Just to let you know I appreciate your work. I seem to have a lot of difficulty understanding electrickery but I watch over and over and it’s gradually getting absorbed. Glad you’re getting over your Bells - that smile will come back soon so keep +.
Best video on how to wire a Solar system correct...As there is a reason the NEC makes every electrician take this refresher course every year before they renew your lic...
Excellent lesson. Luckily my Multiplus-II takes care of this issue for me. But, I only know that now for watching your tutorial. I’m a long way from learning the full extent of its features. Thank you for your work. All the best to you.
Thank you!!!!!!(King of Kings) I have been serarching for this answear about how to find ,mesure if there is bonding in the system or not. And finally I came accross your video...this is working in normal not off grid homes as well and not just inverters?
I have a question based off your video how many batteries 12 volt for a 3000 watt inverter. Oppus has the Oppus mega 1: which states 1024 watt hours with 2000 watt output. What am I missing?
Please make a video of neutral ground bonding to rcd or rcbo including a home that is using transfer switch. How do I bond my inverter using the existing electrical system in my home. Should I make a small separate distribution panel just for my inverter then I bond it there before it go through my transfer switch
Well done Nick, great subject matter, I'm glad I found your videos... they very helpful. One question, why does your Fluke meter numbers fluctuate in the background while filming when not connected to any AC device?
Glad you like the videos. Have you checked the latest one about a GFCI? The fluke meter is quite sensitive, it's measuring mV because it's in auto range setting.
Wow, that's deep! I haven't seen a video yet on UA-cam explaining in that depth, bonding to Earth. Unless I'm wrong, I didn't hear the host caution about some budget SMPS inverters haing a HOT "neutral" in the socket. AKA a floating neutral. That means measuring the voltage from either legs of the inverters' socket to case will show 1/2 of total supply voltage. Which means that each leg is actually supplying 1/2 of the voltage going to the load. IF you bond the so called "neutral", (the wider blade in the US) to the case or Earth (ground), would the inverter go BOOM? I don't know. What about bonding that same inverter neutral to the NEG terminal of the battery(s) powering it, AND Earthing the battery NEG too! Hmm. Try that with several inverter models and see what happens!
I have an inverter where they swapped L1 with N (live with neutral). Since it's AC it doesn't matter much when powering devices, but when you want to make the ground neutral connection it matters a lot. So that's why you should always measure the voltage like i did in the video. You can make an AC distribution box outside of the solar generator with a neutral ground bond and a GFCI. Just like i did in the video.
You will always see residual voltage between the chassis of these portable inverters and the current carrying terminals. It's the result of capacitive coupling of the 20kHz or so PWM and 50/60Hz AC waveform. Digital multimeters typically have a 10M ohm input impedance meaning they impose almost no load at all and will indicate voltage even if the underlying situation can not even supply 1mA. Determining of you have residual coupled potential or a situation where the chassis of the inverter is directly tied to some component of the AC output can be achieved by placing a moderate resistance between the chassis and the AC output and then measuring with a multimeter. This is a hazardous thing to do so should only be performed by a competent trained person.
@@cleversolarpower Can you explain 'they'? Do you mean: Inverter manufacturer? I just got BougeRV 2000W inverter which I've tested in more ways than you here but multimiter measurements match with what you show. I've also used osciloscope but osciloscope will also show waveforms of so called 'gost voltages' (N to G for example in this kind of inverter when N to G is not bonded). I've found somewhere that someone asked BougeRV if they can bond (connect) N-G terminals and answer was "NO, it will fry inverter". When I've opened inverveter ground wire was not connected anywhere so connecting N to something (green wire) 'in the air' will not do any damage. In BougeRV wire from inverter circuit board marked as L is connected to outlet N terminal and vice versa. In this kind of inverter it does not really matter as this is a 'switching' power inverter (there is no real L and N, both terminals are 'hot'). I want to use battery-inverter to charge my plug-in hybrid and still not sure I can do it safely. If I do not bond N-G, charging cable will report ground fault. When I bond N-G, ground fault is not there anymore as N-G voltage is now zero. But .. since this is a switching power and G from inverter will be conected to car GND (chassis) I am not quite sure this will not do some damage to car electronics. I've seen youtube videos where people do that without problem. In home wiring N and G are on the same potential which is actual ground (earth). With inverters I am not sure. When car is charged from wall outlet chasis is directly connected to ground (earth). With inverter N-G bond is not connected to ground (earth). That is big difference. When it comes to protection when you have GFCI then it will be safe. Maybe I need to add GFCI for car charging from inverter as well to protect car in the first place. I have car wiring diagrams but GND wire (from external plug) is connected to a 'black box' where there is another chassis ground from the 'black box' but not clear if there is something 'between' that servers as protection? People often use term 'cheap chinese inverters' meaning they are just bad. It is not about who makes those. If they are made in other country they will have same 'issue'. Why some other country (US) does not make 'cheap' inverter like this? I would call those inverters 'cheap' because documentation is usually not so good. For example what is said in this video needs to be in manual so people know how to properly ground inverter and not spend hours trying to find youtube video (like this one). We do not know who the people making youtube videos are and (no ofense) can be trusted or not. But inverter manufacturer knows what kind of inverter they make and what end user should do with them. Grounding is very important.
