Instinctive Or Aiming What's Better?
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- Instinctive Or Aiming What's Better?
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I strictly use the point of my arrow to aim , gap and string walking. It works great but your instinctive technique has one BIG advantage, getting off a quick shot is very often the difference between getting an animal and not. I think instinctive gets the shot off ALOT quicker
So many pros and cons to all styles that I don't think there is a clear winner for everyone. But worth everyone exploring different styles to see what works best for them.
Enjoyed the video Jason. In my travels I have not yet met a person that "aims" a trad bow that can explain how they can consistently "aim" while bow fishing, wing shooting, moving shots or bent at 90 degrees at the waste as you touched on which is very common in spot and stalk and still hunting applications. The natural art of instinctive shooting seems more effective in 20yd and under hunting situations. Traditional bowhunting is a 20yd max endeavor, beyond that it is just 'throwing' arrows, no matter the technique, if the target is ALIVE. Thank you for sharing!!
Very well said. And fantastic examples. Agree 100%
Good video. I m a gapper but focus on my spot. All my aiming happens as I draw with the focus on the spot and the arrow a blur. Works great for me but I do sometimes.....miss.
I never have a crazy shot out of control if I hit anchor that has been my challenge sometimes.
Love watching your shooting videos and how real you are about the different struggles and reality of shooting a longbow.
The late Dan Quillian of Archery Traditions taught instinctive shooting. It turned my shooting around. Thanks for another great video
Thank you. Glad ypu enjoyed it
I have taught plenty of kids and adults to shoot trad bow. I start them with split vision. And once they get their form good then I explain to them instinctive shooting. And let them choose. I have struggled with TP and I reverted to split vision. This is true what you are saying. I have been wanting to go back to instinctive since I switched to a Hill style long bow. This style fits me better, it is so much smoother and it’s so much more natural for me. You helped push me in that direction.
Love that you are teaching kids! And that you are shooting a hill style bow!
What I have found is that if you shoot gap long enough it turns back into instinctive. I think gap helps new shooters or struggling shooters engrain a sight picture if that makes sense. You will get so used to placing the tip of the arrow in the right spot to the point the sight picture and arrow flight gets burned in your mind and it just turns back into instinctive. Thats what has happened to me. I pick a spot and hit the spot paying some attention to my left and right but for the most part my sub 15 yard shots are pure instinctive. Past that I pay a little attention to my arrow. Just another good reason to start shooters on gap. Great video Jason
Great point. I think that's what most people think of when they think of split vision. And agree 100% gap is the best place to start and for many will be the best way they will always shoot.
@@SamkoTradBow I spent most of the season hunting instinctive and killed two. Missed 8 😂 still a good year.
@@EthanPageHunter right there with ya. All part of the game
I appreciate your honesty on this topic. I shot instinctive until I was about 35 years old when my eyes changed to the point where it just stopped working consistently. For the last twelve years I’ve used a blend of instinctive and gap. Still drilling a spot with my eye, but I’m using my arrow as kind of a blurry guide if that makes sense.
So its a sort of split vision shooting... I guess thats what i do too
Yep split vision. And I honestly think that's probably the best of both worlds.
You and Jeff from Instinctive AD Arch have to best videos with explanations of How Too when it comes to UA-cam videos on Trad shooting!!!
Jeff is a great guy and makes amazing videos. Glad you are enjoying both of our channels
My choice is... your spot on..
Glad you enjoyed it.
Good video man. I have started with instinctive but my mess with some other methods this summer
But love the instinctive aspect of it’s magical
It sure is magical. And fun. But its important to try all style to find what works best for you. And that may change from time to time through out the years as well.
My experience is very similar to yours. Shot instinctively for the last 25 years with zero training or good teaching, just all what felt comfortable. The magic of instinctive is so fun. I have really bad target panic now that crept in after not practicing a ton the last 10 years. Been on the journey to become a better archer and get over the target panic. So much good material out there to correct bad form. Jeff Kavanaugh videos, Joel turner, etc. I agree about learning gap when you start too. Guys that figure out gap with a clicker are deadly. I probably will never be able to gap shoot with a clicker but trying gap shooting made me realize my form was really bad. Now my form is getting much better and my instinctive shooting is getting a lot better too. Still on the journey to get better and trying new things makes you shoot terribly in the short run but hopefully in the long run I will come out on the other side able to deal with target panic and be a much better shot.
Very well said. And target panic can be brutal.
I use the Howard Hill split vison/instinctive gap for my archery where I am using a bow in a method of guessing on my Gap keeping arrow in my line of where I want to hit when releasing my arrow. I could also use a Pin sight or a single pin compound sight and do just fine as I have used both in past doing a gap when using said sight.
