30K would be a reasonable price for a very fuel efficient, reliable, and rugged hybrid. Like a 1990s era Toyota where they somehow still run if you forget the engine oil
The issue is the normalization of absurd loans in order to give off the appearance of wealth. Funny how over the past few years I've gone from "wow I wonder what that person does to be able to afford that nice truck" to "wow that truck is hauling a massive amount of debt"
I bought my last car new. Even at 14% off MSRP (it had been on the lot 6 months) it was still a dumb move. That car has been paid off for over 5 years now and I have ZERO interest in replacing it with a newer user car, let alone another new car. It still runs like new, albeit with some dings and scratches from years of apartment parking. I'll drive new cars when I have cause to rent them on trips!
It's why most "affordable" sports cars fail. The manufacturer builds a car for a certain market. Dealerships get these "rare" cars and then mark them up to be completely unavailable to the target market. They don't sell. They get discontinued. Rinse and repeat. It's depressing.
then manufacturers kill the car off because "sales didnt meet expectations" And you gotta go did you ever even bother to see what the dealerships did to your "affordable sports car?" They knee-capped it more often then not. Sabotaging it buy cranking up the price to ridiculous levels like the new nissan Z was supposed to msrp in the 30k range dealerships get it and now its 70-100k. Like jesus christ you might as well buy a ferrari.
Why don't manufacturers just invest in vertically eliminating dealerships? Something akin to tesla's model (I don't like the company or the car, but the model still applies) or some proprietary Carvana model that brings cars to consumers with a return policy over x amount of days.
Depends on the GR Corolla. The Morizo Edition is probably worth that much to someone (wealthy, desperate, or both) because it's limited to just 200 units. The unlimited ones (e.g., Core) aren't worth any "market adjustment".
I love when you trade your car and claim it's "high milage" at like 100k. But when you look at a used car they are like "it's only 100k miles. Thats low for this year"
I had one dealership tell me my car was high miles at 75k and it would be "hard for them to sell". I don't remember what I said, but it was along the lines "well, doesn't sound like you guys are very good at selling cars". They didn't sell one to me that day.
for sure. if you have a 90's car with 100k miles that IS low mileage for the year. But 90k miles for a 2022 is extremely high mileage for the year. I saw that and went holy crap how did you even go 100k miles in 2-3 years. So you know that car is a lemon waiting to happen.
@@az_3kgt714 I wouldn’t say it would be a lemon as long as it was routinely maintained…i’m not a mechanic though. I don’t now if 100k miles in 3 years is worse for the car than 100k miles in 6 years.
No, that's not really crazy if you assume the manufacturer's trying to price based on the vehicle's worth; if they lowball themselves on a product that would sell higher based on quality or w/e then you'd get people saying that they'd pay more than the asking price
When the GR Corolla was about to come out, I went to Torrance Toyota to talk about pricing since I was really interested on buying it. We talked numbers and they ultimately came up with a $20K markup. I laughed at the salesman face and said if it comes with another corolla? I walked up and left. Fuck those greedy assholes.
Everything gets worse. Cars, homes, appliances, video games, job security, infrastructure, affordability, entertainment, etc etc etc. I have never had a year of my life where it felt like things were getting better. Year after year, the pressure builds a bit more. No amount of hard work will improve my life at this point.
it's all by design, the people who run the world are pinching us inch by inch until we own nothing and are dependent on sociopolitical infrastructure and systems for everything. That way they can rule atop the shitheap. if they thought they could get away with it, theyd make us all techno serfs overnight tomorrow. But they've opted for the frogs in a pot method since its less of a risk to what they already control.
@@LotterywinnerifyThis is the best response possible to this comment. Having a good community at a church is the only thing that can get you through this. Unfortunately most people are finding that out the hard way, and most still don’t learn.
I honestly think the car market will crash. An overwhelming majority can't pay 70K for vehicles. A lot of these idiots that do can't afford it and are severely burdened or lose it
Tip #2 has been invaluable to me. Back when 0% apr was possible, the dealer teased it then did a “oops you’re credit isn’t good enough” so I ignored their alternative offer that would have added a year of payments and walked. The next morning there was a voicemail that somehow they found a way to get me that 0%. I guess my credit magically improved over night.
this bleeds directly into open borders. as we are flooded with people who naturally have low agency and low impulse control, they are less likely to know anything about markets. so what we see as a high ass price, those people will see it as YOLO and think they are getting a deal. pair that with our educational system is teetering on useless and you can see how people are suckered in
I guess... But if you actually need a car, then you're a bit stuck, eh? And given that we've killed public transit and bike lanes are now part of the culture war, people do in fact **need** a car to go basically anywhere. Those automotive lobbyists really do pay for themselves.
What should some one pay for a car? 5+ years ago no one paid MSRP. Now we treat msrp as it is a holy number. What would be a fair price to pay for a new vehicle?
@@michaeldemko1694 well dealer markup of 30k is surely not deal you should get into. Shop around and compare prices. Like whats said in the video if, you dont like the numbers walk away
Roman is being to nice to the people that "earned their car" because of dark times. Them dealers incentivized the costumers to buy a car through no APR. The people thought they could get away by gaming the system by, no joke, investing in cars. Guess what? Dealers made a killing, ran out of inventory, demand went up, manufacturers played it loose in the QC department to catch up, everyone inflated the bubble were in, and lo and behold: they can't do that no more. Dealers haven't caught up to the fact that people aren't willing to play ball with those prices, the "smrt" investor isn't getting their investment back like olden times, and literally everyone is pissed off watching a video like this. Round of applause everybody. Good job! Five Stars, will recommend.
@@dforrest4503 two years ago, I went so far as to going to the Miami auto show with a check and attempting to buy one right off the floor and corporate did nothing about it. So instead, my wife went with a Buick.
Should have laughed and walked away. They would try to stop you before walking out. I had a dealer/salesperson try and sell me a Subaru Forester.. "This ones got the HIGH OUTPUT v6..." I snickered... then burst into laughter and walked. "What what is so funny?" No subaru uses a v6 engine. Some (very few) haver a H 6 or Flat 6.. but never a v engine. and 99% of them have 4 cylinders...
That is exactly what I did, my wife went ahead and bought a Buick enclave instead of a carnival which really sucks because I did really really like the car and I truly wanted her to be in that what they were doing was absolutely ridiculous
People need to remember that this is textbook price gouging. For most Americans, car ownership is imperative, not a choice or a luxury. Consumers keep buying because cars are a life-sustaining tool with a fixed lifespan - if you don't replace your financed Sentra with a blown transmission, you will lose your job, and your credit score will drop, putting you even further in the hole when you buy the replacement. We can't all have a 250,000 mile car bought from a barn for $1000, so for the other 99%, the cycle of debt and dealer scams makes them compulsory car-buyers.
Agreed. This is what frustrates me alot with the nimrods in the comments that go "just buy a 3-5k beater that is reliable" or "just don't buy a car and keep your current one" because there is no acknowledging that alot of folks don't have this option. There's several in my area that had to get into the market because a tornado or a flood destroyed their vehicles or a drunk a-hole crashed into it. Some had to because their current vehicle had a problem occur that you could not fix yourself like a kaput engine or transmission. Then on top of that, now they're entering a market that has these increased markups and starting prices for older used vehicles and hope that they either can sustain payments or even if they had the cash (which many of them can't), hope to god they don't get another lemon that will be a money sink for longer. In my area when many of those
Exactly. If there are no alternatives to a car, then prices should be regulated. We don't allow other industries that produce necessary goods to gouge like this.
americans talk about how a car makes them "independent" but in reality we're slaves to them would be real nice to not have to drive everywhere (and thus require shitty crossover sales) but alas
And because of the insane prices of New vehicles, used ones are even more insanely priced. People know no one can afford new, so they ask crazy $$ now.
Buy an older car for cash and learn how to work on it. Im 53 and have never paid more than $5K for a car. Usually I spend under $3K. I have driven at least a million Niles in my life and have never ever had a car payment. It isn't that hard to do.
just bought an 81 BMW 5 series in very good condition for 3500, literally just be patient and look around on marketplace/craigslist there's still good deals
Or even if it's cheap it's been some beater that can be a lemon that requires more work than even DIY John Doe can reasonably fix (like a bad transmission or engine).
Imagine if firearms were the same way as cars. I recently built a custom shotgun on the manufacturer's website and ordered it. Per federal law they can't just mail a gun to your house, it had to go to my nearest licensed firearm dealer which was my local Bass Pro Shops. Imagine if I paid Mossberg $700 for my shotgun, then they mailed it to Bass Pro, and Bass Pro suddenly charged me $1,100 for it.
It's because there's competition, there's probably 5 other FFLs within a few miles and they just want to get you in the door so you'll buy ammo for that new gun. If you could go the Chevy dealer to get a new Ford the markups would disappear just as fast as if you could order manufacturer direct.
Tbf, Bass Pro (and many other dealers) already do that. I've been to so many fucking gun stores where they're not just marked up a little over MSRP which is normal and common depending on region... but like multiple hundreds of dollars over. It's exactly WHY we buy guns online these days, and dealers react by charging obscene transfer fees. It doesn't cost dealers $50 or $100 to transfer a firearm, and asking more than $25-35 is just FFLs exploiting people's requirement to go through them (Especially in states like Oregon with universal background checks. A not entirely unreasonable law from the state that becomes unreasonable because the state does not enforce a reasonable maximum fee, so FFLs charge however much)
To bring in a positive experience, when I bought my BRZ I paid exactly MSRP for it. I walked in to the dealer, said "I want a BRZ" and we had the order done in about an hour. I just picked the trim, transmission, color and options and I got exactly what I wanted.
My dad had a pretty similar experience at Porsche Beachwood. We scheduled an appointment, salesman walked us through the options (there are a lot) and the price on the builder is the price they agreed to. He signed a deposit check and now we wait!
I notice most Subaru dealers are pretty good when it comes to selling at MSRP. I see countless Toyota dealers selling GR86's close to 40k which makes no sense when I can go down the street and pick up a BRZ for MSRP.
As a former car salesman and employee of a Luxury Brand dealership (now an attorney), I can say historically, new car sales were not true money makers for a dealership, if anything, all they served to do was create a stream of vehicles for the Dealership’s service shop, which was the bread and butter income for a dealership. Used Car sales however were money making enterprises, which is why seasoned salesman usually focused on selling used cars, instead of new cars as it lead to higher commissions. With extreme supply chain issues of COVID, it created the environment for higher markups & New Car Sales to actually make money for a dealership. Once these profits were discovered, owners of dealerships were not willing to go back to pre-markup practices and we find ourselves in a situation where new cars have bloated in price, and dealerships have gone to terrible lengths to squeeze as much out of consumers as possible.
Exactly this. I also used to work in New sales at a luxury car brand and can confirm. I made great money on used cars but new cars had no margin, only selling for MSRP or often below.
@@walrusaurelius4801 on the new side, especially for luxury, it's not really a big add because most buyers are already pre-qualified with their own top-tier rates. If you had people who wanted to ball out on a new car, esp. younger people who had just come into some money with a promotion or something, they were good candidates for dealer-preferred financing. On the used side, it's anything goes. Much wider range of credit scores, many more people open to dealer-preferred financing, few people are even aware of their credit or options. We've all been there, and if you're starting from not knowing anything and worried about your ability to even get approved, you'll happily go with a dealer's lender, and the dealer will add some small markup to the rate to make extra revenue in the total financed amount. 🤷
@@walrusaurelius4801Finance Managers typically receive an origination fee for loans approved… Could be flat or percentage based. The higher the loan amount, the higher the fee earned.
True, if the economy is good and we're making enough money to splurge on stuff, I probably wouldn't mind paying above sticker price. With how things are, I have to be vigilant with the pricing and bring up any hidden fees the person didn't mention.
That King of the Hill episode wont make sense to anyone who isnt old enough to have seen it new, what hank is doing by todays standards is still a dream
Check out an old episode of House Hunters too! Listed for $300,000, negotiated down to $225,000! Now it's listed for $600,000 but you don't get a sniff unless you're offering $750,000. Nuts.