Great tutorial! I have only one question. ON forums an even on victron documentation i read tht i should conect my battery and all voctron dc elements like chargers inverter... to chassis. I dont understand why i should do that and how about to keep 2 dc systems on same chassis in case of 12v or 24v vechicle system and 48 v lesuire system?
Check my video about grounding. Basically you only want to connect to chasin at one place from the grounding busbar. It doesn't mean there is voltage on that, it's a connection at 0V, not 12 or 24.
There is no need, but i like to have them separate. The literature also says to keep them separate even though they are connected through the inverter.
In the U.S. as a rule of thumb, 5 wall outlets can be connected to a 120 volt 15-amp circuit breaker. I believe that each wall outlet should be a GFCI and the same goes for every connection to the house electrical system. Think about what would happen to a computer on the 2nd floor if it is on the same circuit as the toaster in the kitchen that went bad with GFCI only in the breaker box?
That is not normal. I suspect there to be a faulty mc4 connector or a stray voltage from the panels itself. Stop cleaning the panels before more 'favorable' conditions shock you. They need to ground the solar array metal frames. I made a video about grounding, so check it out. The voltage on the metal frames passes through the water from the hose through your body into the ground. If you have wet hands and stand in a puddle, this can become lethal.
Grat vedio, but in-fact we have the electrical tester screw is lights on when we put it on the array cable and also it reads AC VOLT besides if the fuat is caused by the MC4 it will melt by heat we use high DC VOLT FROM the solar panel 350 , Inshort we need to now 1- why screw driver light on while it supposed not as the current and volt is DC type. 2- also we noticed in battries poles screw driver lights on Finally thanks for your great video’s that helps to achieve safe and sound operations. 2
Grat vedio, but in-fact we have the electrical tester screw is lights on when we put it on the array cable and also it reads AC VOLT besides if the fuat is caused by the MC4 it will melt by heat we use high DC VOLT FROM the solar panel 350 , Inshort we need to now 1- why screw driver light on while it supposed not as the current and volt is DC type. 2- also we noticed in battries poles screw driver lights on Finally thanks for your great video’s that helps to achieve safe and sound operations. 2
@@cleversolarpower Thanks for your response what I want to say that the electrical test screwdriver is light when we put it on the negative or positive ports of the PV is that mean ? We practically did this test and get this result.
12V 100Ah battery has 1280Wh of stored energy. A PSU of 550W would not consume 550W. It can deliver it, but doesn't mean that it will consume that amount. Let's say the PC uses 300W (which would be a medium gaming PC). 1280Wh/300W=4.26 hours of runtime.
The problem I have is that I have two grounds, one at the inverter and one at the supply which causes tripping and there is no way I can change it as the iinveter is remote to the main supley and ground which means both have to be grounded and bonded and this is very problematic.
You should only ground at the power generation source which is the inverter. By supply i assume you mean breaker panel? You have to run a grounding conductor back to the inverter, which will be your normal grounding wire.
Hi - I love your channel and concise videos. I am renovating a house (in the UK) to be completely off grid and designing the (modest 2.4kw) solar system from scratch, using Victron components. I have a multiplus II inverter/charger to run a backup generator when there isn't enough solar. I am confused about how to earth/ground the system. My AC loads all go through the latest RCBO, surge protected consumer unit. Is this adequate to serve as a GFCI? Also, do I have to program anything in the multiplus II so that the earth is OK for both the inverter and the charger?
The multiplus has an integrated ground relay, so no need to add the ground neutral bond. If the generator is wired to AC-in, the ground relay will open, because now the generator has the ground-neutral bond, because it acts as the grid. Checkout my video about grounding. 2.4kw is quite low for a home in the UK, you must not consume a lot.
@@cleversolarpower thanks very much for your reply. Yes - I know 2.4kw isn't much. I'm starting off putting 6 x 410w panels on my kitchen roof and garden sheds until I can afford to put panels on the house roof.
One query. What if the inverter is center tapped.? If you ground Neutral a center tapped Inverter, you are going to get 170v between any battery terminal and the body of any Class 1 device plugged in, IE a metal body Kettle.!
The center tap is the neutral (USA). line 1 and two are marked with L1 and L2. So there should be no confusion between line and neutral. The center tap (neutral) is grounded, this is the ground neutral bond at the transformer. L1-L2=240V L1-N=120V, and L2-N=120V.
@@cleversolarpower No no. I am talking about an Inverter center tap. the inverter produces a Positive top and a Neutral bottom of the wave form, the center being the zero volts. If you use any side as a Neutral bond, you get around 170 volts between a battery terminal and the body (Earth) of a class one device such as an Iron or a Kettle. So you can't Neutral bond a center tapped invertor as it is dangerous.
@@G1ZQCArtwork Never came across a center tapped inverter. However, i think this should be stated in the manual. The manual will say to not bond the neutral to ground. To be sure if you have a center tapped inverter, i think it's best to measure the output before the bond and see if it's similar to my case in the video.
