Harris Had a Theory of Trump, and It Was Right
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2024
- Tuesday night was the first - perhaps the only - debate between Donald Trump and Kamala Harris. And it proved one of Harris’s stump speech lines right: Turns out she really does know Trump’s type. She had a theory of who Trump was and how he worked, and she used it to take control of the collision. But this was a substantive debate, too. The candidates clashed on abortion, health care, the economy, energy, immigration and more. And so we delve into the policy arguments to untangle what was really being said - and what wasn’t.
Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com.
You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast (www.nytimes.co...) . Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at www.nytimes.co... (www.nytimes.co...) .
This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Claire Gordon. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Kate Sinclair and Jack McCordick. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld. Our senior editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Aman Sahota. Original music by Isaac Jones. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.
Omg. As a woman of color, there were SO many more "rules" on her. Don't get emotional, don't be too cold, prosecute Trump, state your policies, etc, etc, etc... She's amazing but she's only one person. Trump couldn't do the tiniest portion of that and the rules are different for him. He once again proved he's the OPPOSITE of a "stable genius".
Indeed.
She had every trip wire placed on her and still stepped through. I can't imagine a better candidate.
You are so right. How comes he gets away with no answers to anything? She played him for the entire debate and you want her to run through her entire policy manifesto at the same time as wiping the floor with him. As for value communication, he has no values. You are over analysing. The choice is simple. Do you want an incompetent, rambling fool with no grip on the issues and is unable to moderate himself to run your country?
Yeah there's a double standard on Trump vs any democratic candidate but Harris even more due to her race sadly. The rules are different for Trump because most people fear having to deal with Trump Narcissistic rage.
Women in politics are held to a much higher standard than men. It's the old double standard.
My god, how high must the bar be for Kamala?! Why does the media expect she had to introduce herself to the public, outline in-depth policy, respond to attacks, go after trump, and do all the fact checking inside *every* question she was asked. All while delivering every line perfectly, never getting angry and never sounding like she prepared. And then you criticise if she doesn't hit any one of those 100%
Do you know what we expect? For our news media to be fucking realistic about the expectations you're setting
It is sexism! Men, deep down, do not think that women can be a leader. This was a sexist microagression of a podcast. I hope ezra is reading these comments!
Remember that a woman must do twice the work of a man to be considered competent. It’s so unfair, but that’s the reality😢
And dance backwards in heels
@@traigounregalo This isn't twice the work, though. More like... 5x.
...and for the media to treat each candidate equally. We saw the lopsidedness of their reporting between Biden and Trump. "Biden is delusional! Biden is too old! Biden is showing signs of mental deterioration!" they screamed. Trump has been showing all these signs and more when he was president. The media's ageism and hypocrisy were front and centre when Biden gaffed, but were so meek and almost apologetic when Trump lied, denied and quickly devolved into a blathering headcase.
Not that Trump fans are reading this but the fact that he was so easily baited should be concerning about how easily manipulated he is by foreign intelligence agencies.
Exactly!
Absolutely. I think the Harris campaign should run on ad on this. The way she literally manipulated him was genius.
Yes, easily manipulated by a foreign agent, and now he's married to one.
Someone like Loomer is the type of person an agency would insert into his orbit.
Just like the last time , he provoked Afghanistan , And coronavirus started spreading !!
The complicity of the NY Times in normalising Trump is unredeemable.
It's a liberal political failing, for sure. We all want to believe that they are just one college 101 class from thinking like us.
Seriously I don't understand the nitpicking. If you want more on her policy it's on her website now. Maybe she can go on some policy wonk podcast to appease the nerds
@@merchantfan exactly. Most people don't watch debates to hear about the policy. They want to see how the candidates perform under pressure. If you want to know precise policies, go look at the websites. It's not rocket science.
So f'n true
Thanks.
Saying that Trump was not connected to reality was gold; actually SHOWING it-was priceless.
I like it when Ezra has guests and they tell him he is wrong.
Without someone to push back he goes down intellectual rabbit holes and ends up looking silly.
Perhaps because he IS silly. He certainly lacks depth of perspective and experience.
@@DameAlys it is a Murdoch publication 🤣
Trump was kind of in shock. He’s so ensconced in his safe Fox News world that no-one ever asks him difficult questions or confronts him with the truth.
I despise Trump, but the truth is, he and JD Vance have been on many and much more hostile media platforms than Kamala. For the simple reason they're not shy about talkin' crazy talk and bare-faced lying.
The fact that they (Trump/Vance) DIDN’T even DISCUSS what their talking points on women’s reproductive health would be, says it wasn’t even important enough to them to come up with a talking point, not even a consideration, not worth the oxygen. Just WOW.
Point taken. Thanks.
I think they did discuss with the campaign, they had to have. I highly doubt JD Vance just made up his statement about Trump vetoing an abortion ban bill. Trump was lying about that and throwing Vance under the bus in the process because he didnt want to give a straight answer. It would either alienate his prolife support or further fuel those for whom abortion access is a top reason to vote against him. But yes for a viewer to believe his answer at face value, that they just never got around to discussing it, is astounding.
that's only relevant to females in their 20s and 30s. they're not part of voting demography or relevant to any world politics
Erza, I don't understand what debate yall saw last night, but Harris actually did provide substance and policy points...they were not detailed, but you never get those details in debates, they come out on the stump and on the campaign websites...avg. viewers do NOT sit and wait for policy wonk discussions in debates (at least not any more, you can thank Trump for that)...they just want to see who seems more Presidential.
And at the end of the day, NYT and a LOT of journalists are still holding Trump to different (and much lower) standards than all other politician. At least the ABC moderators actually factchecked the most obvious lies in the debate...aside from them and the NABJ interviewers, the rest of yall are doing a lame job (still).
Ezra continues to show his long standing bias against Kamala as a way more important part of his thought pattern than her fitness compared to her current opponent.
@@johannakrishnan5414 Okay, so its not just me, right? I have been wondering about this...WTH, is he sexist or something lol? Or just a Kamala-hater?
