Great video and very creative solution to your need for supplemental oxygen. I’m a registered respiratory therapist and work for a medical device company, as well as a C172 owner/pilot. Your explanation of the benefits of oxygen at altitude is very good, anyone wanting to dive deeper into the physiology of O2 saturation can search for the term: “oxyhemoglobin dissociation curve” and that will help you understand the dangers of hypoxia. Hope you enjoy more high altitude flying but remember to have a backup O2 source in the event your concentrator goes inop (they’re not built for lots of movement, especially like in an aircraft). 👍✈️🍀
@GingerThePlane Good to see you my friend. I keep hoping to see the San Juan islandss from the air soon. I *do* understand the need to work your arse off to pay for all that fancy new panel stuff, but know that you've got a grounded guy in Oregon who is waiting, eagerly, to watch Ginger spread her wings, I am sorry to the video poster, but I've never seen a canula put on like that. I've only seen it done the first way, This video shows both ways. The first method would likely be more secure in turbulence. I don't know if you can put an old cigarette-lighter receptacle in your EAB, but if you can, they make 12V adaptors for O2 concentrators. Take it with you after you land. ua-cam.com/video/1d1Hj7uuQ0Y/v-deo.htmlsi=lFVyfghVXELQlBCs
@@HugoHugunin I'm wearing the cannula exactly the same way as the second method shown in that video - over my ears and behind my head. I just put it on a bit differently (easier to do in the cockpit).
Many decades ago I used to fly as a passenger in a de Havilland Buffalo over the Andes mountains. The Buffalo is a 30 or 40 passenger non-pressurized aircraft, so we all sucked on oxygen. But if you wanted to go to the restroom, you had to walk to the restroom without oxygen, take a leak, and walk back to your seat. Amazingly nobody ever passed out during this process. The bad part of these flights was that the low pressure allowed for a lot more farts, and some of them are just plain deadly!
As a mountaineer you learn to pressure breath. Exhale hard through pursed lips; it raises the pressure in your lungs and allows efficient transfer of O2
Very good report Scott. I have never considered an O2 concentrator, since my Mountain High system works well for me and it is very inexpensive to maintain, after the initial purchase expense. Your video shows me that I need to look into the concentrator! The huge benefit of your system or mine, is the fuel economy! I have some canard friends that have worked on drag reduction, that I fully support! I have mentioned to them that the biggest fuel economy/efficiency benefit available for them, would be to add O2 and cruise in the teens. Anytime that winds aloft are in favor (or close), and the flight is adequately long, I fly up in the teens. You probably will too, after observing fuel economy.
I used to frequently fly from Van Nuys to Bakersfield. The fast climb to get over Gorman pass at 8,000 feet caused my finger tips to tingle. I certainly made me a believer!
Working for NASA, I had the opportunity to experience hypoxia in an altitude chamber with a few other coworkers several years ago. I noticed that my face felt like it was “buzzing” as the simulated altitude increased. We also got to experience an explosive decompression which immediately filled the chamber with fog. Keep up the good work! Your videos have been the motivation to dig out my long neglected Cozy materials to get ready to start again soon!
Well done. Love the test as well. 5:00 love your "putting the oxygen back on" story! 24:45 TIL about altitude and CHT. I want to see you in the flight levels now, heh.
Another great video. This is not just talking about theoretical performance, reading propaganda performance metrics from a user manual, etc. This is actual first-hand beta-testing with concrete measurements to see what the true real-world performance and experience is and that's what makes the data invaluable. You cant just assume promises from a manual. Every airplane, pilot, O2 device, flying conditions, etc etc is different. Now Scott knows what works for his physiology, aircraft, and supplemental O2 system with absolute precision. No guesswork or "hopes". The one thing you want as a pilot when it comes to flight safety and emergency gear is reliability in your systems and processes. You got a plane to fly. You dont need to be messing around with O2 systems being flaky or not working to desired capability because you never properly tested it.
I agree!! I flew 900 nm today, much of it at 10,500 feet. I was on oxygen for most of it, my passenger said she didn't want to use it. Afterwards, she said, "I am SO tired"...and I wasn't! I pointed out to her the reason why. :)
Hi, a week after watching your video, i bought a second hand concentrator, the G5 with double battery. It is amazing how it changes my flights. I usually fly 1 to 2 hours, at altitudes between 7k and 10k. I used to feel rather fit afterwards but often a little tired. No headaches, no heat in the throat, but... In fact with the O2 concentrator, everything has changed. I am now as fit as i was before taking off, without this bad feeling of, oh god, i have 2 planes to move to put mine behind them. And added to that, for 1½ to 2 hours flights, i don't fear anymore to cruise between 12 and 15k, even with a carburated rotax912. I check my SPO2 with a finger device that sends the data history to my phone and my finger'saturation remains greater than 97% all the time. If i switch the device off, it decreases to 85% in 30 seconds at 12k, and never stops decreasing. After less than 3 breaths, i get back to 97%. Just one issue, it gets sometimes overheated on position 6, and i have to cool it down with fresh outside air. Have to think about it for a better setup. A guy who ferries planes quite often over the ocean told me that above 14k a mask is better. Great advice, and my friends now all want to get one ! Many thanks
You did a great job! A video on this subject could easily be a yawn. Yours was not a yawn by any measure! You kept it very informative and interesting all the way through. Thanks for sharing and the good info.
As thorough as your coverage appears, I'm surprised that you didn't check the technical specs for the POC. The numbers 1 through 6 on the control panel DO NOT equate to 1 to 6 liters per minute! The technical manual for the Inogen One G5 states that the output of 90% (+6/-3) at sea level and 20 degrees (C) is 210 ml per setting. Position 6 delivers 1.26 liters pulsed dose. It's difficult and inexact to equate this to a constant flow, but it's equivalent to about 3 lpm. I'm glad you had a great experience. But it probably because you and your lungs are in good shape. The only reason I know this stuff is that I've been living with idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis (IPF) since 2021. I flew small planes off and on for many years before I got that diagnosis. About a year in to my IPF journey, I noticed that my world would "go grey" upon exertion. After this hypoxic experience, I started using supplemental O2 through a POC (away from home) and a fixed concentrator at home. After a few months, I realized the "6" setting on my POC wasn't working for me - my O2 saturation would drop to the lower- to mid-80's, so I started using "E" tanks when I'm away from home. That's when I checked out the Inogen Technical manual. Two respiratory therapists and a pulmonary nurse practitioner I've worked with were also misinformed about what a setting of "6" meant. Patient advocates have lobbied for better labeling, but the manufactures have thus far prevailed. There's definitely a gap in the respiratory education curriculum. Some manufacturers of POCs advertise that their units can produce more that 1.2 lpm on pulsed dose. But tests have shown that some of these produce as little as 50% O2. Unfortunately, the FDA isn't willing to take on this industry.
Interestingly, I was looking for a solution for flying with our pet African Grey parrot in our 182 over the Rocky mountains. My wife and I use O2 from a portable tank. I came up with this solution, using an O2 concentrator and putting her carry case in an airtight plastic box with a few small holes cut for inserting the tube, but also one on the opposite end to prevent her from suffocating in case the unit fails. I put an O2 percentage monitor inside the box with the carry case, so I can check her ambient O2 at all times. Interestingly, the small concentrator I use, keep the O2 in the plastic container higher than sea level O2, right up to the maximum altitude that I fly (max 16000.00), so it definitely works for this. It will also work for cats, or dogs or any other pet that can be put in the ‘box’ as it were…haha.
I'm not aware of what portable O2 concentrator you are using, but the Inogen model I use to have works on a "pulsed dose". It senses a drop in pressure in the cannula to trigger releases of O2. To trigger, the cannula needs to be in the nostrils of the subject. Just because a concentrator is "on" doesn't indicate it is actually dispensing O2. Have you checked the trigger light while you were using this?
Very interesting. I flew many hours in our Colt at altitudes up to 10,000 feet day and night and never experienced hypoxia that I knew of. The key words there are 'knew of". Surely based on what you have shown here I must have had some effects. I was much younger, but this video was very informative. Thanks for producing it.
I flew into El Paso from Dallas in a light twin on a Very Hot day at about 11k many years ago. I thought everything was fine until I landed on the wrong runway. I was confused and didn't even realize I was confused. I remember the shock of the realization of how impaired I had become. Thankfully, there was no traffic at the time, and the tower let it slide. DENSITY ALTITUDE!!!
Get an oxymeter that goes over your thumb. It runs continuously and vibrates if you get below your set point. An advantage of using a concentrator is there is still some residual moisture delivered whereas bottled O2 has zero.
