Ian that is a very true statement about bob but not to take away from him yours are great also an also I would like to add someone else to the list to go along with both of you . Kamon . Ian I have been doing a rain dance for you . Lol hope it works. Keep them up they are really helping us small groups out .
Hey thanks for doing the experiment. And also doing it well, covering several variations of the method. I have done this the odd time, but not enough to properly assess things so good to have your results 👍.
I did this experiment last year...with varied success....nucs with 2 frames of brood took care of the cells great....single frame of brood nucs did not...and the reason was the bees covered the brood and left the cup unattended in the cool nights....so to better that, it is best to embed the cell cup directly into the comb in the middle of the brood. . Bees will take care of the cups better and finish them well. For normal operation, 48 hour cells are probably not the way to go.....but ...there is a reason for using them.....in Europe it's a bigger thing than it is in the US. Beekeepers from all over travel to one location with their 48 hour grafted cells to "trade" with other beekeepers. The cells (day 6 actually) have just about all the royal jelly they will ever need, the larvae is not as succeptable to jostling as they are swimming in RJ nor temperature variations which makes transport very easy. The larvae can sustain temp drops to 65°F and still be viable queens.....so for those beekeepers looking to bring in new genetics to their apiaries to mate with their own drone stock, this is a very good and inexpensive option.
I was very much looking forward to watching you do this experiment after I was at the Hive Life Conference. Thank you for doing this and showing the video!
Hey Bob that system does make a lot of sense and saves time . I’m glad I’m watching this since it will make things so much simpler when I start grafting. I also want you to know for the first time I realize we have sourwood trees in Prince George, Virginia. This is the first . I also was able to rob two handfuls of seed pods in hopes to sprout some new trees.
Above I'm gonna tell you one thing I truly enjoy watching your videos because you're so good about explaining stuff to what you're doing and everything I'm 81 years or I would be trying to do some what you're doing but I just can't get out and handle it like I used to enjoy it anyway Uncle rob said that
I keep going back to your channel and finding all these nuggets of wisdom 👍 thanks for sharing your business with the world 👍 it's always appreciated thank you 👍
First of all, you’ve got the BEST name! ‘Bob Binnie the Big League Bee Broker’ (maybe a stretch? Offensive even? …well…then…pick your OWN name!)…and GET OFF MY LAWN! Okay- that’s all the stupid I have…I’m an old guy that’s new at bees. I am a sheep breeder for some time but the old ‘meat sack’ is breaking down and sheep are getting heavier and faster than they used to be. I’d like to transition into about 300 bee hives over a 6-8 year period as I wind down the sheep operation. This kind of video is perfect! Thanks for your expertise and experience!
scientist here. I have been experimenting with what i call reverse grafting and left two i did in above my cell finisher after the 2 day switch and the bees were building well, queen was in the bottom box, so i figured id pull the queen and a few frames and put her in a nuc, left the cells in there. She hatched well and it worked so well the rest of the season I do what you are talking about here, drop couple of frames with a newly reverse grafted 48 hour cell or two on board ; means i dont have to go back and check for emerged queens and the bees seem to accept them without issue. I have also done what is here, as soon as there's a pool of rj in the cup i drop them in with some frames(with no young eggs/brood) in a box. Usually 2 per box for surety.
Really glad you tried this on a bigger scale to look at the variables. Lots of verifying what I was seeing in the 16 colonies that I tried it on, but I had nothing to compare it too. Thanks for the time and energy you spent on this experiment.
Thanks for follow through !! Been waiting for you or kamon to try this , I will bee using this method in two weeks for my late splits going to be time saver I believe for me . I’ll do some xtra nucs to fill in ones don’t take , my queens done well I got in April from you , I’m grafting from one and with great success producing nice queens as well just an FYI god bless !
Happy Easter Bob and everyone! I need to do splits but it is nasty weather. I envy your sunshine there. Snow here tonight. Spring doesn't wanna be spring and my efforts are stretched with everything going on here and in the world. But this too shall pass....
If your goal is to build nice strong 5 frame colonies this is a great idea. Especially if done immediately so your cup has a 2 day jump on any rogue cells. Also new emerging bees are adding to the population during the waiting period for laying to start
You guys are a helluva lot smarter than me, I'm sure it's very feasible for you to do it this way and the God knows there is a huge demand for Queens, the more idiots like me try to start off in their 1st or 2nd season . We might be selling inferior Queens to yours, one Question in your Opinion what is the latest in the year you would start the traditional 22 days to raise a Queen, for personal use? Love your Videos keep them coming.
Thx for the video. I transfer very young uncapped swarm or supercede cells all the time. Usually by just transfering the frame but sometimes by cutting individual cells. As long as I do not damage the cell or handle so roughly that the contents drops out and lose the egg or very young larva the new nucs finished them out every time. Well except for the laying worker colony. They tore it out. But I just set up the queenless nucs with lots of fresh nectar, nurse bees and add the cell. I do not even wait overnight. I guess I never thought some might think 2 day old grafted cell would be a problem and I was doing it "wrong". My bees seem to know they do not have a queen almost immediately and they gladly accept and finish just about anything I give them.
I transfer the Q. C in the Queenless nucs when they are cupped at 5 days old.. And the last 9 years that I'm doing that , I'm very happy with this method. No difference at all between the Normal grafted Queens ( Stareter - finisher - nucs) which are transferred to the nucs when are 12 days old. In this way you gain about one week time.
