When is a Clan Connection Too Vague?
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- Опубліковано 8 тра 2019
- If your great- great- great-grandmother was a Campbell...are you a Campbell?
When does clan association become so loose and vague that it really doesn't matter anymore?
Can you still wear the clan tartan even if you are not a patrilineal descendant of the clan?
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My first kilt was a McKenzie, of which I have no relation to. I wore it last year to our local Scottish Festival, and ended up talking to some of the folk of Clan McKenzie at their tent. I mentioned that I wasn’t a McKenzie, and they said “well, consider yourself adopted!”
Nice response !
Most clans say swearing loyalty to the chief and clan makes you one of them
Great comment! Most clan folks are delighted you would honor them with their tartan. One of the tartans I love to wear is MacLaren, due to the Scouting connections. I am also a member of Clan MacLaren through Scouting, even though I am not a MacLaren descendant.
@@timf162 A number of Christmases ago my parents bought me a MacLean of Duart modern scarf (the very same bright red one in my profile picture.) Maclean is my first name and this scarf is honestly my favorite article of clothing that I own even though I'm not descended from the clan. Both my father's grandmothers had Scottish maiden names though (one was a MacKenzie, the other a Ross.) My mom has Donaldsons in her tree too so I still feel a nice connection to Scotland in that respect. Also I just love the culture/tartans in general TBH.
I have been wearing the Gordon tartan all over Scotland and i met a Gordon in Edinburgh and she was ok with it.
Now i generally wear the Heritage Of Scotland tartan though.
I am toying with the thought of getting a Co Cork Irish tartan since i have been living there.
Otherwise the Swedish national tartan or the city of Gothenburg tartan would be most natural for me i guess.
Native Scotsman here. I really enjoy your videos! it’s very interesting to hear your take on Scottish culture. I’m always interested to see what tartan you’re both wearing. Perhaps you could introduce these as a standing item at the start of your videos?
Having watched this, I wanted to share some of my own thoughts, largely in support of personal preference.
There’s a saying in Scotland that you should wear your mother’s tartan because you can never quite be sure of who your father is!
Many people I meet don’t own their kilts, so they’ll wear whatever tartan they like from the modest selection available to hire. A kilt is a rare event and few people are able to recognise all but the most common tartans by sight. As a consequence, you can generally expect to be asked which tartan you’re wearing. I’ve found that it’s actually quite a rare occurrence that someone will be wearing their ‘own’ tartan. People are genuinely interested to find out the name of the tartan; but especially so if you have some sort of personal connection with it. As you say, people tend to be innterested in the narrative that goes with it, so saying that you chose Isle of Skye because it’s a beautiful tartan and you really enjoyed visiting there during your last vacation becomes a conversation starter at social events.
Perhaps having a tartan which corresponds with your family name is more important to global Scots because it’s considered to be proof of lineage. Some tartans are nicer than others, so even when people do have their own kilts, many would prefer to wear a tartan they like, rather than feel compelled to wear something they don’t.
My first kilt was Lindsay after my mother, but I recently had a Thomson modern kilt made which is my own surname. I live in Lanarkshire, where almost all of my earliest-known ancestors lived 300 years ago (I’m not as ‘small-minded’ as that might suggest!). It is worth considering that whilst I can trace my Thomson lineage back over 3 centuries, the Thomson tartan was only designed in 1965! Most people are surprised to learn that the majority of tartans as we know them are of relatively modern design. The Thomson tartan doesn’t necessarily connect me to my family history in the same way as the Lindsay which is comparatively older, but the kilt is a traditional garment and evokes a certain sense of heritage anyway, regardless of the tartan. For anyone interested, you can research the origins of individual tartan designs at www.tartanregister.gov.uk.
I’m fortunate, I have over 25 family tartans represented within my family tree (I counted over 60 from one mill alone if you include all the ‘hunting’, ‘muted’, ‘ancient’ etc. derivatives). There are a couple of regimental tartans (Black Watch, MacKenzie) belonging to ancestors who were part of Scottish Regiments during first and second World Wars. There’s also a South Lanarkshire tartan where I live and work and even the football (soccer) team I support has their own tartan. It would be entirely acceptable for me to wear any of the above, although naturally I have a preference for some over others. I was actually thinking of having a kilt made in Ancient Logan (my paternal grandfather’s mother’s name) because I liked the tartan so much and it’s different to the others I currently own.
The idea of clans and their affiliates is interesting, but sometimes strikes me as a wee bit of a fallacy unless you can be certain of a link between your family and a particular clan. Ballantyne is a Scottish name within my own tree, first recorded in Lanarkshire during ancient times (no tartan). It’s reportedly a sept of Stuart of Bute (Argyll) following a bond signed in 1547, so I could probably wear SOB, however my own family has no connection to Argyll and it seems likely that Stuart of Bute as we know it, didn’t come along until at least a couple of hundred years later. The earliest known tartans were more like checked cloth (See ‘Falkirk’ or ‘Shepherd’ tartan for the earliest example) and were more likely to reflect regional affiliations by virtue of the natural materials available for dying fabric within a given area.
