Prusa XL - Multi-Material Testing (TPU and PLA)
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- Опубліковано 16 лип 2024
- I've been messing with my Prusa XL more and I figured out how to print both TPU and PLA together in the same print. There are a few tips and tricks I learned along the way. Overall the process is pretty straightforward, but in this video I show you what I learned from creating a part, slicing it, and finally printing it.
Prusa XL - www.prusa3d.com/product/origi...
My Favorite Tools - www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls...
Prusa XL Playlist - • Prusa XL
00:00 Intro
00:43 My Goals
02:03 Dual Material Parts in CAD
04:06 Slicer Tips and Tricks
08:05 Closer Look
10:22 EVEN Closer Look
11:44 Wipe Tower
13:23 TL;DR
14:18 Volumetric Flow Tangent
15:29 My TPU Woes
16:31 Next Steps - Навчання та стиль
Quick tip: For MM prints in PS you can use the number keys to assign the extruder. It works when you select multiple parts as well. A good time saver I've found.
best tip ever :)
OH COOL! Thanks.
Great update Robert - very fascinating experiment. Not sure how you even sleep at night with all these cool ideas rattling around in your head. Just BRILLIANT. Thank you for the inspiration. 👍👍
Ha, who said I sleep?!
Thank you so much for this series of videos. I hope that Prusa is watching carefully and taking notes. You’re helping me make my decision whether to go for this beast or not. Given the current wait time, I’m optimistic that some of the slicer shortcomings will be resolved by the time that a printer ordered today will ship. When you do your video on soluble supports, I’d be interested to see how the two Prusa options for soluble support work out in practice - they have the option to print the entire support with soluble material, or to use regular filament for most of the support, and only use soluble at the interface.
Yeah, I think it will continue to improve. Most of their efforts are probably aimed more at getting input shaping going. The slicer already has options for everything on supports. You can just do the interface layer as soluble, the whole support, etc. I did a quick test and it works as you'd expect. But I just need to figure out how to get PVA to print well, it seems like a tricky filament.
Regarding the different speeds, you can set them on each individual piece. Right-click on the piece and then, once the window opens, scroll to settings and choose speed. There you can also select what to speed up or slow down.
Greetings from Italy
Eh, yeah, but you have to select different speeds for each aspect of the part. Setting the volumetric limit is far easier.
This does need an addition. The accelerations should also be changed for tpu.
A problem with having different saved setting tabs when many of the settings interact with one another between tabs.
Brilliant video, thanks. Really helped me make up my mind on whether to fulfill my pre-order.
Some useful tips both in your video and the comments.
Glad it was helpful!
Hi Robert, This is a great video again. Thanks for the content. Currently I use my UM3 and Cura extensively to print multi material with PLA/TPU combinations. The interlocking is a very handy feature and hopefully the guys at Prusa incorporate the feature into a future release. It is invaluable for me and will be needed for many projects when my XL comes.
Nice! I saw awhile back they stated it should be done in the design, but I think that's just wrong. Without knowing the layer height, material properties, etc, it makes it really tricky. It's been somewhat challenging doing the interfaces by hand, and they could be MUCH better if done in the slicer.
Nice video. It was refreshing to see your multi material and Prusa slicer experience. I tried to use Prusa slicer with my Sovol SV04 and ran into the material feed rate problem you also had. Good tip on changing the flow rate in the material properties. I was using Cura and it has the ability to handle different size nozzles for each extruder, I ran 0.4 on PLA with 0.5 on TPU. Cura also has more straightforward settings for the different materials on each head. I hope Prusa will have these features in the future.
I mean, from my testing it's absolutely usable, you just have to know what to adjust. I think TPU is just a special case since it prints so much slower. I think different bed temps is tricky, there's no real good way to handle it, just go with the higher one.
Great video! Great Series! Cant wait for the soluble video!
It might get pushed back, I have an idea I want to test...
Very informative and covering the stuff I really want to know. I love the style of presentation. Thank you vbery much.
Glad it was helpful!
Great to see this, nice work 😊
Just an FYI, TPU/TPE typically will have a strong chemical bond together with ABS and PC but not PLA as you already observed.
Also, BVOH is a better soluble support material than PVA, it's a bit more forgiving - just make sure you dry them properly before use. We've done tons of soluble supports testing mainly with ABS though, but if you have any questions, let me know!
Got it! I'll have to check it out. Thanks!
Really good. This was one of the main reasons I ordered a 2 tool XL, just not had time to try it yet.
Thanks!
Great video! And wow, what a fantastic machine.
Thank you very much!
Hey Robert. Great video again, I really discovered your account, excellent!
I am printing with a 0,6 and 0,4mm combined.
You indeed can only select 1 nozzle size in Prusaslicer. However, what I did is set the machine settings -> extruder x -> nozzle diameter to the 2 different sizes. Then, when you set the extrusion widths in percentages instead of flat mm values, it will set 2 different extrusion widths and so you can print 2 different nozzle sizes.
Also, smart play with the filament settings -> max VF. I did the rough same by adding M220 S30 to the filament start gcode and M220 S100 at the filament end gcode.
On the support side; you can also combine PETG and PLA, they do not bond well together and really work well as support for each other!
Might help you out.
Ohh wow this such great advice - I didn't know you can set the width in percentages instead of flat mm values. I will definitely try this too!
Got it, thanks!
Yeah, that's a good tip.
I am so glad to hear you will be trying out water-soluble supports looking forward to that video. BTW great video need to watch again to figure out how you used two different types of filaments not so much selecting but more the temperature adjustments you made.
