If you're actually getting your work done, go for it. If you're forcing your coworkers to cover your work for 6 months until they finally convince your boss to fire you, you should probably feel bad.
Coworkers don't have to cover for anything. They can do their own work too. If the project stops or slows down as a result, it's up to management to solve it, and if they fire you then then clearly you weren't keeping pace. If no one gives a fuck, coworkers do not need to pretend to be management because they are certainly not getting paid to manage the project.
Nobody who is "over employed" is actually doing twice as much work. Especially not in a job like software engineering. This is for people that want to play the system, nothing else. More power to them.
“What do I think?” I think for years companies have been exploiting their workers. I think it’s nice to see the worker exploiting their companies for a change.
Doesn't even really count as exploiting companies if you're getting the work done. Framing overemployment as bad because there are cases of workers not performing at certain positions is cringe
@@Riorozen the US govt is 5 corporations in a trench coat, that means behind all the rosy language of capitalist dogma, they mostly work for corporations
i was an automotive tech for 20 sum years. I was paid in what they call "Flag hours" This means if "The Book" says that a job takes 5 hours, and I do it in 5 minutes, I get paid for all 5 hours. After doing a job many many times, you get very very fast at doing it. I had 3 bays at my disposal and would be working 3 cars at the same time. Those mode door actuators that go out inside the dash board for example, the book says the dash comes out and that takes like 7 hours. Because I knew in my mind exactly where it was, I didn't need to take the dash out. I would reach inside the dash and remove / replace the part working completely blind. I can see with my fingers. Took me 5 mins tops. That is a skill and an ability I earned so I get paid for that. If you can do the work of 10 people you should get paid like 10 people lol
the best period! Why should you be paid the same amount when producing 10X? Makes no sense. And it's usually the top 20% that produces 80% of the work.
I worked remote 2 jobs for 6 months. The idea wasn't intentional. I was looking for work during the pandemic and received 2 offers. It hit me that how do I know if I will like the job or my co-workers. that's when I realized I didn't have to reject either and try a 6 week free trial on both job offers. I ended up liking both and stuck with it. Eventually I was told I had to go back to the office at least 3 times a week for one job and once a week for the other. For about 2 months I was working in one office and doing work of the other job and vice-versa. No one noticed because it's the same type of work. Same softwares and email provider. Reason why I stopped doing it was because I wanted back my free time. I wanted to feel energized after work to work on hobbies and also have personal free time during work.
Exactly! It’s like temporary gig to do with your life just to push yourself either financially or technically maybe both in really short period of time! However some of us get used to it to the point they lost their own life, I been that before and now I’m all on for one employer just to get back my life too and have some energy to do other things!
True. It's not a bad idea if you need to save up money for a big purchase, pay off a major debt or maybe there's some downtime in your life where you can't go out. Broken leg for instance, might as well stay home and work 2 gigs. But the one thing you don't get back in life is *time*
Okay, this one is actually really bad. Don't do this. If you're using the office space of company 1, you can't do work for company 2. That's a great way to get in legal trouble with both companies
Yeah this is me! I have two full time senior software/data engineering jobs, and a third "job" as an advisor at a blockchain/fin-tech startup! It's actually not that difficult for me in my situation because one job has so much bloat/red-tape that everything moves at a snails pace. I write some code, do some sort of system integration or ETL jobs for backend resources and wait around for others on the team. The other job is simply laid back and we have no scrum master. Tasks/projects are fairly flexible. That said, I still do my best at both jobs and work hard to create useful products. I don't play video games or anything so I figured this was the best use of my time. I would highly encourage others to do it just know you're taking on some risk by doing this. I guess my motivation for it is simply money. Money buys freedom and I don't want be a debt slave forever. Eventually I'd like to take a vacation, explore, and to help support my family and friends. This has allowed me to build a new house, pay off debt, buy fun things for my brother, support my young sister, and just not stress so much. 10 years ago I was working construction during the day, a janitor in the morning, and tech support at night. Learning to code has completely changed my life!
@@murtazafakhry2955 Python, SQL, and C# are my bread and butter. I am comfortable in other languages but do not use them as much. It all depends on what you want to do. Python imo is the best language to get started with. I like more of the backend stuff hence the languages I work with. If you want to be more of a front developer, JavaScript is the way to go. If you can master the basics of Python, you will be able to learn any language. There are many similarities. Functions, loops, decorators, methods, data types, etc. From there, it's just a matter of working with specific libraries/packages.
Amazing bro that's awesome! You deserve it too working three jobs at once esp construction talk about back breaking. How long did you work all three? I imagine that had to be a hard time for you. You've definitely inspired me as I'm working to get my Google IT cert and thinking of going the way of data engineer but also love cloud/cyber security too so may do a little of everything. Any advise you have for starting out and to reach the level your at now?
@@Viper-sn5cx Appreciate the kind words! I did construction from childhood until 27 (mid 30's now). Don't have any great advice other than work hard at it. I was really poor and living in a high-crime area, really determined to get out of that life so I pretty much just wrote code every minute of the day that I could. Python was the game changer for me. Watched UA-cam videos, looked over professional GitHub repos to see how smarter people were writing and formatting, and practiced a lot with Leetcode and building my own projects of interest (started with a stock scraper; scraped data with bs4/requests/selenium, formatted using pandas, saved into a sqlite db, copied over to postgres, etl into sql server via ssis). Just things like that. Data engineering is huge rn jobs aplenty! You got this bro!
@@christsciple Thank you brother! It's definitely a huge mountain to climb but great things have small beginnings. I'm excited and can't wait to begin this new career. Thanks for the advice and Merry Christmas!
My only concern with overployement is how it could affect wages if adopted widely. If enough people are are accepting multiple lower wages jobs then employer will start assuming this is the new normal.
Another concern of mine is junior positions being taken by seniors with 3 jobs, saturating the position for the ones that are actual juniors and need the experience
This is so far the only good concern I've heard against people doing multiple jobs. All others seem to be by salty losers that are mad because they can't perform like those that can punch down at multiple easier jobs. I just want to highlight that the golden part about the original post is that it's concerned with the macroscopic outcome of people working many jobs, not the spook of morality.
@@DanielBlak All the stories I've heard of people getting caught, they just get fired. At this point I'd say it's a plus for overemployment since you're not loosing 100%.
If a waitress or a gas station attendant have to work 3 jobs to barely scrape by and feed their kids, I don't see why remote workers shouldn't do the same thing in order to actually have a retirement. They're probably the only ones in our generation who actually have a shot at it. The only difference is one is motivated by survival today while the other is motivated by not having to struggle for survival in the future.
Anybody can get a job as a waitress or gas attendant. Programming is a specialized skill, it takes time, discipline and in most cases, money to find any amount of success in it. What we should be critical of is the government not raising the minimum wage in correlation to the average cost of living
@@ybuburxyutcertyffyyneyb2680 not at all, there are sooooo many tech jobs its kinda ridiculous. I get 10-15 emails a day from recruiters. All different roles, at different companies. The IT field is in desperate need of people, and there isn’t enough “talent” out there. Actually alot of companies are really desperate too, it can all work in your favor.
Having your camera off is a powerful tool. I once worked at a company for a year and never saw my coworkers face, he didn’t even have a profile picture. Found out he had a whole team of devs taking meeting and completing Jira tickets for him.
It would just be too stressful. I work one senior level position and I love when things are "slow" enough that I can work on a personal project or learn something new. It hardly happened at all last year. Also, the constant context switching would be a nightmare.
That's the thing. Let us assume senior means 8+ years of programming (150k) and entry means less than 2 years of programming (65k). What you should do is get 2 mid level jobs that pay ~85k each. This way you'd be able to jump between tasks relatively easily and also finish both job's daily tasks within 8 hours. This way you'd end up with 170k a year instead of 150k. And you'd get more benefits as well. Health with company A, dental with company B and so on.
I agree here. I work two remote jobs, but the second one is only part time. The part time company knows I work full time, but I’ve never told the full time company. And I’m looking to quit the low paid part time job. I will lose maybe $600 a month after taxes, but I think it will be worth it since I earn 10x at the main place. The reason I am still at the 2nd place is because I built their MVP and they are just now doing trials with the client. Pretty cool to see my work having an impact, especially since it was my first paid experience
Confidence does play a key rule. If you run stuff like the Overemployed guy said, yes you'll get more rejection in interviews because they can't fulfill demands, but eventually you'll find the interview where the employer is fine with minimal meetings (and if you know what work is expected of you (which you should) and what you can achieve, go for it). Don't be confident like you run their business (cocky), but be confident in your abilities (know your worth); you're boss can't just say 'meeting scheduled tomorrow'
The key is taking jobs well below your abilities. While I would never inform either employer, if one employer does finds out, your job performance will heavily influence whether they care or not.
I mean if you are performing x amount of work in 4 hours while someone else is performing x in 8 hours then as far as I'm concerned that's their problem The company that I currently work in requires me to do the work and then I'm free to leave What does that mean? It means that I should stop commenting and search for another job😜
@@TheEnthraller It's not your concern as an individual. Do what you want. But it's a problem for society, since the production cost of a product doubles.
@@wiczus6102 why do anyone need to care? In capitalism, u can be as much selfish as you want and society will still function as normal. So, I can be infinitely selfish, ryt?
I currently work two full time Jobs (for 6 months now). I only struggle when my teammates call out & it makes my workload become more. But honestly depending on your career path, it is very manageable.
Being married with kids makes this seem impossible even if your job isn't a highly demanding one. I also imagine the anxiety of getting caught would eat me alive in moments where something takes longer than it was originally estimated. I have worked two jobs in the past, but the burden is a big one and not something I could bear for long, let alone with little children chipping away at your time and needing to help with house chores.
It’s amazing to me that this is even a conversation. As long as you can fulfill the requirements of the position, do whatever you want. My perspective comes from working hourly. I’m an electrician and have worked a second part time job after leaving the first one for the day, six days a week. This is exhausting and costly but worth it if you need the money. I’ve even done this while saying yes to side work (basically freelancing). I’ve heard of people having as many as five hourly positions, working up to 100 hours per week. The fact that introducing this concept into a salaried environment raises additional previously unthinkable objections or concerns is beyond me. This conversation needs to be put to bed: add value for your employer to justify your employment and your employer can say nothing about your life.
True. this 'overemployed' movement is nothing new...its just new to salaried positions...hourly and low wage workers do this all the time to make extra money
Yes and no, yes it is as simple as "you can fulfill the requirement" but one of the requirementd is a lot of the times exclusivity. Because you will learn of stuff that should not be disclosed, you shouldn't share tools, code, systems, designs, etc. It's hard to compare thinking jobs to manual labor. If you can have 2 thinking jobs without actually sharing then fine. Otherwise it is stealing as that intellectual property is not yours when doing a salaried job.
@@rosco3 I feel like the same can be said if you leave one job and go to another. I used to work for a big tech company - there’s nothing stopping me from implementing the same ML algorithms at this new company if I wanted - or I could have even uploaded the code base to my personal git account and reused my code exactly. I don’t do it because it’s wrong, but I do not see a difference between going from one job to another vs working them simultaneously.
I’m a loan officer and have seen this a couple of times just recently. Developers are working 2-3 six figure jobs at once. Average time at each job ranged from 9 months to 1.5 years. Since I could document it for 3 years, the guys qualified easily. Pretty eye opening.
I am doing that as a language teacher. Working for 4 different companies. Sometimes for Chinese companies, sometimes on government contracts and sometimes private tutoring. It doesn't bring as much money as software developer but it's okay. Salary varies widely though depending on clients.
I find it odd that software devs find working 2 jobs controversial. I've worked 2-3 jobs most of my adult life. Most of the time I didn't need to, but I'm not a naturally social person so it's either work an additional job, read, or play video games. Most of the time at least one of the companies I worked for knew I had multiple jobs, none of them cared as long as it didn't interfere without prior agreed availability. The way I'd play it if a company found out and had a problem is to offer them to quit the other job if they'd increase your salary by 50%. At some point you have to ask, are they paying for your time, your skills, or are they buying you as a person. If it's the first, they have no right to care about what you do when you're off their clock. If it's the second, they should have to pay a premium for exclusive access to your skills above market rate. And if it's the third, leave that company as quickly as you can.