Great job demonstrating the effectiveness of the oxygen concentrator. I’ve hade the G5 with the 12 hour battery for a couple years and haven’t had the chance to try it in real life high altitude flight. I was wondering if you were going to have a safety pilot but your approach negated that need. Great job providing useful information for pilot safety and cost effective flying.
"Then they die... these things go on the market relatively cheap" OMG... I laughed so hard and felt so bad at the unintentionally dark humor. That's horrible, and yet good advice for shoppers.
As a backup have you thought about carrying a small O2 bottle .?? Things being mechanical you never know when something will fail… enjoy your videos 👍🏼
At the altitudes I fly, I'm not going to lose consciousness should it fail - if it does, I simply descend to where I no longer need oxygen. That said, it is a medical device designed to keep people alive, so it is designed to run 24/7 and NEVER fail.
These look like great devices. I had a built-in O2 system in my Mooney 252, and since I used it quite a lot refilling it was a pain. I would have loved using this system below FL180 and keeping the bottle system for higher flights or as a backup.
I love the 252, I had a friend with one that I flew occasionally. It is the one that unfortunately stall/spun in last month in Florida (long after my friend sold it).
I was flying along with a guy in a Navajo at at 8 or 10,000 ft, and we were discussing oxygen and hypoxia. He hey suggested I take the oxygen mask out and take a couple of hits off of it. I was totally shocked by the change in my vision. Needless to say I never had an issue with using up that expensive oxygen after that.
Very interesting... I have one of these and was told by the company that they don't deliver higher than 10,000 ft. And even at 10k they don't produce the 6 liters. I will start carrying my Inogen in my plane now. I flew from SC to Sebring at, 9500' and my pulse oximeter read 93%. Not good. This was very informative. Thanks!
You can find these and even smaller ones for sale on the Chinese shopping sites, brand new and no prescription required, so I am installing one on my turbo-diesel Quickie Q1, which is still a few months from flying. Thanks for showing how well it works.
I'm not sure I would trust a random Chinese product purchased from an Internet site for a critical flight safety item like this one....it's why I specifically bought the top-of-the-line FDA-approved oxygen concentrator that I did.
I’ve been flying with one of these Oxygen Concentrators here in Australia for about 12 months - in fact I think it’s the identical one to yours but is branded ‘Inogen’ here. Here in Oz, supplemental oxygen is mandatory above 10,000’. Using a splitter works really well and my wife and I fly with this configuration often. You are correct about the battery being depleted relatively quickly when using it at 6 lt/min. For longer trips I will plug it into a freestanding accessory power pack to give plenty more time of operation. I’m not sure what engine / mag setup you are running but once you start to get up in the mid teens of altitude, cross firing of unpressurised mags (especially Slick mags or the smaller Bendix mags) is a distinct possibility. If this occurs it can spoil your day quite quickly. Either pressurised mags or electronic ignition are the safest options.
Thanks, you just answered my question. I was curious if you could connect more than one cannula to the unit. Has that worked well for you , and where did you find the splitter?
Yes, the Inogen One G5 is the model I have. I purchased the splitter through an online medical supply company with some extra cannulas. Obviously, when 2 people are using it, if you have the unit set to 6 lt/min you will be effectively receiving 3 lt/min each. We have found a setting of 4 lt/min maintains high PO2 levels for us, but haven’t yet flown it higher than 12,500’. I’m having electronic ignition fitted next week to replace the Bendix mags on the IO-550N before taking it/ us higher. Like yourself, we regularly check the pulse oximeter to ensure all is well. Everyone’s physiology is different . . .
Just setup a BiPap with mask. Add the concentrator and gain superior adjustment options and backup. I'd look into the concentrator specs since density and cooling could be reliability problems. With the BiPap, its just a fan.
Hi Scott, that's an excellent idea, and your landing here was I think the smoothest touchdown I've seen you do so far! Was that lucky or have you just gotten that good? :D Your remark about thermals actually raised a question for me: have you done any testing to determine what your average glide ratio would be in this airplane?
Thanks! I took some advice from Marc Zeitlin on keeping patterns high and tight, and managing speed on final, and it's definitely made a difference on landing, for sure. I did glide testing when I first got the plane to work out best speeds, yes.
Cool video and I appreciate the scientific testing. This is a fantastic option. Beats the heck out of filling a bottle and keeping track of it's status. I sell, use, and maintain larger oxygen concentrators for the industrial market and it is very cool technology. You do need to ensure you have fresh air coming into the cabin to keep the ambient oxygen levels as high as possible. In a well sealed room the oxygen levels will eventually drop lower than 21% as you consume it and the concentrator purges nitrogen, making it less efficient. Passengers not using the concentrator could experience quite low oxygen levels the longer the concentrator ran. Keep fresh air vents open some and it'll be fine, just something to consider.
One more thing to consider is the O2 carrying capacity of everyone, including passengers. I believe the concentrator can supply enough O2 for 2 people. If someone is anemic or the like, their hemoglobin O2 carrying capacity will be reduced.
Non-pilot here from Namibia, Southern Africa. I really enjoy your videos that you share with us. I'd be interested to know what your plan would be if your plane encountered icing?
To not encounter icing. Today I was flying a long trip, with lots of visible moisture, and forecast icing at 12,000 feet. I maxed out my altitude at 10,500 feet, and watched the OAT closely. Canards do not do well with icing!!
When I was stationed in Korea as a Black Hawk pilot, we would be assigned to Saturday paradrops. There were many military personnel who were skydivers. We would carry them to 14,000. It would take us 5 minutes to reach 14,000. We would be above 12,000 for one minute. We didn't experience hypoxia symptoms.
Especially the inogen concentrator are build for use in planes. There is a company selling special cannula sets for Pilot and two, pilot and pax. They are compliant with FAA rules and have a visible spinning wheel so you can see for both that your system works. For those having a G3x you can by at Aither the O2 monitoring displayed in the G3x including the yellow caution and master warnings If your O2 drops…. The set is not very expansive and makes the use even saver. For an emergency the inogen stops working you can buy small oxygen Bottles for the decent…
I think you would know right away if it quit working. You can feel it pulse air into your nostrils every time you breathe in - if that suddenly stopped, you would know it.
Super cool! Looks like I'll be looking for one to get. I love this knowledge and didn't even think about using something like this. Usually we're taught only about the usual methods to manage O2 and flying. Thanks bunches Scott!
Awesome video. A few weeks ago I bought my OxyGo Next and just found your video. I have yet to try it since i am designing my own flexi boom single sided canula. I have the prototype done and plan to do the same test you just ran in my C182. One thing did you try lower flow rates as I was hoping to not have to be at 6 all the time. If needed I will wire it in to my cigarette lighter.
Really good explanation of some of the symptoms from hypoxia. We are taught about what it is but don't really hear some of the symptoms you can experience...or not "experience".
I can't remember the name but I saw an oxygen purifier device like you have but it was build specifically for aviation. Someday I'll build a velocity and build that and a pulse oximeter into the panel.
I have the Inogen 5 concentrator, I use it in my Piper Aztec. I suspect your battery would last longer if you lowered the setting. Next time you fly at altitude you should test it at lower the settings to see your personal results. In general 2-4 liters per minute is sufficient for altitudes between 10,000-15,000 feet and 4-6 liters between 15,000 and 25,000 feet. Of course once you connect it to ship power then the battery power concern goes away.
@@Pa27pilot i have a G5 with doubbled batterypack , not yet wired to the main bus. I loose around 30% of the battery in 2 hours at position 6, so i expect it to last more than 6 jours before complete battery drain. This is enough for 3 flights without recharging for me. Used in these conditions last week, and works fine. Just think about keeping it cool enough, like your iPad. Take it out the carrybag and let some air flow around it or it will overheat after one hour or so at max setting
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As always, another excellent, interesting, scientific, and educational aviation video. Thanks so much! Seen you wear a Sweetwater Music t-shirt and noticed a LOT of audio/music equipment behind you. Love to hear about you and music sometime. Maybe not what everybody else wants to hear, but I'm interested. I have bought several pieces of music equipment from Sweetwater over the years, including an expensive acoustic guitar. Anyway, obviously more to Scott that meets the eye! Keep up the great videos please!
Hey, thanks for this video. I was wondering how this works with two people? According to the manual it delivers less oxygen per breath if you breath more often per minute. Will it still supply both persons with enough oxygen? Thanks
Hi Cornelia! I've been following your videos for years! It works fairly well for two people. I left it at its highest setting and used a Y splitter for my wife and I. At 12,500 feet, we were both still at 97% saturation. Without oxygen at that altitude I would usually be down to 86-87%.
