What an awesome voicemail! Makes me smile whenever someone calls in who was an active JW, even an elder and pioneer, question their beliefs and leave the WT, and help others leave too. And great advice from Lloyd.
My ex-wife's father was killed in service by a wingnut when she was a young child (she loved her father very much). That is the single thing that she was waiting for - to see her father again. She is close to going into the grave if she isn't already there. She spent her whole life in the service defending the Watchtower. She was abused by her step-father elder and he was appointed by holy spirit while he was molesting her. Religion is such a snare and a racket.
Just terrible. I'm sorry. We also know that counselling is frowned upon which could obviously help so much, however, they want people to feel fragile and wait on Jehovah.
@@gaymonk3y Yes when I was POMI I found a WatchTower and I opened it up to the the study article and it said "there are some things in the system of things prayer and faith can't fix, we will have to wait for the new system". I was pissed, they admitted it is a scam and for years told people not to get professional help and they say they don't speak lies well that was one. The damage these people bring is astounding . How is the JW doctrine any different from all other religions - it's all the same "you get your reward after you die". Heaven for the wingnuts, life on earth for JW's.
Jehovah's false witnesses have another Jesus that can't save anyone and another gospel of faith plus works equals salvation. Jeffrey Wedekind, I can email you some King James Bible verses proving that Jesus is Lord God Almighty, and I can send you the clear gospel. Your choice. I'm truly sorry for the whole situation.
@@colonalklink14 Someone pointed out the other day that there are no sects in the Muslim faith, Judaism, and many of the other non-Christian religions (or they are low in number). Christianity is the only religion that has a 1000 flavors and each one thinks they only have the magic keys to salvation. Almost 100% of the time when people defend their flavor, they were brainwashed from birth in it. Muslims and Christians have tried to merge in the past but the Muslims (for good reason) could not accept the wacky trinity. Religion was a tool used to help government and manage large societies and one could argue it worked well. Large amounts of fatherless children is a nasty problem to deal with and in many cases they were killed because of a lack of resources. I for one am glad I don't have to argue over John 3:16 ever again. It's all nonsense.
Thanks to the caller for sharing your predicament. Thank you Lloyd for your kind and reasonable response. Thank you also for your body of work that has assisted many to escape the control of the cult.
Hello Lloyd. 1st of all I loved the advice you gave the caller, and I hope it helped. Secondly my eye kept being drawn to your Tee shirt. It brought to mind when the "Blood" card was first introduced to us. It was passed out to us by the attendance brothers at the Service meeting. You filled it out at your convenience. Many (including me) didn't bother to fill it out. Later us Elders got a secret letter telling us as Book Study conductors, we would pass them out at the Book study. That way we could use Peer Pressure to get them to sign it, as we offered to Witness their Signature in front of the whole group. It almost got everyone to sign, even if they didn't believe in it. Peer pressure is a very important tool of the Governing Body.
Wow this just made me realise that my mom is actively choosing her lost loved ones, and people in the organisation over myself, brother, grandkids and whole family who aren't in the cult, that's really sad
Your talk of dementia really hit home, Lloyd. I have seen how the Church handles members with dementia and that would be no help at all. The grandmother of one of my girlfriends has advanced dementia and is a Jehovah's Witness. It was really hard on the whole family to watch her lose her mind. The JW side of the family was full of accusations and judgments towards my GF but would not lift a finger to help. Gramma is in the hospital now as she is beyond the family's ability to care. Straight away the JW side of the family descended and demanded Gramma's assets. Gramma thought it was the end days because of COVID (while she was still lucid), strange lights in the sky (just street lamps) and she BELIEVED with her entire heart that her Dad and Late Husband were alive and well but being held captive somewhere (prompting her to wander onto busy roads and put herself in danger). The church was not in the least helpful when they could have been very much helpful and fulfill the need of ministry. I don't believe but I told gramma to lean into her faith and take comfort. What good would it do to rip that away from her at the end of her life and leave her in despair. (To be fair, she would probably forget and go right back to believing because she couldn't adapt to anything new.) Seeing the Church do so little for someone who devoted her life and was a true believer when it was both needed and welcome was a disappointment to say the least.
I’m a worldly person married to a believer and it’s so hard. I see right through this organization but my husband is so deeply seeded in Watchtower delusion
The power, superiority, and greatnes of ATHEISTS and THEISTS VS. The authorities, teachings, and commandments of the CREATOR and his CHRIST Jesus Christ KNOWS that all the great, superior, and powerful ATHEISTS who are boasting and CLAIMING that the Sovereignty and commandments of his God and Father are worthless and useless are nothing but worthless and useless human beings who can't be trusted with anything and are not worthy to be honored and rewarded with Eternal life and existence on earth. The Creator KNOWS that all the great, superior, and powerful THEISTS who are boasting and CLAIMING that the authority and teachings of his Christ about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" are worthless and useless are nothing but worthless and useless human beings who can't be trusted with anything and are not worthy to be honored and rewarded with Eternal Life and existence on earth.
Heather I feel you. My wife went back to “the truth” after we married. Had I known just how bad this religion was then, I would have fought to protect her from it. Unfortunately she was still a believer, though disfellowshipped when we got together. Watchtower is a cancer.
I'm an indigenous women in australia.was a witness for ten years ..but IV been told all my life from the old people that we are with them straight away in the dream time.reunited no sleeping until woken up
I absolutely agree that most JWs don’t really think about the bloodshed needed for the promised paradise. Reflecting on that can cause nausea for starters. It seems to me that his wife hasn’t properly mourned the loss of her father, well how could she with all this false hopes, and one thing he could try is asking her to see a therapist. Finding proper closure and peace with that, it may help her getting free from this cult eventually
Such a good point Lloyd, my sister regularly posts pictures of my grandparents saying "I can't wait to see them again"... and I have to restrain from commenting "do you realise your saying you can't wait for your sister and young nephew to die!?" but that would be seen by lots of JWs who would no doubt report me and get me disfelloweshipped! It's madness!
Exactly. My wife is the same. I stopped going meetings and she tries to tell me ill die at Armageddon. So I told her, her brothers will also die and your little niece who she loves will be slaughtered to pieces. She hates me when I say that to her.
Dont allow those elders to try and hold any power over you. Tell them I'm disassociating and if you come near my house again I will contact the Police and put a restraining order on you for harassment or attempted coercion.
I'm listening to the answer to the question, and one thing that lloyd left out is also even people in the watchtowers society are going to be destroyed at armageddon, not one person could say in certainly that they are not going to be destroyed at armageddon, there's no guarantee that they will survive armageddon, good video thanks for being honest about the situation of what is the only way to understand what they don't know about, be honest to yourself,
Sounds like my sister who is JW. She really wants to see her maternal grandmother and mother. Grandmother never did convert but mom did. It's sad, but also very delusional.
I can relate to this caller, my JW mother doesn't want to wake up and leave the WT because she thinks she will not see her mother again at the resurrection if she leaves
I just told my family why I haven't attended meetings in 2 years. If the witnesses are a cult and nothing they say is true why can't you just go with a heavenly hope?
Excellent post Lloyd, superb advice. A supplementary question, if I may: would you have any advice on the "Jehovah looks into people's heart conditions" response that JWs sometimes trot out when asked if only JWs will survive armageddon?
I think sometimes people need these things spelled out to them like that, because as you said, she might be in denial, she doesn't want to think or acknowledge that these are her beliefs. I hope this helps them! I wish there were 'follow up Sundays' on your channel, checking up on your old VM and seeing if and how your advice helped, if at all.
This is perfect and exactly the reasoning I needed to hear. I plan to use this exact scenario/big picture when I approach my parents (dad is an elder for over 30 years) and brother & SIL (missionaries for over 10 years). I hope to start planting seeds and will use this approach for sure. Thank you!