In summary, I’d say the general message from the Old World is to wear something that you feel is authentic to you - even if only because you like the colours. If it’s important to you to reflect your heritage, then do your family history research - it’s unlikely that you’ll only have one surname to choose from. Think genetically! You may well be known as (surname), but four generations ago, that surname represented approximately only 1/16th of your genetic heritage (there’s a degree of randomness in the genetic mutations, but you get the idea!) Honour your ancestors! If you are, or were close to someone, a friend or relative, who wears or wore a particular tartan, then you might want to wear the same. Research tartans and their designs. If you can’t find a family tartan that you like, consider connections to districts, military, your sports team, or go for the Scottish National Tartan. It can be an expression of your individuality, or your belonging.It’s Avery personal thing, so your time, the journey can only add to your own narrative and further your own enjoyment of wearing the kilt!
Thank you. I very much appreciate you relating your point of view and knowledge.
Well said Craig, thanks for taking the time for sharing. God bless Rob
A friend of mine who is not Scottish wears the Tartan of his wife’s clan who is Scottish. I think as long as you wear what ever Tartan you do so with respect!
"Respect" the operative word!!!
You can wear ANY tartan you like, enjoy.
As a scotsman, it amazes me how seriously americans take this and feel sometimes their connections to scotland are almost forced. Ive seen people online say they are 7% scottish. If that were me id be more interested in the other 93%
Honestly, I think we Americans are just trying to find a place to fit in, like a group or club. Also, this might boost people's egos. Besides that, the Scottish historical culture is super interesting as a novel item since we haven't grown up with it. (Side note; this fascination is pretty similar to say African Americans or Asian Americans, I think its just an American thing lolol)
American heritage is a whole complex web of scattered connections. There usually isn't another 93%, it's 20% this, 10% that, etc... I think many Americans look for any solid roots they might find. Any connection to their family beyond the vague melting pot that is America.
I think learning and fostering an interest in other cultures is part of the culture of America.
@@athollmoray no one says only people if color matter. The fact of being white doesn't matter. Being proud of your cultural heritage is fine. I am almost 100% Swiss and proud of it, but having beige skin doesn't matter to me.
@@TheGuul667 yes, im more interested in the history. Alot of what people think they know of scotland is made up a creation of 1800s romanticism. The idea of lowlanders wearing kilts for instance if you look when many of these tartans were registered. The idea there are lowland clans, it was an act if parliment in 1590s to give lowland lords the same powers as highland chiefs, it never worked and had nothing in common with highland families. It gets tiring when many people cant tell the difference between fact and fiction or are prepared to look for the answers. Ive had americans get angry when ive tried to explain it all because they want to believe they ran around in kilts killing english, waving their claymores, speaking gaelic in these big massive clans, because back home they have clan associations. Draining
As a Scotsman I can tell you. If you like the look of the tartan and you feel good in it, wear it. My Mum bought me a Forbes kilt when I was about 10 , it was second hand, and I liked it
My Dad abandoned me to be honest, but still proud of my Grandfather and clan history.
Don't let one guy take away your genealogical pride. A lot happened in the 20th century that damaged families and created men that weren't able to be in the family. If you'd been born 100 years earlier, he may not have left you.Also, I guarantee your dad had good qualities that you inherited. My dad was a terrible drunk but he was wicked smart and funny.
Women changed. Men didn't. It's not his fault.
@@stickemuppunkitsthefunlovi4733 he beat us and used drugs. It is his fault
@@healer246 suck it up cup cake. He made you who you are. Id of named you sue aswel.
Who cares, you have the blood of these people running through you, regardless of the piece of crap your father was... Also, i completely disagree with the guy saying you wear your mothers if your father left, this guy seems quite a bit "new age" in his thinking... im sure many sons and daughters have lost or been left by their fathers throughout the almost 1000 year history of scotland, non of that changes the Pride and appreciation for the clan from which they hail.
I have no true blood claim to a Clan tartan but my Stepfather and his father both served with the blackwatch and on my 21st birthday he presented me a blackwatch kilt and at that time i was living in Australia , 25 yrs ago i moved to Scotland bringing my kilt with me and was concerned wether i could wear it here or not . I checked with the blackwatch guards and was told to wear it with honour and pride of which i do . i have also been informed that you are free to wear any tartan you wish except a royal tartan .
Yes it's the same as wearing your parents/grandparents medals but you wear them on the right breast and not the left as soldiers/vets do. (In the UK that is)
Yes there are some tartans , I think Balmoral is one, they not only are registered but trademarked or patented, so you can't even buy the material to maker a kilt (at least not where the trademark is respected).
@@LesliePiper
The design is copyright; but those are just the royals wanting exclusive sales in their gift shops.
@@LesliePiper wha'd wear that shite anyway
Having being born and grew up in Scotland. The simple answer is wear whatever tartan you feel comfortable. At the moment tartans are not in vogue and tweed kilts seem to be more popular. I wear Douglas but have wore government tartan(black watch) isle of sky and help for heroes. There is no kilt police.
“You’re writing your own life story, so you decide what you want to wear, nobody else.” So well put, Rocky. Should be a motto for life in general!
