9 ways to rig a 4x4 winch using 1 snatch block
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
- #winching #snatchblocks #recovery
Got one snatch block? Here's options for winch rigging, compared and contrasted to single lines pulls to make a total of 9 options, along with an explanation of mechanical advantage.
Post questions as comments!
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Let me remind folks that no need to rush these. You're stuck...you're not going anywhere. Take your time with rigging. Happy and safe winching!
I thought it looked fishy too . 1 to 1 MA was more like your example. Thanks kindly for your video and effort. Life is all about learning from our mistakes.
I have worked in the bush for 50yrs on rudimentary logging roads, fire guards and other rough trails and have been stuck maybe 10 times. I had no idea people had thought so hard about ways to use a winch!
10x in 50 years? You're doing something right old friend! I hope you (and I) enjoy another 50 more.
Fantastic! I had a superb education in m 9th grade physics class on this subject...and got the same course (and book!) in my freshman college class...and haven't seen or needed to use the information until I started getting stuck in the outdoors. I love the science and practicality of the explanations....thank you so much for this...I can only think of all the guys who hated math and science in school...who would absorb, learn and use all of these techniques....your educational perspective is exceptional. Thank you so much!!
Thanks Robert for detailed explanation!
Top Explanations Robert :-) Thank you very much for your many ways to winch :-) Ted
Great information. I always try to use the snatch block on what I'm moving just to make it easier on the winch.
Nice job an clear explanations. Thanks Robert!
Glad it was helpful!
I need to start carrying my hi lift again. And getting two blocs now that I understand how they work. Thank you for these videos
You are so welcome!
Brilliant. This will be very useful I am sure! Thank you!!!
This is an excellent explanation. Thank you for the diagrams. Im sure that was a lot of work.
Great explanation! I've now watched both your snatch block videos, 1 and 2 blocks - very useful indeed!
Thanks please share 👍
Excellent tutorial! Thanks!
Wow man I learnt more here than in 10 others. Damn subd
Thanks..this channel is about education, come here when you want answers :-)
Your videos are the best. You are the best resource for a novice. Thanks very much.
Glad you like them! Please share :-)
Solid info Robert. Thank you for explaining these various scenarios. ~ E
Thanks, interested to see how your Gladiator goes. I have the same Helinox chairs...stand by for a detailed explanation of Lightweight Camping techinques!
Awesome video. Very informative n creative too. Thank you.
My pleasure!
I use a winch and snatch block to move a heavy dock. This review, as well as the two snatch block review is very helpful. Can't thank you enough for teaching me the options you mentioned. Y-tube is invaluable. As a youngster in highschool I had a disruptive home life, which did not allow me the environment to study. Did poorly in school. Y-tube has allowed me the chance to catch up.
Good onya mate. You clearly have a curious mind and that will get you further and faster than a bored kid in a school. I learn tons from YT as well. Cheers - Dave
Mate... Awesome instructional video. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful! Please share!
Nice information... I am using this now when i play my RC using winch... Thank you...
Really useful information Robert - many thanks
Glad it was helpful!
Excellent explanation.
Glad it was helpful!
The #3 and the #6 one line suspension vs. two line suspension baffles me. I will keep studying it. All of it excellent information! mp
Look at my Myth video
That was really cool! Thanks!
Thanks please share 👍
Big thanks for putting this together. Very useful information. Thankfully over many years of off-roading, I've rarely had to use my winch. The most memorable occasion was at Native Dog Flat in Vic, where in front of a few bemused campers, I set up an elaborate system with block and tackle to winch up my solar shower. A completely unnecessary display of idiocy, but fun nonetheless! Cheers - Dave
Good info.
thank you for great detail video
Glad it was helpful!
Excellent!
Many thanks! Please share :-)
Great video
Thanks!
Great! Thank you.
#6 was a revelation to me. I can imagine all sorts of scenarios where cutting the load on the winching vehicle in half would be really beneficial. #9 also useful. Thanks
Thanks, yes #6 is super useful and very few people know. Please share!