That's not really in the video, I just bumped the temp down 10 degrees in the filament settings in the slicer.
Great video I have the same issues! Nice to see your work arounds...
Eh, I wouldn't consider them 'issues'. So far I haven't been unable to do something, it just takes more work. I think having a background in CNC machining makes me feel lucky that 3d printing is as straightforward as it is. When I have to machine a part, it can take several hours to prepare the CAM and it's not always right on the first try. The fact there is a slicer that does almost everything automatically with a few setting changes makes me feel spoiled.
Hi.
Great video, just FYI you can right click on the part you would like to change the speed for ( and a multitude of other settings) and select add settings then speed.
Correct, but you'd have to set different speeds for infill, bridging, walls, etc, etc. The volumetric limit seems to work more elegantly for me.
great job!
This series is starting to put the XL on my radar. I have X1Cs, and they are great for turning out single-material parts, but I don't really utilize them for more more than material+support that run at similar temperatures. A true toolchanger has been what I've wanted for years. Sad that the software isn't there, though. Who knows when multiple nozzle sizes will finally show up? It seems kinda straightforward to want a change nozzles, even with the *SAME* material. A detail nozzle (.6) infill nozzle for bulk printing with enhanced strength, another material or dedicated tearaway support, support interface, and then probably yet another material.
It'll be a brave new world! But I'm not buying until the software is ready - because Prusa is known to take awhile...
I wouldn't say the software isn't there, I never meant to give that impression. The thing I like about Prusa is you CAN do the thing, you just need to figure out how to do it. The settings are all there, it's just not overtly spelled out.
Great video. With 2.6.0 there came a feature for interlocking materials/colours. But I haven’t tried it yet.
„When using multi-material painting tool, there is now an option to enable interlocking of the painted patches with the neighboring segments. This improves connection of the patches. The setting is available in Print Settings->Advanced->Interlocking depth of a segmented region and it must be smaller than Maximum width of a segmented region , otherwise the setting is ignored.“
This is what I was wondering.. I thought it was in PS 2.6 but couldn't remember. I think he mentioned Cura.. which may have a similar feature? I would LOVE to see if this feature makes it so those of us not knowing how to use 3D programs like fusion360, can achieve pretty good results with multi head/material printers. In fact when I saw this feature coming in the early releases, I thought.. ooh.. perfect way to utilize multi head prints, which is why I am not trying to figure out which multi head printer to get (ProForge 4 is looking good but waiting on reviews/prints.. as it is 1/2 the price (with 4 heads), open source parts, and prints up to 800mm/s supposedly).
This just works with material painting, which only paints the surface. Robert is using 2 different files here..
Yes, but you could design it as one object and use the painting for the inner part and a designated area where you want to have the overlap.@@sandervanvoxel3d
Yeah, I really need to try this!
Very good video, forgot to say in my other post!!!
thanks!
FINALLY someone did it! Thank you sir. The reason why they haven't showcase something like this during launch campaign is beyond me.
They have not showcased it because if they told everyone you have to hack the slicer to use dissimilar materials in a multi-head $2k+ machine you have to wait years for it might impact sales;) I own a single head XL for larger prints and planned to expand to a 2nd head do this nearly same thing.. TPU and PETG. I am amazed how many complex hoops you have to jump through.
I'm not sure how many people would care about it? But who knows.
Complex hoops? It's pretty straightforward, you just need to slow down the TPU, with one setting.
Excellent! Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
This is top notch 3d printing content 💯. Would love to see someone print a phone case that has a TPU inner shell and petg or other hard material outer shell.
Ha, thanks, tell all your friends!
Good video, i expect PS to evolve fast with XL features, since i started 2020 its massively improved, if they can keep up with the pace it will surely be a great development of the printer capabilities for each new version.
For sure, I'm not worried. Prusa really did advance the slicer industry quite a bit, I don't see them stopping anytime soon.
I love my 5 toolheads xl. It printed tpu right away, no issues.
What brand of TPU are you using? I think the one I'm using is finnicky, I've always had some issues printing it.
Loving you're XL series.
I wouldn't waste your time on soluble supports. Use dissimilar materials - PETG to support PLA and vice versa. You can hard print them on each other and they easily pull apart.
This is literally one of the biggest things I love about the XL.
Soluble does have it's place for supporting an area that you cannot get to to remove supports.
One big issue with soluble support is having to submerge the object and risking water ingress that will be near impossible to get out.
I've been trying this, but the wipe tower is problematic as PETG and PLA don't mix at all, so it's like printing in mid-air. I need to play with it more, but for most of what I do (90 degree overhangs with a fully horizontal unsupported area), PETG and PLA combos don't work the way I'd want.
Finally a professional review. Rather then doing 1 print and having issues and putting some sort of extravagant title about how it doesn't work you actually did your due diligence.
Nice work.
A lot of reviewers are just trying to get out some content. I'm trying to use the thing. I'm not on a contract or getting paid for this, I'm just trying to see if it can do what I want for my purposes! This isn't my job like so many other channels. Glad you found it helpful.
This is awesome, thanks Robert. If you have the time, could you try printing something transparent and something opaque? I'm interested in trying to make light pipes.
Possibly! What's special about the XL that you want to see? This seems more specific to the filament and the slicer settings. I know others have done videos about it, and it comes down to geometry and specific slicing. I'm not sure the XL would be any different than any other 3d printer out there.