My father's family comes from County Kildare in Ireland and my mother's family is Scottish (Clan Lamont). Both families have been in America as far back as before the American Revolution. I wear the Clan Lamont tartan and on my visits to Scotland I have been happily accepted by my distant Clan Lamont relatives. I am equally happily accepted by my distant Irish relatives on my visits to Ireland.
My closest Scottish lineage is a few generations back, and even then not solid (as in Davis could be Scottish: Davidson/MacDhai or Welsh: Davies/Dafys). My paternal grandmother's maiden name was Clark, though it's confirmed that was definitely Co. Cork Irish (from Cleary/Cleirigh). However, both the Clan MacPherson Association and the Clan Davidson Society of North America were eager to accept my membership. I suspect this would be the same for any clan association or Scottish society because more members means more revenue to help keep them going. That said, you don't have to be Scottish to wear a kilt. There are plenty of universal tartans and others that you could still find something to wear. And if you're full-blood Lithuanian and want to join the Clan MacLeod Society USA because you love the film Highlander, I'm sure they will be happy to take your money and send you a newsletter. Sláinte!
An interesting video would be you two going through the kilts you personally own, and explaining their tartan affiliations and why you choose them. Possibly any tartans you intentionally don’t wear as well.
Funny enough, my Grandmother (my dad’s mom) is a McKay and, to me, I’m not so comfortable wearing a McKay tartan because I’m a generation removed. I do, however, wear a McKay clan pin in her honor. But to be clear, I do not begrudge anyone that have those “loose” connections who wear clan tartans.
As a Mackay, I would be happy to see anyone wearing Mackay tartan, for whatever reason.
I love these guys’ energy
As a Scot I choose my tartans for aesthetic reasons. I wear those that I feel look good and anyone who does otherwise is a dafty.
My clan affiliation is fairly vague. My dads grandmother was an Adams (born in the UK). Adams is a sept of the clan Gordon and, based on my grandfathers interest in Scottish culture, we assume that was a major part of his identity. When I contacted the local representative of the House of Gordon USA I very much got the “great to have you on board!” treatment and have continued to as I meet more folks at games and festivals. I am therefore very proud to wear the Gordon tartan.
I love the Gordons. Bydand!
Same for me, also Adams.
When I went to see the Black watch and Argyle and Sutherland Pipes and Drums, one of those units wore the Royal Stewart tartan.
You should post in the video description what tartans you wear each time, for the inquiring minds.
I think it makes sense to wear the Tartan of the clan you can find in your family, the closest from your father's side, or if not, then mother's side. No mother how far it goes in ypur family history: if you find any, that's it. There might be a guy who's have Black African, or from Far-East Asia, who's half Highlander - but doesn't even speak English or let alone Scottish Gaelic, and there could be a guy with a fragment of Scottish blood from the 17th century, but he has red hair, blue eyes, and might speak with a Loch Lomond accent. Both are Scottish to an extent.
And a good example also from Scotland, that being abandoned by your father, you affiliate to your mother's clan then. That's what at least subconsciously happens to anyone abandoned, Highlander or not. If he's not there for you, but your mother's side is, you will more likely find father models in your mother's family.
Besides, I believe in the end we all come from Adam and Eve, even genetically researched, they speak of that. So we're all related. Few changes down the road, but here we are, you hear.
I have morrison from my dads mothers side , Adam - Gordon from my dads father, Wright from my mothers mother - Macintyre , and Buckie from my mothers father. Being Scottish you dont get offered much in terms of learning your history in school. When I was wee , we learned one gaelic song , and learned only of the clearances and that was it , nothing of the clans or their tartans. Im glad there are people all over the world supporting scottish culture and our shared heritage. Anyone who wishes to join in then ceud mìle fàilte
I'm of Hallyards who are a sept of Skene. I also wear other tartans for other family relations, Black Watch, Stewart and U.S. Marine "Leatherneck" for family members who served.
My great-grandmother's maiden name was MccLellean, a variant of MacLellan. I don't have a MacLellan kilt (yet) but I do wear the MacLellan badge.
My name has no tartan, but the men married plenty of Gordon and Lindsay women in the west of Scotland. I feel like I'd be comfortable wearing either of those, but I'd like to design my own to honor over 600yrs of written family history.
I have been wearing a utility kilt for a while now but wanted a tartan, but I was not sure how to go about it, but I just found out that my Irish grandfather is actually Scottish and his mother’s maiden name is Mary Blanche Gunn 1874-1959 So this really helps because The Gunn Clan comes from my mother side. Thanks
As an American and living in a melting pot, I find it can feel hard to find grounding to who you are are where you come from, to find some sense of identity. So for me, my genealogy has always fascinated me. Genetically, I am 94% Scotch/Irish. But whats even more fascinating to me is how clan affiliation can change over the years based on geography. Just on the patrilineal branch of my family tree, I have several generations of ancestors the were born in the castle that has been the seat of Clan Rose since it was built. Then the family moved and one man became a laird over some of Clan MacDuff's lands. Then the family moves to Ireland and becomes affiliated with Clan MacDonnell of Antrim. I never knew clan affiliation could change like that. It fascinates me.
