HOW TO IDENTIFY U.S. JET AIRLINERS - A detailed look at America's first four-engine jetliners!
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- Опубліковано 20 лют 2022
- The Boeing 707, Douglas DC-8, and Convair 880/990 ushered-in U.S. commercial jet service in the late 1950s, but all looked very similar. We explain the identifying features of each aircraft and how to easily tell them apart.
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You know it’s going to be a good day when you start it with Mike Machat
Every meeting with Mike Machat is a good one: informative, relaxed, a pleasure to the eye (beautiful planes in beautiful pictures) and brain. No music, no special effects, just "plane" discussions about our common preffered subject. Congratulations, Mike, and thank you for sharing your passion with us!
Really appreciate your comment - means a lot, thanks!
When I was a kid my grandmother flew home to Sweden for a visit. The first leg was by American Electra out of Providence, RI. We picked her up when she returned to Idelwild on an American 707. This was about 1960 when all American Airlines aircraft had that aluminum and red-orange livery. I remember standing on that very same observation deck mesmerized by the activity taking place before us. Fast forward 50 years, my wife and I flew from Hartford to St. Martin via San Juan. The final leg of that trip was aboard an American 757 wearing that same livery, now termed “retro”. It was a stunning jet right down to the name “Astrojet” painted on the tail, very much remembered and admired by me. Thanks for the memories, Mike.
Awesome! 🤠
Great comment, thanks Rick, and I saw that same retrojet AA 757 flying the exact same approach into JFK as the original 707 Astrojets did when I was a kid. Gave me the chills just watching it - and much quieter than the 707!
Thank you, thoroughly enjoyed every minute, learned a lot. I grew up near Westover AFB in Mass and saw and heard so many military air craft flying above. We once had a special outing in 1958, on a Sunday we went to Bradley Field in CT and got to watch from the outside observation deck the big props coming and going. I was in heaven. Precious memories sparked by your images and stories. Thank you again, take care and peace out.
My first airplane ride was out of Bradley Field about 1965. Piedmont CV-240. Noisy and a lot of vibration..
Nice job! Thanks pointing out the "oh by the way" the Boeing 720. There is always a distractor in the lesson plan. Loved the highly polished "bare metal" look of some of the airline paint schemes. If my memory is correct, the 880 engines were commercialized CJ805-3 version of the military J79 turbojet, which powered the F-104 Starfighter, F-4 Phantom II, A-5 (RA-5C) Vigilante, and the B-58 Hustler. Good for the military, but not for airline economics as you pointed out. A Convair UC-880 aircraft, was used by the US Navy at the Naval Air Test Center, Patuxent River, for Tomahawk cruise missile testing and refueling aircraft procedures (hose / drogue & probe technique, during late 80s - early 90s).
I was astounded to learn about the aft-fan engine, would have never imagined that in the progression! Seems it did the trick.
😳🤣
James, thanks for the memories! I was in VQ4 at Patuxent, in 88-91, and I remember seeing it parked out by the theatre? It looked pretty ripe like it hadn't been used for some time, weathered, blown tires etc. No idea what it was, at the time I couldn't i.d. it! I was an airplane nerd, I would wander PDX and KHIO for fun as a youngin, and heck, I joined the Navy to fly. I hadn't ever seen one of these. It was so big, yet so small. I kinda shrugged it off as it wasn't so cool as all the other things I had been seeing (i.e.V-22 pre forward flight etc.). I remembered thinking it seemed unexpected to see that type at a Navy base. I didn't know until seeing one in MSFS decades later what it was. And now, thanks to you all, what it was used for!
Great comment, thanks James, and yes, the 880's GE engines were indeed civvie J79s. With so many airlines flying Pratt & Whitney powered jets, having the GEs also made things more complex for maintenance and training integration, not to mention the fuel burn. I remember seeing photos of the Navy's UC-880 during the A/R tests. Thanks for watching!
Living in San Diego an seeing the 880/990 finishing a test flight on approach to Lindbergh Field from my home was quite amazing. Lindbergh Field was right next to the CONVAIR plant at Laurel Street & Pacific Highway. First Boeing Jet to spot at Lindbergh was UNITED/WESTERN B720. What fun it was to literally walkout to the fenced gate an see all the activities.