@@cleversolarpower I have a Streetwize (R) pure Sinewave 3kw Inverter, it states in the manual not to be used with class 1 devices, as you cannot provide an RCD earth path due to it being Center tapped.
Good question. If the generator has a ground-neutral bond inside (measure it), it acts as the grid. The grid has a neutral to ground bond at the source (transformer). So you would handle it the same as being grid connected. So, disconnect the ground neutral bond at the inverter. With smaller generators, it's possible that there is no ground-neutral bond. In that case, you have to create it yourself or leave it as an isolated system.
Question, i want to use portable petrol generator to direct charge a lifepo4 12.8v. This battery is fixed in my 4x4. Do i need to ground the genny? Cheers
@@Fatfreddy7 You have to consider every power source; a nuclear power plant with an alternator, a transformer, and inverter or generator as a power source. Every power source needs a neutral to ground bond. A system can only have one neutral to ground bond. So you will have to disconnect the earth to ground bond in your inverter when you connect the generator to the system. Take a look at the document 'wiring unlimited' by victron for more information on how to ground a generator.
I have an off grid system and am wondering about earth conductivity. The earth here is into rock and is very high resistance. I have the house distribution board and earth to the house which is a reinforced concrete and all the reinforcements are bonded and external earth. I also have the inverter separate to the house by 60 meters and again is a very poor earth conduction. I have no earth to neutral connection as yet as I am not sure which way is best, the inverter end or at the house.
If you have a N/E and electrode at your inverter you need to consider voltage drop across the neutral under full load as that will pull your your neutral away from earth at the house. Apply ohm's law. This would be considered a TN-S earthing system. With 60 metres of separation you could actually implement a TT system. Earth neutral at the inverter, no separate earth wire to the premises, earth the premises PE wiring. That could be a separate electrode or using the reo in the foundations etc. If you are implementing TT consider fitting a master RCD on the wiring to the house, at the inverter end. This will protect you against earth faults in the wiring to the house. In reality the impedance of the earth electrode really doesn't matter too much with independent systems such as you are implementing. Fit RCD/GFCI to all final circuits which is more or less the law in many countries now for a fixed supply and pretty much even a poor electrode will give sufficient earth fault current (this is referring to a fault that passes current to mother earth separately to the premises PE wiring) to trip the device, and if it doesn't then you can't be harmed anyway. An important thing to consider in these types of setups though is step potential. In a fault condition you don't want harmful potential gradient around the electrode at the surface where you can walk. Ensure what ever you do penetrates sufficiently deep into the ground. Use an impedance meter if you can borrow one. Ultimately what you implement should be compliant with your country's / region's electrical standards. Since you don't say where you are, a wise thing, only general advice can be given. Finally don't bodge a portable inverter into your fixed wiring. Use an inverter intended for the purpose.
You should measure the voltage at the output terminals like i did. That way you can tell which is the live and neutral. Once i had an inverter switch them inside. The highest voltage is the live.
If the inverter is correctly configured with 'European' use in mind, there is no difference. None of these things supply 2 or 3 phase power so what becomes the 'neutral' conductor is up to you. Convention says that if there is a socket on the thing the wire attached to the pin that normally carries neutral is .... neutral, and likewise with a terminal block. Be aware that some inverter manufacturer (hello Reliable Electric) have been known to just slap a label on their 'split phase' USA designs and tell you to not connect the 'neutral' or leave that terminal unlabelled. Honestly manufacturer's that do that should be ... well can guess what should be done to them. For USA situations where the inverter has 'split phase' output, then there is a neutral and you can determine it by measuring relative to all 3 conductors.
@@cleversolarpower Right, but when you measured them before bonding, you had 93V L-G and 92V N-G. Does the 93V being larger than the 92V suggest it is the Line, or, like @retrozmachine1189 suggests, it doesn't matter *electrically* which terminal you bond to ground?
@@matt0x000C If you have a single phase inverter and it is correctly isolated it really doesn't matter. You must still determine that the inverter is correctly isolated before doing this of course. Personally I've never seen a portable inverter with a switch in the live wire coming out of it as @cleversolarpower says he has, but it's a big world so if you do have one such as this the switch makes that particular wire 'live' and the other 'neutral' since you should not switch just the neutral, similar to my socket example. If the inverter has sockets and a terminal strip the wire on the terminal strip that is connected to the socket 'neutral' pin should also be considered to be 'neutral'. You must still determine that the inverter is correctly isolated before doing this of course.
A few comments. In an off grid system, example small cabin, you need an earth reference point, usually earth rods. Renogy pass through inverters, strongly advertised in Europe and a popular choice for RV use, do not have the automatic bonding in stand alone mode. In a vehicle there must be a reference 'ground', the metal body/ chassis/frame. This is the protective ground of the system. Please continue to stress the importance of the need for the neutral to PE bond and the need for RCD or GFCI protection. There are so many 'van life' videos, some by 'professional converters' than show unsafe instalations. USA domestic power systems sypply is split phase, 120- neutral-120 and some inverters designed for that market produce this output.
Indeed, for stationary systems an earth rod should be used. I'm not familiar with renogy inverters as i haven't used them yet. Yes, i will include the use of GFCI in my future videos.