I have a really light Japanese truck. Would this be the best method I have to unstuck a car to minimize load on the truck?
I have a really light Japanese truck. Would this be the best method I have to unstuck a car to minimize load on the truck?
Great video 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Thanks 👍 please share :-)
Brilliant. Thank you.
Thanks please share 😁
You should also cover the impact of offsetting the rigging --- it can magnify force tremendously.
❤️🙏 Love from Scotland 🙏❤️
Thank you Rob, simple explanation of principles involved. 👍
Great! Do you have video with measurements of the real forces needed for car recovery in various situations? (mud, sand different depth, etc....)
coming...
Thanks for your videos..I’m enjoying them.
On the redirect of #3, I notice you never label the first anchor point as having a load. I assume this is also 1000kg?
Hi the redirect is 2000kg at the top anchor point. This may also be relevant -> ua-cam.com/video/s1h9whPOPn0/v-deo.html
2:13 Where's the winch blanket eh? Naughty naughty!! 😄
:-)
excellent 👍🏻😎
Thanks! Please share 👍
@@L2SFBC of course 😎
In #3 V #6, think of the rope taking the load...
The rope goes to a double FIXED point in #3, load-load
The rope goes to a single FIXED point in #6 and then it's halved through the sheave. A 1-1 ratio folded becomes 1/2
I might of just made this more confusing. That's how I remember it. Fixed points don't move, they have the full load
Great job on the explanations by the way, Thanks
thanks!
nice! make a video with (compound pulley system) by Archimedes
Danke!
Really appreciate the Super Thanks, Sassan!
Thanks. I just want to be able to help in an emergency situation.
In the 9 can i use 2 ancora point ? 1 to the cable second to manual winch . The ratio remain 2:1 ? Thanks for the beautiful video !
8:10 so would it make sense to completely unspool the winch if you're really stuck and need 100% capacity? If so, that would combine with that redirect static method you mentioned @ 8:56
Wow, 8-30% friction loss from the pulley? I would’ve never guessed that much, I would’ve figured maybe 5% at the most. I Always learn something from your videos, this channel will inevitably blow up.
Hi - realsitcally it's 5 to 10%. Carefully measured here -> ua-cam.com/video/rdlRRAbzCzA/v-deo.html
Thanks, appreciate the support, please share!
What if for example #3 the 2nd anchor point is also attached to the car but somewhere else on the front (some mounting point on the chasis) - to me then technicaly the weight is 'suspended' on 2 lines. Does that have an advantage? Am I thinking right? Car pulling itself with a rope from the winch to a pulley and back to the car.
Don't understand the question, sorry?
Ok. What do you do with extra line? Line that can't be retracted on to winch. In the case of a 4 line pull where were are using accessory winch lines. I am really appreciating your instruction. Thanks
I'll be covering that in future...
Regarding #9.
I love the idea of hi-lift 2:1, but how do you reset your rope? Appropriate rope grabs, prussics(might melt), knots (impossible to untie)?
Whoopee slings, X Lock, or a chain.
@@L2SFBC x lock or 2 would be great for longer hauls. I'll check out the others, thanks very much!!!
Snatchblock!
Quality content.
Thank you :-)
Would you recommend the Spanish Burton for stump pulling? Seems like the most advantageous to me but wanted to ask. Thanks.
Any of the configutrations which places more load on the anchor is good for stump pulling.
I’d love a print out of this!
www.4wdbook.com/
Screenshot, control+P
Thanks for this, I learned a lot. But I have a question. What are the load requirements for a rope in a 4 to 1 system. for simplicity say we are picking up 100lbs. Is there a formula to calculate how strong of a rope is needed?
That depends on your setup, if you're only concerned about the rope/cable directly attached to the winch, the strength of that cable needs only be as strong as the load you're attempting to apply (100lb in this case) however, the rope you use to attach the snatch block to the anchor will need to be as strong as your mechanical advantage. So in your case, a 4:1 mechanical advantage means that your anchor will need to be 4 times as strong as the expected tension in the winch cable/rope.
Exactly thank you @
my fav vehicle pajero
I’m glad I don’t need to tow that much. Any insight on kinetic rope towing?