@@RobertCowanDIY I bought a makerbot replicator 2X when it first came out and I had very little luck with dual extrusion projects. The opaque filament smears into the translucent and the results aren't very crisp. what I like about the tool changer design is that it doesn't drag the other head around letting it ooze out onto the piece. I have a prusa xl on order, and while I wait I was just curious what a part printed with separate tool heads might look like when illuminated - especially with clear + black. If you do make one, I recommend printing your hair+glasses+beard logo and hang it up in the background of your videos like a neon sign.
Great video! Glad it worked out in the end. You had me worried for a bit. 😂 can’t wait for next video. Maybe our 5 head XL will be shipped this year… pfff who am I kidding. Year 3 is just around the corner. 😂 (playing Jeopardy theme song on a loop)❤😂
Yeah, I was waiting for nearly 2 years! But I'm glad it's here.
I am glad you got in to 3 D printen i Will learn a lot of you
hopefully!
Prusa slicer does have a interface system. What I did was still export the file as a STL but make it so that there is a very small gap between the parts so it shows up in the STL, then I used the fill option when painting, it automatically adds the interface when sliced.
Yeah? Can you explain a bit more? What 'interface' does it add? Are you aware of how Cura does it? It does some really cool interlocking geometry. If Prusa did something similar that would be amazing. Give me more details!
I had trouble getting PVA to print well, it is inconsistent and strange. But for supports, PET-G and PLA do not stick together and I have had great success with that combo in my IDEX Flashforge.
One other thing I have had success with on single head printers for overhangs is to stop after the top support later and run a glue stick over it. Prints well and separates nicely.
I tried PETG and PLA, but in my test it was an elevated flat area, which didn't work since the material wouldn't lay on top of the other. With angled support, it might work fine. I need to mess with it more.
Thank you for this video and the idea to combine two materials as you did. I dont know if someone mentioned this earlier: When it comes to slicing, maybe use simplify3d. There you can easily assign different speeds to different processes.
I think Simplify3D has been outclassed by modern slicers. I could be wrong, but ~5 years ago it used to be a premium solution to slicers, but it seems to have lagged quite a bit behind. Plus, there's a lot of special stuff that PrusaSlicer is doing with the XL. There are updates almost weekly now. I think there have been 3 updates since this video was released. One day it will support all the features people want.
In the printer settings tab you can change the nozzle diameter per extruded.
Gotcha, you're right. I'll see if I can try that and see what happens.
Great work, thank you for doing this. I'm looking forward to your other MM tests and tips. I have a 5 head on reserve, waiting for more reviewsike yours.
One question for the design, did you build in any tolerance between the PLA and TPU?
Nope, no tolerance, the parts are touching, but not overlapping.
I've been researching the soluble support printing for quite some time. I'd bet that your video will help lots of people, cant wait to see that.
I'll see what I can come up with. It seems to be tricky so far, but I think the material is finnicky, I'll keep messing with it.
Thanks for the video, they are so detailed and you go over everything! Great that you got it the multi material sorted, the difference between the first and last prints is insane. I've got a single head XL and waiting on them releasing the 5 toolhead kits, I eagerly await each of your videos 😅
I see so many people do a SINGLE print and say it's stringing and that's that! Dry the filament, tune your settings, etc, etc. Just some minor tweaks can make huge differences.
Great video! I wonder why your results are so much better than those that Teaching Tech experienced. TT had a lot of stringing with fairly poor multi-material prints.
Yeah, he and I have been talking a lot (as he mentioned in his video). I'm not sure why his results are so different than my own. I'm going do to more testing. I suspect I do far less 'cosmetic' prints that require a lot of fine detail and tons of small retractions and color changes. I'm going to try some different types of prints and see if I can replicate his results. I get a tiny bit of stringing, but nothing really all that noticeable, and in line with what I've heard is normal for a larger nozzle.
@@RobertCowanDIY Thanks for the reply! I'm sure all of us would like to get to the bottom of this and ensure high quality prints from the XL. 3D Print Dogs seemed to come up with a simple resolution for their stringing by going to max Y before the Z lift, but I gather it was not that simple for TT. Have you tried printing those clown fish on your XL?
@@jonbondyI only have a dual extruder, so I can't do that exact model. I guess I could cut it down to just two colors though. I might try that.
Prusaslicer 2.6.1 has 'interlocking of painted areas for better MMU printing". Not fully automatic as Cura's 'material interlocking', but it seems to be there.
OOOOH, I'll have to check that out. I wish it wasn't 'painted', I wish it could detect interfaces, but I'll give it a shot.
I have done some tpu and pla printing with the MK3SMMU2S, found some of the same things you have. On changing the print speed settings, you can right click on a part and add a settings modifier, this allows you to change all kinds of settings, like speeds, temps, infill, perimiters etc. At the time I was doing this, it did not adhere to the filament configured temps. So the TPU was printing with the PLA settings. I was able to get around that with the settings changes. Did not figure this out on my own, found it somewhere on the internet.
Yeah, I found that later, but changing ALL those settings seems like a pain in the ass. Just setting the volumetric limit seems more convenient for me.
Thanks! Great video! Love that you added that microscope section.
So, printing PLA on top of TPU is also no problem? Or does that only work if it's a relative small area. Suppose you have a situation where a 10 by 10 cm flat surface of PLA must be printed over with a 10 by 10 cm layer of TPU? Will there be no issue with the fact that the two do not bond so well? Or are they sticky enough at print tempertures? I don't know any realistic situation where I would need such large horizontal flat plane areas of contact, just wondering about the limits. My 5 toolheads Prusa XL will take at least a few months to arrive, so bit hard for me to test this out myself. Anyway, I know it's not a prusa xl topic, but more a materials related topic in general, but maybe you have some insight on this?
