another enclosure so I'm gathering info in the meantime :)
I would say that the dual 24's would perform very close to dual JTR captivator 4000ulf with the slight advantage going to the 24's due to higher efficiency.
20” vs 18 “. I hope the 10s do more. Would be sad if they didn’t As you mentioned work as hard as the other speakers. Well that is determined by the tuning of the box.
When you calculate the cone area, the 18 still has more (254 square inches vs 157 for the 2 tens), but the higher sensitivity and their willingness to work makes them perform way better than expected.
Can you make a ten-inch sub dig like an 18? No. Obviously. How about two tens? Closer, but still no. Not if the 18 is any account. There is no replacement for displacement.
The dual 2 ohm 10 inch drivers are individually wired in series for a 4 ohm load from each of them. They are then wired together in parallel for a two ohm load on the amp.
2 10's works out to be about the same as a 13 inch driver. All of the design elements that went into the enclosure contribute to it's musical abilities and also the ability to dig like you wouldn't believe for 10 inch drivers.
and some dummies say, you cant hear difference in sound over youtube!! what kinda bs matt from obsedde garage!! the 10inch sounded much more clear, and had alot more punch.. the 18 inch didt not have the same control at all
Qq: do you mind sharing the airspace in your HS24s? If ported what's your tuning frequency? I'm building a house with media room and your video has me wanting to do a larger-than-life sub.
Damn, them 10's sounds really close if you ask me. Good job man, they don't sound as good as the JTR's but overall for the size it differently hit very hard.👏👏👏
Put it in a Bill Fitzmaurice Table Tuba, maybe it will compete, if it has an Fs around 30Hz, Vas of 30-60 litres and Qes around 0.3. Bass reflex tend to become one note wonders when you build them bigger. Edit: it's 2 10s.
I had a 12 inch box like this 300 rms.. 750 peak.. single woofers & a floppy cone... sounded great.. till u wanted more... it didn't have much to give in the high db range
This is a bit disingenuous. Makes it sound like one ten against a 18. Can you get a ten to get low like an 18? Yes. Will it be the same depth of bass? No. He who has the most cone area wins. If everything is equal an 18 will always beat a ten. Unless the box is completely wrong for the driver. The box and the environment has a lot to do with it. My son has 2 twelve's in his car on 1500 watts. I have a single twelve in a custom enclosure in my car on 700 watts. On the spl meter mine does a 143db on music. His does a 137db. If he got an enclosure optimized for his subs his would absolutely be louder than mine.
2 RULES.... NO REPLACEMENT, FOR DISPLACEMENT, AND THE ONE WITH THE MOST CONE AREA WINS, WITH THE SAME AMOUNT OF WATTAGE, GIVEN THAT THE SAME HAVE THE SAME SPECS.... SENSIVITY, ETC ETC....
I still hold a record, 30yrs later. I had two down firing 12in Blue Thunders from 1994. On a JSE 400watt amp, mids and highs off a 50x2 Precision Power Art Series. Clarion head unit. I hit a 152db with less than a total power of 500watts. I spent months with a music teacher, science teacher and MTX designing this set-up so the subs stayed within their maximum frequency range for a ported box, but using the car as a loaded horn. Down firing about 4 inches, I think during testing I used red bricks on their sides. Firing back through about 8in up, then the hatch glass acted like the horn. I nearly destroyed that car, breaking the mirror off the windshield, knocked the steering wheel collum off and so much more. 3 of us sat on the hatch and it bounced us up in the air. From a very literal 1/2 mile away it was shacking windows. I know because I got the police called on me. When you make the box right, you can maximize the subs output. When you use science, you can make that sound amplify by using physics the same as a horned instrument can take raspberries from your lips and fill an entire concert hall loudly. Tens will be cleaner with less mass for control, but the larger subs will be more efficient with lows because of the mass and cone area always helps with efficiency since a single 18 is like 4 10's of usable cone area. So 100watts on each, the 18 will be considerably louder. And the frequency range is dependent on the subs suspension, motor and coil. The enclosure size allows for the tuned frequency response or maximum frequency response, but at a cost or benefits of power handling. To get lows you need a massive box in most cases. Or a 4th order tuned extremely low with a subsonic filter and that ported sub brings up the higher stuff
@@MyFatherLoves not a complaint, more of a statement. And it's one 10" in a 4th order and one ported. Also known as 4th and half by some. Regardless, what's more efficient at 100w? If you pay attention to the fs and box expectations to hit that frequency, you'll see, a single 12" is superior to 2 10"s in a 4th and a half. Same box size. Even that 18" is nearly the same box size and also about 6db louder at 1000w, but may not have the tight bass of the 10's. I do like his concept, especially if he opens it up to 12". Even Sundown claims to hit lows, or B2 with an 8". But it probably would take the same size box or even bigger and can do about the same. But also without the power handling either.
