Hey lloyd, I'm mac from the voicemail. Thank you for the advice. Just an update for you. My ex moved out, my mom was shocked that nothing changed, she showed up again balling and begging me to come back, my dad tried to get me to go to a meeting with him and lashed out when I said no thanks. So I ended up sending them a long text that said.. "Hey mom and dad, I just want to let you know that I'm going to block your numbers. I'm not a fan of this off and on shunning. The only time you guys talk to me is when you're trying to convince me to go back. I will never be a witness again. I made my decision for conscientious reasons and I would like you to respect my decision. I understand your religion doesn't allow you to talk to me and that's fine, you do what you think is right and I'll do what I think is right. And I would also like you guys to not show up at my house randomly. It always turns into an argument about religion and I'm done talking about it. If you guys ever decide to have a normal relationship with me in the future, you can let me know via email or letter or have mia text me. I'll leave her number unblocked in case of an emergency. I just don't want you guys to be tempted to reach out to me. You aren't supposed to and I know where the conversation will go anyway. I miss you guys and love you. Sorry but this is how it needs to be for now." And then I blocked them. Just trying to move on. And I actually am seeing a therapist right now.
I’m in a similar situation. See my comment. I had to completely cut my family off. They will never change. I had to stick up for myself and stop letting them mentally abuse me. Look up Spiritual abuse in UA-cam. Some videos that really bring home the abuse JWs inflict on people. Stay strong. It does get better.
I told my mom in 2020 that I no longer believe. She actually shuns me less now that I've drawn a clear line in the sand, and she doesn't preach to me at all now.
i did that game playing back and forth with my mom for like 25 years until recently!!! I SAID I'VE HAD ENOUGH!!! I DON'T CALL ANYMORE...IF YOU WANNA BE SILLY AND DISOWN YOUR SON BECAUSE 8 DUMMIES IN NEW YORK SAID SO.....THEN I'M DISOWNING YOU! besides to the guy who called...it's not healty going back and forth like that! you'll be much more healthy going along with your life! Lloyd actually hit it on the head....THEY'RE TOXIC!
Had my aunt tell me to “comeback” when I visited my grandma on her deathbed in the hospital. Also am in the process of getting divorced from a extremist pioneer wife. Leaving this sick cult after being raised in it for 38 years is the best thing I’ve ever done. Being on the outside now looking in at how the JW’s act/operate is infuriating
You could say to your parents: “I will let you talk to me about your religion - if you try to understand and let me explain why I can’t be a JW anymore.” That might stop them from trying to get you back to the cult.
My ex's parents tried telling me all the usual stuff, "unevenly yoked" and such. I did not want to be a JW n my ex was DF'd before we met but they tried really hard to sucker me in. We've been split now almost 5 years and he still hasn't gone back. They have no one to blame but themselves and their abusiveness.
I agree with you Lloyd. This is clearly disrespect of personal boundaries that’ve been explained in writing and verbally. It’s hard to deal with parents who are like that and insist on that level of disrespect.
Boy, I sure do understand the frustration and stress Mac has been experiencing with his parents! It’s how I feel with my intensely loyal to the Watchtower sister and brother-in-law. Whew!!! However, when my sister recently told me that she feels totally fulfilled spiritually and emotionally as a Jehovah’s Witness any attempt on my part to express any negativity toward their beliefs came to a screeching halt! I would feel terrible if I somehow were to hurt my sister, possibly crushing her spirit and what to her is joy as a Jehovah’s Witness, so I just don’t want to discuss it any more. I just wish that she and my brother-in-law would do the same for me. Not push in any way their beliefs on me anymore. As a former Jehovah’s Witness I can understand why they do this. I used to think and feel that pushing the JW ‘religion’ down people’s throats was the right thing to do, was what i should do, was what I was supposed to do. Now I just find it very stressful when they refute anything I say about my own beliefs, about where I’m coming from and when they make comments about things ‘worldly’ people are saying and doing and about the kind of world we are living in and so on. I don’t want push back from them anymore than they want it from me. Yes, there are horrible, ‘beastly’ things going on in the world, but the ‘Watchtower’ organization is not the answer. I would like them to know that the NWT is doctored, but I didn’t get one iota of an inch with that the or anything else I mention. Their minds are made up. They are fully indoctrinated ‘Watchtowerites’. I might as well be talking to a wall.
@@karenwestberg5838 I hear you on all that. We kept trying to maintain contact with my spouse’s parents and brother for years using a lot of similar techniques. Our situation had disastrous outcomes so I hope yours has a better ending than ours was.
I am SO sorry for you and your spouse’s experience! Awful!!! My sister is still very bitter about my disassociating even over thirty-five years later. I hate what the ‘governing body’ does to the minds of the ‘rank and file’! It really, really messes people up!!!
I can relate my JW mother & sister are always pressuring me to return to Jehovah......even though I've told them many times it's over and I'am not returning, I was never baptized and never will be
@ BG Ramirez it makes me cringe to hear “return to Jehovah”… you can always have a relationship with GOD.. there is no Jehovah…what they mean is return to this cult….SMDH!!!
Lloyd I think you are amazing helping people who are facing such a traumatic time in their lives as they try to leave this cult, and you do this with such compassion and respect, thank you, all the way from Western Australia 🙂
Because shunning me has not and will not have result they dream of (making me “return to Jehovah” with the tail between my legs), my closest relatives and especially my mother try to guilt trip me saying that I (!) have have shut them off my life and have no love for them. The gaslighting is incredible. The reality is that as time passes I feel less and less desire to have a relationship with them and have blocked them too when they begin a new recruitment campaign despite me having made my position very clear!
not really, they were probably unhappy together and they split because they are not forced to be together by a tyrannical religion. Some relationships just don't work out and some people shouldn't be together
Yeah, it's probably a huge relief for them since they likely only married out of convenience. When you're raised with sex being so taboo and that only marriage can clear the path, you will marry anything with the understanding that as long as they're a JW, the rest is irrelevant. You find out the hard truth about 6 weeks in, and the rest of your life to hate yourself.
