Definitely, vertical investment is smart, but the fun factor of having a varied roster of characters with multiple different playstyles in a game with such an addicting, fun gameplay speaks higher to me. Of course, I still need to be smart when pulling, but I definitely favor new characters that will keep me hooked to the game, making it feel fresh.
The value of vertical investment is tied to the difficulty of the endgame content. Shiyu Defense doesn't need any mindscapes or signature weapons and likely never will. Until that changes, I'm getting every new character possible to keep the game fresh.
100% agree in having quality agents over quantity. I really want Caesar's M1, not for the 15% all element pen bonus, but entering battle with the shield is immensely valuable so you don't have to waste the first 30 seconds building up enough energy to apply the shield. The shield also provides the 1,000 ATK bonus so you can come in, quick assist then have the top tier damage output with un-interrupted combos.
i got her M1 by chance in a single 10 pull and it is so rotted whenever i accidentally play a trial Ceaser cause i got so accustomed to her shield being automatic, its that useful
I personally just love having different agents, getting to meet them in game and trying out new play styles. If there's a character I love the design of, if I pull a single copy and build it the best I can, they will be sufficient for clearing engame content for the foreseeable future. If I ever find myself in need of a power boost, I can get it on a rerun. This isn't a complaint of course, the video is very useful. Also congrats on 3k!
@@ballistic_beanz Thanks a ton, and thanks for watching! 😁 I agree, i wanted this to be more informative than anything. It all depends on how players like playing the game.
Of course, every time. If you have M2 Qingyi w sig, it's like having 2 mindscapes on every attacker + Jane, and Yanagi. You need 2 great teams in Zenless and a DPS from each element, and boom, nothing can stop you
honestly, for me I try and get as much power as I can horizontally until I have full coverage (I don't have an ice team yet so miyabi is the last unit I'm pulling for a while), and then I focus on vertical power, mindscapes, W engines, etc
@@MaouProductions yeah this is a good year one strategy then upgrade them on year 2+ when they run banners you don’t like. It’s also good to have a breather from constantly leveling up new agents.
You won't even worry about pulling for dupes when they'll keep releasing more interesting characters on the same banner time as popular reruns for profits.
I've always said that everyone should get a S-rank DPS of each element as a priority, but one thing that has become extremely apparent is that when things such as Ice weakness roll back around I regret not having Ellens Signature W-engine because when I started the game people told me the engine banner was a trap. Since then I have still stuck to aiming for elemental diversity but I also try to always have enough poly for the agent AND the Weapon, which unfortunately means I can end up skipping 3ish banners for one agent if I get unlucky with the 50/50 and 75/25
I agree to an extent. For my DPS Agents, I feel like having their respective Engine isn't up for debate. However, Agents that are Stunners or play more of a supportive role can easily get by with using Weapons that aren't their Sig. It just makes more sense to me to grab their Sigs anyway since you don't have to think while using them. Thanks for watching by the way!
Aww man that sucks, I say if you really love a character, go for their engine but only if you have the resources and really thought it through. I started playing cause of Ellen. I already decided to get her to M2 when she comes back.
@@CombatPandaZenlessZoneZero Ellen’s w-engine is probably the best one. With the crit rate stat and 20% bonus crit & puffer electro 2-piece you can easily get 100% crit rate in combat.
I’ve always been a proponent of pulling for those I like and investing heavily in my favorites once I’ve obtained them in Gacha games. I’ve only been playing ZZZ for over a month but once I get my two teams I want to use, I’m literally going to vertical invest and that’s it. Until another really cool character that I like and could use comes along. Also because in ZZZ you can clear content with pretty much any team so “meta” teams don’t really matter to me as long as I have good coverage typing for gameplay. A lot of people try to collect everything but only use a small handful of their units anyways.
I understand the point quite well, for example in my case I plan to throw everything at miyabi 🗿, if I have something left over and they do rerun zhu yuan or ellen the same, but I plan to completely skip idols
I'm personally someone who just goes for new characters, only really bothering with stuff like mindscapes and w-engines for characters I really like a lot. I think having a large cast even at M0 just makes it more enjoyable to me
Oh i super agree about Mindscapes. The one thing i love what they did in HZ was if you befriend a character to a point you can unlock one of their mindscapes to make your character stronger. When i was able to play a M2 Ellen it felt like an absolute game changer and since i already love her i wouldnt mind rolling more copies for her.
I also like to add that charm pulling for this game is viable when you really like certain agent(s) despite they will not be on the (collectives) T0 ; T0.5 or risk falling off. Because this game are not strictly design to achieves most reward with whaling capacity. Just your minimum effort to raise a characters, and affordable skills to play them well is enough. This game is unlike many others that have their mechanics limited by its design that you must take hit or manually avoid the danger without any built-in defensive system, you either shielded up or use particular type of resources with 5 to 7+ seconds cd that can mean life and death when you make wrong decision. This game rewarded your skills. Perfect dodge and parried a lot can get you everywhere. The core design of this game is still a lighthearted gacha game that serve to give you fun, casual experiences more than pushing your very soul like a 30th+ floors of Battle Tower. The 'Challenge' part of this game is just an icing on the cake to make flavor. And most of them also a 1-timer rewards, once exhausted, it'll becomes just another fun park for you to walk around when you feels like it. I still have a firm believe that Fun and Flavor is the biggest part of this game. You don't need top tier agents to get all the potential important rewards from most prominent contents like Shiyu or High difficult Hollow Zero content. Just a well raised agents of your choice is good enough. There's no need to break a single sweat over clear time of 2 min or 1.52 min or 42 seconds. So long as you under 5 min timer, you gonna get that S rating rewards, ezpz. You can even bypass the resistance table if you feels confidence. Best you need is for them to not resisted your best pick. Instead of fell head over heel to every potential top tier meta but feel miserable to play, despite they yield you a good result. It's just better to focus on having fun from first to last second of your gameplay and see what you can improves on your best waifu;husbando at hand. Cases are, if you absolutely decked out everything they had to offer, be it DD, W, important skills, or even mindscapes, the chance that you'll utter failed or lack behind to reward threshold is very slim, even when go against mob that resisted the agent's attribute. Play the game as yourself, not what the collectives of internet decided for you. Your account, your game.