Ok, I have two things to say to the caller: 1: this is how I deal with these matters with my believing wife. I don’t. When I first got disfellowshipped we agreed that we would respect each other’s beliefs, and we stuck to it. For three years now. If there’s a minor slip up on either side, it’s dealt with quickly. She says something to try to convert me, I just say “well I don’t believe in that” we change the subject. I say something that could potentially damage her faith, she says “I don’t wanna talk about that.” We change the subject. Like clockwork lol. 2: I have a feeling Mr. Caller, that you may be agnostic or atheist. As am I, and Mr.Evans as well. But, keep in mind that there are many other Christian religions out there, and they ALL teach that you can be re-united with dead loved ones. I, for one, don’t have any problem with churches in most communities. My opinion is the hope is based on a lie, but hey, maybe my opinion is wrong. At least most churches don’t control and micro manage your life. A little false hope for the sake of comfort is fine. A lot of people need it. (Hell, sometime I wish I still had it). My point is, if your Dear wife ever becomes open to leaving the proverbial “Truth” she doesn’t have to loose that hope. She can still get it out of any other church in her community, or just her own bible.
Great answer! Exactly. There are other religions to join out there that gives hope. It's just that the cult conditioned its members that all of religion are wrong.
@@bongonzalez6053 I would love to reply to that, but first, could you tell me why you feel that way? I’m troubled by the fact that you don’t want to be convinced otherwise. This “I’ve made up my mind, and won’t be convinced otherwise” mindset is in itself cult-like. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but neither of us will ever know who’s right without a debate.
Correct answer I am in a similar situation and we have agreed not to talk about WT. What we have to remember JW are mentally ill and programmed to witness to all they probably don't even know they are doing it sadly many cannot just have a meaningless gentle conversation but we must be patient with them after all they have been programmed for years and years.
Lloyd your caller situation is the OPPOSITE of me I am OUT completely my husband is half and half OUT cause we live in Florida but if we go visit family in our home state of Indiana he is IN I told him Eventually, they are going to find out so it’s best you just tell them and get it over with Like the caller said We are ROCK solid he is Not leaving me and I am not leaving him That Cult has wrecked a lot of peoples lives SO GLAD I AM OUTTA DARKNESS Peace friends
I look forward to a video with the two of you. But more about the dialogue of humanity and its existence. Ex JW here. Long haul. Appreciate what you Do
Losing family members as well as ones mind being modified to better 'deal' with the loss of loved ones after armageddon is the price of admission to their paradise. Thats only part of the cost in addition to all the countless sacrifices and self-denial one has to submit to in order to be 'acceptable' and worthy of salvation.
I want to relate an experience that I experienced 2 weeks ago. I am an Ex JW, my Father is an active JW Elder. My son got critically I’ll. His organs were failing, he wasn’t getting any oxygen to the brain, and he suffers from schizophrenia. I told the family he was I’ll, which included my father who is a JW Elder. My son was unable to make decisions and he was speaking irrationally due to lack of oxygen to the brain and schizophrenia. I received a phone call from my father stating that my son has refused a blood transfusion and my father even had the audacity to give the doctor consent to not allow my son to get blood. I let him know that I’m going to give my consent for my son to receive blood. I arrived at the Trauma unit and the doctor approached me asking if I was the mother and said yes. The doctor told me my son needs blood NOW and would accept my verbal consent to proceed. The medical staff saw that mentally my son was unable to make that decision. Just then my father the JW Elder burst through the door bookbag in hand and told the doctors that my son was a JW and that he was their to make sure he didn’t receive a blood transfusion. My son had Jehovahs Witness in his medical file but was never baptized. The last time my son attended the Kingdom Hall with me he was 12yrs old my son is now 27yrs old. My son was never in the JW school or never an in baptized publisher. He answered Jehovah’s Witness in his file out of habit. My Father harassed my son with threats of punishment from Jehovah while my child was literally on his deathbed, he would not stop arguing with me and the doctors about my son receiving blood, threatening the doctor with lawsuits. As a result the put the Transfusion on hold. I WAS LIVID !!! When my father left I was elected as the power of attorney and my son received the blood Transfusion , my son was stable enough to agree to the procedure. My father knew damn well that my son was not even practicing the JW beliefs and he definitely didn’t attend the hall, my son wasn’t even having a Bible study! My son was an active Gang member and lived the life of a single man. How many Jehovah Witness Gang members do you know???? My father also knows !! I had to have my Father banned from the Hospital because he continued to harass my son, trying to get him to remove me as the Power of Attorney and appoint him(my JW Elder Father) as his Power of Attorney so that he could make my sons medical decisions. None of my Fathers Children or Grandchildren are participants in JW organization. I really don’t want to believe that this was an attempt for prestige, because if it was that means he was willing to sacrifice my son. This Religion is of the Devil and I never thought in a million years I would ever make a statement like this. Please update your Religious Preferences and emergency contacts in all medical files of your children and yourself immediately, because it could really mean life or death for you, family and your child. This was the deal breaker for me. I will be writing my letter to disassociate from this cult. I believe this cult is more dangerous than the Taliban . Jehovahs Witnesses are a “Jim Jones Massacre “ waiting to happen.
Jim Jones was an avid atheist. But I get your point. I don't know how to persuade Jehovah's false witnesses that they are dead wrong. I do know that Jesus is Lord God Almighty clothed in unsinful humanity and He is the author of "eternal life" to all who trust Him alone for salvation. This means that saving repentance is realizing that you are a sinner deserving of God's just punishment in Hell and turn (repent) from whatever you trusted in before, if indeed you trusted in anything; to trusting in the person and finished work of Christ "alone" for salvation. Jehovah's false witnesses have another Jesus that can't save anyone and another gospel of faith plus works equals salvation.
My advise from a former JW, Don"t be shaken tere is lifee after being a JW, though they tell you there isn't. Pray for God's help meet with other ex JW's who have gone through it. For me I came to have a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. I realize that may be hard to swallow at this time. Expect to go through various emotions, guilt, fear. God loves you and He will help you through this difficult time.
The best part about this line of reasoning is that it makes her realize that saving her family would be her number one priority now - by proving that the religion is true. Which means that she needs to use scrutiny on the doctrine. On the other hand: what we call "hope for the resurrection" and desire to see loved ones again is usually not exactly what it seems to be. It is a mix of powerful emotions that is amalgamated by interrupted grief. The lack of a normal, healthy grief process (due to the "hope" of the loved ones "not really being dead forever") makes it a lot harder to think rationally about all of this. Expectation management is really necessary here. Big thank you to the caller. You have all my sympathies. I know how it feels, it is so devastating when you love somebody and want them to be free, but they are shackled to the religion by false hope. It is truly heartbreaking.
I suspect this type of questioning would make it worse for her in the short term, and maybe even the long term. Damned if she believes, damned if she doesn't. No perfect outcome for her. If the questions start her down the road of leaving the church/cult, she would help herself with some counseling.
it's basically asking her to choose between her father, and her husband and children. she can rebut it by saying the husband and children have the choice to be part of the organisation; thus leading to a future she could really look forward to.
My brother who is raised in the truth so-called truth is an elder it will has not talked to my mom in over 40 years shameful and she's in her age she's 82 years old
Lloyd, I hope you do a video about what is going on in Spain, whereas the watchtower is suing apostates. The final two sessions of this is coming up in December. I believe it will become a big story.
@@LloydEvans I am sorry that I am not that tech savvy, being old and such, but there is a video on UA-cam that is titled exactly this way : "Watchtower is now SUING APOSTATES!! (unbelievable). I hope this helps. BTW, I like the new haircut 💇👍
My mother has always told me that jehovah will erase the memory of me once she is in the new system. This way she still holds true to the resurrection belief.