"Sometimes you have to do things you don't wanna do for your family." As if every ex-JW hasn't already tried this and found it impossible. Most of us were mentally out long before we stepped out; we try to fake it, but we just can't make it. Why doesn't his family consider making such a noble sacrifice for HIM? After all, they are worshiping the guy who they believe will kill their son at Armageddon for not being able to swallow the Governing Body's tripe. Why don't they even try to do for him what he most likely did for them before he got fed up: sacrifice their integrity in an effort to keep the family together?
My wife and i had a similar discussion with her father about attending meetings even if we dont believe anymore. Theyd rather have false members than genuine ones. At least in our case.
I did the exact same thing! I made my mother sign a document saying we would not have any further contact the last time she came to my place to tell me she had to shun me again. Now when I don’t respond to her messages and she gets mad at me and says I don’t have love for her, I send her a copy of it!
For years my mom thought I was going to return. I told her a few years ago “I haven’t been a part of this since I was 18. Do you honestly think I’m coming back?” By the way, I was 18 years old awhile ago. Never going back! No regrets!
What a good person you are Lloyd! Only wish that GB and all elders had 10% of your Wisdom...compassion and empathy! Your videos and advice are a great help to so many! Thanks!❤
When my JW Dad was dying of prostate cancer he was calling me atleast 3 times a day persuading me to return to the Watchtower because it will sadden him during resurrection not to see me because i would've perished in Armageddon
Unfortunately my family want me to return to Jeeeehovah. I am to the stage after being out and a wake and shunned for 40 years . I really don't like the family I have now as their brains would only be thinking one thing. I would not like being continually disrespected and manipulated . Also the false love bombing would send me over the edge I recon.
There are a lot of the callers that have only recently woke up and all of this sudden shunning and nonsense is a brand new experience. it takes some time to make the adjustments. First, you're completely floored by the fact that they could even employ conditional love to begin with. Sure, you hear about it happening to others, but SURELY your mother and father and siblings won't go so far. Well, they will and they do. That's a big pill to swallow. Frankly, even to fade is a ridiculous effort in my opinion if it's only for the sake of having your moronic family continue to speak with you on nothing more than a technicality, because they would absolutely knife your back if you were to just be df'd or resign. Mac, this really sucks. But, you will eventually get to the point where you are more than willing to cut them off if the entire relationship's existence is nothing more than prodding and reminders of what you're trying to forget. It sounds like you're already working on accepting that portion and I also had to do what you're message mentioned. You want to treat me badly? You don't get a spot in my life. Even though I had limited contact with family for the first several years I was out, it was only if I dropped in or someone was in the hospital. One day a encountered a photo album at my parent's house and it was photos of EVERYONE except me at family gatherings, parties, my brother's wedding, which I was never told in advance was even happening. That was it, and I'd just spend the weekend pet-sitting for my mother while she attended a convention. I decided that to be on the call list for whenever something shit happens but never if anything positive is taking place, that's not good enough and I'm not dropping in anymore. That was eight years ago and I've not dropped in, and I've not received a single phone call or anything in that entire period. I guess it was finally mutual. I was hurt at first, but that turned into rage and hate and I wouldn't respond to them if they were on fire at this point. That includes my own daughter, who just texted me after her 18th birthday and said she couldn't see me anymore. I've heard she got married and moved away, but I haven't been informed first hand about any of it. As far as I'm concerned, they are all dead.
That’s awful and disgusting what our own blood relatives do to us! That’s the lesson we all learn in life. That’s why they call I waking up; when u wake up, you realize everyone around 15:28 you is fake! 23:56 hours Saturday 21Jan2023.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I have had to deal with similar feelings and I’m seriously considering not responding to any of them even in case of an emergency or death… my grandma is in her mid 80s and my mother and aunts, with whom I was once very close are getting up there in age too and are not particularly healthy. They will reap what they have sown.
I think the caller does feel for his parents, because he knows they are terrified that their son will die in Armageddon, soon. Here's an idea for the caller: fortify yourself by reading a few books on failed Armageddon predictions (e.g. "William Miller" by George Knight or "Allies for Armageddon" by Victoria Clark). Then tell your parents that you are absolutely positive that no Armageddon will come anytime soon. Then tell them that you know where the Kingdom Hall is located, and if you ever feel any desire to rejoin the religion, you will know where to find them. And after that, the topic must rest. Like Lloyd said, you and your parents talk about anything else, just not religion... The fact is, this probably won't work. But if you can project cool and total certainty that Armageddon is not coming, perhaps they can pick that up and take some solace from it....
..... There is no need to cause further unnecessary DRAMA in your life! Get divorced, recover, move in.... Life is meant to be lived with joy, not suffering!
That is so on the nose. Witness parents are part of a high control structure. They're very jealous of their spheres of control. Children are supposed to be obedient and to know their place.
J.W are very persistent/stubborn people. When you say "no", they continue to try and cleverly convince you. My family has been in that organization for over 50 yrs. Taking "no" for an answer is not an option for many of them.
So I drove taxis for a few years and also Uber for several years I have literally tens of thousands of strangers people from all over the world all walks of life all beliefs many of them complete nut jobs and they sit in the back of my car and explain to me the mysteries of the universe I have seen and heard it all and I am completely agnostic and indifferent to the whole thing and I would just politely sit up front driving the car getting them to their stiff Nation safe and sound and I would smile and look back and say things like that's interesting I never knew that before you don't say you're kidding tell me more and I'd let them just go on and on about all whatever they want to talk about and then they get out of the car give me a huge tip because I quote listen to them" the word here is indifference...