I pretty much like, had most A ranks m6 (except for Seth which was m1 and piper at m4), Plus alot of limited banners I pulled result lost 50 50 but hey atleast I maxed out my A ranks, but as the result, I had like 5 teams because of it, surprisingly fun to build teams since I also got everyones W engines. I didnt really need to adjust much primarily the fact since the S ranks on standard are still good either way (Grace and S11 is fun for me atleast). Only limited i got is Qingyi with her engine and burnice but no engine (didnt had much left). But yea, overall I just pull for the sake of trying characters out and maybe have fun building around them. I don't really see the meta as long you know how to clear in such conditions.
Same idea, I started close to the end of Caesar's banner but I held my pulls and saved all for Burnice's banner. Caesar's banner have Piper and Anton, even if Caesar is OP, her banner's element coverage and agent roles are really bad for a new player. While Burnice's banner have 2 best supports, Lucy and Nicole. While Burnice also enables a second element compared to my Billy/Anby/Nicole team. Burnice banner came and I pulled M0W1 Burnice, M6W5 Lucy & M6W5 Nicole. My account couldn't be any more solid. Now I pulled Yanagi's banner just for Billy, was unlucky and only gotten M3 Billy, then I stopped shy before hitting the pity, will save the S rank for a better banner. I cleared all Shiyu S rank, even reaching Floor 25 Endless Tower. Doable without Caesar but it's a challenge. Meanwhile on Hoyolab, I don't understand how some players with Jane+Caesar+Qingyi+Burnice can only A rank Shiyu Critical 7.
My approach changes depending on the state I'm in. Since I just started this, I've put a lot more priority into 2 high value teams. Currently waiting for Miyabi to hopefully finish up a second team but sadly that's like months away. After I got 2 teams I'll prolly strategically skip banners as needed when I see a unit coming that catches my eye or would help me build another high value team.
I started this game in late September to get all trophies, now I’ve been hooked ever since, but probably just gonna save for characters I like, and if I really like there gameplay, I’ll go for there signature weapon
That is great advice for me. So far, I've only pulled Jane, cause I liked her design and gameplay, and Caesar, because of her utility, although I also like her overall, and I also planing on pulling Miyabi cause I like her. What I've noticed with my account is that there weren't many new characters that hooked me to the point I wanted to pull them and build a wide collection, while some standard characters are my current favorites, even better because I got the W-Engines of all the S-ranks I have and want from the standard banner. Another thing, I'm at a very slow pace with my account, I've been playing since the second half of 1.0, but only now am I putting characters at level 50/60 and farming to max them, so I'm not even paying attention to endgame content for now and just enjoying the game.
The endgame is pretty free and casual. I started on the last day of Caesar and beat the current and last 2 Shiyus on lv50 characters. There is simply no need to worry over characters dupes or signature weapons. Hoyo never makes their games for hardcore players.
Every team has importance, when 1 Character dies, the game basically ends Then there's Anby The Anchor of the Groups she's in, if she is still Surviving, The Game Has Just Got More Interesting! XD
I got early luck on Zhu Yuan and her W-engine. Won Jane Doe and M1 Rina back to back and have been saving for Lighter ever since. I currently have 445 wishes saved for Lighter. So far can clear shiyu, hollow and manage to clear 15 floors of tower (only for the polychromes). I play zzz to have fun and not to chase meta. So glad Zhu Yuan and Jane team so far can carry me through all end game content.
I forgot to add and change something that anby and soldier 11 are jack raiden's father Jetstream sam is soldier 11's fire teacher Jack teaches anby electric attack
I'm a bit of both, really--after I already obtained Yanagi and her W-Engine, I kept pulling to max out my Anby until I got her to M6. Right now, I have a ton of Polys saved for Miyabi and I plan on going broke getting her and her weapon. Any other agents I get during her banner will be gravy.
2:09 Erm actually it 31 bullet because the at the start of the stun window you have nine you do the standard M0 combo but skipping the ult then shoot 4 time ult for 12 shots so it 9+6+4+3+9
I approach pulling overall in this game differently to everyone I think, but if I pull for someone then I only contemplate pulling the weapon for a won 50/50 or if I have a guarantee, since it's saved polys at that point to not have to commit to double hard pity for just the character, and as much as the mindscape bonuses seem more practical in combat use, I like the funny glow effects of the signature weapons a lot, even if small for a lot of agents. I am considering pulling some mindscapes on reruns later down the line after I round out my roster, but if I have a lot of polys saved I may consider pulling a mindscape for fresh agents as well.
I did something very similar to you but on qingyi's banner instead of Jane's, I saved and pulled and got one qingyi, M6 Corin, with S5 of Corin's engine. Unfortunately didn't get qingyi's engine but i did get Lycaon's which is her second best in slot so it is what it is. But yeah I mainly pulled on qingyi's banner for Corin.
i just started a week ago, pulled yanagi after 50/50 loss but i got full mindscapes on billy and anby, also pulled 4 s rank from standard banner in 130 pulls, which is pretty good i guess, missing bernice tho , maybe i should have started this game earlier, but people were not impressed by this game at the start was my opinion.
So moral of the story is that YOU CAN pull for vertical investment to keep your characters if you’re lucky or you can pull more characters for better buffs or more options. My issue though is if we get to the point where like in Star Rail you either pull copies or you pull the new dps because otherwise you can’t clear well. Your older characters become useless. E2 DHIL is even mediocre compared to new E0 dps. Even with M6 Anby why would you ever use her if you have Qingyi, Lighter, Lycaon, etc? Heck, Anomaly units don’t even need a stunner. The only thing I can think of is if you have elemental shield enemies you need units for, but then you likely needed to have pulled new units to slot her in a new team.