This is interesting because I was so sure it would never ever work. I have an inogen that my father used for a few months. I was unable to sell it so it sits at my house... My thinking was it wouldn't work because it needs to make the oxygen from the surrounding air, and since at altitude the air is so thin, it wouldn't work because well... the hair is too thin. I don't understand the technical aspects of it, and I don't have a plane capable of going that high, so this was interesting to watch. Guess this proved my theory wrong.
Be careful to not put the concentrator in an enclosed space. The exhausted N2 can be sucked into the intake and the purity can drop. Also , the sieve beds do eventually wear out even when not used as they adsorb moisture from the air and that deactivates the beds over time. The concentrator should alarm when that happens.
Great video! separate from the topic, but, what was your time to climb to 175? Didnt catch any cues on that flight replay showing current time. Thanks!
As a medical device, does that concentrator have an alarm that sounds if it malfunctions? Does it have any dual redundancy, other than going to internal battery if external power fails? (e.g. Dual batteries, dual power supplies, dual pumps/motors, backups for any sensors or electronics involved). Are you going to have any sort of oximeter alarm? What's your planned procedure, if for example the unit stops producing oxygen for some reason? Normally the procedure might be to put your oxygen mask on and then rapidly descend to 10,000ft. That's not a great plan if your only oxygen supply has failed. If you've been on oxygen for an hour or two, (so in no way acclimatised to the altitude) then your oxygen supply fails at 17,500ft, is it a situation where you're going to be doing strange hypoxic things, after a couple of breaths? So making a controlled descent isn't a given. You may have covered all this & I missed it, as I was looking for concentrators on eBay!
It has an alarm if it malfunctions, and you will also know right away, because it will stop pulsing air up your nose every time you take a breath! That said, it is a medical device designed to keep people alive while running 24/7, so malfunctions/failures are exceedingly rare. At the altitudes I would by flying (low to mid teens), you are not at risk of unconsciousness from this failing. You would have plenty of time (and rational thought) to descend down to lower altitudes. It's not like an airliner at 30,000 feet where you need to put on a quick-don mask immediately.
I used this extension hose amzn.to/4cLmuND along with this Y splitter: amzn.to/3Ml2tmr It works on two people, but does not keep your saturation as high: at 9500 feet it kept two of us at 96-97%. Off oxygen I would be below 90 at that altitude - so it works, but you can tell it's not as good as having it all on yourself.
Scott, you are in an interesting position. I'm quite sure that the o2 concentrator has an Rx only label on it. If you are flying with a normal pilots license, you are probably taking a physical exam to renew your FAA medical certificate. Last I saw the form for the medical, you were required to disclose the drugs you are using. Because oxygen is a prescription "drug", I believe you are required to disclose it's use Since you didn't get an Rx, I don't know what the ramifications are. If you have a "friendly"AME, you might ask what to do next. I know that you are flying an experimental aircraft... So, I don't think the lack of a 337 or an STC is a problem.. But I don't know what the medical cert. ramifications are. Having lost my medical, I have been grounded.. I miss flying every time I hear an aircraft fly over, I miss the freedom I once had.
Great video. I did the test in the altitude chamber and just like you said, my mind went completely off-line. I do remember however the bad smell, because we were all farting like crazy 😂
That's a definite advantage for the hypoxia test chambers that add nitrogen to reduce the oxygen concentration! (Rather than by reducing the air pressure).
@@alanm8932 We went up to 25.000 feet. No nitrogen was added. This was back in the early 90's at some air force base in the surroundings of Phoenix. They placed an empty balloon in the chamber, and by the time we got to 25000 feet, that thing was like one foot in diameter. The guy sitting next to me passed out after 30 seconds without oxygen. We had to deduct from 100 by 1 and I never got passed 98. That's how fast it affects your brain. Great experience 🙂
@@Gearlube_chain_wax_solutions Wow, that's pretty dramatic for _just_ 25,000ft. If you can only count 100, 99 and by 98 you're not really performing in any useful manner, then there wouldn't be any chance of descending to a lower altitude if the oxygen concentrator failed at that altitude. About all you could do, in that time, is change to an alternative oxygen source. I wonder what the _critical_ altitude is, where you would get away with not having a backup source of oxygen, if the oxygen concentrator fails?
Great job explaining things and showing what that type unit can do. I noticed that you were still on a CTAF flying up in the teens. it would be better for everyone if you had gotten flight following for that. Northern Ohio is not exactly an air traffic dessert.
Where I was flying was absolutely empty. I didn't see a single other airplane, either visually or on ADS-B! That said, the vast majority of traffic in that area sticks down to below 5,000 feet for the most part.
Enjoy your videos, Scott, thank you. I've used oxygen from a bottle up to 16,500 and found I could maintain 98-100 O2 levels at lower levels of output, usually 1.5 - 3 lpm. Would it be possible to use a lower output level for your unit so the battery isn't consumed so quickly, or is this more an issue of pure O2 (in my case) vs 90% O2 (in your case), if I'm remembering correctly?
It's definitely possible, and yes, on this initial test I was actually expecting it to not supply enough O2 at the top altitude. I will try again in the future with less output as well as with two people on it. I'm not too concerned about the battery life, as I now have it connected to my airplane for power.
Be careful. My company makes oxygen concentrators. They are designed to make 93% USP oxygen at sea level. At 5000’ MSL the concentrator will degrade purity below 90% because of the thinner air and the lower output of the onboard air compressor. PSA technology requires a minimum of 90psi inlet to work. As you go higher, the concentrator purity will further degrade and the compressor may heat up and be a fire hazard. For reference…Aviator breathing oxygen spec is 99.5 or higher and less than .06% humidity. Current concentrator technology cannot produce that onboard
@9:30 my understanding is that the altitude (pressure) is irrevelant to the concentration (ratio) of Oxygen to other gases you breathe (it's the same up or down the air column) but the pressure to get it across the lungs and into the blood is the issue. If you're at 34'000 ft in a 100% pure Oxygen atmosphere, 100% Oxygen is not going to help you (unless you're Reinhold Messner)!
Correct. The ratio does not change with the pressure difference. We are designed to breathe air at containing 21% oxygen at a pressure of around 30 inches Hg. Reduce that pressure, and less of that oxygen gets across the alveoli in our lungs and into our blood. You can compensate by increasing the ratio of oxygen to nitrogen...but when you get to a certain air pressure, that won't work anymore, there's just not enough mass of oxygen there in a sufficient pressure to get pushed into the blood.
The functional requirement is that you're not hypoxic. Some people have to wear masks at 16000, some can wear cannulas to 24000. One size fits all O2 requirements don't make sense. Just have a mask onboard in case you're checked. No one will ever know if you used it. Only your body can tell you when you need to. Based on long term affects to your brain like neural plasticity one might be more inclined to use it.
Hmm, not a fan of that idea. I'd much prefer an ifill device that concentrates oxygen and fills an oxygen tank with high pressure. Easier to use a tank mounted in the aircraft than to drag that bulky thing along, battery and all. A Devilbiss ifill station is more expensive than a concentrator, but I think it's worth it.
A tank mounted in an aircraft weighs 3-4 times as much as this does, and is much larger - even the smallest ones. There's nothing to "lug" along with the concentrator - it can stay in the aircraft.
Thanks for another great vid Scott! Question: Do you think (or have you tested) supplying 2 cannulas with the OxyGo would be sufficient? Perhaps up to a lower altitude.
16:16 coooool way cool, thanks for shareing... paused gunna get some popcorn for the ascend ;) hehhehe did you get one of those ''toss away spare aire cans'' to add a lil somthing extra to the test?? lol even if it is a ''don't waste money on this, this and this.....'' statememnt... lol ''here's the prrooooof!!'' video lol hahah
Interesting how low you were at 8000. Of course most airliners have this as their cabin alt. 787 uses 6000. It’s also worth considering a rapid descent method in case of failure.
Living in Colorado, 5,000 is every day and night. And 7,000 is a day in the foothills. 12,000 is a routine hike and 14k is a minor adventure. Never brought oxy. But flying, even driving above 11,000 (visible tree-line here) gets tiring very fast. I'm at about half capacity after a few hours on the first day above 11k. (33y/o in halfway decent shape).
I have built in unit in my bonanza But have started using the mountain high pulse unit which use only a fraction of the oxygen and keeps % of oxygen up in the high 90%s ( I believe the pulse must force it deeper in to your nose . Plus there is a slight sound when it pluses which I think is a great safety feature My favourite altitude 17k and 18k
- Cool video. The feeling in your neck is probably because of the carotid bodies which are oxygen sensors. The Arteria Carotis goes up from your heart, both on the left and right side of the neck. It splits in an internal and external Carotis Artery at the place where you can feel your pulse in the neck. From there it supplies the head muscles with oxygen, and also the brain which cause the reflexes to hypoxia.