Well, I would feel relatively comfortable wearing Kilgore or MacDuff tartan, as those were the clans of my great grandparents and grandmother, but not at a clan gathering or event. My grandfather and mother's clan is Donald, so I wear that. My dad is all English and Mississippian so I use my mother's.
In Scotland, we have a saying: "We're all Jock Tamsen's Bairns!" Meaning we're all someone's child - if you have that clan's blood within you, you can wear that tartan proudly! It's more a ceremony, these days and we're very much 'Come one, come ALL!'
My Maiden name is Prentice, however that tartan is not one I'd wear, but my Father's Mother was Virtue and my Grandfather's Mother was Cowan - I can wear either.
This issue puzzles me so much because it operates on blood line assumption of relation to the clans. With any group in history, lots of groups adopt members into their society by way of marriage/ fraternity/paternity/maternity/close Association or operation within their social/political/economic structures. From how I understand it, Clans had to some extent a blood lineage that determined rightful ruling of the clan. This can also be debated as clans would rule on who's chief despite no blood ties. But that would mean lots of people would not belong to a clan by right of blood. If we want to debate it further disregarding blood rights, individuals within clan lands would not have direct blood relations to Clan Chieftains. They would be individuals under the protection of name of the clan and bear the name of the clan, but bear no strong blood ties. So you could argue in modern times, that with no association by blood, but you work in close community relations with your local Mackenzie clan, you by association of friendships and colleagues, or marriage, could make a claim to being a Mackenzie, and they could make claim to YOU as being a Mackenzie. Clans as I understand them from a historical point of view, were a group of association and loyalty, not necessarily direct blood ties. Lots of clans don't even have celtic ties when they were established. Fraser of Lovat is one clan that's easy to pick on having French origins. So uh, I say don't worry. If you have strong ties or associations or loyalty to a clan but no blood, it really doesn't matter. If they wanna adopt you, congratulations you're now a clan member, snooty old blood line cops be damned!
Well said JJ H.
With me, I’ve always know I had Irish blood. My maternal grandpa was half Irish half Hungarian and mom was always proud of it. Going further and further back in my dad’s family I found relation to Anne Hutchinson (nee Marbury) and there was an explosion of new places. She descends from medieval royals, the last being Edward I of England. So through that, the first Scottish family name I found was Dunkeld. I was happy to find it, and a few generations down I found Comyn. But part of me has felt weird about wearing a Scottish tartan since Elizabeth Comyn died around 1372 and Matilda of Scotland died around 1118. I don’t know, I get nervous about it given the last Scottish connection I have is over 500 years old when people have much closer connections than I do
I'm A Mackay (Mack,Aye) there's an encyclopedia to be written on spellings/pronunciations and reasons for them. The same with modern Tartans, but if you feel Your cultural link is too tenuous, adopt a military/sporting Tartan, SRU/SFA being the first that come to mind. Re; Patriarch/Matriarch, Clan names are Masculine but there's never been a shortage of strong Women to take control when needed! My own oral history, Andrew, a giant, Great-Great Grandparent is laying down the Law at the head of the table, when He's finished, His 4'8" Wife replies, "Aye Andrew, You're The Head of The House right enough, but I'm The Neck. And The Neck will turn The head any way It wants."
I grew up with 4 old Women, 2 Spinsters and 2 that had buried 2 infants and a husband each, all from the 1890's, lived almost a hundred years each. They All had spines of Diamond and an inner hardness with compassion that I've not seen since (I'm 60). Aside from all the standard catastrophies of WW1, the rich property owners heaved up rent which led to The Women starting The Rent Strike, which was eventually upheld/rescinded by Parliament. IF You have enough Scottish Blood, You DGAF what anybody says! 👍❤️🏴! Saor Alba! ❤️🏴!
My father's family isn't Scottish at all, and if they have any Celtic connection, it's centuries back and loosely connected to Ireland somehow. My mother's maiden name is Harris (or Heriz or Herries), a sept of Clan Maxwell. I'm planning to buy a 5-yard wool Maxwell kilt when I have the scratch, but it's a major investment because I don't make a lot of money on my own.
I just checked the Clan Chattan site and this is what they say about who can join:
"All persons bearing the name of and/or being descended from any of the Clans or Septs of Clan Chattan.
Persons married to descendants.
Persons having historical connections with Clan Chattan country.
Persons who are deemed to display an interest in the Association and its objects."
Thank you for this video. I am third generation (my dads grandfather came to Australia). I am trying to learn about tartans and the traditions. Is there a way to track down family tartan patterns? My great grandmother knitted my family tartan for my dad and it is in my care (my dad is still alive). All I know is that my family is from the Glengarry clan
I’m from Scotland and just some of my line are Duncan, MacDonald, Scott and Stewart. Spoilt for choice, I like the Duncan and some of the MacDonald tartans.