I have been scratching my head about this too, so I have just bought your book to try to get my head around this. I have bought a Renogy high frequency 2000w inverter with a built in automatic transfer function between shore power and inverter power. I planned to install this between the shore power consumer unit and the existing sockets to provide an automatic change over. I was then planning to install an RCBO/GFCI between the inverter and sockets. Would I be right to assume that if I earth bond the neural of the inverter output to allow the GFCI to work, I will cause ground loop problems? Would a better solution be to ignore the auto transfer function of the inverter and use something like a 230V ac Coil Non-Latching Relay DPDT, 16A Switching Current 2 Pole relay before the inverter and keep the two systems isolated from each other to avoid ground loop problems?
I am an electrician. I have installed 10kv hybrid a few days back. Everything I have done is fine but when I turn it on the out cable explodes! I don't know why! Please help
The real answer is these types of portable battery inverters (the power queen depicted) are intended for I class operation. That's it. There is no earthing system or at best IT. There is no earth fault path. Getting between line/live/phase/active and any surface or appliance can not cause any harm to a person and yes and RCD/GFCI will not act... because there is no fault current. Only getting between same and neutral is an issue and an RCD/GFCI won't protect you from that anyway. Lots of these class of inverters don't even have a wire to the earth terminal of the AC socket as it's actually illegal in many countries unless an RCD (GFCI) is integrated into the inverter. Don't screw around with things you don't understand people.
The inverter acts as the power source, just like the transformer in your street/neighborhood. Bonding the appliances together like in my video about grounding/bonding and creating the ground-neutral bond will work the same way as your normal grid power (if you combine that with a GFCI). I have a video about gfci coming up, so that would be interesting. Indeed, don't screw around with things you don't understand, especially AC power.
@@cleversolarpower In a T class system there is potential between the environment and phase causing risk of shock between phase and the ground and also earth wire and ground in an earth fault. In an I class system, which the power queen and pretty much all portable inverters are intended to be used as, this hazard does not exist. By forcing a N/E link you break I class safety and then must employ earth fault protection to handle a hazard that you have just created and since the PQ and largely all of these portable inverters can not trip any but the lowest rated fuses and breakers to ensure rapid disconnection in an earth fault, you must employ RCD/GFCI. Tell me, which is safer? A situation where intrinsically you can not place yourself between two points with a hazardous potential difference; or a situation where you can place yourself between hazardous potential and must employ additional equipment to restore safety?
@@retrozmachine1189 You need a GFCI in combination with a neutral-ground bond to make it safe. Since we have connected a TT network now, we have made it more dangerous and need a GFCI to protect against shocks. As i have said in the video 10:50 you need one. Video coming soon.
@@cleversolarpower Your diagrams regarding the portable inverters such as the power queen do not demonstrate a TT earthing system at all. Your diagrams involving an inverter charger such as the Victron depicted do not demonstrate a TT earthing system either regardless of it being connected to a fixed mains supply or operating off battery. Items such as the Power Queen are intended for I class operation and probably don't even have anything connected to the earth pin of the AC output socket or wiring terminal either and are not intended for connection to a fixed wiring system. The terminal strip should only be connected to a double insulated containment of additional power outlets. I'll pose the question again: Which is safer? A system where it is intrinsically safe, or a system where you take an intrinsically safe item, force an unsafe condition and add additional items to restore safety?
You’re missing something extremely important points! You’re systems are isolated from earth, meaning u don’t have a proper earth connection therefore u also can’t have a neutral, so u cannot have an men! The earth your referring to is the body of the inverter, which is nothing but a metal box.
Earth is having a reference point. In a floating system this is the battery negative. In a grounded system this is literally the earth. It doesn't matter which one it is, it matters that it is a common reference point.
🎁 Free Diagrams: cleversolarpower.com
Just to let you know I appreciate your work. I seem to have a lot of difficulty understanding electrickery but I watch over and over and it’s gradually getting absorbed. Glad you’re getting over your Bells - that smile will come back soon so keep +.
Thanks for your comment! I appreciate the kind words!
Excellent video and important info, explained very well, thank you for sharing.
Glad i could help!
Hi Nick!
Your videos are excellent!
Thanks mg.
Best video on how to wire a Solar system correct...As there is a reason the NEC makes every electrician take this refresher course every year before they renew your lic...
Excellent lesson. Luckily my Multiplus-II takes care of this issue for me. But, I only know that now for watching your tutorial. I’m a long way from learning the full extent of its features. Thank you for your work. All the best to you.
Indeed, it's the 'click' noise when you connect the AC-in.
Great video Nick, great explanation and perfect for us non-electricians to understand. Thank you. I also bought your book, excellent!!
Thank you for your support!
Best explanation I’ve seen. Thank you
Thank you!!!!!!(King of Kings) I have been serarching for this answear about how to find ,mesure if there is bonding in the system or not. And finally I came accross your video...this is working in normal not off grid homes as well and not just inverters?
Good and beautiful class. Can I get the video or book download?
I have a question based off your video how many batteries 12 volt for a 3000 watt inverter. Oppus has the Oppus mega 1: which states 1024 watt hours with 2000 watt output. What am I missing?