Wow! I knew Douglas stretched the DC 8 and was vaguely aware that the 707 series wasn't "stretched" but I never noticed the difference in ground clearance. I remember seeing a few stretched 8's taking off from the observation decks at the air ports (back when they had observation decks) and was a little concerned that those stretched 8's were going to bump their tails. Pilots knew what they were doing and adjusted their take off roll accordingly.
That got me reminiscing over take offs in various passenger jets. The most pleasant was the L1011. That was a comfortable and elegant plane. Almost like a porch glider swing. The 727 was the most "fun" especially out of LaGuardia, pedal to the metal. My first jet flight was a 707 in 1970 coming home for Christmas break. Pilot made the turn onto the runway and set the brakes and ran up the engines. He popped the breaks and we lurched forward. I had no idea that the wing flex was that extreme with the engines moving up and down and that it looked like the wings were flapping. 747 reminded me of flying around in someone's very large living room. Smooth takes off, solid landings. I don't think any 747 flight ended with us bouncing down the runway.
I have always loved the first generation of American commercial jet transports with their sleek looks, massive size and powerful (and loud) engines. A real joy to observe in flight or on the ground as well as taking a trip on. Stunning photos and informative narration make for another excellent video. Thank you Mike for putting this together for all your viewers to enjoy.
Belated thanks, Glenn - I'm sure you and I watched the very same aircraft on their approach into Idlewild/JFK!
What a pleasant way to start the week with another interesting presentation Mike! Thanks for sliding in a plug for the 720 model of the 707 family (pun intended). One small very insignificant correction - some 720s had two overwing emergency exits. The 720-051B models were configured this way. These were originally sold to Northwest Orient. The American Airlines 720-023Bs had just one emergency exit. The 720s were the true thoroughbreds of the 707 type. The maximum operating Mach number (MMO) was 0.90 and the design dive Mach number (MD) was 0.95. As far as I know no 707/720 ever went supersonic as did the Douglas DC-8 (If anyone knows differently I would love to hear about it). The 720 had a pretty steep drag rise above 0.85 Mach. The fastest I’ve been in a 720B was 0.92 during a flutter test. This was in a moderate dive. I was very privileged to assist in the ferrying of two former Middle East Airlines 720Bs from the UK to Mojave in the mid 1990s. I won’t forget the inquisitive radio calls from the “modern” Airbus and Boeing airliners crossing the Atlantic below us as we booted it at 0.89 Mach at FL420. As you pointed out our fuel burn would have been at least twice that of the twin-jets below. Looking forward - as always - to another gem from you Mike.
Wonderful information, thanks!
Thanks Mike...We're never to old to learn.
In the early 1960s I was a little kid growing up in Park Ridge, IL near Chicago's O'Hare Field. I have happy, if not very noisy, recollections of all these first-generation jet airliners flying overhead into and out of O'Hare. And it seems, as a rite of passage at this time, every male kid in the area received as a birthday gift the Revell Boeing 707, AA "Astrojet" plastic kit. Great story on these first U.S. jetliners and thanks for sharing!
Built that kit! Thanks for the comment.
As a kid, I lived in a smaller market that had 2 Delta CV-880s come through every day. I made my mom take me out to watch ‘em. They were and remain my favorite - what a beautiful plane it was.
Agreed 100% - nothing equaled the elegant yet racy lines of the Convair 880!
What gives a Turbofan the thrust bump is that the Bypass Duct has a venturi cross- section (air is mildly compressed, then shoots out rearwards with greater pressure.
THIS is what helped with lifting capacity, fuel consumption, higher AOA on takeoff, lower landing speeds.
The "cooler air" merely helped with the noise .
Helping make a good explanation better.
Just a fantastic presentation about a wonderful era in aviaton! My favorite jets in this period are by far, the 880/990 series of which I saw many while attending Park Lane Elementary in Denver in the early '70s. The school was located right under the approach to one of the east/west runways! Ports of Call charter airlines flew 990s during that time and those loud, smokey beasts disrupted many a lesson to my great delight! I also had the privilege of seeing the Navy's UC880 when I was stationed at Eglin AFB Florida from 1988-1990. Thanks for creating this video and please keep them coming. Cheers!
