Casualties inflicted should count for warscore, just like taking Casualties does. Inflicting casualties tends to be a bit more useful than you know, dying.
Paradox's reasoning is that they didn't want to incentivize people to get enemy divs to grind on their defensive lines for free kills and war participation even though they didn't actually push.
I guess that sort of makes sense. But at the same time you could theoretically just make a bunch of crap units and endlessly attack getting free war score that way. But again, holding the line is more useful than suicide charges on the enemy. And I think most people play against the AI, (I certainly do) at which point it gets annoying when say the Soviets get the most warscore because they had like 12 million casualties even though they are on the brink of collapse. I think doing a landing, and actually defeating Germany is more useful. Even if you have only 200k casualties. It just needs work I think, and I'm not alone in that opinion. I'm guessing they're more focused on the multi-player eliminate though where that line of thought makes somewhat more sense.
@@spaceboi231 There is probably a balance as it stands killing the enemy being worth nothing is frustrating when you are playing a nation without endless manpower. Maybe count your casualties when defending and your kills when you are attacking or something.
Here's a potential solution: compare the K/D ratio of the various countries and give them some amount of score based on their ranking and then scaled up by the total number of casualties and kills, so if the Soviets took 20 million casualties and killed 20 million Germans they get a large score for their effort, but that's comparable to the Americans over there who killed 10 million Germans and took 4-5 million casualties. Or something.
Well Canada was making trucks for the allies and the US was making trucks for the Soviets and the allies and the axis was making an inefficient logistics system that apparently didn't rely on trucks
+William King iirc, The Germans had surprisingly few trucks at the start of the war (and very, very little native truck industry) and relied heavily on trucks captured from France or produced in occupied French territory. It is always surprising to see how just under-developed German mechanization and German industry was at the start of the war and how heavily they relied on the industry of occupied nations.
+William King The Germans used motorbike-based logistics (like the Kettenkrad and motorcycles with sidecars) for a lot more than any other power since that was one of the few vehicles German industry could build in very large numbers and many German people were more familiar with their use because motorbikes had been pretty common and popular before the war. Meanwhile, the US (and by proxy the rest of the Allies) instead used Jeeps for scouting and light towing jobs since the US already had a very robust automobile industry (and so could make enough Jeeps for not just themselves but every other Allied nation) and many US people were already familiar with the use of automobiles.
Being Canadian and hear ISP drop 'did you know facts' about Canada made me smile. But hearing ISP say Canada is now one of his favourite hoi4 nations (put into the context of my memories of him making fun of Canada as a hoi4 nation), made me very, very happy.
Canada on historical is indeed surprisingly fun. It's actually very beginner-friendly, as it allows the player to experiment and contribute to the Allied war effort in a meaningful way, all without having to worry about enemy invasions of the homeland. It's the first nation I played all the way through in Hoi4, and I don't regret it in the slightest.
Really I paused the video before it Began to Wright in the comments how happy I was he was finally playing Canada in the A-Z reminds me of the time I forgot that Canada in this game isn't called Canada it's called Dominion of Canada and therefore starts with a D and not a C
Canada has a military? I thought they just relied on America to protect them similar to how the Republic of Ireland relies in the UK for their defence.
10:06 If you listen carefully, you can hear the warning siren for the critical amounts of brain damage this map game is causing iSorrow. But wait, that's the naval invasion alarm you say? And all I've got to say, *"WHATS THE DIFFERENCE?"*
12:05 Speaking of statues about Canada in France, Fun Fact: Canada is the only country to have a national memorial/monument/historical site/park _outside_ of its nation! This is because of the Vimy Ridge Memorial, dedicated to the CEF soldiers who died taking Vimy Ridge. France gave Canada a portion of land on Vimy Ridge with the knowledge that Canada would build a park and memorial. Its not that Canada has a memorial to it outside of its nation, but that it _owns_ a memorial outside of its country. Its very interesting, and I would love to go there someday.
Taking loads of Italian territory and then not being thanked for it, is the actual Canadian experience. They were forced to wait outside Rome despite getting there first so the US could walk in.
6:10 I've heard it described as "3rd largest surface navy" so I bet there was 1-2 nations that had subs when we didn't so we skewed the stats a lil bit.
2:47 about that... the fascist AI for Mexico if a civil war breaks out SUCKS. Even if you supply forces you’re left hung out to dry because they can’t do shit and just get killed.
Canada is actually the nation that "mobilized" its force the better among the allies, to say it differently they spent the maximum of force they could considering their limitation.