The real game changer for me is that you only need 3 characters, or two teams and you can do all end game with a little skill. It's fun, and theres no must pull yet
@@ivatfadhlu I have M1 Yanagi. With the three instances of auto parry instead of taking damage she is nearly unkillable. I used her to clear the tower up to floor 100.
So far, I’ve been pulling for every character. I was lucky, so I lost the 50/50 only once. The only limited character I don’t have is Burnice, which is unfortunate, but it was going to happen someday. I also have Ellen’s and Qingyi’s w-engines, and they are neat.
Hey! Newer player here (played zzz for 3 weeks) what did you mean by 75/25? I thought if you lost the 50/50 you got the banner guaranteed? I pulled for yanagi believing that was the case a got her fortunately. I also got m6 anby while going through the pulls and holy shit does her m6 make her feel completely different
Hey sorry for the confusion! When i talked about the 75/25, i was talking about Jane Doe’s Engine Banner. The Agent & W-Engine Banners have to different percent chances when you get an S-Rank
I got Jane, Burnice and Yanagi, dont care about any other limited char so im settled for now. Didnt like lighter and miyabi playstyle so i just have to wait until someone caughts my eyes. I do like leaks tho so that hypes me up in the meantime.
Advice for F2P: ignore this, Hoyo games content is always made for casual gamers with less effort, so you dont need to upgrade an older character if you like the new toy better. This vid advice is a trap ever since Genshin. Only upgrade a character if you really want it, not because others think you need it.
I do agree either way is good. My goal is to at least M3 my Ellen during he rerun thats why I'm trying my best to skip most banners and only get characters that have a ton of coverage best example would be Ceasar and if I find that character's playstyle is a fit for me.
As a mostly free-to-play player I've skipped two banners so far, and haven't had excess resources to pull additional copies or w-engines. I'll probably skip on Lighter, not sure about Miyabi as of yet. Of the M1's I regret not going for is Zhu Yuan, but I might have missed Qingyi, so I didn't chance it.
I like to pull on new character banners but once I get the character I immediately start saving for the next one. Sometimes I'll guarantee the next character if I can. if i need a w-engines i'll use a ftp one.
I’ve been finding that going more vertical has helped prevent burnout, there’s less of a sense of always being behind than with a purely horizontal account
there needs to be more talk about W engines because I feel they are the one chance older units have at "buffs". not quite an example since the game is very young still, but I main Corin and I've seen many guides recommend Steel Cushion (Nekomata's W Engine) as her best in slot, and looking at the stats is makes a lot of sense, the only argument I can make for Housekeeper is that it being an A-rank engine, it's relatively easier to find copies for. this is something that happens a lot with the A ranks of the first version of the game. I don't know all the instances, but for example, Anby seems to prefer Steam Oven over her signature, Most attack units seem to switch to Soldier's W-engine when they have the chance, and I've seen extremely compelling arguments for Nicole using Lucy's engine, because her own signature's buff last only 2 seconds, so it only works for very frontloaded single time burst attackers that she quick assists to (you can get MAYBE 2 shells with Zhu Yuan if youre lucky)
i got lucky and didn’t lose a 50/50 until ceasar then got my guaranteed burnice on top of zhu, ellen, and qingyi so now i’m just waiting to vertically invest in them. m2 ellen would be nice 😊
I try and pull every banner. Though i planned to skip Yanagi i ended up getting her in 20 pulls. like my luck. I also tried to pull for the engine, tho i didn't get one i did get my other goal of finishing billies engine who I primarily main. Ill be trying to pull for lighter and miyabi. Miyabi can take my wallet if needed.
So far, i've at least dipped my toes in almost every banner except for Ellen. I full sent for Zhu Yuan/Quingyi, and managed to snag Jane super early, but had to set my sights on c6 Piper/Lucy for Caesar/Burnice banners. I ended up losing on Burnice's weapon banner after pulling her. then, I lost the 50/50 for Yanagi back to back. So now I'm in full conservation mode again. I'm just doing weekly mat standard pulls until Miyabi's release so I can guarantee at least one copy of her and her sig. (Sorry Lighter o7, but somewhere along the way I've picked up four copies of Lycoan. So I'mma have to skip lmao)
I'd say Anby's W-Engine was the worst example you could pick. It indeed synergize with her, but it prioritizes boosting her damage over daze... and that her damn job! Personally, I gave it to Caesar since I had no pulls for her W-Engine and having impact on her is more important than anything else. Pick literally any other stunner W-Engine and it'll do a better job in Anby's hands.
i just see miyabi when i start playing it was second part of 1.0 patch and when i see miyabi with her opening cutscene i loved her and that's why i pull for ceasar and yanagi with 300 pulls for miyabi for her and her signature, to make the best team for my waifu. what next? idk but i will be fulfilled since i have miyabi (aka. almost female vergil)
I honestly don't care about which banner I'm going to pull because I mostly play Billy, even though he's not the best character in the game, but to me he is the most fun. But I pull a banner or two if I feel that character is fun to play. Note: Billy has two guns so he got double the accuracy
Brimstone is better than Zhu Yuan signature. Anby signature is worse than Steam Oven. It is even worse than Vortex Arrow, a blue engine. It’s strange to justify pulling Jane over Qing Yi as vertical investment. Pulling a tailor-made support for Zhu Yuan is vertical investment. Pulling Jane, a completely different team style, is horizontal investment. Investing vertically is a hard sell when Caesar, Yanagi, Burnice came consecutively and all were insanely valuable. Burnice does more for Yanagi than her signature. Caesar is the most broken character in the game. And Yanagi outstrips Grace/Anton by miles while looking to also be super synergistic with Miyabi, who has few other options. Not to mention Jane’s insanely high damage and comfort. You are right that vertical investment is good and has a place though. IMO you should get 3 dps, fire/phys, ice/ether, and electric, and also get caesar because she’s broken. Then you can vertically invest. Brute forcing resistance is horrible, especially for anomaly units since it affects buildup. However, the thing that’s been left out is that this game is EASY. Billy Anby Nicole + Lucy Piper can clear Shiyu. Mindscapes and Engines limit your ability to collect characters and pursue new gameplay styles, while trivializing the already easy game. Free to plays can afford 1.33 50/50s a patch. BP and Membership buyers can almost afford a guarantee per patch. Without swiping, you are seveeeerely limited in what can pull, and mindscapes and sigs exacerbate the problem.