Yes what's your question?
@@L2SFBC are they better than regular tow ropes? Less wear and tear on components?
Yes they are
If I have a lighter vehicle than the stuck vehicle, would I gain power by adding another snatch block at a second tree? If I understand correctly I would give up speed but gain power, right?
You would increase force not power and yes trade speed
5:34 Does this have a MA? I mean you still have to give a 1000 kg equivalent force to pull that right. (Both ends are connected to red car)
Hey brother!! I help run a large scale, Non-profit off-road recovery group out of Las Vegas, NV, USA (SNORR: Southern Nevada Off-road Recovery)... We've used your winch configuration vids a few times for training and they work GREAT! Would you mind if I used your diagrams in a field guide that we can hand out to our volunteers? We'll be including your YT channel on each one..
Sure happy to help if you contact me via my website I can email you some images.
@@L2SFBC I was actually able to grab some great screenshots that worked perfectly for our application.. thank you! Great job on the vids, keep up the great work👍
I still can't make sense of #3.
Edit: I found your myth video and BAM I understood. Thank you!
2nd edit: As I rewatched it I noticed #6 is useful when trying to recover a heavier vehicle.
its because the force of the winch on one side is removed from the other side but i am actually NOT sure. it could be like a fraction minus a fraction of that minus a fraction of that minus a fraction of that minus a fraction of that and so on
Why do you need to put a mat or something like that on the cable when you’re pulling?
I heard someone say because of safety reasons, can someone explain it please
To stop rope or cable whiplash in the event of a breakage. But not required for synth ropes. Check MadMatt 4WD for examples.
Steel cable can store a lot more energy than synthetic rope. If a cable is loaded and then snaps, it can launch itself and the broken ends of the cable can cause damage to bystanders or vehicles. Throwing something heavy, like a heavy floormat, a heavy jacket, etc over the middle of the line can help it drop faster and reduce the whip effect by absorbing some of the energy. Just a matter of safe practice. Steel cables are more durable than synthetic lines, but they can still be damaged/fatigued/corroded and snap if overloaded.
I saw the rigging you did for the hi-lift and I noticed you are not using their recovery kit with the chains etc. I would like to copy that rigging. I was wondering if you could direct me as to what I should be looking for in purchasing winch line extenders, soft shackles as to the type of material, thickness, brands or any other specifics I should be looking at? Searching for either soft shackles or winch line extenders I see quite a few results to choose from - different brands, thickness, materials etc. If you have already done a video on that please direct me. Thank you.
Also, when using the hi-lift for winching, how do you account for the take up in slack/resetting the jack? I understood that was what the chains were for in the kit, but I am wondering if the way you have rigged it with a double-line pull that the jack travels up and need to be reset less frequently? Still, I think I'm missing something in understanding how to get the length right with the straps and winch line?
Just as a side note observation, another benefit I see after studying your example of hi-lift winching is that the operator is no longer in direct line of rigging but off to the side. Even though the offset is small, I would take that as an additional margin of safety in case something fails - less chance of being hit by something.
I drive a lowered car. But i still think i can use this stuff
#3 and #6 seem to be identical to me with the exception that #6 uses a vehicle as an anchor point instead of a rock or tree... That said, I'm failing to understand why you'd list the weight of the yellow truck in example 6 as opposed to listing the mechanical advantage and force the red rig (with snatch block) is exerting on the yellow rig.... In this case, and as demonstrated in example three, is 2000kg.
For simplicity, you can take the frame where you showed the two examples and flip #6 around and it'll mimic #3 exactly...
So, though the yellow rig in example 6 still weighs 1000kg... There would still be a force of 2000kg upon it if rigged this way....
Am I thinking through this correctly?
Ah but there is the difference. One is a simple redirect with no MA. In all cases the yellow truck requires 1000kg to move. Whether the winch needs 500kg or 1000kg to move is the question, and the effect on the anchor. But I'm not sure I've fully understood your question?