Interesting! I think it's clear that leaving the cells until they're ready to be transferred to a NUC is the way to go. It's not that a nuc won't finish out a queen cell but often the tried and true methods work best, such as in this case.
Hi Bob, this is very interesting information, thank you!!! Look, I have received some information from france and from germany... The 24 hr cells are used in several ways: 1. at the beginning of the swarming period, the old queen must have clipped wings and the new cell is pushed in at a supercedure position. the old queen wants to leave with the swarm, falls to the ground and the swarm flies back into the hive after 30 minutes. 2. after the honey season, 2 months after the swarming period, a 24 hour cell is offered to every production colony again without taking the old queen out of the colony, so if the colony is no more satisfied with the old one, the new one will take over the colony. 30% of the production colonies have a new queen in the spring... unfortunately we have to fight for survival this year..., no honey, water everywhere and 44% mating.... otherwise we would try exactly those things! Pat
@@pachko5418 apparently it works with both.., it sounds very logic to me. Giving specific genetic, in specific positions, away from the swarm season... using the supercedure effect... Pat
Very interesting video. I couldn't help but notice the cement retaining walls in the background. That is a poured in place snap tie forming concrete wall. I have had much experience with that type of carpentry in the construction field. The MDO 3/4" x 4' x 8' plywood used in building that was a leftover on many a jobs with the contractor I worked for. Though slightly oiled for ease of release in stripping it was a great perk I utilized in making Beekeeping equipment for my own apairy in my spare time. There were yellow plastic inserts you could buy or get to plug up the snap tie holes drilled in the plywood. I would make sure to scrape, clean, or slightly power wash the used side to save wear and tear on my skil and table saw blades. Just a thought and observation. Great and interesting video on new ways to split and put time couple day old time sensitive queen cells into those 5 frame deep nucs or singles. Thanks Bob! 🐝
Thanks for doing this trial. This is some great information that can be used in my operation as an option for cell and queen production. I've found that to avoid the need to hunt down rogue cells, it's an extra step but, placing my splits above a QE on the queenright colony for a number of days will "age out" the brood, making it nearly impossible for the nuc to start those rogue cells once the nuc is placed in the mating yard. Thanks again, Bob!
I think the 2 day cells put into nucs at the same time the queen is removed are turning out OK because there is sufficient royal jelly in the cell to ensure the larva remains well fed even if it may be a few hours until the bees are properly queenless and actively looking after the cell.
Good morning Bob! So the nucs performed best with at least 2 frames of brood and we should introduce the cell when we collect the queen. That would even save a step, good deal. Thank you for the time you put into this.
I have used it a lot. Faster cykling. No need of finisher. Making nucs in the morning. Put in cells by lunch. Laying aa scheduled. Same precentage as 10 day cells to nuc.
Kent Williams reason for the 48hr cells (if I remember correctly) was when introducing a different race of queens than the mating nucs, they would tear down a lot of the ripe cells but if uncapped they would finish them.
Works good if the nuc is quite strong and it’s s not to early in the year, but it also need quite a lot of resources, the nuc will have 1,5 weeks older bees, which actually results in slower development. A queen that is put in one day prior to hatching will have first capped brood, right when the last old brood starts to hatch. So all brood is raised by young bees. Since the bees are younger and growing in numbers and having no ditch in the curve of hive population, there will be noo chilled brood too.
I did this into pretty packed mini mating nucs w a baby pollen patty and feed just to mess around and they finished off some beautiful cells that were awesome queens.
There's no such thing as nice bees! There's bees that will sting you on purpose and there's bees that will sting you out of spite. But rest assured, they'll all sting you....depending on their mood. It's not minding being stung that makes the difference. I mind.
Just a hobby of 14 hives in back yard. My bees are nice when I work them correctly. They haven't stung my neighbors or my family. I mow around them with no problems.
Random question..What do you use for smoker fuel and do you use something different between a quick task versus all day work? Great video and thanks for making the effort to put them out there!
We use pine straw and wood stove pellets. The same type of pine straw used in landscaping. We start out with a good fire with pine straw, add a fist full of wood pellets, more pine straw, another layer of pellets and finish with more pine straw so the pellets won't pour out when the smoker is pointed down. If done properly a 4x10 inch smoker will go for a couple of hours. On very quick tasks we just use pine straw. I used to use a lot of hay bailing twine when it was made from hemp. That worked great too.
I guess if you need to max out your time in a starter this will make a zillion queens in no time but I'm a fan of leaving them alone for 10 days. I can make much smaller nuc's - 1 frame of bees and brood.
Based on Kent's commentary one of the benefits is the number of cells you can get out of a cell builder colony. Based on the fact you are pulling the cells at 2 days you get process 3x as many cells out of one cell builder colony before it runs out of steam.
Excellent material. Seems like its a good idea but would take more time eliminating the rouge cells. Ive done this to rescue a hive. I took small pieces of wood (1inch long, thin) and drilled a small hole just big enough for the nipple of jzbz queen cup. Used hot wax to hold in place. When i find a queenless colony, i just pull one out and graft a few cells and set them directly over the top bars. Has worked well.
I didn't see many of the cells built with grafts placed between the frames. It seems those had "better" looking cells. Possibly due to having more access to all sides of the graft cup? Do you recall the % of those grafts that failed? I'm going to try it with 3 frame nuc (3 split deep) with 2 full frames of brood/bees (4 sides) and see what happens. Always learning!