Thanks for your insight, and I definitely agree about some points you made in your comment. I do agree that going for Jane and not Qingyi is horizontally investing, but i think from what I got out of her Banner was a lot more valueable to me. I also don’t have Steamed Oven on my account, so Anby’s Signature looked might fine to me during Patch 1.1. Thanks for watching! 😁
@@ddd8828 I lost the Zhu Yuan 75/25 & got Brimstone. I wanted to pick up her signature on the rerun but if Brimstone is better I’ll skip it and go for Miyabi’s M1 instead.
@@flossinonyou Steam Oven is craftable! I agree that given the choice between Jane and Qing Yi, Jane is the better investment, but I think that's an argument for horizontal investment (Jane is a strong physical DPS who can deal with phys/fire weak, ice/ether resistant content) rather than an argument for vertical investment (I didn't pull Jane banner for Jane, I pulled it because Anby M6R5 is good for Zhu Yuan).
@@dankwolf442 She's probably going to be ultra cope without Burnice or Yanagi. If you MUST vertically invest, be mindful that Miyabi is heavily reliant on having her signature or Roaring Ride (there is not a good f2p option that gives Anomaly Mastery), so I would def get signature before M1.
For once I disagree. ZZZ is different to other Hoyo games as it is fundamental to activate the character's additional ability. This makes it so you either get a lot of characters or at least stay up-to-date with leaks & be very careful with your pulls, which is very time consuming for casual players. As of patch 1.3, horizontal investment seems to be the better move. Also always getting the sig. engine, even if it takes 150 pulls as it did for me on Qingyi's wengine banner (😭)
I can agree with your points. Like i said, the average player will benefit more from Agents, but I personally like investing more into Agents I currently have/play.
If you dont have her sig you might not using her forever so what is the point pulling her. Same goes for every main dps character (support is fine dont need high investment)
I don’t think i’d advise it, because I’m almost certain Hoyo will overtune Miyabi. However, if someone wants to invest in Ellen and don’t have any interest in Miyabi? (not cope i’ve seen it) then i would advise it. Just like I already say, players will also have more fun with the Agents they enjoy the most. Ellen won’t be as strong is Miyabi, but she still functions great!
small nitpick, 4:33 you talking about "ZZZ is going to release more specialized 5-star weapons" BUT you used acheron's lightcone as a "comparison" 😂 Along the Passing Shore is in contention for the MOST VERSATILE LIMITED LIGHTCONE in the entire game. It is Welt's best lightcone, and it's going to be REALLY GOOD on any nihility crit scaling character HSR releases
I find this video to be incredibly confusing, because..... Limited S-Ranks don't HAVE Mindscapes....?? Standard-S and A-Ranks do so they can catch up, but if S-Ranks had them that would be horribly frustrating to pull for, a blatant cash-grab that everyone would hate, and altogether pointless since they don't NEED to be stronger, and they're still going to be powercrept like an A-Rank anyways. So they don't exist................. they don't exist.................THEY DON'T EXIST...
I already disagree, the only dps assault agents I have is corin and billy, I need Nekomata or a limited agent in order to actually do good damage. It all depends on your situation
I'm not going to bother to vertically invest in these early characters. characters like jane and ellen for instance are designed to have very high floors with a low ceiling. this happened with Genshin and HSR. in about 4-6 months M0 characters will do more than a M2 ellen. typically if I do vertically invest in a character its in a flexible support so it can affect a lot of different characters. I might do it for caesar but no one else so far seems worthy of mind scapes.
lmao imagine setiously investing in anby and justifyiny skipping qingyi for her. no, dont get me wrong, Im for vertical investment myself, but anby is terrible.
Just say u want all the new characters for yourself
smh FINE LET ME PULL ON EVERY BANNER
Ahahahahaha, really wholesome comment bro...
Pin of Shame 💀
Definitely, vertical investment is smart, but the fun factor of having a varied roster of characters with multiple different playstyles in a game with such an addicting, fun gameplay speaks higher to me. Of course, I still need to be smart when pulling, but I definitely favor new characters that will keep me hooked to the game, making it feel fresh.
good point, you should definitely have fun with the game over everything else!
exactly i always say to myself fuck meta pull what you want
The value of vertical investment is tied to the difficulty of the endgame content. Shiyu Defense doesn't need any mindscapes or signature weapons and likely never will. Until that changes, I'm getting every new character possible to keep the game fresh.
100% agree in having quality agents over quantity. I really want Caesar's M1, not for the 15% all element pen bonus, but entering battle with the shield is immensely valuable so you don't have to waste the first 30 seconds building up enough energy to apply the shield. The shield also provides the 1,000 ATK bonus so you can come in, quick assist then have the top tier damage output with un-interrupted combos.
I didn’t even think about the initial shield, but you’re right! Having even less field time on her is so beneficial.
i got her M1 by chance in a single 10 pull and it is so rotted whenever i accidentally play a trial Ceaser cause i got so accustomed to her shield being automatic, its that useful
I personally just love having different agents, getting to meet them in game and trying out new play styles. If there's a character I love the design of, if I pull a single copy and build it the best I can, they will be sufficient for clearing engame content for the foreseeable future. If I ever find myself in need of a power boost, I can get it on a rerun. This isn't a complaint of course, the video is very useful. Also congrats on 3k!
@@ballistic_beanz Thanks a ton, and thanks for watching! 😁 I agree, i wanted this to be more informative than anything. It all depends on how players like playing the game.
a man and a dream... m6 s11 and m6 signature 🔥👀
One day i’ll make that dream happen…
Of course, every time. If you have M2 Qingyi w sig, it's like having 2 mindscapes on every attacker + Jane, and Yanagi. You need 2 great teams in Zenless and a DPS from each element, and boom, nothing can stop you
honestly, for me I try and get as much power as I can horizontally until I have full coverage (I don't have an ice team yet so miyabi is the last unit I'm pulling for a while), and then I focus on vertical power, mindscapes, W engines, etc
@@MaouProductions yeah this is a good year one strategy then upgrade them on year 2+ when they run banners you don’t like. It’s also good to have a breather from constantly leveling up new agents.