Start with the force needed to move the object in question and calculate all your other forces from there. Thus example #6 doesn't have 2,000kg on the yellow car because the yellow car is what we're trying to move and it only takes 1,000kg of force on it to move it regardless of how we apply the force.
Good videos and not saying your wrong but if Im lifting 1ton in a crane, thats 1ton of load (simplistically saying). A crane is similar to a redirect.
Depends how you rig it!
#5 and #6 are basically the same thing right? Is one better than the other?
No..different. One splits the anchor load, the other does not.
is there any limit to how man parts can be used? like can you make a block with 100 sheaves?
No limit, but the friction with 100 sheaves would make it unworkable.
4:28 is not pointless thing since there will be less rope on the spool which gives you more torque. ;)
Not by much.
Like the video, and I am not an engineer, but I disagree with the logic in scenario 3 (redirect). I cannot see how you would get 2000 kg force on the pulley. The pulley does not move, the anchor line does not move. There is no mechanical advantage anywhere (or friction at the pulley) This scenario would be the same as if you tied a knot in the rope to stop it going through the pulley, you would still only have the pulley resisting a direct line pull of 1000 kg.
ua-cam.com/video/s1h9whPOPn0/v-deo.html
I used a hi lift as a winch once. Key word- once, haha. That was a long night...
But it worked...better than nothing!
@@L2SFBC That it did.
Correction on below comment. there is 1000Kg on pulley but no MA when you move the anchor off the vehicle.
l2sfbc.com/you-can-get-mechanical-advantage-from-a-snatch-block-that-doesnt-move/
How do you get a higher speed of pull?
No easy way to do that. You can put more rope on your winch drum, but that has the effect of slowing the winch motor so not much of a gain.
Darn. I was thinking there has to be some way to do a compound set up that would result in higher speed/lower strength pull - I can't picture it, and I've never seen it before either. Like if the load and winch switched places, more or less.
Not like gearing unfortunately. Would need gear the average 4x4 user doesn't have. Can't think of a way to do it otherwise l.
@@aus71383 It can be done if the winch is on the recovery vehicle, not the stuck vehilce. Hook the snatch block on the end of the recovery vehicle's winch line. Set up a 2nd line running from the stuck vehicle, around the pulley of the snatch block and back to an anchor beside stuck vehicle. For every 1m of rope you winch in the stuck vehilce will travel 2m. Half the MA, twice the speed.
Math class
I just can't wrap my head around why #2, the double line, isn't a 1:1 pull on the car. It would be 2:1 on the tree, if you were pulling it as a log, but it seems the equivalent of hooking a rope to your waist that goes through a pulley on the ceiling, then you try to pull yourself up. Yah, each rope will have 100 lbs on a 200lb man, but the mechanical advantage is at the ceiling, not the man.
Thinking of a z-rig: you have a 1:1, then add a 2:1 for a 3:1-- this scenario seems no different than the 1:1 of that system.
Thanks
Does this help -> ua-cam.com/video/s1h9whPOPn0/v-deo.html
"Yah, each rope will have 100 lbs on a 200lb man, but the mechanical advantage is at the ceiling, not the man." Actually, it's not at the ceiling. The ceiling is supporting the weight of the man. If the ceiling was a log that didn't move (an anchor) how much force would be on the winching vehicle and how much is on the winch?
Yes, really helps to think of a vertical load!
if you weighed 200# and tied a rope to your waist, and looped the other end around a pulley to pull with your hands; you would only need to be able to pull 100# of tension on the one side of the rope to cause an additional 100# of pull on your waist and get a total of 200# of pull. - but you would have to pull 2 feet of rope to lift yourself 1 foot.
@@kenbrown2808 Thanks.
i dont know why nobody caught this but on 2 and 8 the the force needed is 250 not 500
Are you really sure about this? Would there be a reason why nobody else has 'caught' this?
Am I nuts or does he keep doing the same exact setup?
You're nuts 😁
So number 3 is the same as 7 and the 2000 is not true its only 1000 its just a redirect so its no more then the max load.
Fyi 4:00 you are wrong about 2000kg on the one anchor point. In reality it would be 1000kg on each of the two anchors.
