I think in general, people are just more educated about whiskey now. Through our journeys, we are now not so willing to pay $180-$250 for just a mediocre bottle of Blanton's or Weller SR. We have learned (or are learning) that a Four Roses Small Batch Select, Old Forester 1920, or Wild Turkey Rare Breed will do just fine. I cringe, knowing how much I've spent over last couple of years for just "ok" whiskey, because of FOMO. Great video! I like all of your points.
I have had fun the last couple years, so no regrets, but I do occasionally think about all the bottles I missed on and how those bottles could have helped update my kitchen instead…
I 💯 agree with your statement. I personally Won’t buy another bottle of Blanton’s single barrel, cause it is really not that good, many are way better out there. Pretty soon, these overpriced over hyped bottles will again be on the shelf, they won’t be able to hide them or sell them at those ridiculous prices.
I’m in year 3 of whiskey… and I can 100% relate! I’ve made so many mistakes. Now feel great about being able to enjoy readily available banger bottles.. feels good being on this side of the journey
Good points... personally I'm burnt out.. I'm burnt out on the prices that keep going up.. I'm burnt out of companies Traveling to put out garbage products just for money grabs... I'm also burnt out on the next big thing whiskies... etc...I really don't know where i'm at in my journey but i'm def taking a break, kicking back and enjoying the nice bottles i do have. Have a Great Day Everyone, Cheers 🥃🥃
From what I see, it’s definitely the treatment that bourbon enthusiasts get from store owners/employees that really makes you not want to participate in the hobby anymore. When I was into biking, small bike shops would love it when I came in for that new seat that just released, or that new hybrid that everyone was clamoring over. They would even hold one back for me just because I gave them good business. Bourbon is not the same at all. Owners just want you to buy their regular shelf products every week (WT101, Jim Beam, Jack No. 7, Evan Williams) if you’re not doing that, they absolutely hate having you as a customer. The guys who come in looking for allocated and or craft bourbons/ryes, are literally viewed as snobs and pointless business to store owners. They don’t make money from you buying allocated products (it sells itself) and they don’t make money from craft spirits (most of the profits go to distributors and manufacturers) they make their money from cheap regular shelfers that everyone has either already tried or already had. Basically, if you’re not a wine-o alcoholic who’s buying a 1.75L of WT101 every week, they don’t like you.
Industries unfortunately take customers for granted when they are confident they are replaceable. When times get hard, that’s when they start rewarding loyalty.
I do see a slow down as people are just getting bored of the chase. I for one have changed my habits because like many others, I have floor whiskey. I don’t drink as much as I used to. I’m not as impacted by the FOMO anymore. There’ll be more whiskey.I can go into a liquor store and come out without a bottle in my hand, which would’ve been impossible a few months ago. I know a bit better about what I want and who’s opinion I trust. My suggestion to all newbies is to do your research before going to the liquor store. Make a list. Follow it. You’ll be overwhelmed by the indecision and sheer number of choices. Stick to your guns and fight the FOMO or the impulse buys. That’s where I am at.
great video and excellent commentary. I've grown tired of the chase and the higher prices. I'd like to buy more dusties but those prices are way too high especially given the fact that most of them are a gamble in terms of quality/experience.
This is a very well thought out video. I agree on many points - consolidation and buy outs for the lucky ones. I will be very sad if some of my smaller distilleries that I love go away, but I will also say that there are some that I will delight in their demise - either because of how they treat their customers, or because their product is just meh. A little shaking out and thinning out is healthy. I also agree that prices are not going down anytime soon. Many distillers have been underpricing their product for years, and I actually think that those days are likely going to end too.