Isorrows, I love your videos. Thanks for sticking with it, I’ve been watching you since before 100,000 subs, and your videos have always been a pleasure to watch, and have been a great reassurance… also you started my paradox addiction… so thanks!
Just remember, the longest sniper kill in the world belongs to a Canadian sniper from the JTF2, and the deadliest sniper of WW1 was a Canadian native.... who was using a Ross Rifle. Canada is evidently really good at warfare. I think it's the hockey in their veins.
ISP, as an estonian i would like you to hold your horses with estonia video because with the new dlc coming and in it is the new estonian focus tree i think you should just wait out on that video. Id like to see the vid in the new dlc rather than on a mod
I'm so happy theres another upload from iSorrowproductions. My desktop is currently being fixed and I am watching this from a Chromebook which does not use Windows OS. So I cant play any of my steam games. So naturally, I have spent much of my time just watching iSorrowproductions and ISP, watching all the old videos to the point where I'm running out of videos to watch. I feel my sanity gone and watching his videos help me alot. So thanks for uploading friend!
7:25 - ISP is correct, this is actually a historical inaccuracy with HOI4, the UK had given up the right to drag the dominions into wars against their wills in 1931 with the statute of westminster, Ireland was technically also a dominion until 1949 but refused to get dragged into WW2 by the British.
For your sweden video which will probably be released alongside hoi 5 remember that Sweden had the 3rd largest airforce after ww2. That’s because all the other air forces were blown up or part of the country’s army.
Imagine Hitler gets the call that Italy is falling to a naval invasion, He asks who's invading, the French, the Americans, the Brittish? and he finds out that it was 8 Canadians with tanks.
Canada did have just 2 ships at the start of WW2, or at the very least, at the end of WW1. However, they would have had one stationed on each side of the Dominion, one for the Atlantic and the other for the Pacific
I am a Canadian from French Canadian Quebec and my grandfather was a lumberjack and my uncle's owned a sawmill right next to the state of Maine... These first 4 minutes hurt!
Different war but in 1918 everyone thought World War 1 was going to last in into 1919. Then the Canadian Army Corps began a series of attacks that defeated 44 German Divisions over the course of 100 days. The Canadian Corps never had more than 4 divisions. 4 Canadian to start with they had two Scottish Divisions swapped in when two of the Canadian Divisions suffered heavy casualties.
7:48 isn't the reason why this happens something to do with a blocker that Paradox specifically coded into the game? Because the UK kept absolutely kerb stomping the Italian Army in Africa without it?
Speaking of Canada....my favourite playthrough on KR is what I call the 'Code Geass' run where I give Eddie all the power and invade America during the civil war. They really need to add a path on the focus tree where you can go absolute monarchy and form a new British Empire in North America
Historical Canada is actually pretty fun because you can micro a small but beefy army + tanks wherever papa Britain ends up fighting a war. Then again, that’s most commonwealth nations. Just tag along with whatever Britain gets tangled up in.
ISP promised he would never do any more sub goals because he hates them
And then he does more sub goals anyway
Is ISP just a masochist
It's not an ISP vid without a sub goal
He plays HOI, that's obvious
0:14 he referenced you
yes yes he is
I love that this comment has 666 likes pls keep it like this
"7 Days in a row of Hoi4"
Seems like someone did the "Hear the Voices" focus
"imperium of Canada", "Peoples Republic of the USA", "Greece has been capitulated"
@@SimaoRodrigues... all incredibly normal things to be said in the VC for HOI4 multiplayer
Pog
He surely will hear voices after that anyways
accelerationist canada
truly Canada is the strongest nation that ever can and will be in this game, next to Bhutan of course
No they’re very far away
>tannu tuva>luxembourg>Bhutan>everyone else>USSR>Germany
You mean THUNDER DRAGON EMPIRE!!
you forgot about nepal
And Luxembourg, and Ulm.
Casualties inflicted should count for warscore, just like taking Casualties does. Inflicting casualties tends to be a bit more useful than you know, dying.
Paradox's reasoning is that they didn't want to incentivize people to get enemy divs to grind on their defensive lines for free kills and war participation even though they didn't actually push.