if it was dual 12's thats all you would need,i have a 12 inch boston acoustic firing down in the corner of my room from like 20 yrs ago and it shook the house and could blow light bulbs in my ceiling fan,and i mean blow them as in make them burn out not explode lol ive got two cabinets with dayton audio 12's and the enclosures were built just like a car subwoofer enclosure so they have a slotted port tuned to 32 hz and they are 3 way and those blast the house.i remember back in the 80's the only people that bought 10's were for rock haha remember that so i never got them,i know a lot has changed,ive got two vehicles one is a single cab tuck ive had it 24 yrs it has two sundown sa 8's ported behind the seat and it moves air,my blazer with sundown X 12's will blow your mind,over a hundred lbs of deadener so it holds the bass in,ive got plenty of speakers,dayton audio 7 inch epiques in sealed enclosures on the lower part of my doors as dedicated mid bass duty,ive got some 8 inch peerless sls and those things get down im thinking about taking the epiques out and make just a baffle to screw to my enclosures on my doors and install the peerless 8's they get down.the only 18 i have is a sundown nsv4 18 that im actually trying to sell local but too many low ballers so it sits in my closet,ive been thinking about building some book shelf style 2 or 3 ways and use the peerless im sure they would make some good bass for what they are you know,have you ever heard the C note builds from dayton audio ? i was curious about how they really sound,i dont have much experience with small cabinets like these but im bored,i also have some 7 and 8 inch dayton reference speakers haha so i could build something with them,too bad i cant build cabinets for all my speakers and sell them and actually make money you know.thanks for the cool video looks like you like to have fun.are you on face book bro?
Bose acoustimass 10 used 3 5.25 drivers and fancy port work and made it thunder like a 18 so I’m sure 10s can be made to sound like more than they are. In fact I had a competition 10” sub that outperformed my 2 15” subs (car audio) so I know for a fact they can do some damage.
@jeussmyrrho9119 the engineering has barely changed in the last couple of decades and the quality has not improved either. It's just old wine in new sacks
@@xaviermontalban717 This isn't realy true. As of now, transducers are the weakest link in HiFi and there is still a ton to be had: lower distortion, more SPL, wider bandwidth, more controlled directivity, etc. You can still hear a difference between two speakers that have both been eq'd and level matched due to directivity and distortion, even controlling for the enclosure. I recommend reading Kef's or Purifi's or Genelec's or Kii's engineering notes to understand the cutting edge.
@LynnXternal Oh, l agree. I was speaking in general. If you take an average speaker, it basically has the same components as speakers from 30 years ago. Some high-end speakers even have the most basic cheap components. And yes, I know there are exceptions. Personally, I'm a fan of active crossovers
I run a single Dayton reference 10 in a custom ported enclosure. It is very musical and hits well down below 20 with authority. I was going to use two for my listening room but the single cabinet is totally enough. Powered with 950 watts class AB, it is satisfying, deep, clean and quick bass.
@@fredygump5578 If I had the room it would be a wall of sound, lol. Really happy with this single cabinet. Placed well in the room it is more than adequate. I have a few more spare subs and the matched passive radiators for some future builds. I am always building new stuff... it's a sickness.
I love this comparison!! On my this system the 2 10”s made more rattles, more pressure. Prob different in Person. But I’ve researched those Dayton 10/12”s, and they actually spec really really well!! Can’t wait for the 2 12”s!! You’re basically making the Perlisten D210 for a fraction of the price! I really hope you make the 12” and 15” versions!! 🎉 Ps. Where are you located? I’m in Roy Utah. 🎉 Awesome job!
Looks like the Perlisten runs about $5k for the r210. But you're right. With the planned 1200 watt amp, it would be around half the cost, finished and ready for pickup. I'm in the West Jordan, Utah area. Just south of Salt Lake.
Some mic measurements with REW would be more informative. To me, even the SI 24's sound the same as my laptop speakers. :D (sound demos on UA-cam simply do not work that well and will only ever sound as good as the listener's speakers minus the UA-cam compression) That being said, those are some nice looking sub builds.
The 2x10" sounded far better than the JTR. Sure, the 18" dug deeper. No doubt. I'm sure it goes louder as well. However, the 2x10" sounded significantly better. Pretty wild that the 24s sound as musical as the 10s..... Those drivers are just incredibly well built.
Hey! another audio enthusiast here, i have made bass edits of my songs in the past, one of them plays from 19-31hz, which i think would be appropriate for testing those kinds of subs. if you're interested in using them, let me know your email or other contact info so i can send you the files
More videos of speakers are needed, man! This was very interesting.
Thank you. It won't be too long until I can get the 12 inch version put together.
I built a 10-inch subwoofer with a passive radiator tuned to 16Hz. It truly digs very deep. It is not loud, but it didn't need to be loud for me to absolutely enjoy it. It still sounds very visceral, even at lower volume. I can feel the bass even at reduced volume. It does an excellent job with pipe organs & synthesizers. The secret sauce is the 10-inch passive radiator with huge Xmax.