The cells placed between the top bars did fine but we chose not to do that with the smaller nucs. There were a dozen or so of those and they were all successful. I would not do it in cooler weather.
Man I really wish I lived near you Bob Benny. Cuz I would totally quit my job and come work for you for a year easy. Not even sure if I'd care if I got paid.
Ha Bob great video thanks for doing it I always learn from u thankyou for taking your time to make the videos to help all of us u are wonderful have a blessed week. I have carnies and we are in a dearth I am in virginia, in a city there is no real fall flow here the carnies shut down so I have a hard time with inspection this time of year because I have real bad vision, I can not find the queens I would always look for small brood for the sign she is there, I say small brood if I see small brood they have the resorces to make a queen if they donot have one, i cant see eggs I am feeding 1-1 syrup to all my colonies that I started this year. anyway when they shut down I get to worring they all have died and I cant tell u have any words of wisdom to help me with this problem I do not explain very well so I hope u understand what I am trying to say and thanks for your reply in advance.
Hi Frances. I know it's tough when you can't see eggs. Our queens have slowed down a lot too. Richard Taylor, a famous beekeeper from a few decades ago, was once asked if he tried to re-queen colonies with failing queens. His answer was "I just run a few extra colonies and combine the failures in the fall".
Sorry to get off topic Bob but I have a question regarding the sourwood tree more specifically the bloom. When the nectar flow is over for the sourwood tree does the bloom fall off or will they remain on? How do you know for sure that the sourwood tree has stopped producing nectar for the year? Thank you as always for helping beekeepers like myself.
When viewing sourwood blooms from even a slight distance it can look like they are still blooming weeks after they are finished. When an individual bloom is finished it simply turns up on the stem instead of pointing down. The seeds are usually mature by late November. We watch the honey supers to tell when the flow is over. We check for color and taste. In our area this year the flow was zero so we didn't have to make much of a judgment.
What's the significance of the amount of royal jelly in the queen cup? I assume the amount of jelly from the starter hives would be about the same in all of the started queen cells. Might the placement of the uncapped queen cell into the NUC box allow R.J. to get consumed and not replaced by the nurse bees?
Although the majority of the royal jelly is fed in the first 48 hours, a shortage in the sealed cell could be a sign that the nuc did not continue to feed the cell properly.
I really appreciate your videos. In another one you were talking about people were fussing about you feeding the bees. Next time ask them if they would buy cows or goats and leave them without feeding them. If they did they would not have them long
I have a very good question. Which I'm pretty sure I already know the answer is going to be but I'm hoping to get a better answer than that. When in the season is the best time to start your first splits. I'm in Missouri crazy weather central.
Have you ever had a swarm to come out of your starter box I had the queen above the starter for two days to lay in a frame in timer box and after two days took her out of the time area to let her lay in rest of the box there on the second day after grafting I had a swarm to leave the starter box I have not got back into the hive yet will inspect tomorrow and see what may have happened. Thanks
@@bobbinnie9872 I was wrong she came out of the top box not the starter box they came out and then landed on the bottom of the starter then moved up into a tree and left my cells still looks good.
Does the length of the capped cell indicate the quality of the queen inside? A nice looking cell impresses everybody but does it necessarily indicate a superior queen inside? I've destroyed a bunch of puny looking cells just based on appearance...but often wondered if they would have made good queens.
Hi Mark. Puny cells can often result in inferior queens. Good queens can come out of average or moderate size cells but of course large, good looking cells are considered best.
Hi Bob, rain today so no bee work but I took your advice and removed 8 cells, leaving 2. Hopefully virgin will come back. Sometimes I think that they just find a nice Bo.
really interesting video, surprised such a high success with moving the delicate cells around at the 48 hour mark, also these would be emergency queens, which i am told are not as good as supercedure cells, but yeah looks good apart from knocking off the rogue cells, please do more experiments like such it was great video.
I'm a new beekeeper so I may not be correct in this. But are not emergency cells not generally made from older larvae? that's why they're not as good? These cells would be made from perfect age larvae so they should be perfect Queens.
These are not emergency cells. These are larvae grafted at the appropriate specific age. Emergency cells are never placed in a cell cup. Rather the bees float the larvae out from a regular cell. They generally end up smaller with a crook in the top. Also, the bees may chose older larvae.
I raised the queens, but I forgot to put a frame of pollen, and I did not put any pastes or substitutes, and 45 out of 48 succeeded, but I was surprised by the small size of the queens (almost the size of the worker) Is the reason for their smallness is the lack of pollen during breeding or the large number (48) ) Thanks
Your problem could be a lack of pollen. Another common mistake is not feeding thin sugar syrup or a lack of a nectar flow while the cells are being built.
Normally I put in a ripe cell ready to hatch within 24 hours which gives the nuc a laying queen in about twelve days. With a 48 hour cell the nuc is doing the finishing which frees up the cell builder but it takes the nuc much longer to have a laying queen.
Would also think that the nucs will be off to a slower start as they need to wait a week longer for a laying queen...tying up nuc boxes a week longer and having to commit brood to a nuc a week earlier.
@@bobbinnie9872 Saves some handling and labor but if bees or equipment are limited perhaps not for a small commercial operation....but great for hobbyists.