Huh, I'm not sure. They probably wouldn't bond very well. But I've heard that other materials might (like PETG or ABS/ASA). I'd have to see if there was an appropriate application for it.
You can change the nozzle diameter for each extruder under the printer settings tab and then change each extruder seperatly. But stuff like Wallthickness and co. will stay the same (as they are set up in the print tab and count globally for the whole print)
Correct. It would be nice to more conveniently use two different nozzles in the same print.
Nice Solidworks tip. I have been using 3MF but ded not know that.
Glad to help
Prusa acknowledged the different nozzle sizes when the XL was announced. They said it was something they “were considering.” Usually this means that they’re looking into it but haven’t made a choice of implementing it based on how hard it’ll be.
I’ve seen other comments about changing nozzle extrusion widths of multiple nozzles in PrusaSlicer, but I wonder if this leads to other issues with quality. Given how fine tooth people are being over the MK4 and Input Shaping, I can understand why Prusa doesn’t want to just use/endorse this method.
That being said, the other things you brought up about print speed and filament settings need to be addressed. If I only want to print in PLA with different colors, great. Even PLA and PETG have similar enough settings I can see why Prusa used them together in their showcase prints. But I’m not buying a 5 tool head printer just for color swaps.
The XL’s biggest edge is the ease of combining all types of 1.75mm filament and its open source nature. Features like material interfacing (from Cura), per nozzle settings, individual nozzle sizes, and allowing for OctoPrint need to be addressed, if anything just to quiet down the Prusa haters.
Got it. For right now it's not limiting (mostly because I don't have any different nozzles), but I would like to have a variety of sizes.
Thanks for this interesting video !! Can you tell us a little bit more about the TPU filamant used, and the temperature of your final essay, please? What are the provider recommandations for it, and what temp used for this quite perfect print? Thanks in advance. Stephane.
I'm using matterhackers pro TPU. I just went 5 degrees cooler than the stock Prusament TPU setting.
Great video, thanks for sharing! What microscope or magnification lens did you use? Seems super useful to have around.
It's just some USB microscope I got free a long time ago, I think I have a video about it, but am too lazy to find it! It's just something cheap from amazon.
Appreciate it!@@RobertCowanDIY
Great work! So my preorder just got approved for this printer. Would you be able to tell me which build sheet surface you like best for PLA, TPU and PETG? Or perhaps the satin powder is good for everything. Are there any other parts / accessories that you think would be wise to add to the cart on purchase?
I like the satin and the textured for different purposes. There's not a single build plate that's great for everything, but with those two, I find I can do everything I want.
Hi Robert! Since I last commented 3 months ago I received my 5 head XL (Glad to see you upgraded as well!), and wanted your thoughts on PETG for supporting PLA? I used the Prusa guide and have been test printing for a week now, and for the life of me I cant get my PETG to stick at all on my PLA, either the purge tower or as an interface. Have you had any luck with this?
Larger nozzles allow for higher maximum flow rates (the restriction is reduced) up to the heater capacity.
Correct. I shouldn't generalize in videos ;-)
Great video, thank you! I do have a question, your very first print when you pull the inner TPU part out, the interfacing feature that you had shown in Solidworks was not there. Was that how PrusaSlicer sliced it?
I had not added the interlocking features yet. I just wanted to test the adhesion between TPU and PLA. I figured it would be poor, but I wanted to test it first. All prints after that had the interlocking feature added.
For different nozzles, look at the sovol sv04 community, some have adapted prusa slicer to be able to print with the sv04 IDEX printer
Thanks. I'll take a look.
Hi! Great to see how this has to be designed and made! Glad for the work you are doing on the XL, as you mentioned in your previous videos and how you wanted to use water soluble supports, I wanted to know if there have been issues you ran into as that is probably the #1 reason for waiting on my XL preorder still! Thanks!
I've messed around with them a bit, but ultimately learned it's maybe not the right way to go. PVA prints terribly and there are other options I'm looking at based on feedback in the comments. It's not a fault of the printer, but a limitation of the material.
@@RobertCowanDIY dang thats a shame since i have a spool waiting on the shelf haha, interested to see what you come up with as an alternative then and cant wait for the video where you figure it out!
@@BaioWithMayo Yeah, I'll try it out a bit more. I'm trying to do a full cantilevered support, where the bottom layer is near perfect. This seems tricky. Steep overhangs are easy enough, but 90 degree overhangs are harder since it's a flat surface underneath and needs full support. I'll keep working at it.
@@RobertCowanDIY interesting and I can see how that ends up being an issue. Is this using the PVA as a full support structure or just as the interface?
Personally, I find the value in water soluble less so in the "impossible prints" and more in a 0 gap interface that is easy to remove perfectly clean. Now can it be done much easier with a PLA using PETG as support? That's likely, but the dissolve seemed cool enough to try.
I think you are doing XL content the best on youtube right now so will be happy to see more as time goes on!
@@BaioWithMayo PVA just prints so horribly that traditional or even organic supports do a better job, it's tricky getting the PVA to be reliable enough to make it worthwhile. I've tried it as just an interface as well as a full support and the results are equally 'meh'. I've also tried PETG and PLA, but prime tower become an issue. I may make an update video as I have time. There is some promise there, but there are some tricks!