It is capable of hitting very hard on well recorded kick drum, so it is not sloppy sounding at all.
That's awesome. Yeah, I was very surprised at what those little 10's can do.
This would be way more interesting with REW results since we cant hear the SPL and the microphone probably cant convey the lower frequencies. I would also like to see a compression test
Yes, I agree. When the dual 12 is done, I'll include the REW measurements. For reference, the dual 10 hit 111 db at 26 hz with the mic about 15 feet away. That's a room gain measurement, but impressive nevertheless.
Interesting Video! Cool comparison. That 18" woofer looks tiny compared to those monsters in the back.
Maybe show the world a bit more of them :)
They'll be featured in future videos. :)
Some of that copyright-free music has the best bass.
Love the carbon fiber cones on the woofers, the ten inchers sound great too
The 10 sounds better. Fast motion response gave no gaps in the notes. I found the bigger sub was leaving a note out. But slammed harder.
Yes, each different type of driver will perform a little different. I have fun with all of it :).
I'm a fan of running 2 subs; 1 sealed for accuracy and response and 1 ported for the feel, but I keep the ported turned down so you can't tell them apart or where they are by listening.
@@rankcolour8780 That's a good idea. I'm not much of a sealed sub guy, but I have some friends that run sealed and ported and it sounds absolutely awesome.
I use two tens directly underneath my left and right fronts sealed radiator subs so the internal air pushes back through to slam the radiator. My own opinion is that not all movies or programmes are for ported subs. When a programme or movie comes on with music I prefer the punch. Ported always gives sense of air around the room.
@PreteshPatel-hv9rq definitely agree. Using only ported subs is like choosing to miss a little scope of the bass in favour of having "more" of it.
I'm fully on board with different people liking different things but for me if I'm gonna pay a crap load of money for subs I want them to cover the entire range from response to depth.
Bruh!! I can only imagine those two behemoths in the back, actually turned up! The meme, with the base hitting, and the explosion, comes to mind!
As someone who has four spare 10" peerless drivers with around an inch of peak-to-peak excursion laying around, this kinda build could be VERY interesting to test out for a budget bass monster. Either in this configuration or as a sealed Perlisten-style bottom-front pair for the lowest possible distortion.
Very impressive kinda-13" sub. Absolutely looks like a tank
Thank you. Yeah, I'm still very surprised at the performance. If you have the materials lying around, why not make something cool out of them? :)
Or 4 grs12 4he.
Is an inch peak to peak good for home audio? That's like a 12mm xmax. Kinda weak
Different size are meant for different frequency range, not just air mouvment.
10 inch have faster excursion recovery or dampning then bigger diameter cone has.
True. I'm very impressed at how they can also hit true lows as well as handling mid bass.
@@righteousbuilds3576 oh even a 6 inch sub can hit very low, but you won't feel or hear the very low notes as powerfully as a 12 inch sub.
yes the box does play a lot on Bass extension, but the important notion is to make a box that will not over roll the frequency the sub is not supposed to hit very well, otherwise it will come with diminishing returns at bass accuracy.
18” sub is sounding more punchy and accurate than the big boys. For a room of approximate 14 feet by 20 we don’t need 23” subs I think. 15” or 18” subs are enough to create accurate bas sound stage.
True. 15 and 18 inch drivers are more than enough. But I like plenty of overkill with everything that I build :).
Verry impressive, and well build!
Thank you. That's much appreciated.
I know it stinks, but if you are using an iPhone and go to camera settings and turn off stereo audio you can zoom in without affecting the audio. You other option would be to get filmic pro which will take over every aspect of your phone to record.
Very intresting video! Good sound quality and you cover all my questions!
Thank you. Much Appreciated.
Thank you. They are a joy to build.
Ya, this is impressive AF... thanks for the video... and time...
I subbed, good place to chill....
The 18 is impressive, way more air, but honestly, the 10 sounds more tight, musical, at least to me...
@@mkarl3412 Thank you. Glad to have you here :)
Why is the enclosure volume ? I assume ported ? Aero port ? Slot port ? Port length ? I have these drivers just curious what you came up with . Thanks 🙏
The enclosure volume is 2.8 C.F. Yes, it's ported. It's a 3x16 inch slot port. 33 inches if you don't include where it turns the corner at the bottom and goes past the down firing driver. 53 inches if you include that portion. It digs down past 20 hz with ease though.
I dunno, from the recording the 10’s sounded better than the larger subs. Tighter and more musical, with a smoother transition from the other speakers to the sub. Obviously as you move up you get more overhead, but I’d take the 10’s for a music system for sure. For home theater, I’d probably go for a pair of the 18’s. Thanks for the video!
You know there a article on databass , talking about small vs big sub ,
Music vs none,
They have all been disproven
It's more a question of the output of the sub being matched better with the speakers for the 10. If you turned up the whole system in line with the output of the sub increasing, it would sound more balanced. And especially on a cell microphone it will compress and overpower when the bass is that much louder.