Appreciate the comment, thanks!
Thanks so much for this video, Mike. Fond memories of watching these jets in and out of Memphis International as a boy. Fantastic!
Such a great production, you present the human side of these machines so very well! Thank you.
Thanks for the great videos. I worked as an aircraft mechanic at the TWA base in Kansas City from 1989 to 2004. Unfortunately they retired their last 707 just prior to my hiring on. I did ask one of the "old heads" about the Convairs. He told me that the pilots loved them, as they were the hot rods of the fleet, but they were maintenance nightmares, due to the GE engines and associated systems.
Great comment, thanks!
For over 60 years I thought the HF antenna on the 707's vertical stab was the pitot tube. It always struck me as an odd place to put it. Thanks for finally setting me straight, and thanks for your wonderful videos.
Someone must have told me when those came out, I always knew that as the antenna, probably my uncle in the USAF. Cheers!
Appreciate the comment!
My first commercial flight was a UA DC8 between ORD and JFK. Felt like the King of Siam as a 12 year old boy. Even riding coach I wore a sport coat, tie and slacks with polished black shoes. It’s what you did. Was fortunate to ride TWAs last scheduled 707 flight c. 1981 between BWI and Albuquerque. It also happened to be that skipper’s retirement flight. He greased the landing, and the airport fire department had a salute water cannon in place. Awesome.
Wonderful comment, thanks!
Another of the first airliner models I built as a kid, was of a Delta 990 that my grandfather and I built together while I was visiting him and my grandmother on their farm in rural South Carolina. He was 16 years old when the Wright Brothers flew. And, lived long enough to see the 747 and Concorde fly. Great video on an underappreciated subject.
Appreciate the comment, thanks!
Great one again...I especially liked the drawing at 16:50! Your painting of the 707 prototype rolling is always impressive like the actual roll.
Many thanks!
When I was 11 or 12 very simple concept for me for American jets the 707 had the nose in exact middle of the fuselage and the same from the 707 all the way to the 727 and 767, the 757 was the first with the nose sloping down. The DC-8 had the nose sloping down from the cockpit windows with 2 smaller windows above the main row or windows plus the unmistakable air intake holes on bottom of nose, the Convair series 880/990 had a triangular side winshield at each side, nose sloping down as the DC-8 and the 990 Coronado version had the 4 wing pods 2 on each wing aft. I could tell these planes in the dark!
Once again, excellent video. How about a video of the cameras that you have used for your aviation photography?
Wow,great question. Began with a Pentax Spotmatic, then Canon A1s until digital. Thanks for watching!
Your career is a testimony to the America we grew up in...you could dream and wind up
in life exactly where you wanted to be if you worked hard enough
Really appreciate the comment, thanks!
@@celebratingaviationwithmik9782 heres a small example: how many built a model of the X-1...then got to meet and fly with Yeager?
I’ve always noticed differences between all these jet airliners, but never really understood what they were until now. And beautiful artwork as always. That huge interior with the starlight windows would be a dream come true for travel.
Many thanks, and agreed on that 707 interior!
I had no idea that there was a 720 until I boarded one about 40 years ago and looked at the information pamphlet. I was very confused until I saw this video. Thanks for clearing up that mystery! Haha!
When I went to Vietnam I flew from Anchorage Alaska to Japan on a Convair 990 Coronado with the speed pods with flying tiger lines
Thanks for the great video. I have always thought that the early four engine jetliners had an elegance that is somehow lacking in more modern jets. I am not an artist and do not really know how to describe these thoughts except maybe "balance and proportion". And of course, air travel then was elegant as well. Times change, casual and efficient is the the new way, but it is good to look back and see how we got where we are today.
Wonderful as usual Mike!! The past was so much more interesting in many ways!!
Thank you Paul, and I couldn't agree more!
