Modello 1928 Tromboncino Grenade Launcher
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- Опубліковано 28 тра 2017
- In 1928, the Italian army adopted a rifle-mounted grenade launcher. It was a potentially interesting weapon which wound up being fatally handicapped by the use of ineffective grenades. The basic idea was to mount a second rifle receiver to the side of a Model 91TS carbine, but with an integral grenade cup instead of a barrel. The trigger of the carbine was modified with an addition linkage to operate the sears on both receivers. When firing a grenade, the bolt would be removes from the carbine receiver and installed into the grenade launching receiver.
The most unique part of the design was in the grenade cup. Instead of using blank style grenade cartridges, the Tromboncino used standard ball ammunition to launch grenades. When the round was seater in the chamber, the front of the bullet was held firmly in place by a threaded plug in the front of the chamber. Upon firing, the bullet could not move forward, so the neck of the case would burst open, venting the propellent gas around the bullet and through vent holes into the base of the grenade cup, thereby throwing the grenade.
This system was quite clever, as it did not require any special ammunition types but also did not require designing a grenade which was capable of safely catching a fired projectile. However, the tactical use intended was for troops to use grenades in the immediate opening of a close assault, and so the grenades were designed to be concussion type more than fragmentation, to ensure that they could be used in relatively close quarters without injuring the firer. The result was a grenade design which was not effective enough on the enemy to be of much actual use, however, and most of the Modello 1928 carbines were decommissioned in the mid 1930s.
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When Battlefield V adds guns no one has seen or heard of. Time to visit Gun Jesus.
Hahaha...ikr! Finally some love for medic class
The game may not be as historically accurate but the gear and weapons are very accurate
And this way all these videos appear in my time line also I am not really interested in guns. But the videos of those guys are good and informative, also I am to much European to totally agree with all their views.
Ryan Otter haha right?!??!!
Ryan Otter IKR!
Tromboncino = little trumpet XD
adorable XD
not exactly but mostly; and he also butchered every pronunciation x) but it's okay
Tromboncino in italian gun terms is Flash Hider tho
@@IlNamelessKinglI spegnifiamma🤔
@@IlNamelessKinglI Spegnifiamma
3 reasons I'm here:
1) title has an amazing name
2) title has grenade launcher in it
3) it's a forgotten weapons video so I'm gunna be here anyway
Tromboncino sounds quite funny in italian actually :-)
Giuseppe Puglisi tutti per il tromboncino 😂
Ce li scegliamo proprio fighi i nomi per le armi noi ;-)
little trombone?
That's right.
Ian, have you ever considered getting an endoscope camera for looking inside weird things like that? A USB endoscope camera for a phone is quite cheap. I have seen them as low as $20.
You just want him to check if he ate your yoghurt.
I'm calling right here guys. This rifle is going to be in the next Battlefield game as a level 10 gun.
C.A. Rocha It'd be nice to see a Carcano in BF1, I don't know why they left it out.
They had to make room for more experimental prototypes that never saw combat.
Or it'll be in CoD WW2 as a supply drop (A.K.A. "Pay To Win") exclusive gun, probably as a sniper rifle (I know that it actually isn't, but I doubt Activision will care), because who doesn't want to 360 noscope with a grenade launcher sniper rifle?
...I think I'm a bit sick after writing that.
Mitchell Mainey I'm certainly sick reading it
ShadowOfDeath24 I'm betting the next Battlefield will either be a modern combat game (like 3 or 4) or a remake of Battlefield 2142. (2143?) Personally I hope it's '2143' because by jove 2142 was incredible. Pisses all over the future based CoDs.
I'm surprised they never tried fixing the explosives issues as opposed to scrapping the whole idea. Seems like a waste to be honest.
i have to agree with you
Having extra bolts issued to soldiers for the launcher probably would've been feasible. Weight would've been minimal.
The SR2 bomb was filled with 32gr of TNT, into an iron case, and with an iron spiral around it to ensure fragmentation. The explosive filling was inferior to the later (from 1944) US MKII hand grenades, but superior to the earlier ones, so I wouldn't deem them as "ineffective". The bomb was designed to contain it's effects in a 50m range, and so the shooter was instructed to not shoot at closer distances (see "Istruzione provvisoria sull'uso della bomba S.R.2 con governale"). It was not the bomb, simply they decided to ditch the whole idea.
It was replaced by the Brixia mortar, that, being able of direct ant indirect fire, and having a far higher ROF, was deemed to be a better solution.
welcome to italy
@@Clay3613 the injury received from a bolt flying into your skull would be enough to keep you from replacing it. Or uh, ever doing anything again. So no reason to carry more than one.
