Willie Mae "Big Mama" Thornton & Elvis "Hound Dog" - Signature Songs That Are Actually Covers
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- Опубліковано 14 тра 2023
- The story of "Hound Dog", Elvis' best selling single - Signature Songs That Are Actually Covers
With over 10 million copies sold and an 11 week stay at number 1 in the best sellers charts in the USA. Hound Dog is Elvis Presley's best-selling single, but by the time he recorded the song in July 1956 the original version from 4 years earlier, had already spent 7 weeks at number one on the R&B charts.
The song was so popular it spawned dozens of cover versions, response records and sound-a-like rip offs all, it was the subject of contractual disputes and copyright infringement legal cases, all before Elvis had apparently even heard the song!
It was written by the song-writing duo of Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller, for Willie Mae "Big Mama" Thornton an up-and-coming artist on Don Robey's Peacock Records.
You can find more information about all the various cover versions of "Hound Dog", and many more popular songs, at secondhandsongs.com it's the world's largest database of cover songs and a resource I often use when researching these stories. Thanks @Secondhandsongs !!
00:43 How Leiber met Stoller
04:53 Johnny Otis asks Leiber and Stoller to write a song
05:57 Leiber and Stoller become producers
07:07 Wille Mae Thornton's "Hound Dog"
07:46 Big Mama Hears "Hound Dog" on the radio for the first time
08:26 Who actually deserves credit for writing "Hound Dog"?
10:15 Peacock Records officially releases "Hound Dog"
11:01 Pre-Elvis cover versions of "Hound Dog"
11:50 Don Robey isn't happy, despite massive sales
12:34 "Bear Cat"
14:52 "Hound Dog" in the recent Elvis movie
16:11 Freddie Bell & The Bellboys version of "Hound Dog"
17:21 Freddie Bell reflects on "Hound Dog"
18:07 Elvis Presley performs "Hound Dog" on TV
19:39 Elvis releases "Hound Dog"
20:03 The Andrea Doria
23:07 Mike Stoller's first impressions of Elvis' version
23:37 Johnny Otis rescinds authorship claims over "Hound Dog"
23:55 Valjo Music Vs Elvis Presley music
25:14 What did Freddie Bell get for his adaptation of "Hound Dog" that Elvis copied?
25:23 Did "Hound Dog" really get to number 1!?! - Розваги
These little documentaries are world class! . . . Always incredible detail that must take you a huge amount of research . . . Much too good for UA-cam!
Thank you so much for the words of support and encouragement.
It does take a lot of time and effort, especially as it's just me one making them...but whenever someone makes a comment like this it seems worth it. 😊🙏😁
I hope your channel gets the viewership it deserves. Thank you for sharing these stories with us!
Thanks so much for the support.
The channel is constantly growing...so I'll get there I'm sure. 😁
Fascinating deep dive into a classic. It's amazing how such a fundamentally simple song has such a wide ranging legacy and provided fame & fortune to a number of people. At the time it was a new era dawning and this song style and the types of musicians (and labels & publishers) emerging were just finding their feet and would set the tone for decades. I think that energy and excitement more or less evaporated by the mid 80s and there's been no edge, no new ground, no shock since. Great work on this video, really high quality and very watchable. Thanks.
So true!
I would say that excitement did continue a little longer in the late 80s and early 90s with hip hop...but even that is now dull, boring and predictable....and nothing since has really felt as new and exciting...but maybe I'm just getting old 🤷♂️😆
I love Big Mama Thornton's version.. Very raw.. Awesome.. As far as Elvis' version.. I love it as as well with him in the live first version shackin' his hips and the awesomeness of it. I really think that it's unfair that Big Mama Thornton didn't get the money that she deserved. Her version is raw down to the ground rOcK 'n rOlL history. She should have also been givin' cridit for changing some words in Hound Dog. She also should have been more famous. Everyone should know Big Mama Thornton.. )^_-)/
For sure! Totally agree
I'm sorry! With all due respect to Ms. Thornton, she didn't write the original lyrics. Just because she changed them doesn't mean that she should be given credit. Elvis' version also contains different lyrics from the original. Imagine all the confusion if every singer decided he/she didn't like the original lyrics of a song and decided to change them.
@@bvallelunga Yeah I know that she didn't write the lyrics of the original version. Elvis didn't either. Elvis had way more fame though and I think Big Mama should have had at least as much fame as Elvis did or even more then Elvis did for her version. Black artists back then got ripped off by white artists so much for their versions of songs. Yeah even though they are both not the original version of Hound Dog I still think Big Mama should have gotten more fame and money then she did. Pure rOck n' rOlL.. Raw Nasty Dirty the way it should be..
@@bvallelunga She changed the lyrics at a time when the song was incomplete and unfinished.
They took her just words on plain paper no melody, so at that point the song was still a work in progress as a song is legally defined as words AND music... She arguably finished the songwriting process.