Doing some research and genealogy, I came to find out the last 3 generations of my family have had a family name that isn't really ours by genetics. My great grandfather was adopted by a couple who found him abandoned by his singular father. So I traced the name and lineage, and found that our family is very old, and the family is large and claimed as a sept of 3 different clans; MacDougall, Colquhoun, and Lindsay. Turning even further back, my ancestors were some of the first to rule parts of Dál Riata. One of our first in North America was a kilted pirate who had a thing for trashing English trading posts from the colonies to the gulf of Mexico. I am desperately looking for a company to make a kilt with my family tartan, but haven't found one yet.
I checked our sources and can confirm that McLintock is a sept of MacDougall (not sure about the other 2, but it is possible). We have MacDougall on our website here: www.usakilts.com/gallery/13-16-oz-wool?keywords=McLintock
We can also do Lindsay or Colquhoun as well!
Hello fellow MacDougall!
@@USAKiltsOfficial
I think they might be referring to the MacLintock tartan, STA ref: 881. If it's a special weave, I know you guys can get it done but it would cost a bit more. :D
@@USAKiltsOfficial thank you!
As kids we were looking at my dad's book of clans...the tartans, crests...coats of arms.
The history...the drawings...Very exciting! My friend couldn't find his Clan or Sept though...
his last name is Katzman.
isnt katzman a hebrew name?
@@nigel3inch969 Yes.
Like many mutts, my goal with my few tartans is to honor as much of my life as I can. There's some family history i don't know or is hard to find, so I back as far as possible in research. I traced the Irish side to Sligo county, and settled on it. Scottish sides been trickier. Its been fun helping other research too.
My family is a sept of MacLeod of Dunvegan and I have the tartan tattooed on my forearm.
My maiden name is Drummonds. Family lore is that sometime, possibly our civil war, or further back, someone added the s to differentiate relatives with same name. I have the Drummond tartan and years ago my dad had found out the clan symbol. My husband is a Maxwell, so he has his tartan. I do like the Drummond tartan better than Maxwell. It's more colorful and has more character in my opinion.
My wife is a Watt, which is a sept of Buchanan. It's what I wear now.
I have a bit of an affinity to asymmetrical setts like Buchanan and MacMillan as they're not nearly as common as symmetrical setts. I even modeled my first design off of that concept. It's registered at Federation of Circles and Solitaries.
Considering that "Clan Tartans" were an invention of 19th century romanticism perpetuated (and often perpetrated) by the Scottish weaving industry ... what does it all really mean? For instance, that map of "clans" and by association "their" tartans covers the whole of Scotland, which is a historical nonsense in terms of the Clan system.
Also, the Clan system was (and I emphasise "was") an early modern development in parts of Scotland and is not some "celtic" inheritance.
Wear Kilts by all means (another relatively recent invention historically), but this pretence that "Clan tartans" actually existed, or meant anything real when they were invented in the 19th century and onwards, is just marketing guff.
It is pretty much, as you said, an invention of the 19th Century, however it kind of makes a bit of sense. The tartan varied from palce depending on the available plant dyes. Hence, people under the same clan (formed due to loyalty bonds, not always kinship) would live in the same area to each other and have similar tartans. Although, we must remember clans weren't static, they were constantly moving places and connections. The modern day kilt is a recent invention, as the wording suggests, but the actual Great Kilt, does have more elderly roots.
I, like someone else I could mention, have a German last name, but in my family there is a tradition of the oldest male getting the patronymic middle name Davis from an ancestor many generations back. Clan Davidson Society of North America welcomed me with open arms and I started wearing the Davidson tartan. I've since traced the family tree back farther and found out our Davises were Welsh. I still wear Davidson and have met some really great people through the CDS-NA and nobody has ever demanded to see my bona fides. (I also have now joined Clan MacThomas from a closer clan connection on my mother's side and wear it as well and I'm working on getting a Chattan)
Well, hallo there, clansman! Same with me on the Davis/Davidson thing, though we haven't confirmed our Davis origins. I haven't joined the Society yet, mostly because they don't have a chapter in Michigan, but I do wear the tartan. :D
some areas of Scotland were once territory of the Welsh, it's possible the Davidson clan were part of this
@@ajrwilde14 no Davies is very much Welsh none of Wales was in Scotland it was part of England fir years the Borders of England Northumbria in particular was part of Scotland they have a Northumberland tartan
From what I have heard from Scottish history and culture, many in a clan were not related or direct family of the chief. Some came to the clan and swore allegiance to clan and chief and were welcomed. So there has been in some ways ties to different clans or allowances to wear different tartans or kilts. In my family I have ties to 3 clans Fletcher, Gregor and MacLeod
But if you are really unsure there is many neutral tartans out there which are stunning
Indeed, clans were linked by loyalty rather than just kinship. Clan itself is derived from the Scottish Gaelic word clann, which means children, or kin, hence the confusion.
Most common tartan you will see a Scot wearing if they don't have there family tarting will be Stewart with the red and black,
My Tartan is "Hunter Mcintyre" but very hard to come by for hire
Only been able to get it once or twice, but Stewart is another I've worn before and you will see that alot!
I personally avoid wearing tartans I'm not connected to but I don't judge. I do however plan on getting a Gordon kilt because it was used as military tartan by the Gordon Highlanders, a favourite of mine.