My Brother is an instinctive Archer, dead accurate. Also, he can use a compound bow or a traditional bow with compound sight in 3 pin and would world class aiming this way. He could also be good when using an old style target pin sight for target archery like some cheap models on Amazon or some models on 3 Rivers. Brother can't really use well now a modern target system and would have to remove the ring around the dot in order to be good from start as he has an issue with how small a modern ring is for target archery.
I use instinctive with traditional bows. Aiming with compound. Moving targets.. instinctive for sure!!
Perfect
Good video. I'm messed up between worlds, sometimes aiming statically with the recurve and instinctive shooting Asiatic thumbdraw. I'm leaning towards asiatic lately because I can move and shoot and getting off more arrows in less time is an advantage especially on small game. Btw, thanks for showing us the colour green.
Nothing wrong with that. Sounds like you have the ability to shoot both ways. Thays pretty awesome
I learned to shoot instinctively. I love it.
It has a magical fun factor to it that is an amazing emotional Rollercoaster 😂
I believe instinctive needs more maintainig, you need to shoot quite regulary to make it work.
On the other hand, instinctive needs no judging distance, which is very important for gap shooting .
Great points
I believe that all shooting is an aiming system. I have mostly shot instinctive most of my bowhunting career. For me what worked was high poundage light arrow. Now I am 59 years old I started dabbling with more controlled shots lighter bows heavier arrows. If something is close I will just point and shoot. I think a guy with a method, gap, string walking, sight pin, etc. Provided they have good technique and can control their nerves will out shoot an instinctive archer. You limit the distance and an instinctive archer will probably have an edge. No instinctive archer will ever win a barebow challenge. If I take the sight off of my gun accuracy will suffer. In a defensive shooting at handshake distance, sights are not probably gonna be used. Everything has pros and cons.
I see your points. I don't necessarily agree with them completely. But I see where you are coming from. I personally believe Instinctive shooting is zero aiming and I personally believe Instinctive shooting is actually the most accurate way to shoot. The best shots I know are all Instinctive. But when nerves get rattled and focus gets lost things can go down hill quick for an Instinctive shooter. If the nerves can be controlled I don't think there is a better way to be more accurate. Again my opinion.
@tradbowpodcast It is not truly instinctive. If it were you would have been able to do it the first time you tried. For years I thought the same as you. You must be able to see your arrow and your target to use it. It truly is subconscious aiming. Another thing that made me believe my subconscious was aiming was the fact that when I practiced in Texas out to 23 yards that same hold would pin wheel and Elk at 30 yards at high altitude. Shooting a bow is a learned skill. Some folks it is more natural. You and me no doubt. Took to it. Walking is instinctive. I don't practice walking. If I don't practice my archery, I am probably gonna make some bad shots.
@tradbowtimewithuncledan2686 that makes sense. But I meant I don't ever look at the arrow. I used to prove this at indoor archery range by turning all the lights off and shooting at a Lazer pen pointed on a target in total darkness. It would gather some pretty big crowds when I did it back in the day. They were amazed. It was just instinctive shooting. All I need is the spit to focus on. That's what I mean by Instinctive shooting.
@tradbowpodcast I have heard of others trying that who had no success Denny Sturgis I believe. I might have to give that a try.
@tradbowtimewithuncledan2686 I have a video on my channel called night shooting or something like that I made last year doing it in total darkness outside at 27 yards. It's a fun experiment
I learned crawls or string walking gaps for 2-18y in my backyard and now I "aim instinctual" I naturally anchor under my chin and i feel like thats a big factor on how our shooting style develops
Spot on. Try it all and find what works best for you.
So very, very difficult to keep on the spot when they have eyes, ears and a propensity to flee!
Very true
The distance when traditional bowhunting is always limited 💯of the time, if that is not understood, you are not a traditional Bowhunter, you are just throwing arrows. I do not recall hearing of Howard Hill losing a bare bow competition.
Very true. 20 yards and under is a common phase for good reason. Many people have proven that anything beyond has too many variables to be reliably accurate in hunting situations. Doesn't matter how good you shoot. Heck it's amazing how fast animals can move on a 10 yard shot let alone 25 or beyond. Keeping shots close is the most important part of the ethical shot process.
i shoot instinctive. always have, recurve, longbow, slingshot, shotgun. i raise up and release or fire, zero thinking and i hit were i want, the minute i think about it, or try aiming or hold on target for more then a second. i miss almost every time. idk, maybe it's genetic, left hand, right hand, dont matter, no dominant eye. i can use both hands equally well. i was explained instinctive shooting by an old guy once. and he sumed it up well. he said. can you point your finger at something? ok, well, your bow or rifle becomes your pointer finger. just point at what you want hit, dont think, just point.and it makes sense the bow or rifle sits right above the pointer finger. but then again i really do think genetics play apart in it.