@@johannakrishnan5414 Oh, wait, Im sorry...he's not even a degreed journalist, he's a poli-sci grad, who became a blogger who THEN became a "journalist." It all makes sense now
Biden got into the weeds on the details, look how that worked out for him. ezra knows how it worked out for Biden. He ain't running anymore.
👍
Oh, good God, Ezra. She spoke for 23 minutes. Most Americans listening were hearing basic policy ideas for the first time. You're wishcasting for a granular dissertation on policies in a debate whose real goal was to undermine the idea that Trump is qualified to be president. To get rid of him. Sarah Longwell's focus groups comprised of undecided swing voters in swing states immediately after the debate responded positively to her, saying she appeared "presidential." Goal achieved. Sometimes too much intellectualizing is boring and exhausting.
Ezra can really be so insufferable. He just wants to find a problem in her. No one is perfect, but she clearly is 1000 times better than him.
Very well stated, my sentiments exactly.
Thanks for saving me the trouble of wasting my time listening to this. The NYT always disappoints lately. I'm so over the sanewashing and both-sidesism of so-called 'journalists' like this.
Well said! Wishing the American people the best from Philippines! :)
@@lisabluecurls Agreed. The best way to speak for many people without alienating some people is by speaking with normal language which happens in the kitchen because not everybody is as intellectual as the NYT journalists. Candidate needs effective and efficient messaging that people from different social classes can easily digest. This is why I am critical of Democrats who sometimes classify themselves as scholars and smart people. However, It can indirectly harm the base because not all people with some capacity for critical thinking will understand what nerds are saying. And Harris is as simple as it is to lay out her policies for people to understand. If people ask for details, Harris will probably answer voters in open forum like Town Hall environment.
I think Ezra Klein is showing his unconscious bias in holding women to an incredibly higher standard than a man in a similar position. For example, he says he does not see her passion on key issues other than abortion. I don’t think she needs to be passionate about every issue that her party supports. One can commit to go down a certain path without having to be passionate about it, because one sees the rightness of it.
Harris has declared more about her policy positions in the short time she has been running for office than Trump has in the past eight years, but somehow she is the one coming up short?
She is the only politician that has been able to put Trump in his place in the last 10 years, and somehow she didn't do enough. Would love to see Ezra debate trump in 1 hour and see if tou can do better.
@@QuyenNguyen-s2k Ditto the June Biden/Trump debate. You go in there, debate a man bereft of the ability to tell the truth, and try to slay him.
Point 2 (June debate): Media, punditockcrisy (help) swooped in on Biden, completely ignoring how abysmally T debated. They were both bad, differently.
Absolutely
@@Pangea100 I think you are right about unconscious bias/uneven criteria against women being behind the part where he is like, "I dont sense as much authenticity" in X issue via my vibe check rating her passion. I didnt think of this until you pointed it out but I seriously doubt we'll ever hear someone having a serious discussion about whether a male politician is genuinely authentically as passionate about every policy in their platform. It is a little weird. I suppose he does point to Bernie Sanders as an example of someone whose entire policy platform comes across as quite personal to him, but almost no politicians are like Bernie in that regard.
@@monicalarose7980 Even considering Bernie, he is passionate about income inequality. Is he just as passionate about the Israel-Hamas conflict? Or about gun control? I am sure he will talk about these issues with conviction, but passion? So why does Kamala have to be all things to all people before you can vote for her? The bar for women is set impossibly high; I give heartfelt kudos to the women who are doing their damnedest to overcome these biases.
If she wasn’t debating Trump she wouldn’t have been using those types of prefab debate lines. If she were debating someone with a normal ability to focus and presence of mind, her strategy would have been totally different and I wish we could have seen that. It would have been a good debate instead of a massacre.
Exactly right. This hand wringing and hair-splitting about what is a debating ideal, fails to take into account that Trump is a self-described would-be dictator who clearly told people they need not ever worry about voting into the future if they just elect him this time. What's clearly at stake is democracy itself.
It is fundamentally deficient as an analysis because of this, and that Trump made multiple unchecked lies, this sails past through these lofty analyses.
Harris is 'dragging around two primary inconsistencies' he wants a level of sophistication in the 'debate' which actually is not a debate.
Could these types actually deal with these realities and give them appropriate weight? It seems not.
She isn't just 'lucky' that Trump fails to define her. The backing of most of the mainstream media for Trump because he has promised tax breaks for the rich, and giving a free ride on his cognitive issues, his bullying and lying doesn't also rate in his context.
No wonder people are suspicious of 'elites' when we get this level of pseudo analysis. Oh wait, he includes this in passing at the end, but it's not central to his analysis it's an afterthought. The moderators let Trump bully and talk over them, they continually gave him the mike when he interrupted. Fact checking was minimal because his MO is to rain lies with such mass and velocity it's overwhelming. These analysts love the sound of their own voices the most. Overall a B minus for this analysis.
I'd like to agree but Harris has some anxiety issues so I think she would probably prepare as many lines as possible no matter who she was debating. I remember her "That little girl ... was me" one she used on Biden in 2020, while a pretty awesome bombshell, did sound quite rehearsed.
That said, I think she has come a million miles since then, as far sounding WAY LESS FAKE overall. That was literally my biggest beef with her back then. Her cadence sounded like she was reciting an Angelou poem badly, OMG all the pregnant pauses. Now she sounds like a whole other person, very conversational.
welp, if god wills, you'll get it in 2028
@@audreymuzingo933 I think it comes with the territory. Once you become VP even if you don't make it to presidency you become kind of unfazed. You reached a very high office. I think that has help build her confidence. That and her supporters.
I totally agree with that. She rarely goes off the script anytime she speaks
Ezra, why so critical on Harris and not Trump? I feel we have such a low bar for Trump and such a high bar for Harris, that it's just normalized. It feels off. I would appreciate a more balanced analysis.
