I was using a PodXT Live through a full-range PA wedge in church once and a guy who visited the church for the first time walked up after service and asked where I was hiding the amp. A guitarist with a particular style and of a certain level will sound like themselves through everything with very little variance.
I had owned four strats, when in 1991 , I bought a used 57 reissue strat into which the previous owner had installed white EMG's. As I liked the feel of it, and it sounded good, unplugged, I bought it without plugging it in to hear through an amp, thinking I would probably change the pickups anyway. After taking it home and putting it into my amp, I realised that the active pickups were voiced really well, so I kept them for a while, because they weren't noisy in live situations. After a while though, it was easy to see what the pickups lacked ; expression. Every note I played, apart from slight variations in volume from light or heavy picking, had pretty much the same preordained compression and attack envelope, no matter how the note was played. In other words, it took me a few months to realise my pickups weren't being voiced by how I hit the strings, and they weren't reproducing the nuances in my playing in the usual way a passive pickup ( although noisily) would do. So even just with active pre-amped pickups, some of your touch is not being conveyed through a system that is set to produce a similar ."ideal", attack envelope, that will be mostly the same no matter who plays it. If everyone used analogue effects from passive pickups into tube amps and mic'd speakers, there would still be some fine difference in finished sound because the gear is interacting dynamically with the player in real-time,... not pre-set! Some of the responsiveness in tube amps and analougue gear is down to mechanical inefficiencies that a good guitarist will ride subconciously as they play right into the amp, and if they feel the amp, the amp will vary its performance with each variation in touch from any given player. This is why, although it's only about a 7% difference in modeling gear, that's enough to make many players at least partly the same sounding in their final expressed sound. The difference is not great, but those who hear it , in a leveling of many variations into one sound, may feel it makes everyone sound the same.
I think someone was talking out the side of their mouth when they made that statement. There's so much more to the sound than just the modeler, from the type of speaker all the way to the hands that play the instrument.
@@RobertSaxy yep. thats why i never understood why people would comment that. its definitely a good thing. i think its somethign we should all strive for.
We all said something silly at one point in our lives, and there are preconceptions about pretty much anything. I've read comments about how pedals ruin the "purity of the signal" and guitars should only be plugged directly into amps (must be tube only, absolutely no transistors). I've been told that electric guitars are "very digital", probably because electric components are involved. At a point the demon was the pedal with a buffer, at another was the pedal without true-bypass, now it is time for modelers to be misunderstood. It's ok, it will pass
The "sound the same" criticism is true for guitarists all chasing the same Robben Ford and Eric Johnson tones, regardless of the hardware used. Taking John's useful analogy, a difference in the 60s is that Hendrix, Clapton, Townsend and Page were all creating new sounds, not recreating old ones....
Hi John, another thought. I will never have the opportunity to play through a real 100 watt Marshall. But now that I have a Axe fx3 I can. So now that after 50 odd years of listening to "The Song Remains the Same" it has become a wonderful opportunity for me to do just that and to emulate that tone. A lifetime of just being a simple fan but also the fantastic opportunity to sound the same (It is a work in progress)
Ohhh Kayy, well that explains it. I had to quit his channel because he repeatedly makes ridiculous statements. I think he means well, but he sounds a bit like the child in a room of adults who thinks he knows more than he does simply because he's in the same room. The adults humor him, though, because he's there to learn.
Personally, I think he's a massive snob. And I think it's easy being one while receiving free gear that would have been out of reach for most of his viewers from manufacturers to make "reviews". Also, "You all sound the same" is a bit rich coming from a guy whose playing range is the same old 70’s bluesy licks. Not that there's anything wrong with those, but don't pretend you're somehow pushing the boundaries of tone with your tube maps because you're not. Completely and utterly out of touch.
Back in the day they often had cheap or rare gear, engineers with different preferences and there was much variation in micing and recording - the modelers only give you access to top gear in ideal situations emulating the most beloved outcome
Equipment and the use there of can squash the players style out of a performance too. So yes the performance is much more important than the equipment but the equipment can still take away from that performance if not chosen and used correctly.
There is a difference between two players with the same amp who are trying to have their own sound (Wah pedal anyone?) and two players with a modeler setup into FOH that are both trying to sound like the same . I think that a good modeler that is used by a player in search of their own sound for original music can sound very different than the next modeler player. The question though, is does that happen? Do modeler players spend time tweaking an amp model to sound distinct or are they in general chasing a particular sound that they have heard before? Remember that the singers you remember do not have perfect voices (Joe Cocker, Rod Stewart, Bob Dylan). The guitarists sounds you remember don't use a preset on a digital box either. If they use a digital box at all, they spend time tweaking a basic model of a pre, power and cab section till it fits probably one song only. Watch a live show of Mark Knopfler for the range of different sounds he uses for each song.... of course he has many different guitars as well, but I don't think just the guitar sounds different, the signal chain has a lot to do with it too. Perhaps the biggest mistake someone can make with a modeler is to use one model for a whole show.... in other words they don't "all sound the same" so much as the show all sounds the same. Take the time to come up with a group of presets that sound quite different from each other and match the pickup settings and other pedals to that sound. Craft the sound to a song..... even a cover. A cover needs to be close enough to original to be instantly recognizable and just as danceable and sing along to able but the guitar sound can be different if it fits well. It might even enhance it. It's called artistry. Crafting a sound is just as important as crafting your playing.
It’s not the gear that plays the music, it’s the person. I’ve played loads of other peoples rigs and still sound like me. Some people just like to hate on modelling, which is fine. But there is no validity in their statement that we all sound the same. If that was true then everyone who played a Marshall sounds the same, which they don’t. I sound nothing like Leon Todd yet we use the same gear, kinda.
I would say that the approach and playing style is really what makes particular guitarists have a recognisable sound on any guitar amp, or modeller. For example Jonathon has a recognisable style and approach that sounds great, the equipment has subtle differences, but his playing is what really defines him.
How many of the people who accuse digital solutions of all sounding the same also trot out the "tone is in the fingers, man!" argument when players buy analogue gear in an effort to sound like their favourite player? You can't have it both ways. Your sound is an equal conglomeration of the gear you use and the touch, pick attack and articulation you bring as an individual player. Nuno tells the story of playing EVH's rig and being disappointed when he sounded like himself, rather than Eddie. Same goes for two people playing through the same preset on a digital rig. I cover for guitarists on shows in London's West End and often play their guitars through their presets on a Kemper or Fractal unit. A couple of months back I was depping on Starlight Express, sitting in a completely separate room from the auditorium, and halfway through the first act I got a text from the Sound No1 asking if I was doing the gig. She'd recognised me just from knowing how I play, even though it was the same FM9, same patches, same guitar, everything.
Also the argument for High gain amps all sounding similar might come from them actually being often variations of the same circuit. If I remember correctly, rectos and 5150s preamps are very much inspired by the Soldano SLO. In some genres like metal, the industry standard cab is the recto oversized 4x12 with Celestion V30s. Possibly overused, so that it probably contributes to the "sounds the same" factor.
Pink Floyd answered this in that DSOTHM recording footage when people said that the synths and electronic equipment just played itself. They said, ok, you do it! You make DSOTHM! Even people playing synths can sound very unique and different. At least we have a guitar involved.