It actually happens a lot, people change lyrics, add sections, and quite often end up getting a songwriting credit. It Causes no confusion whatsoever.
An example off the top of my head would be Led Zepellin's "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You" written by Anne Bredon and made popular by Joan Baez, the Led Zeppelin version is credited as written by Plant, Page, and Bredon.
Changing lyrics and then getting a writing credit is so common there's long been an industry adage "Change a word, take a third"
Another example is "Irreplaceable" by Beyonce, she's credited as one of the writers of the song despite it being written, and recorded by Neyo before she had even heard it. He didn't release his version so it's not technically a cover, but after she altered some of the words and melody for her version she was given a writing credit.
So glad to see new content is still coming out of this great channel. I'm subscribing.
Nothing new under the sun.
Great video, as usual ! 👍 And very happy to make a little cameo at the end 😇
Absolutely! Thanks for all your hard work on creating and maintaining such a comprehensive database! I've updated the video description to include a thank you and shout out! This is the first time I've used an actual screen capture of your site, but it's been a valuable resource for researching lots of my episodes.
@@Traxploitation The appreciation is mutual. When you release new material, do let us know, we'll spread it through our channels as well.
PS: Do you have a user account on our website?
@@Secondhandsongs Just signed up as Traxploitation hopefully I can help add some info, I was quite active on discogs for a while until I was told by one of their editors i wasn't a reliable source of information...FOR MY OWN RECORDINGS! That they had tons of incorrect credits for, and they deleted all the info i submitted on them SMH! So i don't contribute and I don't use them as a resource for research anymore.
@@Traxploitation Hilarious ! Reminds the one time Wikipedia deleted an update, by one of our editors, that mentioned SecondHandSongs, saying we weren't a significant website. But at that time, there were already 6.000 Wikipedia articles using SHS a source 🤣🤣
Wayne. Merry Christmas and happy new year. Please don't give up on your audience or channel. Tweak things if you need to but please don't give up. I know it's not easy but I'm here to remind you it's worth it ❤ remember your goal of 100 videos? You're actually half way there! See if you can get 50 done in 2024. Unfortunately it's a cycle, you don't upload regularly so people don't come back which makes it hard to upload due to finances. I hope you are in good health and wish you the best 2024.
HAPPY NEW YEAR. And once again...thanks for your kind words of encouragement... you know I'd love nothing more that just make these vids all day everyday... and one day that will be the case.
I haven't given up or forgotten, and never will. I'm currently working on ways to make this a more sustainable venture... whether thats a patreon account or a crowd funder campaign remains to be seen...but I'll pass 100 vids this year for sure!
Good video love the content 👍
Wonderfully presented Mr Traxploitation! Definitely sub worthy! I enjoyed the blurred lines documentary, was amazing to see how an almost unlosable case went completely tits up because of the behaviour of the defendants. As a composer this is scary stuff to watch though 😂😂 Crazy how a few words, or a tiny combination of notes can bring so much heat down on your head!
So true!
Glad you enjoyed it, these videos were intended for musicians and writers like yourself, to illustrate some of the pitfalls in the industry and perhaps offer some guidance in navigating them. I guess the less here is careful what you say in interviews.
I wrote/produced an album for an artist who during the writing process had asked to make her a song like Michael Jackson "Human Nature", I ignored her as I wasn't in the habit of copying songs, and instead just made something using similar instrumentation, Drums, Bass and Synths. The album went on to win a prestigious award and the artist started doing a lot of interviews. I read one interview where she said we had copied "Human Nature" pretty much note for note, I nearly choked on my coffee! I had to call her right away a tell her to stop saying that as it wasn't true but she's publicly admitting to copyright infringement! That statement could easily have been used against us in much the same way that Robin Thicke's comments were! The album, while critically acclaimed and award-winning was a commercial failure so with no money to sue for we avoided litigation. But yeah, lesson learned. Artists definitely need media-training before just saying anything in an interview.
@@Traxploitation Wow that's interesting stuff! I'm guessing if you had taken it to court you would have been ok (since you didn't copy anything identifiable) but that would have been such a ball ache to go through. I hate how some people are rearing cases by stating plaugerisim when it's clearly just inspired by.
While I think melodies and complex motifs should be protected, everything else from chords, to style, to groove and rhythm should be off the table entirely.
yes again
*Johnny Otis* (and his bands) recording of *Harlem Nocturne* is pretty great.
True!
At some point I'll cover his son...Shuggie Otis too...the apple didn't fall far from the tree! 😁
Great video and research. If you ask me, thievery and legal manipulation all around.
Wait a minute, guy! Are you saying that Janis Joplin stiffed Big Mama Thorton? (at 27:30) I'll need some proof of that.
No not saying that at all. 🤷♂️
Janis Joplins cover of her song is probably the only time she did earn money properly. Don Robey was a crook and would have certainly paid her as little as he possibly could for all her releases on his label.
