Some of the best explanations of caster and camber that ive seen online. I have a 2011 ram 1500 with new inner and outer tie rods. Took it to a shop and now my camber is .4 on one side and .9 on another. Steering is off and it pulls like never before. They claimed my one side steering knuckle wont allow adjustment of the camber, no real explanation. Said i might need a special upper ball joint installed to set the camber on the driver side.Went back and it has only improved a bit. This information will help me either work on it myself better or make me more aware of what they are doing at another shop. I want the camber more equal at least. Ive never had issues before. Thank you very much for sharing the knowledge!
@ryanv7195 you have a couple options for that. If the one side is maxed out (or undajustable for whatever reason) you could move the other side to match even if it's moving it further out of spec. A lot of techs are kind of mentally lazy and think they just make things green and don't really understand. A good tech will address your concern and ignore the colors. The adjustable ball joint or control arms could be a good option.
@paulkelley86 thank you very much. I have to figure something out. After the last time I went to the shop. The final camber setting is -.8 on the driver side and -1 on passenger. It still pulls to the right. One "tech" said that 1 passenger side camber bolt was seized..so frustrating since they adjusted it the day before and said nothing. I'm ordering a camber tool and will try to do it myself. Before I came in my truck never pulled this much to the right. The final castor readings were 3.1 driver side and 3.8 passenger side. The original readings were 3 and 3.4. My toe was very off when I came in. I wish that was all they adjusted. The toe is .16 driver and .03 passenger. Maybe that's the source of my pull?
Good explanation of how those concentric, lower control arm bolts will affect caster and camber (I have a Toyota pickup & FK Cruiser - both are lifted w/ suspensions hardly original, & enjoy DIY). The visual aids help a lot in grasping this. This is the very understanding I was looking for on UA-cam, but no one was explaining properly. Thanks!
Thank you for the explanation of the concepts of caster and camber and how to get the control arm to move accordingly. Much more helpful than the techs at the Chevy dealership where I work.
Excellent demonstration with the Snap-on UCA demonstrator. About to do an alignment on a 71 dodge demon with that set-up so this was a great refresher.
Thanks so much! my 1991 c1500 can now be fixed. I need to knock out the tabs in the grooves. Big-O said caster and camber were at the limits. I'll be able to ball park it and take it for re- test. Really appreciate the off vehicle demo.
Yeah those did have plastic tabs where they set the alignment at the factory. If they are still there that means 100% the caster camber has never been adjusted. Not surprised.
Holy crap this is more helpful than any articles Ive ever read! Thank you! My w124 has one eccentric bolt on the lower control arm and I'm pretty sure old owner didn't know what he was doing with it neither did the alignment shops. So steering won't self center. I'm sure Caster adjustment would solve it
Yeah increasing caster (more positive) could do it or check for binding like upper strut mounts or seized lower ball joints since the are both pivot points for steering axis
@@paulkelley86 it's a 4matic sedan which has removable ball joints, recently replaced. Strut mounts also recently replaced so most likely not that. Even steering damper was replaced. Also I think problem was there before all of the changes so most likely an incorrect camber/caster arrangement.
U better make sure b4 u go acting like an entitled lil brat. Alot of cars don't specify adjustments from the manufacturer for camber/caster. The ones that usually do are the bigger vehicles like trucks
@@colinr1424 nah fuck all the DIY alignments . I work at dodge and can I tell you all the trucks and chargers that come back because people wanna do their “tik tok “ alignment that shit don’t work. I promise you get it done professionally or atleast on an alignment machine. If not you’re going to end up killing someone
Excellent exploration! Thank you. My caster alignment is .1 off from the spec, and .3 different left to right. But they say it’s fixed caster and does not allow to adjust anything and I have to live with it. I feel it’s drifting to right though :(
That eccentric nut is trickey For the front caster bolt, you rotated the bolt outward to push the control arm out, which reduced camber. Very easy to understand. Then when you were adjusting caster and moving ball joint forward you turned the bolt in the same direction and brought it in to get caster in spec, which also increased your final camber....the bolt pushed off the edge and it moved back the other way...
Thank to you I am starting to know how to adjust caster and camber. The front eccentric bolt moves camber and caster in the same direction and the rear eccentric bolt, in opposite direction. How would you approach it if Camber were negative and Caster, positive? (Camber -2 and Caster + 2.7)
I finally understand caster. I would see the vertical line but I didn't know it referred to the angle of upper to lower ball joints. So cool. Thank you!
Awesome video... thank you so much! Do you know about the dreaded steering pull (to the right) on Gen I Honda Ridgelines? I am at my wits end. I have had the truck aligned multiple times and it is within specification but the darned things still veers to the right and some times a lot when i take my hands off the wheel. Any top tips concerning this vehicle and its steering wheel pulling issues? Thanks!
Great video , I have a Cadillac ATS lowered on coilovers . Alignment guy told me to get new rear eccentric bolts. If i just got adjustable control arms would that suffice? Sorry for my ignorance just a little confused . I also saw eccentric lockout kits which confused me even more 😂
Great video. I believe my Highlander actually has different bolts where the shock mounts in the front suspension that allow you to adjust. In other words I don't think they have these eccentric bolts demonstrated here. There are several different sized bolts one of which is the best one to use. Have you heard of this? Thanks for posting
That is true, that is toyotas method of allowing for minor camber adjustments. That's what they do on all MacPherson strut front ends on a modern toyota. The bolts work fine. But you can also get them aftermarket. Moog for example.
So for a vehicle with negative camber and wanting to get nuetral. The camber bolts are maxed about to the inside. And still +1 Camber. Would you recommend trying to pull the caster bolts in and see if that helps as long as the caster is within spec? Or get a upper control arm adjustable bolt to push out the top of the tire the 1 degree needed
@patrickhoward4080 I'm not sure what vehicle or suspension you are working on, but generally speaking; there are no camber bolts and caster bolts. Both eccentrics on a control arm adjust both camber and caster. It's not something that can be answered in a simple way that can be applied to all circumstances. If you can get both in spec then great, if you have to sacrifice one, say caster, to get camber in spec... well then you want to know what the effect will be. For example if you have more caster than spec to get your camber correct, you would have more turning resistance but it would have fixed your camber tire wear so for me I would go with that. Assuming same caster side to side. This may however not be desirable depending on the vehicle and the driver. See what I mean? Very case by case. And dependent on suspension design, aftermarket options etc.
Great video! I have a 67 f100 with a 2011 crown vic front end and since I lowered it, I have a issue with the wheel fighting me on turns and braking on turns. Ie.. Turning into my driveway or on 90 degree turns. Would that be caster? I have the camber bolts to adjust camber. Any advice? I really appreciate it.
Need a video on installing Moog adjustable ball joints on 2000 Dodge ram 1500 4x4 with 5.9. Camber isn't adjustable stock and the alignment guys locally didn't have the slightest on how to install.
They install just like the original ball joint except the stud is offset so you have to turn it where you need it. The moog instructions are non existent so I am not sure if you line it up where you need it and press it in permanently, or if you press it in and can adjust it by turning afterward. I have seen a few types. Some of the nicer are for smaller cars and come with slotted control arms where the ball joints bolt in, and loosening the bolts allow the ball joint to move around in the slot. Find the right shop, maybe a front end or alignment shop should be able to get you squared away.
excellent video, I recently had my 06 Tacoma 4x4 front suspension (Same components as the truck in the video) rebuilt minus Upper control arms, the alignment shop could not get the passenger side caster in spec. I have new oem toyota cam bolts, moog LCA and ball joints. I'm thinking I need new UCA's, what are your thoughts? The truck pulls to the left. caster: Range is 1.0 - 2.5 acutal is 3.3 cross caster is -1.1 deg Thank you
The max cross caster is .5 so yeah you are out of spec side to side even if each is within spec individually. Those eccentrics can be a bit tricky and the hunter software does not guide the tech well which is why I wanted to make the video for my students. My thoughts are to get the cross camber down below a half. Sometimes if one is is maxed out I will adjust the other side to match even if it puts them both near the limit of spec. Caster is kind of funny, since it won't wear tires you really just want it to match side to side so it doesn't pull. If you have them both too low it may shimmy so if possible keep it in range but for sure equal side to side. If too high (bigger number) don't sweat it, Tacoma don't care about high caster individually, in theory it would be high steering effort but the pump more than makes up for it. To clear bigger tires I max the caster out all the time and they drive great.