Ezra framed the podcast, beginning and end, emphasizing Trump's complete unfitness for the job, his narcissism and ability to be manipulated. He is clear on the fact that she unquestionably won the debate. He noted that she took a risk in baiting him somewhat out of nowhere, in a way that couldve backfired if she'd been wrong about how easy he is to manipulate. In the discussion of her policies and times when she evades direct answers to questions Ezra was just willing to say out loud the aspects of her performance and policy positions that were fuzzy and explain what a more direct answer could have been, nagging feelings I had while watching but couldnt quite articulate due to my lack of expertise in the policies. I found it helpful and was grateful to find a credible source interacting with the questions I had after the debate, though I know it's hard to have this kind of discussion about slight imperfections in her performance without it coming across as providing ammunition to the side with the obviously unfit candidate. I thought it was evenhanded - Ezra explains Harris' sometimes fuzzy policy answers for us while recognizing she's had almost no time to create a robust platform of her own and that she may have done the most strategic thing she couldve done in her situation - highlighting who the alternative is and making him look weak and crazy (which he is).
@monicalarose7980 Anyone can play Monday morning QB. We all know the answers after an exam especially a presentation. He keeps setting a higher bar for Kamala. No one is as perfect as Ezra or knows it all.
Well said, she's expected to answer all policy questions with granular detail while he get's asked how he'd lower childcare costs and starts ranting about a guy he fired years ago. How about we set a standard where she only needs to give a more substantive answer than him.
I disagree - ezra is making true points, not just lazily picking low hanging popular fruit. the fact that she didn't answer important questions honestly demonstrates a lack of character - but we have to give her slack because it's very likely that the pressing issue of demonstrating how triumph can actually be manipulated was the real priority. as ezra said, we need to give her more time and I would add that she won't be able to firm up the direction she will actually go with her policies until after the inauguration and she has had immersive exposure in the real atmosphere of the presidency and knowledge of what she can and cannot do, with foreign powers, and domestically, with congress :)
@@sandrastewart7544 I mean, 100 percent on the Monday morning QB point. She did an amazing job under a lot of pressure, did what she needed to do, and I'm incredibly grateful for that. I certainly could never have done what she did. It's the first time Trump was soundly defeated in a debate, and called to task for what he did to women in the chaotic reversal of Roe, and that is all huge. I felt Ezra acknowledged this and was nerding out here on the fine points of policy where she was a bit fuzzy and evasive. Listening to the debate, I noticed immediately when she did not answer questions and even as someone 100 percent committed to voting for her that was a bit disappointing, so I think it is worth discussing how some undecided voters might react to that kind of thing. But we are talking a couple questions in the whole performance and I understand why a direct answer wouldve been almost impossible without damaging herself. I cant think of any debate Ive watched where there werent a few answers on each side where the candidate was a bit evasive because they had little choice. Maybe Klein couldve acknowledged this more - I dislike it, but this is the way politics is played now, and as much as people say we want candidates to just admit it where they were wrong and have grown, it almost never goes well to admit being wrong/mistakes publicly. Klein did say (per Biden) we dont compare to the Almighty but to the other candidate. While I found the policy context surrounding the vaguer answers helpful, I understand how others would feel it comes across as being harder on her.
He said he'd have a Health Plan in 2 weeks in 2016. He said he would do a tax cut for the middle class after his midterm elections. He didn't abide by this promisse.
Yes & it was shocking the question wasn't framed that way. Well, not shocking, they, the moderators, work for the Billionaires, but very disappointing. So many voters need spoon feeding. It's all so depressing.
What American politician does. Ezra makes a good point in the latter part of his podcast here that the Dems having booted Bernie Sanders out of the candidacy pretended they were going to take up his agenda, and they had no intention of it. They are all liars - and we don't punish them for being liars because we're too damn busy being confused or arguing amongst ourselves.
8 years later, he has a "concept of a plan"😅
I mean, we can't be too hard on him, he said that we wouldn't have a taco truck on every corner if he was in office, and he was right.
@@reywatts3030lol extremely low expectations from someone who should be an economist at heart, but is a racist bigot. He only cares about himself and we all are sick of him. He needs to do a Biden and let all of this go. It’s more beneficial to just go back to his businesses and live out the rest of his miserable existence.
Kamala's brilliant check-mate move came right from the get-go, when she walked straight up to him & introduced herself. Power & control, gone. He was so done from then on
Boss Move!! I loved every minute of it
Yes and the way t slinked into the room like he was afraid. And we all saw how afraid he was. He’s a coward.
Shakespearean. She exploited his pride and that was so apparent throughout.
There was even a Tempest reference
Pride is associated with one's accomplishments. Trump has delusions of grandeur, not pride.
Trump is a malignant narcissist. That means he is an extreme narcissist as well as an extreme sociopath. This explains his behavior perfectly. He cannot admit he could or did lose. He cannot admit anyone might be better than himself, might draw larger crowds. He feels zero empathy and zero remorse. Start telling it like it is.
She played him masterfully.
I just hope people will finally understand that if Harris get into his head and manipulate him that easily, everyone else can too.
She is the only person outside of Biden to be able to put him where he belongs. Not Cruz, not Rubio, not even Christie. She did it. She is smarter than the others and did not answer all questions, but are voters obsessed with the questions you put out there? No. She can handle the nuances of politics. Thank God at least someone can now that Pelosi, the political artist, is stepping down. The border is small potatoes to our other issues.
That's an apt way to describe it, that she can handle the nuance of politics.
I don't think a Rubio, Cruz or Christie could defeat Trump because no one embodies the Republicans better than Trump. An internal adversary could never defeat Trump, it has to come from outside the party.
@@harpsmith8570. Only the Democrats defeat tRump !
"I come from a middle-class ln'dian family!"
💙🙋👏🙌👈👉
"We Know What's Best for Your Kids!"
Yes ma'am. 🇺🇸
We need to vote ladies - like we have never voted before. Get your friends registered and make sure they vote. Our very freedom in this country is on the line like at no other time before. I have been waiting for a female president for so long (am in my late 60's). Please let us feel WORTHY of electing a female president. We deserve it. We can do this! Now is the time.
She cannot give Trump credit on anything, because that would be on his next attack ad against her for “acknowledging” he did something right about China. It’s political tactics. So what you would want her to say that about him is stupid strategically.
You are exactly right!
I thought maybe too.
100% agree and wrote a similar comment.
The NYT also has a theory of the case, to cling to their expectations that Democrats be perfect everywhere and all the time.