To me when I was a kid, the Boeing was frowning, the Douglas was smiling, and the Convairs didn't exist except in models. But if your timing was right, you could be driving north around Merced and Atwater on U.S. Hwy 99 and be right in line with the B-52s on final into Castle AFB about 5 minutes apart. The way they followed so closely along Hwy 99, as a boy I used to think the highway was their emergency field if they couldn't make the runway.
I also remember seeing my Grandfather get on a TWA Lockheed 1049 in Fresno, California at Hammer Field before they built the Air Terminal on the other side of the runways around 1957-58. My first commercial flight would've been June 1964 in a United Airlines Convair 440 Fresno to LA to connect with my first jetflight, a United Airlines Douglas DC-8 LA to Detroit. Our family vacation that year involved us flying to Detroit, taking a taxi to the Pontiac assembly plant and picking up a brand new 1964 Pontiac Grand Prix which we drove around the US clockwise from Detroit. That was a great summer vacation that year for sure.
That was a grand tour, wowie! 🤠
Thanks for another excellent aviation history lesson, Mike! I did not know the Russians flew their SST before the Concorde!
I recall in the early 1970s, Nixon's Airforce One B707 barely made it into our airport here in Tallahassee, Fl. The city soon expanded our runways to handle the bigger liners. But we aren't a major hub, and use mostly medium haul jetliners and turboprops. In the late 1990s, I worked gate security at the airport, when Pres. Bush's B747 Airforce One landed. Man, seemed the whole huge window wall was filled with that airplane! Big difference withour usual MD80 and B737 liners.
Wonderful comment, thanks Lance!
I've actually been on the NASA 990. Back in the early/mid 90's when I was a new B-2A Crew Chief a few of us were out at Edwards AFB for some training and were able to get a private tour of the NASA Dryden facility. Got to see the retractable shuttle landing gear mount in the center fuselage. Also got to crawl around inside "Balls 8", the original B-52 "Mother Ship".
Excellent as always! Brought back momories too. Thank you for this 😊
Enjoyed this vid very much. Thank you!
Thank you Mr. Machat for a very interesting and informative discussion on the different jetlines. As a kid in the era I could identify a lot of the military aircraft from around the world. but for commercial aircraft there were only to types. Jets and Props.😊
Appreciate the comment, thanks!
Thanks Mike, it took me a while to sort out the differences between the DC-8 and the 707, but my telltale was always the chipmunk cheek air inlets on the nose of the DC-8. I later noticed the BIG difference between the engine pylons and it was easy after that. It's not like you see a lot of either one anymore, but it's nice to be able to tell them apart. Always enjoyable subjects and videos. Thanks
Appreciate the comment, thanks!
The Convair 990 is my favorite. The big stove pipe engine nacelles and those beautiful anti-shock speed pods. Preferably in American Airlines livery. -- Kurt Burgess
It is interesting the fact that Douglas choose to do some work in the open, taking advantage of the nice weather in Long Beach
Excellent detail explanation of features of each of them that are probably little known. With the exception of the Russian jets none of which were owned by any country outside the Iron Curtain, I've had the good fortunate to have flown on them all starting in January 1963 on a newly delivered CV-880 to TWA between Boston and Idlewild New York, followed by Pan American 707-121, then DC-8-30s, and Intercontinental 321Bs. This also included included Caravelles of United and Air France, A second 1967 flight on a badly worn out TWA 880 and a MAC substitute "on call" contract Modern Air CV-990 ex American. Back then flying was very elegant and people dressed up. You mention the Electra which still flies today at a few places on which I took a number of flights. We actually had a Boeing 707-138B "on call" MAC charter flight fitted with jammed together 159 seats of Standard Airways operate a trans Pacific via Anchorage come in one afternoon but operators were allowed to carry "route support" equipment which included boxes of frozen meals for the return trip which limited belly cargo capacity such that all of the seats couldn't be filled.
I returned from Vietnam on a Flying Tigers DC-8-63 which got diverted into Narita Japan because of fog at Yokota and a few of just got off and helped find our baggage in the dark as they didn't bring out a ground power unit. Captain helped us through Japanese customs and put us in cab for Yokota. Ten days later I continued on a Trans International -63 back to McChord via Anchorage where I observed engine reverse thrust in flight descent deployment prior to landing. At nearly 78 I do very little commercial flying these days. It just ISN'T FUN ANYMORE!