Instinctive is a beautiful thing. And it frees you from the chains of alignment, sight picture, angles stance etc. But it also has some downsides when you loose or shift focus.
So far a brand new beginner. Do you recommend just taking one shot at a time from different distances every day for a long time for your brain to start to figure it out, or would you start with gap shooting and then after shooting awhile try to switch to instinctive? My goal is to learn instinctive, but not sure the best practice regime to use unless it is just to shoot over and over.
I think learning gap first is a best bet as it builds a solid base and a fall back point for layer experiments with styles. However I would not bounce distances much at first. I would start at 5 yards and shoot until groups are good and tight and sight picture formed. Then move back to 10 and repeat. Then 15 yards etc. All in time and each time you move it will take some more effort to dial in.
I can't lose focus on the spot but I am a split vision shooter. Form back tension and bow hand has to be consistent everytime
Sounds like you have it dialed in. Split vision is probably the best of both worlds.
Great information
Glad ypu enjoyed it
Instinctive is by far better, but takes a great deal more time to develop!
I much prefer instinctive. But I also miss alot😂
It is magic ! An it gets frustrating when people don’t believe that I’m not using the point of the arrow . So now if people ask how I aim I just say gap.😏
yep, I get that all the time too. "there is no such thing as instinctive as you have to see the arrow in your vison" and crap like that. But I know how I shoot..lol
Instinctive vs sights??? Depends. With sights, you can get tighter groups at longer KNOWN distances on still targets. With instinctive shooting, you are capable of accurately hitting the target at variable unknown distances on both still and moving targets with groups tight enough to be effective.
As a child, I used instinctive shooting. Took a while to shrink groups small enough to stay on a bale of hay. After that, progress was steady. Got pretty good. I even harvested a flushed pheasant with an arrow. After a hiatus, I was introduced to sights in college. After a while (naturally), I was shooting 6 inch groups at a measured 55 yards (max available distance). But then I discovered that I was only accurate at known distances. Unknown distances often resulted in big misses. Now, we have a problem. I seem to have lost the instinctive muscle memories. But I decided I was going back to instinctive - so, back to square one and relearning what I had learned as a child. No flushed birds, yet, but it's getting better.
My vote? For me, it is definitely instinctive. But I freely acknowledge the advantages that sights can bring to the game.
Very well said and honestly exactly what the video was ment to address. There is no right way and they all have pros and cons. Do whatever feels best for you
I have been shooting instinctive for forty years. I believe it is a great advantage when hunting; no range finder or estimating distance, not having to re-calculate as animal moves through the hole too quickly, and your focus is just on the animal ( the spot). Many times my arrow is gone before I realize it. Have always had great results at 3D's. but shooting a static targets anyone aiming will most likely make me look not as good. I agree, that I would never shoot aiming again. I think it's sad that most new trad guys or gals don't work on it till it becomes instinctive. Once you get it, it's truly magical as you stated.
Yep the power of shooting instinctive is amazing. It comes with pros and cons as all styles do. But the power of shooting 100% mentality is pretty intense and rewarding
Well said! My experiences are along the same lines. When I shoot instinctive, I can be very accurate, or pretty bad, but I am getting a lot better. I would say however, that I probably tend to maybe be more what I call gap-instinctive as distances increase. Lately, I have changes my target to a blank bale. I am a rancher, so I have access to round bales of hay. That's what I shoot at mostly. I used to paint animal targets on them, etc. but now days, I just shoot at the blank bale. I do focus on a different spot on most every shot. Sometimes it's the middle of the bale, but mostly it's at just a little variation on the bale but I always pick a spot, but that spot might be way off of the bale's center. This helps me focus on a spot on the deer, I believe.
I also stump shoot quite a bit. But anyway, I am about half and half, instinctive/secondary aiming, I suppose. Sometimes if I try to aim too hard, I will miss, but it's also a feel thing for me. I do shoot best if I draw and shoot quickly, or I am moving the bow arm, but if I do too much just static draw and hold, aim and shoot, I have a higher chance of missing.
Sounds like you have a system really dialed in well. And the picking a random spot on a blank bail is one of the best ways to do focus drills. Well done.
I truly, truly wish I could shoot purely instinctive. Tried so many times, but I can’t not see the arrow in my sight line so it’s gap-stinctive for me. Maybe if I shot split finger (also tried it a bunch and no dice) the arrow wouldn’t be in my sight line.
Test
Don't worry, you are not the only one who ist not able to ignore the tip of the arrow. I tried for some years now but never succeded shooting instinctive.
facts, however i prefer aiming for hunting even though i tend to group better instinctive at "unknown" distances, the consistency for me is a larger factor than a lil tighter group. whatever i choose to take into the woods for a given season requires a healthy dose of practice with whichever to be ethical.