I'm happy with the 48 hour cells and have done it several times now. I don't see a difference unless they were raised from small units of less than three frames. Of course feeding and ample pollen are part of the needs.
hi Bob ,i tried this method, in my opinion the last round in the summer, is useful as it is possible to treat with dripped oxalic acid, but if there is an important flow of nectar they begin to clog the nests beacuse after 3 weeks there is not brood
When we find the royal lunch in the royal cups, does it humiliate that the king fell from the royal lunch and did not eat it well, does it mean that the queen is not good?
Looks like too much give and take using this 2 day cell method, particularly if you're installing them in mating boxes that are still capable of drawing other qcells off of their own brood frames like was done in this experiment. This resembles the same queen quality / timing that would come from doing a walk a way nurse bee split and a emergency queen situation. Miss finding one of those other qcells during that brisk inspection, and you really don't know what queen you have in there a few days later. First queen to hatch don't always win the colony. Too many times I've seen #1 and sometimes more sisters with her end up on a tree limb.....they had to give way to another queen that survived the blood letting. Bob, although I've never tried this experiment myself, I tend to agree with your last thoughts on it in this video. It can be done, but is it too much sugar for a dime ???
We've done it twice this season on large batches of strong nucs, that had been queenless overnight with good results. I think some keys are timing, strength of the nuc and good nutrition.
We don't refill the jar until we know we have a laying queen. With these we are actually going to transfer them into a single deep and give them a bucket and start growing them for winter.
@@bobbinnie9872 Thanks for the reply Bob. I have some fresh starts that I will be growing also in close to your environment. You are a BIG help with your information..
@@michaellavazza960 We've never had a problem. For more on this technique see our video "How We Produce Queens". ua-cam.com/video/c28O916sy48/v-deo.html
@@bobbinnie9872 Thanks for the reply. Everything is a month early this Spring. I'll be looking for swarm cells soon for splits, as shown in your other video!
Why don't you take those nice Carniola Queens in the lab ,put them to sleep and get them fertil.Those nice Queens, are long and big .... 30% of them they are not going make it.There are many reasons why, that is going to happen .You know that guy with that great lab ,he can help you.
I watched it over and over to understand Englisn and I finally got it. Thank yoy. Bravo.
Bob I vote you a top Class Beekeeper at all times,
Man, you make good videos
Thanks, I just wish I could make as many as you do.
Ian that is a very true statement about bob but not to take away from him yours are great also an also I would like to add someone else to the list to go along with both of you . Kamon . Ian I have been doing a rain dance for you . Lol hope it works. Keep them up they are really helping us small groups out .
Might be working, rain north of us… looks like it’s going to miss us again ! Crops are cooking off ,
@@aCanadianBeekeepersBlog I wish I could send you some of ours. Rain has ruined our sourwood flow. It's raining now.
Thanks for taking the time to video this amazing tests. I learn more in 10 minutes than I would by myself in 20 years. God bless you!!
Hey thanks for doing the experiment. And also doing it well, covering several variations of the method. I have done this the odd time, but not enough to properly assess things so good to have your results 👍.
I did this experiment last year...with varied success....nucs with 2 frames of brood took care of the cells great....single frame of brood nucs did not...and the reason was the bees covered the brood and left the cup unattended in the cool nights....so to better that, it is best to embed the cell cup directly into the comb in the middle of the brood. . Bees will take care of the cups better and finish them well.
For normal operation, 48 hour cells are probably not the way to go.....but ...there is a reason for using them.....in Europe it's a bigger thing than it is in the US.
Beekeepers from all over travel to one location with their 48 hour grafted cells to "trade" with other beekeepers. The cells (day 6 actually) have just about all the royal jelly they will ever need, the larvae is not as succeptable to jostling as they are swimming in RJ nor temperature variations which makes transport very easy. The larvae can sustain temp drops to 65°F and still be viable queens.....so for those beekeepers looking to bring in new genetics to their apiaries to mate with their own drone stock, this is a very good and inexpensive option.
Good stuff. Really appreciate you taking time to make videos like this.
I was very much looking forward to watching you do this experiment after I was at the Hive Life Conference. Thank you for doing this and showing the video!
Thats a very Good idea Bob putting that cell between the Frames,Excellent.
Thank you for taking the time to do this experiment. Great video and information.
Excellent video love watching experiments unfold and seeing what works best for different situations.
Hey Bob that system does make a lot of sense and saves time . I’m glad I’m watching this since it will make things so much simpler when I start grafting. I also want you to know for the first time I realize we have sourwood trees in Prince George, Virginia. This is the first . I also was able to rob two handfuls of seed pods in hopes to sprout some new trees.
Johnny Sourwood Tree. I like it.
Above I'm gonna tell you one thing I truly enjoy watching your videos because you're so good about explaining stuff to what you're doing and everything I'm 81 years or I would be trying to do some what you're doing but I just can't get out and handle it like I used to enjoy it anyway Uncle rob said that
I keep going back to your channel and finding all these nuggets of wisdom 👍 thanks for sharing your business with the world 👍 it's always appreciated thank you 👍
Thanks,. much appreciated. 😀
First of all, you’ve got the BEST name! ‘Bob Binnie the Big League Bee Broker’ (maybe a stretch? Offensive even? …well…then…pick your OWN name!)…and GET OFF MY LAWN! Okay- that’s all the stupid I have…I’m an old guy that’s new at bees. I am a sheep breeder for some time but the old ‘meat sack’ is breaking down and sheep are getting heavier and faster than they used to be. I’d like to transition into about 300 bee hives over a 6-8 year period as I wind down the sheep operation. This kind of video is perfect! Thanks for your expertise and experience!