Wonderful comment Zack, thanks, and we share some amazing experiences! Agreed 100% about modern air travel (we're about the same age), and I was stationed at Misawa, Japan in the late-1960s. My MAC charters were a Flying Tigers 707-320CF Travis-Anchorage-Yokota (I remember being disappointed it wasn't a DC-8-63!), but then got my wish coming home on a Trans International -63 back to Travis. The leg from Tachikawa to Misawa was flown with Air America DC-4s! All the best.
Great going over in history!
Thanks for sharing 👍
Great stuff, thanks for sharing your infinite knowledge of the subject, found this video when I tried to figure out what plane they were flying in the cable series PAN AM. I still remember when I first saw the 747 jumbo near the Verrazano bridge in Brooklyn back in the day! That distinct sound from the engines was iconic.
Thanks for the comment and glad I could help. Yes, that was a Boeing 707 in the PAN AM series, and I saw my first 747 at JFK in 1970. I was driving past the PAA 'umbrella terminal' and saw the name PAN AMERICAN on what I thought was a second-story addition to the building until I realized it was the airplane!
@@celebratingaviationwithmik9782 Ha ha ha!!!!
Great video explaining modern history! Good job 👍🏻
Many thanks!
Great vlog as always! The 720 and 990 you could fly from shorter rwys and high elev airports.
Another great one Mike.
Thanks Max, and Revell "Gift Sets" coming next week!
I remember looking at those "carrots" on the back of the 990 wing while riding in a SwissAir version.
Mike, how do you always come up with a "Home Run?" Until today I always thought the HF antenna on the 707 was a pitot-static tube, thanks for the education. All those jets were, to me, flying art---also the print ads are so 60's. Always liked the 990, it just had that look with the shock cones. Maybe a vid on the architecture/design of "space age jet ports" of the late 50's to the mid 60's. Funny, as I was watching this, I was also working on a model kit of the Allison 501-D13, "so many parts." Thanks again for your time, work and great narration.
Have you seen the Canadian Agent Jay-Z UA-cam showing a cutaway Allison 501, it's spectacular, he rebuilds J-79s, LM-1500-2500. Great Channel!
Another great presentation Mike. Thank you. In the 1980s I travelled on some very secondhand B707s. It was always interesting to see how many engines had turbo compressor hoods and whether or not they had ventral additions to their tails, but I never understood their significance.
Good point, and there were three different designs for the 707's ventral fins depending on model. They were added after landing accidents with the 320 Intercontinental in Europe when the nose-up attitude on approach caused lack of control authority for the vertical fin. Ventrals solved that problem. Some 1950s fighters (F-105) had them as well. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for the explanation. I always wondered why some B707s were different.
Mike that was an awesome presentation. As a babyboomer and airliner enthusiast much of this was familiar and fun to see again....my interest never evolved into being a pilot as did yours. This is why I'm basically in awe of your talents. Thanks Mike! Jim in DTW & YPI (sometimes lol)
Many thanks!
Awesome video & topic Mike, Living my whole life under (22L/R - 4L/R) in Nassau County under Idlewild/ JFK, afforded me lessons every few minutes of the different types of jet liners and their liveries. (I was just over flown by a Breeze Airways E-jet so its always change.
As a young person in the 60's the louder the better and those turbo-jet liners were ear shattering - just a delight - I am sure I was the only one thinking that then - as an aside with all the Revel 707 & DC8 models available not to forget Hawk with their CV-880 model i would be able to rattle off each type as they over flew my home like a pro in the tower - great stuff Mike continued success Sir
Fabulous comment, thanks Walter! We were distant neighbors - I lived near Sunrise Highway in Rockville Centre, right under the Europo-bound departures from Runway 13R. And yes, those early 707s were ear-splitting flying the downwind-to-base turn for 22L over our house at about 1,500 feet. As for that exquisite Hawk 880 kit, I built it in Delta colors, and found a promo version (came in a plain cardboard box) with stunning Northeast decals. Loved that model, and thanks for watching!