I also noticed that the 10 inch was more musical. Yet it can also handle home theater duty.
@@righteousbuilds3576sounds like the 18" not getting the power it need, or redesigne the box for it. It should be more playful than any smaler singeldesign, is the 10" pushpull??
The 10 inch is a down-firing/forward firing design. The down firing configuration tends to do more with less gain while the forward firing speakers sound cleaner. This is the best of both worlds.
The hidden 10” definitely helps.
Yes, it helps to build pressure inside the enclosure to make it sound much bigger than it actually is.
I know a lot of the speaker power amps are rated well at 2 Ohm. I've two SItereo Integrity HST 18's I need to get boxes for (looking at custom Full Martys or maybe custom GSG Devastator boxes for home theater). Thing is they're the dual 2 Ohm voice coil versions so need to be wired for 4 Ohm (series) or 1 Ohm (parallel) unless I want to use one amp per voice coil to get that 2 Ohm sweet spot. Do you know if the Speaker Power amps are stable at 1 Ohm (I need to run a DMM on the speakers as I doubt they're exactly 1 Ohm - just close at their lowest when run parallel)? I was looking at the SP 8KW or 12KW stereo rack amps for the power so that I could feed these a full 2KW RMS each but have plenty of room left to dig for those big events in movies where the speakers want that peak power. But the ratings are really best at 2 Ohms.
I know that the sp1-4000 and the sp1-6000 have 2 ohm power ratings posted on their website, and I have the sp1-2400 wired for a 2 ohm load, which it's doing just fine with. But I haven't seen anything about whether they're stable at 1 ohm.
If you have a 4 ohm option, why wouldn't you go that route? Just because an amp is rated for 1 or 2 ohms, doesn't mean you should try to make a speaker that goes that low. If you think an amp is going to preform just as well at 1 or 2 ohms than 4, you're crazy. The harder you push it, the worse it preforms. 4 is still pretty low.
I know you think you will get more power with less resistance, but there's a few things you may not know. First, there are no standards manufacturers have to go by when rating an amp for power. Every company is left to do it however they see fit. If you take 5 amp from 5 different companies, all rated for the same amount of power, and measured them all the same way, every one would be different. No 2 would put out the same amount of power. Not only that, when you see these ridiculous power ratings for 500 or 1000 watts, or even higher, its silly. You can only get numbers like this on a test bench using a continuous test tone. Real music is far more demanding. Its like if you want to make your car go faster, you can invest money for high quality upgrades and do it right, or you can drive down a hill with your foot to the floor. You're chasing watts by driving down a hill.
A question for you. A watt is volts x amps. Assuming the same amount of distortion for all 3 examples, do you think these 3 amps will all preform the same? Amp1: 10v x 10a = 100 watts (assume an 8 ohm load for all 3), Amp 2: 25v x 4a = 100 watts, Amp 3: 4v x 25 a = 100 watts.
When you go to wire up the sub you're building, before you close everything up, have a friend run the speaker at 2 ohms and 4 ohms. Listen to them blind with the spl levels matched, and see witch one you think sounds better.
Bigger sub does have less struggle hitting them deep lows cause of the effective cone area and mass being moved moved by the motor. Dayton have some of the best money friendly subs for home aplication. UM18-22 for instance.
He's built all these and you assume he doesn't know this?
True. the 2 tens combined have about 100 less square inches of cone area, but they put it to very good use.
Take a look at the tiny port area of the larger driver Vs the 10
Gotta let those baby 10's breathe :)
Nice comparison, nice subs👍
Thank you. Much appreciated.
That 10 delivers, but when it all comes down to it, it's more down to the surface area.
If the box of the small one are able to flex and it has damping inside to eliminate resonance, it will be like the surface area of an 18 all around, it kinda make sense if you ask me, but the 18 digs much deeper.
I do make music myself, but it's not publiced, although I can easily make tracks that digs well into the 18 hz area.
I first for me recently is that my daw decided to quit on me because of low memory maybe and high load, but I gues it will do that kind of thing when every plugin rack going into the master is filled with at least 3 to 7 vst's on average across 23 rows of different sound generators.
That said, there is loads of good copyright free music out there, but you will have do an effort looking it up and you will certainly be rewarded with good ones.
Agreed, there are good copyright free tracks out there. They're just hard to find :).
Wow. Those 24"-ers are making the entire room breathe haha. That's amazing
Yeah, sometimes I actually think the ceiling is going to fall in on me:).
I d possibly be interested in the 15" or bigger . How ever I d like to see some rew on it tho so I know what's it's capable of. I have 4 " 15 monolith thx subs now. But was thinking about going the diy route the your 24 " . Lmk thx
I'll be doing some REW measurements on the 12 inch version. Watch for the next video. I'm just waiting on the amp to be shipped.
3 10's vs 1 18" is a closer comparison.