When you drafted the 2 parts in CAD did you cut away the geomtry in the middle of the outside part so that the 2 parts nested together with matching geomtry, or did you just creat the positive geometry on the inside part and leave it protruding into the outside part as interference / overlaping models?
They nest together with matching geometries. Any overlap or interference would create problems, as the extruder would be depositing material in the same spot twice.
Yeah, perfect, so the machine wasn't really ready for launch and even the slicer can not really keep up with the expectations for this machine...
Because come on, we all thought about multi material printing and different material need different speed and print settings.
So every extruder head needs different print settings...
Hope that prusa will work on this, because that was really the idea that I had in mind when I placed my order for this machine.
5 head with multi-material printing with different nozzle diameters.
It is obvious to want that from this machine isn't it?
Really great videos you do about this machine. Very very nice 👍👍
I'm not sure how you got that from the video. It's a complicated machine and needs to be understood. Taking a slicer that was designed for a single extruder and trying to make it work with various extruders AND still work with single extruder machines (and be forked and reworked for the rest of the industry) is tricky. Printing two completely different materials is tricky and it does work, you just need to think through the process.
Great video - had to subscribe immediately for more like this 😁
Why would you want to print with a 1mm large nozzle? You just stated before that it does not matter what nozzle you use since it's all about volumetric flow rate. But then, I thing the volumetric flow rate is dependent on the nozzle as well as on the heater capacity since with a 0.2 nozzle the pressure in the extruder will become much higher than with a 0.8 nozzle.
I never understood why print speeds are defined in the print profile and not in the material profile. Regular PLA needs way different settings than something like TPU, PP or Carbon filled Nylon. I think (hope) we will see a lot of changes to be able to have a more user friendly slicing setup for our multi material prints
From my understanding, a bigger nozzle will give you a fatter line width at the same layer height. You can use this for thicker outer walls, instead of just doing several.
Definitely try other brands of TPU but I think all TPUs are eventually going to absorb enough moisture to cause print quality issues unless you make effort to dry them or keep them dry.
Correct, any materials that need drying, I dry WHILE printing. It helps a lot.
you can add a modifiers for different speed
Correct, but you'd have to set different speeds for infill, bridging, walls, etc, etc. The volumetric limit seems to work more elegantly for me.
That final product looks really good.
Have you tried TPU and PETG? They will actually bond together. I don't have a dual extruder machine, but I've had success sandwiching PETG between layers of TPU. The bond isn't super strong, but it's pretty good. On my early experiments (where I messed up the filament change) I was able to get a fingernail under the TPU and pull it off with some force, but none of them peel apart without deliberate force. I had the best results when I sliced it twice, once for TPU and once for PETG, then manually spliced the gcode together into a 3rd file.
Check out my newest video, just dropped today.
This is really cool, I definitely wish the Bambu Lab AMS would allow for TPU + any other material printing. It is annoying that you cannot do multiple nozzle diameters yet with the toolchanger, but I'm sure Prusaslicer will make it easier to do toolchanger things eventually. Dissolvable support is one thing I was really hoping to get into with Bambu but the AMS as it turns out is not airtight enough to store PVA or even most Nylon filaments for long which is a shame. For single material prints tho the X1C has been fantastic for me so far, and I can print TPU about 7 times faster than you showed here (flow rate 14mm^3/s).
Hey Seth! A couple points of clarity, I didn't say you couldn't do multiple nozzle diameters, I'm just not sure how to do it yet. But a few people pointed out a few suggestions, so I'll try those. Also I printed TPU slowly just to remove that as a variable, I'm sure it COULD print much faster, I was just removing as many variables as possible. But I think dissolvable support will be a neat tool to have. I've done some tests with PLA and PETG, but if you're doing flat supports (not sloping walls), it really doesn't work as the materials won't lay on top of each other reliably enough for support. Regarding the AMS, I wonder if someone could make it into a filament dryer as well? It should be doable and would make it quite a bit more versatile.
@@RobertCowanDIY That filament dryer idea sounds like the real ams mod waiting to be made. All it would take is what, drilling a few holes, a power source and a PCB with a heater?
No way that isnt also a part of the next ams.
@@BeefIngotYeah, that's what I was thinking, it should be fairly simple. I've seen a lot of mods where it introduces more desiccant into it, but that's really not good at actively removing moisture, it's just to make sure additional moisture doesn't enter the filament.
hey, you should try PETG as support interface material when printing PLA (and just print the support structure as the same PLA as the print to minimize extruder swaps). I think that's what Bambu does for their PLA support. it's not PVA as it isn't water soluble, and others have tested using PETG in its place and said it worked great, so I figured you could do the same. everyone has PETG laying around, so if you do, and you have multi material, you can use that to make a clean interface between the support and the part that will come apart clearly. you can get nearly bottom layer quality bottom surfaces under supports when you use this method. it's pretty slick. I haven't tried on my Prusa because I don't have MM on my Prusa but Bambu sliver is based on Prusa slicer and it allows separate support material vs support interface (the layer that touches the part), so I assume Prusa does too
Yeah, I should try that. I've heard it works well. I don't think many applications actually NEED soluble supports, but it's a nice thing to test. The slicer absolutely allows for a zero-interface, only at the interface, etc. It's easy to change between them.
I have the same machine. Tried to run PVA initially but it was basically burning. The XL seems to run hotter than my Mk3s+’s. Polymaker PC was stringing badly until I lowered the temps. I need to try PVA again now that I know it tends to run hot. FWIW, I’m getting ready to run some Polymaker PA6/CF - initial tests were bad, 12 hours was not enough drying time. I’m 24 hours in now in a lab grade convection oven and will run soon. I sent you a DM on Facebook.