My alignment guy used a impact gun to adjust the eccentric bolts while on the laser alignment machine. I don't know if that did it but I ended up with a bad alignment a wore my brand new tires 1/2 down on the sides on only a 300 km trip. They said they won't replace them.
Yikes, maybe impact the nuts but definitely not the actual adjustment. Pretty typical, most average techs are not very good at alignments. Also they don't verify caster which is not a live measurement on screen, which wouldn't cause tire wear but a pull. Sounds like you should find a new place.
@paulkelley86 100%!!! ahhhh, the aroma!!!! Nice vid, very informative, and great production. Thanks!! I'm trying to figure out my rear camber on an 05 deville dealing with a 1 inch lift and don't know where to start with a jack, jack stand, and or ramps ( first times a charm?) How should i set the camber? With wheels on the ground or wheels off ground on jack stands or ramp? I saw someone use 2 plastics bags with some oil in between them under the tires to allow some flex, is this necessary for camber adjustment? I will need to go from a little positive to a little negative. I have GM information, but there are no specs on the camber just gonna try around-0.8° to -1.3° for the rear & for the front, im thinking -0.3° to 1.0° or something like that. Cheers 🍻
Good video hands down, or at leas masks up, same thing here. I switched my hawkeye Elites over to half-tolerance. What are your thoughts/experience in using half-tolerance?
Nice feature if you want to be really tight. I am a little OCD so I would do it. But a fast production shop is just going to get it in normal spec rather than half
@@paulkelley86 Agreed. I do like it as it is worth an additional .5 on the rubric if they are green vs yellow. It seems too many were on the fringe of tolerance and calling it good. I had Scott Long from Hunter and he advocates for fast and half so I adopted his strategy. The predictive toe change when tightening the jam nut is spot on, though some still learn that the hard way. Thanks for doing the video.
Yeah it is, but toe is the number 1 cause. Typically smooth wear would be camber. Toe tends to feel choppy in one direction. Could also be a combination of both
Hmm. Your cam bolt position changed after you made the initial adjustment. When I paused the video at 8:51 the bolt is on the bottom, with the graduations at the top. When you return at 10:29 after sweeping, the cam bolt is at the top left position. Also note the camber and toe numbers changed significantly as well before and after the initial sweep. Unless those don't update live either, but I assume they do. Just need to make sure the bolt is tight before sweeping.
Camber and toe are live. I don't remember exactly why it changed, I think it took me a couple tries so I cut out and adjustment or something. Hope it helps
@@szargos Hahaha 🤣🤣 i saw the same thing he left the bolt in the bottom and when he returns the bolt is in the top.. i come to the comments to see if somebody noticed it.. im glad i was not the olny one
That's not a bad trick, but let's say you jump on the freeway and get in the left lane, the crown would be opposite and combined with the added right caster it will really pull. No manufacturers call for unequal caster. I have found if you get everything equal, the customers are happy. It's probably straighter than from the factory at that point.
If you do an alignment w/prints before you installed the Cam Bolts and you have like -1.2 degrees off on Camber, how it impacts the life of your tires (prints fm/one shop show: -1.0 on left front and -1.2 degrees on right front)? I bought those Cam Bolts for my car, but in doubt if to install them, even not because they have smaller diameter than the original ones, but just fm the fact that in most cases the exact torque on them is unknown. In most shops they don't follow torque specifications. So I think maybe it would be safer to replace tires more often than to install Cam Bolts and later to replace the bushing on the front (as far as I understand that is the main reason when the perfect alignment can't be done on older cars). Thank you for the informative film.
@@paulkelley86 I'm sorry, I didn't say, it is 2003 Chevrolet Cavalier. On Camber Bolt box for another car we have (2001 Saturn SL2) it is printed the torque value 97 Ft-lbs), but for Chevy just a chart:about 4 different diameter and a chart w/torques, and the diameter of the Camber Bolt is not in that chart.
@@olenaerhardt7725 I see, familiar with both of those. Basically those have non-adjustable front caster and camber. The smaller bolt will give you minimal adjustments of camber only. Like a half degree or so depending on the exact brand bolt. The torque spec remains the same since the required clamping force on the knuckle is why the torque spec was created, and that isn't changing. Less about the bolt size. Typically the smaller bolts are hardened so they can accept full torque of the larger. It's not that big of a thing. Back in the day we used to grind the bolt hole in the strut from round to an oval to get the adjustment. But a lot has changed with the lawyer mentality so we shift the liability to the bolt manufacturer rather than our modification. 1 to 1.2 degrees of negative camber is not going to cause your tires to wear all that much faster. Especially since the radial tires don't flex as much as the old days bias ply. TOE is the real killer. It it's causing you a lot of trouble just run it as is and do tire rotation to spread the wear onto the other tires when you move them front to rear.
@@paulkelley86 I don't know why lawyers will be concern about drilling a bit the steering knuckle hole. In Haynes Manual for 2003 Chevy Cavalier (1995-2004 Chevrolet, Pontiac and Sunfire to be more exact) it says on page 10-15: "On the vehicles covered in this manual, camber can only be adjusted by elongating the lower strut-to-knuckle hole." I could elongate it by drilling (I did similar things, when removed the rivets by drilling them out from the control arm in order to install new ball joints, rather than to change the whole control arm). But I think it is not necessary, I'd better will rotate tires, how you advise, and see how everything is going. Before this recent alignment I did, the toe on the front was messed up well, the wheel was on 45 degrees to the right to go straight, and I drove with that condition about 30 mi to try new tires and trying to figure out what is the problem w/wheel. I saw the left front was out to the left just by eye, I thought to increase the # of visible teeth on the Inner Tie Rod on the left, but then thought maybe it is smth else, and anyway I'll go for an alignment. So it was like -0.50 on left front and -0.36 on right front on that front toe. During the alignment it was corrected, the wheel is straight now, and I didn't see any obvious tires damage, so yes, I'd better drive w/that small negative camber. Especially I've recently learned how to change tires w/simple Tire machine fm Harbor Freight, bought 5 tires instead of 4, so I can change when needed. About the torques, I don't know, usually they are lower for Cam Bolts. For example on Saturn the torque for camber Bolts is 97 Ft-lbs, says "don't overtorque" on the box, but the original torque for that car is 126 Ft-lbs (strut-to steering knuckle bolts/nuts), it is fm Haynes on 2001 Saturn. On Chevy also the original bolts/nuts 133 Ft-lbs, and on Camber Bolts 77 Ft-lbs (the technician fm Manufacture gave such answer on my Amazon question, I bought those Cam Bolts on Amazon). I think it might not be quite correct, since Saturn Cam Bolt is just tiny bit thicker and has 97 Ft-lbs, and Chevy only 77 Ft-lbs. Maybe different metal of course, but with all that I would say that the exact torque on Cam Bolts for Chevy is unknown, it should be printed on the box, and it is not.
Quick question. My 2008 4runner is on a 6” lift with 35’s. Driving around town no issues,…but when I get around 45-50mph I get a wheel shake. Not crazy but it’s obvious. Sometimes if I get up in speed quickly no shake. Yes,…..tires were road forced balanced, and unfortunately they are “mud” tires. (Came with the truck) When I looked at my eccentric bolts for adjusting caster,….my passenger side bolt is facing inwards and the drivers side is facing downwards but slightly favoring towards the inward. So that tells me that my drivers side caster is less. Other words,….the drivers side tire is pulled slightly rearwards then the passenger side. I took a quick measurement and it’s off about 1/4” or slightly more. Truck drives straight with no obvious pulling. Could this be causing my wheel shimmy? I know more positive caster is a good thing when lifted? Thanks for a great tutorial!
I have never experienced positive caster causing a shimmy but I did read it could happen in theory. I have some doubt on that. But for sure low/insufficient caster can. Do you know what your road force numbers were? A quick troubleshooting step would be rotating tires front to rear, if it improves you know it is one or both of the tires that were on the front. That's my gut feeling as well.
@@paulkelley86 i don’t know my road force numbers. He did say that he got 3 within good specs but the one he couldn’t. The one that he couldn’t get good I put on the passenger rear. I’m having a 4x4 truck place (specialize in lifts) do a front end alignment this coming Thursday. Hopefully they can figure things out. I’m also thinking my tires are the issue.