I was out for years, sick of 'religion' and cults, I was mute on the subject (my son was still in). When he left after years of an unhappy marriage (not nearly so good as your anonymous caller) all the theories and policies and hypocrisy were visible to him. He did not go to his interrogation with his elders because he knew that what his wife was saying was incorrect and he was willing to carry the blame. What he didn't really know was how traumatic the shunning of his family would be. Now, if the truth of the Bible sets you free and our Saviour died for all mankind and he asks all of us to come to him especially when we are down. depressed, confused etc. and Hebrews tells us in 5:7-10 that he is the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him and was designated by God to be high priest...where does obedience to the WT fit in? Are you free? Are you secure? How can you have faith in the GB when they block your way to Christ? I'd love to start in on all the troubles in the 3 different congregations I attended but I'll leave it with the recommendation just to sit together and read Hebrews and discuss what that might mean to all those who have departed from that cult. Please make sure you get a new bible or borrow someone's ; I threw out the WT version because it is terrible and can be misleading to say the least.
Unresolved grief is extremely damaging, and that's what religion is all about: grifting people into never reaching the acceptance stage of the process (where you come to peace with the finality of death) and getting stuck in some fragile headspace that can be exploited, often for cash, by religious leaders.
Hi Lloyd I just wanted to let you know that I received the upload information on UA-cam but when I tried 3 times it told me that the video had been pulled. I was lucky on the 4th and it finally went through.
I would never have got sucked into JWs if my 30 yo mother hadn't died in 1962 when I was a 1 yo . As a 27 yo in 1988 Watchtower hijacked my mind, I was intoxicated with the thought of seeing my dead mother again , 3 years short of her death age. Nicole my beautiful pimi jw wife and I have a great marriage, she can't drive so I drive her to all the meetings and field service groups. As a dissociated apostate born-again atheist I've had 2 JWs commend me on taking Nicole to meetings and field service groups, hopefully when Nikki,s JW friends ask about me in morbid curiosity she can tell the single sisters,, Find yourself a apostate they make the best husbands,, Justin Porter ex jw ❤️
Perhaps you can point out that again and again they have got the date wrong for Armageddon; so what makes her think they are correct about the resurrection.
The power, superiority, and greatnes of ATHEISTS and THEISTS VS. The authorities, teachings, and commandments of the CREATOR and his CHRIST Jesus Christ KNOWS that all the great, superior, and powerful ATHEISTS who are boasting and CLAIMING that the Sovereignty and commandments of his God and Father are worthless and useless are nothing but worthless and useless human beings who can't be trusted with anything and are not worthy to be honored and rewarded with Eternal life and existence on earth. The Creator KNOWS that all the great, superior, and powerful THEISTS who are boasting and CLAIMING that the authority and teachings of his Christ about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" are worthless and useless are nothing but worthless and useless human beings who can't be trusted with anything and are not worthy to be honored and rewarded with Eternal Life and existence on earth.
Difficult question to answer indeed. I felt like in this hypothetical conversation the wife is put in the situation of choosing between her family (husband and children) and her dad. And she could feel manipulated or cornered. Or am I interpreting this wrong? Or is this in fact the point of this hypothetical conversation? Thank you for clarifying that for me, people of the comment section or even Lloyd.
The point is not to make the wife feel cornered but to help her to grasp the impossible situation her beliefs put her in if she were to embrace them as fact.
@@oweltingzon4470 So those who survive Armageddon can marry in Paradise, but those who are resurrected have to stay single? Is that an official teaching of the JW org?
@@mailill no its only a clarification of what Jesus said in the bible on the matter...but the Watchtower said since God may take feelings into consideration on part of those widowed during the old system of things and who survive the End, he might change his stance on the matter.
@@oweltingzon4470 Aha! So he might take feelings into consideration, eh? That's really something. Come to think of it, God could then be changing his mind on a lot of things in the Bible or the WT teachings, for that matter (new light etc). As a matter of fact, I rather think he _should._ I mean ... murdering 8 billion people - including children and the mentally disabled - in Armageddon for being born into a religion with the wrong set of metaphysical dogmas or just for not trusting those eight "popes" in New York ... that would really hurt my feelings if the all-loving God did something like that.
The fear of death and the pain of losing one's loved one is a strong motivator for why one might stay in a religion that may or may not have a negative impact on their lives. The belief in an afterlife gives people comfort, so it's understandable why this caller's wife might continue in the faith. He may not ever be able to get her to question her beliefs. She sounds like she supported his right to question and leave the faith, to an extent. If he can't do anything to inspire her to question her beliefs, then all he can really do is support her right to make the decision to continue being involved the JW faith even though he no longer agrees with Witness doctrine or rituals.
I feel the same way as you. I don’t see the issue with someone having hope. Who in reality wants to believe when they die that’s it forever. I don’t even think the most hardcore atheists want to believe that concept.
The CREATOR is the loving, kind, and merciful God and Father of Jesus Christ and of all ordinary, lowly, and kind human beings who believe the authority and teachings of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead". The CREATOR KNOWS that all arrogant, cruel, and hateful Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, all fanatics of all religions who worship his enemy, Satan the Devil and preach the LIES, deceptions, and false doctrines of the enemies of his Christ about "Armageddon", "Rapture", "Trinity", "Hellfire", and "Reincarnation" are nothing but foolish and shameless human beings who will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth forever after their inescapable deaths. ETERNAL DEATH, just worthless and useless dusts on earth forever for LIARS, arrogant, cruel, and hateful human beings as CONSEQUENCE of their Satanic arrogance and foolishness in mocking, defying, and opposing the authorities, teachings, and commandments of the Creator and his Christ.
I disagree Lloyd that they are in denial. Some are of course, the nice ones who will deny as a coping mechanism. I think many of them are looking forward to and excited about the death and destruction. They can be proved right, no-one to challenge, no more horrible worldly people, and this is a sad thing, they have no regard for life and as an ex JW it took me years to build up some self worth because I was worthless and just a servant made of dust when in it
So far as a letter of disassociation-I don't owe them anything!..our baptism is not even valid-from a Christian viewpoint!..and.this shows how Cults can control one's thinking abilities..
You're just brainwashed like many of us were. You're still programmed by the cult. It takes awhile to get the programming out of your system. I hope you succeed.
I haven't been a Jehovah's Witness for twenty years. And a lot of things in this religion are really morally wrong. Moreover, there is no evidence. Still. You learn as witnesses that all your happiness is in Jehovah's hands and "his" organization. I do not believe it. but if you do, it will be fulfilled. How do you get rid of that feeling? I'm not afraid of armageddon. I've been watching your movies for years. You are an empathetic man who can think freely and critically. you do good work.
Here are some resources for healing: Bonnie Zieman Reboot After Recovery From Trauma Shunned A Survival Guide Fading Out Of The JW Cult A Memoir Cracking The Cult Code For Therapists The Challenge To Heal After Leaving A High Control Group Exiting The JW Cult A Healing Handbook
Well, yes...they’ll be different people. They will tote wood from trees they’ll wipe out and build Kingdom Halls, oh joy! Women with BIG smiles will carry baskets of exotic fruits on their bandanna’d heads and kids will play with lions while mom laughs. Oh good. Do I want to be that? Uh...no.
In the case they don't forget their loved ones who perished at Armageddon and have to live with that, then how is that different from now? Add to that the truma of witnessing the terrible death of your loved ones by a fireball! I can´t imagine being happy after that, let alone worshiping the God who did it.