I got into bourbon at the end of 2022/early 2023. I utilized UA-cam content to form my opinions and desires on what I wanted to search for. I quickly realized that getting the bottles that had a lot of hype either required deep connections with stores, driving hours upon hours to go to “drops” and or paying secondary for them. I played the game for a few months and ultimately I got burnt out from doing it. It’s not worth it. There are so many everyday shelfers that are on par or even better than the hyped bottles. I have no issue paying for a quality bottle. But when I have to go out of my way to hunt one down, no thanks. In my area the store owners either go off a points system from purchases in the store or they have an already ridiculously long list of people they hold bottles for/loyal customers for over a decade. As a new buyer sure you can make friends with the owners, get in the lists, but you’re 50th in line for a release that the store might get 2 of. I’ve since shifted my purchasing to regular shelters and picks from the creators I subscribe to on Patreon. There’s tons of great whiskey out that that requires little to no “hunting”. I’d much rather support a smaller distillery as opposed to a “corporation”.
The picks coming from the various channels have such a higher batting average than store picks or limited editions. I agree with your strategy. I’m 50% picks from private groups, 25% brick and mortar retailers, 25% online retailers. In Ohio and Northern KY, the relationship games doesn’t work - at least not at my level.
@@helloagainwhiskeyfriends to be honest it started to ruin my enjoyment of whiskey. I got so wrapped up around finding certain things and being let down. My whole perspective has changed for the better. There’s tons of enjoyable options. The key to the Patreon picks is finding who you align with palate wise which thankfully for me is M&J. Their picks are stellar.
100% Agree. The catch 'em all Pokemon reference is spot on. Many people wanted their bottles on the shelf to showoff. Also I find the whole 'bunkering' or 'backup' thing comical, it was hoarding! A case at most or a handful of bottles I can understand, but no it was literal cases and cases of stuff! Some people have got some real consumerism problems! I'm good with Old Grand-Dad Bonded/114, Knob Creek 9 Year, Knob Creek 12 Year, Michter's small batch, Four Roses small batch and the occasional store pick.
I guess I'm a whiskey groupie. Whiskey guys who likes being part of fun whiskey groups so I'm at least drinking what the people in my group are drinking. Think we see some picks can be stronger than bottles hunting. Also lots of great whiskey on the shelf. Between the group and great shelffers hard to feel like you need something hard to find. Great discussion point Jeff. Thanks
Great video! All the points were spot on. I believe the "have and have nots" are going to have a bigger gap in the coming years. Basically Buffalo Trace, Heaven Hill, etc. will keep growing while craft and smaller distilleries will struggle. One reason for that is international opportunities. There is big demand for good bourbon outside the US now and that will change the landscape.. and not for the better if you want to find that GTS or Parkers Heritage on the shelf 😢. Thanks for the video!
High prices and having a surplus of whisky is probably contributing to the slow down, which is good. Saw a Blanton's SFTB on the shelf for $200 for the first time in two years and passed on it, but would have purchased it a year ago.
Great Points all the way thru the video. I have to agree with you on a lot of those. I know from my years of local hunting/chasing that prices are all over the board, example: Old Forester 1924 the other day was on the shelf at 5 stores I visited and it was from $125 to $195, it’s crazy how some can charge these prices? I know someone will pay the 195 or more because of FOMO, but some will hold their ground. Keep up the Great Work and CHEERS!🥃🥃🥃
I can see prices coming down over the next few years. I'm already seeing Weller Full Proof sell for around $160-170 at auction when they were going for $300+ not too long ago.
I know I've slowed down a lot. I tend to concentrate my efforts with the M&J whiskey club barrel picks. Also if I find targets of opportunity at or close to SRP, I'll grab one.
I'll say that I've cut back because I have ran out of room. But what that has done has gotten me more into finding a pour or swapping samples so that I know what I want when room opens up.
This basic economics. As demand go up and supply goes down, as it typically does, prices goes up. When prices goes up, substitutional goods go up, because they’re cheaper, and in some cases better or equally as good. That’s what’s going on here, but it will take some time for goods to reduce in price because many manufacturers and marketplaces will lose money. So they’re going to hold on as long as they can to gain those profits or break even. What I recommend is for people to be more about spirits than just one spirit. Get into tequila, vodka and gins.