Agreed. Two 12's might come pretty close in performance or beat it. :) Coming soon.
@@righteousbuilds3576is it a push pull setup? does the air pressure increase or stay constant?
@@chokechange They are in phase with each other, so they act as approximately one 13 inch driver.
@@righteousbuilds3576 Does having them perpendicular to each other make a difference or is it functionally equivalent as if they both were on the same baffle face? Still learning on my end.
@@chokechange Before designing this sub, I had seen several demonstrations about how a down firing sub will have greater tactile response than a forward firing sub. This one combines the two to make a reasonably small (take that with a grain of salt, it's still 18x21x27) sub with great tactile response and nice, clean, detailed sound. The 24 inch sub in my living room is a down firing sub and it's an absolute jack hammer. My neighbors often complain when I fire up that monster :).
I don't know if you mentioned it or not, but is the dual 10" subwoofer ported or sealed? The JTR looks like a ported sub?
It's a ported sub. 3x16. Just like the JTR, the port wraps around the entire inside of the enclosure and used the 3 inch portion on the bottom as a quasi-extension for even lower tuning.
@@righteousbuilds3576Thanks
I have a 10" HSU sub and it is remarkably close to the same as my two 18" Carvin bass bins. It's freaky! The Carvins are a bit more visceral.
Yeah, I was very surprised with how those little 10 inchers performed. I never would have thought that I would get that kind of response out of them.
This is really kool. Where are you located.
I think i have seen you post in the stereo integrity group.
You would be correct. Im in the Salt Lake, Utah Area.
That actually came through on my HTS (it's hooked into my PC) very well, considering Poo-Tube compression. Which mic did you use>?
It was just the samsung S-22 mic for that video.
Deep? Yes. Loud? Almost, but not quite. I built 4 way sub-replacement floor standers, with 10" RSS265hf subs built in. They are ported and tuned to 19hz. I got up to 110dB @ 20hz at listening position before they plateau. F3 is ~17hz. I'm upgrading the design to 12" drivers (Ultimax), I guess because THX reference levels....but mostly because the other drivers are 12". And I can drop it into the same cabinet and get almost exactly the same frequency response as the 10" gave me!
I got very similar results from my measurements. With the mic about 15 feet away, I measured 111 db at 26 hz
@@righteousbuilds3576 That's so close it's almost science!
I wish my JBL VRX15s could sound this good in my auditorium. They almost dig that low but being suspended makes it tough to adjust with no RTA mic.
I honestly think those JBL VRX subs, even the 18s, are my least favorite pro audio subs. They are a less expensive option though, and they are good for smaller spaces. My main complaint is that even the 18s just seem to kick, and don’t really go deep. Not sure if you have the powered version, but if you do, those seem to clip relatively easily and sound like garbage when playing bass music, especially outdoors at a louder volume. However I’ve noticed that pro audio subs, when done right, tend to usually sound punchier and more musical outdoors due to the general lack of echoes and reverb. I vastly prefer intimate outdoor concerts to any other music listening experience.
@@djijspeakerguy4628 Ive noticed they CAN if they are driver really hard. Mine are rigged with 2 line arrays below each one (1 per side 2 total). They are in my auditorium and for the space they are technically oversized. i do know that they are not at their rated power, only about 700wrms each. but i work with what i have. I do know that they can get low when i want them too. they do MUCH better for movies than they do for music at least indoors
@@hortonj63 Yeah, that’s sort of the story with the VRX subs. I hear that the passive versions that run off a separate amplifier are far better than the powered version with the Crown amp in the back. You can definitely get the passive ones loud if you want to. The best JBL sub I think I’ve heard is the SRX728 which is basically a VRX918 with two drivers. It was six of them in a medium sized auditorium. The main rig was actually a top-of-the-line VERTEC system and the SRX728 subs held up extremely well!
@@djijspeakerguy4628 you are absolutely right. Mine are passive with a QSC PLD 4.5k and they arent driven with full power but they sound great. The crown amps were tuned horribly and roll off was VERY high. they didnt dig at all. Now the PRX912 powered PA speakers are fantastic. i hung 4 in the gym and they get down at 30ft high.
@@hortonj63 Yeah, I’m with you on those subs with the built-in crown amps, definitely one of JBL’s failed designs in my opinion. I was at an outdoor stage with 3 918SP subs ground stacked per side covering an approximately 200x200 foot lawn space. They had a lot of pre-recorded modern pop music with heavy bass being sent through the subs at one point. It was pretty loud up front, but a bit quiet in the back. The sound was overall treble-heavy, and the subwoofers built in amps were already clipping so badly that the kicks started to almost sound like 2 or 3 separate peaks, like “Ppuph!” (In contrast with “Puh!!!”) and they just had no depth to them whatsoever. Funnily enough, I did hear a set of the new Crown-powered SRX-828 subs at a small indoor venue in my city and those were epic. I wonder if Crown revised their tuning!