I had a dealership try to tell me my Honda S2000 was worth $6,000 and I told them Kelly Blue Book said it was at MINIMUM worth $12,000. Then when they tried to sell me a fucking 100k mile Yaris they had the gall to tell me it was worth $9,000 because the appraiser said so. All dealerships can suck it, especially Hgreg
@@Pato-sp2pr It has been a month since that experience and I am still recovering from that lmao. It's honestly just so disrespectful, really showed me how scummy dealers can be
My ex bought a car from them down in Orlando and took it back to trade about 8 months later. The car had seen about 2400 miles of driving. Not even enough for an oil change. They gave her half AND SHE TOOK IT. I dodged a bullet with that one.
Between old JDM cars skyrocketing to new car prices and new car prices skyrocketing to absurd monthly payments. Markup by dealerships. Shops charging mortgage payments on work to get done. The entire car market is in a terrible state and as a lifelong car enthusiast, I call it quits. The cars that I currently have will be my final vehicles that I will be investing money into. I’m going to start putting my money into other things. The good days of being a car enthusiast as long gone. Cars are no longer about passion… it’s all cash grab now. Sad times
@@stevebuscemi3622I bought my 2003 Mustang GT just before the COVID madness. Crazy to see how inflated that “value” of my car has become. I would never sell tho.
Stop being such an overly dramatic teen girl. The market is already correcting. In two years you will get a massive deal on any car. Basic economics can't be ignored for long.
Nobody is buying the cars. They are ok selling less cars for more money. The age of cars on American roads is the oldest they have ever been. 12.5 years is now the average age of cars.
To the people who can afford to buy or finance these, you all have the responsibility to say no and help the rest of the people out. Although I can comfortably throw away $800 per month on a shiny pick up, I elected to buy a used $20k pick up. I will not be complacent or contribute to this madness. At least there’s one thing I can control these days.
Back in 2013 I bought a 2006 Mustang GT premium with 38k miles for $14k…today the very same car with more than double the mileage is going for an average asking price of $17k+. The price of used cars is almost as ridiculous as the price of new cars lately
@@Mr.FirebIadeDr.JiIIAIiceCoopernot one thing to do with your incorrect political leanings. It’s pure greed, which plants it roots in your political side.
Tip #2 is very powerful. I've gotten up to leave and had very quick concessions made for a better deal. On my last used car purchase, I just flat out told them I wasn't going to buy it if they insisted on the unwanted dealer add-ons. They tried to claim there was no negotiation on that...till I said "Okay, I'm gonna keep looking elsewhere" Suddenly all of them were waived. "No" is the most powerful sentence we have as buyers (though I feel for those who are in desperate need of a halfway decent car and don't have much leverage)
The biggest headache is that the price FLOOR is going up. I'm trying to get a new rustbucket because my last one died and pre-pandemic, if you wanted 4-wheels, an engine and a guarantee that the car would get you through a few paychecks before needing maintenance, all you needed was $1,500. Nowadays it'll cost you 3x-4x that and be without the guarantee that it'll survive long enough for you to get the money together to maintain it. To make matters worse, alternatives like the bus or rideshares have also gone up so much that it's actually turning out to be more expensive for me to NOT own a car and getting around this way is actually eating into the money I had saved for a new car. This whole economy is just in shambles, dude.
One piece of advice I can give is never going to dealership your keys. I had that happen one time when I was younger and they're trying to get me into a really bad deal and I asked him to get my keys back and then they suddenly couldn't find them. It was a whole scam to try to keep me in the dealership to try to pressure me into the deal. I don't mind if they want to check the car out while we're on a test drive but now I tell them it's unlocked. I had one dealership tell me it's their policy to get the key to make sure that it works, I told him it's my policy to never give anyone my key that I don't trust. We ended up not making the deal because they made up a bunch of excuses why they couldn't take the trade in. It's stuff like that that just is stupid and makes you wonder why people don't trust independent dealerships anymore. I really wish we could just buy straight from the manufacturer as it would avoid all that crap. I know not everyone's able to but I know people have gotten very good deals by finding dealerships that would allow them to order the car at MSRP and then pay whatever shipping and delivery fees to avoid all the BS from the dealership. Usually they'll only do that on specialty cars but it's worth a shot if you really need a new car.
I mean devils advocate here, I wouldn’t appraise a car I can’t start and hear the engine run. If the dealer didn’t give me back my keys I would just call the cops. When I sold cars we never kept the keys to anyones car but we needed it so the manager could take it to the appraiser
Eh, I'd give them the keys. When they're done and I ask for the keys back and they say no, I'd give them 1 chance to return them and then I'd call 911 and report a car theft. Let all the emergency services show up and make their day hell for being con artist
Special ordering a vehicle isn't difficult and anyone can do it. I have half a dozen times in the last thirty years. Especially when I want something specific, like a 2001 XJ Cherokee in gunmetal (silver-blue) that they stopped offering on the Cherokee in 1999, but was still available for Wranglers. I also special ordered a 5-door WRX, Crosstrek when they first came to America, a Forester XT, and several HD trucks for my tree farm. That's how you get the options you want without useless overpriced dealer add-ons like wheel locks, bumper appliques, etc. I also stipulate in the purchase agreement that there will be no dealer or franchise advertising, branding, decal, or logo on the vehicle.
Absolutely. Bring both keys with you, if they want to inspect a trade in. That way you are free to leave (they will magically find your keys as you walk out to your car)
With so many people paying above sticker for their most recent car purchase, everyone of them is underwater on their loan. So very few can afford to buy new cars. So I hope dealers enjoyed their sugar high, because they're crashing hard now.
i think things are different now. dealers can only increase prices in this climate. i only see 2 options going forward: price hikes or complete market crash.
Dealers DO NOT CARE!!! They are more interested in making money in warranty and maintenance/repairs and crap breaking engine lights etc.... that's their main course
@@NissanSkyline901 the ideal new car has all the bells and whistles and all the latest tech. The ideal used car has a five speed manual transmission, manual windows, AM/FM radio, and no leaky sunroof.
Canada has laws for that. A dealer can't sell a new car for over MSRP. BUT for hot cars like , GR Corolla, Golf R's etc. Dealers just give the keys to the salesman to drive around in for a week , change the title over once , and now its ''USED'' with 300miles and 20k over MSRP. Love to see it.
They do the same shit in the states to not get in trouble with corporate. Still clear as day to what they're doing. 300 miles and a giant mark up. I'd rather pound sand.
If your car needs a repair watch out for shady shops. If you have a shop that sells used cars you have to think where did they get them? I had a car that had a transmission issue. I took it to one of these shady shops and dropped it off. I was quoted $5,400 for transmission and they assured me that it was the only way it was getting fixed. They also gave me a quote to buy my car that had only 80k miles on it.. I immediately took my keys back. I didn't know what to do at that point so as a last resort i wnt elsewere for a transmission flush and fill with filter replacement and my car came back to life. 15k miles later and still running strong. So the first quote i got for a transmission replacement actually lied to me hoping i would just give up the car and sell it to them for parts. I bet they would have done the same fluid flush and sold the car right in the lot. Some mechanics are just crooks these days.
all of them... and when you pull back the curtain and look at the numbers, there is no reason other than pure greed! None of these companies are hurting in the least!
I’ve been trying to get a FR-S for going on 5 years now. Only ones halfway reasonably priced are clapped out, automatics, or 2013s that had valve issues. Sorry bro, not paying $20k for your 10 year old out car that handles great but is underpowered af and I know you and the previous 3 owners have dogged the crap out of. The one halfway decent one I found in 2022 was at a Kia dealer. The car had been there 4 months. I got an out-the-door price emailed to me the night before for $18,500 and they STILL RAISED THE PRICE ON ME THE NEXT DAY. He’s right about brand resentment. I will probably never buy a Kia because of that.
@@Mr.FirebIadeDr.JiIIAIiceCooper Living on the other side of the world and still experiencing the same price increases. You americans are something else I swear
@@ileutur6863 Yeah, I'm not sure how what President is in office effects the cost of buying a vehicle. You can make arguments for gas or maintenance, but buying NEW? When all of those cars are XYZ Compliant to hell and back? Nah. This is pure greed. The supply chain issues of COVID became an excuse for every major manufacturer. Even though those times are over, every company acts like it's so challenging to procure parts and build the damn things, as if we haven't done it for 100 years.
Last dealership I worked for couldn't make quota if they sold every car on the lot. With 22million worth of inventory just sitting. Let them price themselves into oblivion so we can finally just buy direct from the manufacturer.
The average consumer is a moron. They will pay obscene rates, with long terms. Pay wild amounts for warranties, gap insurance, etc. If it fits within a payment they can barely make. This is the vast majority, one paycheck away from all the cards crumbling.
I'm glad dealer markups are illegal in Canada. Even then, dealers here manage to work BS fees into the sale. I was forced to buy a $580 "window etch and wheel lock" package with my new Mazda 6 months ago. So many people in the comments are saying they'll never buy a new car, but where I live it doesn't make sense to buy used. Used prices are insane (ex. $30,000 for a 2020 RAV-4 with 100,000 km on it), but also cars here rust out in as little as 5 years unless rust protection has been regularly and meticulously tended to, with very few making it past 10 years.
And your username says NS/NB, I'm around Ottawa and the salt = death. Krown treatment every Aug/Sep keeps the frame rails baked in solid oil... I've been dailying a '13 G37xS sedan since Oct 2016, 100-110 km daily commute and 202,400 km on the clock now. Zero body rust, she's still shiny in her black coat.
@@jacquesc3166 Yep, I'm in NB. I had to give up my 2010 Ford Focus due to rust. It was undercoated when new, and when I bought it in 2019 I started getting it Krowned every year, but it was too late. I actually had the rocker panels replaced on it, but the subframe itself was gone. I chose not to undercoat my new Mazda, and I'm going to get it Krowned every year.
I have a story similar to the guy and the '92 Oldsmobile. Near my workplace, I spotted this 70s Ford ranchero. I pulled over to take a closer look. Turns out it's rusted up the ass, the paint is withered, and there's literal trash in the cabin. They wanted $5500 for it. $5500 FOR A HUNK OF RUSTED SHIT. That was last year. It's still sitting there to this day
Damn, you sound like exactly like me. I've been searching for a 73-76 Ranchero after COVID hit, and none have been worthy enough to buy without sacrificing your wallet and/or your time to put it back together. Hope you find a good one soon.
People keep making dumb choices. We had cheap models. The OEMs took them away because not many bought them. The Corolla hybrid is a great car and relatively affordable but it’s market share falls every year as people get the RAV4 or 4Runner
I bought my 2020 f350 dump truck for a lot under MSRP. Basically, if the MSRP for JUST THE TRUCK was 40k, I paid 45k for the truck, the 10000$ dump bed, and I got a 3500$ rebate/refund so I actually paid like 41500$ for a 50000$ rig. I did have to drive 1200 miles to get that deal tho.
If we had real freemarket capitalism you could buy a tuk-tuk or a Toyota hilux and have it shipped to your door like a pizza. And there would be a thousand people trying to figure out how to get it to you cheaper
Or a Suzuki Jimny, Toyota hilux champ, Honda E or whatever cool budget import possible. But we are stuck with our freedom being sucked away just like the colors of modern cars just becoming gray.
@@pile_of_trash I love me some of those FreedomTM Tariffs on Chinese EV's because they're simply better than domestic cars, can't be having the poors with affordable good vehicles when there's money to be made for American capitalists
@@aminoacid6177 How's the bootshine taste? You want a car without crumple zones, air bags and with an engine that will try to fume you to death just for fun? Along with glue that will give you cancer from the fumes, a steering wheel that's not sturdy enough to keep up with panic movements and instead just buckles etc Being against regulations is the dumbest possible take, you should be against capitalists, not for them.
Its everything not just cars. Nobody cares about the objective value of something anymore, they just want to squeeze as much money out of the consumer as they can. Just today i saw a sign that said they were selling a bacon egg and cheese for $6.99. Its something i could make for a dollar and could sell for 3.50 at most. Theres so much greed its disgusting
One time a dealership tried to charge my mom 4 grand for a "120k mile ford escape from like 2007 or whatever", it really had alignment issues, horrendous rust and 250k miles, they litterally lied. We got there and they're like "that's the down price," you actually have to pay a total of $17,000.
a lot of people are paying more than a mortgage payment for cars they paid WAY too much for during the lockdowns - they figured that they can sleep in their car but you cannot drive your house.... (Eddie Murphy standup)
Because in America, owning a car is necessary to live. The Federal government will even just give you money through disability benefits if your health conditions render you unable to drive in a manner that is safe to you and everyone around you. Think legally blind and/or deaf.
ford has been wanting to sell direct to customers for awhile now... getting rid of the sales side of dealerships. the other problem is MSRP is too high also..