I'm pretty sure these devs are working multiple jobs at the same time not like you clock out of one and clock into another. They're clocking into both at the same time.
we are ask to do some things at some pace, even if we have better pace, we are not gonna get more money but instead more work, so best of remote and objectives working its that one only need to most care about do the work at the pace they say, so one end up working like 3-4 hours for a 8 hours job, so instead of working 8 hours for a work that does not pay all that, we usually have 2 jobs, that the work of the day its done in 8 hours, but in sofware there are these people like olimpian athletes, people who can do those works on 1 hour or 2 hours, so they end getting more than 4 jobs, because they can do 8 hours of work at software in 4 diferent companies with the results and demanding of a 8 hour every job, so this let us do our job at the pace of the bosses and getting extra payment of it, because senior devs actually only are valuable for most companies at cobol language, fortran or C/C++, because in other languages they only mostly need to get their work done up in their time stamps, not on the one of the developer but of the company.
@@andysaldivar9703 If you're getting paid by the hour and claiming the same hours with multiple employers, that's a problem. If you're claiming different hours, no problem. If you're paid a flat rate and the work is getting done, no problem.
I feel like if you can work two jobs remotely, it's not anyone's business. If you have to work two jobs in the first place, then the economy is broken. The amount of income required to recoup student loans is ridiculous.
@@jaredwilliams6853 it’s like fast food but you get to work way less, have more time, never have to deal with customers, oh and you get like 5x the money per job
@@ssloc not the conversation, we’re talking about salaried positions with no time limit or time requirement. But even if you do work a job with time requirements, it’s still none of their business what you do before or after work.
Programmer here, Once I had 1 full time jobs and 2 part time jobs, it was the worst, yes I had more money but it was extremly time consumming and I got massive burnt out from having to keep track of 3 very different and complex projects
I could definitely take on a second IT job and make it work My output is higher than my colleagues by a large margin and I have found a lot of time to code on the side My goal is to become a Web Dev, so the study time is more valuable to me at this point in time
This is an interesting topic. The morality of loyalty to a company. I have always erred on the side of being loyal and working more than what's expected of me, however I've found that has led to me being taken advantage of and I'm beginning the switch to "the highest bidder"
Loyal to what?? A dog is loyal to its owner are you a dog ?? No Then friends are loyal to their friends, is the company your friend? No What about family ?? Then explain please loyal from what point of view ?? You are a disposable asset
@XROSS Don't be afraid to use that as leverage and ask for more, especially if you have been with the company a while. I was as the same company for 5 years because I was being challenged and moving teams and tech stacks, as well as really liked the company. I don't think there is one right answer, it is your life, so perhaps building your network and working longer in a good spot has helped. That said, I did switch companies recently since I felt I saturated the amount I could grow and needed to change, plus a step up in salary
@@marinamiletic6153 Do you watch anime? On a serious note, I don't think all companies are out to get you and overwork you. Though there seems to be quite a high number of discontented workers out there.
I'm in a position where I could do this but I choose not to. The endless pursuit of MORE is pointless. Instead of making the number go up I just do what I want to do when I finish my work for the day. I think the most valuable thing to do if your a programmer in this position is to skip the stress of multiple jobs and just work on your own non-productive personal projects with all the extra free time you've earned. It's an opportunity most people never get.
With the rapid inflation and stagnant wages in most places, I'd rather work in two places at once and get more cash in my pocket so I could do something like... I dunno, buy a house with a 15 year loan instead, then afterwards have more of my life to enjoy and work the jobs Id want to work where I would feel rewarded. Or just get back into music production full time if I made enough to be in a FIRE situation.
7:30 this is exactly why developers are so rarely cut even if they underperform. Between recruiters, sign-on bonuses, time on the clock spent by senior engineers/tech managers doing interviews, equipment, relocation stipends, onboarding, drug and background screens, etc. spread over potential hires, most companies will spend anywhere from $15k to $40k to hire one (1) full-time developer. Even a grug who can spend time fixing basic bugs so better engineers can work on actual problems is worth their weight in gold. In my experience, unless your company is facing extreme shortfalls in revenue, you'll never get fired. Big tech is sort of the anomaly right now because it grew too fast on VC and investment instead of revenue. Regular companies that need software solutions but aren't in the software business themselves are almost always safe bets for secure employment. Anyway, I don't really recommend working multiple full-time dev positions. It's doable in the short-term but the mental load over a few years can become extremely taxing, especially when you factor in emergencies popping up that will consume much more of your time than usual at a job.
And also, you are meant to get all in; big impact low effort, squeeze in all the money in short term; staying more than one year in a position doesn't sound like making a big impact ngl
Still dont think its justified under the agreement of being hired, but employees gotta do what they gotta do. The company would expect you to inform them when you finish work so they can assign something else, since you are still on the clock. That said, its kind of an unfair deal in the first place because they pay a static rate no matter how productive you are. This leads people to abuse the system anyway (which I would argue is why we see so many "lazy" workers.) Instead of just killing time, why not do work for another company (even though it's technically not allowed).
@@wiczus6102 you know what's being asked of you, because - it's described in the employment contract - your manager told you - you can remember what your actual abilities were during the time when your weren't overqualified for such a position. In other words - as long as you are honest with yourself about your own abilities over time, you can simply use your past self as a measuring stick.
@Justin Cain there are different employment contracts. Some state that you're not allowed to have multiple jobs. Others do not state such a restriction. One way to avoid restrictive contracts is if you are employed in your own passive income company. It's a good explanation to use when rejecting strict contracts and asking for ones with more freedom.
@@alexanderdinkov8002 I mean how does the hiring manager know what he should pay you? If everyone just works less they will think it's just the norm. Is that fair towards the end consumer? If a hospital has to pay 500k for a piece of software. And 250k of that 500k is people picking their nose at work. How fair is it that the patient in that hospital covers the cost of that software?
The hard part is that each job can't conflict with any other job, but if you don't have to be on a lot of meetings and each job is something you can easily do, go for it. If you start having to work more than you planned for then you know you made a mistake.
Something I would recommend as well is basic data editing work remotely, it doesn't pay much alone but you can set up a "macro recorder" to do it automatically and then you can run a few of those on different computers while you do other stuff
As an semi retired IT professional, we have been working from home long before the pandemic. I know a citrix admin who has been working from home working multiple IT contracts at the same time. I even worked with a guy who came into the office for one IT contract while working remotely for another IT contract. This has been going for years.
free-lance or side hustle is a lot better in the long run to me. with free-lance you can expand your network and tackle potentially many different, but interesting problems. plus, you can focus on helping smaller / family businesses which is nice for free-lancing.
This is brilliant I’ve never understood the whole working for being proud of your work bs and who cares about the other people if they could be doing the same thing and we all know cooperations would squeeze every last penny out of you if they could. Even when they do nice things it’s to increase employee productivity/retention etc; they’re not doing it to be nice.
I think as long as the companies don't have anything to do with eachother and you're completing the requirements of both it's fine, if you need the money and feel able to do it then go for it, if it doesn't work for you it's fine too
I'm a devops and nowdays my position is getting lots of attention. I'm currently working on a stable role where all is undercontrol. Usually I get many offers as remote freelancer fulltime and was just about to accept one to give it a try. After watching this video I'm definitely gonna do this.
What sort of things do you do as a devops? I've administered and built linux machines for the last 20 years and think it would be a breeze to "administer" machines.
@@AlbertBalbastreMorte well I'm not the only one in the team to begin with. I'm delivering my tasks, writing docs, and ye, automation. I been doing CICI pipelines for microservices and pretty much will be only maintenance and observability.
@@Bitlox what I do is CICD pipelines and event driven architectures. Some people is in charge of the most operational side and I design serverless solutions and help with the implementation. DevOps minset is about to deliver faster, reliable, and run systems at scale. A lot of IaC and monitoring
I honestly think this is great but there is one part that draws me away. I’m interested in growing my ability and I need to take difficult jobs where I will he challenged in order to do that. To be overemployed, you gotta punch below your weight range. Although you’re industriousness will grow (hard work, focus, and multitasking) which is no small feat whatsoever and a lot of people could benefit from this, I’m more of looking for challenges where I need to learn more than I already know. Anyone else feel this way?
By overemployment you will get to see more technologies out there, you will understand processes on different projects, you will get a better view on what this whole business is.
I've done this for 4 years now, and let me tell you why: I enjoy working on startups, but usually the pay is not good. To compensate for that, I work for one of the biggest US employers as well, which gives me a much better salary. Thing is, I barely put 5 hrs of work per week for this employer, and get paid for 40 hrs every week. That allows me to focus on my startup work while having the second full time job income :)
I can see someone doing this for a limited ammount of time to raise some money for a specific goal. Having 10 to 12 hour work days will consume you eventually. You also have other interests besides work. What about time with family, friends, books, church, girlfriends, passion projects? You will will sacrifice all that for money.
I can say as someone working full time, but also not being paid enough to actually survive (I'm homeless) I think it'd be more beneficial if I could be these guys, performing two remote jobs at once. Honestly, I only just recently got a raise that *might* allow me to slum it out and survive in a hotel (No apartment complex will take me because I have no credit) and I could use my PC to do freelance remote jobs to get some extra dough. I'm already learning Spanish in my free time when I've finished meeting the physiological needs on the Maslow Hierarchy. I might pick up writing or running tabletop games, which would allow me to work on my own hours. Hell, I wouldn't mind taking some time to apply for jobs I'm woefully under qualified for just to see if I can convince a company to think I'm worth being paid a living wage.
Yes, I would sacrifice all of that for money if there aren't scheduling conflicts(and if you pay me well enough and if I don't burn out). Besides, not everyone reads a lot and some people don't have a girlfriend to begin with and maybe don't even want one(like me). Not all passions are time consuming either. And it might not affect time with family and friends.
I think it’s fine as long as you are meeting your work requirements and deadlines. For instance, even if you are senior level engineer but let’s say you just prefer working multiple entry level positions and can complete this work in a timely manner then who cares lol
@Duke _ Fair enough. I think generally my point is there are far fewer entry level positions than senior levels, so I don't think it is good for the ecosystem. To @@victoranderson1034's point, however, that would only bother someone like me who has that temperament to be considerate of others. Generally I think if we all aim at the highest good, we can make this world a better place, and this doesn't seem that way to me, unless you are up front about it before you are hired. Doing it stealthily seems very wrong to me.
@@R5123 not like that, HR are pretty bad chosing people, and entry levels are all around the globe, all seniors can not (and do not want to) get on all entry levels, and most of HR does not hire if you are new, they usually hire if you can pass their test, so if you can pass the test even if its not your area most HR are going to hire you or get the eye on you, entry level its not fair, and seniors are not fair level, every corpo its not fair, i do not why you think world its fair, its not, quit complaining and prepare yourself for other oportunities, that form of thing its pretty nooby, companies are not going to save students a$$, its mostly vice versa and they hire you in a way they look like they are doing a favor to you.
@@victoranderson1034 Indeed, unfortunately the wealth of the elite is mostly based on that same logic of competition, taking other people, deals mass firing to save money etc..
Hi Aaron, thanks for sharing! I have heard such cases from my fellow devs and been wondering for the longest time how it is possible till i saw your video! Love your insights.
One scenario that could happen in the future if this gets out of control is: The companies will probably open more hourly paid (contractor) positions for juniors and mid-seniors instead of the full-time ones. Saving those positions for the managers and their more valuable seniors. Which can hurt the new generations. But maybe I’m wrong.
This is already happening at my workplace; fortune 500 financial sector. I don't know if it's happening elsewhere, but you'd be naive to think that senior leadership doesn't know about this niche trend in some of their higher pay grade staff. It's funny, social media makes ideas spread so fast senior management find out about it pretty quickly and may choose to act in their own favor. Powerful corporations won't take this lightly, they /will/ just make dev jobs contractual.