Compared to the JTR, the 10" sounds better through your mic and through my headphones at first, but paying closer attention, it's clear that the JTR is more faithful to the source material. The 10" sub is exciting the second harmonic on a lot of the lower tones (sub-50 Hz), giving it the illusion of going deeper or being louder, but it's distortion and not accurate sound. Comparing both to the 24", you can actually hear the details in the low tones. And it's properly exciting the room modes (and the door).
2x 10" ...Interesting peaks!
18" ...Geez that certainly peaks my interest!
24" ... Where do I take cover? 😀
That's awesome. Thanks for the comment. :)
Great vid, many thanks!
I've a couple of RSS265HF4 - would they be suited so such an enclosure design?
I'm re-using a couple of old 50l ported boxes at the moment and it's OK, but in the long term I will build another enclosure so I'm gathering info in the meantime :)
This design has been excellent with the 10 and 12 inch high excursion drivers. Those drivers would do just fine.
Can 10s play as low? Sure a 3db or 6db extended bass shelf should get you in that range. Will it be as loud? Yes if you have enough of them.
how many is enough ?
@@phillipmorris9847 depends on if you are married or not
How would the 24s compare to the jtr 4000ulf
I would say that the dual 24's would perform very close to dual JTR captivator 4000ulf with the slight advantage going to the 24's due to higher efficiency.
20” vs 18 “. I hope the 10s do more. Would be sad if they didn’t
As you mentioned work as hard as the other speakers. Well that is determined by the tuning of the box.
When you calculate the cone area, the 18 still has more (254 square inches vs 157 for the 2 tens), but the higher sensitivity and their willingness to work makes them perform way better than expected.
@@righteousbuilds3576 eeeeeh. 😑. The size of the box will determine the performance
The 18in needs a bigger enclosure, the 10's are impressive, the 24's are out of this world, great video..
I agree, the JTR would benefit from a bigger enclosure. Thanks for the great compliment.
The tens are sick how to get one
I think this particular model has been discontinued, which is unfornate because they're some of the best in that size that I've ever seen.
Any links? I could use some of that BASS !
ua-cam.com/video/cTP5xmV5ejI/v-deo.html
Email righteousbuilds@gmail.com and I can get you set up. Although if you're not local to the Salt Lake, Utah area, shipping might be a beast. :)
what amp if that that you're driving the subs with where do I buy ?
That's a speaker power sp1-2400. You can find them at madisound.com or GSG audio. Be prepared for a long wait and a fairly big price tag.
amazing build !!what kind of speakers are the two big ones ? thanks !
Those are stereo integrity HS-24's
Can you make a ten-inch sub dig like an 18? No. Obviously. How about two tens? Closer, but still no. Not if the 18 is any account. There is no replacement for displacement.
Agreed. It depends on the 18 inch subwoofer in question, but it's hard to beat the JTR with anything smaller than it.
@@righteousbuilds3576the paradigm sub2?
How are the subs wired parallel or series?
The dual 2 ohm 10 inch drivers are individually wired in series for a 4 ohm load from each of them. They are then wired together in parallel for a two ohm load on the amp.
Them 24's are Sick
Thank you. Yeah, they can definitely make their presence known.
Is having 2- 10,s like having 16-18 inches of cone area?...would just having 1-10 be a realistic comparison...just asking...Great video..thank you
2 10's works out to be about the same as a 13 inch driver. All of the design elements that went into the enclosure contribute to it's musical abilities and also the ability to dig like you wouldn't believe for 10 inch drivers.
I have the 15" version of these. It's pretty nuts. To bad they don't make the HE's anymore.
and some dummies say, you cant hear difference in sound over youtube!! what kinda bs matt from obsedde garage!! the 10inch sounded much more clear, and had alot more punch.. the 18 inch didt not have the same control at all
It's true, the 10 inch does punch harder than the 18 inch until you down near the bottom of the human hearing range :).
@@righteousbuilds3576 yeah 100% the 18inch, would properly win in movies. and when you feel the it, sitting leaned back in the chair;-)
Can you make a video of ur home theater.
That will be coming up once I get the 12 inch designed and ready to go.
Where did you get the amps ?
Qq: do you mind sharing the airspace in your HS24s? If ported what's your tuning frequency? I'm building a house with media room and your video has me wanting to do a larger-than-life sub.
52 C.F. after you factor in the port and the drivers. My tuning frequency is 13 hz. They are definitely larger than life. :)
Thank you for the response.
@@righteousbuilds3576what a beautiful looking cabinet. Better than most ‘professional’ designed cabs I’ve seen.
Damn, them 10's sounds really close if you ask me. Good job man, they don't sound as good as the JTR's but overall for the size it differently hit very hard.👏👏👏
Put it in a Bill Fitzmaurice Table Tuba, maybe it will compete, if it has an Fs around 30Hz, Vas of 30-60 litres and Qes around 0.3. Bass reflex tend to become one note wonders when you build them bigger.