You won't even worry about pulling for dupes when they'll keep releasing more interesting characters on the same banner time as popular reruns for profits.
5:06 the real question is how many Ben Bigger you pulled
only two lol
I've always said that everyone should get a S-rank DPS of each element as a priority, but one thing that has become extremely apparent is that when things such as Ice weakness roll back around I regret not having Ellens Signature W-engine because when I started the game people told me the engine banner was a trap. Since then I have still stuck to aiming for elemental diversity but I also try to always have enough poly for the agent AND the Weapon, which unfortunately means I can end up skipping 3ish banners for one agent if I get unlucky with the 50/50 and 75/25
I agree to an extent. For my DPS Agents, I feel like having their respective Engine isn't up for debate. However, Agents that are Stunners or play more of a supportive role can easily get by with using Weapons that aren't their Sig.
It just makes more sense to me to grab their Sigs anyway since you don't have to think while using them. Thanks for watching by the way!
Aww man that sucks, I say if you really love a character, go for their engine but only if you have the resources and really thought it through.
I started playing cause of Ellen. I already decided to get her to M2 when she comes back.
@@CombatPandaZenlessZoneZero Ellen’s w-engine is probably the best one. With the crit rate stat and 20% bonus crit & puffer electro 2-piece you can easily get 100% crit rate in combat.
I would definitely pull for mindscapes for Zhu Yuan...
If her banner ever comes back
She’ll be back in one or two patches trust
I’ve always been a proponent of pulling for those I like and investing heavily in my favorites once I’ve obtained them in Gacha games. I’ve only been playing ZZZ for over a month but once I get my two teams I want to use, I’m literally going to vertical invest and that’s it. Until another really cool character that I like and could use comes along.
Also because in ZZZ you can clear content with pretty much any team so “meta” teams don’t really matter to me as long as I have good coverage typing for gameplay. A lot of people try to collect everything but only use a small handful of their units anyways.
I understand the point quite well, for example in my case I plan to throw everything at miyabi 🗿, if I have something left over and they do rerun zhu yuan or ellen the same, but I plan to completely skip idols
Congrats on 3k 🎉
Thank you so much! 😁
I'm personally someone who just goes for new characters, only really bothering with stuff like mindscapes and w-engines for characters I really like a lot. I think having a large cast even at M0 just makes it more enjoyable to me
Oh i super agree about Mindscapes. The one thing i love what they did in HZ was if you befriend a character to a point you can unlock one of their mindscapes to make your character stronger. When i was able to play a M2 Ellen it felt like an absolute game changer and since i already love her i wouldnt mind rolling more copies for her.
I also like to add that charm pulling for this game is viable when you really like certain agent(s) despite they will not be on the (collectives) T0 ; T0.5 or risk falling off. Because this game are not strictly design to achieves most reward with whaling capacity. Just your minimum effort to raise a characters, and affordable skills to play them well is enough.
This game is unlike many others that have their mechanics limited by its design that you must take hit or manually avoid the danger without any built-in defensive system, you either shielded up or use particular type of resources with 5 to 7+ seconds cd that can mean life and death when you make wrong decision.
This game rewarded your skills. Perfect dodge and parried a lot can get you everywhere. The core design of this game is still a lighthearted gacha game that serve to give you fun, casual experiences more than pushing your very soul like a 30th+ floors of Battle Tower. The 'Challenge' part of this game is just an icing on the cake to make flavor. And most of them also a 1-timer rewards, once exhausted, it'll becomes just another fun park for you to walk around when you feels like it.
I still have a firm believe that Fun and Flavor is the biggest part of this game. You don't need top tier agents to get all the potential important rewards from most prominent contents like Shiyu or High difficult Hollow Zero content. Just a well raised agents of your choice is good enough. There's no need to break a single sweat over clear time of 2 min or 1.52 min or 42 seconds. So long as you under 5 min timer, you gonna get that S rating rewards, ezpz. You can even bypass the resistance table if you feels confidence. Best you need is for them to not resisted your best pick.
Instead of fell head over heel to every potential top tier meta but feel miserable to play, despite they yield you a good result. It's just better to focus on having fun from first to last second of your gameplay and see what you can improves on your best waifu;husbando at hand. Cases are, if you absolutely decked out everything they had to offer, be it DD, W, important skills, or even mindscapes, the chance that you'll utter failed or lack behind to reward threshold is very slim, even when go against mob that resisted the agent's attribute.
Play the game as yourself, not what the collectives of internet decided for you. Your account, your game.
I pretty much like, had most A ranks m6 (except for Seth which was m1 and piper at m4), Plus alot of limited banners I pulled result lost 50 50 but hey atleast I maxed out my A ranks, but as the result, I had like 5 teams because of it, surprisingly fun to build teams since I also got everyones W engines. I didnt really need to adjust much primarily the fact since the S ranks on standard are still good either way (Grace and S11 is fun for me atleast). Only limited i got is Qingyi with her engine and burnice but no engine (didnt had much left). But yea, overall I just pull for the sake of trying characters out and maybe have fun building around them. I don't really see the meta as long you know how to clear in such conditions.
Same idea, I started close to the end of Caesar's banner but I held my pulls and saved all for Burnice's banner.
Caesar's banner have Piper and Anton, even if Caesar is OP, her banner's element coverage and agent roles are really bad for a new player.
While Burnice's banner have 2 best supports, Lucy and Nicole. While Burnice also enables a second element compared to my Billy/Anby/Nicole team.
Burnice banner came and I pulled M0W1 Burnice, M6W5 Lucy & M6W5 Nicole. My account couldn't be any more solid.
Now I pulled Yanagi's banner just for Billy, was unlucky and only gotten M3 Billy, then I stopped shy before hitting the pity, will save the S rank for a better banner.