They tried with EVs to side-step dealers - it didn't really happen because at the same time dealer per unit profits were sky high and they took that profit to comply with what Ford wanted the dealers to look like and be setup to sell EVs...
You can thank obama and the epa for the crazy msrps. Because the research $ for better gas mileage gets passed on to the consumer. Then all the tech they pack in now is also big $; take out back up cameras, lane keep assist, side curtain airbags, giant touch screens, etc you could get the price way down. But we cant do that because everybodies sue happy these days, gotta be as safe as possible
This is more of a consequence of the value of cars going up. Your not paying for your car's worth but the potential wreck you cause to someone else's car
@@Michael-sb8jfno this is a result of everyone suing for every accident, average settlements and judgements skyrocketing, increased wage costs and increasing medical costs. You pay much much more for potential injuries with your car insurance than you do to insure the car itself. The incredible amount of litigation is finally catching up.
Funnily, in Europe you have super high sticker prices and nearly always get a 10-15 percent discount at the dealership, while in the U.S. you have low sticker prices and pay dealer markups.
I feel your pain. I'm still kicking myself for passing on a '92 GMC Sierra 1500 that had retrofitted R-134a AC, NO RUST, owned by an elderly gentleman who donated it to a used non-profit car lot, and was listed for only $5k. Plus, the price was negotiable and I know I could've gotten away with it for $4500. That was December, 2022. Can't find a similar one for that kind of money now.
I'm still amazed that all those 100's of thousands of vehicles (mostly full size pickup trucks like F150) built without necessary "chips" and were stored for months and months in open fields were sold as new with higher than MSRP prices. At least when stuff starts failing multiple times the buyer can cite lemon laws and get out of them (hopefully). I told my sales guy at a Ford dealership in 2017 that we'd likely see $100k trucks be almost common place in a few years - he chuckled and then said "you're very likely right". Now a base stripped F150 XL is $40k - IF you can find one...
what i've seen recently in my friend group is a HUGE push to fix or repair their existing cars, like to an absurd degree, I had a friend pricing out a 3k+ repair on a 16 yr old vehicle because "it would be better for me to sink 3 or 5 grand into this car, that take on 50k+ at the dealership" and car dealers are REALLY feeling the pinch, car inventories are sitting, and no one is buying cause these cars are overpriced, AND they are not reliable either
I'm considering brand new subframes from 10 years ago subframes, front and rear, overstock from Nissan bought by Z1 in Atlanta, for my 11 year old G sedan with 125K miles on the clock. Never thought I'd be looking at that (ever) when I got the car in Oct 2016.
I saw this at the end of the 90's beginning of the 2000's with the music industry. They knew the internet would seriously diminish the prices of physical media and they started releasing overpriced CD's of compilations with just one or two new songs, new records with a couple of B-Sides or demos thrown in, redundant live releases... This market still exists but just with very big bands like Pink Floyd or The Beatles and it's rather niche. Back then Napster was just in its infancy and internet wasn't fast or widespread enough and the way to get music was still mainly through physical media. The record companies squeezed every penny out of it and we all turned our backs on them and started downloading music. What will happen with cars in the future I don't know but what car companies are doing now looks very similar to what happened to physical media back then.
Well you can't just download a car, but what they're afraid of is rideshare and people just no longer buying/leasing personal cars because the nwo wants to stop personal ownership of everything
Interesting comment. The difference is these dealers are protected by state law because most, if not all states, require new car sales to be made through authorized dealers and cannot be direct from manufacture. This is how they screw you. They offer zero value but donate so much to politicians that the laws won’t change until the people change them via proposition. Dealers days are numbered.
Spotify sucks for artists and listeners, yet people complain about price of mobile internet access and at the same time 'please put it in spotify' comment is always around. can someone tell me the logical reason behind that? do they not know phones can perfectly contain music off grid from internet? lazy? no variety/shuffle? Am I so old that I still use cable to transfer music to phone for the cost of time recording to avoid internet noise/ads/cost?
If you look at your local dealer inventories, you'll see they have nothing but expensive pickup trucks and SUV's on the lot. Nobody is buying them because the prices are outrageous. It's not bad everywhere though: After 2 years of looking and 4 years of saving since my last car was paid off, I pulled the trigger on a Ridgeline Trailsport a few weeks ago. I paid $43K, $3K below MSRP and got a fair trade in on my 8 year old Accord. Paid for 1/2, financed the rest at 1.9% for 3 years. If it hadn't been for the color (Diffused Sky Pearl) low APR and incentives, I'd still be driving the old car. I'm glad I was finally able to find something reasonable for my budget that had everything I wanted.
I’m the proud owner of three vehicles bought in the last 2 years, a 2007 BMW 335i, a 2006 Landcruiser Prado turbo diesel, and a 1982 Volvo 244. All purchased for total of $15000 Australian dollars (approx 10k USD). As long as you can spin a spanner, the car market is ok. I could not imagine spending my total car purchasing price on a markup on a new Korean economy car. Great video once again
Each equally great choices. The 335 offers a nice sporty respite from lumbering around in the ‘Prady’ while the Volvo takes up the ambling around just getting things down. 👌 I’m the same.
There certainly are some dealerships out there that are burning through any and all good will with consumers by these gross practices. I worked at a small family owned dealership for the last 5 years, and the only vehicles they charged over for were Z06 C8 corvettes and final production run ZL1 Camaros. And even that, less than 7,000 usually around 5,000. Nothing else ever received a markup. The new place that I am currently the Sales Manager at, did not even mark up our Bronco Raptor we just moved. Capitalism is a pendulum, and many manufacturers are looking for ways to circumvent the traditional dealership experience (or at least go around ones that make the brand look bad with these practices) it will swing back again, and dealerships and brands that allowed this practices will receive what’s coming to them. If we want a better car industry, we have to do it together.
I will never, ever buy a new car. My friend was a dealer for over 30 years and was nice enough to tell his friends what they were all about. You have to be a fool to buy from a dealer, any dealer. It's their job to rip you off, and some of them are really great at it. Buy used from folks who need the money, most folks sell because of just that reason and you'll be on the good end of the deal most all of the time, just have the patience needed to do that and you'll be golden.
I ran into a dealership owner who told me essentially that the internet has made it so hard to sell cars at a profit because consumers now have a bulk of information which they didn’t have in years past. He said that fees and market adjustments are how you make money, not just by selling cars. He was really resentful of resources that buyers have now.
@@ryanlunde575Agreed. I can go to my local dealership and show them the next dealership in the town over that’s selling the same car for 0 percent Apr… people just have to be smart on how you shop. DO NOT accept the first deal you get people!
Mmm no i got some good discounts on a 2024 G550 Mercedes and my friend got around 15% off for an Audi S7, sorry if you can only afford shitty cars and know shitty people
I don’t think I want a new car or truck anymore. Planned obsolescence is definitely a thing and the amount of technology they cram in the new cars is absurd and really not needed. Plus the price to fix is outrageous. $1500 for a taillight?! And EVERYTHING breaks. I’ll stick with my Crown Vics that are almost 20 years old yet run amazingly.
The Police Departments knew it when they all rushed out to buy every one of the last of the Panther platform cars upon Ford announcing its demise. Modern cars are over complicated electronics wise, and suffer from planned obsolescence as you mentioned. 💔
@@12pentaborane That's insane. I've seen people defend Toyota as having shunned this trend of unfixable disposable vehicles sold for incredible markups but that cannot be true
Remember growing up in the 90's? Being told if, you go to college, get a good job you'll be able to have a family, a house, two cars and take vacations? Well, I fulfilled my end of the social contract, I busted my ass, went to college, got a good job aaaaaaaaannnddd... no house, old ass car, kids are financially impossible, groceries and utilities are eating 3/4 of my budget and vacations are trips to the local park. Society has failed us, dealerships are just a symptom of the overall problem.
The economy we have today is no longer companies competing with each other on price to get the customer… it’s about coordinating price increases across the board and raising the price floor everywhere. Why sell a car for less when you can all just sell the car for more everywhere? Seems something is short circuited here. It’s happening from fast food to houses to cars to food. It’s everywhere.
To me this focus on “markups” and “fees” over manufacturer prices totally misses that the MSRP does not reflect any true value, the dealers are the manufacturers’ real customers, and markup is how dealers, like every business is a capitalist society, is seeking to maximize profit. And while it seems nuts to me to have 7 year car loans, cars today last far longer without falling apart than they used to. Modern cars with 100k+ miles can run and look great. My parents on the other hand (boomers vs me, a millennial) tell me it used to be that cars would fall apart after 100k miles and that just isn’t the case anymore (with Japanese brands at least). So it makes sense to pay more for something that holds its utility and value for much longer.
You definitely have to look around, the nearest Ford dealership to me wants $40k for base model Ecoboost Mustangs but a dealer 50 miles away is listing them at MSRP of around $30k~
@@Mr.FirebIadeDr.JiIIAIiceCooper more like the top 2% of the US control 60 something % of the capital wtf do old men in a white house have anything to do with that ?
Only new cars will be for the upper class. Middle class will be buying used ones. And Lower class will either be driving clapped out shitboxes or taking the bus or walking.
No one else in the comment section is saying it so I will. I used to be an automotive tech and I can tell you right now that vehicles have become very complicated, over engineered monstrosities the past decade. When I would plug in a diagnostic tool I would read up to 32 different computer modules. Do we really need all this insane luxury to get from point A to point B?
I got super lucky with my car in 2019. 99 Saab 9-5 with 125k~ miles, single owner, every single last bit of repair paperwork, C L E A N as hell, and a 5 speed manual. For $2000. In Santa Barbara, California. 197k miles now and still going strong. I might cry if it ever gets so worn out that I can't fix it.
I have never bought a new car. My family could afford it but I was the black sheep, so I was given and bought a lot of beaters like my 1995 Honda Accord (Lasted me for 10 years), then a Honda Civic 2006 (Lasts me until now). These cars were cheap to buy (but they still did cost like what 3-4 grand used + repairs). For me, this was economical, but buying a new car was something I could have reached for ... at least with the prices being what they were prior. I think I remember seeing a Honda Civic for like ..15 grand or something? 20? I could maybe reason with that. But ... these past years have been insane. Anyone who isn't rich, to be honest, is priced out of a new car. THat means the used market is getting wrung like a rag. I settled for a motorcycle and I love it, but most people need to .. carry people, and cargo, and live the life that America has planned for them in the car centric vibe. WHo the hell is able to justify these dealer markups? It just eels like greet...
He didn’t even touch on one of the biggest issues with new cars- quality control. I have never seen so many cars from so many manufacturers (all of them in fact ) that are blatantly lemons from the factory. No fluid in differential, transmission, transfer case, etc. bad paint, hell NO paint on some panels. Missing parts. Bad parts The list goes on. Even Toyota is doing it. I’m shopping for a new vehicle this summer and finally am making enough to afford a new car. But I refuse to buy anything made after 2020. I’m just going to look for low mileage 18-20 vehicles.
Shit, even used vehicles that might be within our price range are coming out as lemons because the used dealers are buying whatever at auction to fill space regardless if it's questionable quality or not.
@@Trekpanther Even the buy here pay here lots are getting INSANE. Went to one seen a early 00s Lexus they wanted like 10 GRAND for it. Are these people on dope? i didn't even botther asking i knew i'd get tha oh its a lexus it will run forever blah blah blah
I've got a story too. Made a deal with Honda of Denton, TX, over the phone, to purchase a '22 CRV. They had my daughter do a credit app and did run her credit. THEN they hit us with $8,000 in BS magic air in tires, window tint, blessing from a local priest, etc., etc. I told them to F off and I will never do business with them again. The dealership model needs to end. Nothing but crooks.