The old saying about not letting perfection be the enemy of the good comes to mind.
She has clearly said she knows these guys and she proved it. No quarter given.
She knows the type - criminals, liars and frauids. Trump is exposed.
I agree with you to a degree, but I think she did pretty good at both showing herself and her policies and triggering Trump to show his ass.
No. She did not answer all of the questions she was asked , but then neither did he. I do believe that he is held to a lower standard than others. He is given soft ball questions. She was not.
Truly, I don’t believe that there is any question. She did better.
Ezra, you and all other men expect perfection from women. This was the best debate performance ever.
A woman must always do double the work of a men to be considered competent in this patriarchal world. 😢
Exactly
You call them "canned answers." I call them prepared responses. She's not talking to Ezra Klien. She's
talking to Voters.
@@DJS11811 _La Cuerpa Vasija Vaciar._
Harris-Walz 2024 💙🙋👏🙌👈👉
"We Know What's Best For Your Kids!"
Why would she talk to Ezra Klein?
What an arrogant and elitist comment. An illustrative comment that the anti-Democratic Faction of the Uniparty will continue to lose members from the peace seekers, the economic left, the Arab and Islamic communities, the black community, and others. The DNC has just become a cult for the genocidal white supremacist social system supporting bourgeois status quo. Liberals hate democracy. And by the way the people know exactly how the oligarchic Uniparty factions are screwing them over.
#abandonDNC #abandonharris #jillstein #greenparty
It is even more that that. She is clearly very intelligent and quick-minded...and actually thoughtful and empathetic. Mr. Klein is very disingenuous in this piece.
@@DJS11811 #99&6 Two years ago KamaIa was 'talking to voters' too. "No )ab No )ob No )ab No $chool. *Vehr ahh yur pahsports!?"* _You let her get away with mvrdér!_
I’m not sure why Kamala has to direct any credit to trump, don’t think you’d offer such a statement that he should do the same for her.
Great reminder why I no longer subscribe to the NYT. First and only time I will listen to Ezra.
Mr Klein's expanding curriculum on sophomore political science is evolving into the theatrical. Americans are faced with the simple choice of voting to preserve the nation's democracy and not undergraduate lectures on political science.
The NYT has sanewashed Trump’s behavior for the last 8 years
I mean I am from canada so I cant vote here. Harris was always gonna be my vote if I could. BUT she went from milk toast politician in my mind to some one with cunning and strategy and masterful execution of that strategy. And she gained my respect for that. Not just cause she moped the floor with trump. And the cathartic satisfaction of it. But because that takes brains and simply competence under pressure and finesse. She would be an excellent person in oval office. Its hard to find people, let alone politicians, apply that sharpness to any problem.
Sorry, but you're wrong about not being able to vote. According to the GOP, and they've said this thousands of times, you can not only vote, but can vote several times. An added bonus is that the GOP will never be able to prove you broke the law.🤣
I also think she has devotion: great love for our country and that that's how she withstood the temptations to get sidetracked.
🇺🇸
@@SPAMMAN123456789 You're about to vote a Canadian Carbon Tax, destroy your economy, then flee to US as a 'climate refugee' on Harris Equity Reparations welfare. We know what your game is.
@RebekahCurielAlessi I mean I do not envie America's 2 party only system. But like this is one situstion where compared to the alternative doesn't properly capture just how bad trump is.
In the event that Drumpf wins my wife and I are headed your way...
At this point I don't think that's gonna happen, but a lot can happen in a month and a half.
At this point I literally believe more in Bigfoot than I do in "undecided voters." -Oh I believe there are people who SAY they're undecided, because it automatically makes them fascinating creatures, and then they get to pretend they are such deep thinkers who value the sacredness and power of voting so much that they want to be "fully informed" on the choices before they make one. -If that were true, then HOW could they not already know enough about Harris today, yesterday, or even a month ago, to decide whether she's a better choice than Trump or not? It has been a quarter century since you could honestly claim helpless inability to know ANYTHING you consider worth knowing, until its' spoon-fed to you via Walter Cronkite or whatever.
Here's what I would ask them: What the hell are you binging on Netflix SO hard that you can't navigate away for even 15 minutes a day, to learn whatever you want to know about her and her policies?
But honestly I wouldn't even give them the spotlight to ask them anything at all. -They already know who they're going to vote for. And any who truly don't know are such lazy Moe Rons they probably won't even show up to vote at all, so its' especially galling that they should get so much attention beforehand.
FACTS 💯
No lies detected
It's absurd, they're supposedly all too busy picking up their kids from daycare and getting groceries for dinner. 😮
@@cepamor Yeah and that's exactly the kind of martyr/hero narrative they couldn't wait to portray when they said they were undecided. But it's usually longer, with cliches like "asleep before I hit the bed" etc. 😆
@@cepamor Also that bullsh excuse throws everybody else who is run ragged every day under the bus. The implication is that anyone who knows who they're voting for despite being extremely busy must be basing their choice on shallow criteria, not the policy fine details that a true wonk would need to know, cuz that's what "undecideds" are, you see, real political animals who just WISH they had the time!
Oy.
Not undecided. Apathetic. And therefore, way more terrifying. Emo response to constant npr-toned dems 🥱 and false reps 🤦♂️. Exhaustion follows apathy, a known result of phone usage, i mean, jc, u never know when your childs school is gonna call n tell u your child got shot at frkn SCHOOL. (EVERY day of the week. Ppl are like, what can I actually control, rn!?
Dems need to canvass hard like now cuz I live in WI and these folks need to stop eating cheese and frozen custard long enough to drive, walk, bus, crawl to the polls.
Whoever works hardest the most volunteers will get out the most votes!
Ezra, this was a political event and Harris succeeded where and when she needed to with Trump.
Yep, he has next to no idea about the underlying realities and the worst thing is how he trivialises the most important issue: Trump wants to kill democracy and his aims are in Project 2025. WTF the latter doesn't even rate a mention? He wants Harris to kill herself on stage by being a policy wonk, and being overly solicitous of the absolute truth and being perfection? He needs to be real! Hilary 'died' politically under that misguided ambition!
Not. Making. The. Same. Mistakes as in 2016. Not. Going. Back.