Edit: it's 2 10s.
I had a 12 inch box like this 300 rms.. 750 peak.. single woofers & a floppy cone... sounded great.. till u wanted more... it didn't have much to give in the high db range
Either one will get you kicked out of your apartment
Would love to see the Devastator sub.
This is a bit disingenuous. Makes it sound like one ten against a 18. Can you get a ten to get low like an 18? Yes. Will it be the same depth of bass? No. He who has the most cone area wins. If everything is equal an 18 will always beat a ten. Unless the box is completely wrong for the driver. The box and the environment has a lot to do with it. My son has 2 twelve's in his car on 1500 watts. I have a single twelve in a custom enclosure in my car on 700 watts. On the spl meter mine does a 143db on music. His does a 137db. If he got an enclosure optimized for his subs his would absolutely be louder than mine.
2 RULES.... NO REPLACEMENT, FOR DISPLACEMENT, AND THE ONE WITH THE MOST CONE AREA WINS, WITH THE SAME AMOUNT OF WATTAGE, GIVEN THAT THE SAME HAVE THE SAME SPECS.... SENSIVITY, ETC ETC....
I still hold a record, 30yrs later. I had two down firing 12in Blue Thunders from 1994. On a JSE 400watt amp, mids and highs off a 50x2 Precision Power Art Series. Clarion head unit. I hit a 152db with less than a total power of 500watts. I spent months with a music teacher, science teacher and MTX designing this set-up so the subs stayed within their maximum frequency range for a ported box, but using the car as a loaded horn. Down firing about 4 inches, I think during testing I used red bricks on their sides. Firing back through about 8in up, then the hatch glass acted like the horn. I nearly destroyed that car, breaking the mirror off the windshield, knocked the steering wheel collum off and so much more. 3 of us sat on the hatch and it bounced us up in the air. From a very literal 1/2 mile away it was shacking windows. I know because I got the police called on me. When you make the box right, you can maximize the subs output. When you use science, you can make that sound amplify by using physics the same as a horned instrument can take raspberries from your lips and fill an entire concert hall loudly. Tens will be cleaner with less mass for control, but the larger subs will be more efficient with lows because of the mass and cone area always helps with efficiency since a single 18 is like 4 10's of usable cone area. So 100watts on each, the 18 will be considerably louder. And the frequency range is dependent on the subs suspension, motor and coil. The enclosure size allows for the tuned frequency response or maximum frequency response, but at a cost or benefits of power handling. To get lows you need a massive box in most cases. Or a 4th order tuned extremely low with a subsonic filter and that ported sub brings up the higher stuff
He explains in the video that it's actually 2 10" woofers?? I don't understand your complaint.
@@MyFatherLoves read the title of the video. There's two tens in the box.
@@MyFatherLoves not a complaint, more of a statement. And it's one 10" in a 4th order and one ported. Also known as 4th and half by some. Regardless, what's more efficient at 100w? If you pay attention to the fs and box expectations to hit that frequency, you'll see, a single 12" is superior to 2 10"s in a 4th and a half. Same box size. Even that 18" is nearly the same box size and also about 6db louder at 1000w, but may not have the tight bass of the 10's. I do like his concept, especially if he opens it up to 12". Even Sundown claims to hit lows, or B2 with an 8". But it probably would take the same size box or even bigger and can do about the same. But also without the power handling either.
if it was dual 12's thats all you would need,i have a 12 inch boston acoustic firing down in the corner of my room from like 20 yrs ago and it shook the house and could blow light bulbs in my ceiling fan,and i mean blow them as in make them burn out not explode lol ive got two cabinets with dayton audio 12's and the enclosures were built just like a car subwoofer enclosure so they have a slotted port tuned to 32 hz and they are 3 way and those blast the house.i remember back in the 80's the only people that bought 10's were for rock haha remember that so i never got them,i know a lot has changed,ive got two vehicles one is a single cab tuck ive had it 24 yrs it has two sundown sa 8's ported behind the seat and it moves air,my blazer with sundown X 12's will blow your mind,over a hundred lbs of deadener so it holds the bass in,ive got plenty of speakers,dayton audio 7 inch epiques in sealed enclosures on the lower part of my doors as dedicated mid bass duty,ive got some 8 inch peerless sls and those things get down im thinking about taking the epiques out and make just a baffle to screw to my enclosures on my doors and install the peerless 8's they get down.the only 18 i have is a sundown nsv4 18 that im actually trying to sell local but too many low ballers so it sits in my closet,ive been thinking about building some book shelf style 2 or 3 ways and use the peerless im sure they would make some good bass for what they are you know,have you ever heard the C note builds from dayton audio ? i was curious about how they really sound,i dont have much experience with small cabinets like these but im bored,i also have some 7 and 8 inch dayton reference speakers haha so i could build something with them,too bad i cant build cabinets for all my speakers and sell them and actually make money you know.thanks for the cool video looks like you like to have fun.are you on face book bro?