Please make a video of neutral ground bonding to rcd or rcbo including a home that is using transfer switch. How do I bond my inverter using the existing electrical system in my home. Should I make a small separate distribution panel just for my inverter then I bond it there before it go through my transfer switch
show a close-up of wires on ground falk/great video/thanks much
The wires are a bit of a mess. I showed the diagram in the video on how it is wired. Much cleaner 😉
It seems that the Renogy 3000w now also has this feature, on the box it says:
"Renogy Pure Sine Inverter *with transfer switch* 12VDC - 230VAC 50Hz"
I will ask renogy if they will send me one to review.
Well done Nick, great subject matter, I'm glad I found your videos... they very helpful. One question, why does your Fluke meter numbers fluctuate in the background while filming when not connected to any AC device?
Glad you like the videos. Have you checked the latest one about a GFCI? The fluke meter is quite sensitive, it's measuring mV because it's in auto range setting.
Wow, that's deep! I haven't seen a video yet on UA-cam explaining in that depth, bonding to Earth. Unless I'm wrong, I didn't hear the host caution about some budget SMPS inverters haing a HOT "neutral" in the socket. AKA a floating neutral. That means measuring the voltage from either legs of the inverters' socket to case will show 1/2 of total supply voltage. Which means that each leg is actually supplying 1/2 of the voltage going to the load. IF you bond the so called "neutral", (the wider blade in the US) to the case or Earth (ground), would the inverter go BOOM? I don't know. What about bonding that same inverter neutral to the NEG terminal of the battery(s) powering it, AND Earthing the battery NEG too! Hmm. Try that with several inverter models and see what happens!
I have an inverter where they swapped L1 with N (live with neutral). Since it's AC it doesn't matter much when powering devices, but when you want to make the ground neutral connection it matters a lot. So that's why you should always measure the voltage like i did in the video.
You can make an AC distribution box outside of the solar generator with a neutral ground bond and a GFCI. Just like i did in the video.
You will always see residual voltage between the chassis of these portable inverters and the current carrying terminals. It's the result of capacitive coupling of the 20kHz or so PWM and 50/60Hz AC waveform. Digital multimeters typically have a 10M ohm input impedance meaning they impose almost no load at all and will indicate voltage even if the underlying situation can not even supply 1mA. Determining of you have residual coupled potential or a situation where the chassis of the inverter is directly tied to some component of the AC output can be achieved by placing a moderate resistance between the chassis and the AC output and then measuring with a multimeter. This is a hazardous thing to do so should only be performed by a competent trained person.
@@cleversolarpower Can you explain 'they'? Do you mean: Inverter manufacturer? I just got BougeRV 2000W inverter which I've tested in more ways than you here but multimiter measurements match with what you show. I've also used osciloscope but osciloscope will also show waveforms of so called 'gost voltages' (N to G for example in this kind of inverter when N to G is not bonded). I've found somewhere that someone asked BougeRV if they can bond (connect) N-G terminals and answer was "NO, it will fry inverter". When I've opened inverveter ground wire was not connected anywhere so connecting N to something (green wire) 'in the air' will not do any damage. In BougeRV wire from inverter circuit board marked as L is connected to outlet N terminal and vice versa. In this kind of inverter it does not really matter as this is a 'switching' power inverter (there is no real L and N, both terminals are 'hot'). I want to use battery-inverter to charge my plug-in hybrid and still not sure I can do it safely. If I do not bond N-G, charging cable will report ground fault. When I bond N-G, ground fault is not there anymore as N-G voltage is now zero. But .. since this is a switching power and G from inverter will be conected to car GND (chassis) I am not quite sure this will not do some damage to car electronics. I've seen youtube videos where people do that without problem. In home wiring N and G are on the same potential which is actual ground (earth). With inverters I am not sure. When car is charged from wall outlet chasis is directly connected to ground (earth). With inverter N-G bond is not connected to ground (earth). That is big difference. When it comes to protection when you have GFCI then it will be safe. Maybe I need to add GFCI for car charging from inverter as well to protect car in the first place. I have car wiring diagrams but GND wire (from external plug) is connected to a 'black box' where there is another chassis ground from the 'black box' but not clear if there is something 'between' that servers as protection? People often use term 'cheap chinese inverters' meaning they are just bad. It is not about who makes those. If they are made in other country they will have same 'issue'. Why some other country (US) does not make 'cheap' inverter like this? I would call those inverters 'cheap' because documentation is usually not so good. For example what is said in this video needs to be in manual so people know how to properly ground inverter and not spend hours trying to find youtube video (like this one). We do not know who the people making youtube videos are and (no ofense) can be trusted or not. But inverter manufacturer knows what kind of inverter they make and what end user should do with them. Grounding is very important.
Great tutorial! I have only one question. ON forums an even on victron documentation i read tht i should conect my battery and all voctron dc elements like chargers inverter... to chassis. I dont understand why i should do that and how about to keep 2 dc systems on same chassis in case of 12v or 24v vechicle system and 48 v lesuire system?
Check my video about grounding. Basically you only want to connect to chasin at one place from the grounding busbar. It doesn't mean there is voltage on that, it's a connection at 0V, not 12 or 24.