With any modeller there are almost limitless parameters that players can tweak, so there's no reason that they should sound any more the same than using identical tube amps. Add to that different guitars, other pedals and (above all) techniques, and there's no way they'll sound the same. As you say, experienced players sound like themselves, regardless of what they're playing through.
everyone with a tube amp, mic'd with a 57 and run through a PA sound the same as people with modelers. Sorry guys but by the time its mic'd and comes through a PA it doesnt matter... headrush, helix, QC, Tube amp. Only difference is I'm not carting an 80 lb tube amp to a gig. In the end the audience doesnt know the difference.
hahha i was just coming to write everyone with tube amps particularly worship guitar all sound the same. deluxe reverb or a vox ac30. a bunch of strymon pedals. and lets not forget 70s or 80s rock when everyone had a marshall jcm 800 stack.
I don’t think it is a modeler vs analog issue. I firmly believe most guitarists really aren’t striving for individualism in sound or technique. Nothing wrong with that at all, if that is your thing. Modeling affords the ability to quickly access “traditional” and “modern” amp sounds. By combining these elements, it is easy to fall into a sound trap. Why be a follower, when you can be a leader?
I use digital modellers now due to health problems: I have a stuffed right ankle, sciatica and arthritis in my hands so I physically can't lift heavy amps anymore. I use a Line HX Effects into a small hybrid Vox amp and a Boss GX-100 into the desk with a small Alto wedge to monitor my sound. It all works for me. I've always used a Boss SD-1 overdrive for my lead sound and the HX Effects does a great model of that and of course, the GX-100 does it perfectly.
I think it’s as simple as this: people sound very different on the same acoustic guitar. Add in all the variables of amplification and effects and you’re gonna sound even more different. This whole modeler thing is just bias to keep said person in love with their tube amp. Also for a lot of people using modelers sounding the same as their record is a plus. I’m sorry but I don’t think a tube amp is going to inspire a massive difference when playing live unless you as a player think it will make a massive difference. Moral of the story: play your electrics unplugged or DI more often
I think the disparity between engineering ability when it comes to using the modelers creates enough differences. Plus, audiences want familiar “enough “ and most concert goers can’t tell the difference when done correctly.
Until 2010 I was a real amp guy. From then on I useed different Fractal stuff. Every other guitar player used my equipment then and now sounded like they sounded personally and not like the devices they played through. So no, we do not sound all the same because "guitar is a very expressive instrument", as the great Luke used to say. My experience proves that one more time.
“Tone is in your hands,” “everyone that uses a modeler sounds the same,” I can’t hardly keep up anymore with what they all say. Play music and play what you like on what you like.
Simply put…..modelers make it too easy to copy the sounds of other players. When I started playing back in the ‘80’s, if I wanted to try to get Eddie VanHalen’s or James Hetfield’s sound, I had to try and find info in magazines or interviews to learn what they used….then realize that I would have to save for 25 years to be able to afford the amps, effects, etc. So consequently, I would try to get as close as possible with my Peavey Bandit and some Boss pedals….and failed miserably. Today, people can download the exact presets created by thousands of different players, plug into an interface, and get the target tone recorded onto their computer. The really well made presets get shared or purchased in artist bundles and blammo…..instant gratification! That’s where the problem lies. The struggle to make do with limited gear and inevitably create a sound that’s your own is a lost art in the digital age that few people still possess. Every YT demo video is followed by “What are your settings?” comments. We’re not doing anything unique anymore…..at least most people aren’t…….
Yep. I've heard all this before. I had exactly the same conversations just yesterday with 5 completely random strangers. Of course that retired Mormon tourist from Salt Lake (hi Marvin), had a completely different accent to that young woman from Glasgow. And the jazz dude from Botswana had some interesting ideas on Stan Getz... Those two Aussies (Bruce and... Bruce) were blue singlet ockers... you get the picture. All of them same as... Pick up a guitar, they all leave identical sticky fingerprints all over the fretboard. How will interpol ever catch their suspect now that everyone is identical? Put them in a police lineup (or a stage soundcheck) can't tell them apart! Sure.
There is no way you can say the tone sounded the same between these two amps John played through. The VHT has a warmth and and sustain and bloom to the notes that the Matchless did not. They are designed and built to sound different with the same playing style like John was using. I think the VHT tone that John gets is his best tone. In fact I liked it so much I just bought one and am absolutely in love with it. It has been my main amp for about a month now. It takes a WarmDrive especially well for that singing sustained lead tone at lower home volumes. Anyway, I have no problem hearing tonal differences in amps, digital or analog, when a player switches and plays the same way. Love your playing and tone through the VHT John.
That’s why i use both use digital/analog! 🖤 Only “you can sound like you.” That’s the beauty of music 🎶 crafting your own tone is so special. If it inspires you, it sounds good, it IS good… 😁 Of course, we’re still inspired by others but you won’t sound like Andy Timmons, even if you have the “gear” it’s still you, there’s a genius to John Cordy that only John can use. So just be you! 😎
I've plenty tube amps, cabs AND used modellers since the Digitech rp7 in 97 all the way to the new line6 gear now.... The reason I still sound like me is because I know what tones work for me, I make my own presets. Just downloading a "preset" obviously makes a lot sound the same or similar...just avoid presets, A-B against a real amp if possible and try sounds in a band context at gig volume BEFORE you go on stage.... time spent makes a difference
The modern high gain, lead tone ‘squelch’ that people like to dial into modellers is definitely a thing, as are the ultra pristine, delay/reverbed clean tones, that you don’t really find in traditional amps
Even in the cheapest modeler there are so many adjustable parameters that it all depends on the player. What if we all had a DRRI 65 with a TS in front, or a Plexi with a classic Cry Baby?
Everyone uses modelers as they wish. That’s fine. Keep the dreams alive. But I’ve noticed more of players I know now get all excited about copying a tone rather than finding their own. Objectively, I feel like I have my own tone but I’ve been told I sound like (moderately famous guy). So… just play and embrace what you got and where it’s at.
Given the number of sonic choices in any modern guitar amp modeler, and the variability between them, I can see no logic that we're all going to sound the same because we use modelers. I suspect its just the opposite: if we're all using A Fender Deluxe, AC30 or JTM45 with the same pedals, we'd likely sound more similar. That said, I do think there's a difference in sound and feel between tube amps and models of the same amp. But I think it mostly has to do with the playback system and volume level, not the tone of the amp modeler itself. Ultimately having both options is pretty nice, and we should focus on using them for what they do best.
I wish the guitar community would discuss how we can differentiate ourselves based on our playing, our phrasing, etc in contrast to relying on gear (tone) to differentiate ourselves. Think of all the great pianists, each easily recognizable, who all played Steinways.
When I first heard "they who shall not be named" say this about modeling I thought it was a bit rubbish. I mean how many people play a Fender Deluxe and they all sound different, because we're all individual we all play & sound different. However the point of the processing in post of modeling, the EQ shelf, the noise gate, post IR effects etc, I do think that that ends up being an issue not dissimilar to how major albums all have a similar over polished/processed sonic fingerprint. However I fear that that homogeny is more liable to be from front of house & venues. Although it could just be from players taste...seems many want to sound like an album and not a live band. Perhaps that's simply easier to achieve in modelers?!