I guess that sort of makes sense. But at the same time you could theoretically just make a bunch of crap units and endlessly attack getting free war score that way. But again, holding the line is more useful than suicide charges on the enemy. And I think most people play against the AI, (I certainly do) at which point it gets annoying when say the Soviets get the most warscore because they had like 12 million casualties even though they are on the brink of collapse. I think doing a landing, and actually defeating Germany is more useful. Even if you have only 200k casualties. It just needs work I think, and I'm not alone in that opinion. I'm guessing they're more focused on the multi-player eliminate though where that line of thought makes somewhat more sense.
@@spaceboi231 There is probably a balance as it stands killing the enemy being worth nothing is frustrating when you are playing a nation without endless manpower. Maybe count your casualties when defending and your kills when you are attacking or something.
@@spaceboi231 Yeah but, even if its scummy, you are still *killing the enemy* and in the scope of a war it would have a negative effect for the enemy.
Here's a potential solution: compare the K/D ratio of the various countries and give them some amount of score based on their ranking and then scaled up by the total number of casualties and kills, so if the Soviets took 20 million casualties and killed 20 million Germans they get a large score for their effort, but that's comparable to the Americans over there who killed 10 million Germans and took 4-5 million casualties. Or something.
Fun fact: Canada produced more trucks than all the Axis combined, only beaten in truck production by the US
Well Canada was making trucks for the allies and the US was making trucks for the Soviets and the allies and the axis was making an inefficient logistics system that apparently didn't rely on trucks
@@williamking6787Soviet logistics system didn't really rely on trucks as much either, we always mostly used military railways for that
+William King iirc, The Germans had surprisingly few trucks at the start of the war (and very, very little native truck industry) and relied heavily on trucks captured from France or produced in occupied French territory.
It is always surprising to see how just under-developed German mechanization and German industry was at the start of the war and how heavily they relied on the industry of occupied nations.
+William King The Germans used motorbike-based logistics (like the Kettenkrad and motorcycles with sidecars) for a lot more than any other power since that was one of the few vehicles German industry could build in very large numbers and many German people were more familiar with their use because motorbikes had been pretty common and popular before the war.
Meanwhile, the US (and by proxy the rest of the Allies) instead used Jeeps for scouting and light towing jobs since the US already had a very robust automobile industry (and so could make enough Jeeps for not just themselves but every other Allied nation) and many US people were already familiar with the use of automobiles.
"we are the economic powerhouse of north america"
"if you don't count america"
Another day of seeing how far ISP will go before being taken to an insane asylum over a map game
@Not RickRoll 👇 2 every "sane" isorrowproductions viewer clearly comes here to find links for soap carving asmr
don't worry it's not the DOMICAN REPUBLIC.
fr lmao
isp is gonna get institutionalized the second he goes outside and sees a map
"We don't know what's wrong with him doc!He keeps rambling about 'A to Z' and 'country roulette' and 'the Dominican Republic'!"
And he cant click on it
@@capitancuba1
"Doc, he keeps rambling about "Political power" and "research slots" while spazzing out someone help!
How do we know he isn't already?
Being Canadian and hear ISP drop 'did you know facts' about Canada made me smile.
But hearing ISP say Canada is now one of his favourite hoi4 nations (put into the context of my memories of him making fun of Canada as a hoi4 nation), made me very, very happy.
E
When you get to a mayor nation, maybe you could do an achievement run, like "Nothing wrong with our blood ships"
*achievement speedrun
@@f3tsch906 no, they meant achievement run
@@rikugaming3955 i know, but a speedrun would be even more spicy
@@f3tsch906 how do you speedrun a game that goes at a consistent speed
@@rbad6215 always on 5 speed for extra insanity or measure it on ingame days
Canada on historical is indeed surprisingly fun. It's actually very beginner-friendly, as it allows the player to experiment and contribute to the Allied war effort in a meaningful way, all without having to worry about enemy invasions of the homeland. It's the first nation I played all the way through in Hoi4, and I don't regret it in the slightest.
Yeah it’s super fun actually, especially if one of your friends is playing the US or Britain
just make sure to keep historical focuses on
everyone is having fun until the Japanese destroy the US navy and starts invading Alaska lmfao
I just hope that some point in the future they get rid of the mutually exclusive Steel Car/Zombies tree
@@capitain9996 Send in the Zombies
As a Canadian, it is my belief that this video should be the Canadian military’s recruiting video.
Edit: Welcome to WW3
Really I paused the video before it Began to Wright in the comments how happy I was he was finally playing Canada in the A-Z reminds me of the time I forgot that Canada in this game isn't called Canada it's called Dominion of Canada and therefore starts with a D and not a C
@@timon6759 write*
Canada has a military? I thought they just relied on America to protect them similar to how the Republic of Ireland relies in the UK for their defence.