I no longer hunt. I’ve recently passed on Weller, Eagle Rare, Joseph Magnus Cigar blend, Woodford triple, and a few others. All of those at bottom retail. I actually prefer to now support some of the small producers. I’m even at the point to where I’ve been giving bottles away to friends. Recently gave a few friends, a ECBP C923, Colonel Taylor, Weller Full Proof, Weller Green, Old Carter, K.Luke, and a few others.
I’m into cashing rare bottles. I just buy what is readily available and try it. I’ve learned I’m a Scotch fan more than bourbon and the only one I really want to find is Springbank. I do want to try a Maker’s Cellar Aged and Russell 13yr.
This is a multi tier issue. The economy is headed in the wrong direction which is certainly effecting everyone. We are getting wise to those that are flipping for profit and trying to get way over what a bottle is worth. States are starting to get involved in the process which in my opinion is a good thing. More importantly is the fact that many of the distilleries are raising prices significantly and that is hurting their sales. Even the basic bottom shelf bottles are going up by a fair amount. And again this is hurting their sells. Many are literally pricing their products out of reach for a large percentage of their customers and the ones that can spend that amount how many bottles are they actually going to buy. Is this going to lead to a collapse it is very possible and I’m thinking if it happens it’ll be sooner than later. Just saying. Enjoy!!
Well Maryland is like the redheaded stepchild of the whiskey industry so we don’t get all the allocations and a lot of places do, and the mom and Pop type stores here pretty much do secondary on all the allocations so I will be spending my money a little more wisely this year, and since I’m the only one that takes my household, I have enough whiskey for probably 5 to 10 years at this point it’s a good thing I do sample out a lot cheers 🥃🥃🥃🥃
Collectors - that is an entirely different level. Collectors ride the wave. Ocean changes, tide comes and goes, dries up and floods. All noise to a Collector. Respect.
Secondary is definitely dying. Someone posted into one of the FB groups I’m in that he was selling a bottle of GTS 2023 for 700. Everybody gave him a 😂 emoji. 1-2 years ago, he would have had 50 replies in less than 15 minutes.
@@jameslane9267you mean the profoundly ridiculous secondary is dying. The rest of the secondary is still thriving. That's why Old Forester 1924 is currently selling out at $200, well above its already ridiculous MSRP, as just one recent example. In my state I cannot get a Jack Daniels 12 for less than three times the MSRP.
@BigBadJerryRogers Secondary on Buffalo Trace products is way cheaper than in stores where I live. Blanton's is $120 on secondary and $200 in stores. Yeah, I paid $67.49 for my last bottle and that's what I am comfortable paying.
@@BigBadJerryRogers OF1924 is selling at $200 because it’s still very new, and is being hyped up and limited. JD12 sells at $200+ because it’s really damn good. Something like RHF or ETL selling for $200+ I’ll never understand. They’ve been on the market for decades and aren’t even that good. Why are people still paying these prices for below average hooch?
I think in general, people are just more educated about whiskey now. Through our journeys, we are now not so willing to pay $180-$250 for just a mediocre bottle of Blanton's or Weller SR. We have learned (or are learning) that a Four Roses Small Batch Select, Old Forester 1920, or Wild Turkey Rare Breed will do just fine. I cringe, knowing how much I've spent over last couple of years for just "ok" whiskey, because of FOMO. Great video! I like all of your points.
I have had fun the last couple years, so no regrets, but I do occasionally think about all the bottles I missed on and how those bottles could have helped update my kitchen instead…
I 💯 agree with your statement.
I personally Won’t buy another bottle of Blanton’s single barrel, cause it is really not that good, many are way better out there.
Pretty soon, these overpriced over hyped bottles will again be on the shelf, they won’t be able to hide them or sell them at those ridiculous prices.
I’m in year 3 of whiskey… and I can 100% relate! I’ve made so many mistakes. Now feel great about being able to enjoy readily available banger bottles.. feels good being on this side of the journey
Good points... personally I'm burnt out.. I'm burnt out on the prices that keep going up.. I'm burnt out of companies Traveling to put out garbage products just for money grabs... I'm also burnt out on the next big thing whiskies... etc...I really don't know where i'm at in my journey but i'm def taking a break, kicking back and enjoying the nice bottles i do have. Have a Great Day Everyone, Cheers 🥃🥃
We need to discuss a certain blind flight too!