I try to at least mostly use my own captures that others don’t have to make sure I don’t sound the same but one things for sure, once you get to a fairly good level is that you will sound like you through most brands and I’ll sound like me. Happy new year 😊
If your going in ears and silent stage, then the drums have to either be isolated behind plexi glass or fully electric. Personally I much prefer an FRFR monitor on stage because of this. I'm 65 and have used multiple tube amps or sometimes solid state amps (Peavy, Roland JC120). Here's the thing, I had less technical issues with the solid state amps back then . Though the tube amps sounded marginally better depending on the amp and venue acoustics. And now I really don't care if my 'amp' is a modeler and an FRFR, in fact I prefer it. I can dial in the stage sound and not have to mic a cab to FOH just plug in direct. And the weight I'm hauling to and from the gig is substantially less.
This is absurd. What does it have to do with digital? To anyone who isn't a devotee to guitar playing and specifically guitar tone, all "guitars sound the same". After all, it's all the same instrument, vibrating strings and transducers. They have no appreciation for humbuckers vs single coils. They might acknowledge the difference between clean and high gain, obviously, but couldn't notice the difference between an EV12L and a V30, or a Mesa Rectifier and a dimed Fender Twin, etc.
Well, if everyone is modelling vintage 30's and SM57's, then yeah, you all sound alike. Don't be afraid to not do what everyone else is doing. Pick a different IR.
Guitarists tend to want to sound just like their guitar hero, so we buy the same gear that their hero used. So yeah, we like to sound just like (fill in the blank).
I'm finding lately that modeled versions of different hi-gain amps sound very different in isolation and only a little different in mix. SLO has more hi-mid and brassy tone. 5150 has more presence, but actually sits back more. JCM has more low mids. And all of that changes drastically if I pre-boost with an 808 or a Precision Drive or an SD-1. But the subtle difference in gristle and 2K and tightness? I'm not finding that between hi-gain models sitting un-boosted in a mix.
Excellent noodling again John. Best in a while 🤘 It's just silly to say that players "all sound the same" because they are using digital gear. I'm guessing what the OP meant was that people on UA-cam are invariably trying to appeal to a wide audience and that tends to make them avoid being too different, or weird or offensive etc. A bit like daytime TV. Even the Tubers being edgy aren't really edgy. I'm certain you know this already. It's the illusion of choice that we've all been sold and now just accept as the norm.
It is like saying that guitarists who play the same make/model of tube amps and/or the same kind of guitars sound the same. It is ridiculous. There may be similarities, but they wont sound exactly the same.
Regardless of the gear, even if virtually identical, it will reflect the players different settings, playing style, etc. Most of a players “sound” is in his / her playing style and settings and the gear is secondary.
I think that there is truth to that in that many will gravitate to the same types of amps and cabs/speakers and sound somewhat similar. But I think this is true with tube amps as well. Since the mid 90s I've played amps that were not that mainstream so I believe I had my own sound (a Fender red knobs Twin was my main amp for a long time). My main tube amp now is a Revv Dynamis 7-40 which sounds quite different from Revv's other higher gain amps. It sounds more vintage. I also play it through G12H-75 Creambacks which are very different to V30s (as were the Eminence speakers in my Twin). As far as modellers go, I also often make different choices in my Helix that most of the videos I see here do. I have used the Revv Gen Red a lot and it doesn't sound like a Mesa or a Marshall to me. Now with 3.8, I use the new Ecstasy models as well as the new Super but all through an OH IR of a 2x12 with H75 Creambacks. So, again, diffrent than the Cali/Uber 4x12s with V30s that a lot of people use in the Helix. So I do think that a lot of that sameness is due to similar amp and cab choices. As for how those tones get heard live, I have not done enough live gigs yet with my pure Helix rig to know what's going on. But the people that come to see us play almost every time and know my band's sound are not complaining.But it's something I want to explore more when we get more time to sound check before gigs. I will also soon add a Fender FR-12 to my rig so that will probably help.
I can tell you: you get Rhett and me to play the same patch in a Helix- you will definitely hear the difference. Not throwing off on him, but that is totally absurd. There's room for all the tools, you just need certain tools for different jobs. Look how many drills, hammers, wrenches there are- all for different jobs.
Not only do I sound different than everyone else using modelers, I sound different from myself song to song, recording to recording, and day to day why? Because I program different amps, IRs, effects, mics, EQ and whatever needed to fit into the mix of any genre. Once again, people that only know how to do one thing talking about something they don't know how to use properly. Oh, and as a bonus, the same for when I play acoustic or bass, same unit, same rig.
Limitations in technique and gear lead to individuality. Think Django, the Edge, Wes Montgomery, Ry Cooder and so on. Alternatively, good standard technique, lots of legato, digital modelling etc take the unique corners off a guitar part.
Not at all.... how many times have we watched our guitar heroes turn up at a concert and get asked on stage, used the bands gear and amps and yep sounded like them not like the other player on the same gear. As you say all guys were on LPs or strats and Marshalls initially, all sounded different.
It's the player plus the gear not either, or! I've been playing guitar for sixty years. Back in the day there were only tube amps, I'm a Fender guy, so I developed a tone I could use with Fender amps. As venues I played in got larger I switched to Marshall's and again got a tone I could use (band mates would probably say I sounded the same). Then fast forward to better PA systems, heavy high watt amps weren't necessary! An AC30 was perfect, again I found a tone I could use. Today I use a Helix, I realized after about six months of setting up patches, my ears tuned every patch to the tone in my head. Didn't matter if the patch was a Deluxe Reverb, or an SLO 100 the tone still sounded like me. Sorry for the long rant but whether you play a full stack tube amp or a Helix modeler your ears will set the tone that works for you. Thanks John for stating reality!
Good points. I know what you are getting at. When it was just tube amps you had to have a particular amp to have a certain sound. Solid state when they came out same thing different brands and models sounded different especially on clean or breakup tones. I could hear the amp and just about tell you what brand it was without seeing it. The. Modeling amps are a different breed all together. Yep too many people use the same patches because they want to copy someone's sound. I catch myself doing this as well sometimes. Dialing in a perfect Tele sound using a Deluxe or AC 30. Why not go over there a little bit mix a preamp and amp that doesn't belong with each other. Change your effects chain and still sound good. I still use tube and solid state amps on stage and I always sound like me. Getting a good stage volume mix without the PA on then throwing on the mics just enough to carry the instruments.
I’ve been to many a show an then only real difference I can hear is the style and the player. I never know (unless I already did) if it’s a marshal or dumble or mesa. A yes each amp back in the day sounded different but that’s cause the made em with what they had at the ready it was nearly as standardized as it is today, an even then the difference is subtle on some of them. Idk maybe I’m not as refined a player as some , but my fractal feels the same as my tube amp. An look everyone plays a marshal, AC30, mesa so we already have a homogeneous base for our collective sound pallet
Cool vid. I’ve noticed, and it backs up Glenn Frickers point, also one you made here, how cabinet/speaker type is a critical variable. Just today I had my HX Stomp get a Brit2203 sound like the AC15 model as I was playing the stomp thru my boss Katana as the power amp/ using its cab/speaker. Glenn’s point with the metal guys is tons are using Vintsge 30s and all sounding the same. I’m not as concerned about sounds being the same though, I don’t like hearing every “hit” song these days virtually sound identically written no matter what genre. But that’s a rant for another day lol. Happy New Year!