I feel like this is a prisoner’s dilemma sort of thing. I think it’s fine that some people are doing this, but if everyone starts doing this it becomes a problem
Im still in college but this sounds like a cool idea if I could manage working 2 or 3 jobs at once for 2 years and then sticking to one after that. Getting the income of 4 to 6 years in just 2. Not have to stress about money at all after that and i could just focus on my hobbies while working 1 job
1. Use a mixer to listen to multiple meetings at the same time. 2. Senior/Principal knowledge positions can potentially have less coding work than your average engineer. 3. Double-book meetings at both companies so it seems like you are contributing to a different team & just didn’t have time to attend. (if lower level teammates don’t have calendar detail visibility: Once you are on multiple teams sign up to several large company social groups that’ll host monthly talks for hundreds to fill up your calendar & juniors will cover for you during meetings without asking seeing that you are busy. Haven’t had a boss that looked at my calendar yet, lol) 4. Use virtualization/removing into your workstations if you have the option. Otherwise the same can be achieved with a physical KVM switch to context switch your entire setup over to a different PC/laptop with a single button press. 5. Help plan work so that other people call out “your” contributions after coming to you for story clarification.
I have my main job and then I just consult on the side for other industries. I find working two full time jobs introduces way too much risk, but telling my boss "Hey, I'm going to be heads down on a consulting gig this week, so I'll be taking off an hour early to switch gears" is a non-issue. YMMV with this approach, as my leadership is very results-oriented and doesn't care if you work 1 or 40 hours that week, as long as the work gets done. I find it affords me quite a nice extra sum of money every month, without introducing a signficant amount of stress.
It's fine unless teammates pick up your weight. Had overemployed workmates and it was such a pain to work with them, had to work extra hours while being paid the same amount
It is managememt that sets the expectations and resource utilization. If works gets done I don't see the problem. Many times employers try to coerce software engineers to double as sysadmin or dba without extra compensation.
A few years back I actually had two full time W2 positions and a side gig doing mobile app development. I burned out after a year but it jump started my finances after the 2008 financial collapse.
I feel like it's justified but at the same time I feel like if people are taking those junior positions; people who want to take those junior positions for example someone who just graduated or someone with boot camp experience won't have the opportunity to take those entry level jobs.
That pisses me off a little. Junior positions are much more scarse than higher positions. But my hope is that there is not enough people doing this overemployment thing to cause a big impact.
What we are seeing right now, is that most companies are hiring mainly senior engineers. Multiple grads and a senior dev have posted on UA-cam about how jobs are not hiring junior roles. Then we have people saying how we are “behind with talent” but no one wants to hire grads our self taught devs who are motivated. It’s crazy
@@victoranderson1034While I agree with you that it's just how things work and there is nothing we can or should do (through laws for example), I don't accept that as a justification to doing it. How is a junior supposed to work in teams or gain real-world experience if they don't have a job? I doubt there is a single good enginner in the world that growed their skills by self-discipline and self-studying alone. You need this real world experience to build actual good systems and more senior people to give the ways (which save days and even months of research if you were to discover alone). And don't tell me "duh, open source projects", because most people don't want to deal with very inexperienced programmers and also, most if not all junior programmer have a miserable time trying to understand the source-code of "sexy" open-source projects.
I do 4 jobs and last 2.5 years ish and made over 1.75 million lol. Jobs are 1) ThreeJS/VR stuff in built up spaces, 2) Medical devices: I'm lead engineer on a very big surgery tool (I do the MR/VR stuff), 3) a job with a mobile video game company making 3D casual games for iOS and Android and 4) finally another VR job for some company using the Quest 2 for training ppl in the trades
@@stomachhurts2044 I got lucky brother 🤣. No loans since I didn’t attend after a year. I came back in my final year and their was a computer glitch that made me get all credits and my degree without paying anything 🤣🤣 even got a refund on my first two semesters fees after I stopped attending but didn’t officially drop out. I have another cool story about how I got a 3080ti at msrp last year and practically for free and a profit cause I sold my 2070 super for more than a 3080ti. Been getting lucky a lot tbh but I like my handle anyway cause it’s funny
You had to work 4 jobs for 2.5 years for 1.7 million? If I remember correctly the GOT cast were paid $1.2 million per EPISODE. Life is so unfair isn't it? One does what he loves and get paid an incredible sum of money and the other has to spend all his time working and get paid peanuts in comparison. The teenage actors in Stranger Things got paid $250,000 per episode in S3.
@@Danuxsy that’s quite true but that’s the world we live in sadly. It was very hard doing all 4 jobs as well I’m still doing 65 hour weeks but good thing is I’ll be in a position to not need to work by Oct next year.
@@MattMcConahaNo I've not mentioned my degree in my interviews because it has never been necessary, I was an internationally ranked programmer when I was 21 so all my jobs have always been through head hunting. My degree is from a tier 1 university. I also am the author of a successful video game from a decade ago and have a lot of other credentials. I am pretty bold at work places too where I would often jokingly boast about how I didn't really get my degree but still get paid as though I have a degree. I still write my university down in my CV and linkedin for added giggles. Also 90% of my coworkers know I work multiple jobs, even managers, I'm too entrenched in their projects to get rid of me and am easy to work with. I can cross lines which most employees can't cross simply because it's very hard to replace me at my price point. I also have two patents of which one still gives me royalty. Also I've worked with FANG companies in the past in some capacity as a consultant and still carried myself the same way and have been asked to work with them even recently despite them knowing my work ethic and demeanor. I am also one of the few engineers who works on specific low level things for embedded devices with low power GPUs Edit: Most of my interviews are just namesake anyway, because they've mostly already decided to give me the job. Though my roles demand 40 hours a week, I almost always put in only 15 hours approx depending on how the work load is.
The simple solution is to be honest as you pursue expanding your employerbase. Plenty of people openly have side hustles. Also, if you're a contractor, there is some expectation of the mercenary life. If your employer wants to monopolize your productivity or time, they should come to the negotiating table with more job security behind the position than contractor status. NDAs/Non-Competes are still fair game to me though. I can certainly respect that.
My experience after 1 month of doing this has been positive for the most part. 1 main job (remote) and then a 2nd shift job that's in office and entry level NOC technician work that yes, like the video said, had to be convinced that it wasn't below me. Low stress while saving for my kids college funds and house renovation funds.
I just spent the last 3 weeks working two separate jobs where each of them were paying me $175k, it's the most money I've made in such a short period of time but I am burned out as all hell. probably because one of them was a startup and it was very demanding work
Dumb question, but how do you manage this? Do you have to basically have two copies of your calendar up every morning, email out, and IM messenger available to respond to chats? I guess if you get up early enough, you could handle one job in the morning, and then focus more on the other in the evening? Generally programmers I know hate to "context-switch," and it seems like that's a skill you would have to be good at for this overemployed to work.
@@R5123 I do wake up very early. I live in California and the company I work for is in Boston. So my day ends at 2:30 p.m. but it also starts at quarter to 6:00. The startup that I was working for was in California and they were aware that I was employed full-time somewhere else. They knew that my primary job had to be my priority but they trusted me. My primary job also has very little oversight. As long as I'm meeting deadlines and living up to expectations in quality - they basically leave me alone
@@dipanjanghosal1662 for my primary job, it's full stack. Node + TS and Go on the backend, AWS, Docker and Zeet for DevOps, and Vue on the front end with mySQL and Firestore for DBs. The contract work for the startup (which was just extended another week) is purely React frontend work. I am definitely not what you would refer to as a senior developer - I'm probably a decade away from accepting that as my label but my primary job definitely forces me to play that role just because of seniority. But I enjoy it.
As an engineer I would spend time building my own startup or business instead of having a second job, this grantees that I can reschedule and manage time effectively, and maybe you'll end up making more money than being overemployed
@@mdikeee4817 we're building an eSports Tournaments management tool (you can think of it as a way to give anyone the ability to create & join online gaming tournaments easily) and it has social features too
Good idea. In fact, you can have one remote job, while doing some freelance work on the side. At first, the freelance work will be slow, and the pay will be low. But give it some time and effort, and you might end up making 2 or 3x more than you FTE. But the fact that you have your primary FTE, takes a lot of pressure off of you. In fact, I take issue with those “business gurus” who tell you to quit your job right away. No, the best way to do it is start while working a remote job. Then when your business takes off, you can quit.
I can't imagine how fucked will be our job market in 5-10 years. You will either work in IT or you will earn minimum wage. The only hope is that soon this bubble will burst and the situation will fix itself because if it will go on it will be our downfall. "Normal" jobs are getting paid shit even though they often require the same or even more time, effort and skills as programming. Seems like something went wrong.
My energy levels would never allow me to put in over 40 hours a week. My best bet is getting two part-time jobs for better job security, if I decided to take a route like this. Odds are I most likely wont. It is an interesting idea, but it has "burning-the-candle-at-both-ends" vibe.
@@MattMcConaha "If you do hourly work, this is 100% unethical to most people". I can't get it why it's unethical being smarter is unethical?. Owning a company is unethcial because you make more money.
@@michetix7885 It's unethical because the company pays you for each hour you do, if you spend half the time on another company's work, they are literally paying you double the money for half the value.
There is literally zero things wrong with this in my mind. Me personally, I probably wouldn't do it simply because that's a lot of work to track multiple jobs at once, but if you're in an industry and the "game" is set up so that this is a thing, then your company needs to figure out how to fix it, or adapt. The only thing you should ask yourself is if they would do the equivalent if they could (make you work multiple jobs at the same company for the pay of a single job), and the answer to that is almost assuredly yes.
People in other comments raised a valid point against it - it's fine as long as few people are doing this, but if most people would then companies would just accept it as the new normal and lower wages accordingly
The company I work for used to bill me out 50/50 to a couple clients and I hated it. You think you can split time 50/50 but there's overhead every time you switch contexts. Also, both companies will expect you can be available at 110% sometimes, for a week or two. Those weeks will OFTEN overlap.
Was just thinking of doing a full time job in the day and remote work in the night and this video pops up. It can be difficult for people who need to give time to their family but for single guy living alone, it's less of concern.
Finding overemployed three years ago helped me buy my first apartment and a better car, I gave up on it once I started my family but before that I had full support from my then-gf (now wife) and trust me, it took everything out of me, but at the end I fulfilled my dreams in terms of financial freedom and I felt much better once I accomplished my goals. It did cause heaps of stress for me and I don't plan on doing it again since I became a father :D
Its justified but difficult...you will miss a lot of family time. If you can get your family on board to this type of work for a year or so, so that you can reach financial freedom, you are golden
It's nowhere near as bad as say truck driving. Plenty of other trades that keep you from having a life and have been that way for much longer than programing has existed.
@@richardspillers6282 I guess it depends how these companies works, sometimes you can get lucky and still have your free time, there was a time that I had 3 jobs at the same work time, and I still had my weekends free and also no overtime... but ofc it's not forever as times passes you start to absorv more and more responsabilities
Nah. Like he said in the beginning you get your work done in a couple hours, then instead of playing video games you switch to the other job and work a couple hours. Being over employed is not about being the hardest worker and going above and beyond to climb that ladder for _0 years. It's about doing enough to get the job done appearing busy, and bringing home a salary that you would never ever get from climbing the ladder
@Nico Gamy Well, sometimes reduce the amount of time that I worked for each company, example in 1 year I put that I worked from Jan to April at A company, may to October at B, and then company C until today.. or I just don't mention some company that I worked but the experience I put under other company's name, cos at the interview no-one will find out whether that experience comes from company A or B.
@@zachb1706 The fact that you need multiple jobs to gain financial Freedom. People should not be required to put that much effort in to afford e.g. a house.
In other words, it turns out the slaves are not happy being slaves. Corporate greed and Inflation is making the slaves try to game the system anyway they can. Bring it on capitalism!
yep this is possible but quite challenging at the beginning since you need to have 1 core income or else didn't work out. Mine was managing 2 office works (1 FTE and 1 paid per project), 1 semi-autopilot business, and 1 investment. for the FTE its 90% routine and full of delegation, just bit busy during peak month and annual review. The paid project is busy on weekend but still manageable since it takes 2 hours per day (weekend around4 hours). 1 semi autopilot business is managing co-living rent houses, i paid 1 guys who cleans and guard the house. 1 investment of second hand electronic retail. For this year i want to scale up my game to learn digital marketing and product manager since I saw many of employee that I work for (FTE) has better salaries and work with less hour.