That's exactly what I've done as well, here is Arizona the boom is still crazy.
From what I see, it’s definitely the treatment that bourbon enthusiasts get from store owners/employees that really makes you not want to participate in the hobby anymore. When I was into biking, small bike shops would love it when I came in for that new seat that just released, or that new hybrid that everyone was clamoring over. They would even hold one back for me just because I gave them good business. Bourbon is not the same at all. Owners just want you to buy their regular shelf products every week (WT101, Jim Beam, Jack No. 7, Evan Williams) if you’re not doing that, they absolutely hate having you as a customer. The guys who come in looking for allocated and or craft bourbons/ryes, are literally viewed as snobs and pointless business to store owners. They don’t make money from you buying allocated products (it sells itself) and they don’t make money from craft spirits (most of the profits go to distributors and manufacturers) they make their money from cheap regular shelfers that everyone has either already tried or already had. Basically, if you’re not a wine-o alcoholic who’s buying a 1.75L of WT101 every week, they don’t like you.
Industries unfortunately take customers for granted when they are confident they are replaceable. When times get hard, that’s when they start rewarding loyalty.
The economy is trashed, people are having to pay more for everything thus cutting back on luxury spending.
I do see a slow down as people are just getting bored of the chase. I for one have changed my habits because like many others, I have floor whiskey. I don’t drink as much as I used to. I’m not as impacted by the FOMO anymore. There’ll be more whiskey.I can go into a liquor store and come out without a bottle in my hand, which would’ve been impossible a few months ago. I know a bit better about what I want and who’s opinion I trust. My suggestion to all newbies is to do your research before going to the liquor store. Make a list. Follow it. You’ll be overwhelmed by the indecision and sheer number of choices. Stick to your guns and fight the FOMO or the impulse buys. That’s where I am at.
Man i like this one a lot... literally every bullet point applies to us and our slow down! 🥃
great video and excellent commentary. I've grown tired of the chase and the higher prices. I'd like to buy more dusties but those prices are way too high especially given the fact that most of them are a gamble in terms of quality/experience.
The problem is that many distributors are trying to get 100.00 for a 40 dollar bottle.
Absolutely fantastic points, and I couldn't have said it better myself. Great topic, Wack!!!
This is a very well thought out video. I agree on many points - consolidation and buy outs for the lucky ones. I will be very sad if some of my smaller distilleries that I love go away, but I will also say that there are some that I will delight in their demise - either because of how they treat their customers, or because their product is just meh. A little shaking out and thinning out is healthy. I also agree that prices are not going down anytime soon. Many distillers have been underpricing their product for years, and I actually think that those days are likely going to end too.
I got into bourbon at the end of 2022/early 2023. I utilized UA-cam content to form my opinions and desires on what I wanted to search for. I quickly realized that getting the bottles that had a lot of hype either required deep connections with stores, driving hours upon hours to go to “drops” and or paying secondary for them. I played the game for a few months and ultimately I got burnt out from doing it. It’s not worth it. There are so many everyday shelfers that are on par or even better than the hyped bottles. I have no issue paying for a quality bottle. But when I have to go out of my way to hunt one down, no thanks. In my area the store owners either go off a points system from purchases in the store or they have an already ridiculously long list of people they hold bottles for/loyal customers for over a decade. As a new buyer sure you can make friends with the owners, get in the lists, but you’re 50th in line for a release that the store might get 2 of. I’ve since shifted my purchasing to regular shelters and picks from the creators I subscribe to on Patreon. There’s tons of great whiskey out that that requires little to no “hunting”. I’d much rather support a smaller distillery as opposed to a “corporation”.