Excellent! Imparted information without treating you like a freekin idiot. Repeated information in different ways so that you get a good "angle" on the subject. Now to sirt my 27 year old Renault!😮
hi Paul, great video and explanation. how can i adjust caster on an 09 camry? is that even adjustable? also, will adjusting toe also impact the camber on the camry? thanks
Caster is non adjustable on that camry. Most front engine front wheel drives with machpeherson front suspension do not have adjustable caster. Maybe with a modification or aftermarket part. The proper fix of caster being out of spec is to replace whatever part is bent. But Not sure i would worry about it if it is not pulling since caster doesn't wear tires, it only causes a pull or steering complaint. And Changing caster messes up toe, but not the other way around. Change toe all you want, it won't mess with your caster. That is why we always do caster/camber first, and toe last. Camber shouldn't have much of an effect on toe but maybe a slight change, so adjust camber before toe for sure. And adjusting toe will not effect camber.
@@paulkelley86 great, thank you so much! i've seen people use cam bolts on the top hole of the strut, but then i read a few times that you're supposed to put it on the lower hole. which one is the correct way, do you happen to know?
I can't stand alignment shops in phoenix, tried so many always a steering wheel off so bad. I mean how hard is it to straighten the steering wheel and make the adjustments. Every time I have to break loose the tie rods and do it myself.
I got a 01 Silverado with a leveling kit I installed . Anyway I've kind of noticed it seems the rear eccentric bolt stays more positive than the front to even out caster if you have torsion bars cranked doesn't it? Which way on camber does cranking torsion bars move to I thought cranking goes negative but I need some advice I know my caster is off and I need an alignment but never have the time any help thanks in advance
Lifting makes camber positive. Lowering makes it negative. As for the caster, hard to say. A lot of times with a lift or something custom I am setting caster to allow for clearance like frame or fender rub then factoring in how it will make it handle and making it the same side to side so it doesn't pull.
@@paulkelley86 I think I finally got it pretty close I had to set rear uca eccentric bolt pretty far positive then front one all the way negative my tires are about right at 0 to neg 1 on my bubble camber gauge, it sticks to the rotor magnetically and then I set my toe with string method no more pulling to the right. Thanks for reply.
Hi I'm from Pakistan. I have Toyota tundra with a lift kit installed and no one in my country can help with alignment especially because no machine get a reading. Issue is that the difference between length of my front and back wheel is .5 inches apart on left and right side. The distance is less on the right side and the truck pulls to the right also. Where as while braking the truck pulls left. Please help
Nice video! I have a question - you say that 0.3 degree difference won't cause any pulling. I have even smaller 0.15 degree difference, but my car pulls very very slowly to the right - 1 lane change in about 200m. Could that be caused by this 0.15 degree difference? (degree on the right is smaller)
@@paulkelley86 I'm driving my wife's car and my ex-car on the exactly same way, but it doesn't pull to the right. That's why I think it's something with the car.
@@lyubobg every model car varies. As an example cars with wider tires or non independent suspension will follow road imperfections more. The real test would be to compare your model to a known good, example camry to camry. But if you know how the vehicle was when new, and you want to proceed with troubleshooting a good step would be to rotate the tires from left to right and right to left. Tires cause pulls as well. Or Iist full alignment measurements front and rear and I will help you evaluate. Caster and camber both cause pull. Not sure if you are factoring both.
Work around it. Or there is a function to allow you to lift the vehicle and perform adjustments but I prefer to keep it lowered and adjust on turn plates. Or if you a absolutely have to, you can pull the wheel and adjust your best, then put it back on and recompensate but I try to never do that because it is slow.
Firegrunt03 good for you,not for me. I still feel kinda dumb. He did a good job explaining I'm pretty sure. But maybe if I watch it a few more times and get under the truck, it will probably help me more to fully understand.
Is there a reason this alignmdnt is done hanging in the air?? I thought most alignments the vehicke is measured while on the ground? Or do u just have it up now to change it yhen put it bCk on the ground to reassure? I am also confused how that ewuipment measures caster from.lasers?i can see the toe and camber but how does iy yell caster ?
It has full weight on it. Notice the wheels are still on the drive on rack, not hanging in the air. It measures caster using a sweep. Thr caster is not a live measurement. You have to re sweep it to verify.
After I replaced my entire front end, I had some guy from Discount Tire adjust the camber using the Ranger machine with my 2014 Ford Expedition raised like 4 inches off the rack. The adjustment nuts/bolts are on the lower control arm with a torque spec of 258 foot pounds. So he tightened it probably about half that torque or more, then lowers the vehicle. I explained to him that the Ford Shop manual only says finger tight while raised, then you snug and torque everything once the vehicle is lowered. Do you think my control arm bushings could’ve possibly gotten damaged?
How do I adjust for more negative camber while adding postive caster at the same time? Would I have to push the lower control arm out and forward? My alignment shop said they can't adjust caster because they don't have tools, does that sound crazy? Thanks
Hard to explain with words and it depends on whether the adjustment is on the upper or lower control arm. The top would have to go rearward and inboard. Or the bottom would have to go forward and outboard. Doesn't sound crazy but maybe a little misleading. Most vehicles use typical hand tools to adjust but the majority of people call "toe and go" and alignment so...
so you can only adjust both at the same time? it seemed like the bolt position changed from the first to second test. are there ways to adjust them independently?
Yeah you can adjust one eccentric at a time, just know moving one changes both caster and camber so you may end up chasing your tail per se if you don't consider the effect of both on caster and camber.
@@paulkelley86thanks for the reply! AFAIK, my ‘83 300D benz has only one eccentric per side. So it’s possible the caster is controlled by a different component like the guide rods… still learning!
@@benfischer6601 Oh yeah this was really specific to upper and lower control arm type suspension. Typically called SLA or double wishbone. Yours sounds different and likely as you have discovered, has a different adjustment. I have seen a part like what you describe, if it draws the wheel forward or rearward then yes that would be a caster adjustment. I see those on a Honda Prelude for example. And as a matter of fact, we are all still learning so keep it up.
Perform alignment check with caster sweep on an alignment machine is the only way to know for sure. Sometimes evident by different tire gaps between tire and the fender or front bumper (3 and 9 o clock positons) Or Symptoms would be pull for uneven caster from one side to the other. Negative caster will shimmy Positive caster high steering effort.
There is a setting on the machine to either adjust on turn plates (ground) or adjust while lifted. You can do it lifted but you want to click that button on the machine first so it compensates for the change. The camber changes once you pick it up off the turnplates. But the machine will do predictions and be close once you set it back down.
I’m have an issue after my alignment. The very ends of my inner rims hit my sway bar at full lock. Please help if you’re local I’ll go to your shop. I have a Tacoma 2017 trd
Thank you for replying . I’m actually running stock wheels and tires size is 265 /70r17 . The lift kit i have is a eibach stage 1 with freedom off road uca
@@fernandovega7997 in that case all I could see is you toe being way off. It shouldn't be all that close. Did you get a printout of the alignment results? Maybe bring it back to the same place and request they fix it.
Hey man, see that car behind you ? I took the trans am version up to goodyear in southgate mi and told them the a arms had been off the car. All they aligned was the toe and left my cam/cast out for $100. :(
Caster is adjustable on that using the lower control arm eccentric bolts just like in this video. Maybe the adjustment is maxed out like a part is bent? Maybe the eccentric is seized? Maybe they are incompetent techs?
@@paulkelley86 it's hard to find one here my truck has a 10" lift and in the area I'm from I don't know any shop probably the only ones close by is the deasel Brothers like 8 hrs drive but thanks for reading and replying
@@jesupradows6ta most shops that are good and local won't be on UA-cam. They don't need to be, they will focus on their craft and be successful. Check yelp or Google for reviews, a place that has ase certified technicians would help indicate they care about quality, and asking what type of alignment machine they have will help indicate if they invest in good shop equipment. Guaranteed you can find a good place within an hour. Probably much closer. Any size lift shouldn't be a big thing for a good alignment tech. Maybe cost a little more but everything will on a truck like that.