Great video Bob! I'm going to attempt to graft again this week.
*Thx4 sharing interesting, valuable content Bob* 👍🇺🇲
Wow what great information, thank you for taking the time we really appreciate it!
Hi Bob
I really enjoyed that video what a great experiment and brave of you to try it on so many nucs 👍
Experimentation is fun! Thank you for sharing 😊
scientist here. I have been experimenting with what i call reverse grafting and left two i did in above my cell finisher after the 2 day switch and the bees were building well, queen was in the bottom box, so i figured id pull the queen and a few frames and put her in a nuc, left the cells in there. She hatched well and it worked so well the rest of the season I do what you are talking about here, drop couple of frames with a newly reverse grafted 48 hour cell or two on board ; means i dont have to go back and check for emerged queens and the bees seem to accept them without issue. I have also done what is here, as soon as there's a pool of rj in the cup i drop them in with some frames(with no young eggs/brood) in a box. Usually 2 per box for surety.
Another useful method to use as circumstances allow. I'll meditate on this for a while
Really glad you tried this on a bigger scale to look at the variables. Lots of verifying what I was seeing in the 16 colonies that I tried it on, but I had nothing to compare it too. Thanks for the time and energy you spent on this experiment.
Richard Noel in Brittany has done the same, after finding out a lot of French beekeepers transfer the queen cells after 48 hours.
Thanks for follow through !! Been waiting for you or kamon to try this , I will bee using this method in two weeks for my late splits going to be time saver I believe for me . I’ll do some xtra nucs to fill in ones don’t take , my queens done well I got in April from you , I’m grafting from one and with great success producing nice queens as well just an FYI god bless !
That is a cool grafting trailer
Thank you for sharing your expertise with the world
Well done presentation!
Well, that was fascinating!
Very informative test and video. Thanks for sharing.
Happy Easter Bob and everyone! I need to do splits but it is nasty weather. I envy your sunshine there. Snow here tonight. Spring doesn't wanna be spring and my efforts are stretched with everything going on here and in the world. But this too shall pass....
If your goal is to build nice strong 5 frame colonies this is a great idea. Especially if done immediately so your cup has a 2 day jump on any rogue cells.
Also new emerging bees are adding to the population during the waiting period for laying to start
Thanks Bob, Certainly would be a time saving option.
You guys are a helluva lot smarter than me, I'm sure it's very feasible for you to do it this way and the God knows there is a huge demand for Queens, the more idiots like me try to start off in their 1st or 2nd season .
We might be selling inferior Queens to yours, one Question in your Opinion what is the latest in the year you would start the traditional 22 days to raise a Queen, for personal use? Love your Videos keep them coming.
Thx for the video. I transfer very young uncapped swarm or supercede cells all the time. Usually by just transfering the frame but sometimes by cutting individual cells. As long as I do not damage the cell or handle so roughly that the contents drops out and lose the egg or very young larva the new nucs finished them out every time. Well except for the laying worker colony. They tore it out. But I just set up the queenless nucs with lots of fresh nectar, nurse bees and add the cell. I do not even wait overnight. I guess I never thought some might think 2 day old grafted cell would be a problem and I was doing it "wrong". My bees seem to know they do not have a queen almost immediately and they gladly accept and finish just about anything I give them.
I transfer the Q. C in the Queenless nucs when they are cupped at 5 days old.. And the last 9 years that I'm doing that , I'm very happy with this method. No difference at all between the Normal grafted Queens ( Stareter - finisher - nucs) which are transferred to the nucs when are 12 days old. In this way you gain about one week time.
Interesting! I think it's clear that leaving the cells until they're ready to be transferred to a NUC is the way to go. It's not that a nuc won't finish out a queen cell but often the tried and true methods work best, such as in this case.
See them feeding the sucrose water and see that it’s one to one mix….but do they recommend 1lb to 1lb or 1 cup to 1 cup?
@@viscache1 it comes out to the same thing.
Hi Bob, this is very interesting information, thank you!!!
Look, I have received some information from france and from germany...
The 24 hr cells are used in several ways: 1. at the beginning of the swarming period, the old queen must have clipped wings and the new cell is pushed in at a supercedure position. the old queen wants to leave with the swarm, falls to the ground and the swarm flies back into the hive after 30 minutes. 2. after the honey season, 2 months after the swarming period, a 24 hour cell is offered to every production colony again without taking the old queen out of the colony, so if the colony is no more satisfied with the old one, the new one will take over the colony. 30% of the production colonies have a new queen in the spring...
unfortunately we have to fight for survival this year..., no honey, water everywhere and 44% mating.... otherwise we would try exactly those things!
Pat
Hi Pat, is it 24 hours cell or 48 hours? Very interesting, indeed, for renewing the queen!