It was great seeing you show us all the impacts. Are you planning to get another 3 units for passengers when flying fully loaded? How do you keep the cannula's clean? If I was guest on a plan with cannulas, I'd want to for sure know they weren't going from someone else's nose into mine..If you did purchase 3 OG units more, what spares would you fly with for backup/redundancy factors? All the best, M-
Cannulas are disposable, you can buy packages of 10 for only a few dollars. And I haven't tried it, but others have tested and found that one unit will supply two people easily.
@@CanardBoulevard I actually read online that one concentrator can supply O2 for up to 5 people. That info needs to be verified, but I believe the source was reliable.
FYI: It was only a few years ago that Oximeters also required a medical prescription to buy -- so the Rx requirement for the generator my finally disappear before too many years
Wonderful device to add for safety. Even when wired into plane's electrical system, with the unit's internal backup battery ( that will need a maintenance charger unless built in), don't you also have a pump of some type in the concentrator that is a point of failure? Would need indicator for that and possible ongoing maintenance? Great video and demonstration.
The battery charges any time it has external power. If anything goes wrong with it and it cannot deliver the oxygen required, it has a very loud alert - plus you would know immediately because you would no longer feel the oxygen being pulsed up your nose!
@@CanardBoulevardcan that demand valve fail closed? Does the valve have an auto/manual selector on it, so you can select continuous feed if it fails closed?
You didn't perform the deep breath technique quite right to work. Take a deep breath through you nose. then purse your lips together and slowly expel your breath forcibly only between your pursed lips, which pressurizes the air in your lungs and promotes the CO2 - O2 exchange. You should feel your cheeks expand if you're doing it correctly. But you have to do this over and over again and it's quite tiring. At ground level you can hyperventilate doing this technique, so be seated while doing this.
I spent a career in the airlines and I never heard of any pilot raising the cabin altitude to put passengers to sleep. Maximum cabin altitudes are usually 8k ft. and they are often at that. You don't need O2 at 5 - 7k ft.
... loss of power ... also, your secondary battery backup battery, would provide some 12 volts to the ''mains'' is that gunna include the wireing for the OXgen or is it gunna be SEPERATE RELAY so when on AUX POWER it defaults OFF (use battery onboard OXgen...) kinda thang?
Very cool, now you know the capabilities of the oxygen concentrator, testing yourself and the air plane to a degree. I say simply, staying out of ice formation on the wings is the only big concern. With the visibility you have, that would be obvious immediately. As you say, how nice it is it to fly above the weather.
Around $2000. Keep in mind that the main expense is the filters, which are consumable - so you may end up spending more on a used one than a new one, depending on how many hours the filters have on them.
I did the chamber at the faa building at Sun n fun couple years ago. WOW. Insane. I’m super sensitive and I felt it immediately. I went down to 67%. I was so intoxicated. Another young guy was blacked out. He was fighting the instructor to put his mask on swearing he was good. After he had no memory of any of it. Another friend of mine when he did it. He went from filling out the problems fine to being passed out. No symptoms. Another friend went color wrong. He didn’t go color blind but the colors he saw were all wrong.
If they’re using nitrogen to displace oxygen, you’re also getting what scuba divers call “narced”. This wouldn’t be the best representation of just hypoxia because there isn’t a higher nitrogen partial pressure at altitude. Seems like they might be using this to exaggerate what is still a very valid point.
@@michaeldipasqua1281 yes it’s done by nitrogen. Simulated FL230. Man. That was insane though. If I was ever in an explosive situation and didn’t have a mask on I would have almost no time. That experience totally opened my eyes about hypoxia and just the use of oxygen in general. If what you’re saying is that real life situation would be even worse then all the more to be smart about it. I was very sensitive to it. And that was only 230.
@@michaeldipasqua1281 ahh. I re read. Your saying that in a real life situation would be less of an impact. But yes the whole point of the booth is so people know what it’s like to go hypoxic. Since everyone reacts differently and many are a symptomatic which I was not for sure. I was fked almost immediately. But it’s to raise awareness so pilots aren’t doing and saying all this crazy stuff not realizing they are hypoxic because that actually does happen. The controllers are good at detecting it and will pry if they feel concerned by the sound of their words I think a second chamber test should be in place that simulates a much lower altitude and have the subjects in for a longer period of time and work through the mild symptoms as they come in. The ones that can drastically effect our flying but not enough to make us aware of it. On longer flights I always monitor my oxygen levels.
@@gtm624 what makes hypoxia very scary is that it doesn’t have quite the narcotic effect that narcosis does which makes it even more difficult to recognize. It really is amazing how delicate the balance is for our bodies to have proper function. I definitely plan on doing the booth next year. Similar to hypoxia, when I learned to deep dive we sat on the bottom in 116’ of water and attempted to write our names over and over. It became surprisingly difficult and was a real eye opener. A simple exercise like this is a good, quick way to judge if you are impaired.
I don't think I would put my life in the hands of some guy on the internet by buying an O2 concentrator from a non authorized seller. There's a lot of fraudulent devices, especially Chinese knockoffs, available for sale on the internet. Just my 2 cents.
I bought it from a legitimate, well-known medical supply retailer here, in person (not online), from a good friend who actually works at that medical supply retailer. So it is not a knockoff.
@@CanardBoulevard Yes, but at what altitude? I suppose something like this has a point of diminishing return in the high teens or low 20s, and two people probably reduce the benefit somewhat.
Based on the comments I get, that's actually frequently the case, and is specifically why I started doing more explanations of what I was talking about.
@@CanardBoulevard I find the explanation is a clue I should watch something else. Canards are only interesting to pilots who fly something else, in my opinion. If you dumb down the video for a child, I, for one am out.
As a medical professional, I was really impressed with your explanation. Well done sir.
Great video and very creative solution to your need for supplemental oxygen. I’m a registered respiratory therapist and work for a medical device company, as well as a C172 owner/pilot. Your explanation of the benefits of oxygen at altitude is very good, anyone wanting to dive deeper into the physiology of O2 saturation can search for the term: “oxyhemoglobin dissociation curve” and that will help you understand the dangers of hypoxia. Hope you enjoy more high altitude flying but remember to have a backup O2 source in the event your concentrator goes inop (they’re not built for lots of movement, especially like in an aircraft). 👍✈️🍀
All good info, but "6" isn't 6lpm. Please read my comment above.
@GingerThePlane Good to see you my friend. I keep hoping to see the San Juan islandss from the air soon. I *do* understand the need to work your arse off to pay for all that fancy new panel stuff, but know that you've got a grounded guy in Oregon who is waiting, eagerly, to watch Ginger spread her wings,
I am sorry to the video poster, but I've never seen a canula put on like that. I've only seen it done the first way, This video shows both ways. The first method would likely be more secure in turbulence. I don't know if you can put an old cigarette-lighter receptacle in your EAB, but if you can, they make 12V adaptors for O2 concentrators. Take it with you after you land.
ua-cam.com/video/1d1Hj7uuQ0Y/v-deo.htmlsi=lFVyfghVXELQlBCs
@@HugoHugunin I'm wearing the cannula exactly the same way as the second method shown in that video - over my ears and behind my head. I just put it on a bit differently (easier to do in the cockpit).
Many decades ago I used to fly as a passenger in a de Havilland Buffalo over the Andes mountains. The Buffalo is a 30 or 40 passenger non-pressurized aircraft, so we all sucked on oxygen. But if you wanted to go to the restroom, you had to walk to the restroom without oxygen, take a leak, and walk back to your seat. Amazingly nobody ever passed out during this process. The bad part of these flights was that the low pressure allowed for a lot more farts, and some of them are just plain deadly!
As a mountaineer you learn to pressure breath. Exhale hard through pursed lips; it raises the pressure in your lungs and allows efficient transfer of O2
Very good report Scott. I have never considered an O2 concentrator, since my Mountain High system works well for me and it is very inexpensive to maintain, after the initial purchase expense. Your video shows me that I need to look into the concentrator! The huge benefit of your system or mine, is the fuel economy! I have some canard friends that have worked on drag reduction, that I fully support! I have mentioned to them that the biggest fuel economy/efficiency benefit available for them, would be to add O2 and cruise in the teens. Anytime that winds aloft are in favor (or close), and the flight is adequately long, I fly up in the teens. You probably will too, after observing fuel economy.
Excellent presentation! This is the first time I have seen a video using an oxygen concentrator. Thanks!
I used to frequently fly from Van Nuys to Bakersfield. The fast climb to get over Gorman pass at 8,000 feet caused my finger tips to tingle. I certainly made me a believer!