I have a Mazda 2 2013, I lowered my car, front 1.5 lower & rear 1.3 lower. The problem is my caster, I live in Bakersfield California, I've gone to four auto shops and they all tell me they CAN'T DO NOTHING for my caster, it's unjustable, nothing to play with. Have u done or worked on a Mazda 2 for caster issues? Do u live in California? Any info is helpful😊
I work to train Toyota techs, so not much with Mazda specifically although I see a lot of things over the years. Most front wheel drives have non adjustable caster. That is true. SOME may have a kit to adjust it which would involve changing parts from fixed position to adjustable type. But to be honest if your caster is equal side to side, and it handles OK I wouldn't worry about it. Caster doesn't wear tires. Positive will make it handle stiff and tight. Negative will steer easy and may shimmy at high speeds. Unequal caster between the left and right side will cause a pull to the side with the least caster. We did a lift on a Tacoma a month ago and purposely set max positive caster to get the tires to clear the frame. Since the caster was even side, no pull. Since it was max positive it could be hard to steer but the power steering pump was strong enough to not even make a difference. Vehicle drives perfect and the big tires don't rub. Hard on the pump? Maybe.... but that is a hypothetical situation, I would like to see how it holds up in the real world and so far so good, customer very happy
Oh and yeah, I am in CA, live in murrieta and work at Cypress College. But with covid we don't take any customer work since it is a public community College and they barely let us open so can't help you there.
@@paulkelley86 Thanx so much for the info & taking the time to respond, deeply appreciate it 🙏. There is a you tuber that has the same car I have, Mazda 2, he said to make sure the strut top hats are oriented the same way, would you happen to know what that means? Any diagram or video that help me better understand it
Typically no, I trade labor for labor a lot with other trades at home but doing an alignment would be at the school with school equipment so it would be unethical for me to do that as side work. Although I commonly do class demos or projects. And my students need to do several alignments to pass my class so if you are local we may be able to figure something out. Are you near cypress college?
@@paulkelley86 I live in N Fontana ..I got a Tacoma with SPC UCA and seems no one around here knows how to do proper alignment with those UCA and I stumbled across your video
@@Jes96344 yeah, typical techs just toe and go everything. Even someone decent with alignments wants to follow on screen adjustments provided by the factory. You introduce an aftermarket part with an adjustable ball joint the tech has to really understand angles and how they change with rotating that ball joint. Especially since caster changes are not picked up live by the machine. Part of it too may be that an alignment typically pays a fixed amount, getting paid to toe and go a corolla and then getting paid the same to do your truck wouldn't be very appealing.... Your truck would take my class a good chunk of the lab session which is 1 to 7 Thursday Friday. I cover alignments in 5 weeks. Yours could be a demo. Itll cost you some pizza for the students, but I don't have a loaner car, a shuttle service or even a waiting room, but you can watch the work being done. That's the best I can do for ya.
@iam5hadow444 california community College lol. That was the requirement to hold class in person right in the heat of covid. We did what we had to do while employed by the state. Students appreciated being able to still learn. Don't think it was out of fear of the rona
Be careful what you do with your newly acquired limited knowledge. Lots of cars don't have eccentrics. This is one specific example that you may not be able to apply to all vehicles.
Cypress college, orange county California. The dumb dumb in the viral video on the news works on the liberal arts side of campus. That's not how we get down over here in career tech Ed.
At 2:26 are you near the rear or the front of the car? You says and point: "towards the rear", but it looks to me you point towards the front (by the shape of the lens). At 1:29 you say you want to move to less positive, so kind of toward negative: to the rear. Then you assistant uses the term "move it back", then eventually he says "to the rear". It is a bit confusing, when you don't state clearly where is the front and where is the rear of the car (camera moves fast, you can't see clearly, where you are). Otherwise good and informative film. Thank you.
The front of the truck is to the left at that time. On this Tacoma the adjustment is on the lower control arm where as many others are on the upper. If we move the lower ball joint (because that's the one that is on the adjustable control arm at this point) toward the rear, that will decrease caster. Or bring it closer to 0, then into the negative. If it were a silverado for example, the upper control arm is adjustable. So we would be moving the upper ball joint. If we were to move that same driver's side upper ball joint toward the rear, it would have the opposite effect of a Tacoma, that would be increasing the caster angle. For caster I visualize thr steering angle of a chopper motorcycle with the long stretched out forks... that's very very positive caster.
Excellent explanation of alignment adjustments! But to see all you goons wearing face shields like you’re about to grind off rusty tie rod nuts and surgical masks like you’re about to perform surgery on the car is comical.
It was the days of covid, in a community College, in CA. We did what we had to do to convince admin that we could stay open without transmitting the Rona.
@user-nh4hr8hq1i not only did I go to public school, you are watching a video filmed at a community College, which is a public school. Thanks for recognizing.
I understand where your coming from and your thought process but the mind set of it's good enough just doesn't sit right with me especially when you say yea it could be better. Too many wheel alignment guys follow this process or maybe I'm spoiled because my guy always gets my cars dead center in the green.
Getting every car perfect sounds great, but at some point it becomes OCD. The manufacturer provides a range for a reason, and also what do you do when you get a car that has something bent and you can't get it perfect? Option 1, sell the customer various parts, but what if it's the frame and you charge a bunch of parts on a car that can't be fixed. Most of the time it's great, although much more expensive for customers and not all want to spend the money like that. Option 2, understand where to be very tight, toe for example is a big tire wear item. Camber however has less effect on tire wear so if the car doesn't pull, and the tire wear is not excessive, AND the customers main concern is to align to prolong tires and save money... maybe let that one go. After all it may be more expensive to fix than the minor reduction in tire life costs. I try to be adaptable to the situation. What I do is really based on the customers goal. Not to be disrespectful but everything is "good enough" or not good enough. In spec or out of spec. Every spec on the car.
This is what needed to be done to allow students to come to class in person at the community college during covid19 times. The alternative was to talk about it on zoom....
Dude, community College open for in person lab during the worst covid lockdowns. Whether or not I agree with the policy's, I am an employee and it's not my call. Conform or sell students out for online only instructions. Hopefully that crap is over though. Been a long time.
Community College during covid Chooch, we did what we had to do to stay in person rather than online. I'm the guy who teaches the class not the person who makes the policies. Pretty rough for the students doing manual labor though. Luckily that policy has been lifted.
You taught me my 2 months class in 12minutes and 33seconds.
Thank you very much for posting this video!
Very helpful.
My man said "Hella flush" 😂😂😂
I love it. Super hip.
Some people just have a great way of engaging people in a way that gets things to where they need to go. This guy is one of them.
Some of the best explanations of caster and camber that ive seen online. I have a 2011 ram 1500 with new inner and outer tie rods. Took it to a shop and now my camber is .4 on one side and .9 on another. Steering is off and it pulls like never before. They claimed my one side steering knuckle wont allow adjustment of the camber, no real explanation. Said i might need a special upper ball joint installed to set the camber on the driver side.Went back and it has only improved a bit. This information will help me either work on it myself better or make me more aware of what they are doing at another shop. I want the camber more equal at least. Ive never had issues before. Thank you very much for sharing the knowledge!
@ryanv7195 you have a couple options for that. If the one side is maxed out (or undajustable for whatever reason) you could move the other side to match even if it's moving it further out of spec.
A lot of techs are kind of mentally lazy and think they just make things green and don't really understand. A good tech will address your concern and ignore the colors.
The adjustable ball joint or control arms could be a good option.
@paulkelley86 thank you very much. I have to figure something out. After the last time I went to the shop. The final camber setting is -.8 on the driver side and -1 on passenger. It still pulls to the right. One "tech" said that 1 passenger side camber bolt was seized..so frustrating since they adjusted it the day before and said nothing. I'm ordering a camber tool and will try to do it myself. Before I came in my truck never pulled this much to the right. The final castor readings were 3.1 driver side and 3.8 passenger side. The original readings were 3 and 3.4. My toe was very off when I came in. I wish that was all they adjusted. The toe is .16 driver and .03 passenger. Maybe that's the source of my pull?
Good explanation of how those concentric, lower control arm bolts will affect caster and camber (I have a Toyota pickup & FK Cruiser - both are lifted w/ suspensions hardly original, & enjoy DIY). The visual aids help a lot in grasping this. This is the very understanding I was looking for on UA-cam, but no one was explaining properly. Thanks!
You've got to be, one of the Best Alignment Techs out there in any continent.... Great video...just great stuff....
Thank you for the explanation of the concepts of caster and camber and how to get the control arm to move accordingly. Much more helpful than the techs at the Chevy dealership where I work.
I love this video... This short session explains the complete understanding to what caster and camber is. My sincere appreciation and big thank you.
Excellent demonstration with the Snap-on UCA demonstrator. About to do an alignment on a 71 dodge demon with that set-up so this was a great refresher.
That video was awesome, I now know what camber and caster are.
Thanks so much! my 1991 c1500 can now be fixed. I need to knock out the tabs in the grooves. Big-O said caster and camber were at the limits. I'll be able to ball park it and take it for re- test. Really appreciate the off vehicle demo.