I guess Jeff beck will sound like Jeff beck even if he were to play through a boss pocket gt using a squire strat. How and what u play determines your sound...your gear really do not matter that much in grand scheme of things.
If people do sound the same today it's because of how they're playing, not what they're playing through. Good guitar tones are usually somewhat similar just by nature.
I can use your Helix presets and not sound the same as you, even if I'm also using a Strat. I don't play the same and my touch isn't the same. Even if my skill was the same, I'd go different places. Wait a second, hasn't there always been the desire to sound the same as other greats? Isn't that why many people bought the amps they bought for all those decades? We have way more amp models in a modeler and more sounds than if we all just bought a Deluxe Reverb and a Tubescreamer.
The other day i was thinking about this, for the most part its true most digital modeler centric youtube channels do sound the same. But i think the reason for that is that the people behind these channels their guitar playing his highly rooted in either metal or blues playing( I can also add worship). So is it that surprising they also sound simillar?After all they are after the sames sounds. Personally, im more into alternative rock and indie, and the approach of a lot of those guys its much different. Since a lot of them try that their guitars sound like anything besides a traditional guitar sound ( heavy effects pedals usage). Plus these guys are very anti amp modeling ( because its not cool 😂 ). So to the conclusion i rechead its not the modelers, its the players and a market that catters very hard on to some specific guitar styles. Ps: I dont think you sound like those youtubers, and that actually proves my point. Your guitar playing reminds me some sort of modern eric johnson style mixed with ambient sounds( pretty unique when compared to most youtube style content).In the end the difference is the player.
Is there a homogeniety between the tone of piano players? violin players? (insert whatever older than electric guitar instrument) players? Good tones win the tonevolution and become prevelant, nothing wrong with it.
I never heard a PA system that sounded anywhere near as good as Eric Johnson's amps. Not even close. On the other hand, I've heard PA systems that sounded so bad you couldn't even tell what song the band was playing. So if Eric Johnson played a Quad Cortex through a crap PA would it really sound like Eric Johnson?
Since I got my Helix I've been chasing the tone I had in the 90's with my JCM800 into a Laney 4X12 with a drive pedal. I had the HD500X before that as well as different amps and pedals, and couldn't quite get the sound in my head but I think I'm happy with the Helix. Strangely, I'm not using a Marshall amp in the Helix. I've also gone down the rabbit hole and got a Tonex pedal as well. Do I sound like everyone else using a high gain amp sim, no, as they will have their own style of playing which will be different from mine.
Alright, If this were true in the case of realtube amps, manufacturers of tube amps would not mass produce the same model amps for all to own and use. How many people on this planet have played a Fender twin reverb for example and have all sounded different ?
I don’t know if this is a compliment or an insult, but it seems like every piece that you play at the beginning of your videos, using amps or modelers, or Stratz, or tallies, or Les Paul’s, it always does kind of sound the same cause of your hands
Yes, but… not every guitar is the same, not everyone plays the same and not everyone uses the same picks. The signal path from fingers (picks) to the speaker is so widely varying that even the exact same profile would sound different when a different person played through it. We all tend to tweak our presets to our own tastes and this goes for our instruments.
In addition to this, amps back in the 60’s let’s say were all hand made. No single amp was identical to another. Over time those amps age and components wear out or burn in. Tubes vary. Speakers vary. So even the same person playing the same guitar, etc through the same batch of amps would end up being different. In the end we all just need to make ourselves happy making the music that puts a smile on our faces and worry less about what the “Jones’” are doing next door.
If two people play the same digital amp model with the same brand of modeller at the same settings their tone will sound the same. But if two people play the same type of tube amp at the same settings their tone will also sound the same, so the whole criticism is silly. And before any of “tone is in the fingers” people start chirping that nonsense: Technique, and style, are in the fingers. - tone is in the equipment. Yes - two different people playing on the same rig can sound *different*, but that is not a different *tone*. Let’s see you boost the midrange at 500hz by 6db with your fingers, or make a Fender Twin Reverb sound like a Big Muff with your fingers. Those things are elements of *tone*.
I used one of your preset on my Helix. We don't sound the same..close but not the same. If you give me a Fractal and a Helix, I would probably dial-in "my sound" and it probably will sound the same on both modelers... Same thing could probably happen with an Overdrive, delay and reverb pedal into an amp mic'ed up with a 57 :)
Anyone who says that is a moron. There are billions of permutations of tone settings on a modeller. On the contrary anyone who plays a real amp with every knob dimed will sound the same.
I like the creator who said that but it was not a good take. I get his thought process, but when you really break down the argument, it falls flat. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, though.
I think if you're looking for a complaint, any one will suffice... Same people that say they're worried about all the tones sounding the same will then turn around and say tone is in the fingers without batting an eye... Even more ironic, people chasing famous guitar player tone trying to sound exactly like them wow complaining about that homogenization you're talking about. Maybe I will buy a deluxe reverb so I can sound unique.
As the worst guitar player here, I can attest that this isnt true. I have three guitars, all different makes and models. Take the same FM3 preset and every guitar sounds slightly different. There are other presets where each guitar sounds completely different. Add to that the individualism and style of the person playing and we dont make the same sound. We never will.
Generally, in the you tube videos they do all sound the same - good but mostly the same. No real variety in guitar sounds like the old days where every player had their own unique sound... pretty much. I love digital modelling because its a good sound and convenient but I'm keeping my tube amp for those gigs where it's appreciated.
Don't mean this as an insult John but to my ears your tone sounds the same across all the different guitars you play. It's a lovely tone don't get me wrong but the same
Before I even watch the video, I say no, we don't all sound the same. It's just a tool, it depends on how we choose to use it.
I was using a PodXT Live through a full-range PA wedge in church once and a guy who visited the church for the first time walked up after service and asked where I was hiding the amp.
A guitarist with a particular style and of a certain level will sound like themselves through everything with very little variance.
Exactly
I had owned four strats, when in 1991 , I bought a used 57 reissue strat into which the previous owner had installed white EMG's. As I liked the feel of it, and it sounded good, unplugged, I bought it without plugging it in to hear through an amp, thinking I would probably change the pickups anyway. After taking it home and putting it into my amp, I realised that the active pickups were voiced really well, so I kept them for a while, because they weren't noisy in live situations. After a while though, it was easy to see what the pickups lacked ; expression. Every note I played, apart from slight variations in volume from light or heavy picking, had pretty much the same preordained compression and attack envelope, no matter how the note was played. In other words, it took me a few months to realise my pickups weren't being voiced by how I hit the strings, and they weren't reproducing the nuances in my playing in the usual way a passive pickup ( although noisily) would do. So even just with active pre-amped pickups, some of your touch is not being conveyed through a system that is set to produce a similar ."ideal", attack envelope, that will be mostly the same no matter who plays it. If everyone used analogue effects from passive pickups into tube amps and mic'd speakers, there would still be some fine difference in finished sound because the gear is interacting dynamically with the player in real-time,... not pre-set! Some of the responsiveness in tube amps and analougue gear is down to mechanical inefficiencies that a good guitarist will ride subconciously as they play right into the amp, and if they feel the amp, the amp will vary its performance with each variation in touch from any given player. This is why, although it's only about a 7% difference in modeling gear, that's enough to make many players at least partly the same sounding in their final expressed sound. The difference is not great, but those who hear it , in a leveling of many variations into one sound, may feel it makes everyone sound the same.