As an afternote there is a Pride of Scotland tartan generally a blue one. I am MacLaren and I have a rug in POS, the only thing that I have that is not MacLaren.
I would caution against using that particular initialism for Pride of Scotland as it has a more common and less savory connotation. ;-)
1. The "Clan tartan" is a Victorian construction, wear whatever you want.
2. As far as clan connections goes it's the maternal line that counts.
3. I reckon the so called "traditionalists" are American (they seem to be the keenest on cooking up cock and bull rules and quasi traditions).
If you are interested in learning about the traditions of the Gaels your best bet is to talk to the Gaels of Nova Scotia.
I was at the Stone Mountain Highland Games and met a member of clan Wallace (he happened to be the area coordinator for the clan) and they invites us to join. Stopped by the Gunn clan tent, and without being able to prove my 4th G. Grandmother was an actual Williamson, I was told I couldn't join. Oh well.
If you go back, clans were not all family related.
They were groups of families that lived locally and took the local chief as their leader, usually adopting his surname to signify that.
But they were not all one patrilineal family, although, as they lived locally and knew each other, they did intermarry.
Clan Macthomas seemed very keen for me to prove direct lineage and unless I could trace my name back to the correct geographical region of Scotland, they weren't that 'welcoming' if I can put it that way- but they are a 'Highland clan' so maybe that makes a difference.
How do you chose between clans...through my mom, I have Morrison and McPherson. I always kinda veer towards McPherson because it's the closest generationally to me ...great grandfather's grandmother. The Morrisons were Ulster Scots who left Isle of Lewis in the 1600s.
I have Clan Kincaid, and MacCall which is a sept of Clan Donald. I reached out to Clan Donald about which tartan I would be authorized to wear. The email I received back stated the MacCall was throughout all of the MacDonald lands, and that I was free to wear any of the tartan. No question of paternal or maternal lineage. The same is true of Clan Kincaid. I chose the modern MacDonald as the best compromise.
Mom is a Spence/Spens. Sept of MacDuff. Her father/my grandfather was full Scottish. Help! lol
I know I have Scottish /Irish in my family . I recently came across a video showing the Scottish clans in the time frame they appeared . The Carter Clan shows up at 1470 in Scotland , in the Scottish / Irish area . I have tried to find the Tartan colors of Clan Carter & how to purchase a kilt . How can I find out what the colors are and where to get a kilt
Would it be okay to wear a Black Watch tartan kilt if my grandfather was in the Black Watch?
Thank you, this helps. Mom was a Wilson, but i also have lines on my dad a little further back that is MacKeneeth and Stewart, Fraser, Duncan. So i wasnt sure if i should go dads line, whom has more, or stick with Wilson cause its moms maiden name.
My mum's maiden name is also Wilson! I'm actually thinking of double-barreling with my non-Scottish surname
Crystal Weimer you could go with a mixture?
I’m sure there are hybrid tartans.
Or use it as an excuse to buy various types of tartan and wear the different types when ever you feel?
I really like that American Heritage plaid, I may have to get a nice kilt in that sometime.
My families name became Americanized to MaWhinney. We came from Donagal Ireland but just recently found out that 3 Scottish brothers came to Ireland as mercenaries to help Ireland fight and that is where we originally got our name. Is there a MacSweeney tartan? Or can you tell me what would have been a clan whose name would have been close to Mawhinney?
The general rule for many of the clan societies is that the name affiliated with the clan should be no further back than a grandparent, but most of them aren't very strict. A few won't let you join even if it's your mother's maiden name, but others accept anyone with any kind of family tradition of being related to that clan. In the US, because so many of us have such mixed ancestry, most of the societies don't really mind which side of the family your connection to the clan is on. We don't want to stop someone getting in touch with strong Scottish roots on Mom's side of the family just because Dad's not Scottish, after all.
I haven't seen the video yet but I'm a Cameron just now startingy exploration....
I am trying to decide whether to buy o`Brien my fathers Irish tartan although our name changes nearly every generation from O`Brien to Bryden to Brydon to Bryan to Bryant to Bryan (nightmare for geneology) or Marshall Tartan, they were Scottish gypsies on my mothers side (proud of my ancestor "King Billy" Marshall),but equally the Wilson clan with Royal connections on the same side.
I wear my uncles old kilt which was in my grannies tartan not my Granda's
If you consider the history of the clans the relationship is in the word clan, from children or family. The extension of the clan is due to locality so there are many families (surnames) in that area that would be under the protection of the clan and ruled by the chief. Marriages would be arranged to strengthen these bonds between families and the ruling families much in the same way that royalty had done over the ages.
On a lighter note you could rename yourselves as The MacStatler and MacWaldorf Soceity, forgive the British humour.
As a scotsman born in Scotland, I only wear Mackenzie or McAulay as those are my family clans.
I have started my own Clan, we are the Clan McCoffin
The best tartan to wear is the one that's traditional to your surname.I for one don't have that problem,my Clan has at least three.
If one chose to affiliate with a clan-for example, marrying into it, working for the laird, or by having served in one of the traditional regiments (I.e. Fraser’s Highlanders, etc.) then it’s appropriate to wear the clan tartan.