Is there a need for separate grounding, that is like an Ac and Dc grounding.. Dc ground for the solar panels and Ac ground for inverter end.
There is no need, but i like to have them separate. The literature also says to keep them separate even though they are connected through the inverter.
In the U.S. as a rule of thumb, 5 wall outlets can be connected to a 120 volt 15-amp circuit breaker. I believe that each wall outlet should be a GFCI and the same goes for every connection to the house electrical system. Think about what would happen to a computer on the 2nd floor if it is on the same circuit as the toaster in the kitchen that went bad with GFCI only in the breaker box?
You only need one GFCI in a circuit. It is required to be the first outlet in the circuit then all the other outlets are protected.
Great video Nick. I have question:
why we get electric shock during cleaning solar panels by water?
Can you make a video to explain please?
That is not normal. I suspect there to be a faulty mc4 connector or a stray voltage from the panels itself. Stop cleaning the panels before more 'favorable' conditions shock you. They need to ground the solar array metal frames. I made a video about grounding, so check it out. The voltage on the metal frames passes through the water from the hose through your body into the ground. If you have wet hands and stand in a puddle, this can become lethal.
I already grounded my solar army metal frames and I checked all MC4 connectors every thing was fine.
But I stiil get condition shock. Why???
Grat vedio, but in-fact we have the electrical tester screw is lights on when we put it on the array cable and also it reads AC VOLT besides if the fuat is caused by the MC4 it will melt by heat we use high DC VOLT FROM the solar panel 350 ,
Inshort we need to now
1- why screw driver light on while it supposed not as the current and volt is DC type.
2- also we noticed in battries poles screw driver lights on
Finally thanks for your great video’s that helps to achieve safe and sound operations.
2
Please sir whats the best pure sine wave inverter
Grat vedio, but in-fact we have the electrical tester screw is lights on when we put it on the array cable and also it reads AC VOLT besides if the fuat is caused by the MC4 it will melt by heat we use high DC VOLT FROM the solar panel 350 ,
Inshort we need to now
1- why screw driver light on while it supposed not as the current and volt is DC type.
2- also we noticed in battries poles screw driver lights on
Finally thanks for your great video’s that helps to achieve safe and sound operations.
2
Sorry, I don't understand your question.
@@cleversolarpower Thanks for your response what I want to say that the electrical test screwdriver is light when we put it on the negative or positive ports of the PV is that mean ? We practically did this test and get this result.
Thanks brother, i know our EVSE will not work on off grid inverter or generator with out bonding G-N
make a video on 12v 100ah battery with a pc with 550w psu , how many hours can give backup?? Please make video on this
12V 100Ah battery has 1280Wh of stored energy. A PSU of 550W would not consume 550W. It can deliver it, but doesn't mean that it will consume that amount. Let's say the PC uses 300W (which would be a medium gaming PC). 1280Wh/300W=4.26 hours of runtime.
@@cleversolarpower thanks a lot bro 😅
The problem I have is that I have two grounds, one at the inverter and one at the supply which causes tripping and there is no way I can change it as the iinveter is remote to the main supley and ground which means both have to be grounded and bonded and this is very problematic.
You should only ground at the power generation source which is the inverter. By supply i assume you mean breaker panel? You have to run a grounding conductor back to the inverter, which will be your normal grounding wire.
Hi - I love your channel and concise videos.
I am renovating a house (in the UK) to be completely off grid and designing the (modest 2.4kw) solar system from scratch, using Victron components. I have a multiplus II inverter/charger to run a backup generator when there isn't enough solar.
I am confused about how to earth/ground the system. My AC loads all go through the latest RCBO, surge protected consumer unit. Is this adequate to serve as a GFCI? Also, do I have to program anything in the multiplus II so that the earth is OK for both the inverter and the charger?
The multiplus has an integrated ground relay, so no need to add the ground neutral bond. If the generator is wired to AC-in, the ground relay will open, because now the generator has the ground-neutral bond, because it acts as the grid. Checkout my video about grounding. 2.4kw is quite low for a home in the UK, you must not consume a lot.
@@cleversolarpower thanks very much for your reply. Yes - I know 2.4kw isn't much. I'm starting off putting 6 x 410w panels on my kitchen roof and garden sheds until I can afford to put panels on the house roof.
One query. What if the inverter is center tapped.?
If you ground Neutral a center tapped Inverter, you are going to get 170v between any battery terminal and the body of any Class 1 device plugged in, IE a metal body Kettle.!
The center tap is the neutral (USA). line 1 and two are marked with L1 and L2. So there should be no confusion between line and neutral. The center tap (neutral) is grounded, this is the ground neutral bond at the transformer. L1-L2=240V L1-N=120V, and L2-N=120V.
@@cleversolarpower No no. I am talking about an Inverter center tap.
the inverter produces a Positive top and a Neutral bottom of the wave form, the center being the zero volts.
If you use any side as a Neutral bond, you get around 170 volts between a battery terminal and the body (Earth) of a class one device such as an Iron or a Kettle.
So you can't Neutral bond a center tapped invertor as it is dangerous.