How sad! Wouldn’t it be beautiful and true and comforting if we believed in a God of mercy and love Who didn’t destroy anyone but loved and nurtured us all because He understands? I am a Believer in Jesus Who I have thought of and sought through my years following JW emptiness. Yet I cannot abide by what “Christianity(?)”, “Christiandom(?)” has become so I am content with the Peace of a Loving Father. In that, I know I will see my loved ones again. Jesus doesn’t make you choose. God is love. I grew up with having to “choose”: I was a child terrified my father (non-religious) would go to hell. My sister would definitely go to purgatory because we fought as siblings and she usually won (LOL), an unbaptised baby would go to Limbo, my mom in Heaven and holy cow...I was all over the place! THEN JWs made it simple:”Get on board the WT or you’ll ALL be destroyed and you won’t know or care...” (yes, that ‘dementia’ thing)...now I’m old and I know my God is comforting and Love and this I can rest in. Accept that He is not the Monster men have created Him to be. ♥️
Your wife, bless her, is running on emotions due to empty promises conger-ed up by 8 men. Tell a lie often enough and it can become the truth, we are all susceptible. She is so lucky to have you, give her time, we all have to figure our own way out. For me it was that I found out what this organization is doing behind closed doors. Eg: Shares in worldly warfare weapon's, plus more. That shocked me to my seances and I left.
The Creator is the Most High and Sovereign God of Jesus Christ Jesus Christ is the One given by the Creator all authority in heaven and on earth. The teachings of Jesus Christ are - 1. the "Kingdom of God" and 2. "Resurrection of the Dead" Who are mocking, defying, and opposing the Creator's Sovereignty and his Christ's authority and teachings? ANSWER - The Atheists, Agnostics, Catholics, Born Agains, JWs, Mormons, Muslims, Buddhists, SDAs, Baptists, Hindus, all fanatics of all Religions. CONSEQUENCE - All the great, intelligent, glorious, and powerful Atheists, Agnostics, and fanatics of all Christian and non-Christian Religions who are boasting and CLAIMING that the Creator and his Christ are worthless and useless are nothing but foolish and shameless human beings who'll just become worthless and useless dusts on earth forever after their painful and inescapable deaths.
The JW's do not have the authority over who gets resurrected, even if you leave the cult, it is God who grants you life and a resurrection. I know a lot of JW's leave and their faith in God and belief in the Bible goes, but i found something a million times better when i left, and i told the elders, who were eager to find out what it was. I don't think they have been told that before, lol.
armageddon is just a place name. Nothing else. But i am not sure about what end and saving did Matthew write in his gospel (Matthew 24:1-14). Maybe it is meant figurativelly.
If God's great plan of salvation involves giving you brain damage as a cure for your sadness, to make you happy in Paradise by forgetting your loved ones who didn't make it, ... it's a shitty plan to begin with.
I do feel that JW culture really hijacks the grieving process as Lloyd says when a Witness loses a loved one. If you grieve over a loved one too long, you're viewed as being "weak in the faith" and others in your congregation will assume that you don't have a strong belief in the "resurrection hope". JW funerals are often used to promote JW beliefs and practices, instead of honoring the life of the deceased person. Such an event is often used to try and convince longtime non-Witnesses to start Bible study courses with the JWs with the hope that prospective non-JW Bible students will eventually be baptized as official members of the JW Organization. You even have JWs who will proselytize in the comment section of online obituaries, and some will even write letters to the loved ones of people who have since passed away. Again, it's all rather manipulative. I'm glad that when I was involved with the JWs that I didn't do that kind of stuff. It just never seemed right to me.
She will see her dad again, but she must understand that JWs don't have a monopoly on the pathway to salvation imo.I believe there are many paths to Jehovah and Christ, not just one denomination.
Who said 'Only JW's will survive Armageddon?' WATCHTOWER. NOT the Bible. That's not what the Bible says. And besides, there's nothing about a worldwide genocide at Armageddon. It doesn't say anyone will die at Armageddon. It's mentioned once in the Bible and all it 's simply a war between two Kings.
men who are crooked and seek there own selfish desires wont help you see your loved ones again! those who refuse to put Yeshua in there lives! you might have escaped corruption only to be back in a bigger one run by the Devil and those who run corruption!
Well it is not about if you are a JW when armageddon comes, it all evens out once you are dead. Armageddon really only affect the people who happens to be alive when it hits. Jesus waited 1900 years to sit on the throne casting all evil to earth for a short time that has already spanned a whole human lifetime. So Jesus is clearly not in a hurry.
Jesus is Lord God Almighty clothed in unsinful humanity and He is the author of "eternal life" to all who realize that they are sinners deserving of God's just punishment in Hell and turn (repent) from whatever they trusted in before, if indeed they trusted in anything; to trusting in the person and finished work of Christ alone for salvation.
@@louhi6015 Well you should assume he believes the Bible to be accurate. That’s why he believes it. Why do you feel need to try to prove someone’s beliefs in god as being wrong?
@@learnwithjaredandmaria The difference between you and I is that I don't want to assume anything, that's why I ask questions. Why you do you feel need to make so many assumptions about other people, so much so, that you created an account for it three weeks ago and now comment here on an atheist channel? Are you here to preach? Like Anastasia in her comment?
If you say Armageddon is gonna be here tomorrow, what’s gonna happen? The response will 99% of the time have something to do with “heart condition” it’s the same argument I’ve heard a thousand times
What an awesome voicemail! Makes me smile whenever someone calls in who was an active JW, even an elder and pioneer, question their beliefs and leave the WT, and help others leave too. And great advice from Lloyd.
My ex-wife's father was killed in service by a wingnut when she was a young child (she loved her father very much). That is the single thing that she was waiting for - to see her father again. She is close to going into the grave if she isn't already there. She spent her whole life in the service defending the Watchtower. She was abused by her step-father elder and he was appointed by holy spirit while he was molesting her. Religion is such a snare and a racket.
Just terrible. I'm sorry. We also know that counselling is frowned upon which could obviously help so much, however, they want people to feel fragile and wait on Jehovah.
@@gaymonk3y Yes when I was POMI I found a WatchTower and I opened it up to the the study article and it said "there are some things in the system of things prayer and faith can't fix, we will have to wait for the new system". I was pissed, they admitted it is a scam and for years told people not to get professional help and they say they don't speak lies well that was one. The damage these people bring is astounding . How is the JW doctrine any different from all other religions - it's all the same "you get your reward after you die". Heaven for the wingnuts, life on earth for JW's.
How horrible! There is no excuse!
Jehovah's false witnesses have another Jesus that can't save anyone and another gospel of faith plus works equals salvation.
Jeffrey Wedekind, I can email you some King James Bible verses proving that Jesus is Lord God Almighty, and I can send you the clear gospel.
Your choice.
I'm truly sorry for the whole situation.
@@colonalklink14 Someone pointed out the other day that there are no sects in the Muslim faith, Judaism, and many of the other non-Christian religions (or they are low in number). Christianity is the only religion that has a 1000 flavors and each one thinks they only have the magic keys to salvation. Almost 100% of the time when people defend their flavor, they were brainwashed from birth in it. Muslims and Christians have tried to merge in the past but the Muslims (for good reason) could not accept the wacky trinity. Religion was a tool used to help government and manage large societies and one could argue it worked well. Large amounts of fatherless children is a nasty problem to deal with and in many cases they were killed because of a lack of resources. I for one am glad I don't have to argue over John 3:16 ever again. It's all nonsense.
Thanks to the caller for sharing your predicament. Thank you Lloyd for your kind and reasonable response.
Thank you also for your body of work that has assisted many to escape the control of the cult.