I cleared all Shiyu S rank, even reaching Floor 25 Endless Tower. Doable without Caesar but it's a challenge.
Meanwhile on Hoyolab, I don't understand how some players with Jane+Caesar+Qingyi+Burnice can only A rank Shiyu Critical 7.
I'm a builder. Everyone i have is over 50. And the main ones i play are 60. Most are m6 with fat sigs.
My approach changes depending on the state I'm in. Since I just started this, I've put a lot more priority into 2 high value teams. Currently waiting for Miyabi to hopefully finish up a second team but sadly that's like months away. After I got 2 teams I'll prolly strategically skip banners as needed when I see a unit coming that catches my eye or would help me build another high value team.
@@PyroTorch69 Definitely get Miyabi and her W-engine. Her banner is in about 7 weeks 😀
I started this game in late September to get all trophies, now I’ve been hooked ever since, but probably just gonna save for characters I like, and if I really like there gameplay, I’ll go for there signature weapon
That is great advice for me. So far, I've only pulled Jane, cause I liked her design and gameplay, and Caesar, because of her utility, although I also like her overall, and I also planing on pulling Miyabi cause I like her. What I've noticed with my account is that there weren't many new characters that hooked me to the point I wanted to pull them and build a wide collection, while some standard characters are my current favorites, even better because I got the W-Engines of all the S-ranks I have and want from the standard banner.
Another thing, I'm at a very slow pace with my account, I've been playing since the second half of 1.0, but only now am I putting characters at level 50/60 and farming to max them, so I'm not even paying attention to endgame content for now and just enjoying the game.
The endgame is pretty free and casual. I started on the last day of Caesar and beat the current and last 2 Shiyus on lv50 characters.
There is simply no need to worry over characters dupes or signature weapons. Hoyo never makes their games for hardcore players.
Every team has importance, when 1 Character dies, the game basically ends
Then there's Anby
The Anchor of the Groups she's in, if she is still Surviving, The Game Has Just Got More Interesting! XD
She's a secret S-Rank when maxed out, for sure.
@hauntedvoyager8196 Are you talking about Soukaku with this as well?
She *SHREDS* When she gets her game set
@@themphantom9138 hell yeah--she's really good when built out.
I got early luck on Zhu Yuan and her W-engine. Won Jane Doe and M1 Rina back to back and have been saving for Lighter ever since. I currently have 445 wishes saved for Lighter. So far can clear shiyu, hollow and manage to clear 15 floors of tower (only for the polychromes). I play zzz to have fun and not to chase meta. So glad Zhu Yuan and Jane team so far can carry me through all end game content.
I forgot to add and change something that anby and soldier 11 are jack raiden's father
Jetstream sam is soldier 11's fire teacher
Jack teaches anby electric attack
3:02 Erm actually thats her additional ability not the core passive her core passives revolves around her special and full attack string.
Erm actually I never said her Core Passive, I said Core Skill. Her Additional Ability is within her Core Skill. Thanks for watching!
I'm a bit of both, really--after I already obtained Yanagi and her W-Engine, I kept pulling to max out my Anby until I got her to M6. Right now, I have a ton of Polys saved for Miyabi and I plan on going broke getting her and her weapon. Any other agents I get during her banner will be gravy.
I’m the same way, I like to max out some of my favorite Agents, but I'm open to pulling fresh, new one that come around.
2:09 Erm actually it 31 bullet because the at the start of the stun window you have nine you do the standard M0 combo but skipping the ult then shoot 4 time ult for 12 shots so it 9+6+4+3+9
Eventually I'd definitely do some vertical investment in ZZZ, need to make more teams viable first.
I approach pulling overall in this game differently to everyone I think, but if I pull for someone then I only contemplate pulling the weapon for a won 50/50 or if I have a guarantee, since it's saved polys at that point to not have to commit to double hard pity for just the character, and as much as the mindscape bonuses seem more practical in combat use, I like the funny glow effects of the signature weapons a lot, even if small for a lot of agents. I am considering pulling some mindscapes on reruns later down the line after I round out my roster, but if I have a lot of polys saved I may consider pulling a mindscape for fresh agents as well.
I’m the same way. I really value Sig Weapons, especially for my S-Rank Agents. They don’t feel complete to me without them.
I did something very similar to you but on qingyi's banner instead of Jane's, I saved and pulled and got one qingyi, M6 Corin, with S5 of Corin's engine. Unfortunately didn't get qingyi's engine but i did get Lycaon's which is her second best in slot so it is what it is. But yeah I mainly pulled on qingyi's banner for Corin.
i just started a week ago, pulled yanagi after 50/50 loss but i got full mindscapes on billy and anby, also pulled 4 s rank from standard banner in 130 pulls, which is pretty good i guess, missing bernice tho , maybe i should have started this game earlier, but people were not impressed by this game at the start was my opinion.
So moral of the story is that YOU CAN pull for vertical investment to keep your characters if you’re lucky or you can pull more characters for better buffs or more options.
My issue though is if we get to the point where like in Star Rail you either pull copies or you pull the new dps because otherwise you can’t clear well. Your older characters become useless. E2 DHIL is even mediocre compared to new E0 dps.
Even with M6 Anby why would you ever use her if you have Qingyi, Lighter, Lycaon, etc? Heck, Anomaly units don’t even need a stunner. The only thing I can think of is if you have elemental shield enemies you need units for, but then you likely needed to have pulled new units to slot her in a new team.
All depends, you're usually fine as long as you don't care about low cycle clears. 10 is usually enough you definitely gotta pull supports
The real game changer for me is that you only need 3 characters, or two teams and you can do all end game with a little skill.
It's fun, and theres no must pull yet
Now i think pull for yanagi M1 is worth, than saving for miyabi. But still we need to prepare new agents to avoid the power creep effects.
@@ivatfadhlu I have M1 Yanagi. With the three instances of auto parry instead of taking damage she is nearly unkillable. I used her to clear the tower up to floor 100.