The picks coming from the various channels have such a higher batting average than store picks or limited editions. I agree with your strategy. I’m 50% picks from private groups, 25% brick and mortar retailers, 25% online retailers. In Ohio and Northern KY, the relationship games doesn’t work - at least not at my level.
@@helloagainwhiskeyfriends to be honest it started to ruin my enjoyment of whiskey. I got so wrapped up around finding certain things and being let down. My whole perspective has changed for the better. There’s tons of enjoyable options. The key to the Patreon picks is finding who you align with palate wise which thankfully for me is M&J. Their picks are stellar.
100% Agree. The catch 'em all Pokemon reference is spot on. Many people wanted their bottles on the shelf to showoff. Also I find the whole 'bunkering' or 'backup' thing comical, it was hoarding! A case at most or a handful of bottles I can understand, but no it was literal cases and cases of stuff! Some people have got some real consumerism problems!
I'm good with Old Grand-Dad Bonded/114, Knob Creek 9 Year, Knob Creek 12 Year, Michter's small batch, Four Roses small batch and the occasional store pick.
Great content! Plenty of juices choose from that don't require breaking the bank and accessible.
Drinking good bourbon without secondary prices
I guess I'm a whiskey groupie. Whiskey guys who likes being part of fun whiskey groups so I'm at least drinking what the people in my group are drinking. Think we see some picks can be stronger than bottles hunting. Also lots of great whiskey on the shelf. Between the group and great shelffers hard to feel like you need something hard to find. Great discussion point Jeff. Thanks
🤣🤣
Great video! All the points were spot on. I believe the "have and have nots" are going to have a bigger gap in the coming years. Basically Buffalo Trace, Heaven Hill, etc. will keep growing while craft and smaller distilleries will struggle. One reason for that is international opportunities. There is big demand for good bourbon outside the US now and that will change the landscape.. and not for the better if you want to find that GTS or Parkers Heritage on the shelf 😢.
Thanks for the video!
Great topic. Haven't seen a slow down in my circle.
Strange... I can remember about 20-25 years ago when brown liquors were a red-headed stepchild of the bar industry. Everything was about Vodka.
Well stated & presented….glad someone said it.
"Catch and release". Lol. Love it !
High prices and having a surplus of whisky is probably contributing to the slow down, which is good. Saw a Blanton's SFTB on the shelf for $200 for the first time in two years and passed on it, but would have purchased it a year ago.
Great Points all the way thru the video. I have to agree with you on a lot of those. I know from my years of local hunting/chasing that prices are all over the board, example: Old Forester 1924 the other day was on the shelf at 5 stores I visited and it was from $125 to $195, it’s crazy how some can charge these prices? I know someone will pay the 195 or more because of FOMO, but some will hold their ground. Keep up the Great Work and CHEERS!🥃🥃🥃
I can see prices coming down over the next few years. I'm already seeing Weller Full Proof sell for around $160-170 at auction when they were going for $300+ not too long ago.
I know I've slowed down a lot. I tend to concentrate my efforts with the M&J whiskey club barrel picks. Also if I find targets of opportunity at or close to SRP, I'll grab one.
I'll say that I've cut back because I have ran out of room. But what that has done has gotten me more into finding a pour or swapping samples so that I know what I want when room opens up.
This basic economics. As demand go up and supply goes down, as it typically does, prices goes up. When prices goes up, substitutional goods go up, because they’re cheaper, and in some cases better or equally as good. That’s what’s going on here, but it will take some time for goods to reduce in price because many manufacturers and marketplaces will lose money. So they’re going to hold on as long as they can to gain those profits or break even. What I recommend is for people to be more about spirits than just one spirit. Get into tequila, vodka and gins.
Plus production levels at legacy distilleries are higher. Seeing more
Dustin dropped some great stats below about barrels aging.
Its the overhype and mediocre bottles for outrageous prices
When you say any drinker above $200 I agree
I no longer hunt. I’ve recently passed on Weller, Eagle Rare, Joseph Magnus Cigar blend, Woodford triple, and a few others. All of those at bottom retail. I actually prefer to now support some of the small producers. I’m even at the point to where I’ve been giving bottles away to friends. Recently gave a few friends, a ECBP C923, Colonel Taylor, Weller Full Proof, Weller Green, Old Carter, K.Luke, and a few others.