Put two 18" in one box with driver at each end ported. I use Dynaudio s 18 and they go low.
Nice
Better to do tone sweep with a meeter and record it that way we have visual.
name of song?
It shows for a couple seconds when the Artist is credited. Max Bhron, Redemption, I think it was.
The 18 digs deeper, but I preferred the sound of the dual 10
Yes, it is more musical than the 18. Lots of people agree with you.
song?
Bose acoustimass 10 used 3 5.25 drivers and fancy port work and made it thunder like a 18 so I’m sure 10s can be made to sound like more than they are. In fact I had a competition 10” sub that outperformed my 2 15” subs (car audio) so I know for a fact they can do some damage.
I 100% agree.
SI really makes some speakers. They looked they were barely trying.
Yeah, it doesn't take much travel to create some serious pressure in the room with those things.
I want subwoofers that look like washing machines
Same test but with a movie
i still dont understand why all speakers are so expensive. is just wood and electronics.
The engineering behind them is the one that is expensive
Why get fresh food when I have all these cans?
@jeussmyrrho9119 the engineering has barely changed in the last couple of decades and the quality has not improved either. It's just old wine in new sacks
@@xaviermontalban717 This isn't realy true. As of now, transducers are the weakest link in HiFi and there is still a ton to be had: lower distortion, more SPL, wider bandwidth, more controlled directivity, etc. You can still hear a difference between two speakers that have both been eq'd and level matched due to directivity and distortion, even controlling for the enclosure. I recommend reading Kef's or Purifi's or Genelec's or Kii's engineering notes to understand the cutting edge.
@LynnXternal Oh, l agree. I was speaking in general. If you take an average speaker, it basically has the same components as speakers from 30 years ago. Some high-end speakers even have the most basic cheap components. And yes, I know there are exceptions. Personally, I'm a fan of active crossovers
VERY NICE ✨👍💜💯 I MAKE SUB TEST tracks on my channel
I'l be cyber stalking soon 😜
@@righteousbuilds3576 🙂✨💯💯💯 have some good stuff for getting higher power out of the AMP ⚡⚡⚡
I run a single Dayton reference 10 in a custom ported enclosure. It is very musical and hits well down below 20 with authority. I was going to use two for my listening room but the single cabinet is totally enough. Powered with 950 watts class AB, it is satisfying, deep, clean and quick bass.
You really need 2 more subs, and then multiple sub optimizaiton! (I have 2 of those subs, and yes, they hit 20hz easy in the right cabinet.)
@@fredygump5578 If I had the room it would be a wall of sound, lol. Really happy with this single cabinet. Placed well in the room it is more than adequate. I have a few more spare subs and the matched passive radiators for some future builds. I am always building new stuff... it's a sickness.
I love this comparison!! On my this system the 2 10”s made more rattles, more pressure. Prob different in Person. But I’ve researched those Dayton 10/12”s, and they actually spec really really well!! Can’t wait for the 2 12”s!! You’re basically making the Perlisten D210 for a fraction of the price!
I really hope you make the 12” and 15” versions!! 🎉
Ps. Where are you located? I’m in Roy Utah. 🎉
Awesome job!
Looks like the Perlisten runs about $5k for the r210. But you're right. With the planned 1200 watt amp, it would be around half the cost, finished and ready for pickup. I'm in the West Jordan, Utah area. Just south of Salt Lake.
😅😅not bad for us customer. But not for european. 389€!! Joking??
Some mic measurements with REW would be more informative. To me, even the SI 24's sound the same as my laptop speakers. :D (sound demos on UA-cam simply do not work that well and will only ever sound as good as the listener's speakers minus the UA-cam compression)
That being said, those are some nice looking sub builds.
Thanks for the input. When I get the 12 inch done, I'll include some REW measurements.
more dynamic on the little 2x10" better sounds to music the 18" sounded like slow moe! the 2x24 wau man that a real deal in sound pressure :D :D GJ
uhhyou start videoing your door bro ? 😂
Man, how are you gonna test bass 🔊 speakers without rap music?
The 2x10" sounded far better than the JTR. Sure, the 18" dug deeper. No doubt. I'm sure it goes louder as well. However, the 2x10" sounded significantly better.
Pretty wild that the 24s sound as musical as the 10s..... Those drivers are just incredibly well built.
I agree. It's a very musical sub. Thanks for the compliment.
I like the #clickbait making it sound and look like it was one 10” subwoofer. Maybe you have a better chance with three 10” subwoofers.
“PACEMAKERS”
Nope
short answer no
No.
neither are doing shit.....
Hey! another audio enthusiast here, i have made bass edits of my songs in the past, one of them plays from 19-31hz, which i think would be appropriate for testing those kinds of subs. if you're interested in using them, let me know your email or other contact info so i can send you the files
That would be very much appreciated. You can send them to righteousbuilds@gmail.com