@@pachko5418 apparently it works with both.., it sounds very logic to me. Giving specific genetic, in specific positions, away from the swarm season... using the supercedure effect... Pat
Very interesting video. I couldn't help but notice the cement retaining walls in the background. That is a poured in place snap tie forming concrete wall. I have had much experience with that type of carpentry in the construction field. The MDO 3/4" x 4' x 8' plywood used in building that was a leftover on many a jobs with the contractor I worked for. Though slightly oiled for ease of release in stripping it was a great perk I utilized in making Beekeeping equipment for my own apairy in my spare time. There were yellow plastic inserts you could buy or get to plug up the snap tie holes drilled in the plywood. I would make sure to scrape, clean, or slightly power wash the used side to save wear and tear on my skil and table saw blades. Just a thought and observation. Great and interesting video on new ways to split and put time couple day old time sensitive queen cells into those 5 frame deep nucs or singles. Thanks Bob! 🐝
In the past I've been able to purchase used HDO like that from a bridge builder. It was cheap and worked great. 👍
Thanks for doing this trial. This is some great information that can be used in my operation as an option for cell and queen production.
I've found that to avoid the need to hunt down rogue cells, it's an extra step but, placing my splits above a QE on the queenright colony for a number of days will "age out" the brood, making it nearly impossible for the nuc to start those rogue cells once the nuc is placed in the mating yard.
Thanks again, Bob!
Thats a good tip and time saver Brad!!👍🐝🐝🐝
I think the 2 day cells put into nucs at the same time the queen is removed are turning out OK because there is sufficient royal jelly in the cell to ensure the larva remains well fed even if it may be a few hours until the bees are properly queenless and actively looking after the cell.
Although I have not tried it I would guess that you are right.
They’ll have them finished up
big thank you
Muy buena experiencia
Good morning Bob! So the nucs performed best with at least 2 frames of brood and we should introduce the cell when we collect the queen. That would even save a step, good deal. Thank you for the time you put into this.
I have used it a lot. Faster cykling. No need of finisher. Making nucs in the morning. Put in cells by lunch. Laying aa scheduled. Same precentage as 10 day cells to nuc.
Again very interesting 🐝🐝
Kent Williams reason for the 48hr cells (if I remember correctly) was when introducing a different race of queens than the mating nucs, they would tear down a lot of the ripe cells but if uncapped they would finish them.
I believe you're right.
Gilbert M. Doolittle would be proud of you.
Works good if the nuc is quite strong and it’s s not to early in the year, but it also need quite a lot of resources, the nuc will have 1,5 weeks older bees, which actually results in slower development. A queen that is put in one day prior to hatching will have first capped brood, right when the last old brood starts to hatch. So all brood is raised by young bees. Since the bees are younger and growing in numbers and having no ditch in the curve of hive population, there will be noo chilled brood too.
I would probably watch them for a season to see the whole scope of the two day old grafts. Just me.
I agree!
I did this into pretty packed mini mating nucs w a baby pollen patty and feed just to mess around and they finished off some beautiful cells that were awesome queens.
Holy crap that is one full box of bees that's an overfold box of bees that's almost two and a half boxes of bees
2 frame for the win. Barnyardbees way. I have a few 2 frame nuc’s,they get one frame of honey and one with eggs. Splits all day
If I went in a hive like that barehanded, my hands would get lit😂. Great video!
:) you need nicer bees. I work without gloves. Easier to handle frames. I usually get stung if I do something wrong
There's no such thing as nice bees! There's bees that will sting you on purpose and there's bees that will sting you out of spite. But rest assured, they'll all sting you....depending on their mood. It's not minding being stung that makes the difference. I mind.
@@calebhollen5316 I’m working on it🍻
Just a hobby of 14 hives in back yard. My bees are nice when I work them correctly. They haven't stung my neighbors or my family. I mow around them with no problems.
Random question..What do you use for smoker fuel and do you use something different between a quick task versus all day work? Great video and thanks for making the effort to put them out there!
We use pine straw and wood stove pellets. The same type of pine straw used in landscaping. We start out with a good fire with pine straw, add a fist full of wood pellets, more pine straw, another layer of pellets and finish with more pine straw so the pellets won't pour out when the smoker is pointed down. If done properly a 4x10 inch smoker will go for a couple of hours. On very quick tasks we just use pine straw. I used to use a lot of hay bailing twine when it was made from hemp. That worked great too.
I guess if you need to max out your time in a starter this will make a zillion queens in no time but I'm a fan of leaving them alone for 10 days. I can make much smaller nuc's - 1 frame of bees and brood.
Based on Kent's commentary one of the benefits is the number of cells you can get out of a cell builder colony. Based on the fact you are pulling the cells at 2 days you get process 3x as many cells out of one cell builder colony before it runs out of steam.
That would be the main reason to do this in my view.
That canopy is a nice idea for those real hot days.
It's actually there for rainy days. You can't skip a rainy day with cell builders. But it's not bad on hot days either.
@@bobbinnie9872 much respect I don't think I could do what y'all do.
Mr . Brine really appreciate your videos 🐝❤️ please what kind smoke pellets do you use please?
We use a combination of pine tree straw and hardwood wood stove pellets.
Excellent material. Seems like its a good idea but would take more time eliminating the rouge cells. Ive done this to rescue a hive. I took small pieces of wood (1inch long, thin) and drilled a small hole just big enough for the nipple of jzbz queen cup. Used hot wax to hold in place. When i find a queenless colony, i just pull one out and graft a few cells and set them directly over the top bars. Has worked well.
I didn't see many of the cells built with grafts placed between the frames. It seems those had "better" looking cells. Possibly due to having more access to all sides of the graft cup? Do you recall the % of those grafts that failed? I'm going to try it with 3 frame nuc (3 split deep) with 2 full frames of brood/bees (4 sides) and see what happens. Always learning!
The cells placed between the top bars did fine but we chose not to do that with the smaller nucs. There were a dozen or so of those and they were all successful. I would not do it in cooler weather.