While I certainly do not wish for the type of relationship Mac has with his family I'd be happy if my family occasionally talked to me about religion. I actually find it an interesting topic and welcome the challenge of defending evidence-based beliefs. Hope things turn out alright for you Mac.
Loyd, standing your ground is doing the very thing that we do not want them to do. Communication requires that we are patient, listen, and continue a chain of reasoning until we hit a bedrock motivation. This giving up nonsense won't help people get their families back. You've lost sight of the goal.
I hope if Mac is able to, I hope he can pursue therapy. It certainly sounds like his parents don't and will not respect his boundaries. But it should be remembered that they're likely highly indoctrinated. They blame his apostasy on his ex-wife, a fellow apostate. The man is going through a divorce, which must be hard enough, let alone having to deal with his parents constantly telling him how they believe he'll rejoin the JW faith when his ex-wife finds and moves into another home of her own. They're even saying that there are loopholes that their son can go through in order to get married to another woman--even though JWs are not allowed to get married again if their divorce from their previous marriage mate was not related to their spouse having engaged in adultery.
Hello , i would like listen your videos but I m French and i don’t understand. May you traduce with French voice ? We are a lot of French people who wants listen you. Thank you
It's nothing but tragic how families and friends can be torn apart over religious differences. The JWs believe that their faith is supposed to be divisive. If anything, when you are practicing your faith in this manner--it isn't helping to make the world a better place--if anything, you're utilizing your faith to act like a nuisance, to act unbelievably selfish and behave in unnecessary ways that inconvenience others. And that is NOT okay. Maybe one reason why people don't want to convert to or rejoin your faith is because of your own uncouth behavior and the kinds of doctrines that you promote. You have basically shot yourself in the foot over your faith. You have misplaced priorities, and maybe then it's a time for some self-reflection on your part.
THE REAL AND RAGING BATTLE TO THE DEATH ON PLANET EARTH - the loving, kind, and merciful Creator and his righteous Christ VS the hateful, cruel, and merciless Atheists, Agnostics, Fanatics of Religions and their arrogant, cruel, hateful, and merciless God and Father, Satan the Devil The LOVING, KIND, and MERCIFUL CREATOR and HIS CHRIST ARE UNITED IN THEIR COMMON ACTS and PURPOSE for IMPERFECT, SUFFERING, and DYING HUMAN BEINGS 1. The Creator will honor and reward all loving, kind, and submissive believers of his Christ's authority and teachings with ETERNAL LIFE and existence without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and deaths on a safe, secure, and peaceful earth without arrogant, cruel, and hateful persons, without liars, slanderers, deceivers, hypocrites, murderers, and criminals. 2. In the Creator's own right time, Jesus Christ will resurrect back to life all loving, kind, and submissive human beings who died even thousands of years ago like Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, King David, the Christ's disciples, and many others so they can live and exist again on a safe and peaceful earth as submissive and obedient subjects of the "Kingdom of God" and fully enjoy his and the Creator's eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, favors, blessings, and protection for eternity under his loving and kind rulership, guidance, and instructions as the One given by the Creator all authority in heaven and on earth. The HATEFUL, CRUEL, and MERCILESS ATHEISTS, AGNOSTICS, and FANATICS OF all RELIGIONS ARE UNITED IN THEIR COMMON ACTS and PURPOSE for THEMSELVES and THEIR OWN FAMILIES, FRIENDS, and NEIGHBORS 1. Join their arrogant, cruel, and merciless God Satan the Devil in slandering and opposing the Creator's Sovereignty and his Christ's authority and teachings about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead". 2. Deceive and trick their own families, friends, and neighbors to slander the Creator and worship Satan the Devil instead and reject too the authority and teachings of Jesus Christ and spread instead throughout the world the LIES, deceits, and foolishness of the anti-Christs Pastors and Leaders of Religions about "Armageddon", "hellfire", "rapture", "Trinity", and "reincarnation". 3. cause the sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and DEATHS of mankind including their own families, friends, and neighbors.
Sorry mate but your parents are crazy af.. they are not JW’s in behaviour clearly.. don’t let them bully you, find your own way and work on yourself.. divorce is stressful enough, so let your parents be and concentrate on your own path. Best of luck
Ok, it might be me. but if someone wouldn´t listen. I might go for the nuclear option. If I have a nice day I might give them a final warning. Pick something that a JW would be disfellowshiped for. but not breaking the law. then do it in a time and place that. as many as posible of the congregation will see it.
After listening to this phone call several times I have a couple thoughts the heart of your problem really has very little to do with Jehovah's Witnesses at all from what I can tell you still labor under the delusion that you have loving compassionate caring parents in fact you don't and I suspect you never did your mother had to turn the GPS off her phone and sneak around her own husband in order to have contact with her own child which tells me right away that she is a severe codependent she was probably the victim of abuse yourself as a child either mentally physically or sexually your father's uncaring completely unimpaired static response to you pouring your heart and soul out to him in a letter and his responses that's a weak argument he is a complete psychopath he have no remorse no regrets and has very little feelings of compassion or empathy or love towards his family what you have thought your whole life was love and affection and attention in fact was merely crumbs that your parents gave you as a reward for your absolute obedience and allegiance to their will and now you see what really happens at how they really feel about you now that you as a grown man have decided to not submit to their will anymore and now you see the truth I know it hurts all these years you thought you were receiving love affection and attention but it was conditional their so-called love affection and attention was only offered to you submitting to their will I know this is hard for people to believe not every parent loves their children not every parent wants the best for their children not every parent wants to see their child succeed them there are many people who merely have children so that they have something and someone to rule over very well could be the case with your parents I would caution you against any sort of fantasy of a equal footing and is long as you're willing to accept those conditions then you will receive resembles love and affection that is the million- dollar question
Poor guy you need to go to another city , get a job, and do not give JW a letter . Just quit going to JW meetings!! You got a place to go...leave. You can survive without the JW. It is hard but you need your freedom. It is scary and hard but try to leave or go to another city.Can you connect to another Ex JW in your area or move? You need to get some room to grow and develop yourself. Divorce is hard....do you have children now? If no children I d move. Really Ex Jw need a network to help each other
NO THEY ARE NOT TOXIC PARENTS. loyd should NOT have said that. It may not seem like it but you're lucky dude. Your parents want you to come back because they don't want to be seperated from you. That is an in to discuss things. Obviously they are resistant. Of course they will be, theres alot riding on it for them. It seems like alot has yet to be resolved and you need to do alot more research. Not so much into the witnesses but in logic and falacies. Basically you need to be able to think critically and dissect your reasons and their reasons so that both you understand everything better and can communicate more effectively.