This one is simple. If you're getting all the work done in your first company and still have time left in the day to get another job and also get the job done, then why not? I'm a junior and I struggle to get my work done as it is so this is not for me right now. But in the future when I'm more experienced and productive, why not? As long as everyone's happy there shouldn't be a any problem.
Do what works best for you. I'm senior and I do like going to nice restaurants, nice places, traveling. I already had 2-3 jobs at the same time, but I felt is not worth it. Felt like I was working all the time. My job is just... a job. Not my life. But, hey, again, this is me.
@@bioman2007 of course. But maybe someone wants to buy a home, make some investments and then when everything is set then relax and enjoy life. It's not a bad strategy at all I'd say.
definitely doesn’t seem like a viable long term strategy for sure. but if done for a year or two to maximize earnings for investments/property/etc i don’t see why not
because juniors such as yourself will be left out with less jobs and opportunities hence a lower number of individuals will be able to gather the experience necessary to one day lead bigger projects . its actually an issue in the economy and the state of future developers .
The fact that we have to work 5 jobs at the same time in secret and wear a headphone on each ear and this somehow "improves your mental health" is perplexing. This only proves how broken the system is and how everything makes absolutely no sense whatsoever nowadays. To me this overworking is nothing fancy to brag about, it is literally a flaw in the system exploited by mind broken individuals out of necessity or ambition. Both are equally dystopian explanations and nothing to be proud of or look up to, imo.
@@eyesgotshowyo7800 For the past 6 years my salary was not good enough to buy a house and I lived with my parents. It meant nothing to me to save 5k, 10k or even 20k per year. I bought my first car and thought "hmm... I could buy another one and I'd still have money left". I was stuck in life and I was/am mentally struggling because I lost most of my friends. You might be thinking "well... then work 2 full time jobs and get a better mortgage!" but that works both ways. A higher mortgage I'd have better chances in the housing market, but a mortgage of 2 salaries means I'd have to pay as if I had 2 salaries. So in the short term it would get me out of the house quicker, but in the long term I'd be stuck with a massive mortgage for 30 years where I'd doom myself to either find a job that pays twice as much or work 2 full time jobs for the rest of my life.
I'm doing this now, I have a cybersecurity job in IT, I have a game development job, and I have a software maintenence job, I'm pretty much programming all day in 3 different chrome tabs lmao, 3x the salary, same amount of work hours
This could be scaled to an unimaginable amount if employed positions. Only limits are that most data entry jobs I have heard of are hourly instead of salary, and then if you have to have meetings you can’t hold as many positions
@@austinfastidio3183 most data entry jobs are really call center type positions. The recruiters just hide it under "Data Entry" to not scare those who are people averse.
I did this for years. Scaling up and down. As many as 4 jobs at once (very stressful do not recommend). But always at least 2. I keep one salaried for the medical benefits and one corp2corp for straight cash. I've been remote for many year before Covid, before working remotely was on the radar of most developers
@@EzeAsuoha when you have a business and contract directly with another business. It stands for corporation to corporation contract. The 1099 is in the name of your business and not your personal name.
i actually do this regularly if i find a better job lol i'll just not quit he previous one until they realize that my productivity is dead and im just weighing them down this is mostly because theyre the same scheduled hours, and the job im leaving is usually remote (MUCH lower pay) and the one im transitioning to is usually on-site (MUCH higher pay), so i really cant be there for both i'll try remote + remote next time, ty for this video it's so obvious to try but i felt in the dark about just mass interviewing and accepting all offers, i thought i could really get in trouble with the tax army
It kind of makes sense. Some programmers are just way too fast for their own good and they end up doing work they are not paid for. If you ever worked at environment with 100 or so people you will notice some of them are just superficially fast and if they know their framework they basically just type flawless code. If you are one of those you can either walk around your open office and write code for rookies or you can sign in as a remote engineer for several companies and get paid for your work. I know it's hard to believe for some, but there actually are people capable of flawlessly handling several jobs at the same time and produce above average results. If they work for several companies, it's a win for them, win for an economy, but a loss for one employer, who got lucky and won't pay for a developer that does work done for several people. If you believe people should get paid for the job they do well, then make "overemployed" legal as long as they meet the basic criteria. If you believe faster folks should not be rewarded over their slouching peers and they should help them to maybe become their new incompetent managers that have to ask them how to lead, while they are still stuck down because they lack the soft skills, then such employer can dress in red and move to Russia as a social system rewarding such behaviour is already in place several thousand miles to the east. They will be understood there.
VERY well said. Don't penalize those of us who work faster than others. If you're paying me for the work of ONE person, I will do the work of ONE person. Simple as that, don't ask about my other capabilities if you're not paying me for them. I'm not lucky to have a job in programming, I worked for it. You're lucky to have me, programming is an employee's market, it has been for decades now.
If anything allowing your cultural growth is an obvious horror vacui for the policy making class, I'm sure the society mulling over the finer points of maybe doing communism is going to be polite and amenable to an entirely new type of rich people? Eh...
absolutely true, its astounding to see how fast their brains can work, even if some of the smarter people just eat shit, while other people have to take into account many factors to even get an ounce of the processing power of those powerhouses lol, as for compensation, you are right, they should get rewarded for the work they are doing. If they are capable of delivering the work of multiple people at once, then they should be equally compensated for it.
@@centerfield6339 Not on contract work. Which is really the way you're supposed to do this. As an employee with a salary, you're being compensated (unreasonably low) for your time. If you're fast enough to survive without being an employee, a multicompany contractor is the way to go.
I did this but with a lower paying job like working overnight @ Wholefoods and suring the day working as a Web Dev. This overemployment is nothing new...its just new in the salary IT world...I mean freelancers do this all the time...and people who work low wage jobs do this as well. I feel that 2 Software Dev jobs are ok...start with 1 remote job and get your job down to a T, then get another one...also remote
You said something in here that really puts the nail in the coffin as to why people do this. An employer that wants to output more value than they are paying you. While I understand that nothing makes financial sense if you're only breaking even, down the line somebody is going to get exploited. The customer, the worker, the manager, the owner. The matter of fact is it has never been the owner except for businesses that fail and for the majority of the time it is either the customer or the worker that is being exploited.
You have a new subscriber now. 👍🏾 Of course it is justified! Being financial free is worth living the over-employed dream if we get to a point where our invested money generates enough passive income to cover all our expenses and keep making grow your investment at the same time. Nice video.
I dont see it as unethical if youre not letting it hurt each job. I am actually more productive and tend to do better with two jobs. It forces me to be more productive and I focus way more
Thanks for sharing this man. I am impressed because there some many ways to make money, work and live un this world. Here in Latin America you can have maybe 3 Jobs, but the normal ones, part-time jobs, like deliveryman or hairstylist. Or even work like a freelance with your degree. But, this is crazy. I wanna try It.
The flip side of this is whenever I took a lead role and they paid 30-50% higher rates, but made you stick to 40 hours max billable, and gave impossible deadlines that made you work 70-80 hours to achieve it, negating the increased rates. Smarter option is indeed to take roles that are easier, you can do perfectly that are slightly below market rates and meet all milestones, deliverables and objectives and you work 20 hours, but can bill 40 hours.
I work two jobs. I have my full time job and I'm also building my game studio. When I finish my work for the paid gig, I just swap right over to game studio work. I hope for job two to replace job one some day, since I'll be more in charge of my destiny that way.
So this is how you get that 10 year experience on a 3 year old programming language that recruiters want.
go developer basically
Hahaha finally an answer
Holy, you are right. No wonder they are asking crazy numbers for new languages.
It makes so much sense now
@@dadutchboy2 Yee
Engineer Gaming! *music plays*
Don't be a 10x engineer, be a 1x engineer at 10 different places
Lol nice one
Golden!
Going to make an NFT out of this.
lol
Smoking😆😆
If you're actually getting your work done, go for it. If you're forcing your coworkers to cover your work for 6 months until they finally convince your boss to fire you, you should probably feel bad.
It is what it is 😂 that's the balance if you can handle the extra work fine if you can't and slack you get the boot
You're coworkers are not your friends, and there is no reason for you to feel bad. They dont feel bad when they let you go...
Coworkers don't have to cover for anything. They can do their own work too. If the project stops or slows down as a result, it's up to management to solve it, and if they fire you then then clearly you weren't keeping pace. If no one gives a fuck, coworkers do not need to pretend to be management because they are certainly not getting paid to manage the project.
Nobody who is "over employed" is actually doing twice as much work. Especially not in a job like software engineering. This is for people that want to play the system, nothing else. More power to them.
@@BillClinton228 Exactly what a person with no integrity and empathy would say.
“What do I think?”
I think for years companies have been exploiting their workers.
I think it’s nice to see the worker exploiting their companies for a change.
Fire with fire... but will say it finally feels fair
@@Riorozen That's dumb as hell. The government works _for_ the firms.
Yeah sure the companies that are still making profit from our labor is being exploited...
Doesn't even really count as exploiting companies if you're getting the work done. Framing overemployment as bad because there are cases of workers not performing at certain positions is cringe
@@Riorozen the US govt is 5 corporations in a trench coat, that means behind all the rosy language of capitalist dogma, they mostly work for corporations
i was an automotive tech for 20 sum years. I was paid in what they call "Flag hours"
This means if "The Book" says that a job takes 5 hours, and I do it in 5 minutes, I get paid for all 5 hours.
After doing a job many many times, you get very very fast at doing it.
I had 3 bays at my disposal and would be working 3 cars at the same time.
Those mode door actuators that go out inside the dash board for example, the book says the dash comes out and that takes like 7 hours. Because I knew in my mind exactly where it was, I didn't need to take the dash out. I would reach inside the dash and remove / replace the part working completely blind. I can see with my fingers. Took me 5 mins tops. That is a skill and an ability I earned so I get paid for that.
If you can do the work of 10 people you should get paid like 10 people lol
Good luck get any employer to agree to that.... Most are very greedy and want profits all to themselves...
that only makes sense , we should be payed for service not time
@@hasty-prize9900 that's how business owners are born I'd imagine...
the best period! Why should you be paid the same amount when producing 10X? Makes no sense. And it's usually the top 20% that produces 80% of the work.
So basically you overcharged people.
I worked remote 2 jobs for 6 months. The idea wasn't intentional. I was looking for work during the pandemic and received 2 offers. It hit me that how do I know if I will like the job or my co-workers. that's when I realized I didn't have to reject either and try a 6 week free trial on both job offers. I ended up liking both and stuck with it.
Eventually I was told I had to go back to the office at least 3 times a week for one job and once a week for the other. For about 2 months I was working in one office and doing work of the other job and vice-versa. No one noticed because it's the same type of work. Same softwares and email provider. Reason why I stopped doing it was because I wanted back my free time. I wanted to feel energized after work to work on hobbies and also have personal free time during work.
Exactly!
It’s like temporary gig to do with your life just to push yourself either financially or technically maybe both in really short period of time!
However some of us get used to it to the point they lost their own life, I been that before and now I’m all on for one employer just to get back my life too and have some energy to do other things!
What do you do?
True. It's not a bad idea if you need to save up money for a big purchase, pay off a major debt or maybe there's some downtime in your life where you can't go out. Broken leg for instance, might as well stay home and work 2 gigs. But the one thing you don't get back in life is *time*
I assume you stuck with the 1x/week job in the end to get more free time back.
Okay, this one is actually really bad. Don't do this. If you're using the office space of company 1, you can't do work for company 2. That's a great way to get in legal trouble with both companies
Yeah this is me! I have two full time senior software/data engineering jobs, and a third "job" as an advisor at a blockchain/fin-tech startup! It's actually not that difficult for me in my situation because one job has so much bloat/red-tape that everything moves at a snails pace. I write some code, do some sort of system integration or ETL jobs for backend resources and wait around for others on the team.
The other job is simply laid back and we have no scrum master. Tasks/projects are fairly flexible. That said, I still do my best at both jobs and work hard to create useful products.