So far, I’ve been pulling for every character. I was lucky, so I lost the 50/50 only once. The only limited character I don’t have is Burnice, which is unfortunate, but it was going to happen someday. I also have Ellen’s and Qingyi’s w-engines, and they are neat.
5:05 how are you so luck to win a 50/50 plus and 75/25 lady luck would never
I made two acc for Yanagi.
Ofc, SHE NEVER SHOWED
Hey! Newer player here (played zzz for 3 weeks) what did you mean by 75/25? I thought if you lost the 50/50 you got the banner guaranteed? I pulled for yanagi believing that was the case a got her fortunately. I also got m6 anby while going through the pulls and holy shit does her m6 make her feel completely different
Hey sorry for the confusion! When i talked about the 75/25, i was talking about Jane Doe’s Engine Banner. The Agent & W-Engine Banners have to different percent chances when you get an S-Rank
I got Jane, Burnice and Yanagi, dont care about any other limited char so im settled for now. Didnt like lighter and miyabi playstyle so i just have to wait until someone caughts my eyes. I do like leaks tho so that hypes me up in the meantime.
M0 is powerful enough for now. I prefer to have a diverse rooster so I always have a team adequate to the situation.
Advice for F2P: ignore this, Hoyo games content is always made for casual gamers with less effort, so you dont need to upgrade an older character if you like the new toy better.
This vid advice is a trap ever since Genshin. Only upgrade a character if you really want it, not because others think you need it.
keep hating buddy.
@@_knivesz He's not hating tho, just facts.
These games are not hard, just get who you want
I do agree either way is good. My goal is to at least M3 my Ellen during he rerun thats why I'm trying my best to skip most banners and only get characters that have a ton of coverage best example would be Ceasar and if I find that character's playstyle is a fit for me.
As a mostly free-to-play player I've skipped two banners so far, and haven't had excess resources to pull additional copies or w-engines. I'll probably skip on Lighter, not sure about Miyabi as of yet. Of the M1's I regret not going for is Zhu Yuan, but I might have missed Qingyi, so I didn't chance it.
Only pull for sigs for characters that don’t have great alternatives like Caesar
I like to pull on new character banners but once I get the character I immediately start saving for the next one. Sometimes I'll guarantee the next character if I can. if i need a w-engines i'll use a ftp one.
I’ve been finding that going more vertical has helped prevent burnout, there’s less of a sense of always being behind than with a purely horizontal account
When it comes to Sigs and Mindscapes, I have most A ranks at M6, except for Soukaku and Seth.
And I own some signature W-Engines
as a f2p doing it yourway is the best
That's a solid good point
I pull for what I like to play
there needs to be more talk about W engines because I feel they are the one chance older units have at "buffs".
not quite an example since the game is very young still, but I main Corin and I've seen many guides recommend Steel Cushion (Nekomata's W Engine) as her best in slot, and looking at the stats is makes a lot of sense, the only argument I can make for Housekeeper is that it being an A-rank engine, it's relatively easier to find copies for.
this is something that happens a lot with the A ranks of the first version of the game. I don't know all the instances, but for example, Anby seems to prefer Steam Oven over her signature, Most attack units seem to switch to Soldier's W-engine when they have the chance, and I've seen extremely compelling arguments for Nicole using Lucy's engine, because her own signature's buff last only 2 seconds, so it only works for very frontloaded single time burst attackers that she quick assists to (you can get MAYBE 2 shells with Zhu Yuan if youre lucky)
i got lucky and didn’t lose a 50/50 until ceasar then got my guaranteed burnice on top of zhu, ellen, and qingyi so now i’m just waiting to vertically invest in them. m2 ellen would be nice 😊
I try and pull every banner. Though i planned to skip Yanagi i ended up getting her in 20 pulls. like my luck. I also tried to pull for the engine, tho i didn't get one i did get my other goal of finishing billies engine who I primarily main.
Ill be trying to pull for lighter and miyabi. Miyabi can take my wallet if needed.
So far, i've at least dipped my toes in almost every banner except for Ellen.
I full sent for Zhu Yuan/Quingyi, and managed to snag Jane super early, but had to set my sights on c6 Piper/Lucy for Caesar/Burnice banners.
I ended up losing on Burnice's weapon banner after pulling her.
then, I lost the 50/50 for Yanagi back to back. So now I'm in full conservation mode again.
I'm just doing weekly mat standard pulls until Miyabi's release so I can guarantee at least one copy of her and her sig.
(Sorry Lighter o7, but somewhere along the way I've picked up four copies of Lycoan. So I'mma have to skip lmao)
M6 Seth has carried me for those electric weak shiyu sectors, i implore everyone without a good shock dps to check his mindscapes out
I don’t see enough people giving his M6 credit. Dude is busted when you get him there.
"or you could just pull Yanagi" wait what's the title of this video?
I'd say Anby's W-Engine was the worst example you could pick. It indeed synergize with her, but it prioritizes boosting her damage over daze... and that her damn job!
Personally, I gave it to Caesar since I had no pulls for her W-Engine and having impact on her is more important than anything else. Pick literally any other stunner W-Engine and it'll do a better job in Anby's hands.
Great video! Great take.
Glad you liked it! 😊
i just see miyabi when i start playing it was second part of 1.0 patch and when i see miyabi with her opening cutscene i loved her and that's why i pull for ceasar and yanagi with 300 pulls for miyabi for her and her signature, to make the best team for my waifu. what next? idk but i will be fulfilled since i have miyabi (aka. almost female vergil)
I honestly don't care about which banner I'm going to pull because I mostly play Billy, even though he's not the best character in the game, but to me he is the most fun. But I pull a banner or two if I feel that character is fun to play. Note: Billy has two guns so he got double the accuracy
Brimstone is better than Zhu Yuan signature.
Anby signature is worse than Steam Oven. It is even worse than Vortex Arrow, a blue engine.
It’s strange to justify pulling Jane over Qing Yi as vertical investment. Pulling a tailor-made support for Zhu Yuan is vertical investment. Pulling Jane, a completely different team style, is horizontal investment.