Yeah those did have plastic tabs where they set the alignment at the factory. If they are still there that means 100% the caster camber has never been adjusted. Not surprised.
Holy crap this is more helpful than any articles Ive ever read! Thank you! My w124 has one eccentric bolt on the lower control arm and I'm pretty sure old owner didn't know what he was doing with it neither did the alignment shops. So steering won't self center. I'm sure Caster adjustment would solve it
Yeah increasing caster (more positive) could do it or check for binding like upper strut mounts or seized lower ball joints since the are both pivot points for steering axis
@@paulkelley86 it's a 4matic sedan which has removable ball joints, recently replaced. Strut mounts also recently replaced so most likely not that. Even steering damper was replaced. Also I think problem was there before all of the changes so most likely an incorrect camber/caster arrangement.
*I'M ABOUT TO GO THE ALIGNMENT SHOP AND SHOW THEM THIS VIDEO!!! For some reason they can't seem to fix the caster on 04 Lexus GS300 for nothing!*
U better make sure b4 u go acting like an entitled lil brat. Alot of cars don't specify adjustments from the manufacturer for camber/caster. The ones that usually do are the bigger vehicles like trucks
Is it a chain? Or is it a small shop. Most people either don’t know or don’t have the resources to fix it or they just plain don’t care
... so do it yourself. You don't need a machine.
@@colinr1424 nah fuck all the DIY alignments . I work at dodge and can I tell you all the trucks and chargers that come back because people wanna do their “tik tok “ alignment that shit don’t work. I promise you get it done professionally or atleast on an alignment machine. If not you’re going to end up killing someone
@@Prod_Beatzz Most people are morons, not all.
You did a really good job on alignment
I set up my alignment shop yesturday so i am here to learn from this very informative video...i hope i will be very good at wheel alignment very soon👍
Wya
Did I read that right, you set up an alignment shop without knowing how to do alignments?
@@supersabrosinho LOL
@@supersabrosinhoexactly my thoughts 😂😂😂
Excellent exploration! Thank you. My caster alignment is .1 off from the spec, and .3 different left to right. But they say it’s fixed caster and does not allow to adjust anything and I have to live with it. I feel it’s drifting to right though :(
Freaking fantastic explanation. Well done sir 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼.
That eccentric nut is trickey For the front caster bolt, you rotated the bolt outward to push the control arm out, which reduced camber. Very easy to understand. Then when you were adjusting caster and moving ball joint forward you turned the bolt in the same direction and brought it in to get caster in spec, which also increased your final camber....the bolt pushed off the edge and it moved back the other way...
Great video. Going to order this alignment machine from Amazon and give it a shot tomorrow.
Thank to you I am starting to know how to adjust caster and camber. The front eccentric bolt moves camber and caster in the same direction and the rear eccentric bolt, in opposite direction. How would you approach it if Camber were negative and Caster, positive? (Camber -2 and Caster + 2.7)
I finally understand caster. I would see the vertical line but I didn't know it referred to the angle of upper to lower ball joints. So cool. Thank you!
I struggled with it for a while too. SAI is the next one to understand then included angle
EXCELLENT VIDEO AND EXPLANATION!
Good video. I knew that and hope some alignment shop guys watch this video
Awesome video... thank you so much!
Do you know about the dreaded steering pull (to the right) on Gen I Honda Ridgelines? I am at my wits end. I have had the truck aligned multiple times and it is within specification but the darned things still veers to the right and some times a lot when i take my hands off the wheel. Any top tips concerning this vehicle and its steering wheel pulling issues? Thanks!
Been doing it for a while and still need these as reminders lol
Great video ,
I have a Cadillac ATS lowered on coilovers . Alignment guy told me to get new rear eccentric bolts. If i just got adjustable control arms would that suffice? Sorry for my ignorance just a little confused . I also saw eccentric lockout kits which confused me even more 😂
great vid super easy to understand!
That video was awesome Thank you very much Very helpful
Very good explanation.
From a true professional 👌
Great video. I believe my Highlander actually has different bolts where the shock mounts in the front suspension that allow you to adjust. In other words I don't think they have these eccentric bolts demonstrated here. There are several different sized bolts one of which is the best one to use. Have you heard of this? Thanks for posting
That is true, that is toyotas method of allowing for minor camber adjustments. That's what they do on all MacPherson strut front ends on a modern toyota.
The bolts work fine.
But you can also get them aftermarket. Moog for example.
Excellent video. Thanks.
The only thing I miss about shop class is the alignment machine.
So for a vehicle with negative camber and wanting to get nuetral. The camber bolts are maxed about to the inside. And still +1 Camber. Would you recommend trying to pull the caster bolts in and see if that helps as long as the caster is within spec? Or get a upper control arm adjustable bolt to push out the top of the tire the 1 degree needed
@patrickhoward4080 I'm not sure what vehicle or suspension you are working on, but generally speaking; there are no camber bolts and caster bolts. Both eccentrics on a control arm adjust both camber and caster.
It's not something that can be answered in a simple way that can be applied to all circumstances. If you can get both in spec then great, if you have to sacrifice one, say caster, to get camber in spec... well then you want to know what the effect will be. For example if you have more caster than spec to get your camber correct, you would have more turning resistance but it would have fixed your camber tire wear so for me I would go with that. Assuming same caster side to side. This may however not be desirable depending on the vehicle and the driver.
See what I mean? Very case by case. And dependent on suspension design, aftermarket options etc.
Really helpful. Thanks
Great video! I have a 67 f100 with a 2011 crown vic front end and since I lowered it, I have a issue with the wheel fighting me on turns and braking on turns. Ie.. Turning into my driveway or on 90 degree turns. Would that be caster? I have the camber bolts to adjust camber. Any advice? I really appreciate it.
Great video.
Need a video on installing Moog adjustable ball joints on 2000 Dodge ram 1500 4x4 with 5.9. Camber isn't adjustable stock and the alignment guys locally didn't have the slightest on how to install.
They install just like the original ball joint except the stud is offset so you have to turn it where you need it. The moog instructions are non existent so I am not sure if you line it up where you need it and press it in permanently, or if you press it in and can adjust it by turning afterward.
I have seen a few types.
Some of the nicer are for smaller cars and come with slotted control arms where the ball joints bolt in, and loosening the bolts allow the ball joint to move around in the slot.
Find the right shop, maybe a front end or alignment shop should be able to get you squared away.
Thank you. Great job!
Hey my car pulls to the right. I had a accident in the past. But replaced everything since.
excellent video, I recently had my 06 Tacoma 4x4 front suspension (Same components as the truck in the video) rebuilt minus Upper control arms, the alignment shop could not get the passenger side caster in spec. I have new oem toyota cam bolts, moog LCA and ball joints. I'm thinking I need new UCA's, what are your thoughts?
The truck pulls to the left.
caster:
Range is 1.0 - 2.5
acutal is 3.3
cross caster is -1.1 deg
Thank you
The max cross caster is .5 so yeah you are out of spec side to side even if each is within spec individually.
Those eccentrics can be a bit tricky and the hunter software does not guide the tech well which is why I wanted to make the video for my students.
My thoughts are to get the cross camber down below a half. Sometimes if one is is maxed out I will adjust the other side to match even if it puts them both near the limit of spec.
Caster is kind of funny, since it won't wear tires you really just want it to match side to side so it doesn't pull. If you have them both too low it may shimmy so if possible keep it in range but for sure equal side to side. If too high (bigger number) don't sweat it, Tacoma don't care about high caster individually, in theory it would be high steering effort but the pump more than makes up for it. To clear bigger tires I max the caster out all the time and they drive great.
@@paulkelley86 Thank you!
Very well taught
My alignment guy used a impact gun to adjust the eccentric bolts while on the laser alignment machine. I don't know if that did it but I ended up with a bad alignment a wore my brand new tires 1/2 down on the sides on only a 300 km trip. They said they won't replace them.
Yikes, maybe impact the nuts but definitely not the actual adjustment. Pretty typical, most average techs are not very good at alignments. Also they don't verify caster which is not a live measurement on screen, which wouldn't cause tire wear but a pull.
Sounds like you should find a new place.
When I hear "Hella" I can smell north Cali
Well... that odor has made it's way down south I say.
@paulkelley86 100%!!! ahhhh, the aroma!!!!
Nice vid, very informative, and great production. Thanks!!
I'm trying to figure out my rear camber on an 05 deville dealing with a 1 inch lift and don't know where to start with a jack, jack stand, and or ramps ( first times a charm?)