Walter R -- we likely could throw a rock to each other. From '72 to '96 I lived just off Hook Creek & Merrick Rd. Now in N. Vallley Stream just off Central Ave. 22L & 4R always a presence.
I well remember the pre-cable days where the passing aircraft interfered with TV reception (for those not familar with the area, planes were overhead about 850'). The jet sound was earsplitting.
El Al also flew 707's with Rolls Royce Conway engines.
Yes, that is correct. Thanks for watching!
Just excellent, Mike. Can I suggest a topic? I’ve always wondered why it was that the 707 could not be stretched while the DC-8 was stretched several times. I flew to Europe from Vancouver once on a stretched Air Canada DC-8. I was in the back and when I looked towards the front of the plane it went on and on and on. The 707’s never did that and I’ve always wondered why. I bet there’s an interesting story there of the engineering choices made by the two companies. Thank you for your terrific videos. It’s obvious you love the chance to share your knowledge. We’re lucky to have you.
That's exactly why. Mike could probably fill you in more completely...
Great topic, Google isn't always forthcoming with all questions!
I read years ago that the answer is the length of the main landing year. When Donald Douglas first saw the 707 he remarked "they can't stretch it". DC-8 sits higher, allowing a longer fuselage.
@@philipcollura2669 Yes, that's correct. Thanks for watching!
Thanks for the comment, and the answer was in the length of the main landing gear struts and overall main gear design. The DC-8 had a slight nose-down attitude on the ground from its taller main gear, allowing for proper ground clearance of a stretched fuselage on takeoff and landing. The 707, as great as it was, sat much lower, and perfectly level on its landing gear.
A personal 990 wouldn't be too shabby lol. Great video Mike
Many thanks!
Great video! There once was a variant of the 707 called the 707-020. Of course no airline would want to operate a "lesser" variant of the 707 compared to the 707-120 or other variants. So the 707-020 was duly renamed the 720. Perception is reality!
I think he mentioned that.
It was such a great time in America when we had several aerospace companies capable of building jet airliners.
Now we have, maybe, one?
Excellent point, Alan. At the end of WWII, there were five airliner builders in the U.S. plus countless overseas companies. Douglas was king, then Lockheed, Convair, Martin, and Boeing until the jet age, when the order reversed. Jumbo-jet era had Boeing, McDonnell Douglas, Lockheed, and Airbus in Europe. Today, only Boeing and Airbus remain. Thanks for watching!
@Galileo7of9 and that, too. One of the consequences of deregulation...
@@alantoon5708 I guess so. It however seems to me that finance alone doesn't make someone stop fighting in airplanes.
There are plenty of people that wouldn't be able to afford a flight back then, but you don't see them fight.
However you also see enough people that probably would be able to afford a flight back then and they'd probably fight on a plane nowadays.
@Galileo7of9 I'm so sick of this era, can't wait for it to end, it's miserable putting up with this bull!
Great video again, Mike! But Lindbergh was not the first on the Atlantic route, those were Alcock and Brown in their Vickers Vimy in 1919 😉
First non-stop New York to Paris like the Pan Am 707. Thanks for watching!
First to solo the Atlantic.
Your channel is brilliant.
Many thanks!
Another give away to know 707 from DC 8- The inboard engines on DC 8 were further out on the wing than the 707 and the pair of engines were closer together on the Douglas.
Mr. Machat great videos, you and I are probably very close in age I was born January 8, 1949, I think you might be about 3 years older based on you comment and pic of Idlewild in 1958!
I always enjoyed plane spotting at the old Downtown KC Airport in the 1960s. I'd hang out at the north end of the approach, next to a Grumman Cougar mounted on a pole, when I wasn't watching from the back of the Air Freight buildings on the south end of the field. It wasn't until later in life that I learned about the reasons for all the different designs of the many types. Also, I didn't know anything about how certain wings were more suited to different environments, because the United States has the same general climate coast-to-coast. BOAC, on the other hand, frequently utilized their planes based on the climate found at their varied destinations. Flying into Frankfurt or Paris was a far different experience from landing in Sudan or South Africa, based on altitude and heat.