Hello Lloyd. 1st of all I loved the advice you gave the caller, and I hope it helped. Secondly my eye kept being drawn to your Tee shirt. It brought to mind when the "Blood" card was first introduced to us. It was passed out to us by the attendance brothers at the Service meeting. You filled it out at your convenience. Many (including me) didn't bother to fill it out. Later us Elders got a secret letter telling us as Book Study conductors, we would pass them out at the Book study. That way we could use Peer Pressure to get them to sign it, as we offered to Witness their Signature in front of the whole group. It almost got everyone to sign, even if they didn't believe in it. Peer pressure is a very important tool of the Governing Body.
Thank you Lloyd for such a caring and well reasoned response x
Wow this just made me realise that my mom is actively choosing her lost loved ones, and people in the organisation over myself, brother, grandkids and whole family who aren't in the cult, that's really sad
it´s so sad to hear that... i´m in the same situation...as a lot of persons are. Thanks for share Lloyd.
I could not have put that any better then you Lloyd I appreciate the work you put in on your videos they have helped me a lot thankyou
Your talk of dementia really hit home, Lloyd. I have seen how the Church handles members with dementia and that would be no help at all. The grandmother of one of my girlfriends has advanced dementia and is a Jehovah's Witness. It was really hard on the whole family to watch her lose her mind. The JW side of the family was full of accusations and judgments towards my GF but would not lift a finger to help. Gramma is in the hospital now as she is beyond the family's ability to care. Straight away the JW side of the family descended and demanded Gramma's assets. Gramma thought it was the end days because of COVID (while she was still lucid), strange lights in the sky (just street lamps) and she BELIEVED with her entire heart that her Dad and Late Husband were alive and well but being held captive somewhere (prompting her to wander onto busy roads and put herself in danger).
The church was not in the least helpful when they could have been very much helpful and fulfill the need of ministry. I don't believe but I told gramma to lean into her faith and take comfort. What good would it do to rip that away from her at the end of her life and leave her in despair. (To be fair, she would probably forget and go right back to believing because she couldn't adapt to anything new.)
Seeing the Church do so little for someone who devoted her life and was a true believer when it was both needed and welcome was a disappointment to say the least.
That is so sad.for her to be treated that way.smh
Thank you, Lloyd! Your advice was sound, I just hope the caller can help his wife see the validity of it.
I’m a worldly person married to a believer and it’s so hard. I see right through this organization but my husband is so deeply seeded in Watchtower delusion
The power, superiority, and greatnes of ATHEISTS and THEISTS
VS.
The authorities, teachings, and commandments of the CREATOR and his CHRIST
Jesus Christ KNOWS that all the great, superior, and powerful ATHEISTS who are boasting and CLAIMING that the Sovereignty and commandments of his God and Father are worthless and useless are nothing but worthless and useless human beings who can't be trusted with anything and are not worthy to be honored and rewarded with Eternal life and existence on earth.
The Creator KNOWS that all the great, superior, and powerful THEISTS who are boasting and CLAIMING that the authority and teachings of his Christ about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" are worthless and useless are nothing but worthless and useless human beings who can't be trusted with anything and are not worthy to be honored and rewarded with Eternal Life and existence on earth.
Heather I feel you. My wife went back to “the truth” after we married. Had I known just how bad this religion was then, I would have fought to protect her from it. Unfortunately she was still a believer, though disfellowshipped when we got together. Watchtower is a cancer.
Divorce him. Lol.
I'm an indigenous women in australia.was a witness for ten years ..but IV been told all my life from the old people that we are with them straight away in the dream time.reunited no sleeping until woken up
I absolutely agree that most JWs don’t really think about the bloodshed needed for the promised paradise. Reflecting on that can cause nausea for starters.
It seems to me that his wife hasn’t properly mourned the loss of her father, well how could she with all this false hopes, and one thing he could try is asking her to see a therapist. Finding proper closure and peace with that, it may help her getting free from this cult eventually
Such a good point Lloyd, my sister regularly posts pictures of my grandparents saying "I can't wait to see them again"... and I have to restrain from commenting "do you realise your saying you can't wait for your sister and young nephew to die!?" but that would be seen by lots of JWs who would no doubt report me and get me disfelloweshipped! It's madness!
Exactly. My wife is the same. I stopped going meetings and she tries to tell me ill die at Armageddon. So I told her, her brothers will also die and your little niece who she loves will be slaughtered to pieces. She hates me when I say that to her.
Dont allow those elders to try and hold any power over you. Tell them I'm disassociating and if you come near my house again I will contact the Police and put a restraining order on you for harassment or attempted coercion.
GOOD ADVISE.
I'm listening to the answer to the question, and one thing that lloyd left out is also even people in the watchtowers society are going to be destroyed at armageddon, not one person could say in certainly that they are not going to be destroyed at armageddon, there's no guarantee that they will survive armageddon, good video thanks for being honest about the situation of what is the only way to understand what they don't know about, be honest to yourself,
Sounds like my sister who is JW. She really wants to see her maternal grandmother and mother. Grandmother never did convert but mom did. It's sad, but also very delusional.
When I was a child my mother told me if I didn't make it to the paradise she wouldn't be sad.
That’s such a brutal thing to say to your own child
Why would you agree to even see the elders?
I can relate to this caller, my JW mother doesn't want to wake up and leave the WT because she thinks she will not see her mother again at the resurrection if she leaves
Lloyd has healed most of us. We thank you each day lloyd. You can do no wrong in our eyes. You are appreciated!
I appreciate Lloyd too but remember people can make mistakes. 🙂
@@KefashWhite indeed.
I just told my family why I haven't attended meetings in 2 years. If the witnesses are a cult and nothing they say is true why can't you just go with a heavenly hope?
I'm definitely feeling this one!.the thing is-my wife left me,once she saw that I was speaking against "the truth"!..and we both were born ins!...
Excellent post Lloyd, superb advice. A supplementary question, if I may: would you have any advice on the "Jehovah looks into people's heart conditions" response that JWs sometimes trot out when asked if only JWs will survive armageddon?
Brilliant question Lloyd "is that a future you can look forward to ?" So very good advice lloyd! Great!
Wow! LE is on a roll. What a comeback, DEMENTIA!
Well done! You've explained it perfectly for so many of us!
Thank you Lloyd for your platform helping people overcome the cult of Jehovah's witnesses.
Literally my mom's case...
I think sometimes people need these things spelled out to them like that, because as you said, she might be in denial, she doesn't want to think or acknowledge that these are her beliefs. I hope this helps them! I wish there were 'follow up Sundays' on your channel, checking up on your old VM and seeing if and how your advice helped, if at all.
This caller has such courage! I admire him very much, and he can be very inspiring to so many people.
This is perfect and exactly the reasoning I needed to hear. I plan to use this exact scenario/big picture when I approach my parents (dad is an elder for over 30 years) and brother & SIL (missionaries for over 10 years). I hope to start planting seeds and will use this approach for sure. Thank you!
Ok, I have two things to say to the caller:
1: this is how I deal with these matters with my believing wife. I don’t. When I first got disfellowshipped we agreed that we would respect each other’s beliefs, and we stuck to it. For three years now. If there’s a minor slip up on either side, it’s dealt with quickly. She says something to try to convert me, I just say “well I don’t believe in that” we change the subject. I say something that could potentially damage her faith, she says “I don’t wanna talk about that.” We change the subject. Like clockwork lol.
2: I have a feeling Mr. Caller, that you may be agnostic or atheist. As am I, and Mr.Evans as well. But, keep in mind that there are many other Christian religions out there, and they ALL teach that you can be re-united with dead loved ones. I, for one, don’t have any problem with churches in most communities. My opinion is the hope is based on a lie, but hey, maybe my opinion is wrong. At least most churches don’t control and micro manage your life. A little false hope for the sake of comfort is fine. A lot of people need it. (Hell, sometime I wish I still had it). My point is, if your Dear wife ever becomes open to leaving the proverbial “Truth” she doesn’t have to loose that hope. She can still get it out of any other church in her community, or just her own bible.