Aside from the JW situation your parents are master manipulators and I suspect they've been manipulating you your it higher life and they're pissed that their manipulation no longer works Darren stage 1 of grief which is called denial next comes anger and bargaining finally acceptance they're still in denial and they believe that this is just a phase and you're going to come back and everything will be a okay just wait till you get to the your mother is already tried the bargaining phase where she tries to create the situations that will allow you to come back to the organization sort of in name only so that they can save face to their friends and fellow congregation members the next stage will be a force anger and manipulation won't hear from them ever again I have a sister I haven't talked to her in over 10 years and I doubt seriously if I will talk to her in another 10 years if ever
The opposite of Love is indifference I would say that you carry an incredible amount of anger and resentment towards your parents for the way you were raised and as much as they're trying to manipulate and weaponize religion against you you are weaponizing your relationship with them against them you're throwing a temper tantrum blocking their number? Why nearly through the telephone lol the reason you bought their numbers you wanted to hurt them as much as they hurt you that's the real reason if you are truly indifferent or agnostic then you would be able to pick up the phone when your mother calls or comes over and visit sit politely listen to all her crazy stupid schemes and with a big old loving smile on your face say well Mom stranger things have happened you never know so when's the next time you want to hang out give her a hug and send her on her way your parents have no special magical power over you the only Power and control they have over you is what you allow them to have but I get it this is all new to you this is how everyone who wakes up starts out there was a time in my life when I was scared to even say the word Jehovah because of my upbringing I thought it had mystical magical power I would feel nervous if I accidentally drove past the kingdom what cause me anxiety now I am completely agnostic I could literally sit walking to the Kingdom Hall sit through the whole gobbledygook nonsense walk out and say well that was a waste of few hours and laugh it off my family my relatives have no power or authority over my thoughts or mind or heart any longer that is where you want to go become completely indifferent and agnostic about the whole subject but it takes time and a lot of soul-searching you have to become a fully-formed confident human being in your own belief system right now you're not you're still that scared little boy that's being drugged by your mommy into the Kingdom Hall and having this nonsense forced down your throat the greatest joy you will ever have in your life is when you can sit with your family and listen to all their stupid nonsense and smile and say I love you all let's do this again sometime walk out of the room and go live your life just as it always was then and only then will you truly be free from this nonsense
I read your three-page manifesto, and I brought you a gift. It’s a clump of blank space. You can use it to separate long, rambling, unrelated sentences. Next week I’ll introduce you to a little curvy thing that I call a comma.
@@wolfie8012 clever LOL I know it's a scary Brave New World in literature out there you're complaint should be with Google talk to text apparently doesn't add punctuation and I don't have time to go through and edit College papers so Google says that in the next five years no one will write anything ever again so we'll see
@@wolfie8012 by the way if you happen to know any gen Z this is how they write one long streaming constant rambling stream-of-consciousness however in general it gets the point across
@@wolfie8012 look for those that don't want to read my long rambling diatribe I'll give you the cliff notes version he has selfish shity parents they always wear that way they're always going to be that way ultimately has to choose to react or not react if he chooses to have a relationship with his family he will have to acquiesce and accept them for the selfish egotistical parents that they are...
Hey lloyd, I'm mac from the voicemail. Thank you for the advice. Just an update for you. My ex moved out, my mom was shocked that nothing changed, she showed up again balling and begging me to come back, my dad tried to get me to go to a meeting with him and lashed out when I said no thanks. So I ended up sending them a long text that said.. "Hey mom and dad, I just want to let you know that I'm going to block your numbers. I'm not a fan of this off and on shunning. The only time you guys talk to me is when you're trying to convince me to go back. I will never be a witness again. I made my decision for conscientious reasons and I would like you to respect my decision. I understand your religion doesn't allow you to talk to me and that's fine, you do what you think is right and I'll do what I think is right. And I would also like you guys to not show up at my house randomly. It always turns into an argument about religion and I'm done talking about it. If you guys ever decide to have a normal relationship with me in the future, you can let me know via email or letter or have mia text me. I'll leave her number unblocked in case of an emergency. I just don't want you guys to be tempted to reach out to me. You aren't supposed to and I know where the conversation will go anyway. I miss you guys and love you. Sorry but this is how it needs to be for now." And then I blocked them. Just trying to move on.
And I actually am seeing a therapist right now.
Well done Mac! Great job with insisting on your boundaries and consulting a therapist. Wishing you peace and happiness from here on in! 🙂
I wish you the best, Mac!
I’m in a similar situation. See my comment. I had to completely cut my family off. They will never change. I had to stick up for myself and stop letting them mentally abuse me. Look up Spiritual abuse in UA-cam. Some videos that really bring home the abuse JWs inflict on people. Stay strong. It does get better.
Wishing you all the best mac, the road is long but you'll make it
Good rebuttal Mac!
I told my mom in 2020 that I no longer believe. She actually shuns me less now that I've drawn a clear line in the sand, and she doesn't preach to me at all now.