What a fantastic subject! Love the video and the channel! You probably already know this, but there is a UA-cam channel called "Classic Airliners and Vintage Pop Culture" that has a bunch of old airline promo and advert material that is great if folks want to see some of the things you mention in the video. Thanks again for such a great job on the subject, and as always God bless you and yours and thanks again for all you do! Take care!
Thanks Martin!
Excellent, Mike. I am forwarding to our new mutual friend, Jay Miller, who enjoys these videos.
Thanks Charles!
Another absolutely fabulous presentation, Mike. Your thoroughness is mind-boggling! May I make another suggestion? This is prompted by my visit to the RAF Museum north of London. The English Electric Lighting fighter/interceptor was displayed with its unique vertically stacked turbojet engines hidden. This gorgeous aircraft was displayed showing only its circular intake and shock cone, which is about as common as they come. The unique stacked exhaust nozzles were not visible !
So, perhaps a presentation on jet engine placement? Civilian vs military? The A-10 and the HondaJet are other interesting examples. Perhaps a two-parter, civilian and military? (Don't you love people that tell you how to do your job?) That said, I'm a fan and look forward to your presentations.
Appreciate the comment, thanks Bert, and neat suggestion about a jet engine placement video. 'Saw that very same Lightning at the RAF Hendon Museum in 1983, and loved that they had a pilot figure and ladder next to the cockpit for scale. That was a large jet!
@@celebratingaviationwithmik9782 Agreed, but the placement of the aircraft did not disply its uniqueness. I wanted to find a curator to inform them of their idiocy, but my wife calmed me down, as usual.
The story behind the Boeing 720 (why it didn't follow the 7X7 pattern, for example -- 717) is interesting and somewhat convoluted. United Air Lines initially had decided to go with the Douglas DC-8, instead of the Boeing 707, but also was in need of a smaller, lighter airplane for use at regional airports. After having invested so much money in the DC-8, UAL couldn't admit that it needed the Boeing product after all. It was decided that if Boeing would produce shorter version of the 707 airplane and if they would give it a new model number, UAL would buy it. The model number "707-020" was rejected by UAL and the number, "Boeing 717" had already been used as the civil designation for the military KC-135A, and the Boeing 727 was already in development, so the "new aircraft" was dubbed the Boeing 720. The Boeing 720B, with its Pratt & Whitney JT3D turbofans, came along quickly, and almost all of the 720s already operating were converted to the "B" model -- with the exception of those operated by UAL which remained in their original JT3C turbojet-powered form until they exited the UAL fleet.
It is interesting to note that most all of the airlines operated with 3 - 3 seating in the coach cabin (6 abreast). One exception was Continental Airlines which operated both their Boeing 707-324Cs and Boeing 720-024Bs with 3 - 2 seating in coach (5 abreast -- 2 seats on the left side; 3 seats on the right side). The 707-324C was configured with 42 First Class and 88 Coach seats, back before the One Pass loyalty program was invented, so people in First Class had paid full price to sit there -- no upgrades!
All 707s were built in Renton, WA so the first flight was not from Seattle as said early in the video.
Yes, that is correct - I used "Seattle" as the main city in the U.S. (That photo is actually the 707-320 taking-off from Boeing Field.) Thanks for watching!
The cockpit windows for me were always the biggest clue as to the manufacturer of the plane given the cockpit windows carried over into other models. One curious bit with Boeing planes is inside the cockpit even though eyebrow windows aren't fitted, the wells for them are still present inside and used as mounting points for other equipment.
Great point on the Boeing cockpit windows, thanks!
My father used to take me to Midway Airport. We'd watch planes from the observation deck. How many airports have O-decks today?
The airfoil profile of the 720, at least inboard and toward the leading edge, was different than the 707. Hard to see if you aren't looking for it, but if you compare them side by side you can readily see it and recognize the difference every time afterwards. I don't remember why they were different.
Yes, and 'forgot to mention the 40-degree wing sweep on the inboard section only of the fanjet versions. Thanks for watching!.
We might not have been first, but we were the best. Look at how many KC-135’s and their variants are still in service.
4:25 - as long as landing with only three turning is no big deal!