Man I really wish I lived near you Bob Benny. Cuz I would totally quit my job and come work for you for a year easy. Not even sure if I'd care if I got paid.
Free Labor? Hmmm.😀
@@bobbinnie9872 oh you can definitely have some out of me. Well I wouldn't call it free cause I'll be getting paid in knowledge
Interesting idea ..
It was an interesting experiment but I probably won't do it much.
Ha Bob great video thanks for doing it I always learn from u thankyou for taking your time to make the videos to help all of us u are wonderful have a blessed week. I have carnies and we are in a dearth I am in virginia, in a city there is no real fall flow here the carnies shut down so I have a hard time with inspection this time of year because I have real bad vision, I can not find the queens I would always look for small brood for the sign she is there, I say small brood if I see small brood they have the resorces to make a queen if they donot have one, i cant see eggs I am feeding 1-1 syrup to all my colonies that I started this year. anyway when they shut down I get to worring they all have died and I cant tell u have any words of wisdom to help me with this problem I do not explain very well so I hope u understand what I am trying to say and thanks for your reply in advance.
Hi Frances. I know it's tough when you can't see eggs. Our queens have slowed down a lot too. Richard Taylor, a famous beekeeper from a few decades ago, was once asked if he tried to
re-queen colonies with failing queens. His answer was "I just run a few extra colonies and combine the failures in the fall".
@@bobbinnie9872 Thanks Bob I learn a lot from u and like I always say u are great Have a blessed week and please
keep the videos coming
Thanks for all your videos. The method would give a brood less period for oa mite treatments.
Very good point.
@@bobbinnie9872 does the mite enter the cell day 8. Thats point to
The cell is capped
Hi the black queen or battery then the red ones in your opinion sir bob
Sorry to get off topic Bob but I have a question regarding the sourwood tree more specifically the bloom. When the nectar flow is over for the sourwood tree does the bloom fall off or will they remain on? How do you know for sure that the sourwood tree has stopped producing nectar for the year? Thank you as always for helping beekeepers like myself.
When viewing sourwood blooms from even a slight distance it can look like they are still blooming weeks after they are finished. When an individual bloom is finished it simply turns up on the stem instead of pointing down. The seeds are usually mature by late November. We watch the honey supers to tell when the flow is over. We check for color and taste. In our area this year the flow was zero so we didn't have to make much of a judgment.
@@bobbinnie9872 Thank You
wow! Jet black queen. Beauty! Carnolian?
Caucasian x Carniolan.
What's the significance of the amount of royal jelly in the queen cup? I assume the amount of jelly from the starter hives would be about the same in all of the started queen cells. Might the placement of the uncapped queen cell into the NUC box allow R.J. to get consumed and not replaced by the nurse bees?
Although the majority of the royal jelly is fed in the first 48 hours, a shortage in the sealed cell could be a sign that the nuc did not continue to feed the cell properly.
How do you clean the frames before putting the queen to start laying eggs so we know that they are 12-24 hours old?
We put grafting frames over an excluder in a good colony and let them clean them for a few days.
I really appreciate your videos. In another one you were talking about people were fussing about you feeding the bees. Next time ask them if they would buy cows or goats and leave them without feeding them. If they did they would not have them long
I completely agree!
I have a very good question. Which I'm pretty sure I already know the answer is going to be but I'm hoping to get a better answer than that. When in the season is the best time to start your first splits. I'm in Missouri crazy weather central.
The very best time is when the bees start having ripe swarm cells. Many of us (myself included) try to start a few weeks earlier than that.
Have you ever had a swarm to come out of your starter box I had the queen above the starter for two days to lay in a frame in timer box and after two days took her out of the time area to let her lay in rest of the box there on the second day after grafting I had a swarm to leave the starter box I have not got back into the hive yet will inspect tomorrow and see what may have happened. Thanks
Interesting, I have not had that happen.
@@bobbinnie9872 I was wrong she came out of the top box not the starter box they came out and then landed on the bottom of the starter then moved up into a tree and left my cells still looks good.
Nice
Is that Diatomaceous Soil for bugs on the ground around ur hives?
No, but I've heard it works.
Does the length of the capped cell indicate the quality of the queen inside? A nice looking cell impresses everybody but does it necessarily indicate a superior queen inside? I've destroyed a bunch of puny looking cells just based on appearance...but often wondered if they would have made good queens.
I’m betting no one answers your question. I have seen this asked and when I look at it it’s never answered.
Bob told me to select the two best cells on a supersede but I've wondered the same
Hi Mark. Puny cells can often result in inferior queens. Good queens can come out of average or moderate size cells but of course large, good looking cells are considered best.
Hi Bob, rain today so no bee work but I took your advice and removed 8 cells, leaving 2. Hopefully virgin will come back. Sometimes I think that they just find a nice Bo.
really interesting video, surprised such a high success with moving the delicate cells around at the 48 hour mark, also these would be emergency queens, which i am told are not as good as supercedure cells, but yeah looks good apart from knocking off the rogue cells, please do more experiments like such it was great video.
I'm a new beekeeper so I may not be correct in this. But are not emergency cells not generally made from older larvae? that's why they're not as good? These cells would be made from perfect age larvae so they should be perfect Queens.
These are not emergency cells. These are larvae grafted at the appropriate specific age. Emergency cells are never placed in a cell cup. Rather the bees float the larvae out from a regular cell. They generally end up smaller with a crook in the top. Also, the bees may chose older larvae.