Lucky you.
i did that game playing back and forth with my mom for like 25 years until recently!!! I SAID I'VE HAD ENOUGH!!! I DON'T CALL ANYMORE...IF YOU WANNA BE SILLY AND DISOWN YOUR SON BECAUSE 8 DUMMIES IN NEW YORK SAID SO.....THEN I'M DISOWNING YOU! besides to the guy who called...it's not healty going back and forth like that! you'll be much more healthy going along with your life! Lloyd actually hit it on the head....THEY'RE TOXIC!
Had my aunt tell me to “comeback” when I visited my grandma on her deathbed in the hospital. Also am in the process of getting divorced from a extremist pioneer wife. Leaving this sick cult after being raised in it for 38 years is the best thing I’ve ever done. Being on the outside now looking in at how the JW’s act/operate is infuriating
It's like being in prison for 20, 30 years and then released lots of issues have to be iron out and to think about suicidal thoughts
@@joegonzalez842 we also have to acclimate to life outside the org. Same as people that get out of stick built prisons
I would not take even a portion of that from my parents.
Ask them to dissociate themselves to 'fix the family' every single time they ask you to come back.
Never get baptized.
Can’t tell you how many times my Mormon parents have said you’ll come back😂
You could say to your parents: “I will let you talk to me about your religion - if you try to understand and let me explain why I can’t be a JW anymore.”
That might stop them from trying to get you back to the cult.
My ex's parents tried telling me all the usual stuff, "unevenly yoked" and such. I did not want to be a JW n my ex was DF'd before we met but they tried really hard to sucker me in. We've been split now almost 5 years and he still hasn't gone back. They have no one to blame but themselves and their abusiveness.
I agree with you Lloyd. This is clearly disrespect of personal boundaries that’ve been explained in writing and verbally. It’s hard to deal with parents who are like that and insist on that level of disrespect.
Boy, I sure do understand the frustration and stress Mac has been experiencing with his parents! It’s how I feel with my intensely loyal to the Watchtower sister and brother-in-law. Whew!!! However, when my sister recently told me that she feels totally fulfilled spiritually and emotionally as a Jehovah’s Witness any attempt on my part to express any negativity toward their beliefs came to a screeching halt! I would feel terrible if I somehow were to hurt my sister, possibly crushing her spirit and what to her is joy as a Jehovah’s Witness, so I just don’t want to discuss it any more. I just wish that she and my brother-in-law would do the same for me. Not push in any way their beliefs on me anymore. As a former Jehovah’s Witness I can understand why they do this. I used to think and feel that pushing the JW ‘religion’ down people’s throats was the right thing to do, was what i should do, was what I was supposed to do. Now I just find it very stressful when they refute anything I say about my own beliefs, about where I’m coming from and when they make comments about things ‘worldly’ people are saying and doing and about the kind of world we are living in and so on. I don’t want push back from them anymore than they want it from me. Yes, there are horrible, ‘beastly’ things going on in the world, but the ‘Watchtower’ organization is not the answer. I would like them to know that the NWT is doctored, but I didn’t get one iota of an inch with that the or anything else I mention. Their minds are made up. They are fully indoctrinated ‘Watchtowerites’. I might as well be talking to a wall.
@@karenwestberg5838 I hear you on all that. We kept trying to maintain contact with my spouse’s parents and brother for years using a lot of similar techniques. Our situation had disastrous outcomes so I hope yours has a better ending than ours was.
I am SO sorry for you and your spouse’s experience! Awful!!! My sister is still very bitter about my disassociating even over thirty-five years later. I hate what the ‘governing body’ does to the minds of the ‘rank and file’! It really, really messes people up!!!
I can relate my JW mother & sister are always pressuring me to return to Jehovah......even though I've told them many times it's over and I'am not returning, I was never baptized and never will be
@ BG Ramirez it makes me cringe to hear “return to Jehovah”… you can always have a relationship with GOD.. there is no Jehovah…what they mean is return to this cult….SMDH!!!
@@symone3113 so true everytime I hear it I get physically ill knowing TTATT
'back to normal' being in a cult is is not normal.
Lloyd I think you are amazing helping people who are facing such a traumatic time in their lives as they try to leave this cult, and you do this with such compassion and respect, thank you, all the way from Western Australia 🙂
Thanks so much Julie!
Because shunning me has not and will not have result they dream of (making me “return to Jehovah” with the tail between my legs), my closest relatives and especially my mother try to guilt trip me saying that I (!) have have shut them off my life and have no love for them. The gaslighting is incredible. The reality is that as time passes I feel less and less desire to have a relationship with them and have blocked them too when they begin a new recruitment campaign despite me having made my position very clear!
It's sad to hear how many couples getting divorced after they wake up.
not really, they were probably unhappy together and they split because they are not forced to be together by a tyrannical religion. Some relationships just don't work out and some people shouldn't be together
Hard to know reasons why they're getting divorced. A lot of people, no matter religion, get divorced.
@@TruthDoesNotExist exactly
Yeah, it's probably a huge relief for them since they likely only married out of convenience. When you're raised with sex being so taboo and that only marriage can clear the path, you will marry anything with the understanding that as long as they're a JW, the rest is irrelevant. You find out the hard truth about 6 weeks in, and the rest of your life to hate yourself.
@@Eric_01 6 weeks is about right when you realize the mistake you made. I spend 7 years of misery before I finally had enough.
Funny how my mom won’t stop talking to me, even when I’ve mentioned “I thought you weren’t supposed to talk to me?” 😏
"Sometimes you have to do things you don't wanna do for your family."
As if every ex-JW hasn't already tried this and found it impossible. Most of us were mentally out long before we stepped out; we try to fake it, but we just can't make it. Why doesn't his family consider making such a noble sacrifice for HIM? After all, they are worshiping the guy who they believe will kill their son at Armageddon for not being able to swallow the Governing Body's tripe. Why don't they even try to do for him what he most likely did for them before he got fed up: sacrifice their integrity in an effort to keep the family together?