I don't play video games or anything so I figured this was the best use of my time. I would highly encourage others to do it just know you're taking on some risk by doing this.
I guess my motivation for it is simply money. Money buys freedom and I don't want be a debt slave forever. Eventually I'd like to take a vacation, explore, and to help support my family and friends.
This has allowed me to build a new house, pay off debt, buy fun things for my brother, support my young sister, and just not stress so much.
10 years ago I was working construction during the day, a janitor in the morning, and tech support at night. Learning to code has completely changed my life!
@@murtazafakhry2955 Python, SQL, and C# are my bread and butter. I am comfortable in other languages but do not use them as much. It all depends on what you want to do. Python imo is the best language to get started with. I like more of the backend stuff hence the languages I work with. If you want to be more of a front developer, JavaScript is the way to go.
If you can master the basics of Python, you will be able to learn any language. There are many similarities. Functions, loops, decorators, methods, data types, etc. From there, it's just a matter of working with specific libraries/packages.
Amazing bro that's awesome! You deserve it too working three jobs at once esp construction talk about back breaking. How long did you work all three? I imagine that had to be a hard time for you. You've definitely inspired me as I'm working to get my Google IT cert and thinking of going the way of data engineer but also love cloud/cyber security too so may do a little of everything. Any advise you have for starting out and to reach the level your at now?
@@Viper-sn5cx Appreciate the kind words! I did construction from childhood until 27 (mid 30's now). Don't have any great advice other than work hard at it. I was really poor and living in a high-crime area, really determined to get out of that life so I pretty much just wrote code every minute of the day that I could. Python was the game changer for me. Watched UA-cam videos, looked over professional GitHub repos to see how smarter people were writing and formatting, and practiced a lot with Leetcode and building my own projects of interest (started with a stock scraper; scraped data with bs4/requests/selenium, formatted using pandas, saved into a sqlite db, copied over to postgres, etl into sql server via ssis). Just things like that.
Data engineering is huge rn jobs aplenty!
You got this bro!
@@christsciple Thank you brother! It's definitely a huge mountain to climb but great things have small beginnings. I'm excited and can't wait to begin this new career. Thanks for the advice and Merry Christmas!
You are an inspiration. I want one advice from you. Which has better prospects : Full Stack Web Development or Data Science?
My only concern with overployement is how it could affect wages if adopted widely. If enough people are are accepting multiple lower wages jobs then employer will start assuming this is the new normal.
Another concern of mine is junior positions being taken by seniors with 3 jobs, saturating the position for the ones that are actual juniors and need the experience
Yes. I fear that this can't be sustained if alot of people do this
This is so far the only good concern I've heard against people doing multiple jobs. All others seem to be by salty losers that are mad because they can't perform like those that can punch down at multiple easier jobs.
I just want to highlight that the golden part about the original post is that it's concerned with the macroscopic outcome of people working many jobs, not the spook of morality.
That and you know...getting sued for everything you earned.
@@DanielBlak All the stories I've heard of people getting caught, they just get fired. At this point I'd say it's a plus for overemployment since you're not loosing 100%.
If a waitress or a gas station attendant have to work 3 jobs to barely scrape by and feed their kids, I don't see why remote workers shouldn't do the same thing in order to actually have a retirement. They're probably the only ones in our generation who actually have a shot at it. The only difference is one is motivated by survival today while the other is motivated by not having to struggle for survival in the future.
Yeah but it will likely catch up to y'all
Anybody can get a job as a waitress or gas attendant. Programming is a specialized skill, it takes time, discipline and in most cases, money to find any amount of success in it. What we should be critical of is the government not raising the minimum wage in correlation to the average cost of living
It lowers the amount of jobs on the market meaning someone who wants to be in IT may not be able to get a job. Its kinda greedy and unkind.
@@ybuburxyutcertyffyyneyb2680 not at all, there are sooooo many tech jobs its kinda ridiculous. I get 10-15 emails a day from recruiters. All different roles, at different companies. The IT field is in desperate need of people, and there isn’t enough “talent” out there. Actually alot of companies are really desperate too, it can all work in your favor.
@@ybuburxyutcertyffyyneyb2680 That is exactly what I am thinking.
Having your camera off is a powerful tool. I once worked at a company for a year and never saw my coworkers face, he didn’t even have a profile picture. Found out he had a whole team of devs taking meeting and completing Jira tickets for him.
What are jira tickets?
@@Zero-rp4xr tasks
Looks like the play is to live in a country with low cost of living, and pretend to be a US citizen or something while you're actually a company
That’s why I always turn on my camera when I have to interview somebody. If the candidate doesn’t turn on as well, then is done, will be rejected.
I don't turn my camera on because half the time I'm naked.
It would just be too stressful. I work one senior level position and I love when things are "slow" enough that I can work on a personal project or learn something new. It hardly happened at all last year. Also, the constant context switching would be a nightmare.
That's the thing. Let us assume senior means 8+ years of programming (150k) and entry means less than 2 years of programming (65k). What you should do is get 2 mid level jobs that pay ~85k each. This way you'd be able to jump between tasks relatively easily and also finish both job's daily tasks within 8 hours. This way you'd end up with 170k a year instead of 150k. And you'd get more benefits as well. Health with company A, dental with company B and so on.
I agree here. I work two remote jobs, but the second one is only part time. The part time company knows I work full time, but I’ve never told the full time company. And I’m looking to quit the low paid part time job. I will lose maybe $600 a month after taxes, but I think it will be worth it since I earn 10x at the main place. The reason I am still at the 2nd place is because I built their MVP and they are just now doing trials with the client. Pretty cool to see my work having an impact, especially since it was my first paid experience
Confidence does play a key rule. If you run stuff like the Overemployed guy said, yes you'll get more rejection in interviews because they can't fulfill demands, but eventually you'll find the interview where the employer is fine with minimal meetings (and if you know what work is expected of you (which you should) and what you can achieve, go for it).
Don't be confident like you run their business (cocky), but be confident in your abilities (know your worth); you're boss can't just say 'meeting scheduled tomorrow'
This sounds nice, until you realize the programmers doing these are absolute masters of their craft.
its also about having much mental energy
Some are "working" several entry-level jobs and outsourcing tasks to Indians.
@@GhostSamaritan and the Indians are doing the same by working multiple jobs at once aka freelancing lmao
@@shukrantpatil there the circle closes lol
@@shukrantpatil
It's subcontractors all the way down
The key is taking jobs well below your abilities. While I would never inform either employer, if one employer does finds out, your job performance will heavily influence whether they care or not.
Pretty much
I mean if you are performing x amount of work in 4 hours while someone else is performing x in 8 hours then as far as I'm concerned that's their problem
The company that I currently work in requires me to do the work and then I'm free to leave
What does that mean?
It means that I should stop commenting and search for another job😜
It is super hard for employer to find out, and even if that happen I'll just change this job for another one super easly.
@@TheEnthraller It's not your concern as an individual. Do what you want. But it's a problem for society, since the production cost of a product doubles.
@@wiczus6102 why do anyone need to care? In capitalism, u can be as much selfish as you want and society will still function as normal. So, I can be infinitely selfish, ryt?
I currently work two full time
Jobs (for 6 months now). I only struggle when my teammates call out & it makes my workload become more. But honestly depending on your career path, it is very manageable.
It's crazy we live in an era people feel they have to take on two jobs to live a "good" life.
@@Danuxsy Ive had 2 jobs my whole working career. Just now they are both remote.
Being married with kids makes this seem impossible even if your job isn't a highly demanding one. I also imagine the anxiety of getting caught would eat me alive in moments where something takes longer than it was originally estimated. I have worked two jobs in the past, but the burden is a big one and not something I could bear for long, let alone with little children chipping away at your time and needing to help with house chores.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@WinFromWithincrying in my skin these wounds they do not heal
Yep this is for 20s-30s people with no kids. Prime example why one should wait to have children until they are satisfied with their financial status
@@scholaroftheworldalternatehist You will never have kids then
"I miss the part where that's my problem"
It’s amazing to me that this is even a conversation. As long as you can fulfill the requirements of the position, do whatever you want. My perspective comes from working hourly. I’m an electrician and have worked a second part time job after leaving the first one for the day, six days a week. This is exhausting and costly but worth it if you need the money. I’ve even done this while saying yes to side work (basically freelancing). I’ve heard of people having as many as five hourly positions, working up to 100 hours per week. The fact that introducing this concept into a salaried environment raises additional previously unthinkable objections or concerns is beyond me. This conversation needs to be put to bed: add value for your employer to justify your employment and your employer can say nothing about your life.
True
True. this 'overemployed' movement is nothing new...its just new to salaried positions...hourly and low wage workers do this all the time to make extra money
@@Geomaverick124 contractors are not salaried employees, they are hourly so it’s really nothing new at all.
Yes and no, yes it is as simple as "you can fulfill the requirement" but one of the requirementd is a lot of the times exclusivity.
Because you will learn of stuff that should not be disclosed, you shouldn't share tools, code, systems, designs, etc.
It's hard to compare thinking jobs to manual labor. If you can have 2 thinking jobs without actually sharing then fine.
Otherwise it is stealing as that intellectual property is not yours when doing a salaried job.
@@rosco3 I feel like the same can be said if you leave one job and go to another. I used to work for a big tech company - there’s nothing stopping me from implementing the same ML algorithms at this new company if I wanted - or I could have even uploaded the code base to my personal git account and reused my code exactly. I don’t do it because it’s wrong, but I do not see a difference between going from one job to another vs working them simultaneously.
I’m a loan officer and have seen this a couple of times just recently. Developers are working 2-3 six figure jobs at once. Average time at each job ranged from 9 months to 1.5 years. Since I could document it for 3 years, the guys qualified easily. Pretty eye opening.
Woahh
How can an average have a range?
@@wiczus6102 Perhaps average job length per person, and then the range is for multiple people?
He’s estimating without doing the actual calculations. Probably cause it’s just a UA-cam comment and he didn’t feel like it was necessary.
@@wiczus6102 in math an average can have a range, especially if you are using data and it's graphed and the numbers run a consistent line.
I am doing that as a language teacher. Working for 4 different companies. Sometimes for Chinese companies, sometimes on government contracts and sometimes private tutoring. It doesn't bring as much money as software developer but it's okay. Salary varies widely though depending on clients.
Tech workers that find a way to no longer be afraid of sudden layoffs without notice and economic uncertainty. Kudos!
I find it odd that software devs find working 2 jobs controversial. I've worked 2-3 jobs most of my adult life. Most of the time I didn't need to, but I'm not a naturally social person so it's either work an additional job, read, or play video games. Most of the time at least one of the companies I worked for knew I had multiple jobs, none of them cared as long as it didn't interfere without prior agreed availability.
The way I'd play it if a company found out and had a problem is to offer them to quit the other job if they'd increase your salary by 50%. At some point you have to ask, are they paying for your time, your skills, or are they buying you as a person. If it's the first, they have no right to care about what you do when you're off their clock. If it's the second, they should have to pay a premium for exclusive access to your skills above market rate. And if it's the third, leave that company as quickly as you can.
This is the best “the Great Resignation” era advice I’ve seen yet.
I'm pretty sure these devs are working multiple jobs at the same time not like you clock out of one and clock into another. They're clocking into both at the same time.
we are ask to do some things at some pace, even if we have better pace, we are not gonna get more money but instead more work, so best of remote and objectives working its that one only need to most care about do the work at the pace they say, so one end up working like 3-4 hours for a 8 hours job, so instead of working 8 hours for a work that does not pay all that, we usually have 2 jobs, that the work of the day its done in 8 hours, but in sofware there are these people like olimpian athletes, people who can do those works on 1 hour or 2 hours, so they end getting more than 4 jobs, because they can do 8 hours of work at software in 4 diferent companies with the results and demanding of a 8 hour every job, so this let us do our job at the pace of the bosses and getting extra payment of it, because senior devs actually only are valuable for most companies at cobol language, fortran or C/C++, because in other languages they only mostly need to get their work done up in their time stamps, not on the one of the developer but of the company.
I’m curious, do you work the same times (ex. 9-5pm) for both jobs or no overlap?