Great answer! Exactly. There are other religions to join out there that gives hope. It's just that the cult conditioned its members that all of religion are wrong.
@@sasukeuchiha8648 all religions are cult. Stop convincing us otherwise
@@bongonzalez6053 I would love to reply to that, but first, could you tell me why you feel that way? I’m troubled by the fact that you don’t want to be convinced otherwise. This “I’ve made up my mind, and won’t be convinced otherwise” mindset is in itself cult-like. I’m not saying you’re wrong, but neither of us will ever know who’s right without a debate.
Correct answer I am in a similar situation and we have agreed not to talk about WT.
What we have to remember JW are mentally ill and programmed to witness to all they probably don't even know they are doing it sadly many cannot just have a meaningless gentle conversation but we must be patient with them after all they have been programmed for years and years.
@@AndyPaxTheGameCat nice try with your JW way of getting my thoughts and brainwash me later. Don't try me, b*tch.
Lloyd your caller situation is the OPPOSITE of me I am OUT completely my husband is half and half OUT cause we live in Florida but if we go visit family in our home state of Indiana he is IN I told him Eventually, they are going to find out so it’s best you just tell them and get it over with Like the caller said We are ROCK solid he is Not leaving me and I am not leaving him That Cult has wrecked a lot of peoples lives SO GLAD I AM OUTTA DARKNESS Peace friends
I LIVE FOR THE DAY WHEN THIS FAMILY KILLER AND BREAKER CULT IS BANNED WORLDWIDE.
@@angelawambui1468 YOUR WORDS ARE MUSIC TO MY EARS I Can’t EITHER
I look forward to a video with the two of you. But more about the dialogue of humanity and its existence. Ex JW here. Long haul. Appreciate what you Do
Love the haircut....persons can wake up only when they are jolted or something goes wrong. Let them come to waking up on their own.
Brilliant logic Lloyd, thank you.
Wise words from your daughter Lloyd.
Yes, “out of the babes”. They are such wise and have such insight.
I mean very wise.🙂
And “out of the mouths of babes”.😄
This is the most profound video I have ever seen and i have seen them all.! Well Lloyd'!
Beautiful reply Lloyd…
Losing family members as well as ones mind being modified to better 'deal' with the loss of loved ones after armageddon is the price of admission to their paradise. Thats only part of the cost in addition to all the countless sacrifices and self-denial one has to submit to in order to be 'acceptable' and worthy of salvation.
I want to relate an experience that I experienced 2 weeks ago. I am an Ex JW, my Father is an active JW Elder. My son got critically I’ll. His organs were failing, he wasn’t getting any oxygen to the brain, and he suffers from schizophrenia. I told the family he was I’ll, which included my father who is a JW Elder. My son was unable to make decisions and he was speaking irrationally due to lack of oxygen to the brain and schizophrenia. I received a phone call from my father stating that my son has refused a blood transfusion and my father even had the audacity to give the doctor consent to not allow my son to get blood. I let him know that I’m going to give my consent for my son to receive blood. I arrived at the Trauma unit and the doctor approached me asking if I was the mother and said yes. The doctor told me my son needs blood NOW and would accept my verbal consent to proceed. The medical staff saw that mentally my son was unable to make that decision. Just then my father the JW Elder burst through the door bookbag in hand and told the doctors that my son was a JW and that he was their to make sure he didn’t receive a blood transfusion. My son had Jehovahs Witness in his medical file but was never baptized. The last time my son attended the Kingdom Hall with me he was 12yrs old my son is now 27yrs old. My son was never in the JW school or never an in baptized publisher. He answered Jehovah’s Witness in his file out of habit. My Father harassed my son with threats of punishment from Jehovah while my child was literally on his deathbed, he would not stop arguing with me and the doctors about my son receiving blood, threatening the doctor with lawsuits. As a result the put the Transfusion on hold. I WAS LIVID !!! When my father left I was elected as the power of attorney and my son received the blood Transfusion , my son was stable enough to agree to the procedure. My father knew damn well that my son was not even practicing the JW beliefs and he definitely didn’t attend the hall, my son wasn’t even having a Bible study! My son was an active Gang member and lived the life of a single man. How many Jehovah Witness Gang members do you know???? My father also knows !! I had to have my Father banned from the Hospital because he continued to harass my son, trying to get him to remove me as the Power of Attorney and appoint him(my JW Elder Father) as his Power of Attorney so that he could make my sons medical decisions. None of my Fathers Children or Grandchildren are participants in JW organization. I really don’t want to believe that this was an attempt for prestige, because if it was that means he was willing to sacrifice my son. This Religion is of the Devil and I never thought in a million years I would ever make a statement like this. Please update your Religious Preferences and emergency contacts in all medical files of your children and yourself immediately, because it could really mean life or death for you, family and your child. This was the deal breaker for me. I will be writing my letter to disassociate from this cult. I believe this cult is more dangerous than the Taliban . Jehovahs Witnesses are a “Jim Jones Massacre “ waiting to happen.
Jim Jones was an avid atheist.
But I get your point.
I don't know how to persuade Jehovah's false witnesses that they are dead wrong.
I do know that Jesus is Lord God Almighty clothed in unsinful humanity and He is the author of "eternal life" to all who trust Him alone for salvation.
This means that saving repentance is realizing that you are a sinner deserving of God's just punishment in Hell and turn (repent) from whatever you trusted in before, if indeed you trusted in anything; to trusting in the person and finished work of Christ "alone" for salvation.
Jehovah's false witnesses have another Jesus that can't save anyone and another gospel of faith plus works equals salvation.
My advise from a former JW, Don"t be shaken tere is lifee after being a JW, though they tell you there isn't. Pray for God's help meet with other ex JW's who have gone through it. For me I came to have a relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ. I realize that may be hard to swallow at this time. Expect to go through various emotions, guilt, fear. God loves you and He will help you through this difficult time.
And what are your thoughts on Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny?
I fell for this until the very day he died. That was the day I realized I was never going to see him ever again.
The best part about this line of reasoning is that it makes her realize that saving her family would be her number one priority now - by proving that the religion is true. Which means that she needs to use scrutiny on the doctrine.
On the other hand: what we call "hope for the resurrection" and desire to see loved ones again is usually not exactly what it seems to be. It is a mix of powerful emotions that is amalgamated by interrupted grief. The lack of a normal, healthy grief process (due to the "hope" of the loved ones "not really being dead forever") makes it a lot harder to think rationally about all of this. Expectation management is really necessary here.
Big thank you to the caller. You have all my sympathies. I know how it feels, it is so devastating when you love somebody and want them to be free, but they are shackled to the religion by false hope. It is truly heartbreaking.
I suspect this type of questioning would make it worse for her in the short term, and maybe even the long term. Damned if she believes, damned if she doesn't. No perfect outcome for her. If the questions start her down the road of leaving the church/cult, she would help herself with some counseling.
it's basically asking her to choose between her father, and her husband and children. she can rebut it by saying the husband and children have the choice to be part of the organisation; thus leading to a future she could really look forward to.
My brother who is raised in the truth so-called truth is an elder it will has not talked to my mom in over 40 years shameful and she's in her age she's 82 years old
Lloyd, I hope you do a video about what is going on in Spain, whereas the watchtower is suing apostates. The final two sessions of this is coming up in December.
I believe it will become a big story.
Do you have any links, or names of individuals I can reach out to? I would be happy to cover this.