Yeah, PVA didn't work on the first test for me. I'll check facebook, I ignore most messages since I get a ton every day and it's mostly people trying to get me to make things for them.
I have a diamondback nozzle in #2 I think that made the problem worse.@@RobertCowanDIY
@@iimuch3760 Interesting. I've heard from other people that the Diamondback nozzles transmitted heat better than brass, so they needed to adjust temps. I personally never had that issue, but I heard others say it.
3:00 Prusa has already confirmed that the next Prusaslicer version will support interfacing for different materials though it will be different from what you did there.
their implementation will basically have an area where the slicer will printer alternating layers of each material so the layers are interwoven in the internal structure.
that should technically be even stronger overall as it maximizes the contact area between the different filaments.
Gotcha! Yeah, that's what I would like to have. Doing it in CAD is tedious and really gets in the way of designing the parts (since there are so many mating references that need to be destroyed, etc). This is best done in the slicer.
Did you ever do PVA support testing video I don’t see a vid on that on you channel? That’s why I’m buying an XL.
I tried it, but never really had good luck with it. I think there are probably better options, but I don't currently have a need for supports and didn't want to waste more material on testing. If I need a supports solution, I'll investigate further.
having seen how clean the first prints TPU exterior is, makes me wonder if you printed another layer of PLA on the cutouts of insert. Like formwork. You could just pop them out at the end...
That's one of the reasons why I popped it out ;-) It's good, it gets rid of all the zits for sure. You could print a 'shell' around a TPU part to create a better surface finish. Also, what about using a textured filament like a carbon fiber to give TPU a texture as well?
Hi there i have a question, is it possible when printing if i have the exact same type of filament. And the first spool runs out, can it automatically pickup on the next spool? I want to make sure when I'm away or asleep and run out of filament it can pick up on the second i would like to see how that happens. Thank you
I'm not sure this is an option. I haven't seen a way to do this.
The old MMU 2 had this, but only if you sliced the project as a single material print on a multimaterial printer. So at least it’s something Prusa are familiar with. Hopefully they’ll do it as a firmware option at some point.
@@ChrisAbbeyGood to know!
How do you recycle PLA melted together with TPU? I guess it's rather difficult to separate them, especially the waste tower?
Once they're mixed, you wouldn't be able to properly recycle them unfortunately.
nozzle size do matter when it comes to mm3/s. A bigger nozzle usually allows you to push out more plastic. You can also use tpu for tpu when printing PLA or mix max filaments that dont bond and use that as support. Way cheaper also.
Got it.
Can TPU be set up for MK3S+ with MMU3. I have printed quite a bit of TPU, but it is not showing as an option for this combo?
I'm not sure, I've never used the MMU3.
I'm also interested in petg/tpu. It's a common combo for me.
I did a test print the other day and it seems to work pretty much the same. I have another video coming up showing the two together. The process was no different.
Well how did you made the TPU and PLA bond better on that layer? was this the side of the first layer, which will "squish" it more?
I'm not sure what you mean? They aren't 'bonded' the internal geometry means they are locked together.
@@RobertCowanDIY Oh, so the plastic parts are not "fused" together if I'm understanding you correctly?
@@blubbertje321Correct, the PLA and TPU don't really melt together, so you need some sort of interlocking feature to keep them together. They 'stick', but not really fuse. PETG and TPU though DO fuse, check out my other video on it.
What TPU were you using for this print? About to tackle this!
I think it was matterhackers pro series TPU. It's 'ok'.
Is there an option to turn off the wipe tower?
Yep, it's a simple check-box in the settings.
Good video. Maybe you could export the design in parts, and label them appropriately in Fusion 360 or whatever CAD software. Then in PrusaSlicer, use G-code substitution and regex to vary the speed.
You could. There is an option in the slicer, but you can't apply a print profile, you just need to change the speed on everything (walls, infill, top layers, bridging, etc). It's in the same place as when you select the extruder.
@@RobertCowanDIY this applies speeds globally, doesn't it? Was referring to individual parts. Sure, a modifier mesh could be applied but breaking into parts on the CAD side would be far more accurate and faster in terms of workflow. ✌🏼
@@brisanceI'm not exactly sure what you mean?
@@RobertCowanDIY apologies for being unclear. Currently, print speed settings are applied globally, as you explained in your video. However, on Fusion 360, you can label and specify which part is TPU, and which is PLA. Therefore, you can export the model with this information into PrusaSlicer. Then, from within PrusaSlicer, you can use modifiers to alter the printing speed of the TPU part or the PLA part, as appropriate.
Hi, what are you referring to when you say “interfaces”?
The 'interface' between the two materials. In Cura you can actually add 'zippers' between the two for better adhesion between both materials.
For TPU I treat it just like a gummy PLA, 5mm^3/s volumetric, 205c nozzle(5c higher than most of my PLAs), 60c bed, and a retraction speed over-ride to 30mm/s instead of 40mm/s. When I tune filaments, if the Pressure-Advance arrows aren't ending up cleanest around 0.02s on direct drives.. then that usually lets me know I have something pretty wrong with temp or speeds.
Also I think PETG and TPU bond better but I might not be remembering, another YT'er did an in-depth bonding test and now I can't find it or figure out what it was called to verify my memory of it..!
I just printed PETG and TPU together and they SEEM to bond well, but we'll see.