A side mounted grenade launcher in 1928? I don't care if it's flawed! God damnit, that's awesome.
the best damn gun channel on UA-cam period.
im italian...and this make me happy to watch! thanks man for your work
I love how much you've grown over the years, Ian. I was watching some older videos the other day and you were noticeably awkward and nervous. Don't get me wrong, you were still great, it was just striking to see how far you've come. Keep up the great work its the standard by which everyone else should grade their work.
I'd argue this could have been incredible for naval use, although more for flares and lines than actual explosives
The current French APAV40 rifle grenade is a bullet-trap design used with standard service ammo.
You got it in one. The best.
Isn't a modern 7,62x51 barrel version? A bullet trap one without attchments needed?
i wonder how many guys "acquired" an extra bolt so they wouldnt have to switch back and forth.
They would still have to remove each bolt to prevent both a bullet and a grenade from firing at the same time
@@duncanmcgee13 or they could just not have a round in the grenade launcher... Ya know, the easy way.
@@marcusborderlands6177 and what happens when you attempt to fire a grenade? How do you prevent a round from being fired?
don't have a round in the chamber? Literally just push down the cartridges with your finger when you rack the bolt so no round is in the main gun...
@@marcusborderlands6177 sounds like a lot of extra effort to add weight to the side of your gun when you can just slide the one bolt straight in and out the back of both recievers
And now I know. I've seen photos of these weapons, but never read a description of how they worked. An elegant design. Thanks Ian.👍👍
When I read "tromboncino" I'm imagining some Italian guy yelling it at the top of his lungs like the soldiers in Assassin's Creed 2 yell "Assassino!"
🤣
Probably the Italians tried to adapt the tactics of WW I Arditi stormtroopers. They preferred non-fragment hand grenades, because they were trained to close quarters combat in extreme: daggers and revolvers. This idea didn't work on Russian steppes, though... longer range became extremely important.
I feel like DICE just watches forgotten weapons when they run out of ideas.
Wow, this video was epic. Never heard of a system like this for projectile grenades.
That is such a brilliant idea. Why was this not expanded upon or experimented with further in the war? Probably is the best squad level GL design I've seen from that time period. Must have been pricey to manufacture though...
it was in the form of the 45/5 modello 35 "Brixia" mortar which was issued 1 per platoon
leading to the German PAW 600 and the US 40mm grenade
Thank You ! I found much more history of my own Country in this channel than in plenty of others in Italy or Europe . There are models completly forgotten that I see for the first time , this one included . Congratulations for your idea and accurated job .
So if I have two bolts, I can shoot a live round and a grenade at the same time?
And crack the receiver apart
Art3mis receivers*
Technically 2 live rounds and a grenade at the same time
unnerving indeed yet still a pretty cool idea, especially with the use of standard ball vs. specified blank cartridge. Thanks Ian for another awesome video on another obscure and awesome peice of engineering.
I can totally picture Ian finding this rifle in the inventory like.. "and your coming with me!".
Hrmm. So the grenade is propelled by vented gas only...
A quick search online drew brilliant results. Apparently you can get 38mm 'superballs' pretty easily.
A case of superballs and a box of 6.5x52mm Carcano could make for a pretty interesting range trip.
Michael Free kinda like the can shooting ar upper
Ian: makes video on weird and interesting ww1/2 weapon
EA: write that down, write that down!
Anyone here because BFV Tides of War?
Yes! :D
I watched so many vids today on this it popped up. Lol love this gun this great addition to medic ckas
Bartosz Szulc yes
Yep, right here. I was interested in how it worked.
Yeah and do yourself a favour and subscribe to him
TY for posting this. I saw a magizine article a decade ago about this grenade laucher & was fascinated, your video explained alot more. I've heard that though each platoon was issued a good number of grenade launchers, that the troops typicaly complained about the grenades lack of power & it being only effective when using WWI tactics. I still think its use of 1 bolt for the whole gun is a great idea. TY again for another great video.
Great stuff :)
It can wipe out your enemies then you can use it to play music at their funerals.
Step 1: Watch this gun getting released in BF5
Step 2: UA-cam Algorithm
Step 3: Get this video recommended :D
Step 4: Love it
Why not just start manufacturing a new, more lethal type of grenade, when it was deemed ineffective in it's intented purpose, instead of calling it obsolete? It seems like quite a handy system, at least for the time.