In my world the pipe major makes the decision on the tartan,I own 3 different kilts
I'm related to the McDowells, McElraith and Hamilton on my Dad side and the Trail, Ramsey, and McBean on my mom side I don't know which tartan to choose
My grandfather was a Crawford as was my mom by birth. My son wants to wear it and I don't see why not. And no, his dad was not Scottish in any way. What do you think?
It shouldn’t be worried about too much. Some chiefs of Scottish clans themselves are descended from the maternal lines; Mackenzie, MacLeod, etc. Kincaid has a Lady Chief, if her children carry the chiefship, they’ll be from the maternal line, too. Doesn’t matter how far back, like you said, it’s just whatever you’re comfortable with. There are certain tartans that aren’t *allowed* to be commercially produced, but other than those (which are very rare) there aren’t any tartan rules. No-one’s gonna police you unless they’re weirdos. Wear what ya like, and what you’re comfortable with. Montrose wore a tartan given to him by a Macnaghten to his execution. They’re there to be enjoyed, and we should count ourselves blessed we live in a time where they’re all so accessible. Morrow and Murray wear the same tartan and three out of my 4 grandparents have Scottish names, so I’m lucky. But for anyone who doesn’t have any Scottish heritage and still is interested and wants to join in, find one you like and get stuck in.
My line has two clans at the same level in my genealogy. Bell and Johnstone so I am not sure which to wear. They married each other. Can you be more than one clan without offending people?
My paternal Grandmother was a Cotton and a descendant of Bernard Bruce son of Robert, 6th Lord of Annandale. Would it be in poor taste or too questionable for someone to wear the Clan Bruce tartan? I have not been able to find a tartan for the Cotton family which appears to have been a fairly predominant family. Thanks!
Contact Clan Bruce (in Scotland) and ask their opinion> After all if you wish to join a club you approach the leadrship of the club and not the individual members.
The Cotton surname has Old English origins and was a common place name. There is no registered Cotton (Coton/Cottem/Cotum) tartan and I can find no clan connection to that name. There is one listing of an unidentified cotton sample in the STA register, but it's referring to the fiber rather than the surname. Your connection to Laird Robert is much more notable though, and since there is no restriction on the Bruce tartan, you are free to honour that connection by wearing the sett. Do so with respect and no one should give you a hassle about it.
You are free to wear whichever tartan you want as previously said (....you write your own history) but there are a couple of exceptions! Some tartans can only be weaved with express permissions (under license) for specific clients/associations. These are tartans not available to the general public.
To each their own,but Ill only wear my family tartan,luckily it's a great tartan. Clan McNaughton.
My Da's Ma immigrated and married a Latvian. I rep Clan Walker (Gran's Clan). Yes I'd like to know about Clans' feelings on it.
Whoa- I didn’t realize you could join world wide. How do you go about that ?
Is there a McKennie tartan?
I have clans MacIver, Campbell, Morrison, MacLaren, McCaffrey, and McCosker in my family. So my closet is full.
It is my understanding that a women's clan was of equal consideration and often children would carry there mother's maiden name as a middle name. I am sure it would be more than acceptable to wear a mother's clan tartan. In addition people who were not related by blood would shelter under a clan and they too would wear that clan tartan if so desired or their own.
The proprietor of a kilt shop that I used to frequent (before he closed and moved back to Scotland) had told me once that some do follow the matronymic line. There's even the 'Nic' prefix for surnames meaning 'daughter of'. However, he was in the business to make money, so there's no telling whether he was being credible or not. I say wear what you like from either side of the family. All of that tradition stuff is really more of a guideline than hard and fast rules. ;-)
Okay that sounds right, but I want to know? I am of McKinnon descent but most kilt companies don't have it's tartan and the cousin McKinneys don't seem have a tartan, so what do i do.
We have a few different options for MacKinnon! www.usakilts.com/advancedsearch/result/?q=mackinnon
Have you tried Scotland?
Ok so dating back to the 1600s i have 3 blood lines of McGregor, the latest being my mother. My great grandmother on her side was a Bain. Which in past history in Scotland was used as alias for McGregor. So I assume I have quite a bit of McGregor in my blood
I'm pretty sure I heard this on the Kilted Coaches channel. I believe they said pretty much anyone can wear any tartan they like. They picked Royal Stewart for the tartan they wear as coaches because they like it. They're both Scots in Scotland. The American Indian thing on the other hand seems inaccurate to me (DNA requirements). The tribes took slaves from other tribes and everywhere. Over time they assimilated into the tribe. Therefore you could have European DNA and still be a full fledged member of the tribe. I think the DNA thing is more modern than traditional. Cheers!
I just did my DNA and got some surprises. Dad thought he was 100% Italian. Not so much...Mom wasn't a surprise. All over the British isles and some german.
@@nokoolaid German is prevelant in Britain due to the Angle and the Saxon influence also from the Frisians (Netherlands) who were also a Germanic tribe.