I think someone was talking out the side of their mouth when they made that statement. There's so much more to the sound than just the modeler, from the type of speaker all the way to the hands that play the instrument.
cue "JNC SOUNDS the SAME through EVERYTHING"🤣
😂 for reals man
He kinda does but it’s not a bad thing, he sounds like himself that’s a good thing
@@RobertSaxy yep. thats why i never understood why people would comment that. its definitely a good thing. i think its somethign we should all strive for.
We all said something silly at one point in our lives, and there are preconceptions about pretty much anything.
I've read comments about how pedals ruin the "purity of the signal" and guitars should only be plugged directly into amps (must be tube only, absolutely no transistors).
I've been told that electric guitars are "very digital", probably because electric components are involved.
At a point the demon was the pedal with a buffer, at another was the pedal without true-bypass, now it is time for modelers to be misunderstood.
It's ok, it will pass
The "sound the same" criticism is true for guitarists all chasing the same Robben Ford and Eric Johnson tones, regardless of the hardware used. Taking John's useful analogy, a difference in the 60s is that Hendrix, Clapton, Townsend and Page were all creating new sounds, not recreating old ones....
Hi John, another thought. I will never have the opportunity to play through a real 100 watt Marshall. But now that I have a Axe fx3 I can. So now that after 50 odd years of listening to "The Song Remains the Same" it has become a wonderful opportunity for me to do just that and to emulate that tone. A lifetime of just being a simple fan but also the fantastic opportunity to sound the same (It is a work in progress)
*OX Box entered the chat*
I love Rhett, but when I heard him say that, I thought he was exaggerating
@@andresj89 as he said it he said he knew he was going to get hate for it. But enraging is engaging so there you go
I think he said it for rage bait but also to justify his videos of "never going full digital"
@@Homermad81 yep. thats it. it keeps the youtube gear news cycle going. there'll be a tonne of reaction videos to it now
Ohhh Kayy, well that explains it. I had to quit his channel because he repeatedly makes ridiculous statements. I think he means well, but he sounds a bit like the child in a room of adults who thinks he knows more than he does simply because he's in the same room. The adults humor him, though, because he's there to learn.
Personally, I think he's a massive snob. And I think it's easy being one while receiving free gear that would have been out of reach for most of his viewers from manufacturers to make "reviews". Also, "You all sound the same" is a bit rich coming from a guy whose playing range is the same old 70’s bluesy licks. Not that there's anything wrong with those, but don't pretend you're somehow pushing the boundaries of tone with your tube maps because you're not. Completely and utterly out of touch.
Back in the day they often had cheap or rare gear, engineers with different preferences and there was much variation in micing and recording - the modelers only give you access to top gear in ideal situations emulating the most beloved outcome
Style means more than equipment
Equipment and the use there of can squash the players style out of a performance too. So yes the performance is much more important than the equipment but the equipment can still take away from that performance if not chosen and used correctly.
There is a difference between two players with the same amp who are trying to have their own sound (Wah pedal anyone?) and two players with a modeler setup into FOH that are both trying to sound like the same . I think that a good modeler that is used by a player in search of their own sound for original music can sound very different than the next modeler player. The question though, is does that happen? Do modeler players spend time tweaking an amp model to sound distinct or are they in general chasing a particular sound that they have heard before? Remember that the singers you remember do not have perfect voices (Joe Cocker, Rod Stewart, Bob Dylan). The guitarists sounds you remember don't use a preset on a digital box either. If they use a digital box at all, they spend time tweaking a basic model of a pre, power and cab section till it fits probably one song only. Watch a live show of Mark Knopfler for the range of different sounds he uses for each song.... of course he has many different guitars as well, but I don't think just the guitar sounds different, the signal chain has a lot to do with it too. Perhaps the biggest mistake someone can make with a modeler is to use one model for a whole show.... in other words they don't "all sound the same" so much as the show all sounds the same. Take the time to come up with a group of presets that sound quite different from each other and match the pickup settings and other pedals to that sound. Craft the sound to a song..... even a cover. A cover needs to be close enough to original to be instantly recognizable and just as danceable and sing along to able but the guitar sound can be different if it fits well. It might even enhance it. It's called artistry. Crafting a sound is just as important as crafting your playing.
It’s not the gear that plays the music, it’s the person. I’ve played loads of other peoples rigs and still sound like me. Some people just like to hate on modelling, which is fine. But there is no validity in their statement that we all sound the same. If that was true then everyone who played a Marshall sounds the same, which they don’t. I sound nothing like Leon Todd yet we use the same gear, kinda.
I would say that the approach and playing style is really what makes particular guitarists have a recognisable sound on any guitar amp, or modeller. For example Jonathon has a recognisable style and approach that sounds great, the equipment has subtle differences, but his playing is what really defines him.
How many of the people who accuse digital solutions of all sounding the same also trot out the "tone is in the fingers, man!" argument when players buy analogue gear in an effort to sound like their favourite player? You can't have it both ways.
Your sound is an equal conglomeration of the gear you use and the touch, pick attack and articulation you bring as an individual player. Nuno tells the story of playing EVH's rig and being disappointed when he sounded like himself, rather than Eddie. Same goes for two people playing through the same preset on a digital rig. I cover for guitarists on shows in London's West End and often play their guitars through their presets on a Kemper or Fractal unit. A couple of months back I was depping on Starlight Express, sitting in a completely separate room from the auditorium, and halfway through the first act I got a text from the Sound No1 asking if I was doing the gig. She'd recognised me just from knowing how I play, even though it was the same FM9, same patches, same guitar, everything.
Modelers have their place ...that said...they just allow us thr Guitar tone Gluttony we all desire... Freddy Mercury said it best..."I WANT IT ALL"😊
Also the argument for High gain amps all sounding similar might come from them actually being often variations of the same circuit. If I remember correctly, rectos and 5150s preamps are very much inspired by the Soldano SLO.
In some genres like metal, the industry standard cab is the recto oversized 4x12 with Celestion V30s.
Possibly overused, so that it probably contributes to the "sounds the same" factor.
Pink Floyd answered this in that DSOTHM recording footage when people said that the synths and electronic equipment just played itself. They said, ok, you do it! You make DSOTHM! Even people playing synths can sound very unique and different. At least we have a guitar involved.
With any modeller there are almost limitless parameters that players can tweak, so there's no reason that they should sound any more the same than using identical tube amps. Add to that different guitars, other pedals and (above all) techniques, and there's no way they'll sound the same. As you say, experienced players sound like themselves, regardless of what they're playing through.
everyone with a tube amp, mic'd with a 57 and run through a PA sound the same as people with modelers. Sorry guys but by the time its mic'd and comes through a PA it doesnt matter... headrush, helix, QC, Tube amp. Only difference is I'm not carting an 80 lb tube amp to a gig. In the end the audience doesnt know the difference.
Agreed.
hahha i was just coming to write everyone with tube amps particularly worship guitar all sound the same. deluxe reverb or a vox ac30. a bunch of strymon pedals. and lets not forget 70s or 80s rock when everyone had a marshall jcm 800 stack.
This
Each tube amp sounds different. Each preset sounds different. I just think digital doesn’t feel as good under the fingers
Ultimate cope wedding covers band player comment.