His analysis was very much correct to me. What did you disagree with him on?
@@swiftflight7927 I think the Klein theory of the case (for a Harris win) is wrong here: it seems to me that the tiny slice of the electorate that Harris *can* win, would have been paying more attention to Trump’s insanity than Harris’s answers *because* they’re not political obsessives with their attentions already tuned for how the weaknesses will be addressed on both sides. I’d argue that - in a context of an insanely compressed timeline - to gain them, Harris’s job here was twofold: *(1) survive* and *(2) delay* , so that she could take the opportunity to tackle these harder questions on a more favorable stage for her, where her lack of light-footedness would be better concealed from that slice of voter. And I think she aced that exam. (Of course, my entire theory is proven wrong if she doesn’t now come out and tackle these questions elsewhere, so praying for sixes! 😅)
@@swiftflight7927 I think Klein forgot - as many of us do - that the median voter has not been watching Donald Trump’s rallies. I’d guess those of us listening to Klein have become largely inured to the shockingness of Trump’s behavior. I’d make more out of the lack of time Harris has had and give her the grace of recognizing that she’s trying to do everything, everywhere, all at once. My argument for how to define a Harris debate win: she gets out of the debate unscathed and gets the opportunity to tackle the harder questions in a more favorable venue. And I think using Trump’s insanity wasn’t the campaign’s theory of the case for an overall win but their tactical case for how to make it through this specific battle - and they did that masterfully.
I prefer the stance taken by the hosts of Pod Save America in terms of the Harris campaign’s timing of setting out policies etc. Also, on China, Harris would be perfectly entitled to say that Trump was weak. Keeping his tariffs in place? There were not enough! By the way, getting tough on China was Washington consensus at the time that Trump could not go against, no matter how much he liked to suck up to Xi (which he did a lot of). So, no, Klein is wrong that she needed to have acknowledged anything that could be credited to Trump.
I personally disagree with the analysis.
I think she clearly answered many questions that BIDEN simply back pedaled.
For example,
immigration= she explained why the border got so chaotic , because republicans listened to Trump to block anything and everything coming from the Biden admin.
Israel/Gaza= Biden has not made it clear about a direct intervention for a ceasefire. Harris said there HAS to be a ceasefire AND a 2 state government.
She seemed much more on point with these issues compared to Biden’s vague stance
Man the media really dropped the ball on that border bill. It was the exact thing everyone is talking about now but lots of people never heard about it til now
I know you're all complaining that Kamala Harris was short on policy. But I think we learned from Hillary Clinton's campaign. She was a policy guru, and how did that work out for her? I know what the Democrats stand for. The American people.
Yes. When you’re up against Trump, trying to compete using logic/reasoning/policy details is never going to work. You have to deliver the roundhouse kick to the nads and work on making education reforms for future generations so other presidential candidates won’t have to deal with such a dangerous and asinine opponent again.
Trump refuses to answer if he will veto a national abortion ban
Apart from that, he lied and tried to bully his way through the 'debate'.
Of course he wants another debate, under FOX!!!
Because he WON’T, and if you don’t understand that at this point, shame on you!
8:50 Putin used to be a KGB agent working with Stasi.
He can manipulate most of us, and we saw how he succeeded with Trump in Helsinki.
Kamala just needs to paint herself as being anti-dictator and she did. That's what's on the ballot this year: democracy and autocracy
Who voted for Kamala in the primary?
Kind of pitiful compared to what this country needs.
@@BobCassidy
What difference does that make? By voting for Biden/Harris implicitly that puts voter support behind Kamala. You are just trying to inject far right disruption into a Democratic conversation ... trying to be a chaos agent.
@@justgivemethetruth the thing is most people never vote in a primary anyways. It's like some people just learned this fact
@@justgivemethetruth you're using buzzwords out of context.
She was not picked democratically. She would never hsve won a primary and now we're being told she's the best the dems have.
I think if you don’t feel like you know what Kamala Harris is about as president… Ezra Klein you’re not listening.
Absolutely. She has a ton of policies. Consumer protection from monopolies, is just one.
Which is a shame considering his career and supposed expertise and, you know, raison d'etre.
Ezra is not a serious journalist. For serious journalists you really need to look at sources outside the USA.
He’s always been critical of her. Easy to be critical. More difficult to really look into something. Ezra Klein is at the very least a total jerk.
Absolutely!
Ezra, you are at your best sitting in a quiet room with your personal mic and with friendly, rehearsed questions. Your ideas of conceding policy points to trump in a first debate would result in an L from at least 40m of the 60m that tuned into the debate.
Indeed, conceding policy points to a convicted felon and anti-democratic authoritarian is a bizarre political view. Pointing out that nothing he has done has any ultimate value in light of this, makes political sense.
I feel we need a more equal analysis when it comes to judging women politicians. Women in general need to climb more stairs in orderto break the glass ceiling. She did great,as far as I'm concerned.
IMHO VP Harris addresses the immigration issue in a more subtle way than Ezra acknowledged. She does it thru her personal life story as well as when she pointed out that Trump prefers to run on the immigrant issues rather than solving it.
I agree. Ezra is a white male. He is not going to pick up on thay
This is sooo biased against Harris. She had a job to do and she did it !! He said he hadn't even spoken to JD about the abortion issue ( lies again) also that VP didn't matter ( when applied to Vance) but want to hold Kamala's feet to the fire??? Give her her dues. She smashed expectation across the board.
Success belongs to those who do their homework. And what else did we expect? A seasoned prosecutor versus a convicted felon and fraudster = a predetermined outcome.
Wordsmith Reporters expect politicians to explain Title 42 vs Title 8 and it's effect on immigration control, yet never figure out how to explain it themselves.
Right. Had we not had a pandemic, it’s doubtful Trump could have enacted Title 42. Many of the Trump sanctions drove the influx of immigration to begin with.
26:30 this is the most naive thing I have ever heard a professional commentator make. Trump would never allow Harris to finish this statement. Honestly, ridiculous. And Trump was brought to that position by mostly neo cons in his cabinet before he pushed them all out
Yeah, it sounds like an episode of The West Wing or sth. It's like "can't we just all get along" baby brain politics level analysis.