@@colinp2238 The German comes from Johan See from the Rhine region. He came to the US in the 1700s. Since then people of UK and Irish ancestry for the most part married into that line, some were Anderson, Bush, Scott, etc. There was an Auxier from the other side of the Rhine in France, but that's about it. Johan did marry someone of dutch ancestry I think. By the time it got to me, it's pretty mixed. Mom was a See, her mom a Coyne and Deacon, her Dad was See and Hargis and so the lineage search starts. Finding info on the Italian side is much more difficult.
As a Macmillan I give anyone who likes this permission to wear my clan tartan. If anyone bitches point back to this 💖
Clan Murray has you run your heritage back to great grandparents... If anyone of them is a Murray or one of the septs (piper small etc.) They accept you as a member, if not you can become a clan associate.
I guess for me I've decided to get the clan tartans of my most closely related relative who has a clan name and go from there. For example my third grandmother on my mom's side is a Graham, and my fourth great grandfather on my dad's side is Gordon. Then the nest two are MacNab and MacAurthur, then even further back I'm Murray and then a MacLeod, and it goes on from there. My suggestion would be to go with which tartans you can find and like. I'm going to go with what is most easily affordable for me, and easy to find.
On another note I find it interesting that clan membership works the exact opposite as Native American tribe membership. On my dad's side my fourth great grandfather was a full blood Delaware Native American, but because the records have been lost, and because my blood quantum is too low I can't be recognized. Interestingly enough though I've heard some tribes are lifting this requirement. Honestly I'd love to hear you both talk more about the comparison of the two.
Your 3xGrandmother was a Graham, from where?
The Grahams were Highlanders but also one of the great Riding Families of the Borders.
probably more interesting in fact.
When James 6th suppressed the reivers in coming to the throne of England - having used them to wage an undeclared border war following the execution of Mary Queen of Scots [his Mum] - he deported Grahams wholesale to Ireland from where many made their way to America.
@@andyleighton6969,William Graham was from the Claverhouse Grahams. I don't know exactly where that is, but from what Family Search says that's where they are associated to.
@@andyleighton6969, also, you are correct in that my Graham ancestors did just that. They were deported from Northern Scotland to Ireland, and then to the US. William Graham was the first immigrant to the US in the 1820s. Then it was my 3rd great grandfather who was John Graham, then the most recent Graham which was my Amanda Graham which was the last one to bear the name.
There are a few Clans that are VERY strict about their tartan. The Maitlands for example have a lock on their tartan to get it you have to prove linage and pay membership (Ex-wife's side). I'm a Brown (Broun) and short of it not being carried by many venders (USA Kilts carries it) it doesn't have such strict guidelines. That and there are So Many of us poor bastards there wouldn't be any good reason to restrict it 🤣🤣🤣
House Burnett are more than happy to have relations visit Crathes Castle on the River Dee.
In America it's more like picking one of many heritages, or the one with the biggest influence on your family's traditions. I've Irish, Welsh, Scottish, English, German, Norwegian and some French heritage but identity most closely to my Scottish heritage or Celtic heritage generally (Scots-Irish, Welsh, Breton). My Scottish side has many clan ties but 4x great grandparents and older, and my DNA lacks a large percentage of any of the above mentioned except for English 85-100%. Goes to show you need both DNA AND family tree info, if I only had DNA I wouldn't know how much Scottish and Irish heritage I have. You could say DNA is not necessary if you have a tree, it just adds to the picture.
Celts passed down possession matriarchally, just thought I would mention that.
But anyone should wear whatever they want.
The ancient picts was a matriarchal society, this was changed with the introduction of christianity
the 'Celts' were all over Europe and had many subcultures, the Scots i.e. Irish have Mc or Mac surnames which mean 'son of'
@@ajrwilde14 yeah, even Iberia had Celts.
How would I contact a Clan society, the Boyd Clan specifically (as I understand my Ryburn side of the family is a sept of the Boyd Clan)? And can a sept wear the tartan of the parent clan?
Is your clan spelling a variant of Rayburn?
@@M11969 yes, I understand it is.
Nobody in Scotland cares which tartan you wear , nobody minds if you wear a "wrong" tartan. A lot of people choose the one they like , especially if your Clan tartan is ugly. Bear in mind lots of theses were invented by mills in Scotland
Clan Fergusson checking in....
Last name is Kay obviously which is a sept of MacKay but my mother was a Shaw. I do feel more of a connection with Shaw since i'm a Kay and not a MacKay even though there may be a real connection there.
There is also the ancient Jewish law that states 'there could always be a question of who is your father, but never a question of who your mother is'
My paternal side is a Sept of Clan McTavish and my maternal side is direct from Clan Guthrie. I prefer the Guthrie tartan better.
My great grandmother (my father's father's mother) maiden name was mckee (earlier generations I could trace the paternal line spelled it as mckie) until this very m9nth I knew little to no information on my dad's side of the family and now I see I have connections to two or more clans the second one I know of being Campbell (sorry if I spelled that wrong.) I'm still trying to find a tartan for the clan does anyone know what the colors are?😅
We have tartans for both McKee and Campbell! You can take at look at them on our website. Just search for the names in the search bar at the top!
I am both clan macarthur and house of stuart