@@LloydEvans
I am sorry that I am not that tech savvy, being old and such, but there is a video on UA-cam that is titled exactly this way : "Watchtower is now SUING APOSTATES!! (unbelievable).
I hope this helps.
BTW, I like the new haircut 💇👍
@@LloydEvans name Ex Jw Panda Tower is the creators name.
It’s called dementia😅
My mother has always told me that jehovah will erase the memory of me once she is in the new system. This way she still holds true to the resurrection belief.
This is my ex-wifes dilemma. She will not acknowledge it though.
Divorce her.
I was out for years, sick of 'religion' and cults, I was mute on the subject (my son was still in). When he left after years of an unhappy marriage (not nearly so good as your anonymous caller) all the theories and policies and hypocrisy were visible to him. He did not go to his interrogation with his elders because he knew that what his wife was saying was incorrect and he was willing to carry the blame. What he didn't really know was how traumatic the shunning of his family would be. Now, if the truth of the Bible sets you free and our Saviour died for all mankind and he asks all of us to come to him especially when we are down. depressed, confused etc. and Hebrews tells us in 5:7-10 that he is the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him and was designated by God to be high priest...where does obedience to the WT fit in? Are you free? Are you secure? How can you have faith in the GB when they block your way to Christ? I'd love to start in on all the troubles in the 3 different congregations I attended but I'll leave it with the recommendation just to sit together and read Hebrews and discuss what that might mean to all those who have departed from that cult. Please make sure you get a new bible or borrow someone's ; I threw out the WT version because it is terrible and can be misleading to say the least.
Like the cut 😊
a little offtopic: great haircut Lloyd
Unresolved grief is extremely damaging, and that's what religion is all about: grifting people into never reaching the acceptance stage of the process (where you come to peace with the finality of death) and getting stuck in some fragile headspace that can be exploited, often for cash, by religious leaders.
Hi Lloyd I just wanted to let you know that I received the upload information on UA-cam but when I tried 3 times it told me that the video had been pulled. I was lucky on the 4th and it finally went through.
I would never have got sucked into JWs if my 30 yo mother hadn't died in 1962 when I was a 1 yo . As a 27 yo in 1988 Watchtower hijacked my mind, I was intoxicated with the thought of seeing my dead mother again , 3 years short of her death age. Nicole my beautiful pimi jw wife and I have a great marriage, she can't drive so I drive her to all the meetings and field service groups. As a dissociated apostate born-again atheist I've had 2 JWs commend me on taking Nicole to meetings and field service groups, hopefully when Nikki,s JW friends ask about me in morbid curiosity she can tell the single sisters,, Find yourself a apostate they make the best husbands,, Justin Porter ex jw ❤️
Well said Lloyd.
Perhaps you can point out that again and again they have got the date wrong for Armageddon; so what makes her think they are correct about the resurrection.
Doesnt she realise that its tripe
This generation that will by no means pass away until ....
And that's it. They all had the audacity to pass away before The Christ has come.
The power, superiority, and greatnes of ATHEISTS and THEISTS
VS.
The authorities, teachings, and commandments of the CREATOR and his CHRIST
Jesus Christ KNOWS that all the great, superior, and powerful ATHEISTS who are boasting and CLAIMING that the Sovereignty and commandments of his God and Father are worthless and useless are nothing but worthless and useless human beings who can't be trusted with anything and are not worthy to be honored and rewarded with Eternal life and existence on earth.
The Creator KNOWS that all the great, superior, and powerful THEISTS who are boasting and CLAIMING that the authority and teachings of his Christ about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead" are worthless and useless are nothing but worthless and useless human beings who can't be trusted with anything and are not worthy to be honored and rewarded with Eternal Life and existence on earth.
Difficult question to answer indeed.
I felt like in this hypothetical conversation the wife is put in the situation of choosing between her family (husband and children) and her dad. And she could feel manipulated or cornered. Or am I interpreting this wrong? Or is this in fact the point of this hypothetical conversation? Thank you for clarifying that for me, people of the comment section or even Lloyd.
The point is not to make the wife feel cornered but to help her to grasp the impossible situation her beliefs put her in if she were to embrace them as fact.
She'll marry a different guy in the New world and have new kids. Problem solved!
But but ... Matthew 22:30 "for in the resurrection neither do men marry nor are women given in marriage, but they are as angels in heaven."
@@mailill true but that only applies to those who have died faithful and are then resurrected in the New System.
@@oweltingzon4470 So those who survive Armageddon can marry in Paradise, but those who are resurrected have to stay single? Is that an official teaching of the JW org?
@@mailill no its only a clarification of what Jesus said in the bible on the matter...but the Watchtower said since God may take feelings into consideration on part of those widowed during the old system of things and who survive the End, he might change his stance on the matter.
@@oweltingzon4470 Aha! So he might take feelings into consideration, eh? That's really something. Come to think of it, God could then be changing his mind on a lot of things in the Bible or the WT teachings, for that matter (new light etc). As a matter of fact, I rather think he _should._ I mean ... murdering 8 billion people - including children and the mentally disabled - in Armageddon for being born into a religion with the wrong set of metaphysical dogmas or just for not trusting those eight "popes" in New York ... that would really hurt my feelings if the all-loving God did something like that.
A simpler answer would be that the belief in an afterlife is available to students of other religions.
The fear of death and the pain of losing one's loved one is a strong motivator for why one might stay in a religion that may or may not have a negative impact on their lives. The belief in an afterlife gives people comfort, so it's understandable why this caller's wife might continue in the faith. He may not ever be able to get her to question her beliefs. She sounds like she supported his right to question and leave the faith, to an extent. If he can't do anything to inspire her to question her beliefs, then all he can really do is support her right to make the decision to continue being involved the JW faith even though he no longer agrees with Witness doctrine or rituals.
I feel the same way as you. I don’t see the issue with someone having hope. Who in reality wants to believe when they die that’s it forever. I don’t even think the most hardcore atheists want to believe that concept.
Jesus also said... The DEAD will take care of itself? How the hell can you put your life on hold for a NON- GUARANTEE for patadise life.... WTF?
The CREATOR is the loving, kind, and merciful God and Father of Jesus Christ and of all ordinary, lowly, and kind human beings who believe the authority and teachings of Jesus Christ about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead".
The CREATOR KNOWS that all arrogant, cruel, and hateful Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, all fanatics of all religions who worship his enemy, Satan the Devil and preach the LIES, deceptions, and false doctrines of the enemies of his Christ about "Armageddon", "Rapture", "Trinity", "Hellfire", and "Reincarnation" are nothing but foolish and shameless human beings who will just become worthless and useless dusts on earth forever after their inescapable deaths.
ETERNAL DEATH, just worthless and useless dusts on earth forever for LIARS, arrogant, cruel, and hateful human beings as CONSEQUENCE of their Satanic arrogance and foolishness in mocking, defying, and opposing the authorities, teachings, and commandments of the Creator and his Christ.
I disagree Lloyd that they are in denial. Some are of course, the nice ones who will deny as a coping mechanism. I think many of them are looking forward to and excited about the death and destruction. They can be proved right, no-one to challenge, no more horrible worldly people, and this is a sad thing, they have no regard for life and as an ex JW it took me years to build up some self worth because I was worthless and just a servant made of dust when in it
So far as a letter of disassociation-I don't owe them anything!..our baptism is not even valid-from a Christian viewpoint!..and.this shows how Cults can control one's thinking abilities..
I’m Disfellowship and confused I street witness and love my creator with all my heart I want the truth I thought I’d found it
There's no creator. Lol
You're just brainwashed like many of us were. You're still programmed by the cult. It takes awhile to get the programming out of your system. I hope you succeed.