Italian efficiency
I suspect the small bore diameter would have prevented them from getting a grenade of the effectiveness they wanted. The 45mm mortar that replaced these was substantially more effective and longer ranged.
it could be actually their doctrine, the italian assault handgrenades were also small blast yield, relying more on the blast and shock and less in fragmentation, maybe becouse they wanted to get really close wile assaulting. i am from greece and during greek-italian war 1940-41 the greek troops didnt have much regard on italian assault handgrenades (hellenic army also they had some in stock also, bought from italy before the war), they were ineficient and had to get very close to you to kill you or injured you, most of time they just shock you, i guess this was the concept for this grenade launcher also. A fun fact, greek troops modifying italian hand grenades unscrew from the top (they had large lid) take the powder and detonator out and they used them as a sigarette case! and in many times when in close fight with italians when out of grenades they just throw them on italians as distract as they thought they were real and they ditch for cover!
The size of the projectile and weight of the explosive was alot less than modern 40mm grenade.
Grenade tec had taken a big leap by the the time the 4o mm came out it had a fragmenting wire and a aluminum capsule instead of a cast iron body
"You only needed one bolt"
But I'll be damned if I don't look at that and think, "but I bet you *could* use two."
Love that you are doing Italian weapons!
I though the Italian army was alway under funded(during that period of history) , it's a pretty amazing system they came up with.
Loving Forgotten weapons and battlefield at the same time 🔥
That is a fascinating and creative idea, but indeed it seems quite unnerving to actually use. And you actually explained what was going on in there! I wonder if those soldiers who were issued this thing were just told to load a grenade and then chamber a live rifle round. Terrifying.
What a clever design for the time, though I'll be honest imagining a soldier under fire carefully moving the bolt in just the right way to get it out of the rifle and into the grenade launcher in any sort of smooth and time efficient manner seems like a tall order
Start off the morning right with Gun Jesus.
Why would you expose the national breakfast ritual?
Having breakfast, watching forgotten weapons, and Im Canadian.
That's one of the neatest devices I've seen in many dozen channel views.
I love the lil short carbine
YES! I was hoping you would do a review on this one!
I just love how UA-cam knows when Battlefield V puts out a new gun to find Ian’s video on whatever it is
One would think the Italians might have designed several grenade types for this
A fragmentation grenade for longer distances
A flash bang for the final assault
An incendiary for enemies in a wooden building
And maybe tear gas, and parachute flares
Best part is you can hold it like a gangsta when you use the grenade launcher.
They are years ahead of their tech
Instead of underbarrel, they were doing beside barrel. Still, seems very innovative for the time period. Seems like it would be less in the way in prone or with bipod than underbarrel so that's pretty cool.
That Brixia launcher...the ammunition tails..with the fins, made excellent egg cups...my grandfather brought back half a dozen from North Africa as a gift for my grandmother.
So ahead of its time.
the evolution of firearms amazes me. From the late 1920s to the early 50s. Some designers had things so right. yet others had it so wrong.
Duuuude, this looks super cool!
What a wonderful solution, just use the rifle's bolt :)
Great video, Ian!
That is an interesting way to use standard ammo to use a grenade laucnher.
Damn... This thing going to be the bomb in battlefield 5
Literally
The grenade can’t even one shot. It does 90 damage maximum. Does a lot of damage to vehicles though. Also the better grenades specialization is bugged. Other that that the gun is VERY good. Think a de lisle but with slightly slower fire rate and extreme 1-2 shot kill range.
These Italian gun names always sound like fancy Pasta recipes.
Villa perrossa, Le exquisite rare pasta only found on the italian alps
Bruh why are you so angry of my lack of knowledge about italian culture, lol all that is required is mamma mia pizza pasta. 🇮🇹 😂
Also how did I mangle the name villar perrosa, can you hear me through your screen?
I have one of these TS carbine that still has the cuts for this grenade launcher, I didnt know what it was until I saw this.
Keep it up Ian! the more the better! if its okay, I would like to see more stocked pistols. I want to be a gunsmith, and im working on a stocked pistol now, and all the reference and precedent I can get is wonderful
The go-to channel for EA employees to add strange guns in their game
Swapping your bolt before assaulting a position sounds like a terrible idea.
Cool history!
This is some genius shit man.
It always has surprised me that nations stuck with rifle grenades for so long (and still use them) rather than developing a dedicated launcher a la the M79 (and later the M203). They work well, are supposed to be quite accurate, and do not require fine motor skill manipulation of your rifle. Of course a mortar is better, has longer range and has a bigger bang, but they are not as mobile, take time to set up, etc. Great explanation of how these work.
The idea is that this way the guy with the grenade launcher is not dead weight if he cannot lob nades.
Also so that you can have a much higher about of grenade launchers without decreasing the effectiveness of the squad.
It's mad how closely this channel follows battlefield
Brilliant!
There is one of these grenade-launchers at the Berman Museum in Anniston, Alabama (along with an experimental Italian SMG if I recall). Mr. Berman was a member of the OSS during WW2, so he probably got his first-hand lol.