So much wrong going on today in the car market. Everything from greedy dealers to financially illiterate consumers to unaccountable manufacturers to lax government regulations make this one of the worst times to buy a car EVER.
making a combined income of over $150k and buying a new car is never going to be an option for us at this rate. Bought used ones with 100k+ miles all my life and thought it'd be over by now. My parents had brand new cars/trucks working basic jobs in the 70s-80s. With not being able to find a home for less than $300k and rent doubling over the past couple years, something has to give in this economy
The main problem IMO is that we aren't allowed to be simple. Most people COULD afford a 90s civic or 90s ford ranger if they were made today with todays manufacturing, but because all cars now have to be awd, have a shit ton of electronics, it wont be. Most people could afford to build a tiny house, but it's illegal in most areas. We aren't allowed to be simple. Therefore none of the advancea we make actually matter for our time input. What's the point of being more efficient if you just translate that efficiency into bigger cars, bigger houses, etc? You don't actually reap the benefits. Sure your ride might be slightly comfier at first, maybe you get shinier plastics, but it doesn't translate into actual value. The only way to reap the value of todays world is to be a minimalist and go as simple as possible, which in the usa is made incredibly hard. In places like tokyo it's possible to be basically homeless but still live a high quality life, you don't "need" an apartment because they have so many hotel options, you don't "need" a car because their transportation system is excellent. In the USA it will continue to be a rat race because that's just how the design works. Everyone will be fighting for their piece of cheese.
Worked in finance for one of the worlds largest car manufacturing groups, drive a late 90s Camry. I don't pretend to know everything about the global market but until we get a severe recession where I live I can't see any slack developing in the market that would motivate a swing towards more reasonable pricing. We just cannot really build enough cars to meet demand, there is definitely market share in the table and I think that's why your starting to see Chinese manufacturers (MG, BYD etc.) move in.
how can that be? There are entire lots of cars just sitting all across the country.. the supply is there, its just all the stakeholders are trying to profit 50-300% more so the end consumer is faced with prices they just won't pay.... and so, the chinese will move in to the 10-25k market, while all the brands that had cars for 15-25k are now 35-50k... lmaoooo
Nobody is helping the dealer when they have bills to pay, and if you’re dumb enough to pay a markup, they’d be fools if they didn’t take the money. That said, take your business elsewhere, that’s the ultimate advantage the consumer has.
I’m a firm believer in buying $3k-$5k cars. I’m reasonably handy, and can fix most small items. Like your Camry, just give me something that works, plain vanilla, and reliable and I’m happy.
I've also come into that mindset. Driving is an utterly miserable experience these days, well it is in my country. I'm already getting screwed on insurance, fuel prices and car taxes, I'll be damned if I'm going to get screwed by a dealership on top of that.
@@12yearssober I just bought at 2014 Vauxhall Insignia (Buick Regal in the US). 64k miles for £3500. Granted I knew it needed a new thermostat housing, wheel hub and new tires but I've done those so hopefully years of trouble free and payment free driving
Problem is the a-holes got wise to this and now require subscriptions for repair firmware that are given to dealer techs and licensed to out of network shops. What used to be simple plug and play repair and replacements now require "calibration" and "syncing" right to repair reform is more relevant than ever.
I've said it once I'll say it again; I'm keeping my 40 year old Chrysler and my 26 year old 321,xxx mile lincoln, thanx also thanks for this report, roman! love these videos
I think this may be the best Roman Report video to date. Keep up the excellent work! You should plan out a follow up video for sometime in the future to revisit this topic
While I despise the dealers that impose these ridiculous markups, the people who pay these markups are indeed impatient, entitled, and willing to burn money. The buyers are effectively setting money on fire as they are very unlikely to every recoup or appreciate it. These buyers are enablers. i.e. Pablo Escobar would have had to find a different product if shmucks hadn't continued buying his product.
This is somehow relevant to me in Thailand as well, dealership has markups, not absurd amount like in the US, but it's there, yet I was not able to pay for new car. So my only choice was buying a used car, its repair cost and high fuel consumption from its age using old tech is still cheaper per km per month for me than buying cheapest new car.
Unless you're buying a carbureted car, fuel mileage in many older cars from the 90s to now is just as good or better than many modern cars. Sure, a hybrid will generally beat an ICE car, but a turbo diesel will have even better gas mileage than those and older cars were both fuel efficient and much smaller and lighter, meaning the fuel economy standards on ICE cars have virtually stagnated for 20+ years. So buy one in confidence that it will get you similar fuel economy.
For me, a sibling in 2021 who does not know about cars get basically scammed with a $20k, TERRIBLE SMELLING(had to tear everything out as there was carpet mold) 50k mileage 2018 Mirage g4 with missing panels at a dealership.
Excellent report, sir. Outstanding. My thoughts: 1) Clearly, many or most dealerships are short-sighted, looking for quick profits and let tomorrow "take care of itself", whatever that means. 2) The automakers are not helping, as they are pricing - without markups - at ridiculously high levels to begin with. When the median price of a Ford, GMC or Ram pickup truck is over $60,000 without regard to options and before markups, that's a problem. 3) Consumers are not as stupid as dealers want them to be. The longer this continues, the angrier the customer will be. There are a whole lot of new Dodge posts almost every day on youtube that are expressing anger and rage over what they are doing. 4) Dealerships, increasingly, are oligopolies, which makes the situation worse. Until 5) a new way to buy that avoids all that - that can be trusted and works - comes along and disrupts everything. And then the game is over. As you said, Tesla, Lucid and Rivian are doing that now. When a "legacy" automaker does that, that may make serious waves. Like Uber vs. the old taxi industry did. Thank you.
Nah man I can’t imagine a worse “investment” than a new vehicle. This is why I drive a 2003 Toyota Corolla I bought for 3 grand cash back in 2020. Runs like a clock. And I’m a master technician so it’s taken very well care of. I’d rather put my money into my savings for a down payment in a house instead of a car payment.
Maybe it is just because I am getting old and slowly turning into a WWII era grandpa, but not only do I think new cars are grossly overpriced, I think the styling is particularly terrible these days … like, even worse than mid-to-late 1970s American car ugly! On top of all that, I have absolutely no desire to learn how to operate all the useless electronic features that are forced on you when purchasing any new car today! My kingdom for “needles and knobs”! Why would I want to grossly overpay for something I don’t like and don’t want to go back to college to learn to use? And … don’t get me started on EVs! The only “chip shortage” that worries me are of the chocolate variety! Now, get off my lawn!
Hell $30,000 for a car is expensive
30K would be a reasonable price for a very fuel efficient, reliable, and rugged hybrid. Like a 1990s era Toyota where they somehow still run if you forget the engine oil
@@Demopans5990China is selling modern EV's for 10k. Everything above that price is profit gouging by corporations
China makes decent EV's that only cost $10,000. Everything above that is price gouging.
@@Praisethesunsonyea if you want it to burn your driveway. BYD
$1 is expensive
The issue is the normalization of absurd loans in order to give off the appearance of wealth. Funny how over the past few years I've gone from "wow I wonder what that person does to be able to afford that nice truck" to "wow that truck is hauling a massive amount of debt"
The appreciation I have for the fact I truly don't give a damn to impress others is immense. 😭🤣
I bought my last car new. Even at 14% off MSRP (it had been on the lot 6 months) it was still a dumb move. That car has been paid off for over 5 years now and I have ZERO interest in replacing it with a newer user car, let alone another new car. It still runs like new, albeit with some dings and scratches from years of apartment parking. I'll drive new cars when I have cause to rent them on trips!
Gotta build-in a truck bed big enough to carry their possessions out of their foreclosed home hastily on a Thursday night before the law shows up.
Hmm, if only we had the power of hindsight, as if something similar didn't happen in the US ~16 years ago...
@@monsoonthagoon it's a hell of a lot easier to re-sell a car than a house
It's why most "affordable" sports cars fail. The manufacturer builds a car for a certain market. Dealerships get these "rare" cars and then mark them up to be completely unavailable to the target market. They don't sell. They get discontinued. Rinse and repeat. It's depressing.
then manufacturers kill the car off because "sales didnt meet expectations" And you gotta go did you ever even bother to see what the dealerships did to your "affordable sports car?" They knee-capped it more often then not. Sabotaging it buy cranking up the price to ridiculous levels like the new nissan Z was supposed to msrp in the 30k range dealerships get it and now its 70-100k. Like jesus christ you might as well buy a ferrari.
Same thing with the GR Corolla. I'm not paying $50-60k for a Corolla.
That’s more or less what happened to the focus rs.
Why don't manufacturers just invest in vertically eliminating dealerships? Something akin to tesla's model (I don't like the company or the car, but the model still applies) or some proprietary Carvana model that brings cars to consumers with a return policy over x amount of days.
@Insanegorey some states have laws where you HAVE to buy through a dealership.
The worst I’ve ever seen is a local Toyota dealership charging $100k for a GR Corolla. It’s obscene.
Wtf..
A legit do not buy this loss leader.
Yeah, they are proud of those GRs.
Yeah I’ve seen a close price of that on a Rav4 prime. Absolutely nuts
Depends on the GR Corolla. The Morizo Edition is probably worth that much to someone (wealthy, desperate, or both) because it's limited to just 200 units. The unlimited ones (e.g., Core) aren't worth any "market adjustment".
I love when you trade your car and claim it's "high milage" at like 100k. But when you look at a used car they are like "it's only 100k miles. Thats low for this year"
The amount of times i’ve seen a car for sale with 100k miles, owner says it’s “low miles” 💀
I always find that luxury brands are always up for sale at around 60k. That warranty is done.
I had one dealership tell me my car was high miles at 75k and it would be "hard for them to sell". I don't remember what I said, but it was along the lines "well, doesn't sound like you guys are very good at selling cars". They didn't sell one to me that day.
for sure. if you have a 90's car with 100k miles that IS low mileage for the year. But 90k miles for a 2022 is extremely high mileage for the year. I saw that and went holy crap how did you even go 100k miles in 2-3 years. So you know that car is a lemon waiting to happen.
@@az_3kgt714 I wouldn’t say it would be a lemon as long as it was routinely maintained…i’m not a mechanic though. I don’t now if 100k miles in 3 years is worse for the car than 100k miles in 6 years.
The problem is the "27% of people said they would not buy above msrp again." Thats saying like 75% of them would pay above msrp. Wtf
or 100% would pay AT MSRP (27% wouldn't pay above and 73% that would pay MSRP) ;-)
Great catch.
Yup, the real problem is most people are STILL willing to pay the hiked-up prices.
VW dealer wanted me to take a 9% for 72 months. Even though price was good, 10% under MSRP I said hell no
No, that's not really crazy if you assume the manufacturer's trying to price based on the vehicle's worth; if they lowball themselves on a product that would sell higher based on quality or w/e then you'd get people saying that they'd pay more than the asking price
"ThE mArKeT iS sTaBiLiZiNg" - Doug 3 supercar Demuro
Doug" I literally run a part of the market" Demuro
Doug "let me tell people useless facts to random people" Demuro
Doug the type of guy to scam people in the internet while wearing socks and sandals
@@Elinzar does he really scam ppl, though?
@@Elinzarand 2 t shirts 😂
When the GR Corolla was about to come out, I went to Torrance Toyota to talk about pricing since I was really interested on buying it. We talked numbers and they ultimately came up with a $20K markup. I laughed at the salesman face and said if it comes with another corolla? I walked up and left. Fuck those greedy assholes.
I had a co-worker get one for MSRP. He was able to flip it for a Type R + cash
"walked up"
@matturner6890 get a life bro
@@Norfdwarf ok I will thx 👍
I looked at a 2024 accord last week
It was $46000
Insane
I paid 29k for my 2019 accord sport 2.0... The markup is insane!
Should be easy for me to get 3500 for mine!
Holy crap!!!
@@jimbobaggans1564 yea and the civics were $30k
Honda across the whole brand is 20-25% overpriced
Everything gets worse.
Cars, homes, appliances, video games, job security, infrastructure, affordability, entertainment, etc etc etc.
I have never had a year of my life where it felt like things were getting better. Year after year, the pressure builds a bit more. No amount of hard work will improve my life at this point.
it's all by design, the people who run the world are pinching us inch by inch until we own nothing and are dependent on sociopolitical infrastructure and systems for everything. That way they can rule atop the shitheap. if they thought they could get away with it, theyd make us all techno serfs overnight tomorrow. But they've opted for the frogs in a pot method since its less of a risk to what they already control.