Working for NASA, I had the opportunity to experience hypoxia in an altitude chamber with a few other coworkers several years ago. I noticed that my face felt like it was “buzzing” as the simulated altitude increased. We also got to experience an explosive decompression which immediately filled the chamber with fog. Keep up the good work! Your videos have been the motivation to dig out my long neglected Cozy materials to get ready to start again soon!
That's awesome!!!!
Well done. Love the test as well.
5:00 love your "putting the oxygen back on" story!
24:45 TIL about altitude and CHT.
I want to see you in the flight levels now, heh.
Another great video. This is not just talking about theoretical performance, reading propaganda performance metrics from a user manual, etc. This is actual first-hand beta-testing with concrete measurements to see what the true real-world performance and experience is and that's what makes the data invaluable. You cant just assume promises from a manual. Every airplane, pilot, O2 device, flying conditions, etc etc is different. Now Scott knows what works for his physiology, aircraft, and supplemental O2 system with absolute precision. No guesswork or "hopes". The one thing you want as a pilot when it comes to flight safety and emergency gear is reliability in your systems and processes. You got a plane to fly. You dont need to be messing around with O2 systems being flaky or not working to desired capability because you never properly tested it.
Great video. I use oxygen anytime I’m going to be above 7000’ for more than 15 minutes. The difference after a 2 hour fight at 9000’ is night and day.
I agree!! I flew 900 nm today, much of it at 10,500 feet. I was on oxygen for most of it, my passenger said she didn't want to use it. Afterwards, she said, "I am SO tired"...and I wasn't! I pointed out to her the reason why. :)
Hi, a week after watching your video, i bought a second hand concentrator, the G5 with double battery. It is amazing how it changes my flights. I usually fly 1 to 2 hours, at altitudes between 7k and 10k. I used to feel rather fit afterwards but often a little tired. No headaches, no heat in the throat, but... In fact with the O2 concentrator, everything has changed. I am now as fit as i was before taking off, without this bad feeling of, oh god, i have 2 planes to move to put mine behind them.
And added to that, for 1½ to 2 hours flights, i don't fear anymore to cruise between 12 and 15k, even with a carburated rotax912. I check my SPO2 with a finger device that sends the data history to my phone and my finger'saturation remains greater than 97% all the time. If i switch the device off, it decreases to 85% in 30 seconds at 12k, and never stops decreasing. After less than 3 breaths, i get back to 97%. Just one issue, it gets sometimes overheated on position 6, and i have to cool it down with fresh outside air. Have to think about it for a better setup. A guy who ferries planes quite often over the ocean told me that above 14k a mask is better. Great advice, and my friends now all want to get one ! Many thanks
Glad to hear it! Yes, it is really a game changer, and makes you feel so much better and refreshed after the flight!
You did a great job! A video on this subject could easily be a yawn. Yours was not a yawn by any measure! You kept it very informative and interesting all the way through. Thanks for sharing and the good info.
Lots of very interesting information here. Thank you!
Thanks for posting. Will start looking for a unit.
As thorough as your coverage appears, I'm surprised that you didn't check the technical specs for the POC. The numbers 1 through 6 on the control panel DO NOT equate to 1 to 6 liters per minute! The technical manual for the Inogen One G5 states that the output of 90% (+6/-3) at sea level and 20 degrees (C) is 210 ml per setting. Position 6 delivers 1.26 liters pulsed dose. It's difficult and inexact to equate this to a constant flow, but it's equivalent to about 3 lpm. I'm glad you had a great experience. But it probably because you and your lungs are in good shape.
The only reason I know this stuff is that I've been living with idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis (IPF) since 2021. I flew small planes off and on for many years before I got that diagnosis. About a year in to my IPF journey, I noticed that my world would "go grey" upon exertion. After this hypoxic experience, I started using supplemental O2 through a POC (away from home) and a fixed concentrator at home. After a few months, I realized the "6" setting on my POC wasn't working for me - my O2 saturation would drop to the lower- to mid-80's, so I started using "E" tanks when I'm away from home. That's when I checked out the Inogen Technical manual. Two respiratory therapists and a pulmonary nurse practitioner I've worked with were also misinformed about what a setting of "6" meant. Patient advocates have lobbied for better labeling, but the manufactures have thus far prevailed. There's definitely a gap in the respiratory education curriculum.
Some manufacturers of POCs advertise that their units can produce more that 1.2 lpm on pulsed dose. But tests have shown that some of these produce as little as 50% O2. Unfortunately, the FDA isn't willing to take on this industry.
This seems like the ideal solution for GA use. Much easier than refilling oxygen bottles.
This is very helpful to many of us. Thank you for doing the leg work
Awesome content thanks again for an excellent discussion on flying 👍
Interestingly, I was looking for a solution for flying with our pet African Grey parrot in our 182 over the Rocky mountains. My wife and I use O2 from a portable tank. I came up with this solution, using an O2 concentrator and putting her carry case in an airtight plastic box with a few small holes cut for inserting the tube, but also one on the opposite end to prevent her from suffocating in case the unit fails. I put an O2 percentage monitor inside the box with the carry case, so I can check her ambient O2 at all times. Interestingly, the small concentrator I use, keep the O2 in the plastic container higher than sea level O2, right up to the maximum altitude that I fly (max 16000.00), so it definitely works for this. It will also work for cats, or dogs or any other pet that can be put in the ‘box’ as it were…haha.
I'm not aware of what portable O2 concentrator you are using, but the Inogen model I use to have works on a "pulsed dose". It senses a drop in pressure in the cannula to trigger releases of O2. To trigger, the cannula needs to be in the nostrils of the subject. Just because a concentrator is "on" doesn't indicate it is actually dispensing O2. Have you checked the trigger light while you were using this?
Thanks Scott, learned a lot from this, now you will explore the cruise limits of your aircraft!
Very interesting. I flew many hours in our Colt at altitudes up to 10,000 feet day and night and never experienced hypoxia that I knew of. The key words there are 'knew of". Surely based on what you have shown here I must have had some effects. I was much younger, but this video was very informative. Thanks for producing it.
I flew into El Paso from Dallas in a light twin on a Very Hot day at about 11k many years ago. I thought everything was fine until I landed on the wrong runway. I was confused and didn't even realize I was confused. I remember the shock of the realization of how impaired I had become. Thankfully, there was no traffic at the time, and the tower let it slide.
DENSITY ALTITUDE!!!
I’ve had the same unit that I picked up on FBM a few years ago and use in in my RV8 with my bride. It works great.
How much?
Get an oxymeter that goes over your thumb. It runs continuously and vibrates if you get below your set point. An advantage of using a concentrator is there is still some residual moisture delivered whereas bottled O2 has zero.
Excellent observation, I'll check these out further. Oxy is just dry!😮
Wow! I had no idea of the effects.
Really good video, looks like the new runway is much better!
And now we have a dedicated aviation oxygen concentrator available as both portable or built in systems, with bio- feedback made by Aithre O2 systems.
Great job demonstrating the effectiveness of the oxygen concentrator. I’ve hade the G5 with the 12 hour battery for a couple years and haven’t had the chance to try it in real life high altitude flight. I was wondering if you were going to have a safety pilot but your approach negated that need. Great job providing useful information for pilot safety and cost effective flying.
OxyGo is a rebranded G5. Same device.
@@rnordquest I heard that mentioned in the video
"Then they die... these things go on the market relatively cheap" OMG... I laughed so hard and felt so bad at the unintentionally dark humor. That's horrible, and yet good advice for shoppers.
As a backup have you thought about carrying a small O2 bottle .?? Things being mechanical you never know when something will fail… enjoy your videos 👍🏼
At the altitudes I fly, I'm not going to lose consciousness should it fail - if it does, I simply descend to where I no longer need oxygen. That said, it is a medical device designed to keep people alive, so it is designed to run 24/7 and NEVER fail.
Excellent channel!
We love you and appreciate all that you do!
These look like great devices. I had a built-in O2 system in my Mooney 252, and since I used it quite a lot refilling it was a pain. I would have loved using this system below FL180 and keeping the bottle system for higher flights or as a backup.
I love the 252, I had a friend with one that I flew occasionally. It is the one that unfortunately stall/spun in last month in Florida (long after my friend sold it).
I was flying along with a guy in a Navajo at at 8 or 10,000 ft, and we were discussing oxygen and hypoxia. He hey suggested I take the oxygen mask out and take a couple of hits off of it. I was totally shocked by the change in my vision. Needless to say I never had an issue with using up that expensive oxygen after that.
Very interesting... I have one of these and was told by the company that they don't deliver higher than 10,000 ft. And even at 10k they don't produce the 6 liters. I will start carrying my Inogen in my plane now. I flew from SC to Sebring at, 9500' and my pulse oximeter read 93%. Not good. This was very informative. Thanks!