Facts
What a brilliant analysis. Watching your wonderful channel from France. Keep up your amazing work, you are saving people on this channel
Lloyd ALWAYS MAKES GOOD SENSE SHOUT OUT TO HIM PEACE MY FRIEND LOVE ❤️ YOUR VIDEOS I AGREE TOTALLY 💯
My wife and i had a similar discussion with her father about attending meetings even if we dont believe anymore. Theyd rather have false members than genuine ones. At least in our case.
Great advice Lloyd!
He should have made copies of that letter so that he could send it to them periodically!
I did the exact same thing! I made my mother sign a document saying we would not have any further contact the last time she came to my place to tell me she had to shun me again. Now when I don’t respond to her messages and she gets mad at me and says I don’t have love for her, I send her a copy of it!
For years my mom thought I was going to return. I told her a few years ago “I haven’t been a part of this since I was 18. Do you honestly think I’m coming back?” By the way, I was 18 years old awhile ago. Never going back! No regrets!
"Sometimes you have to do things for family you dont want to do", Well that goes both ways Pops.
Yeah I have come to realize I have no family ,at least not a loving family ,not all are JW but it doesn't matter there's zero love in my family .
Right on, Lloyd. Best advise possible.
What a good person you are Lloyd! Only wish that GB and all elders had 10% of your Wisdom...compassion and empathy! Your videos and advice are a great help to so many! Thanks!❤
When my JW Dad was dying of prostate cancer he was calling me atleast 3 times a day persuading me to return to the Watchtower because it will sadden him during resurrection not to see me because i would've perished in Armageddon
Tell him it will be ok. Tell him that he will be so happy to be there that he will not be sad. Thats what was told to me when i was still in.
Unfortunately my family want me to return to Jeeeehovah. I
am to the stage after being out and a wake and shunned for 40 years . I really don't like the family I have now as their brains would only be thinking one thing. I would not like being continually disrespected and manipulated . Also the false love bombing would send me over the edge I recon.
I'm curious, after 40 years, how would have any family contact at all?
@@Eric_01 because my mother still rings from time to time to repent my evil doings and come back to Jeeeehovah.
There are a lot of the callers that have only recently woke up and all of this sudden shunning and nonsense is a brand new experience. it takes some time to make the adjustments. First, you're completely floored by the fact that they could even employ conditional love to begin with. Sure, you hear about it happening to others, but SURELY your mother and father and siblings won't go so far. Well, they will and they do. That's a big pill to swallow. Frankly, even to fade is a ridiculous effort in my opinion if it's only for the sake of having your moronic family continue to speak with you on nothing more than a technicality, because they would absolutely knife your back if you were to just be df'd or resign.
Mac, this really sucks. But, you will eventually get to the point where you are more than willing to cut them off if the entire relationship's existence is nothing more than prodding and reminders of what you're trying to forget. It sounds like you're already working on accepting that portion and I also had to do what you're message mentioned. You want to treat me badly? You don't get a spot in my life. Even though I had limited contact with family for the first several years I was out, it was only if I dropped in or someone was in the hospital. One day a encountered a photo album at my parent's house and it was photos of EVERYONE except me at family gatherings, parties, my brother's wedding, which I was never told in advance was even happening. That was it, and I'd just spend the weekend pet-sitting for my mother while she attended a convention. I decided that to be on the call list for whenever something shit happens but never if anything positive is taking place, that's not good enough and I'm not dropping in anymore. That was eight years ago and I've not dropped in, and I've not received a single phone call or anything in that entire period. I guess it was finally mutual. I was hurt at first, but that turned into rage and hate and I wouldn't respond to them if they were on fire at this point. That includes my own daughter, who just texted me after her 18th birthday and said she couldn't see me anymore. I've heard she got married and moved away, but I haven't been informed first hand about any of it. As far as I'm concerned, they are all dead.
That’s awful and disgusting what our own blood relatives do to us! That’s the lesson we all learn in life. That’s why they call I waking up; when u wake up, you realize everyone around 15:28 you is fake! 23:56 hours Saturday 21Jan2023.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I have had to deal with similar feelings and I’m seriously considering not responding to any of them even in case of an emergency or death… my grandma is in her mid 80s and my mother and aunts, with whom I was once very close are getting up there in age too and are not particularly healthy. They will reap what they have sown.
@@wolfie8012 Exactly. When the only aspect of someone's life that they'll still include you in is the death, then that's a dynamic I want no part of.
I think the caller does feel for his parents, because he knows they are terrified that their son will die in Armageddon, soon. Here's an idea for the caller: fortify yourself by reading a few books on failed Armageddon predictions (e.g. "William Miller" by George Knight or "Allies for Armageddon" by Victoria Clark). Then tell your parents that you are absolutely positive that no Armageddon will come anytime soon. Then tell them that you know where the Kingdom Hall is located, and if you ever feel any desire to rejoin the religion, you will know where to find them. And after that, the topic must rest. Like Lloyd said, you and your parents talk about anything else, just not religion... The fact is, this probably won't work. But if you can project cool and total certainty that Armageddon is not coming, perhaps they can pick that up and take some solace from it....
..... There is no need to cause further unnecessary DRAMA in your life! Get divorced, recover, move in.... Life is meant to be lived with joy, not suffering!
Good advise . Straight to the point
I think your parents do not see you as an individual but as a 'son' object that should be what they want, need, ask him to be.
That is so on the nose. Witness parents are part of a high control structure. They're very jealous of their spheres of control. Children are supposed to be obedient and to know their place.
@@Dgarig665 Indeed that is how I experienced my JW parents!