Investing vertically is a hard sell when Caesar, Yanagi, Burnice came consecutively and all were insanely valuable. Burnice does more for Yanagi than her signature. Caesar is the most broken character in the game. And Yanagi outstrips Grace/Anton by miles while looking to also be super synergistic with Miyabi, who has few other options. Not to mention Jane’s insanely high damage and comfort.
You are right that vertical investment is good and has a place though. IMO you should get 3 dps, fire/phys, ice/ether, and electric, and also get caesar because she’s broken. Then you can vertically invest. Brute forcing resistance is horrible, especially for anomaly units since it affects buildup.
However, the thing that’s been left out is that this game is EASY. Billy Anby Nicole + Lucy Piper can clear Shiyu. Mindscapes and Engines limit your ability to collect characters and pursue new gameplay styles, while trivializing the already easy game.
Free to plays can afford 1.33 50/50s a patch. BP and Membership buyers can almost afford a guarantee per patch. Without swiping, you are seveeeerely limited in what can pull, and mindscapes and sigs exacerbate the problem.
Thanks for your insight, and I definitely agree about some points you made in your comment.
I do agree that going for Jane and not Qingyi is horizontally investing, but i think from what I got out of her Banner was a lot more valueable to me. I also don’t have Steamed Oven on my account, so Anby’s Signature looked might fine to me during Patch 1.1. Thanks for watching! 😁
@@ddd8828 I lost the Zhu Yuan 75/25 & got Brimstone. I wanted to pick up her signature on the rerun but if Brimstone is better I’ll skip it and go for Miyabi’s M1 instead.
@@flossinonyou Steam Oven is craftable!
I agree that given the choice between Jane and Qing Yi, Jane is the better investment, but I think that's an argument for horizontal investment (Jane is a strong physical DPS who can deal with phys/fire weak, ice/ether resistant content) rather than an argument for vertical investment (I didn't pull Jane banner for Jane, I pulled it because Anby M6R5 is good for Zhu Yuan).
@@dankwolf442 She's probably going to be ultra cope without Burnice or Yanagi. If you MUST vertically invest, be mindful that Miyabi is heavily reliant on having her signature or Roaring Ride (there is not a good f2p option that gives Anomaly Mastery), so I would def get signature before M1.
I do this awesome technique called every 160= i pull
LMAO
For once I disagree. ZZZ is different to other Hoyo games as it is fundamental to activate the character's additional ability. This makes it so you either get a lot of characters or at least stay up-to-date with leaks & be very careful with your pulls, which is very time consuming for casual players. As of patch 1.3, horizontal investment seems to be the better move. Also always getting the sig. engine, even if it takes 150 pulls as it did for me on Qingyi's wengine banner (😭)
I can agree with your points. Like i said, the average player will benefit more from Agents, but I personally like investing more into Agents I currently have/play.
need lighter
If reruns start in 1.4, would you advise someone who has m0 Ellen go for Ellen's M1/sig instead of getting Miyabi?
Never
If you dont have her sig you might not using her forever so what is the point pulling her. Same goes for every main dps character (support is fine dont need high investment)
I don’t think i’d advise it, because I’m almost certain Hoyo will overtune Miyabi. However, if someone wants to invest in Ellen and don’t have any interest in Miyabi? (not cope i’ve seen it) then i would advise it.
Just like I already say, players will also have more fun with the Agents they enjoy the most. Ellen won’t be as strong is Miyabi, but she still functions great!
@flossinonyou you activated my trap card good sir. ua-cam.com/video/XxbGLH3G5kE/v-deo.html&si=RL-lbJA1_TMdEw_q
I always skip 2 agents I'm not interested to get one guaranteed cuz I always lost 50/50 lol
you got zhu yuan cuz she's thick? that's the only reason I didn't pull for her she'd block my screen with allat so nah I decided to play normally
Zhu Yuan is dummy thick, there’s no way I was skipping that bakery
small nitpick, 4:33 you talking about "ZZZ is going to release more specialized 5-star weapons"
BUT you used acheron's lightcone as a "comparison" 😂
Along the Passing Shore is in contention for the MOST VERSATILE LIMITED LIGHTCONE in the entire game. It is Welt's best lightcone, and it's going to be REALLY GOOD on any nihility crit scaling character HSR releases
I find this video to be incredibly confusing, because..... Limited S-Ranks don't HAVE Mindscapes....??
Standard-S and A-Ranks do so they can catch up, but if S-Ranks had them that would be horribly frustrating to pull for, a blatant cash-grab that everyone would hate, and altogether pointless since they don't NEED to be stronger, and they're still going to be powercrept like an A-Rank anyways.
So they don't exist................. they don't exist.................THEY DON'T EXIST...
Gameplay > stats
i skip caesar banner for m6 lucy and m6 nicole then 3dayslater i got m1 burnice.
and make sure u want the Arank character too
I already disagree, the only dps assault agents I have is corin and billy, I need Nekomata or a limited agent in order to actually do good damage. It all depends on your situation
I have yanagi but not her engine i pulled for her engine but i Don't got it and i Don't wanna waste polychrome anymore because i want miyabi next
You tried to skip Caesar vro i am not trusting you
I'm not going to bother to vertically invest in these early characters. characters like jane and ellen for instance are designed to have very high floors with a low ceiling. this happened with Genshin and HSR. in about 4-6 months M0 characters will do more than a M2 ellen. typically if I do vertically invest in a character its in a flexible support so it can affect a lot of different characters. I might do it for caesar but no one else so far seems worthy of mind scapes.
lmao imagine setiously investing in anby and justifyiny skipping qingyi for her. no, dont get me wrong, Im for vertical investment myself, but anby is terrible.
just my opinion. We can agree to disagree on which is better
@@flossinonyoudon’t let some $120-180/yr sheeple talk down on you! good on you for planning A-rank M6s
anbys w-engine is terrible, wtf you cooking
Insane statements to farm engagement of people who know and trick people who don't.
HE'S COOKING 🔥
Metric tonne of cope.
or just a disagreement. Thanks for watching though!
🤖
this is so unrealistic