So, nearly 100k views, lots of qualified people saying it's right and you say it's wrong. Could you perhaps consider the possibilty that you may be mistaken? If not, then watch this which I made especially for people who have your view -> ua-cam.com/video/s1h9whPOPn0/v-deo.html Or find a physics professor or engineer. Then, please come back and comment again.
Someone is wrong...just watched a video where fixed pulleys are redirect and offer no MA. They said a pulley has to move to help. You say it doesn’t...someone’s wrong
Look at my Myth video then tell me what you think
And check my website
@ Sawbone IOMC just think about it for a sec. what is the simplest setup? a 2:1 where you run the rope out of the winch to a pulley on an anchor, such as a tree, then back to the vehicle. That pulley isn’t moving but your getting a 2:1 ma.
The other videos you watched are correct. Moving pulleys are the only thing that give you mechanical advantage. In his #2 example he claims he hauls 1m of rope and only moves a 1/2 meter. But what he is doing is changing his hauling position on the rope and counting that as mechanical advantage. Imagine for a minute the winch just pulled the line straight back from the bumper instead of rolling it. If he moved the haul line 1m back from the original position of the bumper the bumper (ie load) would move 1m up from his original position this a 1 to 1 movement. This video doesn't explain the mechanical advantage well at all. There is a book called basic machines pub 1994 that explains it way better.
@@michaelalcocer6778 ua-cam.com/video/M2w3NZzPwOM/v-deo.html&vl=en
Number 3# is wrong because the rope is stationary
Are you sure about that?
No sorry, i Think i was sleepy when I watched it the first time.
Do you know how to calculate the pulling force needed for a recovery,
Yes more on that soon
2nd example is not going to make any MA, regardless of double rope. Should revers the winch and the anchor, in that case MA=2.
3rd example will not give 2000 on anchor, only 1000. Didn't watch 4 and other's. It is common mistake.
Just take rope, block, 1 kilo and steelyard and show the video, not pictures.
You're wrong on both counts. Watch this which explains #3 -> ua-cam.com/video/s1h9whPOPn0/v-deo.html
@@L2SFBC
You are right about 3rd. It is 2000 on anchor.
How you make MA=2 in 2nd, with fix block?
Think of the load as being supported vertically. Then it is clear there is half the load on each line. While the block is fixed, the vehicle is not, so there is, in effect, movement of the block.
Isn't this correct for moving block: when anchor and winch on one side, and load on opposite?
Not sure what you mean sorry
Using 1 snatch block, 1 hand winch a 2nd vehicle and?
I don't get your question?
9 ways to rig a winch, or 9 was to get shafted by blo body ads? I didn't see anything because ads pis s me off.
#2 is wrong. There is no mechanical advantage of a single pulley! a single pulley changes direction of pull only. The force required to move an object remains the same.
l2sfbc.com/you-can-get-mechanical-advantage-from-a-snatch-block-that-doesnt-move/
Your double line explanation is wrong> you have a 1000 Kg on each line which makes the force at the pulley 2000Kg. there is no mechanical advantage without a moving pully
You really need to stop making videos until you truly understand Mechanical Advantage. A pulley that is stationary is only a change of direction, not an MA.
Simply not true. A double line pull for example.
You might want to check your facts before making such a bold claim. Firstly, using a single pully for a 2:1 mechanical advantage is in every 4wd training manual. It's the recommended way of using a hand winch and there and hundreds of videos available demonstrating this. In the case where the rope attaches back to the vehicle being moved, there is a 2:1 mechanical advantage. 2 metres of cable in moves the vehicle forward 1 metre. It's that simple. This is different to the case where the pully goes back to an anchor. In that case you are correct that it's simply a redirect.
Your comment is only true if the load or the 'winch' is also stationary.
@@drgloverable Not quite, if you have a redirect and pull instead of winch both the load and winch are moving but still the mechanical advantage is non-existent.
You have much to learn about the force young padawan.
If you were to call yourself Bobby Pepper, you could be Bobby Pepper the Gobby Prepper