EZRA- KAMALA IS NOT PERFECT- BUT MORE DIRECT AND HONEST THAN TRUMP- HER FRACKING STANCE IS PERFORMATIVE- TACKING TO CENTER IS SAILING 101 AND POLITICS- HARRIS ON TARIFFS WAS NOT CLEAR-BUT NOT WRONG- YOUR CRITICISM ON HARRIS IS HARSHER THAN TOWARDS TRUMP
My thought is they use questions like the one on tariffs to bait people along party lines to see where a candidate might differ with the sitting president’s economic policy. Stuff like that makes great headlines when candidates fall for it. She was smart to sidestep it.
The bar is always so low for Trump. I wonder if it feels like punching down?
Please don’t forget, Ezra Klein, that it is democracy on the ballot.
Mr. Klein, yes VP Harris needs to more clearly map out her views on fracking, immigration, etc. You seem to be saying she should have used this debate forum to do so? How much could she do during her turns at bat over the course of 90”? I believe she had the floor for less than 40” altogether. Also, I believe she’s been the candidate for fewer than 60 days. Perhaps she will now do a few policy speeches. In my view, she’s been developing and methodically hitting each mark in a systematic measured way. You really seemed to criticize her a bit unfairly in this podcast given her particular constraints.
What does one need to know to stop saying, "I don't know who Kamala Harris is?" I keep hearing this, and I keep wondering what do people want to know? Do your research, stop getting stuck in this " I don't know enough about her" loop. Part of me wonders if this is simply journalist speak. Again, do your research, and you'll get to know who she is. It's really no big secret, it really isn't. 🤷🏽♀️
I would like to know this too.
I would argue that Kamala Harris has generally avoided being in the media. She has done very few public interviews since Biden withdrew his campaign. I am going to vote for her (because anyone who doesn't want turn the USA into a dictatorship is better than Trump), but I wish that she actively engaged with the media and provided more versions of her policy from different interviews. Dana Bash. the only person who has had a long-form interview with Kamala, has a certain set of interests and priorities and I would want to see others who may be less friendly, more focused on specific issues, or may have a different personal history extracting new information from Kamala.
@@oremfrien Why should she give the MSM the time of day when they actively trashed her for three years, and didn't actually do their own damn jobs in covering the things she was doing during that time? That included Klein, BTW.
Klein is annoyed that his trashing of Harris during that time looks so wrong now, so he's trying to save face.
@@BigSleepyOx Quite simply, it doesn’t matter whether she likes or dislikes the MSM or whether they have treated her well or poorly in the past but about voter engagement. We live in a country where the voters deserve to understand their candidates’ stances clearly. Given that Kamala has appeared to moderate some of her 2020 positions, we need present-time conversations to describe her positions more clearly.
@@oremfrien That's a poor excuse for lazy and unmotivated voters to sit on. IF they are so inquisitive and concerned, why have they not visited Kamala's website? Facebook and IG pages? Governmentals documentation of what she has been doing as VP? Why ot visit Trumps sites to see what is there instead of listening to his rhetoric? It's all there and easy to find. These swing voters who haven't decided yet - this late in the game - are just indecisive people in general who hate making decisions and will avoid committing to anything until the last minute, because they are afraid to be wrong. These are personality traits. Yet what they lack in knowledge is a consequence of their own reluctance to get more involved in daily politics from a variety of sources, and to discern the information and eke out the truth from all the facts. It's nobody else's fault. These are the kind of people who are avoidant, like to overthink everything, even when the future of the whole country, and even the world is at stake. I see no point in making excuses for them. We're all busy, but not for this many years in a row. That excuse just falls flat. Kamala will move onward and begin to take the time to do more interviews. She got in extremely late and has had to play catch up, all while being held to the ridiculous double standards that all women are held to.
Ezra, you hold against the woman in a competitive debate that she didn't "merit the man", what you see his wins were. Wow. Why would you not ask that of Trump?
Ezra is the perfect example of inside the beltway punditry. Harris is running a very moderate campaign not because she has lurched far, far to the right but because the modern GOP is so extreme they have ceded any ground they used to have on moderating their positions. The people in her camp know that immigrants aren't bad and legal immigration is a net positive, her position is to appeal to independent conservatives that can't stand Trump but they've bought into the fear the immigrant screed to the point that 60%+ of Americans now think illegal immigration is a big problem. Trying to both sides her campaign stance is ridiculous.
The fact that Kamala is expected to run to such a high bar while Trump gets to remain the crazy old man at the town square is insane
I disagree that Kamala could have given a nuanced explanation about why they kept some of the tariffs. The “average” voter would have heard “blah blah blah tariffs. Blah blah blah Trump was right blah blah blah”. It would have been a disastrous answer for Kamala to give, one that undermined the story she was trying to tell about her opponent.
God, listening to this guy reminds me, yet again, of why I don’t listen to him and don’t read the NYT.
🙄 Pretty grim, innit?!
I was extremely impressed with KAMALA HARRIS, and I will joyfully be voting for her in November. 💙
She ambushed him with his own narcissism. The kind of ambush where you step out of the shadows, hand your victim a loaded gun, and they willingly shoot themselves.
This is an excellent assessment & I ♡ it!
She studied how to confront a narcissist
28:40 I disagree completely. Do not admit your contender did anything good. Elections are driven by emotion, not logic, decency, or policy.
Liberals pundits clutch their pearls at that notion. Appearance is more important to them than manipulating us into voting for them.
Yeah, I mean it really makes me reevaluate the rest of the analysis here. This is such an insane thing to say. It's like trying to throw an election on purpose. Especially running against Trump of all people.
I disagree that Harris has stumbled in not defining herself.
I could be proven wrong (we'll see in the next few weeks), but I think running as the "generic Democrat" for as long as possible is a deliberate and intelligent strategy. She still has time to introduce more hard-core policies and define herself. But the longer she can get away without doing that, the better for her. As it is now, everybody who dislikes Trump can read into Harris whatever they want. She can be a bit of a political chameleon in that way.