@@andysaldivar9703 If you're getting paid by the hour and claiming the same hours with multiple employers, that's a problem. If you're claiming different hours, no problem. If you're paid a flat rate and the work is getting done, no problem.
I feel like if you can work two jobs remotely, it's not anyone's business. If you have to work two jobs in the first place, then the economy is broken. The amount of income required to recoup student loans is ridiculous.
I never thought about working two coding jobs like it’s fast food 😂
If you work for a company and they require you to work from 9-5 then it is their business what you are doing on their time. Just talking facts
@@jaredwilliams6853 it’s like fast food but you get to work way less, have more time, never have to deal with customers, oh and you get like 5x the money per job
@@ssloc not the conversation, we’re talking about salaried positions with no time limit or time requirement. But even if you do work a job with time requirements, it’s still none of their business what you do before or after work.
I agree as long as I'm not picking up their slack.
Programmer here, Once I had 1 full time jobs and 2 part time jobs, it was the worst, yes I had more money but it was extremly time consumming and I got massive burnt out from having to keep track of 3 very different and complex projects
I could definitely take on a second IT job and make it work
My output is higher than my colleagues by a large margin and I have found a lot of time to code on the side
My goal is to become a Web Dev, so the study time is more valuable to me at this point in time
This is an interesting topic. The morality of loyalty to a company. I have always erred on the side of being loyal and working more than what's expected of me, however I've found that has led to me being taken advantage of and I'm beginning the switch to "the highest bidder"
Loyal to what?? A dog is loyal to its owner are you a dog ?? No
Then friends are loyal to their friends, is the company your friend? No
What about family ??
Then explain please loyal from what point of view ??
You are a disposable asset
Why would you be loyal to a company that by in large doesn’t give a hoot about you 🤣🤣
@XROSS Don't be afraid to use that as leverage and ask for more, especially if you have been with the company a while.
I was as the same company for 5 years because I was being challenged and moving teams and tech stacks, as well as really liked the company. I don't think there is one right answer, it is your life, so perhaps building your network and working longer in a good spot has helped. That said, I did switch companies recently since I felt I saturated the amount I could grow and needed to change, plus a step up in salary
"Loyalty to a company" HAAHAHAHAHHAAH
@@marinamiletic6153 Do you watch anime?
On a serious note, I don't think all companies are out to get you and overwork you. Though there seems to be quite a high number of discontented workers out there.
I'm in a position where I could do this but I choose not to. The endless pursuit of MORE is pointless. Instead of making the number go up I just do what I want to do when I finish my work for the day. I think the most valuable thing to do if your a programmer in this position is to skip the stress of multiple jobs and just work on your own non-productive personal projects with all the extra free time you've earned. It's an opportunity most people never get.
Yes, exact-fuckin-ly. Wish there were more balanced people like you in the « developed » world.
True. But if you grind two jobs for a bit and get some good $ to invest with you can retire sooner
Agreed. If you already have nice job. Then only thing u need is not money.. Its time for your self
@@Bllakez oh yeah so I can do the things I wanna do now when I’m 50? That idea can go kick rocks
With the rapid inflation and stagnant wages in most places, I'd rather work in two places at once and get more cash in my pocket so I could do something like... I dunno, buy a house with a 15 year loan instead, then afterwards have more of my life to enjoy and work the jobs Id want to work where I would feel rewarded. Or just get back into music production full time if I made enough to be in a FIRE situation.
Wow love the quality of your posts
Great video and analysis 👏🏽
7:30 this is exactly why developers are so rarely cut even if they underperform. Between recruiters, sign-on bonuses, time on the clock spent by senior engineers/tech managers doing interviews, equipment, relocation stipends, onboarding, drug and background screens, etc. spread over potential hires, most companies will spend anywhere from $15k to $40k to hire one (1) full-time developer. Even a grug who can spend time fixing basic bugs so better engineers can work on actual problems is worth their weight in gold.
In my experience, unless your company is facing extreme shortfalls in revenue, you'll never get fired. Big tech is sort of the anomaly right now because it grew too fast on VC and investment instead of revenue. Regular companies that need software solutions but aren't in the software business themselves are almost always safe bets for secure employment.
Anyway, I don't really recommend working multiple full-time dev positions. It's doable in the short-term but the mental load over a few years can become extremely taxing, especially when you factor in emergencies popping up that will consume much more of your time than usual at a job.
I suggest to do thisin bursts maybe half a year and then take a break
A full break or maybe work one job
Either is fine
This that's why for now im looker for experince first in 1 full time job for now
Working just one dev position is extremely taxing for me. Not even necessarily the workload but the mundanity of a rigid schedule and horrible people.
but if the company you working isn't in the tech industry, they shouldn't normally run into emergencies or stress inducing situations
And also, you are meant to get all in; big impact low effort, squeeze in all the money in short term; staying more than one year in a position doesn't sound like making a big impact ngl
It's only justified if:
- You actually deliver the results you are paid for
- You don't cause unnecessary stress & friction in any of the companies
Still dont think its justified under the agreement of being hired, but employees gotta do what they gotta do.
The company would expect you to inform them when you finish work so they can assign something else, since you are still on the clock. That said, its kind of an unfair deal in the first place because they pay a static rate no matter how productive you are. This leads people to abuse the system anyway (which I would argue is why we see so many "lazy" workers.) Instead of just killing time, why not do work for another company (even though it's technically not allowed).
How do you know what is the price of the results you're talking about if everyone works 4 hours instead of 8?
@@wiczus6102 you know what's being asked of you, because
- it's described in the employment contract
- your manager told you
- you can remember what your actual abilities were during the time when your weren't overqualified for such a position. In other words - as long as you are honest with yourself about your own abilities over time, you can simply use your past self as a measuring stick.
@Justin Cain there are different employment contracts.
Some state that you're not allowed to have multiple jobs.
Others do not state such a restriction.
One way to avoid restrictive contracts is if you are employed in your own passive income company. It's a good explanation to use when rejecting strict contracts and asking for ones with more freedom.
@@alexanderdinkov8002 I mean how does the hiring manager know what he should pay you? If everyone just works less they will think it's just the norm. Is that fair towards the end consumer?
If a hospital has to pay 500k for a piece of software. And 250k of that 500k is people picking their nose at work. How fair is it that the patient in that hospital covers the cost of that software?
The hard part is that each job can't conflict with any other job, but if you don't have to be on a lot of meetings and each job is something you can easily do, go for it. If you start having to work more than you planned for then you know you made a mistake.
Something I would recommend as well is basic data editing work remotely, it doesn't pay much alone but you can set up a "macro recorder" to do it automatically and then you can run a few of those on different computers while you do other stuff
As an semi retired IT professional, we have been working from home long before the pandemic. I know a citrix admin who has been working from home working multiple IT contracts at the same time. I even worked with a guy who came into the office for one IT contract while working remotely for another IT contract. This has been going for years.
free-lance or side hustle is a lot better in the long run to me. with free-lance you can expand your network and tackle potentially many different, but interesting problems. plus, you can focus on helping smaller / family businesses which is nice for free-lancing.
This is brilliant I’ve never understood the whole working for being proud of your work bs and who cares about the other people if they could be doing the same thing and we all know cooperations would squeeze every last penny out of you if they could. Even when they do nice things it’s to increase employee productivity/retention etc; they’re not doing it to be nice.
yea homo sapiens are a disgusting species, may our AI overlords crush us.
I think as long as the companies don't have anything to do with eachother and you're completing the requirements of both it's fine, if you need the money and feel able to do it then go for it, if it doesn't work for you it's fine too
Mind blowing. Now I suspect why my fellow programmer is often missing, and not doing more.
Lol this comment sounds like a clip from the Office series
I'm a devops and nowdays my position is getting lots of attention. I'm currently working on a stable role where all is undercontrol. Usually I get many offers as remote freelancer fulltime and was just about to accept one to give it a try. After watching this video I'm definitely gonna do this.
So what would having stuff under control mean in the case of a devops? No system crashes? All operations being automatised?
What sort of things do you do as a devops? I've administered and built linux machines for the last 20 years and think it would be a breeze to "administer" machines.
@@AlbertBalbastreMorte well I'm not the only one in the team to begin with. I'm delivering my tasks, writing docs, and ye, automation. I been doing CICI pipelines for microservices and pretty much will be only maintenance and observability.
@@Bitlox what I do is CICD pipelines and event driven architectures. Some people is in charge of the most operational side and I design serverless solutions and help with the implementation. DevOps minset is about to deliver faster, reliable, and run systems at scale. A lot of IaC and monitoring
Did u end up doing it?
I honestly think this is great but there is one part that draws me away. I’m interested in growing my ability and I need to take difficult jobs where I will he challenged in order to do that. To be overemployed, you gotta punch below your weight range. Although you’re industriousness will grow (hard work, focus, and multitasking) which is no small feat whatsoever and a lot of people could benefit from this, I’m more of looking for challenges where I need to learn more than I already know. Anyone else feel this way?
Yes, same. I have ambitions and want to grow in my career, not just chase the paycheck.
By overemployment you will get to see more technologies out there, you will understand processes on different projects, you will get a better view on what this whole business is.
I've done this for 4 years now, and let me tell you why: I enjoy working on startups, but usually the pay is not good. To compensate for that, I work for one of the biggest US employers as well, which gives me a much better salary. Thing is, I barely put 5 hrs of work per week for this employer, and get paid for 40 hrs every week. That allows me to focus on my startup work while having the second full time job income :)
Are you aware of any companie hiring for remote web/software developers currently?
I can see someone doing this for a limited ammount of time to raise some money for a specific goal. Having 10 to 12 hour work days will consume you eventually. You also have other interests besides work.
What about time with family, friends, books, church, girlfriends, passion projects?
You will will sacrifice all that for money.
Could save you a few years if you can put your second salary down to pay off a loan
I can say as someone working full time, but also not being paid enough to actually survive (I'm homeless)
I think it'd be more beneficial if I could be these guys, performing two remote jobs at once. Honestly, I only just recently got a raise that *might* allow me to slum it out and survive in a hotel (No apartment complex will take me because I have no credit) and I could use my PC to do freelance remote jobs to get some extra dough.
I'm already learning Spanish in my free time when I've finished meeting the physiological needs on the Maslow Hierarchy. I might pick up writing or running tabletop games, which would allow me to work on my own hours.
Hell, I wouldn't mind taking some time to apply for jobs I'm woefully under qualified for just to see if I can convince a company to think I'm worth being paid a living wage.
Yes, I would sacrifice all of that for money if there aren't scheduling conflicts(and if you pay me well enough and if I don't burn out). Besides, not everyone reads a lot and some people don't have a girlfriend to begin with and maybe don't even want one(like me). Not all passions are time consuming either. And it might not affect time with family and friends.
I think it’s fine as long as you are meeting your work requirements and deadlines. For instance, even if you are senior level engineer but let’s say you just prefer working multiple entry level positions and can complete this work in a timely manner then who cares lol
Well one downside is that you are taking up 2 entry level positions that would be ideal for other people new in their tech career
@@R5123 but you are leaving open a senior level position for someone else.
@Duke _ Fair enough. I think generally my point is there are far fewer entry level positions than senior levels, so I don't think it is good for the ecosystem.
To @@victoranderson1034's point, however, that would only bother someone like me who has that temperament to be considerate of others. Generally I think if we all aim at the highest good, we can make this world a better place, and this doesn't seem that way to me, unless you are up front about it before you are hired. Doing it stealthily seems very wrong to me.
@@R5123 not like that, HR are pretty bad chosing people, and entry levels are all around the globe, all seniors can not (and do not want to) get on all entry levels, and most of HR does not hire if you are new, they usually hire if you can pass their test, so if you can pass the test even if its not your area most HR are going to hire you or get the eye on you, entry level its not fair, and seniors are not fair level, every corpo its not fair, i do not why you think world its fair, its not, quit complaining and prepare yourself for other oportunities, that form of thing its pretty nooby, companies are not going to save students a$$, its mostly vice versa and they hire you in a way they look like they are doing a favor to you.
@@victoranderson1034 Indeed, unfortunately the wealth of the elite is mostly based on that same logic of competition, taking other people, deals mass firing to save money etc..