@@pamelaruth7400 oddly enough, mine too.
I've been disfellowshipped for 30 years. Your family is going to be painful for a long time. Sorry.
J.W are very persistent/stubborn people. When you say "no", they continue to try and cleverly convince you. My family has been in that organization for over 50 yrs. Taking "no" for an answer is not an option for many of them.
Yah and if the congressman's plane made it off the runway in Jones Town , he'd still be alive or a ripe old age
Shut her location??? Who's checking her location?
I feel you!
The caller sounds like penguinz0
So I drove taxis for a few years and also Uber for several years I have literally tens of thousands of strangers people from all over the world all walks of life all beliefs many of them complete nut jobs and they sit in the back of my car and explain to me the mysteries of the universe I have seen and heard it all and I am completely agnostic and indifferent to the whole thing and I would just politely sit up front driving the car getting them to their stiff Nation safe and sound and I would smile and look back and say things like that's interesting I never knew that before you don't say you're kidding tell me more and I'd let them just go on and on about all whatever they want to talk about and then they get out of the car give me a huge tip because I quote listen to them" the word here is indifference...
Periods.
😂 It sounds like my experiences in field service, except you were getting paid. Nice gig.
I cant get the speakpipe thing to work to leave a message :/
It just says cannot be found 😥
While I certainly do not wish for the type of relationship Mac has with his family I'd be happy if my family occasionally talked to me about religion. I actually find it an interesting topic and welcome the challenge of defending evidence-based beliefs.
Hope things turn out alright for you Mac.
This guy IS ME
Loyd, standing your ground is doing the very thing that we do not want them to do. Communication requires that we are patient, listen, and continue a chain of reasoning until we hit a bedrock motivation. This giving up nonsense won't help people get their families back. You've lost sight of the goal.
Proszę o włączenie polskiej wersji tłumaczenia w ustawieniach YT. ❤️
I love how you're ALWAYS BLUNT
I hope if Mac is able to, I hope he can pursue therapy. It certainly sounds like his parents don't and will not respect his boundaries. But it should be remembered that they're likely highly indoctrinated. They blame his apostasy on his ex-wife, a fellow apostate. The man is going through a divorce, which must be hard enough, let alone having to deal with his parents constantly telling him how they believe he'll rejoin the JW faith when his ex-wife finds and moves into another home of her own. They're even saying that there are loopholes that their son can go through in order to get married to another woman--even though JWs are not allowed to get married again if their divorce from their previous marriage mate was not related to their spouse having engaged in adultery.
Johovah is out loving got
Hello , i would like listen your videos but I m French and i don’t understand.
May you traduce with French voice ? We are a lot of French people who wants listen you.
Thank you
It's nothing but tragic how families and friends can be torn apart over religious differences. The JWs believe that their faith is supposed to be divisive. If anything, when you are practicing your faith in this manner--it isn't helping to make the world a better place--if anything, you're utilizing your faith to act like a nuisance, to act unbelievably selfish and behave in unnecessary ways that inconvenience others. And that is NOT okay. Maybe one reason why people don't want to convert to or rejoin your faith is because of your own uncouth behavior and the kinds of doctrines that you promote. You have basically shot yourself in the foot over your faith. You have misplaced priorities, and maybe then it's a time for some self-reflection on your part.
THE REAL AND RAGING BATTLE TO THE DEATH ON PLANET EARTH -
the loving, kind, and merciful Creator and his righteous Christ
VS
the hateful, cruel, and merciless Atheists, Agnostics, Fanatics of Religions and their arrogant, cruel, hateful, and merciless God and Father, Satan the Devil
The LOVING, KIND, and MERCIFUL CREATOR and HIS CHRIST ARE UNITED IN THEIR COMMON ACTS and PURPOSE for IMPERFECT, SUFFERING, and DYING HUMAN BEINGS
1. The Creator will honor and reward all loving, kind, and submissive believers of his Christ's authority and teachings with ETERNAL LIFE and existence without sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and deaths on a safe, secure, and peaceful earth without arrogant, cruel, and hateful persons, without liars, slanderers, deceivers, hypocrites, murderers, and criminals.
2. In the Creator's own right time, Jesus Christ will resurrect back to life all loving, kind, and submissive human beings who died even thousands of years ago like Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, King David, the Christ's disciples, and many others so they can live and exist again on a safe and peaceful earth as submissive and obedient subjects of the "Kingdom of God" and fully enjoy his and the Creator's eternal love, kindness, goodness, generosities, favors, blessings, and protection for eternity under his loving and kind rulership, guidance, and instructions as the One given by the Creator all authority in heaven and on earth.
The HATEFUL, CRUEL, and MERCILESS ATHEISTS, AGNOSTICS, and FANATICS OF all RELIGIONS ARE UNITED IN THEIR COMMON ACTS and PURPOSE for THEMSELVES and THEIR OWN FAMILIES, FRIENDS, and NEIGHBORS
1. Join their arrogant, cruel, and merciless God Satan the Devil in slandering and opposing the Creator's Sovereignty and his Christ's authority and teachings about the "Kingdom of God" and "Resurrection of the Dead".
2. Deceive and trick their own families, friends, and neighbors to slander the Creator and worship Satan the Devil instead and reject too the authority and teachings of Jesus Christ and spread instead throughout the world the LIES, deceits, and foolishness of the anti-Christs Pastors and Leaders of Religions about "Armageddon", "hellfire", "rapture", "Trinity", and "reincarnation".
3. cause the sufferings, pains, griefs, sickness, and DEATHS of mankind including their own families, friends, and neighbors.
Sorry mate but your parents are crazy af.. they are not JW’s in behaviour clearly.. don’t let them bully you, find your own way and work on yourself.. divorce is stressful enough, so let your parents be and concentrate on your own path. Best of luck
How can I contact you???? I need advice 🥺💔
Gid
Ok, it might be me. but if someone wouldn´t listen. I might go for the nuclear option. If I have a nice day I might give them a final warning. Pick something that a JW would be disfellowshiped for. but not breaking the law. then do it in a time and place that. as many as posible of the congregation will see it.