Hi Bob,
thank you for showing this interesting experiment. Do you have any news about those queens?
Best regards,
Jan
The queens in the larger nucs turned out fine. The smaller nucs with the smaller cells seemed to have a few small queens.
@@bobbinnie9872 Thank you, Sir.
@@bobbinnie9872 could I buy 2 queens from you?
@@BornToDoItRight We are currently sold out.
I raised the queens, but I forgot to put a frame of pollen, and I did not put any pastes or substitutes, and 45 out of 48 succeeded, but I was surprised by the small size of the queens (almost the size of the worker) Is the reason for their smallness is the lack of pollen during breeding or the large number (48) ) Thanks
Your problem could be a lack of pollen. Another common mistake is not feeding thin sugar syrup or a lack of a nectar flow while the cells are being built.
What was the result of this test? Thanks for the videos. Love the information!
The cells finished by the nucs hatched on time but we do feel that only the larger nucs made good cells.
@@bobbinnie9872 thanks for the quick reply!
I’m confused- how is this different than the normal way? Can someone give a compare and contrast? Thanks.
Normally I put in a ripe cell ready to hatch within 24 hours which gives the nuc a laying queen in about twelve days. With a 48 hour cell the nuc is doing the finishing which frees up the cell builder but it takes the nuc much longer to have a laying queen.
👍
Would also think that the nucs will be off to a slower start as they need to wait a week longer for a laying queen...tying up nuc boxes a week longer and having to commit brood to a nuc a week earlier.
Good point and worth taking into consideration.
@@bobbinnie9872 Saves some handling and labor but if bees or equipment are limited perhaps not for a small commercial operation....but great for hobbyists.
Thats a good point Peter
what do you do with the hive after you take out the graf?
We reassemble it in a normal fashion and reuse it for cell build in two weeks.
Just curious how these produced this past year compared to the rest of the outfit.
I'm happy with the 48 hour cells and have done it several times now. I don't see a difference unless they were raised from small units of less than three frames. Of course feeding and ample pollen are part of the needs.
hi Bob ,i tried this method,
in my opinion the last round in the summer, is useful as it is possible to treat with dripped oxalic acid, but if there is an important flow of nectar they begin to clog the nests beacuse after 3 weeks there is not brood
When we find the royal lunch in the royal cups, does it humiliate that the king fell from the royal lunch and did not eat it well, does it mean that the queen is not good?
It's OK if there is some royal jelly left in the cup.
Why do you put Why do you put the cocoons of queens when they are open and not closed yet cocoons?
To free the cell building colony sooner and also get very good cell acceptance.
Looks like too much give and take using this 2 day cell method, particularly if you're installing them in mating boxes that are still capable of drawing other qcells off of their own brood frames like was done in this experiment. This resembles the same queen quality / timing that would come from doing a walk a way nurse bee split and a emergency queen situation. Miss finding one of those other qcells during that brisk inspection, and you really don't know what queen you have in there a few days later. First queen to hatch don't always win the colony. Too many times I've seen #1 and sometimes more sisters with her end up on a tree limb.....they had to give way to another queen that survived the blood letting. Bob, although I've never tried this experiment myself, I tend to agree with your last thoughts on it in this video. It can be done, but is it too much sugar for a dime ???
After a couple months what are your thoughts on this topic Bob?
We've done it twice this season on large batches of strong nucs, that had been queenless overnight with good results. I think some keys are timing, strength of the nuc and good nutrition.
To raise queens, do you choose your strongest cells to conquer queens?
We only use our best looking cells.
Very insightful. Do you refill the feeders on your mating nucs or do they just get one jar? Thanks for the ride along!
We don't refill the jar until we know we have a laying queen. With these we are actually going to transfer them into a single deep and give them a bucket and start growing them for winter.
@@bobbinnie9872 Thanks for the reply Bob. I have some fresh starts that I will be growing also in close to your environment. You are a BIG help with your information..
Do you put a second graft frame right in or make them queen right for a time?
You could do two back to back but we cycle to a new group of colonies each time.
@@bobbinnie9872 and you have no issues with pulling the double screen board and just reintroducing the queen?
@@michaellavazza960 We've never had a problem. For more on this technique see our video "How We Produce Queens". ua-cam.com/video/c28O916sy48/v-deo.html
@@bobbinnie9872 man I tried but my googlefoo was weak…so ashamed! Thanks for the link!!!
Do you guys ship queens id like to try few in Michigan
Sorry, we don't ship queens. We sell everything we need too with pick up.
How can you tell if there is a lot of royal jelly if the cell is capped?
You can see extra at the top if you are using plastic cell cups.
@@bobbinnie9872 Thanks for the reply. Everything is a month early this Spring. I'll be looking for swarm cells soon for splits, as shown in your other video!
If the 48 hour cell emerges first, isnt it extra work and find all the rogue cells?
Sorry, question answered, I should of course see the video till the end before asking questions
👍💯🐝
Why don't you take those nice Carniola Queens in the lab ,put them to sleep and get them fertil.Those nice Queens, are long and big .... 30% of them they are not going make it.There are many reasons why, that is going to happen .You know that guy with that great lab ,he can help you.
Gostaria desse vídeo em português
I would be thinking I’d have slipped larvae after the first bump in the road the way the roads are in Illinois
They stay up amazingly well.