As the buzz from the DNC, and now from the debate fades, she can come out with new policy announcements as a way to keep the buzz alive. The campaign is short enough that she might be able to keep hitting new policy themes, and thus keep the buzz going, right up until the election.
I agree and I think political animals, Klein included, are oddly insistent on underestimating VP Harris.
@@JuanabobanaYup. Even when she has run a near perfect, oustanding campaign and outmatched, outsmarted and outlasted her opponent
Yes it's not about writing an academic paper it's about standing her ground, establishing herself so she can go deeper. This guy acts as if this is some kind of idealised academic world, and gives only passing mention to the overwhelming realities that Trump is a wannabe dictator and that democracy itself is definitely at stake. He trivialises the most important aspects and expects Harris to be the ideal candidate in the ideal world. Facepalm material I'm so frustrated with this lack of urgency and context.
@@arcticgoddess Yes but you have to consider the heavy baked in electoral college advantage for Republicans and voter suppression issues.
What else even needs a policy at this point?
Immigration: secure the border, shore up technicals and reform asylum issues.
Healthcare: increase subsidies and cap drug prices.
Housing: build houses and help new home buyers.
Economy: grocery price caps, expanded child tax credit, small business tax credit, cracking down on monopolies.
Foreign policy: 90's-style American Exceptionalism.
What issues is she not covering that need to be?
Harris didn't just fall out of a coconut 🥥 tree 🌴
Some of Ezra’s ideas about what Kamala might better have said are good, but for this milieu, I think she made the right choices… and soared.
Trump and presence of mind don't belong in the same sentence. Harris was masterful.
Harris is used to winning FOR THE PEOPLE in a room where
- the audience to convince are the jury
- her opponent to defeat is an expensive criminal CA lawyer
- the moderator to abide by is a judge
and all within the grander puzzle of reality that is Criminal Law
Donny on the other hand has only been on the criminal side of that process, every time!
---
Also, don't forget, the police-force are at the prosecutions service.
She was the top police person in CALI (AG) and people keep
on claiming she wants to defund the police. Read before you speak!
Kamala’s outstanding performance at the debate illustrates not only her ability to “bait” Trump, but also her superior intelligence and ability to call him out for his lies and stupidity.
Looking back in time and listening to Biden's speech in 2016 at the Democratic Convention I think he would have beaten Trump by holding the Blue Wall and not having the baggage Hillary carried then.
100%
Highly probable. Clinton was a uniquely poor candidate at a uniquely bad time.
Anyone else in the primary would have beaten Trump. Any other democrat that year would have gotten you two of either: Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and that would have been enough.
Would you vote for Benedict Arnold if you but liked his economic plan? That issue of Trump assuming doctorial power supersedes all other issues combined. You can see from the debate that he's a nut case.
It should supersede all other issues combined, but not according to Klein. There is a reason why Liberal Democracies often give up power to autocrats. It is people in leadership positions on the Left, thinking like Klein, that give tyrants political legitimacy. The fact that he is a dangerous nut case is completely glossed over by Klein and his ilk. They would have Trump elected by respecting democratic principles rather than respecting democratic people. People like him are almost as dangerous as the tyrant's leftist intellectuals ask us to legitimize.
Doctorial power? Like prescribing bleach?
@@stevenwilliamson6236 That's funny. I have to tell you that if I write something in the early early morning, I often fall asleep in midsentence and I have line after line of commas. My spell check suffers in early morning also.
@@matthewtenney2898 It was just supposed to be a joke. Did someone try to shoot him again?
@@stevenwilliamson6236 I took it as a joke.
Have you not been watching and listening to Frump? This isn’t an election about Biden/Border. This is an election about whether there will be an American democracy.
Ezra, I think you are naive to think that she could in any way admit that Trump was right on the China tariff and that she would come out looking good for acknowledging it might have been a good idea. The media would have skewered her, and for that admission alone, she would have been considered to have lost the debate. The right would have used that clip over and over to show Harris and Biden admitted that Trump is better. It would have been a disaster.
I disagree re Harris not answering questions about Joe Biden was not good political strategy. I think it was a BRILLIANT political strategy. Answering them would have put her on the defensive. Debates are all about offense. And Prosecutor Kamala Harris knows all about offense and put her experience into action to devastating effect. Harris will be the next president of the United States of America. Cheering for her and Tim Walz from the Philippines! :)
I also wish Ezra hadn’t just said “we know how tariffs work, of course it gets passed on” because that’s leading people to think Trump’s statements that you charge the tariffs on the foreign nations is correct when it’s very very wrong. Foreign nations don’t pay tariffs, the domestic importers do, and yes that gets passed on to consumers, but other nations don’t ever pay a dime of our tariffs. Wish Harris would have some Trump about that during the debate.
People don't know enough about Harris? To those people I say this: you know *everything* you need to know about the other guy and all those things you know disqualify him from ever holding office again. What else do you need to know? I don't care if people vote *for* Harris, they just need to vote *against* the other guy. Simple as that!
He's pathetically predictable. She played him like a cheap orange fiddle.
When did Ezra become absolutely insufferable. Jeez, I used to think he was thoughtful and very astute. Now he sounds like such an arrogant and obnoxious liberal (I’m a liberal- he’s the kind of of liberal that gives us normal libs a bad rap)
There's been a lot of Dems who are really weird about her and who don't really seem concerned about Trump. I think bc they probably live in strong blue states and apparently don't care about all the other people who will die
Trump isn't "uncomfortable talking about abortion" - he knows it's a huge loser for him, so he intentionally avoids talking about it.
Trump is such a loser…how does he have any support?
Not everyone is looking for someone to hate. To some he just looks like a goofy businessman and TV personality. He clearly isn't a career politician and they find that refreshing.
Racism
She definitely knew his type.
😅😂😅
Ezra demonstrates that while he's a solid policy analyst, he's not the best political analyst. This was not one of his stronger pieces. The wonky Ezra misapplied his strengths here. We appreciate your wonkiness, Ezra, but some of the critiques here miss the mark. A televised political debate, in part, is about presenting yourself as the better choice over your opponent, which this analysis overlooks by going too deep into the weeds of policy. In an ideal world that wouldn't be a bad thing, but in the real world . . . it's not overly helpful for the moment.