Very well said. The healthy dose of practice is vital for all of us and the biggest fun factor of it all. We love to shoot our bows!
This is why i shoot gap, your aware of your Measuring distance and later it becomes instinctive but your arrow becomes a blur and honestly its as deadly as compound shooting when your form through discipline becomes an art of human mechanics. But this hard work and dedication is our high of becoming the arrow, as Byron would say and write a book about and our dedication to master the shot is the art we strive for and for me its deadly from refusing to take a bad shot each and every shot the rest of my life or i will draw the bow down and if my body sais no, then i put the bow away for the day. The movie last Samurai staring Tom Cruise in the seen were the Samurai were practing there archery and working there swords , Tom said he admires there dedication to doing everything as perfect as they can every day the rest of there lives, and this is the dedication we must have for our traditional shooting and for me gap wich becomes instinctive and is magically done through hard work dedications and discipline, Howard Hill shot this way, and are beloved Byron Ferguson whos book becoming the arrow and also Joel Turnner course on mind control, lifts you up too a different level, but more importantly, God loves us Traditional archers when we dedicate all our glory to him of are hard work and gifts too him. We cant accomplish it without he keeps us growing, thank you dear Lord for your kindness 🙏 Amen
Well said!
What’s your opinion on ground hunting. Can it be successful
Sure can. The waldrop pack seat is a great gound hunting seat too. I have a review on it. It doubles as a pack frame and a leaning seat and a self standing seat.
Jennifer Delaney on UA-cam.... no better shooter hands down
I use a little of both l start my draw instinctive but l also check my gap works pretty good for me but l have never shot a deer past 18 yards l know my limitations lol
Yep same here with the 20 and under. Wont shoot any farther
To me, instinctive shooting doesn’t work from a tree. I shoot high every time. Instinctive shooting is so much more enjoyable than GAP shooting and it’s how I shoot from the ground. When I’m hunting deer from a tree I have to GAP shoot to hit them. I hate it because I have to close my left eye and I can’t see that beautiful arrow flying.
Yep shooting high from a stand is common. I shot over the back of 12 deer in 3 years before I finally connected on my first traditional deer from a stand. That's cool you can switch between instinctive and gap like that
Be like Bruce Lee, no reason to not be familiar with all methods. That way you can tailor your shooting style to the specific shooting/hunting situation that you are in.
Agree 100%
Great video. I cock my shoulder up to my jaw so the arms inline more and effectively pushes the bow out like you describe. I aim, three under and line up the arrow from knock to point and lock on. Can fire a shot have a coffee and next shot is the same place.
Very nice
Question about your ASL Bow. Do you have any issues being that the shelf is not cut on center?...and do you have to run different spine arrows, because of it not being cut on center?
Often an asl will require a weaker spine arrow than on that is cut to or past center. I was able to just change point weight when I switched from a r/d longbow to same weight asl bow.
hey Jason, do you shoot with broad heads while shooting targets? I've noticed I shoot quite a bit different while shooting broad heads so is it worth it to just buy an extra set and shoot them?
Yes it's 100% worth practicing with broadheads. I used to do it thru the whole month of September when I lived in michigan. Now that I'm in ga and full all year I get enough broadhead practice shooting live animals. But broadhead practice is vital in my opinion.
What I hate most about those 3 finger under arrow flinging aiming guys is they out shoot me on the 3d range every single time.
Hahaha... Some of those guys sure can shoot.
Instinctive/magical/mystical) (aiming/mechanical)
Agree 100%
You sir are NOT an instinctive shooter. Instinctive shooters NEVER hold a full draw. Once we get to our ancho we simply keep going and unroll our fingers. When you’re holding, you are AIMING. I have been an instinctive shooter all
My life. Just look up the definition of the word. It is something that is a
Natural instinct to someone. It comes
Naturally. It cannot be beat by aiming. Howard Hill, Byron Ferguson and Fred Bear were all instinctive shooters. Just look I’m videos of Howard shooting. He never held the string. As soon as his finger hit the corner of his mouth that string was gone and his hand continued on back to his shoulder. So since you are holding gnat full draw, you are not an instinctive shooter like you think you are. It also CANNOT and taught. Again, refer to the meaning of the word instinctive. It’s born in you. You cannot learn it.
Guess we will have to agree to disagree. I don't hold to aim. I hold to teach myself to hold because animals are always moving and usually have to wait for a shot. Something that drove me crazy when I was a snap shooter. So I purposely taught myself to hold to control when I get the opportunity to release. Holding also allows me to drive the focus on the spot very hard. Snap shooting is a great thing for many. But as a bowhunter that has shot quite a few critters I learned that snap shooting is not the best way for me to fill my freezer.