I haven't been a Jehovah's Witness for twenty years. And a lot of things in this religion are really morally wrong. Moreover, there is no evidence. Still. You learn as witnesses that all your happiness is in Jehovah's hands and "his" organization. I do not believe it. but if you do, it will be fulfilled. How do you get rid of that feeling? I'm not afraid of armageddon. I've been watching your movies for years. You are an empathetic man who can think freely and critically. you do good work.
Theramintrees on UA-cam deals with toxic religions and their emotional abuse. He’s an actual therapist. It helps.
Thanks
Here are some resources for healing:
Bonnie Zieman
Reboot After Recovery From Trauma
Shunned A Survival Guide
Fading Out Of The JW Cult A Memoir
Cracking The Cult Code For Therapists
The Challenge To Heal After Leaving A High Control Group
Exiting The JW Cult A Healing Handbook
Not keen on the kiddy haircut 😁
Well, yes...they’ll be different people. They will tote wood from trees they’ll wipe out and build Kingdom Halls, oh joy! Women with BIG smiles will carry baskets of exotic fruits on their bandanna’d heads and kids will play with lions while mom laughs. Oh good. Do I want to be that? Uh...no.
In the case they don't forget their loved ones who perished at Armageddon and have to live with that, then how is that different from now?
Add to that the truma of witnessing the terrible death of your loved ones by a fireball! I can´t imagine being happy after that, let alone worshiping the God who did it.
😎😎Love the haircut… ❤.
How sad! Wouldn’t it be beautiful and true and comforting if we believed in a God of mercy and love Who didn’t destroy anyone but loved and nurtured us all because He understands? I am a Believer in Jesus Who I have thought of and sought through my years following JW emptiness. Yet I cannot abide by what “Christianity(?)”, “Christiandom(?)” has become so I am content with the Peace of a Loving Father. In that, I know I will see my loved ones again. Jesus doesn’t make you choose. God is love. I grew up with having to “choose”: I was a child terrified my father (non-religious) would go to hell. My sister would definitely go to purgatory because we fought as siblings and she usually won (LOL), an unbaptised baby would go to Limbo, my mom in Heaven and holy cow...I was all over the place! THEN JWs made it simple:”Get on board the WT or you’ll ALL be destroyed and you won’t know or care...” (yes, that ‘dementia’ thing)...now I’m old and I know my God is comforting and Love and this I can rest in. Accept that He is not the Monster men have created Him to be. ♥️
Apologies for typing fingers.... Lol!
Your wife, bless her, is running on emotions due to empty promises conger-ed up by 8 men. Tell a lie often enough and it can become the truth, we are all susceptible. She is so lucky to have you, give her time, we all have to figure our own way out. For me it was that I found out what this organization is doing behind closed doors. Eg: Shares in worldly warfare weapon's, plus more. That shocked me to my seances and I left.
The Creator is the Most High and Sovereign God of Jesus Christ
Jesus Christ is the One given by the Creator all authority in heaven and on earth.
The teachings of Jesus Christ are -
1. the "Kingdom of God" and
2. "Resurrection of the Dead"
Who are mocking, defying, and opposing the Creator's Sovereignty and his Christ's authority and teachings?
ANSWER -
The Atheists, Agnostics, Catholics, Born Agains, JWs, Mormons, Muslims, Buddhists, SDAs, Baptists, Hindus, all fanatics of all Religions.
CONSEQUENCE -
All the great, intelligent, glorious, and powerful Atheists, Agnostics, and fanatics of all Christian and non-Christian Religions who are boasting and CLAIMING that the Creator and his Christ are worthless and useless are nothing but foolish and shameless human beings who'll just become worthless and useless dusts on earth forever after their painful and inescapable deaths.
The JW's do not have the authority over who gets resurrected, even if you leave the cult, it is God who grants you life and a resurrection. I know a lot of JW's leave and their faith in God and belief in the Bible goes, but i found something a million times better when i left, and i told the elders, who were eager to find out what it was. I don't think they have been told that before, lol.
armageddon is just a place name. Nothing else. But i am not sure about what end and saving did Matthew write in his gospel (Matthew 24:1-14). Maybe it is meant figurativelly.
If God's great plan of salvation involves giving you brain damage as a cure for your sadness, to make you happy in Paradise by forgetting your loved ones who didn't make it, ... it's a shitty plan to begin with.
I was raised JW… I’d like to share my story. How do I get in touch with Lloyd?
Hi! If you could send a summary through to jwwatchorg@gmail.com we'd be happy to hear from you!
I do feel that JW culture really hijacks the grieving process as Lloyd says when a Witness loses a loved one. If you grieve over a loved one too long, you're viewed as being "weak in the faith" and others in your congregation will assume that you don't have a strong belief in the "resurrection hope". JW funerals are often used to promote JW beliefs and practices, instead of honoring the life of the deceased person. Such an event is often used to try and convince longtime non-Witnesses to start Bible study courses with the JWs with the hope that prospective non-JW Bible students will eventually be baptized as official members of the JW Organization. You even have JWs who will proselytize in the comment section of online obituaries, and some will even write letters to the loved ones of people who have since passed away. Again, it's all rather manipulative. I'm glad that when I was involved with the JWs that I didn't do that kind of stuff. It just never seemed right to me.
She will see her dad again, but she must understand that JWs don't have a monopoly on the pathway to salvation imo.I believe there are many paths to Jehovah and Christ, not just one denomination.
That's a terrible haircut Lloyd .
I like it, but my oldest had shoulder length dreads and the younger has a man bun . Chacon son gout!
Literally not the point at all.
My jw nephew had this hair cut before going on holiday it's obviously frowned along in the hall so good on you loyd
Who said 'Only JW's will survive Armageddon?' WATCHTOWER. NOT the Bible. That's not what the Bible says. And besides, there's nothing about a worldwide genocide at Armageddon. It doesn't say anyone will die at Armageddon. It's mentioned once in the Bible and all it 's simply a war between two Kings.
men who are crooked and seek there own selfish desires wont help you see your loved ones again! those who refuse to put Yeshua in there lives! you might have escaped corruption only to be back in a bigger one run by the Devil and those who run corruption!
Well it is not about if you are a JW when armageddon comes, it all evens out once you are dead. Armageddon really only affect the people who happens to be alive when it hits. Jesus waited 1900 years to sit on the throne casting all evil to earth for a short time that has already spanned a whole human lifetime. So Jesus is clearly not in a hurry.
....je ne suis plus TJ...!!!...les écritures appartiennent a YHWH...1 Jean 5: 9 a 12...!!!
Repent while you can.
Why do you believe your god to be true?
Lloyd, what's with that haircut?
Look in a 360° mirror
Jesus is Lord God Almighty clothed in unsinful humanity and He is the author of "eternal life" to all who realize that they are sinners deserving of God's just punishment in Hell and turn (repent) from whatever they trusted in before, if indeed they trusted in anything; to trusting in the person and finished work of Christ alone for salvation.
The resurrection of the dead was promised by Jesus Christ, not by the Watchtower.
Why do believe that?
@@louhi6015 Well you should assume he believes the Bible to be accurate. That’s why he believes it. Why do you feel need to try to prove someone’s beliefs in god as being wrong?
@@learnwithjaredandmaria The difference between you and I is that I don't want to assume anything, that's why I ask questions.
Why you do you feel need to make so many assumptions about other people, so much so, that you created an account for it three weeks ago and now comment here on an atheist channel? Are you here to preach? Like Anastasia in her comment?
If you say Armageddon is gonna be here tomorrow, what’s gonna happen? The response will 99% of the time have something to do with “heart condition” it’s the same argument I’ve heard a thousand times