After listening to this phone call several times I have a couple thoughts the heart of your problem really has very little to do with Jehovah's Witnesses at all from what I can tell you still labor under the delusion that you have loving compassionate caring parents in fact you don't and I suspect you never did your mother had to turn the GPS off her phone and sneak around her own husband in order to have contact with her own child which tells me right away that she is a severe codependent she was probably the victim of abuse yourself as a child either mentally physically or sexually your father's uncaring completely unimpaired static response to you pouring your heart and soul out to him in a letter and his responses that's a weak argument he is a complete psychopath he have no remorse no regrets and has very little feelings of compassion or empathy or love towards his family what you have thought your whole life was love and affection and attention in fact was merely crumbs that your parents gave you as a reward for your absolute obedience and allegiance to their will and now you see what really happens at how they really feel about you now that you as a grown man have decided to not submit to their will anymore and now you see the truth I know it hurts all these years you thought you were receiving love affection and attention but it was conditional their so-called love affection and attention was only offered to you submitting to their will I know this is hard for people to believe not every parent loves their children not every parent wants the best for their children not every parent wants to see their child succeed them there are many people who merely have children so that they have something and someone to rule over very well could be the case with your parents I would caution you against any sort of fantasy of a equal footing and is long as you're willing to accept those conditions then you will receive resembles love and affection that is the million- dollar question
Poor guy you need to go to another city , get a job, and do not give JW a letter . Just quit going to JW meetings!! You got a place to go...leave. You can survive without the JW. It is hard but you need your freedom. It is scary and hard but try to leave or go to another city.Can you connect to another Ex JW in your area or move? You need to get some room to grow and develop yourself. Divorce is hard....do you have children now? If no children I d move. Really Ex Jw need a network to help each other
I don't have kids and I am thinking of moving away. Just need some time
NO THEY ARE NOT TOXIC PARENTS. loyd should NOT have said that.
It may not seem like it but you're lucky dude. Your parents want you to come back because they don't want to be seperated from you. That is an in to discuss things. Obviously they are resistant. Of course they will be, theres alot riding on it for them. It seems like alot has yet to be resolved and you need to do alot more research. Not so much into the witnesses but in logic and falacies. Basically you need to be able to think critically and dissect your reasons and their reasons so that both you understand everything better and can communicate more effectively.
Aside from the JW situation your parents are master manipulators and I suspect they've been manipulating you your it higher life and they're pissed that their manipulation no longer works Darren stage 1 of grief which is called denial next comes anger and bargaining finally acceptance they're still in denial and they believe that this is just a phase and you're going to come back and everything will be a okay just wait till you get to the your mother is already tried the bargaining phase where she tries to create the situations that will allow you to come back to the organization sort of in name only so that they can save face to their friends and fellow congregation members the next stage will be a force anger and manipulation won't hear from them ever again I have a sister I haven't talked to her in over 10 years and I doubt seriously if I will talk to her in another 10 years if ever
The opposite of Love is indifference I would say that you carry an incredible amount of anger and resentment towards your parents for the way you were raised and as much as they're trying to manipulate and weaponize religion against you you are weaponizing your relationship with them against them you're throwing a temper tantrum blocking their number? Why nearly through the telephone lol the reason you bought their numbers you wanted to hurt them as much as they hurt you that's the real reason if you are truly indifferent or agnostic then you would be able to pick up the phone when your mother calls or comes over and visit sit politely listen to all her crazy stupid schemes and with a big old loving smile on your face say well Mom stranger things have happened you never know so when's the next time you want to hang out give her a hug and send her on her way your parents have no special magical power over you the only Power and control they have over you is what you allow them to have but I get it this is all new to you this is how everyone who wakes up starts out there was a time in my life when I was scared to even say the word Jehovah because of my upbringing I thought it had mystical magical power I would feel nervous if I accidentally drove past the kingdom what cause me anxiety now I am completely agnostic I could literally sit walking to the Kingdom Hall sit through the whole gobbledygook nonsense walk out and say well that was a waste of few hours and laugh it off my family my relatives have no power or authority over my thoughts or mind or heart any longer that is where you want to go become completely indifferent and agnostic about the whole subject but it takes time and a lot of soul-searching you have to become a fully-formed confident human being in your own belief system right now you're not you're still that scared little boy that's being drugged by your mommy into the Kingdom Hall and having this nonsense forced down your throat the greatest joy you will ever have in your life is when you can sit with your family and listen to all their stupid nonsense and smile and say I love you all let's do this again sometime walk out of the room and go live your life just as it always was then and only then will you truly be free from this nonsense
I read your three-page manifesto, and I brought you a gift. It’s a clump of blank space. You can use it to separate long, rambling, unrelated sentences. Next week I’ll introduce you to a little curvy thing that I call a comma.
@@wolfie8012 clever LOL I know it's a scary Brave New World in literature out there you're complaint should be with Google talk to text apparently doesn't add punctuation and I don't have time to go through and edit College papers so Google says that in the next five years no one will write anything ever again so we'll see
@@wolfie8012 by the way if you happen to know any gen Z this is how they write one long streaming constant rambling stream-of-consciousness however in general it gets the point across
@@wolfie8012 also did you know that if you write a message to a gen z person and you use a. They take it as you are being angry and aggressive
@@wolfie8012 look for those that don't want to read my long rambling diatribe I'll give you the cliff notes version he has selfish shity parents they always wear that way they're always going to be that way ultimately has to choose to react or not react if he chooses to have a relationship with his family he will have to acquiesce and accept them for the selfish egotistical parents that they are...