I hope youre still alive
It's all going according to plan.
@@LotterywinnerifyThis is the best response possible to this comment.
Having a good community at a church is the only thing that can get you through this. Unfortunately most people are finding that out the hard way, and most still don’t learn.
Ancestors weren't wrong when they were saying that the world is coming to an end.
I honestly think the car market will crash. An overwhelming majority can't pay 70K for vehicles. A lot of these idiots that do can't afford it and are severely burdened or lose it
No, because people will be forced to lease and/or get into debt, paying a lot more in the end, satisfying banks with interest, too.
@@Schmidt54 I have bought a car since 17. Take care of your stuff and it will last. I won't go in huge financial dept for a vehicle
They just keep extending loan lengths....84 months is now not uncommon.
@@Schmidt54
Lease is the way of the future. That is why all makers are building cars that begin to fall apart as soon as the warranty runs out.
@@12yearssoberlol yep which is why im honestly refusing to buy a car newer than like 2010 now
Tip #2 has been invaluable to me. Back when 0% apr was possible, the dealer teased it then did a “oops you’re credit isn’t good enough” so I ignored their alternative offer that would have added a year of payments and walked. The next morning there was a voicemail that somehow they found a way to get me that 0%. I guess my credit magically improved over night.
Dealer markups are insane but whats more insane are the people willing to get ripped off
this bleeds directly into open borders. as we are flooded with people who naturally have low agency and low impulse control, they are less likely to know anything about markets. so what we see as a high ass price, those people will see it as YOLO and think they are getting a deal.
pair that with our educational system is teetering on useless and you can see how people are suckered in
"Go with the flow" types make it worse for everybody else. Not everybody is willing to be ripped off as you stated.
I guess... But if you actually need a car, then you're a bit stuck, eh? And given that we've killed public transit and bike lanes are now part of the culture war, people do in fact **need** a car to go basically anywhere. Those automotive lobbyists really do pay for themselves.
What should some one pay for a car? 5+ years ago no one paid MSRP. Now we treat msrp as it is a holy number. What would be a fair price to pay for a new vehicle?
@@michaeldemko1694 well dealer markup of 30k is surely not deal you should get into.
Shop around and compare prices. Like whats said in the video if, you dont like the numbers walk away
"This simply cannot continue"
It's been THREE YEARS, and it still keeps getting worse. Something's gotta give, and it never does.
The poor will give up ever more of their very few pennies. Because people in America need cars more than dealers need to sell cars.
Roman is being to nice to the people that "earned their car" because of dark times. Them dealers incentivized the costumers to buy a car through no APR. The people thought they could get away by gaming the system by, no joke, investing in cars. Guess what? Dealers made a killing, ran out of inventory, demand went up, manufacturers played it loose in the QC department to catch up, everyone inflated the bubble were in, and lo and behold: they can't do that no more. Dealers haven't caught up to the fact that people aren't willing to play ball with those prices, the "smrt" investor isn't getting their investment back like olden times, and literally everyone is pissed off watching a video like this. Round of applause everybody. Good job! Five Stars, will recommend.
Kia tried to charge me 15 over sticker for a carnival… 15 over sticker for a minivan
When?
@@dforrest4503 two years ago, I went so far as to going to the Miami auto show with a check and attempting to buy one right off the floor and corporate did nothing about it. So instead, my wife went with a Buick.
The Carnival is a really good minivan, but 15k over is still extreme.
Should have laughed and walked away. They would try to stop you before walking out. I had a dealer/salesperson try and sell me a Subaru Forester.. "This ones got the HIGH OUTPUT v6..." I snickered... then burst into laughter and walked. "What what is so funny?" No subaru uses a v6 engine. Some (very few) haver a H 6 or Flat 6.. but never a v engine. and 99% of them have 4 cylinders...
That is exactly what I did, my wife went ahead and bought a Buick enclave instead of a carnival which really sucks because I did really really like the car and I truly wanted her to be in that what they were doing was absolutely ridiculous
People need to remember that this is textbook price gouging. For most Americans, car ownership is imperative, not a choice or a luxury. Consumers keep buying because cars are a life-sustaining tool with a fixed lifespan - if you don't replace your financed Sentra with a blown transmission, you will lose your job, and your credit score will drop, putting you even further in the hole when you buy the replacement.
We can't all have a 250,000 mile car bought from a barn for $1000, so for the other 99%, the cycle of debt and dealer scams makes them compulsory car-buyers.
Agreed. This is what frustrates me alot with the nimrods in the comments that go "just buy a 3-5k beater that is reliable" or "just don't buy a car and keep your current one" because there is no acknowledging that alot of folks don't have this option. There's several in my area that had to get into the market because a tornado or a flood destroyed their vehicles or a drunk a-hole crashed into it. Some had to because their current vehicle had a problem occur that you could not fix yourself like a kaput engine or transmission.
Then on top of that, now they're entering a market that has these increased markups and starting prices for older used vehicles and hope that they either can sustain payments or even if they had the cash (which many of them can't), hope to god they don't get another lemon that will be a money sink for longer. In my area when many of those
We can all have barn cars dagnabbit!!
Exactly. If there are no alternatives to a car, then prices should be regulated. We don't allow other industries that produce necessary goods to gouge like this.
americans talk about how a car makes them "independent" but in reality we're slaves to them
would be real nice to not have to drive everywhere (and thus require shitty crossover sales) but alas
why don't you save for your next car before your last car goes kablooey
And because of the insane prices of New vehicles, used ones are even more insanely priced. People know no one can afford new, so they ask crazy $$ now.
Buy an older car for cash and learn how to work on it. Im 53 and have never paid more than $5K for a car. Usually I spend under $3K. I have driven at least a million Niles in my life and have never ever had a car payment. It isn't that hard to do.
@@12yearssober It is now. It's not 2019 anymore.
@@MysterioTGN
I can still get a car within that budget that is reliable and cheap to maintain.
just bought an 81 BMW 5 series in very good condition for 3500, literally just be patient and look around on marketplace/craigslist there's still good deals
Or even if it's cheap it's been some beater that can be a lemon that requires more work than even DIY John Doe can reasonably fix (like a bad transmission or engine).
Imagine if firearms were the same way as cars. I recently built a custom shotgun on the manufacturer's website and ordered it. Per federal law they can't just mail a gun to your house, it had to go to my nearest licensed firearm dealer which was my local Bass Pro Shops. Imagine if I paid Mossberg $700 for my shotgun, then they mailed it to Bass Pro, and Bass Pro suddenly charged me $1,100 for it.
It's because there's competition, there's probably 5 other FFLs within a few miles and they just want to get you in the door so you'll buy ammo for that new gun. If you could go the Chevy dealer to get a new Ford the markups would disappear just as fast as if you could order manufacturer direct.
@@kuebby Its because you need a car to buy a gun and not the other way around.
Tbf, Bass Pro (and many other dealers) already do that. I've been to so many fucking gun stores where they're not just marked up a little over MSRP which is normal and common depending on region... but like multiple hundreds of dollars over. It's exactly WHY we buy guns online these days, and dealers react by charging obscene transfer fees. It doesn't cost dealers $50 or $100 to transfer a firearm, and asking more than $25-35 is just FFLs exploiting people's requirement to go through them (Especially in states like Oregon with universal background checks. A not entirely unreasonable law from the state that becomes unreasonable because the state does not enforce a reasonable maximum fee, so FFLs charge however much)
Guns are pretty cheap. Shop around and you can easily find deals. Nothing like car Stealerships that work together as a cartel to rob the consumer.
Bro, you lost me at Bass Pro Shops...
To bring in a positive experience, when I bought my BRZ I paid exactly MSRP for it. I walked in to the dealer, said "I want a BRZ" and we had the order done in about an hour. I just picked the trim, transmission, color and options and I got exactly what I wanted.
My dad had a pretty similar experience at Porsche Beachwood. We scheduled an appointment, salesman walked us through the options (there are a lot) and the price on the builder is the price they agreed to. He signed a deposit check and now we wait!
I notice most Subaru dealers are pretty good when it comes to selling at MSRP. I see countless Toyota dealers selling GR86's close to 40k which makes no sense when I can go down the street and pick up a BRZ for MSRP.
As a former car salesman and employee of a Luxury Brand dealership (now an attorney), I can say historically, new car sales were not true money makers for a dealership, if anything, all they served to do was create a stream of vehicles for the Dealership’s service shop, which was the bread and butter income for a dealership.
Used Car sales however were money making enterprises, which is why seasoned salesman usually focused on selling used cars, instead of new cars as it lead to higher commissions.
With extreme supply chain issues of COVID, it created the environment for higher markups & New Car Sales to actually make money for a dealership. Once these profits were discovered, owners of dealerships were not willing to go back to pre-markup practices and we find ourselves in a situation where new cars have bloated in price, and dealerships have gone to terrible lengths to squeeze as much out of consumers as possible.
Exactly this. I also used to work in New sales at a luxury car brand and can confirm. I made great money on used cars but new cars had no margin, only selling for MSRP or often below.
How does financing factor into that for the dealership?
@@walrusaurelius4801 on the new side, especially for luxury, it's not really a big add because most buyers are already pre-qualified with their own top-tier rates. If you had people who wanted to ball out on a new car, esp. younger people who had just come into some money with a promotion or something, they were good candidates for dealer-preferred financing.
On the used side, it's anything goes. Much wider range of credit scores, many more people open to dealer-preferred financing, few people are even aware of their credit or options. We've all been there, and if you're starting from not knowing anything and worried about your ability to even get approved, you'll happily go with a dealer's lender, and the dealer will add some small markup to the rate to make extra revenue in the total financed amount. 🤷
@@walrusaurelius4801Finance Managers typically receive an origination fee for loans approved… Could be flat or percentage based. The higher the loan amount, the higher the fee earned.
It’s not only dealer and service margins that have bloated up, but OEM MSRP’s have skyrocketed and will continue.
The sad part is we can no longer be suckerded into buying at sticker price like Hank Hill.
😂 his special deal 😂
That was a great episode. Poor Hank.
Not a penny more! 😂
I always think of that episode these days. Parody has become reality!
True, if the economy is good and we're making enough money to splurge on stuff, I probably wouldn't mind paying above sticker price. With how things are, I have to be vigilant with the pricing and bring up any hidden fees the person didn't mention.
That King of the Hill episode wont make sense to anyone who isnt old enough to have seen it new, what hank is doing by todays standards is still a dream
What a sucker! Nobody pay sticker price!
Paying sticker price!? That boy ain't right.
I got a guy
Check out an old episode of House Hunters too! Listed for $300,000, negotiated down to $225,000! Now it's listed for $600,000 but you don't get a sniff unless you're offering $750,000. Nuts.
The economy in king of the hill must have been really good for him to pay little attention to what he was spending.
It's straight impossible to find a vehicle in somewhat decent condition and under 100,000 miles for under 16k where I live, it's insane
Do you also live up north?
I had a dealership try to tell me my Honda S2000 was worth $6,000 and I told them Kelly Blue Book said it was at MINIMUM worth $12,000. Then when they tried to sell me a fucking 100k mile Yaris they had the gall to tell me it was worth $9,000 because the appraiser said so. All dealerships can suck it, especially Hgreg
$6k for an s2k is insultingly low
@@Pato-sp2pr It has been a month since that experience and I am still recovering from that lmao. It's honestly just so disrespectful, really showed me how scummy dealers can be
I had a dealership offer me $500 for my “end of life Subaru Impreza”. I told them absolutely not and I sold it in 24 hours for $6k
@@Dailyfiber_98 I guess we learned the hard way why they're referred to as stealerships lmao
My ex bought a car from them down in Orlando and took it back to trade about 8 months later. The car had seen about 2400 miles of driving. Not even enough for an oil change. They gave her half AND SHE TOOK IT.
I dodged a bullet with that one.
Between old JDM cars skyrocketing to new car prices and new car prices skyrocketing to absurd monthly payments. Markup by dealerships. Shops charging mortgage payments on work to get done. The entire car market is in a terrible state and as a lifelong car enthusiast, I call it quits. The cars that I currently have will be my final vehicles that I will be investing money into. I’m going to start putting my money into other things. The good days of being a car enthusiast as long gone.