I've used it at 9500 feet on setting six for both my wife and myself with a "Y" connector to two cannulas, and it kept us both at 97% saturation.
You can find these and even smaller ones for sale on the Chinese shopping sites, brand new and no prescription required, so I am installing one on my turbo-diesel Quickie Q1, which is still a few months from flying. Thanks for showing how well it works.
I'm not sure I would trust a random Chinese product purchased from an Internet site for a critical flight safety item like this one....it's why I specifically bought the top-of-the-line FDA-approved oxygen concentrator that I did.
Good point, but this appears to be THE SAME UNIT YOU HAVE. Was yours built in the USA?
I’ve been flying with one of these Oxygen Concentrators here in Australia for about 12 months - in fact I think it’s the identical one to yours but is branded ‘Inogen’ here. Here in Oz, supplemental oxygen is mandatory above 10,000’.
Using a splitter works really well and my wife and I fly with this configuration often. You are correct about the battery being depleted relatively quickly when using it at 6 lt/min. For longer trips I will plug it into a freestanding accessory power pack to give plenty more time of operation.
I’m not sure what engine / mag setup you are running but once you start to get up in the mid teens of altitude, cross firing of unpressurised mags (especially Slick mags or the smaller Bendix mags) is a distinct possibility. If this occurs it can spoil your day quite quickly. Either pressurised mags or electronic ignition are the safest options.
Thanks, you just answered my question. I was curious if you could connect more than one cannula to the unit. Has that worked well for you , and where did you find the splitter?
The unit I show is identical to the Inogen One G5.
I have one electronic ignition and one non-pressurized Slick mag...for now.
Yes, the Inogen One G5 is the model I have.
I purchased the splitter through an online medical supply company with some extra cannulas.
Obviously, when 2 people are using it, if you have the unit set to 6 lt/min you will be effectively receiving 3 lt/min each. We have found a setting of 4 lt/min maintains high PO2 levels for us, but haven’t yet flown it higher than 12,500’. I’m having electronic ignition fitted next week to replace the Bendix mags on the IO-550N before taking it/ us higher.
Like yourself, we regularly check the pulse oximeter to ensure all is well. Everyone’s physiology is different . . .
I heard a while back that O2 is cheaper than fuel. That stuck with me. Now to finish my Cozy...
Just setup a BiPap with mask. Add the concentrator and gain superior adjustment options and backup. I'd look into the concentrator specs since density and cooling could be reliability problems. With the BiPap, its just a fan.
Hi Scott, that's an excellent idea, and your landing here was I think the smoothest touchdown I've seen you do so far! Was that lucky or have you just gotten that good? :D
Your remark about thermals actually raised a question for me: have you done any testing to determine what your average glide ratio would be in this airplane?
Thanks! I took some advice from Marc Zeitlin on keeping patterns high and tight, and managing speed on final, and it's definitely made a difference on landing, for sure.
I did glide testing when I first got the plane to work out best speeds, yes.
@@CanardBoulevard so, what is the ratio and best glide speed?
Cool video and I appreciate the scientific testing. This is a fantastic option. Beats the heck out of filling a bottle and keeping track of it's status. I sell, use, and maintain larger oxygen concentrators for the industrial market and it is very cool technology. You do need to ensure you have fresh air coming into the cabin to keep the ambient oxygen levels as high as possible. In a well sealed room the oxygen levels will eventually drop lower than 21% as you consume it and the concentrator purges nitrogen, making it less efficient. Passengers not using the concentrator could experience quite low oxygen levels the longer the concentrator ran. Keep fresh air vents open some and it'll be fine, just something to consider.
One more thing to consider is the O2 carrying capacity of everyone, including passengers. I believe the concentrator can supply enough O2 for 2 people. If someone is anemic or the like, their hemoglobin O2 carrying capacity will be reduced.
Correct. I haven't tested it for two people yet, but I do have a splitter, and I have read that other people have used it for two people with success.
Scott, great video, very informative. Thanks for sharing your experience. 😎
Non-pilot here from Namibia, Southern Africa. I really enjoy your videos that you share with us. I'd be interested to know what your plan would be if your plane encountered icing?
To not encounter icing. Today I was flying a long trip, with lots of visible moisture, and forecast icing at 12,000 feet. I maxed out my altitude at 10,500 feet, and watched the OAT closely. Canards do not do well with icing!!
When I was stationed in Korea as a Black Hawk pilot, we would be assigned to Saturday paradrops. There were many military personnel who were skydivers. We would carry them to 14,000. It would take us 5 minutes to reach 14,000. We would be above 12,000 for one minute. We didn't experience hypoxia symptoms.
Was flying around and stopped at Medina, but no canard flying around. Maybe next time :)
Especially the inogen concentrator are build for use in planes. There is a company selling special cannula sets for Pilot and two, pilot and pax. They are compliant with FAA rules and have a visible spinning wheel so you can see for both that your system works. For those having a G3x you can by at Aither the O2 monitoring displayed in the G3x including the yellow caution and master warnings If your O2 drops…. The set is not very expansive and makes the use even saver. For an emergency the inogen stops working you can buy small oxygen Bottles for the decent…
I think you would know right away if it quit working. You can feel it pulse air into your nostrils every time you breathe in - if that suddenly stopped, you would know it.
Super cool! Looks like I'll be looking for one to get. I love this knowledge and didn't even think about using something like this. Usually we're taught only about the usual methods to manage O2 and flying. Thanks bunches Scott!
Awesome video. A few weeks ago I bought my OxyGo Next and just found your video. I have yet to try it since i am designing my own flexi boom single sided canula. I have the prototype done and plan to do the same test you just ran in my C182. One thing did you try lower flow rates as I was hoping to not have to be at 6 all the time. If needed I will wire it in to my cigarette lighter.
I plan to do that test, asking with a test with it supplying two people as well
Really good explanation of some of the symptoms from hypoxia. We are taught about what it is but don't really hear some of the symptoms you can experience...or not "experience".
I can't remember the name but I saw an oxygen purifier device like you have but it was build specifically for aviation. Someday I'll build a velocity and build that and a pulse oximeter into the panel.
I have the Inogen 5 concentrator, I use it in my Piper Aztec. I suspect your battery would last longer if you lowered the setting. Next time you fly at altitude you should test it at lower the settings to see your personal results. In general 2-4 liters per minute is sufficient for altitudes between 10,000-15,000 feet and 4-6 liters between 15,000 and 25,000 feet. Of course once you connect it to ship power then the battery power concern goes away.
I plan to test this!
@@Pa27pilot i have a G5 with doubbled batterypack , not yet wired to the main bus. I loose around 30% of the battery in 2 hours at position 6, so i expect it to last more than 6 jours before complete battery drain. This is enough for 3 flights without recharging for me. Used in these conditions last week, and works fine. Just think about keeping it cool enough, like your iPad. Take it out the carrybag and let some air flow around it or it will overheat after one hour or so at max setting
As always, another excellent, interesting, scientific, and educational aviation video. Thanks so much! Seen you wear a Sweetwater Music t-shirt and noticed a LOT of audio/music equipment behind you. Love to hear about you and music sometime. Maybe not what everybody else wants to hear, but I'm interested. I have bought several pieces of music equipment from Sweetwater over the years, including an expensive acoustic guitar. Anyway, obviously more to Scott that meets the eye! Keep up the great videos please!
I have a whole channel dedicated to it: ua-cam.com/users/ScottsSynthStuff
Hey, thanks for this video. I was wondering how this works with two people? According to the manual it delivers less oxygen per breath if you breath more often per minute. Will it still supply both persons with enough oxygen? Thanks
Hi Cornelia! I've been following your videos for years! It works fairly well for two people. I left it at its highest setting and used a Y splitter for my wife and I. At 12,500 feet, we were both still at 97% saturation. Without oxygen at that altitude I would usually be down to 86-87%.
i learned alot. there are things i didn't know some of these things about oxygen.
This is interesting because I was so sure it would never ever work. I have an inogen that my father used for a few months. I was unable to sell it so it sits at my house... My thinking was it wouldn't work because it needs to make the oxygen from the surrounding air, and since at altitude the air is so thin, it wouldn't work because well... the hair is too thin. I don't understand the technical aspects of it, and I don't have a plane capable of going that high, so this was interesting to watch. Guess this proved my theory wrong.
Be careful to not put the concentrator in an enclosed space. The exhausted N2 can be sucked into the intake and the purity can drop. Also , the sieve beds do eventually wear out even when not used as they adsorb moisture from the air and that deactivates the beds over time. The concentrator should alarm when that happens.
That area is not actually enclosed, it's open to the rear of the plane, and air flows through there from the front. That's why I chose it.