Hi Aaron, thanks for sharing! I have heard such cases from my fellow devs and been wondering for the longest time how it is possible till i saw your video! Love your insights.
Thanks so much!
I appreciate your honesty!!!
🙌 thx:)
One scenario that could happen in the future if this gets out of control is: The companies will probably open more hourly paid (contractor) positions for juniors and mid-seniors instead of the full-time ones. Saving those positions for the managers and their more valuable seniors. Which can hurt the new generations. But maybe I’m wrong.
Maybe, also likely that at some point our employment will actually be tracked
Well the term for that is micro managing. It is already happening specially in the third world countries.
we live in a very egocentric society, people care only about themselves and don't care if it hurt newer generations that will take their place.
This is already happening at my workplace; fortune 500 financial sector. I don't know if it's happening elsewhere, but you'd be naive to think that senior leadership doesn't know about this niche trend in some of their higher pay grade staff.
It's funny, social media makes ideas spread so fast senior management find out about it pretty quickly and may choose to act in their own favor. Powerful corporations won't take this lightly, they /will/ just make dev jobs contractual.
@@Danuxsy tell that to the boomers that bought out all the flats and houses and sell them for 10x now forcing me to rent.
I feel like this is a prisoner’s dilemma sort of thing. I think it’s fine that some people are doing this, but if everyone starts doing this it becomes a problem
If it becomes a systematic problem someone someone will take care of it.
Right now it's just a good option for those who can do it.
Im still in college but this sounds like a cool idea if I could manage working 2 or 3 jobs at once for 2 years and then sticking to one after that. Getting the income of 4 to 6 years in just 2. Not have to stress about money at all after that and i could just focus on my hobbies while working 1 job
This really helped thanks a lot!
1. Use a mixer to listen to multiple meetings at the same time.
2. Senior/Principal knowledge positions can potentially have less coding work than your average engineer.
3. Double-book meetings at both companies so it seems like you are contributing to a different team & just didn’t have time to attend. (if lower level teammates don’t have calendar detail visibility: Once you are on multiple teams sign up to several large company social groups that’ll host monthly talks for hundreds to fill up your calendar & juniors will cover for you during meetings without asking seeing that you are busy. Haven’t had a boss that looked at my calendar yet, lol)
4. Use virtualization/removing into your workstations if you have the option. Otherwise the same can be achieved with a physical KVM switch to context switch your entire setup over to a different PC/laptop with a single button press.
5. Help plan work so that other people call out “your” contributions after coming to you for story clarification.
I have my main job and then I just consult on the side for other industries. I find working two full time jobs introduces way too much risk, but telling my boss "Hey, I'm going to be heads down on a consulting gig this week, so I'll be taking off an hour early to switch gears" is a non-issue. YMMV with this approach, as my leadership is very results-oriented and doesn't care if you work 1 or 40 hours that week, as long as the work gets done. I find it affords me quite a nice extra sum of money every month, without introducing a signficant amount of stress.
Really well made video, crazy concept!
Thx!
It's fine unless teammates pick up your weight. Had overemployed workmates and it was such a pain to work with them, had to work extra hours while being paid the same amount
It is managememt that sets the expectations and resource utilization. If works gets done I don't see the problem. Many times employers try to coerce software engineers to double as sysadmin or dba without extra compensation.
A few years back I actually had two full time W2 positions and a side gig doing mobile app development. I burned out after a year but it jump started my finances after the 2008 financial collapse.
might need to do this after this 2022 collapse haha
Hey Travis, what were your two full time jobs? Not asking for a specific company name, just the work you did.
I am ready for this.
Great video! Thanks!!
Thx!
I feel like it's justified but at the same time I feel like if people are taking those junior positions; people who want to take those junior positions for example someone who just graduated or someone with boot camp experience won't have the opportunity to take those entry level jobs.
That pisses me off a little. Junior positions are much more scarse than higher positions. But my hope is that there is not enough people doing this overemployment thing to cause a big impact.
agreed
What we are seeing right now, is that most companies are hiring mainly senior engineers. Multiple grads and a senior dev have posted on UA-cam about how jobs are not hiring junior roles. Then we have people saying how we are “behind with talent” but no one wants to hire grads our self taught devs who are motivated. It’s crazy
@@victoranderson1034 you say that like I'm from a 3rd world country lmao
@@victoranderson1034While I agree with you that it's just how things work and there is nothing we can or should do (through laws for example), I don't accept that as a justification to doing it. How is a junior supposed to work in teams or gain real-world experience if they don't have a job? I doubt there is a single good enginner in the world that growed their skills by self-discipline and self-studying alone. You need this real world experience to build actual good systems and more senior people to give the ways (which save days and even months of research if you were to discover alone). And don't tell me "duh, open source projects", because most people don't want to deal with very inexperienced programmers and also, most if not all junior programmer have a miserable time trying to understand the source-code of "sexy" open-source projects.
I do 4 jobs and last 2.5 years ish and made over 1.75 million lol. Jobs are 1) ThreeJS/VR stuff in built up spaces, 2) Medical devices: I'm lead engineer on a very big surgery tool (I do the MR/VR stuff), 3) a job with a mobile video game company making 3D casual games for iOS and Android and 4) finally another VR job for some company using the Quest 2 for training ppl in the trades
Lmao how them student loans tho
@@stomachhurts2044 I got lucky brother 🤣. No loans since I didn’t attend after a year. I came back in my final year and their was a computer glitch that made me get all credits and my degree without paying anything 🤣🤣 even got a refund on my first two semesters fees after I stopped attending but didn’t officially drop out. I have another cool story about how I got a 3080ti at msrp last year and practically for free and a profit cause I sold my 2070 super for more than a 3080ti. Been getting lucky a lot tbh but I like my handle anyway cause it’s funny
You had to work 4 jobs for 2.5 years for 1.7 million? If I remember correctly the GOT cast were paid $1.2 million per EPISODE. Life is so unfair isn't it? One does what he loves and get paid an incredible sum of money and the other has to spend all his time working and get paid peanuts in comparison. The teenage actors in Stranger Things got paid $250,000 per episode in S3.
@@Danuxsy that’s quite true but that’s the world we live in sadly. It was very hard doing all 4 jobs as well I’m still doing 65 hour weeks but good thing is I’ll be in a position to not need to work by Oct next year.
@@MattMcConahaNo I've not mentioned my degree in my interviews because it has never been necessary, I was an internationally ranked programmer when I was 21 so all my jobs have always been through head hunting. My degree is from a tier 1 university. I also am the author of a successful video game from a decade ago and have a lot of other credentials. I am pretty bold at work places too where I would often jokingly boast about how I didn't really get my degree but still get paid as though I have a degree. I still write my university down in my CV and linkedin for added giggles. Also 90% of my coworkers know I work multiple jobs, even managers, I'm too entrenched in their projects to get rid of me and am easy to work with. I can cross lines which most employees can't cross simply because it's very hard to replace me at my price point. I also have two patents of which one still gives me royalty. Also I've worked with FANG companies in the past in some capacity as a consultant and still carried myself the same way and have been asked to work with them even recently despite them knowing my work ethic and demeanor.
I am also one of the few engineers who works on specific low level things for embedded devices with low power GPUs
Edit: Most of my interviews are just namesake anyway, because they've mostly already decided to give me the job. Though my roles demand 40 hours a week, I almost always put in only 15 hours approx depending on how the work load is.
The simple solution is to be honest as you pursue expanding your employerbase. Plenty of people openly have side hustles. Also, if you're a contractor, there is some expectation of the mercenary life. If your employer wants to monopolize your productivity or time, they should come to the negotiating table with more job security behind the position than contractor status. NDAs/Non-Competes are still fair game to me though. I can certainly respect that.
My experience after 1 month of doing this has been positive for the most part.
1 main job (remote) and then a 2nd shift job that's in office and entry level NOC technician work that yes, like the video said, had to be convinced that it wasn't below me.
Low stress while saving for my kids college funds and house renovation funds.
I just spent the last 3 weeks working two separate jobs where each of them were paying me $175k, it's the most money I've made in such a short period of time but I am burned out as all hell. probably because one of them was a startup and it was very demanding work
Dumb question, but how do you manage this? Do you have to basically have two copies of your calendar up every morning, email out, and IM messenger available to respond to chats?
I guess if you get up early enough, you could handle one job in the morning, and then focus more on the other in the evening? Generally programmers I know hate to "context-switch," and it seems like that's a skill you would have to be good at for this overemployed to work.
@@R5123 I do wake up very early. I live in California and the company I work for is in Boston. So my day ends at 2:30 p.m. but it also starts at quarter to 6:00.
The startup that I was working for was in California and they were aware that I was employed full-time somewhere else. They knew that my primary job had to be my priority but they trusted me.
My primary job also has very little oversight. As long as I'm meeting deadlines and living up to expectations in quality - they basically leave me alone
@@bobDotJS may I know what are technology stacks you're working in? Like web dev or dev ops or something else?
@@dipanjanghosal1662 for my primary job, it's full stack. Node + TS and Go on the backend, AWS, Docker and Zeet for DevOps, and Vue on the front end with mySQL and Firestore for DBs.
The contract work for the startup (which was just extended another week) is purely React frontend work.
I am definitely not what you would refer to as a senior developer - I'm probably a decade away from accepting that as my label but my primary job definitely forces me to play that role just because of seniority. But I enjoy it.
@@bobDotJS wow, thanks for the reply
As an engineer I would spend time building my own startup or business instead of having a second job, this grantees that I can reschedule and manage time effectively, and maybe you'll end up making more money than being overemployed
what does your startup do if you don’t mind me asking
@@mdikeee4817 we're building an eSports Tournaments management tool (you can think of it as a way to give anyone the ability to create & join online gaming tournaments easily) and it has social features too
@@MattMcConaha I actually do
Good idea. In fact, you can have one remote job, while doing some freelance work on the side. At first, the freelance work will be slow, and the pay will be low. But give it some time and effort, and you might end up making 2 or 3x more than you FTE. But the fact that you have your primary FTE, takes a lot of pressure off of you. In fact, I take issue with those “business gurus” who tell you to quit your job right away. No, the best way to do it is start while working a remote job. Then when your business takes off, you can quit.
@@mohamed_elmardi if you need a social media manager hmu
This was interesting to know
I can't imagine how fucked will be our job market in 5-10 years. You will either work in IT or you will earn minimum wage. The only hope is that soon this bubble will burst and the situation will fix itself because if it will go on it will be our downfall. "Normal" jobs are getting paid shit even though they often require the same or even more time, effort and skills as programming. Seems like something went wrong.
My energy levels would never allow me to put in over 40 hours a week. My best bet is getting two part-time jobs for better job security, if I decided to take a route like this. Odds are I most likely wont. It is an interesting idea, but it has "burning-the-candle-at-both-ends" vibe.
@@MattMcConaha "If you do hourly work, this is 100% unethical to most people". I can't get it why it's unethical being smarter is unethical?. Owning a company is unethcial because you make more money.
@@michetix7885 It's unethical because the company pays you for each hour you do, if you spend half the time on another company's work, they are literally paying you double the money for half the value.
@@michetix7885 why is making money inherently unethical?
@@quinnherden I have no idea.
@@quinnherden Alright I'm going to start scamming people.
There is literally zero things wrong with this in my mind. Me personally, I probably wouldn't do it simply because that's a lot of work to track multiple jobs at once, but if you're in an industry and the "game" is set up so that this is a thing, then your company needs to figure out how to fix it, or adapt. The only thing you should ask yourself is if they would do the equivalent if they could (make you work multiple jobs at the same company for the pay of a single job), and the answer to that is almost assuredly yes.
Well if you think about it it's already happening. Doing work nowhere near what a person with your position should be doing is common.
@@x_Degurechaff_x Right, that's my point. Just breaking the logic down.
Yeah cut all WFH. Don't be a scumbag.
One look at the wealth distribution in America should be enough reason to be overemployed. We're stealing mere pennies compared to folks at top
People in other comments raised a valid point against it - it's fine as long as few people are doing this, but if most people would then companies would just accept it as the new normal and lower wages accordingly
Yep. This helps a lot. Been on it last 2 years
Damn haven’t watched in a long while, your production value has gone up so while. Nice to see you come so far.