Cars are no longer about passion… it’s all cash grab now. Sad times
That's why I'm so lucky to have bought my project car pre covid when it was actually affordable
@@stevebuscemi3622 mind if I ask what car is that ?
@@stevebuscemi3622I bought my 2003 Mustang GT just before the COVID madness. Crazy to see how inflated that “value” of my car has become. I would never sell tho.
I’m fortunate enough to own an ‘89 300E Benz straight six with only 350,000 kms. At 62 years I’m pretty sure it’ll be my last car.
Stop being such an overly dramatic teen girl. The market is already correcting. In two years you will get a massive deal on any car. Basic economics can't be ignored for long.
People need to stop buying these damn cars!!!
Financing*. You don't buy it untill it's paid off. It's the banks car until then
@Yeroc357
And by then they have paid even more than what they thought they were going to.
Same with student loans @@12yearssober
Nobody is buying the cars. They are ok selling less cars for more money. The age of cars on American roads is the oldest they have ever been. 12.5 years is now the average age of cars.
To the people who can afford to buy or finance these, you all have the responsibility to say no and help the rest of the people out. Although I can comfortably throw away $800 per month on a shiny pick up, I elected to buy a used $20k pick up. I will not be complacent or contribute to this madness. At least there’s one thing I can control these days.
Back in 2013 I bought a 2006 Mustang GT premium with 38k miles for $14k…today the very same car with more than double the mileage is going for an average asking price of $17k+. The price of used cars is almost as ridiculous as the price of new cars lately
Bidenomics😂
@@Mr.FirebIadeDr.JiIIAIiceCoopernot one thing to do with your incorrect political leanings. It’s pure greed, which plants it roots in your political side.
@@smitty16s "incorrect political leanings" LMFAO
@@Mr.FirebIadeDr.JiIIAIiceCooperstop watching the news you bot
@@Mr.FirebIadeDr.JiIIAIiceCooper i know you live under a popcorn ceiling
Tip #2 is very powerful. I've gotten up to leave and had very quick concessions made for a better deal. On my last used car purchase, I just flat out told them I wasn't going to buy it if they insisted on the unwanted dealer add-ons. They tried to claim there was no negotiation on that...till I said "Okay, I'm gonna keep looking elsewhere"
Suddenly all of them were waived.
"No" is the most powerful sentence we have as buyers (though I feel for those who are in desperate need of a halfway decent car and don't have much leverage)
The biggest headache is that the price FLOOR is going up. I'm trying to get a new rustbucket because my last one died and pre-pandemic, if you wanted 4-wheels, an engine and a guarantee that the car would get you through a few paychecks before needing maintenance, all you needed was $1,500. Nowadays it'll cost you 3x-4x that and be without the guarantee that it'll survive long enough for you to get the money together to maintain it. To make matters worse, alternatives like the bus or rideshares have also gone up so much that it's actually turning out to be more expensive for me to NOT own a car and getting around this way is actually eating into the money I had saved for a new car. This whole economy is just in shambles, dude.
Exactly
One piece of advice I can give is never going to dealership your keys. I had that happen one time when I was younger and they're trying to get me into a really bad deal and I asked him to get my keys back and then they suddenly couldn't find them. It was a whole scam to try to keep me in the dealership to try to pressure me into the deal. I don't mind if they want to check the car out while we're on a test drive but now I tell them it's unlocked. I had one dealership tell me it's their policy to get the key to make sure that it works, I told him it's my policy to never give anyone my key that I don't trust. We ended up not making the deal because they made up a bunch of excuses why they couldn't take the trade in. It's stuff like that that just is stupid and makes you wonder why people don't trust independent dealerships anymore. I really wish we could just buy straight from the manufacturer as it would avoid all that crap. I know not everyone's able to but I know people have gotten very good deals by finding dealerships that would allow them to order the car at MSRP and then pay whatever shipping and delivery fees to avoid all the BS from the dealership. Usually they'll only do that on specialty cars but it's worth a shot if you really need a new car.
I mean devils advocate here, I wouldn’t appraise a car I can’t start and hear the engine run.
If the dealer didn’t give me back my keys I would just call the cops. When I sold cars we never kept the keys to anyones car but we needed it so the manager could take it to the appraiser
Eh, I'd give them the keys. When they're done and I ask for the keys back and they say no, I'd give them 1 chance to return them and then I'd call 911 and report a car theft. Let all the emergency services show up and make their day hell for being con artist
Special ordering a vehicle isn't difficult and anyone can do it. I have half a dozen times in the last thirty years. Especially when I want something specific, like a 2001 XJ Cherokee in gunmetal (silver-blue) that they stopped offering on the Cherokee in 1999, but was still available for Wranglers. I also special ordered a 5-door WRX, Crosstrek when they first came to America, a Forester XT, and several HD trucks for my tree farm. That's how you get the options you want without useless overpriced dealer add-ons like wheel locks, bumper appliques, etc. I also stipulate in the purchase agreement that there will be no dealer or franchise advertising, branding, decal, or logo on the vehicle.
Absolutely. Bring both keys with you, if they want to inspect a trade in. That way you are free to leave (they will magically find your keys as you walk out to your car)
Whenever, they have my keys, I have made a point to ask for them back before doing any negotiations. Full stop.
With so many people paying above sticker for their most recent car purchase, everyone of them is underwater on their loan. So very few can afford to buy new cars. So I hope dealers enjoyed their sugar high, because they're crashing hard now.
i think things are different now. dealers can only increase prices in this climate. i only see 2 options going forward: price hikes or complete market crash.
In many cases you can roll an underwater loan into yet another underwater car loan when you go to buy again. Pure insanity.
It’s not just the dealers. The banks loaned waaaay more than they should have and now they get to ride the aftershock just like the dealers.
Dealers DO NOT CARE!!! They are more interested in making money in warranty and maintenance/repairs and crap breaking engine lights etc.... that's their main course
Dealers are consolidated like every other industry.
The worst part about buying used is that you're stuck with the choices rich people make when buying new.
Such. Bad. Options packages
Lack of oil changes too
Loaded with all the unnecessary gimmicks that will eventually cause issues or stop working and cost an absorbent amount of money to fix.
@@NissanSkyline901 the ideal new car has all the bells and whistles and all the latest tech. The ideal used car has a five speed manual transmission, manual windows, AM/FM radio, and no leaky sunroof.
rich people don’t buy new…
Canada has laws for that. A dealer can't sell a new car for over MSRP. BUT for hot cars like , GR Corolla, Golf R's etc. Dealers just give the keys to the salesman to drive around in for a week , change the title over once , and now its ''USED'' with 300miles and 20k over MSRP. Love to see it.
They do the same shit in the states to not get in trouble with corporate. Still clear as day to what they're doing. 300 miles and a giant mark up. I'd rather pound sand.
If your car needs a repair watch out for shady shops. If you have a shop that sells used cars you have to think where did they get them? I had a car that had a transmission issue. I took it to one of these shady shops and dropped it off. I was quoted $5,400 for transmission and they assured me that it was the only way it was getting fixed. They also gave me a quote to buy my car that had only 80k miles on it.. I immediately took my keys back. I didn't know what to do at that point so as a last resort i wnt elsewere for a transmission flush and fill with filter replacement and my car came back to life. 15k miles later and still running strong. So the first quote i got for a transmission replacement actually lied to me hoping i would just give up the car and sell it to them for parts. I bet they would have done the same fluid flush and sold the car right in the lot. Some mechanics are just crooks these days.
What other industry does this?
** Big Pharma has entered the chat**
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all of them... and when you pull back the curtain and look at the numbers, there is no reason other than pure greed! None of these companies are hurting in the least!
Every electric company in America has taken over the chat
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I just wanna own a new GR86
Every Toyota dealership I checked in FL has almost a 8K markup. I'm not paying almost 40K for an 86 man,
Bidenomics😂
I’ve been trying to get a FR-S for going on 5 years now. Only ones halfway reasonably priced are clapped out, automatics, or 2013s that had valve issues. Sorry bro, not paying $20k for your 10 year old out car that handles great but is underpowered af and I know you and the previous 3 owners have dogged the crap out of.
The one halfway decent one I found in 2022 was at a Kia dealer. The car had been there 4 months. I got an out-the-door price emailed to me the night before for $18,500 and they STILL RAISED THE PRICE ON ME THE NEXT DAY.
He’s right about brand resentment. I will probably never buy a Kia because of that.
@@Mr.FirebIadeDr.JiIIAIiceCooper Living on the other side of the world and still experiencing the same price increases. You americans are something else I swear
@@ileutur6863 Yeah, I'm not sure how what President is in office effects the cost of buying a vehicle. You can make arguments for gas or maintenance, but buying NEW? When all of those cars are XYZ Compliant to hell and back? Nah. This is pure greed. The supply chain issues of COVID became an excuse for every major manufacturer. Even though those times are over, every company acts like it's so challenging to procure parts and build the damn things, as if we haven't done it for 100 years.
@@Mr.FirebIadeDr.JiIIAIiceCooper thinking is too hard. just blame the president
Last dealership I worked for couldn't make quota if they sold every car on the lot. With 22million worth of inventory just sitting. Let them price themselves into oblivion so we can finally just buy direct from the manufacturer.
The average consumer is a moron. They will pay obscene rates, with long terms. Pay wild amounts for warranties, gap insurance, etc. If it fits within a payment they can barely make. This is the vast majority, one paycheck away from all the cards crumbling.
I'm glad dealer markups are illegal in Canada. Even then, dealers here manage to work BS fees into the sale. I was forced to buy a $580 "window etch and wheel lock" package with my new Mazda 6 months ago.
So many people in the comments are saying they'll never buy a new car, but where I live it doesn't make sense to buy used. Used prices are insane (ex. $30,000 for a 2020 RAV-4 with 100,000 km on it), but also cars here rust out in as little as 5 years unless rust protection has been regularly and meticulously tended to, with very few making it past 10 years.
And your username says NS/NB, I'm around Ottawa and the salt = death. Krown treatment every Aug/Sep keeps the frame rails baked in solid oil... I've been dailying a '13 G37xS sedan since Oct 2016, 100-110 km daily commute and 202,400 km on the clock now. Zero body rust, she's still shiny in her black coat.
It's not illegal in Canada. I don't know about your province but there's nothing stopping them from doing it in Ontario.
@@jacquesc3166 Yep, I'm in NB. I had to give up my 2010 Ford Focus due to rust. It was undercoated when new, and when I bought it in 2019 I started getting it Krowned every year, but it was too late. I actually had the rocker panels replaced on it, but the subframe itself was gone.
I chose not to undercoat my new Mazda, and I'm going to get it Krowned every year.
@@Pato-sp2pr Maybe just New Brunswick then.
I have a story similar to the guy and the '92 Oldsmobile. Near my workplace, I spotted this 70s Ford ranchero. I pulled over to take a closer look. Turns out it's rusted up the ass, the paint is withered, and there's literal trash in the cabin. They wanted $5500 for it. $5500 FOR A HUNK OF RUSTED SHIT.
That was last year. It's still sitting there to this day
"No lowballers, no tire kickers I KNOW WHAT I GOT!!!"
You can thank Barrett Jackson for that. Every old car is a classic now and every boomer owner thinks theirs is the only and/or best on the market.
Damn, you sound like exactly like me. I've been searching for a 73-76 Ranchero after COVID hit, and none have been worthy enough to buy without sacrificing your wallet and/or your time to put it back together.
Hope you find a good one soon.
@@nathankim7664 sorry, but rancheros aren't my cup of tea. If I wanted a Ford Ute, I'd either import a falcon or a pursuit
Remember when paying sticker was too much?
The problem was/is ignorant consumers and greedy retailers.
People keep making dumb choices. We had cheap models. The OEMs took them away because not many bought them. The Corolla hybrid is a great car and relatively affordable but it’s market share falls every year as people get the RAV4 or 4Runner
I bought my 2020 f350 dump truck for a lot under MSRP.
Basically, if the MSRP for JUST THE TRUCK was 40k, I paid 45k for the truck, the 10000$ dump bed, and I got a 3500$ rebate/refund so I actually paid like 41500$ for a 50000$ rig.