How should i set the camber? With wheels on the ground or wheels off ground on jack stands or ramp? I saw someone use 2 plastics bags with some oil in between them under the tires to allow some flex, is this necessary for camber adjustment?
I will need to go from a little positive to a little negative.
I have GM information, but there are no specs on the camber just gonna try around-0.8° to -1.3° for the rear & for the front, im thinking -0.3° to 1.0° or something like that. Cheers 🍻
Thank you so much for this
love these COVID videos...
For sure tempted to delete these and redo all without the mask.... 🤦
Good video hands down, or at leas masks up, same thing here. I switched my hawkeye Elites over to half-tolerance. What are your thoughts/experience in using half-tolerance?
Nice feature if you want to be really tight. I am a little OCD so I would do it. But a fast production shop is just going to get it in normal spec rather than half
@@paulkelley86 Agreed. I do like it as it is worth an additional .5 on the rubric if they are green vs yellow. It seems too many were on the fringe of tolerance and calling it good. I had Scott Long from Hunter and he advocates for fast and half so I adopted his strategy. The predictive toe change when tightening the jam nut is spot on, though some still learn that the hard way. Thanks for doing the video.
So how much of a difference should one might refer to ?
Is a 1* positive camber enough to wear the outside edge of tires? The outside edges of my front tires are about done for after 20K.
Yeah it is, but toe is the number 1 cause. Typically smooth wear would be camber. Toe tends to feel choppy in one direction.
Could also be a combination of both
@@paulkelley86 thank you. The alignment shop gave me some specs, and the toe is OK. Big O Tires. I'll have them do it again, should be under warranty.
Hmm. Your cam bolt position changed after you made the initial adjustment. When I paused the video at 8:51 the bolt is on the bottom, with the graduations at the top. When you return at 10:29 after sweeping, the cam bolt is at the top left position. Also note the camber and toe numbers changed significantly as well before and after the initial sweep. Unless those don't update live either, but I assume they do. Just need to make sure the bolt is tight before sweeping.
Camber and toe are live. I don't remember exactly why it changed, I think it took me a couple tries so I cut out and adjustment or something. Hope it helps
@@paulkelley86 Oh ok, makes sense. Thanks for posting.
@@szargos Hahaha 🤣🤣 i saw the same thing he left the bolt in the bottom and when he returns the bolt is in the top.. i come to the comments to see if somebody noticed it.. im glad i was not the olny one
Right side caster should be more positive than the left, no? To compensate for typical road crown?
That's not a bad trick, but let's say you jump on the freeway and get in the left lane, the crown would be opposite and combined with the added right caster it will really pull.
No manufacturers call for unequal caster.
I have found if you get everything equal, the customers are happy. It's probably straighter than from the factory at that point.
Thank you for this video
If you do an alignment w/prints before you installed the Cam Bolts and you have like -1.2 degrees off on Camber, how it impacts the life of your tires (prints fm/one shop show: -1.0 on left front and -1.2 degrees on right front)? I bought those Cam Bolts for my car, but in doubt if to install them, even not because they have smaller diameter than the original ones, but just fm the fact that in most cases the exact torque on them is unknown. In most shops they don't follow torque specifications. So I think maybe it would be safer to replace tires more often than to install Cam Bolts and later to replace the bushing on the front (as far as I understand that is the main reason when the perfect alignment can't be done on older cars). Thank you for the informative film.
What is your year/make/model?
@@paulkelley86 I'm sorry, I didn't say, it is 2003 Chevrolet Cavalier. On Camber Bolt box for another car we have (2001 Saturn SL2) it is printed the torque value 97 Ft-lbs), but for Chevy just a chart:about 4 different diameter and a chart w/torques, and the diameter of the Camber Bolt is not in that chart.
@@olenaerhardt7725 I see, familiar with both of those.
Basically those have non-adjustable front caster and camber. The smaller bolt will give you minimal adjustments of camber only. Like a half degree or so depending on the exact brand bolt.
The torque spec remains the same since the required clamping force on the knuckle is why the torque spec was created, and that isn't changing. Less about the bolt size. Typically the smaller bolts are hardened so they can accept full torque of the larger.
It's not that big of a thing.
Back in the day we used to grind the bolt hole in the strut from round to an oval to get the adjustment. But a lot has changed with the lawyer mentality so we shift the liability to the bolt manufacturer rather than our modification.
1 to 1.2 degrees of negative camber is not going to cause your tires to wear all that much faster. Especially since the radial tires don't flex as much as the old days bias ply.
TOE is the real killer.
It it's causing you a lot of trouble just run it as is and do tire rotation to spread the wear onto the other tires when you move them front to rear.
@@paulkelley86 I don't know why lawyers will be concern about drilling a bit the steering knuckle hole. In Haynes Manual for 2003 Chevy Cavalier (1995-2004 Chevrolet, Pontiac and Sunfire to be more exact) it says on page 10-15:
"On the vehicles covered in this manual, camber can only be adjusted by elongating the lower strut-to-knuckle hole."
I could elongate it by drilling (I did similar things, when removed the rivets by drilling them out from the control arm in order to install new ball joints, rather than to change the whole control arm). But I think it is not necessary, I'd better will rotate tires, how you advise, and see how everything is going. Before this recent alignment I did, the toe on the front was messed up well, the wheel was on 45 degrees to the right to go straight, and I drove with that condition about 30 mi to try new tires and trying to figure out what is the problem w/wheel. I saw the left front was out to the left just by eye, I thought to increase the # of visible teeth on the Inner Tie Rod on the left, but then thought maybe it is smth else, and anyway I'll go for an alignment. So it was like -0.50 on left front and -0.36 on right front on that front toe. During the alignment it was corrected, the wheel is straight now, and I didn't see any obvious tires damage, so yes, I'd better drive w/that small negative camber. Especially I've recently learned how to change tires w/simple Tire machine fm Harbor Freight, bought 5 tires instead of 4, so I can change when needed.
About the torques, I don't know, usually they are lower for Cam Bolts. For example on Saturn the torque for camber Bolts is 97 Ft-lbs, says "don't overtorque" on the box, but the original torque for that car is 126 Ft-lbs (strut-to steering knuckle bolts/nuts), it is fm Haynes on 2001 Saturn. On Chevy also the original bolts/nuts 133 Ft-lbs, and on Camber Bolts 77 Ft-lbs (the technician fm Manufacture gave such answer on my Amazon question, I bought those Cam Bolts on Amazon). I think it might not be quite correct, since Saturn Cam Bolt is just tiny bit thicker and has 97 Ft-lbs, and Chevy only 77 Ft-lbs. Maybe different metal of course, but with all that I would say that the exact torque on Cam Bolts for Chevy is unknown, it should be printed on the box, and it is not.
Where r u located?it's hard to find someone who cares and does it right
Quick question.
My 2008 4runner is on a 6” lift with 35’s. Driving around town no issues,…but when I get around 45-50mph I get a wheel shake. Not crazy but it’s obvious. Sometimes if I get up in speed quickly no shake.
Yes,…..tires were road forced balanced, and unfortunately they are “mud” tires. (Came with the truck)
When I looked at my eccentric bolts for adjusting caster,….my passenger side bolt is facing inwards and the drivers side is facing downwards but slightly favoring towards the inward. So that tells me that my drivers side caster is less. Other words,….the drivers side tire is pulled slightly rearwards then the passenger side. I took a quick measurement and it’s off about 1/4” or slightly more.
Truck drives straight with no obvious pulling.
Could this be causing my wheel shimmy? I know more positive caster is a good thing when lifted?
Thanks for a great tutorial!
I have never experienced positive caster causing a shimmy but I did read it could happen in theory. I have some doubt on that.
But for sure low/insufficient caster can.
Do you know what your road force numbers were?
A quick troubleshooting step would be rotating tires front to rear, if it improves you know it is one or both of the tires that were on the front. That's my gut feeling as well.
@@paulkelley86 i don’t know my road force numbers. He did say that he got 3 within good specs but the one he couldn’t. The one that he couldn’t get good I put on the passenger rear.
I’m having a 4x4 truck place (specialize in lifts) do a front end alignment this coming Thursday. Hopefully they can figure things out. I’m also thinking my tires are the issue.
Excellent! Imparted information without treating you like a freekin idiot. Repeated information in different ways so that you get a good "angle" on the subject. Now to sirt my 27 year old Renault!😮
hi Paul, great video and explanation. how can i adjust caster on an 09 camry? is that even adjustable? also, will adjusting toe also impact the camber on the camry? thanks
Caster is non adjustable on that camry. Most front engine front wheel drives with machpeherson front suspension do not have adjustable caster.