So what's the max speed/acceleration this machine can do?
It depends on what you're doing? The XL doesn't tout speed and acceleration numbers. It also doesn't have input shaping yet, so who knows. It's faster than a MK3, but slower than a Bambu X1C. Speed isn't what it does well.
Actually there is a way to control the speed. Been doing that on my caribouduet, but with other settings. Just rightclick the body in the list on the right, like when assigning the extruder. There you can add options to that body. Perimeter speed etc.
You went over the option with your mouse, it's "add settings" at 5:05.
Yeah, I'm aware but you need to control each piece one by one. It's much easier and more effective to just set a volumetric limit.
@@RobertCowanDIY you can just export each group of pieces which share the same settings, as a seperate 3mf (in your cad programm). Then you simply click your model, select "add part" -> "load" and add those parts to the model, in Prusaslicer. The whole bunch of pieces, imported as one 3mf, can then be controlled as if it were one single piece and is imported directly to the right spot (same relative spot as in your cad).
@@RobertCowanDIY and if you dont want to export it as one 3mf, you can copy and paste all the settings of one piece, to another piece, with a single click. It's the copy and paste icon in the middle.
I would love a follow up on printing with two different nozzle diameters.
Got it. For right now I'm not sure how it would be done, but I can look into it more.
@@RobertCowanDIYYou can't change nozzle size per extruder under the 'printer settings' tab?
@@JeffDMYep, I just realized that. Like I said, I hadn't really looked into it yet.
I wish you showed us it's use and where it's for it seems like a cool idea for a lot of things :)
I wanna make a tool changer again but money and energy :|
It's just a test. For my robots, I want all the drive components to have integrated TPU bushings around the bearings and such. The final part would be FAR more complicated, so not good at testing. The particular part I'm thinking of would be a ~10 hour print per part, which isn't good to test with.
i love prusa slicer, tis been my go to for years, but I've always said ti sucks for multi material, that was 2-in-1-out setups, with IDEX and toolchangers its only going to get worse, I hope they don't drag their heels and actually try to work on this quickly
Yeah, once they figure it out, Bambu can finally release an dual extruder printer, hah.
well the max volumetric depends a lot on the nozzle size.
..which got painfully obvious back in the day with a 0.2...
Ha, true.
Im gone order one but can’t find extra print heads ?
The print heads aren't sold separately yet. You have to buy it with the number of print heads you want (for right now). As soon as they make extra heads available, I'm getting another 3.
@3:48 .step would work as well. 3mf is just a zipfile with .step inside it.
Got it. I'll try that and confirm it works the same way.
I ordered a 5 Head XL eons ago. But I have no Hope to get it this year.
Saw a couple folks posting videos with 5 heads. It will be worth the wait especially if by the time you get it the input shaping is in and ironed out so that you get hopefully much faster print speeds.
Yeah, I think those were people that ordered the first day. I'm eagerly waiting until I can order more tool heads, I'll be getting all 5 the day they're offered.
@@RobertCowanDIY I ordered mine first day too but my payment failed somehow. So I had to reorder. I am patiently waiting in line hoping most flaws will be gone when I get mine next year.
@@snuupsOh bummer. Did you reach out to see if they could put you back in line? That sucks you had to re-order and go back to the beginning.
@@RobertCowanDIY Yes, I asked for it but I could ne see any change in line. Maybe it is then I get mine sooner. I already have projects for it. And no. I am not buying an other large printer. Most printer I have are MK4 now and some Mini+
Prusa Slicer doesnt have different speed settings for the different exteuders? That kind of defeats the purpose of the multiple extruders. I want one for multi material, and I need to be able to set individual settings for each extruder.
Right NOW it doesn't, but they're making changes weekly. But for right now, there are workarounds.
Cura can bond materials properly. Prusa doesn't do it yet.
Yep, I literally made a video about this ;-)
@@RobertCowanDIY haha shit ok. Good job.
In prusa slicer right click the tpu part, at the bottom there is a button for settings for that part. Select speed and change it all to your tpu speed.
Profit
Correct, but you'd have to set different speeds for infill, bridging, walls, etc, etc. The volumetric limit seems to work more elegantly for me.
@@RobertCowanDIY I can respect that. I just copy paste one speed into all the spots and I know one day I will face the results. I'll consider your approach
@@TheInfoPlaceI make no claims about what's better, this is just what worked well for me.
A time lapse would be awesome
What are you looking to see from it?
@RobertCowanDIY the tool change, also would be nice to have noches on the inside of the piece to avoid sliding straight and going out of the piece anyway, I could make an example on fusion if I'm not being clear in this comment
@@cai0proencaI show the tool changing on my previous video. But I could do a nice time-lapse showing how it switches between nozzles.
@@RobertCowanDIY i actually saw it, i just enjoy time lapses, and with this system is even more awesome 😬😬
@@cai0proencaHa, got it. If I have a neat model that requires multiple extruders, I'll have to remember to make a timelapse.
I have contacted prusa about the different nozzle sizes and right now there is no solution to that... sure it is on the roadmap...
I'm just going to try what other people have said and change the nozzle diameter in print settings. I have a 0.4mm nozzle, so I'll try a 0.4 and 0.6 in the same print and see what happens.
@@RobertCowanDIY don't think that works cause you cant define it per extruder
@@fanatic_jokaActually, in Prusaslicer, under printer settings, they have options for each extruder, and I just checked, you CAN set a different nozzle diameter for each extruder.