The word "Tromboncino" excites me in ways that I don't fully understand or am comfortable with. I've watched this video so many times. This has to be my favorite interwar grenade launcher. That Hungarian grenade-launching AK is really cool too. I'm watching that next.
Tromboncino is a Small Trombone ,( Tuba in Italian, not trombone in English)
The word derives from Tromba, which is ancient and means a larger size of Trumpet without Valves ( similar to Roman Buccina.).
The Japanese also converted T89 so called Knee Mortars to simple Grenade Launchers, by simply removing the rear range setting Spigot and firing pin, with a T38 Receiver and cutoff Barrel Chamber, and use a Propulsion Blank, and normal
DocAV
*Puts two bolts in*
*laughs in Italian*
I didn't know modello also made grenade launchers. I guess it is brewed with a fighting spirit
definitely an interesting concept.
Reminds of Ripley's "duck tape" combo gun
At least a picture of the grenade.
Oooo, look a Italian golf ball launcher. 🙂
Here to check it out before the BFV release.
That's super clever.
in recent years bt bullet trap rifle grenades were produces that used live rounds instead of blanks
epic beautiful weapon...
Massively ahead of its time really! Conceptually not unlike a modern underslung grenade launcher.
love this gun
I read about the tromboncino in ~1930 military manuals but I never saw one, by late thirties it had already been withdrawn from use
Ingenious
Fun fact: "tromboncino" means little trombone in Italian :D
P.s "spciali" is pronounced like spechalee ;) Great video!
Great, now I can't wait to be using this in Battlefield 5 😃
must rate it up, i only saw them from magazines before!
+ForgottenWeapons If you're ever passing through Sweden i have a 1944 m/96 swedish mauser in almost mint condition and some swedish army ammo from the 40s that shoots great... it's a shame that you have not done a video on the greatest mauser of them all ;-)
Reminds me of the Wehrmacht's attempt for a similar grenade launcher (I guess now we know where they got the idea from ^^), which was supposed to use the standard rifle grenade dispenser cup and parts of the receiver of the Karabiner 98. Didn't work because the rifle grenades showed stability issues during the flight.
Casually rewatching this video as this weapon is about to be released on BFV so that i can get an idea on how to use it
Same
Too bad they abandonned this idea.
They could have developped different types of grenades instead
Wow. Cool! Standard ball round + grenade = Italian grenade launcher. That’sa spicy meat-a-ball!!!
The SR2 bomb was filled with 32gr of TNT, into an iron case, and with an iron spiral around it to ensure fragmentation. The explosive filling was inferior to the later (from 1944) US MKII hand grenades, but superior to the earlier ones, so I wouldn't deem them as "ineffective". The bomb was designed to contain it's effects in a 50m range, and so the shooter was instructed to not shoot at closer distances (see "Istruzione provvisoria sull'uso della bomba S.R.2 con governale").
That thing is sleek. I want one. Too bad I am poor.
In italian these would be called "Lanciagranate" ("Lancha Granateh" -Grenade Launcher)
Tromboncino is the diminutive of Trombone, which is a type of instrument
Are you Italian?
Simply freaking amazing smfh
I'm surprised they didn't opt for offensive concussion grenades, that uses the explosive force instead of fragmentation. I didn't know anything like this existed. Thanks.
I think Denix needs to see these videos. Maybe get some ideas for neater replicas for reinactors or costumers. I'd buy the hell out of em.
one more great video Ian, simple awesome continue making firearms history coming to life
PS: pleeeeease find a fedorov avtomat for us
That knob on the launcher tube weirded me out. I wonder what that was for...
My first thought was 'Why not just use rifle grenades?'
I get the idea of not mixing up cartridges and such but it seems like a lot of faff...
Man, this is like the Blues Brothers mall that got trashed: "This place has got everything!"
Uhm, how strange, no Spef here...
Javatix he was the greatest part of this channel.
Fuck Spef.
Ben M fuck you
First spef Fan I'm free all day if you like. Thanks for the offer.
Epitoma Rei Militaris that assumption is old, and has never stopped our lourd and saviour yet.
We had a grenade launcher and a bolt for the whole platoon, and we had to share the bolt
Hey Ian, why don't you get something like a cheap endoscope for your phone or something? (Assuming you have a phone that can accept them, that is.) It would probably really help you show off bits of guns your normal cameras wouldn't be able to see, like the inside of that grenade cup, or down really tight parts of guns that you want to show off? The cheapest one I saw on Amazon went for like $18-$20, so they're really not that expensive. I'd consider it a worthwhile investment.
"Sphincter clenching" is a perfect description