Maybe with a modification or aftermarket part.
The proper fix of caster being out of spec is to replace whatever part is bent.
But
Not sure i would worry about it if it is not pulling since caster doesn't wear tires, it only causes a pull or steering complaint.
And
Changing caster messes up toe, but not the other way around. Change toe all you want, it won't mess with your caster. That is why we always do caster/camber first, and toe last. Camber shouldn't have much of an effect on toe but maybe a slight change, so adjust camber before toe for sure. And adjusting toe will not effect camber.
@@paulkelley86 thank you for the info. would i need aftermarket cam bolts to adjust camber on this car then?
@@planchik yes that is correct. Several companies make them including Toyota oem. Many like the moog brand better.
@@paulkelley86 great, thank you so much! i've seen people use cam bolts on the top hole of the strut, but then i read a few times that you're supposed to put it on the lower hole. which one is the correct way, do you happen to know?
I can't stand alignment shops in phoenix, tried so many always a steering wheel off so bad. I mean how hard is it to straighten the steering wheel and make the adjustments. Every time I have to break loose the tie rods and do it myself.
I got a 01 Silverado with a leveling kit I installed . Anyway I've kind of noticed it seems the rear eccentric bolt stays more positive than the front to even out caster if you have torsion bars cranked doesn't it? Which way on camber does cranking torsion bars move to I thought cranking goes negative but I need some advice I know my caster is off and I need an alignment but never have the time any help thanks in advance
Lifting makes camber positive. Lowering makes it negative.
As for the caster, hard to say. A lot of times with a lift or something custom I am setting caster to allow for clearance like frame or fender rub then factoring in how it will make it handle and making it the same side to side so it doesn't pull.
@@paulkelley86 I think I finally got it pretty close I had to set rear uca eccentric bolt pretty far positive then front one all the way negative my tires are about right at 0 to neg 1 on my bubble camber gauge, it sticks to the rotor magnetically and then I set my toe with string method no more pulling to the right. Thanks for reply.
Hi I'm from Pakistan. I have Toyota tundra with a lift kit installed and no one in my country can help with alignment especially because no machine get a reading.
Issue is that the difference between length of my front and back wheel is .5 inches apart on left and right side. The distance is less on the right side and the truck pulls to the right also. Where as while braking the truck pulls left. Please help
On a 08 trailblazer my left caster 3.2 and right is 3.4 is that good
Nice video! I have a question - you say that 0.3 degree difference won't cause any pulling. I have even smaller 0.15 degree difference, but my car pulls very very slowly to the right - 1 lane change in about 200m. Could that be caused by this 0.15 degree difference? (degree on the right is smaller)
Number 1 suspect for that is road crown. The roads are sloped to the right for water runoff.
@@paulkelley86 I'm driving my wife's car and my ex-car on the exactly same way, but it doesn't pull to the right. That's why I think it's something with the car.
@@lyubobg every model car varies. As an example cars with wider tires or non independent suspension will follow road imperfections more. The real test would be to compare your model to a known good, example camry to camry. But if you know how the vehicle was when new, and you want to proceed with troubleshooting a good step would be to rotate the tires from left to right and right to left. Tires cause pulls as well. Or Iist full alignment measurements front and rear and I will help you evaluate. Caster and camber both cause pull. Not sure if you are factoring both.
If you had to make your camber adjustments from the upper control arms, how would you do it with the wheel in the way? Please help!!!!
Work around it. Or there is a function to allow you to lift the vehicle and perform adjustments but I prefer to keep it lowered and adjust on turn plates.
Or if you a absolutely have to, you can pull the wheel and adjust your best, then put it back on and recompensate but I try to never do that because it is slow.
@@paulkelley86 ok ok. Thanks a lot.
Damn. Ive been dumb all my life and this man “undumbed” me🤣
Firegrunt03 good for you,not for me. I still feel kinda dumb. He did a good job explaining I'm pretty sure. But maybe if I watch it a few more times and get under the truck, it will probably help me more to fully understand.
Is there a reason this alignmdnt is done hanging in the air?? I thought most alignments the vehicke is measured while on the ground? Or do u just have it up now to change it yhen put it bCk on the ground to reassure? I am also confused how that ewuipment measures caster from.lasers?i can see the toe and camber but how does iy yell caster ?
It has full weight on it. Notice the wheels are still on the drive on rack, not hanging in the air.
It measures caster using a sweep. Thr caster is not a live measurement. You have to re sweep it to verify.
After I replaced my entire front end, I had some guy from Discount Tire adjust the camber using the Ranger machine with my 2014 Ford Expedition raised like 4 inches off the rack. The adjustment nuts/bolts are on the lower control arm with a torque spec of 258 foot pounds. So he tightened it probably about half that torque or more, then lowers the vehicle. I explained to him that the Ford Shop manual only says finger tight while raised, then you snug and torque everything once the vehicle is lowered. Do you think my control arm bushings could’ve possibly gotten damaged?
How do I adjust for more negative camber while adding postive caster at the same time? Would I have to push the lower control arm out and forward? My alignment shop said they can't adjust caster because they don't have tools, does that sound crazy? Thanks
Hard to explain with words and it depends on whether the adjustment is on the upper or lower control arm. The top would have to go rearward and inboard.
Or the bottom would have to go forward and outboard.
Doesn't sound crazy but maybe a little misleading. Most vehicles use typical hand tools to adjust but the majority of people call "toe and go" and alignment so...
@@paulkelley86thanks for the quick reply, that's what my alignment shop did, they only change the toe on my Tacoma.
so you can only adjust both at the same time? it seemed like the bolt position changed from the first to second test. are there ways to adjust them independently?
Yeah you can adjust one eccentric at a time, just know moving one changes both caster and camber so you may end up chasing your tail per se if you don't consider the effect of both on caster and camber.
@@paulkelley86thanks for the reply! AFAIK, my ‘83 300D benz has only one eccentric per side. So it’s possible the caster is controlled by a different component like the guide rods… still learning!
@@benfischer6601 Oh yeah this was really specific to upper and lower control arm type suspension. Typically called SLA or double wishbone. Yours sounds different and likely as you have discovered, has a different adjustment. I have seen a part like what you describe, if it draws the wheel forward or rearward then yes that would be a caster adjustment. I see those on a Honda Prelude for example. And as a matter of fact, we are all still learning so keep it up.
How do I know if my car's castor angle is right?
Perform alignment check with caster sweep on an alignment machine is the only way to know for sure.
Sometimes evident by different tire gaps between tire and the fender or front bumper (3 and 9 o clock positons)
Or
Symptoms would be pull for uneven caster from one side to the other.
Negative caster will shimmy
Positive caster high steering effort.
Does the tires need to be on the ground when adjusting camber
There is a setting on the machine to either adjust on turn plates (ground) or adjust while lifted. You can do it lifted but you want to click that button on the machine first so it compensates for the change. The camber changes once you pick it up off the turnplates. But the machine will do predictions and be close once you set it back down.
I’m have an issue after my alignment. The very ends of my inner rims hit my sway bar at full lock. Please help if you’re local I’ll go to your shop. I have a Tacoma 2017 trd
Sorry this is a school so I can't to work for you. But I suspect you have aftermarket wheels that are too wide.
Thank you for replying . I’m actually running stock wheels and tires size is 265 /70r17 . The lift kit i have is a eibach stage 1 with freedom off road uca
@@fernandovega7997 in that case all I could see is you toe being way off. It shouldn't be all that close. Did you get a printout of the alignment results? Maybe bring it back to the same place and request they fix it.
Tech's at Toyota need to watch this cuz they have no clue how to do alignments.
If all toyota techs had this training and opportunities to be properly taught then they would be able to
Hey man, see that car behind you ? I took the trans am version up to goodyear in southgate mi and told them the a arms had been off the car. All they aligned was the toe and left my cam/cast out for $100. :(
Sounds like something mechanics at a chain would do
Lmfao videos from 2021 have everyone looking like they're in an operating room.
Strange times, but while other schools were closed we did this to appease the state so we could stay open FYI
How do i improve my caster on a 2013 toyora tundra? Ive taken it to two shops and feel like they are feeding me full of sh*t
Caster is adjustable on that using the lower control arm eccentric bolts just like in this video.
Maybe the adjustment is maxed out like a part is bent?