Can we be whiskey friends? 😬 (Not that I have any shelf space at the moment)
@@helloagainwhiskeyfriends lo! I get more joy from sharing the whiskey these days.
I’m into cashing rare bottles. I just buy what is readily available and try it. I’ve learned I’m a Scotch fan more than bourbon and the only one I really want to find is Springbank. I do want to try a Maker’s Cellar Aged and Russell 13yr.
Let's hope so, I miss the days when you could walk in and see a hand full of Gorge T. On the shelf
The shelf prices of allocated wiskey are higher, sometimes double, the cost on the secondary market in my area.
Fact: most Fireball sales are Kira.
Fact: we're into to whiskeytuber rock.
Fact: we're always just humoring Jeff.
Great points and great vid!
This is a multi tier issue. The economy is headed in the wrong direction which is certainly effecting everyone. We are getting wise to those that are flipping for profit and trying to get way over what a bottle is worth. States are starting to get involved in the process which in my opinion is a good thing. More importantly is the fact that many of the distilleries are raising prices significantly and that is hurting their sales. Even the basic bottom shelf bottles are going up by a fair amount. And again this is hurting their sells. Many are literally pricing their products out of reach for a large percentage of their customers and the ones that can spend that amount how many bottles are they actually going to buy. Is this going to lead to a collapse it is very possible and I’m thinking if it happens it’ll be sooner than later. Just saying. Enjoy!!
Relative to what time period? Compared to 2019-2022, yes.
Always relative based on where you start the story. This boom is just a blip depending on the perspective.
Well Maryland is like the redheaded stepchild of the whiskey industry so we don’t get all the allocations and a lot of places do, and the mom and Pop type stores here pretty much do secondary on all the allocations so I will be spending my money a little more wisely this year, and since I’m the only one that takes my household, I have enough whiskey for probably 5 to 10 years at this point it’s a good thing I do sample out a lot cheers 🥃🥃🥃🥃
I've been a hunter/chaser for the last 6 or 7 years and I'm pretty much done. But only because I now own more bottles than I'll ever drink.
Time to reap the spoils. I can’t even share my way to gaining room. #NoFloorWhiskeyin2024
Good projection video
I would think that only of the occasional hobbyist, collectors like me that's been doing this for more than 2 decades, probably not.
Collectors - that is an entirely different level. Collectors ride the wave. Ocean changes, tide comes and goes, dries up and floods. All noise to a Collector. Respect.
Well said!
Roar
WHISKEY CHEERS 😎
Fav whiskey ardbeg uigeadail
I think people have less money
Bourbon secondary is dieing; guy’s drinking easy to get bottles
Secondary is definitely dying. Someone posted into one of the FB groups I’m in that he was selling a bottle of GTS 2023 for 700. Everybody gave him a 😂 emoji. 1-2 years ago, he would have had 50 replies in less than 15 minutes.
@@jameslane9267you mean the profoundly ridiculous secondary is dying. The rest of the secondary is still thriving. That's why Old Forester 1924 is currently selling out at $200, well above its already ridiculous MSRP, as just one recent example. In my state I cannot get a Jack Daniels 12 for less than three times the MSRP.
@BigBadJerryRogers Secondary on Buffalo Trace products is way cheaper than in stores where I live. Blanton's is $120 on secondary and $200 in stores. Yeah, I paid $67.49 for my last bottle and that's what I am comfortable paying.
@@BigBadJerryRogers OF1924 is selling at $200 because it’s still very new, and is being hyped up and limited. JD12 sells at $200+ because it’s really damn good. Something like RHF or ETL selling for $200+ I’ll never understand. They’ve been on the market for decades and aren’t even that good. Why are people still paying these prices for below average hooch?
A huge indy rock fan?? OMG. That's WACK!!!