🙌 Thx!
The company I work for used to bill me out 50/50 to a couple clients and I hated it. You think you can split time 50/50 but there's overhead every time you switch contexts. Also, both companies will expect you can be available at 110% sometimes, for a week or two. Those weeks will OFTEN overlap.
Was just thinking of doing a full time job in the day and remote work in the night and this video pops up. It can be difficult for people who need to give time to their family but for single guy living alone, it's less of concern.
Finding overemployed three years ago helped me buy my first apartment and a better car, I gave up on it once I started my family but before that I had full support from my then-gf (now wife) and trust me, it took everything out of me, but at the end I fulfilled my dreams in terms of financial freedom and I felt much better once I accomplished my goals. It did cause heaps of stress for me and I don't plan on doing it again since I became a father :D
This is a great video man
🙌
Its justified but difficult...you will miss a lot of family time. If you can get your family on board to this type of work for a year or so, so that you can reach financial freedom, you are golden
It's nowhere near as bad as say truck driving. Plenty of other trades that keep you from having a life and have been that way for much longer than programing has existed.
@@richardspillers6282 I guess it depends how these companies works, sometimes you can get lucky and still have your free time, there was a time that I had 3 jobs at the same work time, and I still had my weekends free and also no overtime... but ofc it's not forever as times passes you start to absorv more and more responsabilities
Whats a fameli??
Nah. Like he said in the beginning you get your work done in a couple hours, then instead of playing video games you switch to the other job and work a couple hours. Being over employed is not about being the hardest worker and going above and beyond to climb that ladder for _0 years. It's about doing enough to get the job done appearing busy, and bringing home a salary that you would never ever get from climbing the ladder
@Nico Gamy Well, sometimes reduce the amount of time that I worked for each company, example in 1 year I put that I worked from Jan to April at A company, may to October at B, and then company C until today.. or I just don't mention some company that I worked but the experience I put under other company's name, cos at the interview no-one will find out whether that experience comes from company A or B.
No body complains when it’s a McDonald’s employee doing two jobs you better not be making lots of money… 😂
They would if while flipping burgers he was also doing customer service calls on his phone from a remote call center center.
The fact that people need to work multiple jobs to earn financial freedom shows, that there is something absurdly wrong with society
What's wrong?
@@zachb1706 The fact that you need multiple jobs to gain financial Freedom. People should not be required to put that much effort in to afford e.g. a house.
@@rhainerdotov9535 well you don't need to work multiple jobs to afford a house. These people work multiple jobs because they want to get ahead
That's the way to go.
In other words, it turns out the slaves are not happy being slaves. Corporate greed and Inflation is making the slaves try to game the system anyway they can.
Bring it on capitalism!
Interesting stuff man. Though you really have to be unattached in nature to pull this off and not get gray hairs from stress
LMAO, you are so hilarious 😁😁😁
Love this video
Thx!
yep this is possible but quite challenging at the beginning since you need to have 1 core income or else didn't work out. Mine was managing 2 office works (1 FTE and 1 paid per project), 1 semi-autopilot business, and 1 investment. for the FTE its 90% routine and full of delegation, just bit busy during peak month and annual review. The paid project is busy on weekend but still manageable since it takes 2 hours per day (weekend around4 hours). 1 semi autopilot business is managing co-living rent houses, i paid 1 guys who cleans and guard the house. 1 investment of second hand electronic retail. For this year i want to scale up my game to learn digital marketing and product manager since I saw many of employee that I work for (FTE) has better salaries and work with less hour.
This one is simple. If you're getting all the work done in your first company and still have time left in the day to get another job and also get the job done, then why not? I'm a junior and I struggle to get my work done as it is so this is not for me right now. But in the future when I'm more experienced and productive, why not? As long as everyone's happy there shouldn't be a any problem.
Do what works best for you. I'm senior and I do like going to nice restaurants, nice places, traveling. I already had 2-3 jobs at the same time, but I felt is not worth it. Felt like I was working all the time. My job is just... a job. Not my life. But, hey, again, this is me.
@@bioman2007 of course. But maybe someone wants to buy a home, make some investments and then when everything is set then relax and enjoy life. It's not a bad strategy at all I'd say.
definitely doesn’t seem like a viable long term strategy for sure. but if done for a year or two to maximize earnings for investments/property/etc i don’t see why not
@@ianawilsonn exactly
because juniors such as yourself will be left out with less jobs and opportunities hence a lower number of individuals will be able to gather the experience necessary to one day lead bigger projects . its actually an issue in the economy and the state of future developers .
The fact that we have to work 5 jobs at the same time in secret and wear a headphone on each ear and this somehow "improves your mental health" is perplexing.
This only proves how broken the system is and how everything makes absolutely no sense whatsoever nowadays.
To me this overworking is nothing fancy to brag about, it is literally a flaw in the system exploited by mind broken individuals out of necessity or ambition. Both are equally dystopian explanations and nothing to be proud of or look up to, imo.
I work for 2 full time jobs. The paycheck absolutely helps with mental health
@@eyesgotshowyo7800 😂
@@eyesgotshowyo7800 For the past 6 years my salary was not good enough to buy a house and I lived with my parents. It meant nothing to me to save 5k, 10k or even 20k per year. I bought my first car and thought "hmm... I could buy another one and I'd still have money left". I was stuck in life and I was/am mentally struggling because I lost most of my friends. You might be thinking "well... then work 2 full time jobs and get a better mortgage!" but that works both ways. A higher mortgage I'd have better chances in the housing market, but a mortgage of 2 salaries means I'd have to pay as if I had 2 salaries. So in the short term it would get me out of the house quicker, but in the long term I'd be stuck with a massive mortgage for 30 years where I'd doom myself to either find a job that pays twice as much or work 2 full time jobs for the rest of my life.
@@rachellejanssen2655
Why would you choose a house that expensive? Just buy what you can afford with one salary and pay for it with two.
You’re right of course, but all we can do is move with the foul winds of our time until something changes. For better or worse.
Very interesting.
I'm doing this now, I have a cybersecurity job in IT, I have a game development job, and I have a software maintenence job, I'm pretty much programming all day in 3 different chrome tabs lmao, 3x the salary, same amount of work hours
I have never worked two full-time jobs at once but I always have side contracts that I do in my own time on the evenings.
I won’t lie, I have thought about doing something similar. But I was thinking a Data Entry job. Most of it can be automated with python and selenium
This could be scaled to an unimaginable amount if employed positions. Only limits are that most data entry jobs I have heard of are hourly instead of salary, and then if you have to have meetings you can’t hold as many positions
@@austinfastidio3183 Lol I knew I was not the only one thinking of this, but if they pay by the hour it's not gonna work out.
@@austinfastidio3183 most data entry jobs are really call center type positions. The recruiters just hide it under "Data Entry" to not scare those who are people averse.
@@soolikagsdi wat if u had multiple hourly paid jobs and then just let the scripts run, then you could work multiple hourly jobs and get more per hour
@@awaistasleem Researching this currently
I did this for years. Scaling up and down. As many as 4 jobs at once (very stressful do not recommend). But always at least 2. I keep one salaried for the medical benefits and one corp2corp for straight cash. I've been remote for many year before Covid, before working remotely was on the radar of most developers
Whats corp2corp
@@EzeAsuoha when you have a business and contract directly with another business. It stands for corporation to corporation contract. The 1099 is in the name of your business and not your personal name.
i actually do this regularly if i find a better job lol
i'll just not quit he previous one until they realize that my productivity is dead and im just weighing them down
this is mostly because theyre the same scheduled hours, and the job im leaving is usually remote (MUCH lower pay) and the one im transitioning to is usually on-site (MUCH higher pay), so i really cant be there for both
i'll try remote + remote next time, ty for this video
it's so obvious to try but i felt in the dark about just mass interviewing and accepting all offers, i thought i could really get in trouble with the tax army
It kind of makes sense. Some programmers are just way too fast for their own good and they end up doing work they are not paid for. If you ever worked at environment with 100 or so people you will notice some of them are just superficially fast and if they know their framework they basically just type flawless code. If you are one of those you can either walk around your open office and write code for rookies or you can sign in as a remote engineer for several companies and get paid for your work. I know it's hard to believe for some, but there actually are people capable of flawlessly handling several jobs at the same time and produce above average results. If they work for several companies, it's a win for them, win for an economy, but a loss for one employer, who got lucky and won't pay for a developer that does work done for several people. If you believe people should get paid for the job they do well, then make "overemployed" legal as long as they meet the basic criteria. If you believe faster folks should not be rewarded over their slouching peers and they should help them to maybe become their new incompetent managers that have to ask them how to lead, while they are still stuck down because they lack the soft skills, then such employer can dress in red and move to Russia as a social system rewarding such behaviour is already in place several thousand miles to the east. They will be understood there.
VERY well said. Don't penalize those of us who work faster than others. If you're paying me for the work of ONE person, I will do the work of ONE person. Simple as that, don't ask about my other capabilities if you're not paying me for them. I'm not lucky to have a job in programming, I worked for it. You're lucky to have me, programming is an employee's market, it has been for decades now.
If anything allowing your cultural growth is an obvious horror vacui for the policy making class, I'm sure the society mulling over the finer points of maybe doing communism is going to be polite and amenable to an entirely new type of rich people? Eh...
absolutely true, its astounding to see how fast their brains can work, even if some of the smarter people just eat shit, while other people have to take into account many factors to even get an ounce of the processing power of those powerhouses lol, as for compensation, you are right, they should get rewarded for the work they are doing. If they are capable of delivering the work of multiple people at once, then they should be equally compensated for it.
You're being for your time, not for producing at a certain rate. If you can code better you'll be paid more for your time.
@@centerfield6339 Not on contract work. Which is really the way you're supposed to do this. As an employee with a salary, you're being compensated (unreasonably low) for your time. If you're fast enough to survive without being an employee, a multicompany contractor is the way to go.
I did this but with a lower paying job like working overnight @ Wholefoods and suring the day working as a Web Dev. This overemployment is nothing new...its just new in the salary IT world...I mean freelancers do this all the time...and people who work low wage jobs do this as well.
I feel that 2 Software Dev jobs are ok...start with 1 remote job and get your job down to a T, then get another one...also remote
You said something in here that really puts the nail in the coffin as to why people do this. An employer that wants to output more value than they are paying you. While I understand that nothing makes financial sense if you're only breaking even, down the line somebody is going to get exploited. The customer, the worker, the manager, the owner. The matter of fact is it has never been the owner except for businesses that fail and for the majority of the time it is either the customer or the worker that is being exploited.
You have a new subscriber now. 👍🏾
Of course it is justified! Being financial free is worth living the over-employed dream if we get to a point where our invested money generates enough passive income to cover all our expenses and keep making grow your investment at the same time.
Nice video.
These guys working at multiple jobs into programming and I still can't get a single one.. bruh
Same here man :'c
I dont see it as unethical if youre not letting it hurt each job. I am actually more productive and tend to do better with two jobs. It forces me to be more productive and I focus way more
Thanks for sharing this man. I am impressed because there some many ways to make money, work and live un this world. Here in Latin America you can have maybe 3 Jobs, but the normal ones, part-time jobs, like deliveryman or hairstylist. Or even work like a freelance with your degree. But, this is crazy. I wanna try It.
The flip side of this is whenever I took a lead role and they paid 30-50% higher rates, but made you stick to 40 hours max billable, and gave impossible deadlines that made you work 70-80 hours to achieve it, negating the increased rates. Smarter option is indeed to take roles that are easier, you can do perfectly that are slightly below market rates and meet all milestones, deliverables and objectives and you work 20 hours, but can bill 40 hours.
It’s the same as creating your own startup while you work a full time dev job
Sometimes a man’s gotta do, what a man’s gotta do
Wait until both companies schedule meeting at the same time 😂
I work two jobs. I have my full time job and I'm also building my game studio. When I finish my work for the paid gig, I just swap right over to game studio work. I hope for job two to replace job one some day, since I'll be more in charge of my destiny that way.