I did have to drive 1200 miles to get that deal tho.
If we had real freemarket capitalism you could buy a tuk-tuk or a Toyota hilux and have it shipped to your door like a pizza. And there would be a thousand people trying to figure out how to get it to you cheaper
Or a Suzuki Jimny, Toyota hilux champ, Honda E or whatever cool budget import possible. But we are stuck with our freedom being sucked away just like the colors of modern cars just becoming gray.
No no no! Everyone needs to buy big heavy trucks for 80+ thousand dollars for safety!
-US car industry
@@pile_of_trash I love me some of those FreedomTM Tariffs on Chinese EV's because they're simply better than domestic cars, can't be having the poors with affordable good vehicles when there's money to be made for American capitalists
Too much regulations made sure that those thousands of people trying to get it to you cheaper would not exist. They can't compete.
@@aminoacid6177 How's the bootshine taste?
You want a car without crumple zones, air bags and with an engine that will try to fume you to death just for fun?
Along with glue that will give you cancer from the fumes, a steering wheel that's not sturdy enough to keep up with panic movements and instead just buckles etc
Being against regulations is the dumbest possible take, you should be against capitalists, not for them.
Its everything not just cars. Nobody cares about the objective value of something anymore, they just want to squeeze as much money out of the consumer as they can. Just today i saw a sign that said they were selling a bacon egg and cheese for $6.99. Its something i could make for a dollar and could sell for 3.50 at most. Theres so much greed its disgusting
EXACTLY 💯
One time a dealership tried to charge my mom 4 grand for a "120k mile ford escape from like 2007 or whatever", it really had alignment issues, horrendous rust and 250k miles, they litterally lied. We got there and they're like "that's the down price," you actually have to pay a total of $17,000.
Owning a new car will be like taking out a mortgage here soon.
a lot of people are paying more than a mortgage payment for cars they paid WAY too much for during the lockdowns - they figured that they can sleep in their car but you cannot drive your house.... (Eddie Murphy standup)
A good portion of new cars have an msrp close to what my mortgage is. It's ridiculous and why I just keep on fixing my 83 dodge pickup.
It already is. I have neighbors that pay 150-250k for their trucks! Absolute morons. 😂
Because in America, owning a car is necessary to live.
The Federal government will even just give you money through disability benefits if your health conditions render you unable to drive in a manner that is safe to you and everyone around you. Think legally blind and/or deaf.
ford has been wanting to sell direct to customers for awhile now... getting rid of the sales side of dealerships.
the other problem is MSRP is too high also..
They tried with EVs to side-step dealers - it didn't really happen because at the same time dealer per unit profits were sky high and they took that profit to comply with what Ford wanted the dealers to look like and be setup to sell EVs...
You can thank obama and the epa for the crazy msrps. Because the research $ for better gas mileage gets passed on to the consumer. Then all the tech they pack in now is also big $; take out back up cameras, lane keep assist, side curtain airbags, giant touch screens, etc you could get the price way down. But we cant do that because everybodies sue happy these days, gotta be as safe as possible
Now add insane insurance prices
Yeah, my insurance isn't that bad (about 130/month I think) but it went up over 20% on my most recent renewal.
@@kuebby mine went up like 30% this recent renewal 😮💨
This is more of a consequence of the value of cars going up.
Your not paying for your car's worth but the potential wreck you cause to someone else's car
@@kuebby$130 is insanely high.
@@Michael-sb8jfno this is a result of everyone suing for every accident, average settlements and judgements skyrocketing, increased wage costs and increasing medical costs.
You pay much much more for potential injuries with your car insurance than you do to insure the car itself.
The incredible amount of litigation is finally catching up.
Huge loan at low APR on a new car or slightly smaller loan at higher APR on a used car? It’s a NO win situation!
Funnily, in Europe you have super high sticker prices and nearly always get a 10-15 percent discount at the dealership, while in the U.S. you have low sticker prices and pay dealer markups.
The more that time passes the more I regret passing on that Buick wagon . .
Wish I’d never sold my S-10 good lord you’d think old small trucks are made of solid gold
I feel your pain. I'm still kicking myself for passing on a '92 GMC Sierra 1500 that had retrofitted R-134a AC, NO RUST, owned by an elderly gentleman who donated it to a used non-profit car lot, and was listed for only $5k. Plus, the price was negotiable and I know I could've gotten away with it for $4500. That was December, 2022. Can't find a similar one for that kind of money now.
$66k (before paperwork for a Kia is insane.
KIAs are actually nice vehicles now. They’re not 90s Honda civics.
@@the_rush_to_nothing doesn’t matter , the price is still nuts.
@@the_rush_to_nothing They are very maintenance heavy.
@@the_rush_to_nothing lolno
@@nonyabusiness4151 not really
I'm still amazed that all those 100's of thousands of vehicles (mostly full size pickup trucks like F150) built without necessary "chips" and were stored for months and months in open fields were sold as new with higher than MSRP prices. At least when stuff starts failing multiple times the buyer can cite lemon laws and get out of them (hopefully). I told my sales guy at a Ford dealership in 2017 that we'd likely see $100k trucks be almost common place in a few years - he chuckled and then said "you're very likely right". Now a base stripped F150 XL is $40k - IF you can find one...
I laugh when I drive by my local fords and see a lot full of 2023 trucks still sitting. I’d offer 30k for their “60k” trucks just for fun 😂
Usually the government or corpos buy the base trucks en mass. They can get them quite a bit lower than you’ll see them sold to individuals
This is an incredibly important topic, and I’m grateful that you are helping this conversation occur.
what i've seen recently in my friend group is a HUGE push to fix or repair their existing cars, like to an absurd degree, I had a friend pricing out a 3k+ repair on a 16 yr old vehicle because "it would be better for me to sink 3 or 5 grand into this car, that take on 50k+ at the dealership"
and car dealers are REALLY feeling the pinch, car inventories are sitting, and no one is buying cause these cars are overpriced, AND they are not reliable either
I'm considering brand new subframes from 10 years ago subframes, front and rear, overstock from Nissan bought by Z1 in Atlanta, for my 11 year old G sedan with 125K miles on the clock. Never thought I'd be looking at that (ever) when I got the car in Oct 2016.
It is cheaper for me to fix my 04 ford focus than to buy ANY other car. It's sad but welcome to capitalism 😊
Love the Jenny Nicholson Galactic Starcruiser hotel reference! 🩷
As a long time RCR viewer and relatively recent Jenny convert that was a nice little surprise.
I saw this at the end of the 90's beginning of the 2000's with the music industry. They knew the internet would seriously diminish the prices of physical media and they started releasing overpriced CD's of compilations with just one or two new songs, new records with a couple of B-Sides or demos thrown in, redundant live releases... This market still exists but just with very big bands like Pink Floyd or The Beatles and it's rather niche. Back then Napster was just in its infancy and internet wasn't fast or widespread enough and the way to get music was still mainly through physical media. The record companies squeezed every penny out of it and we all turned our backs on them and started downloading music. What will happen with cars in the future I don't know but what car companies are doing now looks very similar to what happened to physical media back then.
Well you can't just download a car, but what they're afraid of is rideshare and people just no longer buying/leasing personal cars because the nwo wants to stop personal ownership of everything
Interesting comment. The difference is these dealers are protected by state law because most, if not all states, require new car sales to be made through authorized dealers and cannot be direct from manufacture. This is how they screw you. They offer zero value but donate so much to politicians that the laws won’t change until the people change them via proposition. Dealers days are numbered.
interesting comparison. one thing is sure, prices will not drop.
Spotify sucks for artists and listeners, yet people complain about price of mobile internet access and at the same time 'please put it in spotify' comment is always around. can someone tell me the logical reason behind that? do they not know phones can perfectly contain music off grid from internet? lazy? no variety/shuffle? Am I so old that I still use cable to transfer music to phone for the cost of time recording to avoid internet noise/ads/cost?
I like this comparison too. The Beatles are sports cars, and Pink Floyd is trucks.
If you look at your local dealer inventories, you'll see they have nothing but expensive pickup trucks and SUV's on the lot. Nobody is buying them because the prices are outrageous. It's not bad everywhere though: After 2 years of looking and 4 years of saving since my last car was paid off, I pulled the trigger on a Ridgeline Trailsport a few weeks ago. I paid $43K, $3K below MSRP and got a fair trade in on my 8 year old Accord. Paid for 1/2, financed the rest at 1.9% for 3 years. If it hadn't been for the color (Diffused Sky Pearl) low APR and incentives, I'd still be driving the old car. I'm glad I was finally able to find something reasonable for my budget that had everything I wanted.
I’m the proud owner of three vehicles bought in the last 2 years, a 2007 BMW 335i, a 2006 Landcruiser Prado turbo diesel, and a 1982 Volvo 244. All purchased for total of $15000 Australian dollars (approx 10k USD).
As long as you can spin a spanner, the car market is ok.
I could not imagine spending my total car purchasing price on a markup on a new Korean economy car.
Great video once again
Each equally great choices. The 335 offers a nice sporty respite from lumbering around in the ‘Prady’ while the Volvo takes up the ambling around just getting things down. 👌 I’m the same.
There certainly are some dealerships out there that are burning through any and all good will with consumers by these gross practices.
I worked at a small family owned dealership for the last 5 years, and the only vehicles they charged over for were Z06 C8 corvettes and final production run ZL1 Camaros. And even that, less than 7,000 usually around 5,000. Nothing else ever received a markup.
The new place that I am currently the Sales Manager at, did not even mark up our Bronco Raptor we just moved.
Capitalism is a pendulum, and many manufacturers are looking for ways to circumvent the traditional dealership experience (or at least go around ones that make the brand look bad with these practices) it will swing back again, and dealerships and brands that allowed this practices will receive what’s coming to them.
If we want a better car industry, we have to do it together.
I will never, ever buy a new car. My friend was a dealer for over 30 years and was nice enough to tell his friends what they were all about. You have to be a fool to buy from a dealer, any dealer. It's their job to rip you off, and some of them are really great at it. Buy used from folks who need the money, most folks sell because of just that reason and you'll be on the good end of the deal most all of the time, just have the patience needed to do that and you'll be golden.
I ran into a dealership owner who told me essentially that the internet has made it so hard to sell cars at a profit because consumers now have a bulk of information which they didn’t have in years past. He said that fees and market adjustments are how you make money, not just by selling cars. He was really resentful of resources that buyers have now.
@@ryanlunde575 It ain't so much fun when the rabbit has a gun too, is it?
@@ryanlunde575Agreed. I can go to my local dealership and show them the next dealership in the town over that’s selling the same car for 0 percent Apr… people just have to be smart on how you shop. DO NOT accept the first deal you get people!
Mmm no i got some good discounts on a 2024 G550 Mercedes and my friend got around 15% off for an Audi S7, sorry if you can only afford shitty cars and know shitty people
The problem with common sense is assuming everyone else has it too
Common sense is more uncommon than we think
@@Visionary_Watcher True.
Common sense isn’t real. You’re taught logic, it doesn’t come to people. It’s a stupid phrase.
I don’t think I want a new car or truck anymore. Planned obsolescence is definitely a thing and the amount of technology they cram in the new cars is absurd and really not needed. Plus the price to fix is outrageous. $1500 for a taillight?! And EVERYTHING breaks. I’ll stick with my Crown Vics that are almost 20 years old yet run amazingly.
Absolutely adore panther body cars. I wouldn't be able to afford to put gas in one at the moment but when I had a grand marquis I was so happy
The Police Departments knew it when they all rushed out to buy every one of the last of the Panther platform cars upon Ford announcing its demise. Modern cars are over complicated electronics wise, and suffer from planned obsolescence as you mentioned. 💔
Better get all you can now because cab companies are buying up what's left.
I thought the 5k dollar F150 tail light was a one off, just talked to my buddy and his 2022 RAV4 tail light is 8k. Gouging manifest.
@@12pentaborane That's insane. I've seen people defend Toyota as having shunned this trend of unfixable disposable vehicles sold for incredible markups but that cannot be true
Thanks!
Remember growing up in the 90's? Being told if, you go to college, get a good job you'll be able to have a family, a house, two cars and take vacations? Well, I fulfilled my end of the social contract, I busted my ass, went to college, got a good job aaaaaaaaannnddd... no house, old ass car, kids are financially impossible, groceries and utilities are eating 3/4 of my budget and vacations are trips to the local park.