@@RobertCowanDIYthat is correct, but you can't change extrusion width, cause sadly it is general set by the "Print Settings" -> "Advanced"
@@fanatic_jokaGotcha!
So prusa has the printer but not the slicer for this machine they have a lot of work
I'm not sure what you mean?
the different size of nozzels and the speeds for every toolhead. i bought the 5 toolheads and i hope i can choose everything for each head separate. @@RobertCowanDIY
Thoughts: I could be wrong (I would check if I weren't lazy), but I swear Bambulab has the multiple speeds per filament set up, and therefore OrcaSclier (based on it) should as well, so I have to imagine it's only a matter of time for Prusa to backport the feature, but then again they still haven't backported multiple plates, nor added skew compensation to the mini (yes someone remembers) so you know, only a matter of _Prusa_ time.
As for the prints, this is pretty much what I've been waiting to see from day one but Ive yet to see other people post similar or when they do, they say it's an unmitigated disaster, but I had to imagine someone would figure out the settings, because in theory it doesn't seem that hard, and I've done the ol pause and switch to tpu myself.
You can just see this machine oozing with potential (pun intended). Many of the problems seem fixable via software. It's just a question of will Prusa get around to it while we all are still even using fff printers.
As for volumetric flow, I kinda want to point out that it's not just volumetric flow per filament, but also acceleration before notable quality loss and retraction. I also suspect there is something we aren't really all meausirng yet to do with how fast a system can adapt to heat loss through filament, where the bigger the block, the longer that feedback takes to come into consideration, practically lowering volumetric flow in a way that would not be noticeable with traditional steady flow tests. But also, I basically just wanted to say tpu can actually be printed pretty fast (You can find some really insanely fast printed, good quality, good layer adhesion prints out there on UA-cam if you look), so when input shaping comes, you're gunna have a fun time, and by fun time, I mean less time waiting even for the fancy prints.
As for the made up useless part, I immediately thought weapon bearing shock absorbers for the lighter weight classes, and or wheel shock mounts, with variable stiffness.
"but then again they still haven't backported multiple plates, nor added skew compensation to the mini"
Lol they don't need to, you literally just select from the printer what plate you're using and it includes your set Z offset. My MK3 has 6 different plate settings saved. When I'm using my smooth sheet, I choose "smooth1" which has it's set offset and I choose "texture2" when using a textured build plate. i don't have to re adjust Z at all when switching between plates.
And you don't need skew compensation if you actually assembled your printer correctly. And the mini makes it incredibly easy to adjust skew just by adjusting belt tension.
Many people seem to interpret this video as negative, but I think it's quite positive. For CNC CAM software, you need to tweak it a LOT to get the results you want. If you want to print two different materials together, I would expect you need to check a few boxes and adjust some settings. The whole process was better than I initially expected, some amount of tweaking will be a given. And your thoughts were exactly right, wheel shock mounts, compliant bearings, TPU wheel with solid hub, etc, etc.
the load cell makes adjusting the offset for each plate irrelevant.
I am still confused, why every obe is using a wipe tower on the XL. You have two different toolheads, so i guess you do not need a wipe tower.
Can you please try to print this with wipe tower disabled? That would be interessting,
Or print two PLA colors without a wipe tower.
It just reduces stringing. The filament becomes really liquid as it is sitting a while in the hotend. Then when it moves to the print, it will have a different consistency and create a tiny bit of underextrusion at the start
@@georgh.9814
I think it's more of like a prime tower. When the tool change happens some filament is going to ooze out and the nozzle needs to be primed so you don't get holes or blobs in your part.
Ultimately no one has solve the ooze problem.
You can try cooling down the hotend really quickly and that makes it better, though switches take longer, but ultimately, you want that nozzle to be primed when it goes back into action, and that means you want the filament right at the tip, filling it, without ooze. The only way to really make sure of that, is a prime tower. I should note that it's the reason that Bambulab also has one despite the poop chute. Prime towers serve a different purpose than purge towers. They may look the same, and you could even say a prime tower is the square to the purge towers rectangle, but they are indeed different.
i think there was a forum post somewhere around where someone printed on the XL with no prime tower and had no issue. Saddly mine is still not here, so i can not test this.
Small nozzles are kind of useless. They make it possible to make sharper corners but 99% of the time, why would you need a .2mm radius (.4mm nozzle) vs a .3mm radius of a .6mm nozzle? If you honestly need a sharp detail like that, FDM isn't really the process you want to be using. So unless you need .4mm thick walls or .2mm minimum radius, a .6mm nozzle is usually a better choice. Especially if you are running 1.75dia TPU, a .8mm would be even better.
I haven't personally experienced it, but I've always heard that larger nozzles string a lot worse. Variable aperture nozzles would be cool. There's one company out there doing it.
I had a ton of problems with TPU clogging on a .4mm noz. Moved to a .6mm and the problems went away. I can't comment on the stringing other than I haven't noticed any changes other than faster prints and less clogs.@@RobertCowanDIY
Overpriced, over-engineered and DOA. Bambu licking their lips right now. Eat your heart out Josef.
Ha, OK.
lmao, couple of thousand bucks and still using a knob to control the barely 3 inch interface, get real Prusa.
Everyone has their preference. Touchscreens LOOK cool, but are a pain for setting temperatures! I love pressing a little 'up' arrow 50 times to get to a a number. I much prefer a rotary encoder and non-touch screen. But that's just me! I do like the look of a big touchscreen, but I prefer actually using a rotary encoder, you can get to settings quicker and make adjustments easier, IMO.