@@Traxploitation Thanks for that clarification. You did a fine job on your doc, and I recommended it on a list of 80 people, of which I am a member.
I'm sorry! But Elvis' best selling record was IT"S NOW OR NEVER with over 25,000,000 in sales.
That's a fair point, but still debatable as the published sales figures for It's Now Or Never vary wildly from 8 to 25 million. Depending on whether you believe Cash Box, Billboard or another source. Sales figures back then weren't accurate, they were based on surveys of record stores and reports from the label quite frequently they were inflated to create hype.
I chose to go with a combination of billboards figures and RIAA certifications...I did have a long (boring) section explaining all this but edited it down to a small.section at the end, and i also mentioned the fact that Hound Dogs success as a single owes much to the b side Don't Be Cruel being at times more popular than Hound Dog, and that if you treated them as separate singles Don't Be Cruel would have sold more than Hound Dog....did u get to that part?
I always preferred the Big Mama Thornton version; the lyrics make sense. In the Elvis version the lyrics are nonsense.
The story behind heartbreak hotel is pretty sad lieber and stroller were genius
no disrespect to big Mama Thornton but Elvis was prettier
That’s why he died first
26:40 Can't really be compared to Boys to Men #1 song is rubbish.
She got cheated out of everything that she deserved.
To me, Elvis will always be the RIP OFF ARTIST and we all know why he made it big but big Mama didn't.
"Rip off" is a little harsh. He did what artists and performers have always done and continue to do now, be inspired by what has come before...
Who do you consider to not be a rip off artist at all? like who, in your mind is the antithesis or a "rip off artist"? no matter who you choose, i'm sure i'll be able to find examples of them "ripping off" others. Elvis is an obvious target for hatred as he benefited from the popularity of black music at a time when music was heavily segregated, but he was by no means the first white artist, or person, to do this. Sam Phillips at Sun Records specifically looked for a white artist who could convincingly perform black music, thats why he signed Elvis in the first place. Teen Records founder Bernie Lowe identified "Hound Dog" as a song that could be popular with white audiences, if sung by a white artist, long before Elvis covered the song. All of this is in the video. Did you watch it all?
Because that's the allegations that was put out on him from jaulous haters, and sadly made a whole generation hate on him. I am so glad to see that many young people (aspecially young black people) now watch and share the true story of Elvis on UA-cam. I've seen so many totally change their opinion on him after watching documentaries such as" A boy from Tulepo" "Elvis and the black community" and "Remembering Elvis". Elvis loved black people and black artists, as an artist he fought against the segregation and racism of that time. He grew up among black people and their music. And he did not steal the songs he covered. "Hound Dog" was written by to jewish guys, and 8 other artists did covers of it before Elvis did. He gave royalties to the songwriters and never claimed it to be his songs. He paid good money to the black and white songwriters who wrote songs for him. Frank Sinatra did the same, he did not write his own music..
Otis Blackwell was one of the songwriters who wrote songs for both Elvis (All shook up, Don't be Cruel, Return To Sender) and Jerry Lee Lewis ( Great Balls of fire, Breathless) and got generously paid.
Hound dog by Ma Thornton and Elvis was such ripoff
Elvis' version is a legimate cover. 🤷♂️
Not a "rip-off". The writers were paid for the use of their song.
Hound dog wasnt elvis' those that wrote the song stole itbfor elvis
Eh? How can the people that wrote the song, steal it? Its their song! 🤦♂️
Recording a cover version is not stealing 🤷♂️
I'm guessing you didn't actually watch the video, thanks for commenting anyway.
you are stupid ! big mama was only a performer, she didn't compose the song! composers have the right to have it covered by others! What did Whitney Houston steal from Dolly Parton?? 😅😅
It was on the radio, she sung it for people so I’m confused on how Elvis didn’t know that was her song? 🤔 y’all keep saying he didn’t steal it WHEN HE DID LIKE THE OTHER WHITES!
Covering a song, recording a song someone else wrote, isn't, by any stretch of the definition, "stealing", regardless of what skin colour the writers or recording artists are! (the writers were white anyway, remember!)
It is literally how the music publishing industry works. You write a song and then try to get as many artists as possible to record it. The bigger, and more famous the better. That's how songwriters make money. The song doesn't even need to be a hit to make the writers money as they got a "mechanical royalty" for every single copy pressed, whether or not they got sold. So, you can say what you what about Elvis co-opting the style and on-stage mannerisms of black artists, that's all debatable, but it is not even slightly accurate to say Elvis stole songs, as you can't actually "steal" a song. You can plagiarise a song, that's the closest to stealing when it comes to copyright. but in order to be plagiarism you would need to pretend you wrote the song. Elvis never claimed to have written songs, instead, his manager started a publishing company and acquired the publishing rights to the songs he recorded which doesn't affect the amount of money the writers get. If anything, he made a lot of songwriters, many of whom were black, very rich by recording their songs.