Maybe the eccentric is seized?
Maybe they are incompetent techs?
Where are you located I need help with my f350 dually
I am in socal. I am sure there is a reputable shop near you, just need to find the right people.
@@paulkelley86 it's hard to find one here my truck has a 10" lift and in the area I'm from I don't know any shop probably the only ones close by is the deasel Brothers like 8 hrs drive but thanks for reading and replying
@@jesupradows6ta most shops that are good and local won't be on UA-cam. They don't need to be, they will focus on their craft and be successful. Check yelp or Google for reviews, a place that has ase certified technicians would help indicate they care about quality, and asking what type of alignment machine they have will help indicate if they invest in good shop equipment. Guaranteed you can find a good place within an hour. Probably much closer. Any size lift shouldn't be a big thing for a good alignment tech. Maybe cost a little more but everything will on a truck like that.
@@paulkelley86 thank you I will do that
5 Stars! 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
I have a Mazda 2 2013, I lowered my car, front 1.5 lower & rear 1.3 lower.
The problem is my caster, I live in Bakersfield California, I've gone to four auto shops and they all tell me they CAN'T DO NOTHING for my caster, it's unjustable, nothing to play with.
Have u done or worked on a Mazda 2 for caster issues?
Do u live in California?
Any info is helpful😊
I work to train Toyota techs, so not much with Mazda specifically although I see a lot of things over the years. Most front wheel drives have non adjustable caster. That is true. SOME may have a kit to adjust it which would involve changing parts from fixed position to adjustable type.
But to be honest if your caster is equal side to side, and it handles OK I wouldn't worry about it. Caster doesn't wear tires.
Positive will make it handle stiff and tight.
Negative will steer easy and may shimmy at high speeds.
Unequal caster between the left and right side will cause a pull to the side with the least caster.
We did a lift on a Tacoma a month ago and purposely set max positive caster to get the tires to clear the frame. Since the caster was even side, no pull. Since it was max positive it could be hard to steer but the power steering pump was strong enough to not even make a difference. Vehicle drives perfect and the big tires don't rub. Hard on the pump? Maybe.... but that is a hypothetical situation, I would like to see how it holds up in the real world and so far so good, customer very happy
Oh and yeah, I am in CA, live in murrieta and work at Cypress College. But with covid we don't take any customer work since it is a public community College and they barely let us open so can't help you there.
@@paulkelley86
Thanx so much for the info & taking the time to respond, deeply appreciate it 🙏.
There is a you tuber that has the same car I have, Mazda 2, he said to make sure the strut top hats are oriented the same way, would you happen to know what that means?
Any diagram or video that help me better understand it
Thx
Do you do side work I got a 2018 Tacoma that need a alignment
Typically no, I trade labor for labor a lot with other trades at home but doing an alignment would be at the school with school equipment so it would be unethical for me to do that as side work. Although I commonly do class demos or projects. And my students need to do several alignments to pass my class so if you are local we may be able to figure something out. Are you near cypress college?
@@paulkelley86 I live in N Fontana ..I got a Tacoma with SPC UCA and seems no one around here knows how to do proper alignment with those UCA and I stumbled across your video
@@Jes96344 yeah, typical techs just toe and go everything. Even someone decent with alignments wants to follow on screen adjustments provided by the factory. You introduce an aftermarket part with an adjustable ball joint the tech has to really understand angles and how they change with rotating that ball joint. Especially since caster changes are not picked up live by the machine.
Part of it too may be that an alignment typically pays a fixed amount, getting paid to toe and go a corolla and then getting paid the same to do your truck wouldn't be very appealing....
Your truck would take my class a good chunk of the lab session which is 1 to 7 Thursday Friday. I cover alignments in 5 weeks. Yours could be a demo. Itll cost you some pizza for the students, but I don't have a loaner car, a shuttle service or even a waiting room, but you can watch the work being done. That's the best I can do for ya.
@@paulkelley86 do you need to truck for both days and if so can I drop it off and pick up the next day
@@Jes96344 nah just the one day. Best if you can wait with it though. You will probably have fun
Thanks
Holy hell, mask and full face shield people were hella terrified of covid over there lmao
@iam5hadow444 california community College lol. That was the requirement to hold class in person right in the heat of covid.
We did what we had to do while employed by the state. Students appreciated being able to still learn. Don't think it was out of fear of the rona
They always say my struts are why they can't fix my camber. Time to call their bluff
Be careful what you do with your newly acquired limited knowledge. Lots of cars don't have eccentrics. This is one specific example that you may not be able to apply to all vehicles.
Do you have a video on toe?
I have several for my students just starting out. Search paul kelley alignment and all will show.
@@paulkelley86 Sweet. I subscribed.
Man where are you located????
Cypress college, orange county California. The dumb dumb in the viral video on the news works on the liberal arts side of campus. That's not how we get down over here in career tech Ed.
Holl what to work wth you pasel
Don't be a robot listing to the machine. Beep beep A+
At 2:26 are you near the rear or the front of the car? You says and point: "towards the rear", but it looks to me you point towards the front (by the shape of the lens). At 1:29 you say you want to move to less positive, so kind of toward negative: to the rear. Then you assistant uses the term "move it back", then eventually he says "to the rear". It is a bit confusing, when you don't state clearly where is the front and where is the rear of the car (camera moves fast, you can't see clearly, where you are). Otherwise good and informative film. Thank you.
The front of the truck is to the left at that time.
On this Tacoma the adjustment is on the lower control arm where as many others are on the upper.
If we move the lower ball joint (because that's the one that is on the adjustable control arm at this point) toward the rear, that will decrease caster. Or bring it closer to 0, then into the negative.
If it were a silverado for example, the upper control arm is adjustable. So we would be moving the upper ball joint. If we were to move that same driver's side upper ball joint toward the rear, it would have the opposite effect of a Tacoma, that would be increasing the caster angle.
For caster I visualize thr steering angle of a chopper motorcycle with the long stretched out forks... that's very very positive caster.
@@paulkelley86 I see, thank you.
like the mask lmao
Excellent explanation of alignment adjustments! But to see all you goons wearing face shields like you’re about to grind off rusty tie rod nuts and surgical masks like you’re about to perform surgery on the car is comical.
It was the days of covid, in a community College, in CA. We did what we had to do to convince admin that we could stay open without transmitting the Rona.
This guy must have gone to public school 😂
@user-nh4hr8hq1i not only did I go to public school, you are watching a video filmed at a community College, which is a public school. Thanks for recognizing.
Wzzup
hella flush
I understand where your coming from and your thought process but the mind set of it's good enough just doesn't sit right with me especially when you say yea it could be better. Too many wheel alignment guys follow this process or maybe I'm spoiled because my guy always gets my cars dead center in the green.
Getting every car perfect sounds great, but at some point it becomes OCD. The manufacturer provides a range for a reason, and also what do you do when you get a car that has something bent and you can't get it perfect?
Option 1, sell the customer various parts, but what if it's the frame and you charge a bunch of parts on a car that can't be fixed. Most of the time it's great, although much more expensive for customers and not all want to spend the money like that.
Option 2, understand where to be very tight, toe for example is a big tire wear item. Camber however has less effect on tire wear so if the car doesn't pull, and the tire wear is not excessive, AND the customers main concern is to align to prolong tires and save money... maybe let that one go. After all it may be more expensive to fix than the minor reduction in tire life costs.
I try to be adaptable to the situation. What I do is really based on the customers goal.
Not to be disrespectful but everything is "good enough" or not good enough. In spec or out of spec. Every spec on the car.
Looks like a team of scientists from a science fiction movie with all those masks & grinding shields , overkill
This is what needed to be done to allow students to come to class in person at the community college during covid19 times.
The alternative was to talk about it on zoom....
@@paulkelley86 hi sir
I need spc camber bolts
Please send ur mail id
Dude. What the full mask and shield.
Dude, community College open for in person lab during the worst covid lockdowns.
Whether or not I agree with the policy's, I am an employee and it's not my call. Conform or sell students out for online only instructions.
Hopefully that crap is over though. Been a long time.
@@paulkelley86 I agree policies are ridiculous if you look at the actual facts nothing could stop the virus
face shields and face diapers You gotta be kidding me
Community College during covid Chooch, we did what we had to do to stay in person rather than online. I'm the guy who teaches the class not the person who makes the policies. Pretty rough for the students doing manual labor though. Luckily that policy has been lifted.
Thanks and I feel sorry for the sheep wearing masks in an already dirty ass environment lol