I don’t think it is a modeler vs analog issue. I firmly believe most guitarists really aren’t striving for individualism in sound or technique. Nothing wrong with that at all, if that is your thing. Modeling affords the ability to quickly access “traditional” and “modern” amp sounds. By combining these elements, it is easy to fall into a sound trap. Why be a follower, when you can be a leader?
I use digital modellers now due to health problems: I have a stuffed right ankle, sciatica and arthritis in my hands so I physically can't lift heavy amps anymore. I use a Line HX Effects into a small hybrid Vox amp and a Boss GX-100 into the desk with a small Alto wedge to monitor my sound. It all works for me. I've always used a Boss SD-1 overdrive for my lead sound and the HX Effects does a great model of that and of course, the GX-100 does it perfectly.
I think it’s as simple as this: people sound very different on the same acoustic guitar. Add in all the variables of amplification and effects and you’re gonna sound even more different.
This whole modeler thing is just bias to keep said person in love with their tube amp. Also for a lot of people using modelers sounding the same as their record is a plus. I’m sorry but I don’t think a tube amp is going to inspire a massive difference when playing live unless you as a player think it will make a massive difference.
Moral of the story: play your electrics unplugged or DI more often
I think the disparity between engineering ability when it comes to using the modelers creates enough differences. Plus, audiences want familiar “enough “ and most concert goers can’t tell the difference when done correctly.
Until 2010 I was a real amp guy. From then on I useed different Fractal stuff. Every other guitar player used my equipment then and now sounded like they sounded personally and not like the devices they played through. So no, we do not sound all the same because "guitar is a very expressive instrument", as the great Luke used to say. My experience proves that one more time.
“Tone is in your hands,” “everyone that uses a modeler sounds the same,” I can’t hardly keep up anymore with what they all say. Play music and play what you like on what you like.
I think all violins sound the same. They possibly do. I have no idea.
That lead sound in your first music segment was pretty dope, though.
Simply put…..modelers make it too easy to copy the sounds of other players. When I started playing back in the ‘80’s, if I wanted to try to get Eddie VanHalen’s or James Hetfield’s sound, I had to try and find info in magazines or interviews to learn what they used….then realize that I would have to save for 25 years to be able to afford the amps, effects, etc. So consequently, I would try to get as close as possible with my Peavey Bandit and some Boss pedals….and failed miserably. Today, people can download the exact presets created by thousands of different players, plug into an interface, and get the target tone recorded onto their computer. The really well made presets get shared or purchased in artist bundles and blammo…..instant gratification! That’s where the problem lies. The struggle to make do with limited gear and inevitably create a sound that’s your own is a lost art in the digital age that few people still possess. Every YT demo video is followed by “What are your settings?” comments. We’re not doing anything unique anymore…..at least most people aren’t…….
Yep. I've heard all this before. I had exactly the same conversations just yesterday with 5 completely random strangers.
Of course that retired Mormon tourist from Salt Lake (hi Marvin), had a completely different accent to that young woman from Glasgow.
And the jazz dude from Botswana had some interesting ideas on Stan Getz... Those two Aussies (Bruce and... Bruce) were blue singlet ockers... you get the picture.
All of them same as...
Pick up a guitar, they all leave identical sticky fingerprints all over the fretboard.
How will interpol ever catch their suspect now that everyone is identical? Put them in a police lineup (or a stage soundcheck) can't tell them apart!
Sure.
There is no way you can say the tone sounded the same between these two amps John played through. The VHT has a warmth and and sustain and bloom to the notes that the Matchless did not. They are designed and built to sound different with the same playing style like John was using. I think the VHT tone that John gets is his best tone. In fact I liked it so much I just bought one and am absolutely in love with it. It has been my main amp for about a month now. It takes a WarmDrive especially well for that singing sustained lead tone at lower home volumes. Anyway, I have no problem hearing tonal differences in amps, digital or analog, when a player switches and plays the same way. Love your playing and tone through the VHT John.
That’s why i use both use digital/analog! 🖤
Only “you can sound like you.” That’s the beauty of music 🎶 crafting your own tone is so special.
If it inspires you, it sounds good, it IS good… 😁
Of course, we’re still inspired by others but you won’t sound like Andy Timmons, even if you have the “gear” it’s still you, there’s a genius to John
Cordy that only John can use. So just be you! 😎
I've plenty tube amps, cabs AND used modellers since the Digitech rp7 in 97 all the way to the new line6 gear now.... The reason I still sound like me is because I know what tones work for me, I make my own presets. Just downloading a "preset" obviously makes a lot sound the same or similar...just avoid presets, A-B against a real amp if possible and try sounds in a band context at gig volume BEFORE you go on stage.... time spent makes a difference
The modern high gain, lead tone ‘squelch’ that people like to dial into modellers is definitely a thing, as are the ultra pristine, delay/reverbed clean tones, that you don’t really find in traditional amps
Even in the cheapest modeler there are so many adjustable parameters that it all depends on the player. What if we all had a DRRI 65 with a TS in front, or a Plexi with a classic Cry Baby?
Everyone uses modelers as they wish. That’s fine. Keep the dreams alive. But I’ve noticed more of players I know now get all excited about copying a tone rather than finding their own. Objectively, I feel like I have my own tone but I’ve been told I sound like (moderately famous guy). So… just play and embrace what you got and where it’s at.
Given the number of sonic choices in any modern guitar amp modeler, and the variability between them, I can see no logic that we're all going to sound the same because we use modelers. I suspect its just the opposite: if we're all using A Fender Deluxe, AC30 or JTM45 with the same pedals, we'd likely sound more similar. That said, I do think there's a difference in sound and feel between tube amps and models of the same amp. But I think it mostly has to do with the playback system and volume level, not the tone of the amp modeler itself. Ultimately having both options is pretty nice, and we should focus on using them for what they do best.
I wish the guitar community would discuss how we can differentiate ourselves based on our playing, our phrasing, etc in contrast to relying on gear (tone) to differentiate ourselves. Think of all the great pianists, each easily recognizable, who all played Steinways.
When I first heard "they who shall not be named" say this about modeling I thought it was a bit rubbish. I mean how many people play a Fender Deluxe and they all sound different, because we're all individual we all play & sound different. However the point of the processing in post of modeling, the EQ shelf, the noise gate, post IR effects etc, I do think that that ends up being an issue not dissimilar to how major albums all have a similar over polished/processed sonic fingerprint. However I fear that that homogeny is more liable to be from front of house & venues. Although it could just be from players taste...seems many want to sound like an album and not a live band. Perhaps that's simply easier to achieve in modelers?!
I try to at least mostly use my own captures that others don’t have to make sure I don’t sound the same but one things for sure, once you get to a fairly good level is that you will sound like you through most brands and I’ll sound like me. Happy new year 😊
If your going in ears and silent stage, then the drums have to either be isolated behind plexi glass or fully electric. Personally I much prefer an FRFR monitor on stage because of this. I'm 65 and have used multiple tube amps or sometimes solid state amps (Peavy, Roland JC120). Here's the thing, I had less technical issues with the solid state amps back then . Though the tube amps sounded marginally better depending on the amp and venue acoustics. And now I really don't care if my 'amp' is a modeler and an FRFR, in fact I prefer it. I can dial in the stage sound and not have to mic a cab to FOH just plug in direct. And the weight I'm hauling to and from the gig is substantially less.
shoutout to all the LINE-6'S sitting behind broken marshalls
If anyone out there sounds like me you have my sympathies! And my sincere apologies 😂
This is absurd. What does it have to do with digital?