@@CanardBoulevardgood to hear. That wasn’t obvious in the picture.
Great video! separate from the topic, but, what was your time to climb to 175? Didnt catch any cues on that flight replay showing current time. Thanks!
It was about 30 minutes or so.
As a medical device, does that concentrator have an alarm that sounds if it malfunctions?
Does it have any dual redundancy, other than going to internal battery if external power fails? (e.g. Dual batteries, dual power supplies, dual pumps/motors, backups for any sensors or electronics involved).
Are you going to have any sort of oximeter alarm?
What's your planned procedure, if for example the unit stops producing oxygen for some reason?
Normally the procedure might be to put your oxygen mask on and then rapidly descend to 10,000ft. That's not a great plan if your only oxygen supply has failed.
If you've been on oxygen for an hour or two, (so in no way acclimatised to the altitude) then your oxygen supply fails at 17,500ft, is it a situation where you're going to be doing strange hypoxic things, after a couple of breaths? So making a controlled descent isn't a given.
You may have covered all this & I missed it, as I was looking for concentrators on eBay!
It has an alarm if it malfunctions, and you will also know right away, because it will stop pulsing air up your nose every time you take a breath! That said, it is a medical device designed to keep people alive while running 24/7, so malfunctions/failures are exceedingly rare.
At the altitudes I would by flying (low to mid teens), you are not at risk of unconsciousness from this failing. You would have plenty of time (and rational thought) to descend down to lower altitudes. It's not like an airliner at 30,000 feet where you need to put on a quick-don mask immediately.
Please let us know how well it works with the splitter. Which splitter did you use?
I used this extension hose amzn.to/4cLmuND along with this Y splitter: amzn.to/3Ml2tmr
It works on two people, but does not keep your saturation as high: at 9500 feet it kept two of us at 96-97%. Off oxygen I would be below 90 at that altitude - so it works, but you can tell it's not as good as having it all on yourself.
Scott, you are in an interesting position.
I'm quite sure that the o2 concentrator has an Rx only label on it.
If you are flying with a normal pilots license, you are probably taking a physical exam to renew your FAA medical certificate.
Last I saw the form for the medical, you were required to disclose the drugs you are using.
Because oxygen is a prescription "drug", I believe you are required to disclose it's use
Since you didn't get an Rx, I don't know what the ramifications are.
If you have a "friendly"AME, you might ask what to do next.
I know that you are flying an experimental aircraft... So, I don't think the lack of a 337 or an STC is a problem..
But I don't know what the medical cert. ramifications are.
Having lost my medical, I have been grounded.. I miss flying every time I hear an aircraft fly over, I miss the freedom I once had.
I also understand that this can be used by two people per devise. I have seen several folks with 4 seat planes that carry two devises for all 4 people
I have heard the same, I have a splitter, and I'm going to try this out soon.
@@CanardBoulevardstocking up on oximeters too?
Great video. I did the test in the altitude chamber and just like you said, my mind went completely off-line. I do remember however the bad smell, because we were all farting like crazy 😂
That's a definite advantage for the hypoxia test chambers that add nitrogen to reduce the oxygen concentration! (Rather than by reducing the air pressure).
@@alanm8932 We went up to 25.000 feet. No nitrogen was added. This was back in the early 90's at some air force base in the surroundings of Phoenix. They placed an empty balloon in the chamber, and by the time we got to 25000 feet, that thing was like one foot in diameter. The guy sitting next to me passed out after 30 seconds without oxygen. We had to deduct from 100 by 1 and I never got passed 98. That's how fast it affects your brain. Great experience 🙂
@@Gearlube_chain_wax_solutions
Wow, that's pretty dramatic for _just_ 25,000ft.
If you can only count 100, 99 and by 98 you're not really performing in any useful manner, then there wouldn't be any chance of descending to a lower altitude if the oxygen concentrator failed at that altitude.
About all you could do, in that time, is change to an alternative oxygen source.
I wonder what the _critical_ altitude is, where you would get away with not having a backup source of oxygen, if the oxygen concentrator fails?
Great job explaining things and showing what that type unit can do. I noticed that you were still on a CTAF flying up in the teens. it would be better for everyone if you had gotten flight following for that. Northern Ohio is not exactly an air traffic dessert.
Where I was flying was absolutely empty. I didn't see a single other airplane, either visually or on ADS-B! That said, the vast majority of traffic in that area sticks down to below 5,000 feet for the most part.
Problem is that the FDA requires a prescription to buy one of these.
Enjoy your videos, Scott, thank you. I've used oxygen from a bottle up to 16,500 and found I could maintain 98-100 O2 levels at lower levels of output, usually 1.5 - 3 lpm. Would it be possible to use a lower output level for your unit so the battery isn't consumed so quickly, or is this more an issue of pure O2 (in my case) vs 90% O2 (in your case), if I'm remembering correctly?
Yeah you can set it to less. He just didn’t want to introduce a variable (my guess).
It's definitely possible, and yes, on this initial test I was actually expecting it to not supply enough O2 at the top altitude. I will try again in the future with less output as well as with two people on it. I'm not too concerned about the battery life, as I now have it connected to my airplane for power.
Sorry if I missed it but did you say what the amp draw of your unit is?
I've used it for many hours in flight now, and it sits right at about 6 amps power draw at its maximum setting.
Be careful. My company makes oxygen concentrators. They are designed to make 93% USP oxygen at sea level. At 5000’ MSL the concentrator will degrade purity below 90% because of the thinner air and the lower output of the onboard air compressor. PSA technology requires a minimum of 90psi inlet to work.
As you go higher, the concentrator purity will further degrade and the compressor may heat up and be a fire hazard.
For reference…Aviator breathing oxygen spec is 99.5 or higher and less than .06% humidity. Current concentrator technology cannot produce that onboard
Great video. Is this concentrator only good for one person?
I haven't tested it for two people yet, but I do have a splitter, and I have read that other people have used it for two people with success.
How much?
@9:30 my understanding is that the altitude (pressure) is irrevelant to the concentration (ratio) of Oxygen to other gases you breathe (it's the same up or down the air column) but the pressure to get it across the lungs and into the blood is the issue. If you're at 34'000 ft in a 100% pure Oxygen atmosphere, 100% Oxygen is not going to help you (unless you're Reinhold Messner)!
Correct. The ratio does not change with the pressure difference. We are designed to breathe air at containing 21% oxygen at a pressure of around 30 inches Hg. Reduce that pressure, and less of that oxygen gets across the alveoli in our lungs and into our blood. You can compensate by increasing the ratio of oxygen to nitrogen...but when you get to a certain air pressure, that won't work anymore, there's just not enough mass of oxygen there in a sufficient pressure to get pushed into the blood.
Does this device meet the FAA requirements for supplemental oxygen? Is there an altitude limit above which it cannot be used to meet this requirement?
The functional requirement is that you're not hypoxic. Some people have to wear masks at 16000, some can wear cannulas to 24000. One size fits all O2 requirements don't make sense. Just have a mask onboard in case you're checked. No one will ever know if you used it. Only your body can tell you when you need to. Based on long term affects to your brain like neural plasticity one might be more inclined to use it.
I specifically answer these questions in the video.
Hmm, not a fan of that idea. I'd much prefer an ifill device that concentrates oxygen and fills an oxygen tank with high pressure. Easier to use a tank mounted in the aircraft than to drag that bulky thing along, battery and all. A Devilbiss ifill station is more expensive than a concentrator, but I think it's worth it.
A tank mounted in an aircraft weighs 3-4 times as much as this does, and is much larger - even the smallest ones. There's nothing to "lug" along with the concentrator - it can stay in the aircraft.
@@CanardBoulevard My tank is aluminum, not heavy at all. I prefer to use that. Plus it's silent. That concentrator makes noise.
Thanks for another great vid Scott! Question: Do you think (or have you tested) supplying 2 cannulas with the OxyGo would be sufficient? Perhaps up to a lower altitude.
People are doing this already and it apparently works. I have a splitter to allow two cannulas so I'm going to test it out.
Don't know if there's enough oxygen to concentrate at altitude? I would tread lightly....
Did you not watch the video where I actually tested it?
16:16 coooool way cool, thanks for shareing... paused gunna get some popcorn for the ascend ;) hehhehe
did you get one of those ''toss away spare aire cans'' to add a lil somthing extra to the test?? lol even if it is a ''don't waste money on this, this and this.....'' statememnt... lol ''here's the prrooooof!!'' video lol hahah
I've tried one of those cans before. It raises your O2 saturation for about 10-15 seconds, that's it. Total waste of money.
Interesting how low you were at 8000. Of course most airliners have this as their cabin alt. 787 uses 6000. It’s also worth considering a rapid descent method in case of failure.