@@G1ZQCArtwork Never came across a center tapped inverter. However, i think this should be stated in the manual. The manual will say to not bond the neutral to ground. To be sure if you have a center tapped inverter, i think it's best to measure the output before the bond and see if it's similar to my case in the video.
@@cleversolarpower I have a Streetwize (R) pure Sinewave 3kw Inverter, it states in the manual not to be used with class 1 devices, as you cannot provide an RCD earth path due to it being Center tapped.
I have a MG ZS with Vehicle to load do I need a n to g bond and a earth rod?
In vehicles you don't need an earth rod.
What about charging with a generator that has neutral to ground bond and your ac panel is already bonded ?
Good question. If the generator has a ground-neutral bond inside (measure it), it acts as the grid. The grid has a neutral to ground bond at the source (transformer). So you would handle it the same as being grid connected. So, disconnect the ground neutral bond at the inverter. With smaller generators, it's possible that there is no ground-neutral bond. In that case, you have to create it yourself or leave it as an isolated system.
@@cleversolarpowermy inverter does not have a boned neutral but my electricial panel does.
Great stuff 🫡
Question, i want to use portable petrol generator to direct charge a lifepo4 12.8v. This battery is fixed in my 4x4. Do i need to ground the genny? Cheers
Do you mean grounding or make a ground neutral bond in the generator?
Yes grounding
@@Fatfreddy7 You have to consider every power source; a nuclear power plant with an alternator, a transformer, and inverter or generator as a power source. Every power source needs a neutral to ground bond. A system can only have one neutral to ground bond. So you will have to disconnect the earth to ground bond in your inverter when you connect the generator to the system. Take a look at the document 'wiring unlimited' by victron for more information on how to ground a generator.
I have an off grid system and am wondering about earth conductivity. The earth here is into rock and is very high resistance. I have the house distribution board and earth to the house which is a reinforced concrete and all the reinforcements are bonded and external earth. I also have the inverter separate to the house by 60 meters and again is a very poor earth conduction. I have no earth to neutral connection as yet as I am not sure which way is best, the inverter end or at the house.
Can you use the metal rods in the concrete as a grounding bond? Research ufer ground.
If you have a N/E and electrode at your inverter you need to consider voltage drop across the neutral under full load as that will pull your your neutral away from earth at the house. Apply ohm's law. This would be considered a TN-S earthing system. With 60 metres of separation you could actually implement a TT system. Earth neutral at the inverter, no separate earth wire to the premises, earth the premises PE wiring. That could be a separate electrode or using the reo in the foundations etc. If you are implementing TT consider fitting a master RCD on the wiring to the house, at the inverter end. This will protect you against earth faults in the wiring to the house.
In reality the impedance of the earth electrode really doesn't matter too much with independent systems such as you are implementing. Fit RCD/GFCI to all final circuits which is more or less the law in many countries now for a fixed supply and pretty much even a poor electrode will give sufficient earth fault current (this is referring to a fault that passes current to mother earth separately to the premises PE wiring) to trip the device, and if it doesn't then you can't be harmed anyway. An important thing to consider in these types of setups though is step potential. In a fault condition you don't want harmful potential gradient around the electrode at the surface where you can walk. Ensure what ever you do penetrates sufficiently deep into the ground. Use an impedance meter if you can borrow one.
Ultimately what you implement should be compliant with your country's / region's electrical standards. Since you don't say where you are, a wise thing, only general advice can be given. Finally don't bodge a portable inverter into your fixed wiring. Use an inverter intended for the purpose.
Sir..i have 3 Bldc fan/25w Bldc cooler/110w running time 8h day 8h night. Please recommend me how many watt solar panel and battery..😊
Check out my video about how to size an off grid solar system.
How does one identify the Neutral conductor on a (non internally bonded) European inverter output?
You should measure the voltage at the output terminals like i did. That way you can tell which is the live and neutral. Once i had an inverter switch them inside. The highest voltage is the live.
If the inverter is correctly configured with 'European' use in mind, there is no difference. None of these things supply 2 or 3 phase power so what becomes the 'neutral' conductor is up to you. Convention says that if there is a socket on the thing the wire attached to the pin that normally carries neutral is .... neutral, and likewise with a terminal block. Be aware that some inverter manufacturer (hello Reliable Electric) have been known to just slap a label on their 'split phase' USA designs and tell you to not connect the 'neutral' or leave that terminal unlabelled. Honestly manufacturer's that do that should be ... well can guess what should be done to them.
For USA situations where the inverter has 'split phase' output, then there is a neutral and you can determine it by measuring relative to all 3 conductors.
@@cleversolarpower Right, but when you measured them before bonding, you had 93V L-G and 92V N-G. Does the 93V being larger than the 92V suggest it is the Line, or, like @retrozmachine1189 suggests, it doesn't matter *electrically* which terminal you bond to ground?
They’re both live! An isolated system doesn’t have a neutral. A neutral only becomes a neutral once it is connected to earth!🙄
@@matt0x000C If you have a single phase inverter and it is correctly isolated it really doesn't matter. You must still determine that the inverter is correctly isolated before doing this of course.