To anyone who isn't a devotee to guitar playing and specifically guitar tone, all "guitars sound the same".
After all, it's all the same instrument, vibrating strings and transducers.
They have no appreciation for humbuckers vs single coils. They might acknowledge the difference between clean and high gain, obviously, but couldn't notice the difference between an EV12L and a V30, or a Mesa Rectifier and a dimed Fender Twin, etc.
As someone who uses the qc professionally, i agree it does sound sterile across amps/cabs/drives
Well, if everyone is modelling vintage 30's and SM57's, then yeah, you all sound alike. Don't be afraid to not do what everyone else is doing. Pick a different IR.
Guitarists tend to want to sound just like their guitar hero, so we buy the same gear that their hero used. So yeah, we like to sound just like (fill in the blank).
I'm finding lately that modeled versions of different hi-gain amps sound very different in isolation and only a little different in mix. SLO has more hi-mid and brassy tone. 5150 has more presence, but actually sits back more. JCM has more low mids. And all of that changes drastically if I pre-boost with an 808 or a Precision Drive or an SD-1. But the subtle difference in gristle and 2K and tightness? I'm not finding that between hi-gain models sitting un-boosted in a mix.
that's just absurd. But people who all use Fender Deluxe Reverbs DEFINITELY all sound the same....(tongue firmly in cheek).
Excellent noodling again John. Best in a while 🤘
It's just silly to say that players "all sound the same" because they are using digital gear. I'm guessing what the OP meant was that people on UA-cam are invariably trying to appeal to a wide audience and that tends to make them avoid being too different, or weird or offensive etc. A bit like daytime TV. Even the Tubers being edgy aren't really edgy. I'm certain you know this already. It's the illusion of choice that we've all been sold and now just accept as the norm.
It is like saying that guitarists who play the same make/model of tube amps and/or the same kind of guitars sound the same. It is ridiculous. There may be similarities, but they wont sound exactly the same.
Regardless of the gear, even if virtually identical, it will reflect the players different settings, playing style, etc. Most of a players “sound” is in his / her playing style and settings and the gear is secondary.
Depends. Are we now saying tone is in the amp and not in the hands?
Old guys: tone is all in the hands.
Also old guys: OMG digital sounds so much worse than analog.
90% of the audience with no music sense will only listen to the tune and not the tone. Guitarists only use "tone" as an excuse to buy more gear.
Jim Lill enters the chat...😮
Yeah Jim basically destroyed the musical instrument marketing machine for me.
@Twominutedevotions too much focus on tone and not enough on technique. It's a profitable obsession for the manufacturers.
I think that there is truth to that in that many will gravitate to the same types of amps and cabs/speakers and sound somewhat similar. But I think this is true with tube amps as well. Since the mid 90s I've played amps that were not that mainstream so I believe I had my own sound (a Fender red knobs Twin was my main amp for a long time). My main tube amp now is a Revv Dynamis 7-40 which sounds quite different from Revv's other higher gain amps. It sounds more vintage. I also play it through G12H-75 Creambacks which are very different to V30s (as were the Eminence speakers in my Twin).
As far as modellers go, I also often make different choices in my Helix that most of the videos I see here do. I have used the Revv Gen Red a lot and it doesn't sound like a Mesa or a Marshall to me. Now with 3.8, I use the new Ecstasy models as well as the new Super but all through an OH IR of a 2x12 with H75 Creambacks. So, again, diffrent than the Cali/Uber 4x12s with V30s that a lot of people use in the Helix.
So I do think that a lot of that sameness is due to similar amp and cab choices.
As for how those tones get heard live, I have not done enough live gigs yet with my pure Helix rig to know what's going on. But the people that come to see us play almost every time and know my band's sound are not complaining.But it's something I want to explore more when we get more time to sound check before gigs. I will also soon add a Fender FR-12 to my rig so that will probably help.
I can tell you: you get Rhett and me to play the same patch in a Helix- you will definitely hear the difference. Not throwing off on him, but that is totally absurd. There's room for all the tools, you just need certain tools for different jobs. Look how many drills, hammers, wrenches there are- all for different jobs.
Not only do I sound different than everyone else using modelers, I sound different from myself song to song, recording to recording, and day to day why? Because I program different amps, IRs, effects, mics, EQ and whatever needed to fit into the mix of any genre. Once again, people that only know how to do one thing talking about something they don't know how to use properly. Oh, and as a bonus, the same for when I play acoustic or bass, same unit, same rig.
Limitations in technique and gear lead to individuality. Think Django, the Edge, Wes Montgomery, Ry Cooder and so on. Alternatively, good standard technique, lots of legato, digital modelling etc take the unique corners off a guitar part.
Not at all.... how many times have we watched our guitar heroes turn up at a concert and get asked on stage, used the bands gear and amps and yep sounded like them not like the other player on the same gear. As you say all guys were on LPs or strats and Marshalls initially, all sounded different.
It's the player plus the gear not either, or! I've been playing guitar for sixty years. Back in the day there were only tube amps, I'm a Fender guy, so I developed a tone I could use with Fender amps. As venues I played in got larger I switched to Marshall's and again got a tone I could use (band mates would probably say I sounded the same). Then fast forward to better PA systems, heavy high watt amps weren't necessary! An AC30 was perfect, again I found a tone I could use. Today I use a Helix, I realized after about six months of setting up patches, my ears tuned every patch to the tone in my head. Didn't matter if the patch was a Deluxe Reverb, or an SLO 100 the tone still sounded like me. Sorry for the long rant but whether you play a full stack tube amp or a Helix modeler your ears will set the tone that works for you. Thanks John for stating reality!
Good points. I know what you are getting at. When it was just tube amps you had to have a particular amp to have a certain sound. Solid state when they came out same thing different brands and models sounded different especially on clean or breakup tones. I could hear the amp and just about tell you what brand it was without seeing it. The. Modeling amps are a different breed all together. Yep too many people use the same patches because they want to copy someone's sound. I catch myself doing this as well sometimes. Dialing in a perfect Tele sound using a Deluxe or AC 30. Why not go over there a little bit mix a preamp and amp that doesn't belong with each other. Change your effects chain and still sound good. I still use tube and solid state amps on stage and I always sound like me. Getting a good stage volume mix without the PA on then throwing on the mics just enough to carry the instruments.
That's like saying that Hendrix, Page, Dave Mustaine and Slash sound the same through their Marshalls smh
It's not. You just ignored the whole recording process
@summersendband So Plini and Cory Wong both use QC live. Do they sound the same?
I’ve been to many a show an then only real difference I can hear is the style and the player. I never know (unless I already did) if it’s a marshal or dumble or mesa. A yes each amp back in the day sounded different but that’s cause the made em with what they had at the ready it was nearly as standardized as it is today, an even then the difference is subtle on some of them. Idk maybe I’m not as refined a player as some , but my fractal feels the same as my tube amp. An look everyone plays a marshal, AC30, mesa so we already have a homogeneous base for our collective sound pallet
Give Van Gogh and Rembrandt identical canvas and paints and the outcomes won't be the same.