Society has failed us, dealerships are just a symptom of the overall problem.
I see you fell for the same Boomer lies as I did. At least we grew up on some good music, unlike kids today.
Bringing the people the news they need. You keep getting better content Roman.
"CAN NOT STOP, WILL NOT STOP" - dealerships
😂 pretty much
Just like their discount brake services.
The economy we have today is no longer companies competing with each other on price to get the customer… it’s about coordinating price increases across the board and raising the price floor everywhere. Why sell a car for less when you can all just sell the car for more everywhere? Seems something is short circuited here. It’s happening from fast food to houses to cars to food. It’s everywhere.
just work harder lol
Literally capitalism
To me this focus on “markups” and “fees” over manufacturer prices totally misses that the MSRP does not reflect any true value, the dealers are the manufacturers’ real customers, and markup is how dealers, like every business is a capitalist society, is seeking to maximize profit. And while it seems nuts to me to have 7 year car loans, cars today last far longer without falling apart than they used to. Modern cars with 100k+ miles can run and look great. My parents on the other hand (boomers vs me, a millennial) tell me it used to be that cars would fall apart after 100k miles and that just isn’t the case anymore (with Japanese brands at least). So it makes sense to pay more for something that holds its utility and value for much longer.
You definitely have to look around, the nearest Ford dealership to me wants $40k for base model Ecoboost Mustangs but a dealer 50 miles away is listing them at MSRP of around $30k~
Price gouging is the new economy , cars wil be for the upperclass only soon enough
More proof that cars were always a luxury and always pushed by the upper class to ratify THEIR mobility.
Bidenomics😂
@@Mr.FirebIadeDr.JiIIAIiceCooperyou literally didn’t watch the video 😭
@@Mr.FirebIadeDr.JiIIAIiceCooper more like the top 2% of the US control 60 something % of the capital wtf do old men in a white house have anything to do with that ?
Only new cars will be for the upper class. Middle class will be buying used ones. And Lower class will either be driving clapped out shitboxes or taking the bus or walking.
No one else in the comment section is saying it so I will. I used to be an automotive tech and I can tell you right now that vehicles have become very complicated, over engineered monstrosities the past decade. When I would plug in a diagnostic tool I would read up to 32 different computer modules. Do we really need all this insane luxury to get from point A to point B?
I got super lucky with my car in 2019. 99 Saab 9-5 with 125k~ miles, single owner, every single last bit of repair paperwork, C L E A N as hell, and a 5 speed manual. For $2000. In Santa Barbara, California. 197k miles now and still going strong. I might cry if it ever gets so worn out that I can't fix it.
I have never bought a new car. My family could afford it but I was the black sheep, so I was given and bought a lot of beaters like my 1995 Honda Accord (Lasted me for 10 years), then a Honda Civic 2006 (Lasts me until now). These cars were cheap to buy (but they still did cost like what 3-4 grand used + repairs). For me, this was economical, but buying a new car was something I could have reached for ... at least with the prices being what they were prior.
I think I remember seeing a Honda Civic for like ..15 grand or something? 20? I could maybe reason with that.
But ... these past years have been insane. Anyone who isn't rich, to be honest, is priced out of a new car. THat means the used market is getting wrung like a rag. I settled for a motorcycle and I love it, but most people need to .. carry people, and cargo, and live the life that America has planned for them in the car centric vibe. WHo the hell is able to justify these dealer markups? It just eels like greet...
You are incredible, Roman. Thank you for your insight and common sense. You make the world a better place.
He didn’t even touch on one of the biggest issues with new cars- quality control.
I have never seen so many cars from so many manufacturers (all of them in fact ) that are blatantly lemons from the factory.
No fluid in differential, transmission, transfer case, etc. bad paint, hell NO paint on some panels.
Missing parts. Bad parts
The list goes on.
Even Toyota is doing it.
I’m shopping for a new vehicle this summer and finally am making enough to afford a new car. But I refuse to buy anything made after 2020. I’m just going to look for low mileage 18-20 vehicles.
Shit, even used vehicles that might be within our price range are coming out as lemons because the used dealers are buying whatever at auction to fill space regardless if it's questionable quality or not.
@@Trekpanther Even the buy here pay here lots are getting INSANE. Went to one seen a early 00s Lexus they wanted like 10 GRAND for it. Are these people on dope? i didn't even botther asking i knew i'd get tha oh its a lexus it will run forever blah blah blah
The new Tundra V6 is fundamentally flawed. It’s a straight up bad engine. Never thought I’d see the day I’d prefer a BMW I6 for reliability
$100,000 for a normal domestically made vehicle. Fuck that.
I've got a story too. Made a deal with Honda of Denton, TX, over the phone, to purchase a '22 CRV. They had my daughter do a credit app and did run her credit. THEN they hit us with $8,000 in BS magic air in tires, window tint, blessing from a local priest, etc., etc. I told them to F off and I will never do business with them again. The dealership model needs to end. Nothing but crooks.
So much wrong going on today in the car market. Everything from greedy dealers to financially illiterate consumers to unaccountable manufacturers to lax government regulations make this one of the worst times to buy a car EVER.
This gets even more insane when you factor in depreciation. There's no bigger waste of money than a new vehicle.
making a combined income of over $150k and buying a new car is never going to be an option for us at this rate. Bought used ones with 100k+ miles all my life and thought it'd be over by now. My parents had brand new cars/trucks working basic jobs in the 70s-80s. With not being able to find a home for less than $300k and rent doubling over the past couple years, something has to give in this economy
Might I ask where you reside?
The main problem IMO is that we aren't allowed to be simple.
Most people COULD afford a 90s civic or 90s ford ranger if they were made today with todays manufacturing, but because all cars now have to be awd, have a shit ton of electronics, it wont be.
Most people could afford to build a tiny house, but it's illegal in most areas.
We aren't allowed to be simple. Therefore none of the advancea we make actually matter for our time input.
What's the point of being more efficient if you just translate that efficiency into bigger cars, bigger houses, etc? You don't actually reap the benefits.
Sure your ride might be slightly comfier at first, maybe you get shinier plastics, but it doesn't translate into actual value.
The only way to reap the value of todays world is to be a minimalist and go as simple as possible, which in the usa is made incredibly hard.
In places like tokyo it's possible to be basically homeless but still live a high quality life, you don't "need" an apartment because they have so many hotel options, you don't "need" a car because their transportation system is excellent.
In the USA it will continue to be a rat race because that's just how the design works. Everyone will be fighting for their piece of cheese.
Worked in finance for one of the worlds largest car manufacturing groups, drive a late 90s Camry. I don't pretend to know everything about the global market but until we get a severe recession where I live I can't see any slack developing in the market that would motivate a swing towards more reasonable pricing.
We just cannot really build enough cars to meet demand, there is definitely market share in the table and I think that's why your starting to see Chinese manufacturers (MG, BYD etc.) move in.
how can that be? There are entire lots of cars just sitting all across the country.. the supply is there, its just all the stakeholders are trying to profit 50-300% more so the end consumer is faced with prices they just won't pay.... and so, the chinese will move in to the 10-25k market, while all the brands that had cars for 15-25k are now 35-50k... lmaoooo
"The dealership needs to get their spoon in the chili." Brilliant
Nobody is helping the dealer when they have bills to pay, and if you’re dumb enough to pay a markup, they’d be fools if they didn’t take the money. That said, take your business elsewhere, that’s the ultimate advantage the consumer has.
Probably one of if not the best videos on this subject on UA-cam.
Luxury watch authorized dealers and unauthorized resellers can be pretty bad.
I’m a firm believer in buying $3k-$5k cars. I’m reasonably handy, and can fix most small items. Like your Camry, just give me something that works, plain vanilla, and reliable and I’m happy.
I've also come into that mindset. Driving is an utterly miserable experience these days, well it is in my country. I'm already getting screwed on insurance, fuel prices and car taxes, I'll be damned if I'm going to get screwed by a dealership on top of that.
Exactly!!!! I've done that all of my life. I'm 53 and have never made a car payment.
@@12yearssober I just bought at 2014 Vauxhall Insignia (Buick Regal in the US). 64k miles for £3500. Granted I knew it needed a new thermostat housing, wheel hub and new tires but I've done those so hopefully years of trouble free and payment free driving
"beats walking"
Problem is the a-holes got wise to this and now require subscriptions for repair firmware that are given to dealer techs and licensed to out of network shops. What used to be simple plug and play repair and replacements now require "calibration" and "syncing" right to repair reform is more relevant than ever.
I've said it once I'll say it again;
I'm keeping my 40 year old Chrysler and my 26 year old 321,xxx mile lincoln, thanx
also thanks for this report, roman! love these videos
I think this may be the best Roman Report video to date. Keep up the excellent work! You should plan out a follow up video for sometime in the future to revisit this topic
While I despise the dealers that impose these ridiculous markups, the people who pay these markups are indeed impatient, entitled, and willing to burn money. The buyers are effectively setting money on fire as they are very unlikely to every recoup or appreciate it. These buyers are enablers. i.e. Pablo Escobar would have had to find a different product if shmucks hadn't continued buying his product.
This is somehow relevant to me in Thailand as well, dealership has markups, not absurd amount like in the US, but it's there, yet I was not able to pay for new car.
So my only choice was buying a used car, its repair cost and high fuel consumption from its age using old tech is still cheaper per km per month for me than buying cheapest new car.
Unless you're buying a carbureted car, fuel mileage in many older cars from the 90s to now is just as good or better than many modern cars. Sure, a hybrid will generally beat an ICE car, but a turbo diesel will have even better gas mileage than those and older cars were both fuel efficient and much smaller and lighter, meaning the fuel economy standards on ICE cars have virtually stagnated for 20+ years. So buy one in confidence that it will get you similar fuel economy.
You don’t think that your dollar being worth 22% less than what it was in 2019 has anything to do with it?
Buying a car is fucking annoying. It should not be this annoying.
For me, a sibling in 2021 who does not know about cars get basically scammed with a $20k, TERRIBLE SMELLING(had to tear everything out as there was carpet mold) 50k mileage 2018 Mirage g4 with missing panels at a dealership.
Excellent report, sir. Outstanding.
My thoughts: 1) Clearly, many or most dealerships are short-sighted, looking for quick profits and let tomorrow "take care of itself", whatever that means. 2) The automakers are not helping, as they are pricing - without markups - at ridiculously high levels to begin with. When the median price of a Ford, GMC or Ram pickup truck is over $60,000 without regard to options and before markups, that's a problem. 3) Consumers are not as stupid as dealers want them to be. The longer this continues, the angrier the customer will be. There are a whole lot of new Dodge posts almost every day on youtube that are expressing anger and rage over what they are doing. 4) Dealerships, increasingly, are oligopolies, which makes the situation worse. Until 5) a new way to buy that avoids all that - that can be trusted and works - comes along and disrupts everything. And then the game is over.
As you said, Tesla, Lucid and Rivian are doing that now. When a "legacy" automaker does that, that may make serious waves. Like Uber vs. the old taxi industry did.
Thank you.
I have never had enough money to even consider buying a car brand new. I thought buying used was a nightmare but this takes the cake and farts on it.
Nah man I can’t imagine a worse “investment” than a new vehicle. This is why I drive a 2003 Toyota Corolla I bought for 3 grand cash back in 2020. Runs like a clock. And I’m a master technician so it’s taken very well care of. I’d rather put my money into my savings for a down payment in a house instead of a car payment.
20:50 That zoom and hold was very deliberate 😆
Well done, as usual. Thanks Roman.
Maybe it is just because I am getting old and slowly turning into a WWII era grandpa, but not only do I think new cars are grossly overpriced, I think the styling is particularly terrible these days … like, even worse than mid-to-late 1970s American car ugly! On top of all that, I have absolutely no desire to learn how to operate all the useless electronic features that are forced on you when purchasing any new car today! My kingdom for “needles and knobs”! Why would I want to grossly overpay for something I don’t like and don’t want to go back to college to learn to use? And … don’t get me started on EVs!
The only “chip shortage” that worries me are of the chocolate variety!
Now, get off my lawn!