Personally I've never seen a portable inverter with a switch in the live wire coming out of it as @cleversolarpower says he has, but it's a big world so if you do have one such as this the switch makes that particular wire 'live' and the other 'neutral' since you should not switch just the neutral, similar to my socket example. If the inverter has sockets and a terminal strip the wire on the terminal strip that is connected to the socket 'neutral' pin should also be considered to be 'neutral'.
You must still determine that the inverter is correctly isolated before doing this of course.
Hello Man I really love your videos but I really need your Help So I wonder if you can get in touch with me Best regards Janni.
A few comments.
In an off grid system, example small cabin, you need an earth reference point, usually earth rods.
Renogy pass through inverters, strongly advertised in Europe and a popular choice for RV use, do not have the automatic bonding in stand alone mode.
In a vehicle there must be a reference 'ground', the metal body/ chassis/frame. This is the protective ground of the system.
Please continue to stress the importance of the need for the neutral to PE bond and the need for RCD or GFCI protection. There are so many 'van life' videos, some by 'professional converters' than show unsafe instalations.
USA domestic power systems sypply is split phase, 120- neutral-120 and some inverters designed for that market produce this output.
Indeed, for stationary systems an earth rod should be used.
I'm not familiar with renogy inverters as i haven't used them yet.
Yes, i will include the use of GFCI in my future videos.
I have been scratching my head about this too, so I have just bought your book to try to get my head around this. I have bought a Renogy high frequency 2000w inverter with a built in automatic transfer function between shore power and inverter power. I planned to install this between the shore power consumer unit and the existing sockets to provide an automatic change over. I was then planning to install an RCBO/GFCI between the inverter and sockets. Would I be right to assume that if I earth bond the neural of the inverter output to allow the GFCI to work, I will cause ground loop problems? Would a better solution be to ignore the auto transfer function of the inverter and use something like a 230V ac Coil Non-Latching Relay DPDT, 16A Switching Current 2 Pole relay before the inverter and keep the two systems isolated from each other to avoid ground loop problems?
Bro I have a problem
Tell me about it.
I am an electrician. I have installed 10kv hybrid a few days back. Everything I have done is fine but when I turn it on the out cable explodes! I don't know why! Please help
Check your polarity before starting up the system. And check every connection.
Ok thank you so much ❤
The real answer is these types of portable battery inverters (the power queen depicted) are intended for I class operation. That's it. There is no earthing system or at best IT. There is no earth fault path. Getting between line/live/phase/active and any surface or appliance can not cause any harm to a person and yes and RCD/GFCI will not act... because there is no fault current. Only getting between same and neutral is an issue and an RCD/GFCI won't protect you from that anyway. Lots of these class of inverters don't even have a wire to the earth terminal of the AC socket as it's actually illegal in many countries unless an RCD (GFCI) is integrated into the inverter.
Don't screw around with things you don't understand people.
The inverter acts as the power source, just like the transformer in your street/neighborhood. Bonding the appliances together like in my video about grounding/bonding and creating the ground-neutral bond will work the same way as your normal grid power (if you combine that with a GFCI). I have a video about gfci coming up, so that would be interesting. Indeed, don't screw around with things you don't understand, especially AC power.
@@cleversolarpower In a T class system there is potential between the environment and phase causing risk of shock between phase and the ground and also earth wire and ground in an earth fault. In an I class system, which the power queen and pretty much all portable inverters are intended to be used as, this hazard does not exist. By forcing a N/E link you break I class safety and then must employ earth fault protection to handle a hazard that you have just created and since the PQ and largely all of these portable inverters can not trip any but the lowest rated fuses and breakers to ensure rapid disconnection in an earth fault, you must employ RCD/GFCI.
Tell me, which is safer? A situation where intrinsically you can not place yourself between two points with a hazardous potential difference; or a situation where you can place yourself between hazardous potential and must employ additional equipment to restore safety?
@@retrozmachine1189 You need a GFCI in combination with a neutral-ground bond to make it safe. Since we have connected a TT network now, we have made it more dangerous and need a GFCI to protect against shocks. As i have said in the video 10:50 you need one. Video coming soon.
@@cleversolarpower Your diagrams regarding the portable inverters such as the power queen do not demonstrate a TT earthing system at all. Your diagrams involving an inverter charger such as the Victron depicted do not demonstrate a TT earthing system either regardless of it being connected to a fixed mains supply or operating off battery.
Items such as the Power Queen are intended for I class operation and probably don't even have anything connected to the earth pin of the AC output socket or wiring terminal either and are not intended for connection to a fixed wiring system. The terminal strip should only be connected to a double insulated containment of additional power outlets.
I'll pose the question again: Which is safer? A system where it is intrinsically safe, or a system where you take an intrinsically safe item, force an unsafe condition and add additional items to restore safety?
If you're getting 46v on ground even without a bond, the inverter is garbage.
It's not against ground, because it's a floating ground. The reference is the neutral.
You’re missing something extremely important points! You’re systems are isolated from earth, meaning u don’t have a proper earth connection therefore u also can’t have a neutral, so u cannot have an men! The earth your referring to is the body of the inverter, which is nothing but a metal box.
Earth is having a reference point. In a floating system this is the battery negative. In a grounded system this is literally the earth. It doesn't matter which one it is, it matters that it is a common reference point.
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