Somebodies been watching Dipped in Tone....
Cool vid. I’ve noticed, and it backs up Glenn Frickers point, also one you made here, how cabinet/speaker type is a critical variable. Just today I had my HX Stomp get a Brit2203 sound like the AC15 model as I was playing the stomp thru my boss Katana as the power amp/ using its cab/speaker. Glenn’s point with the metal guys is tons are using Vintsge 30s and all sounding the same. I’m not as concerned about sounds being the same though, I don’t like hearing every “hit” song these days virtually sound identically written no matter what genre. But that’s a rant for another day lol. Happy New Year!
I guess Jeff beck will sound like Jeff beck even if he were to play through a boss pocket gt using a squire strat. How and what u play determines your sound...your gear really do not matter that much in grand scheme of things.
Just say that Rhett shull said it lol
I play a Headrush Prime and sound totally original. That's because I have no idea what I'm doing with it.
If people do sound the same today it's because of how they're playing, not what they're playing through. Good guitar tones are usually somewhat similar just by nature.
I can use your Helix presets and not sound the same as you, even if I'm also using a Strat. I don't play the same and my touch isn't the same. Even if my skill was the same, I'd go different places.
Wait a second, hasn't there always been the desire to sound the same as other greats? Isn't that why many people bought the amps they bought for all those decades? We have way more amp models in a modeler and more sounds than if we all just bought a Deluxe Reverb and a Tubescreamer.
Everyone can buy a hammer but they’ll all go off and build their own houses
I want a signature hammer
The other day i was thinking about this, for the most part its true most digital modeler centric youtube channels do sound the same. But i think the reason for that is that the people behind these channels their guitar playing his highly rooted in either metal or blues playing( I can also add worship). So is it that surprising they also sound simillar?After all they are after the sames sounds.
Personally, im more into alternative rock and indie, and the approach of a lot of those guys its much different. Since a lot of them try that their guitars sound like anything besides a traditional guitar sound ( heavy effects pedals usage). Plus these guys are very anti amp modeling ( because its not cool 😂 ).
So to the conclusion i rechead its not the modelers, its the players and a market that catters very hard on to some specific guitar styles.
Ps: I dont think you sound like those youtubers, and that actually proves my point. Your guitar playing reminds me some sort of modern eric johnson style mixed with ambient sounds( pretty unique when compared to most youtube style content).In the end the difference is the player.
Great players all sound diferent, no matter what they are using. Those make a signature sound.
Maybe people using similar gear try to play similarly? Not just models but all gear.
Wow John that intro progression with the 12 string effect took me back to the 70’s when The Birds were popular and used the Rickenbacker electric 12.
Is there a homogeniety between the tone of piano players? violin players? (insert whatever older than electric guitar instrument) players?
Good tones win the tonevolution and become prevelant, nothing wrong with it.
I never heard a PA system that sounded anywhere near as good as Eric Johnson's amps. Not even close. On the other hand, I've heard PA systems that sounded so bad you couldn't even tell what song the band was playing. So if Eric Johnson played a Quad Cortex through a crap PA would it really sound like Eric Johnson?
Since I got my Helix I've been chasing the tone I had in the 90's with my JCM800 into a Laney 4X12 with a drive pedal. I had the HD500X before that as well as different amps and pedals, and couldn't quite get the sound in my head but I think I'm happy with the Helix. Strangely, I'm not using a Marshall amp in the Helix. I've also gone down the rabbit hole and got a Tonex pedal as well. Do I sound like everyone else using a high gain amp sim, no, as they will have their own style of playing which will be different from mine.
Alright,
If this were true in the case of realtube amps, manufacturers of tube amps would not mass produce the same model amps for all to own and use. How many people on this planet have played a Fender twin reverb for example and have all sounded different ?
I don’t know if this is a compliment or an insult, but it seems like every piece that you play at the beginning of your videos, using amps or modelers, or Stratz, or tallies, or Les Paul’s, it always does kind of sound the same cause of your hands
/sarcasm:
Maybe if we all used Marshall Super Leads and 4x12’s with greenbacks and an SM57, we’d all sound the same, right? JK!
Note to self: don’t comment before watching the whole video ;). Cheers John!
Yes, but… not every guitar is the same, not everyone plays the same and not everyone uses the same picks.
The signal path from fingers (picks) to the speaker is so widely varying that even the exact same profile would sound different when a different person played through it.
We all tend to tweak our presets to our own tastes and this goes for our instruments.
In addition to this, amps back in the 60’s let’s say were all hand made. No single amp was identical to another. Over time those amps age and components wear out or burn in. Tubes vary. Speakers vary.
So even the same person playing the same guitar, etc through the same batch of amps would end up being different.
In the end we all just need to make ourselves happy making the music that puts a smile on our faces and worry less about what the “Jones’” are doing next door.
If two people play the same digital amp model with the same brand of modeller at the same settings their tone will sound the same. But if two people play the same type of tube amp at the same settings their tone will also sound the same, so the whole criticism is silly. And before any of “tone is in the fingers” people start chirping that nonsense: Technique, and style, are in the fingers. - tone is in the equipment. Yes - two different people playing on the same rig can sound *different*, but that is not a different *tone*. Let’s see you boost the midrange at 500hz by 6db with your fingers, or make a Fender Twin Reverb sound like a Big Muff with your fingers. Those things are elements of *tone*.
I used one of your preset on my Helix. We don't sound the same..close but not the same.
If you give me a Fractal and a Helix, I would probably dial-in "my sound" and it probably will sound the same on both modelers...
Same thing could probably happen with an Overdrive, delay and reverb pedal into an amp mic'ed up with a 57 :)
My modeler has literally a million variables. I hardy have 2 programs that sound the same.
Anyone who says that is a moron. There are billions of permutations of tone settings on a modeller. On the contrary anyone who plays a real amp with every knob dimed will sound the same.
tube amps will be expensive products just for rich collectors.
I like the creator who said that but it was not a good take. I get his thought process, but when you really break down the argument, it falls flat. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, though.
I bet it’s coming from guys with Marshall Plexis and Les Pauls….pot calling the kettle black!
I think if you're looking for a complaint, any one will suffice... Same people that say they're worried about all the tones sounding the same will then turn around and say tone is in the fingers without batting an eye... Even more ironic, people chasing famous guitar player tone trying to sound exactly like them wow complaining about that homogenization you're talking about. Maybe I will buy a deluxe reverb so I can sound unique.
Stirr your tea clockwise and not anti...
YOU ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT . running out of thumbnails ?
As the worst guitar player here, I can attest that this isnt true. I have three guitars, all different makes and models. Take the same FM3 preset and every guitar sounds slightly different. There are other presets where each guitar sounds completely different. Add to that the individualism and style of the person playing and we dont make the same sound. We never will.
We already know who it is lol Rhett 👀
Generally, in the you tube videos they do all sound the same - good but mostly the same. No real variety in guitar sounds like the old days where every player had their own unique sound... pretty much. I love digital modelling because its a good sound and convenient but I'm keeping my tube amp for those gigs where it's appreciated.
Guitars sounds guitar to the listener
Don't mean this as an insult John but to my ears your tone sounds the same across all the different guitars you play. It's a lovely tone don't get me wrong but the same
I sound like me no matter what I play through.