Ezra, you should have expected her to be able to manipulate him so easily. It's who he is.
You have to disqualify trump as a priority. Can't have it both ways
This is because Harris isn't actually debating the issues
She is standing against a wave of distrust in government institutions
So instead of trying to say "please trust me" (which bitter people are not going to do) she is easily able to say "you cannot trust that guy."
And while a lot of swing voters will vote harris - even more of them will just stay home and not vote for trump, which gives the incumbant the advantage
Trump spoke 39 times and 5 minutes longer than Harris while Harris spoke 22 times! Thanks moderators for NOT turning off Trump’s mic!!! They weren’t in control but Kamala was and wiped the floor with him in the little time allocated!
Im so sick of these eletes talk about taxing unrealized gains as if its insane.
Most Americans pay tax on unrealized gains every friggin year, PROPERTY taxes are unrealized gained taxes. Time for the eletes do the same.
But the issue is that Trump CANNOT control what he does. A normal person would not do what he does..... CONSTANTLY.
So, she is a polished strategist and adapts to conditions on the ground. Why the gripe, home boy? More is being laid out. The comparisons you make are political archeology. Their applicability to this presidential race is good enough, yet the insistence of her not satisfying your wishes is a tad disingenuous.
Trump didn't change the perception about China - American corporations moved manufacturing to China for cheaper labor and manufacturing decades ago. Take a trip to Walmart and look at where most of the stuff you buy is made.
Kamala treated Don like a criminal.
Which he is
@@ajaynair2636criminal IS as criminal DOES!
Yes, clearly Tuesday night was a big victory for...Joe Manchin. 🙄 Ezra has full pundit brain now.
He's right. And if she wins, she's going to govern like him because of a split Senate, or a Senate where Tester will need to be more moderate to get reelected.
@table_salt Governing is a lot more than getting laws past the Senate. And I get Ezra's point but to say that the guy who had to leave his party because every Democrat hates him is a big winner is perverse. He didn't change the party. Harris just has to make sure that her coalition is wide enough to defeat Trump because of the Electoral College, period.
@@RyanMichero Period!
every administration faces different challenges. there are no one formula or dogma that can address all. Harris is free to chart her own paths and find the balance that the country needs currently.
She could not say he was right on anything because he would have ABSOLUTELY warped & manipulated it entirely.
I’d have brought along a rolled up Forbes magazine for trump and Tim should bring a couch for Vance to sit on. 😊🇺🇸🏴
I really, really enjoyed your analysis. I knew our girl wasn’t perfect, but I think I might be more in awe of her know realizing the strategic tactics she employed to unravel her opponent and come out on top. I almost think Trump, as much as he hates her, has a big crush on Kamala too now!😂
I trust Kamala a million times over Trump! He has shredded the spirit of America.
7:38 that is a masterpiece when it comes to horrible responses you can hear the man fall apart right in front of you
What we witnessed in that debate VP HARRIS vs TRUMP is the fact we saw qualified vs unqualified, it was on display for the whole world to see.
The way Ezra's talking about this election, the way everyone seems to talk about it, pretty much the way we've always talked about presidential candidates during campaigns --- It's is as if we're talking about who we'd prefer as a monarch. How does he or she feel about this or that, where do the really stand...
We seem unable to grasp the reality of our bicameral system, the checks and balances, and the very thing that's stymied so many Presidents - especially Biden - in accomplishing goals that we all hoped for when we vote them in to office.
The oversimplification leads Americans to feel let down then, if not betrayed, because the way things actually work rarely results in all those campaign promises being fulfilled. And that, in turn, becomes fodder for political criticism and, ultimately, deepening cynicism about our government.
We should probably remind voters of that during the campaign. Stop with the fantasy of a president being in charge of the whole government. Our representatives run the government. Presidents are important but they're not monarchs.
This! One person cannot be the expert on all issues and thats why the president has advisors to scrutinize and suggest detailed policy that actually has a chance to get passed.Placing the blame on a single person for any legislation not getting passed in such a system leads to situations like blaming biden for grocery prices.
Fact is if you listen to what Trump says, it is disturbing that he appears to be in deterioration. His family has mentioned dementia.
Will America be so foolish as to elect him again?
Donald Trump has lowered the bar as an elected official to subterranean levels 😒
Being the CHILD of immigrants and telling about the way she grew up speaks volumes of how she
Feels about immigration 🏹🕊️🔱
Why, in a world of declining birthrates are people so against immigrants! This is true both here, and in Europe. Can we never overcome generational amnesia and descend into xenophobia and demagoguery??!!!
They're not against immigrants, they're against non-white ones. That's the real issue. Klein is to scared to say it for some reason.
Dude. we already KNOW what kind of president Trump would be. Why are people still trying to figure this out. We lived through his disastrous and dangerous presidency!
HOW ABOUT JANUARY 6th?
Nobody answers questions they don't like, Ezra. And Kamala Harris absolutely kicked butt in that debate. No quibbling, no "she shoulda", none of the NYT nonsense - she kicked his arse around the block and into the next star system.
I’m voting for her! Trump is a moron and I cannot in good conscience vote for him! Plus she’s smart and loves this country.
Kamala's theory on Trump was based on her clear understanding of psychology and neuroscience.
Trump is a hugely insecure and needy person. The braggadocio and bluster is a front.
Do you not think that the fact that *both* of her parents are immigrants gives you an inkling of what her position is?
Aren't all Americans immigrants?
@derekarnold3665 sure are. People who are 2nd or 3rd gen are aware of that fact- the rest of us not so much.
Such hybrids are way more intelligent than most others. They not only know about America but also the rest of the world through their parents. Also their parents were accomplished too. One would expect her to be too. She is a very rational person and will not do any knee jerk decisions.
Not really. Most legal immigrants are at least a little hostile to illegal immigration, which lines up badly with traditional democratic policies like abolishing ICE or abandoning attempts to deport illegal immigrants, or Harris’s own positions in the 2020 primary. Speaking as an immigrant who will be voting for the first time in November, I don’t know if her policies will be ones preferred by the noisiest democrats or ones which might actually help.