Very interesting, It is sad the Avro CF-102 was ahead of is time! (it was cancelled by Canadian government and Avro was to concentrate on its Orenda turbojet and CF-100 jet fighter programs)
Another great presentation Mike.... kudos.... always liked the DC-8s over the 707s.... just more visually attractive and elegant looking.... also perhaps because both national airlines, Trans Canada and Canadian Pacific, had them at the time.... only later did 707s, which looked "clunky" to me, flew with Wardair.... never ever personally saw a Convair 880 or 990..... but I wish I had....
I bet those CJ-805s screamed, I was astounded to learn they had aft fans and were also used on Caravelles.
One of the other reasons why the 990 wasn’t successful was because it didn’t meet the expectations that Convair promised to American. AA had envisioned an all first class service on transcons on the 990, and all coach transcons on the 707s. The 990s were expected to be much faster than the 707s, but when the speed pods in the wings were used as fuel tanks, they vibrated, and the plane had to fly at lower speeds. It also ended up not having the range as promised, so it couldn’t fly across the U.S. in the westbound direction. So American continued to use 707s and 720s on transcons, and the inaugural flight for the 990 was Idlewild to Chicago in 1962. Occasionally, the 990s were scheduled on eastbound transcons, but their poor performance led American to not take delivery of all 25 it ordered, operating only 19 of them. AA’s disappointment with the 990 caused them to retire them from the fleet after only five years of service, in 1967.
Great comment, thanks, and I was fortunate to fly on an American 990 right at the end in September 1967. It flew from JFK to Detroit, Chicago, and SFO. A great ride!
5:30 - If the crew had only known to cap it at FL 250 they MAY have made NYC.
A then there was the dazzling beautiful VC10 😎
The Delta 880 you see here, was sold, and became the Lisa Marie belonging to none other than Elvis.
Boeing got the planform spot on first time out,Grandad of all except our Concorde ,hats off the them,the 707 will always be my favourite American airliner the famous scream of its engines or a Mike long trail of soot on some,great channel all the best 👍🏻😊
Anyone else see the Convair B-58 nose in the Convair 880?
What one was Elvis's plane.? I think the convair
Did Tex Avery draw that jet at 16 minutes? He did a real cute cartoon long ago about this. Little Johnny Jet - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Johnny_Jet
That's a Machat original created for the U.S. Air Force Test Pilot School at Edwards. They requested that I not get too technical in my presentation. Perfect for this video!
Were those early airliners really more comfortable with all smiles, playing cards on desks and so forth. My experience on planes is nothing but terrible, in cramped seats and you're dying to get off. Maybe they were showing first class seats in the promotions.
Great question, and yes, I'd have to say traveling by jet airliner in the early 1960s was indeed a very different (and more luxurious) experience than it is today. For example, those first Boeing 707s carried as few as 120 passengers in the same length fuselage as a Boeing 737-900 that carries 180 crammed-in passengers today. There was also absolutely no security as we know it back then - great for ease of boarding in the terminal, but not so great with many political hijackings. Appreciate the comment and thanks for watching!
I liked the 720s.
Was that pic he referenced as a 707 with Western Airlines livery really a 720? Those are what Western flew primarily, having mainly mid-ranged routes such as LAX to MSP.
@@markodom3841 As Mike said, the 707-020, the shortened-fuselage commuter model, got its model number changed to ''720'' which sounded catchier to the Boeing marketing people. The wife of my Brothers' friend was a stewardess for Western. A real neat lady. She died too young from breast cancer.
u didnt say much of the 707 with the larger wing with 3 trailing edge flaps on each wing.
Seattle Seafair where the Boeing 707 did the barrel roll was not a "ski boat" race it was the Gold cup Unlimited Hydroplane championship race the hydroplanes were powered by World War II fighter plane engines Rolls-Royce and Packard Merlins and Allison V12 ,s I'd like to see you water ski behind one LOL !
I said "speed boat race."
What about Alcock and Brown in 1919?
Yes, and I was referring to the New York-to-Paris route that Lindbergh flew non-stop. Thankls for watching.
In 1970 flew to Europe in a TWA 707. Very cramped narrow interior compared to current aircraft.
I’d have to research aircraft interior dimensions to be precise.