Living in Colorado, 5,000 is every day and night. And 7,000 is a day in the foothills. 12,000 is a routine hike and 14k is a minor adventure. Never brought oxy.
But flying, even driving above 11,000 (visible tree-line here) gets tiring very fast. I'm at about half capacity after a few hours on the first day above 11k. (33y/o in halfway decent shape).
well, airplane prices and medical prices, so, they can't lose. just have to ramp up production.
I did this exact same test but with a cheaper model. It didn't work, be careful out there.
I have built in unit in my bonanza
But have started using the mountain high pulse unit which use only a fraction of the oxygen and keeps % of oxygen up in the high 90%s ( I believe the pulse must force it deeper in to your nose . Plus there is a slight sound when it pluses which I think is a great safety feature
My favourite altitude 17k and 18k
This device also pulses, so you would definitely know if it stopped working!
- Cool video. The feeling in your neck is probably because of the carotid bodies which are oxygen sensors. The Arteria Carotis goes up from your heart, both on the left and right side of the neck. It splits in an internal and external Carotis Artery at the place where you can feel your pulse in the neck. From there it supplies the head muscles with oxygen, and also the brain which cause the reflexes to hypoxia.
I actually found this out a few days ago (I have a friend who is a paramedic). Really interesting, I didn't know this before!
It was great seeing you show us all the impacts. Are you planning to get another 3 units for passengers when flying fully loaded? How do you keep the cannula's clean? If I was guest on a plan with cannulas, I'd want to for sure know they weren't going from someone else's nose into mine..If you did purchase 3 OG units more, what spares would you fly with for backup/redundancy factors?
All the best,
M-
@@morgananderson9647 one unit will handle two people
Cannulas are disposable, you can buy packages of 10 for only a few dollars. And I haven't tried it, but others have tested and found that one unit will supply two people easily.
@@CanardBoulevard
I actually read online that one concentrator can supply O2 for up to 5 people. That info needs to be verified, but I believe the source was reliable.
How much does it weigh
5 lbs with battery attached.
@@CanardBoulevardDo you happen to know how that weight compares with an oxygen bottle & regulator & mounting bracket, that you might have opted for?
FYI: It was only a few years ago that Oximeters also required a medical prescription to buy -- so the Rx requirement for the generator my finally disappear before too many years
Wonderful device to add for safety. Even when wired into plane's electrical system, with the unit's internal backup battery ( that will need a maintenance charger unless built in), don't you also have a pump of some type in the concentrator that is a point of failure? Would need indicator for that and possible ongoing maintenance? Great video and demonstration.
The battery charges any time it has external power. If anything goes wrong with it and it cannot deliver the oxygen required, it has a very loud alert - plus you would know immediately because you would no longer feel the oxygen being pulsed up your nose!
@@CanardBoulevardcan that demand valve fail closed?
Does the valve have an auto/manual selector on it, so you can select continuous feed if it fails closed?
You didn't perform the deep breath technique quite right to work. Take a deep breath through you nose. then purse your lips together and slowly expel your breath forcibly only between your pursed lips, which pressurizes the air in your lungs and promotes the CO2 - O2 exchange. You should feel your cheeks expand if you're doing it correctly. But you have to do this over and over again and it's quite tiring. At ground level you can hyperventilate doing this technique, so be seated while doing this.
I spent a career in the airlines and I never heard of any pilot raising the cabin altitude to put passengers to sleep. Maximum cabin altitudes are usually 8k ft. and they are often at that. You don't need O2 at 5 - 7k ft.
You need to talk to some bush pilots. :) I doubt you'd hear about it done on an airliner.
... loss of power ... also, your secondary battery backup battery, would provide some 12 volts to the ''mains'' is that gunna include the wireing for the OXgen or is it gunna be SEPERATE RELAY so when on AUX POWER it defaults OFF (use battery onboard OXgen...) kinda thang?
No, my backup battery powers the EFIS and EIS exclusively. If I lose power, the O2 concentrator uses its internal battery only.
How did your new heating system work ?
Great!! Lots of heat, I actually used it earlier today as I was up pretty high flying a 900 NM trip.
Very cool, now you know the capabilities of the oxygen concentrator, testing yourself and the air plane to a degree. I say simply, staying out of ice formation on the wings is the only big concern. With the visibility you have, that would be obvious immediately. As you say, how nice it is it to fly above the weather.
Maybe time for a parachute, if it turns into a lawn dart with a bit of ice?!
@@alanm8932 uhhh, not sure I'd want to jump out with that prop right in front, think I'd look for another alternative. 🙂
@@billwilliams9527 you're right, bailing out isn't a great option with the rear engine.
@@alanm8932 Whoopsie!
What about pax? Does that concentrator have the ability to manage two canulas?
I haven't tested it yet, but others have and said it easily supplies enough for two people, so I will give it a test.
Seeing these for 1000-1500 used. How much are they new?
Around $2000. Keep in mind that the main expense is the filters, which are consumable - so you may end up spending more on a used one than a new one, depending on how many hours the filters have on them.
I did the chamber at the faa building at Sun n fun couple years ago. WOW. Insane. I’m super sensitive and I felt it immediately. I went down to 67%. I was so intoxicated.
Another young guy was blacked out. He was fighting the instructor to put his mask on swearing he was good. After he had no memory of any of it.
Another friend of mine when he did it. He went from filling out the problems fine to being passed out. No symptoms.
Another friend went color wrong. He didn’t go color blind but the colors he saw were all wrong.
If they’re using nitrogen to displace oxygen, you’re also getting what scuba divers call “narced”. This wouldn’t be the best representation of just hypoxia because there isn’t a higher nitrogen partial pressure at altitude. Seems like they might be using this to exaggerate what is still a very valid point.
@@michaeldipasqua1281 yes it’s done by nitrogen. Simulated FL230. Man. That was insane though. If I was ever in an explosive situation and didn’t have a mask on I would have almost no time. That experience totally opened my eyes about hypoxia and just the use of oxygen in general.
If what you’re saying is that real life situation would be even worse then all the more to be smart about it.
I was very sensitive to it. And that was only 230.
@@michaeldipasqua1281 ahh. I re read. Your saying that in a real life situation would be less of an impact. But yes the whole point of the booth is so people know what it’s like to go hypoxic. Since everyone reacts differently and many are a symptomatic which I was not for sure. I was fked almost immediately.
But it’s to raise awareness so pilots aren’t doing and saying all this crazy stuff not realizing they are hypoxic because that actually does happen. The controllers are good at detecting it and will pry if they feel concerned by the sound of their words
I think a second chamber test should be in place that simulates a much lower altitude and have the subjects in for a longer period of time and work through the mild symptoms as they come in. The ones that can drastically effect our flying but not enough to make us aware of it.
On longer flights I always monitor my oxygen levels.
@@gtm624 what makes hypoxia very scary is that it doesn’t have quite the narcotic effect that narcosis does which makes it even more difficult to recognize. It really is amazing how delicate the balance is for our bodies to have proper function. I definitely plan on doing the booth next year.
Similar to hypoxia, when I learned to deep dive we sat on the bottom in 116’ of water and attempted to write our names over and over. It became surprisingly difficult and was a real eye opener. A simple exercise like this is a good, quick way to judge if you are impaired.
Read the instructions... Oxygen concentrators are not designed to work above 10,000 feet. I have an Engen.
And yet....they do just fine.
I don't think I would put my life in the hands of some guy on the internet by buying an O2 concentrator from a non authorized seller. There's a lot of fraudulent devices, especially Chinese knockoffs, available for sale on the internet. Just my 2 cents.
I bought it from a legitimate, well-known medical supply retailer here, in person (not online), from a good friend who actually works at that medical supply retailer. So it is not a knockoff.
Good Video. I have COPD and I use a can of Boost Oxygen when I need oxygen. Check it out.
Rio Grande Jewelry supply sells Oxy concentrator systems ...Used by silversmith and jewelry makers
Shit starts going wrong for me at about 18%.
So now you will have to buy one for your #01 passenger.
Actually, from what I have read from others who have used them, one unit will supply enough O2 for two people. I haven't tested it yet however.
@@CanardBoulevard
Yes, but at what altitude? I suppose something like this has a point of diminishing return in the high teens or low 20s, and two people probably reduce the benefit somewhat.
I love how he thinks non-pilots are watching his channel.
Based on the comments I get, that's actually frequently the case, and is specifically why I started doing more explanations of what I was talking about.
@@CanardBoulevard I find the explanation is a clue I should watch something else. Canards are only interesting to pilots who fly something else, in my opinion. If you dumb down the video for a child, I, for one am out.
@@CanardBoulevard
Great video. Don't listen to McFly. There's one in every crowd.