@@yeetjones927 it does,just not as big
@@yeetjones927 Actually, the Irish have their Defense Forces.
Another story of small Canadian forces being terrifyingly good at warfare.
Canada the Giant Slayer
The Western Afghanistan and the doorkicker of Superpowers
that pfp
They have never lost a war so...
@@vegetableman3911 They never started a war either so....
@@flutee6162 though we do have a tendency of ending them.
10:06 If you listen carefully, you can hear the warning siren for the critical amounts of brain damage this map game is causing iSorrow.
But wait, that's the naval invasion alarm you say? And all I've got to say, *"WHATS THE DIFFERENCE?"*
When you’re tired of being nice so you spread the nice to everyone
We will show them our peaceful ways... _by force!_
@@jcrosenkreuz5213 "The world must learn of our peaceful ways... By force!" ***
but you accidently enslave half of them *I mean all of them* 13:40
As a Canadian, this is the one I was waiting for. Loved watching Canada kick ass
It's a shame he didn't use the mod that allows you to do the economy and the Zombies.
Good ole Historically accurate HoI4. I too remember when Italy pushed the British out of Sudan.
“Daily Uploads of HOI4”
You’re gonna end up as crazy as Antonin and about as dead as everyone’s individuality
12:05 Speaking of statues about Canada in France,
Fun Fact: Canada is the only country to have a national memorial/monument/historical site/park _outside_ of its nation! This is because of the Vimy Ridge Memorial, dedicated to the CEF soldiers who died taking Vimy Ridge. France gave Canada a portion of land on Vimy Ridge with the knowledge that Canada would build a park and memorial. Its not that Canada has a memorial to it outside of its nation, but that it _owns_ a memorial outside of its country. Its very interesting, and I would love to go there someday.
Road to 56 Honduras has a great non-aligned focus tree, and I'm not even kidding here. Can't wait until you do it
@Adenosine is a heck of a drug no no no. It is actually *ANARCHO CAPITALIST HONDURAS*
Taking loads of Italian territory and then not being thanked for it, is the actual Canadian experience.
They were forced to wait outside Rome despite getting there first so the US could walk in.
I can't wait to see him make this somehow fun
He actually did
6:10 I've heard it described as "3rd largest surface navy" so I bet there was 1-2 nations that had subs when we didn't so we skewed the stats a lil bit.
The Denmark video was honestly one of the most fun videos I’ve ever seen. You should do more collabs for this series.
"I'm going to do a whole week of HOI4 when I hit 630.000 subscribers"
Yeah, I think I might unsubscribe, I don't want to be complicit for ISPs death.
Oof 😬
-Italy: NOOO!! YOU CAN'T GO AROUND TAKING OUR PORTS AND CUTTING OFF OUR SUPPLY!
-Canada: haha tank go vrooom
Percival is just alternate universe Charles de Gaulle and you can’t convince me otherwise
Petition to get ISP to reveal his total gametime for HOI4
2:47 about that... the fascist AI for Mexico if a civil war breaks out SUCKS. Even if you supply forces you’re left hung out to dry because they can’t do shit and just get killed.
Maple Syrup got it's long desired revenge!
😐😐😐
before the war as newzealand, you can manage to get light tank 3s and its fun. just blitzing through the german ai is beautiful
We need those Canadian Ross Rifles.
Canada is actually the nation that "mobilized" its force the better among the allies, to say it differently they spent the maximum of force they could considering their limitation.
It would be nice if you can elaborate further.
i wonder if this series is going to be put on hold when he reaches Estonia for the upcoming dlc
At the current rate the DLC will already be out when he gets to Estonia
@@cm01 yep
@@cm01 not necessarily, because the only thing between this and estonia is the Dutcb East Indies, Ecuador, and El Salvador
@@thedarkholegammertdhg9255 and the DLC is at LEAST 3 or 4 weeks away so…
@@ianmiller8399 it'll be close, if he hits 630k within the week, than he will either have to postpone for the DLC or go ahead anyways
14:46 How dare you insult the great and mighty nation of New Zealand! We're a great pow- nah i'm kidding we've got nothing.
Isorrows, I love your videos. Thanks for sticking with it, I’ve been watching you since before 100,000 subs, and your videos have always been a pleasure to watch, and have been a great reassurance… also you started my paradox addiction… so thanks!
Just remember, the longest sniper kill in the world belongs to a Canadian sniper from the JTF2, and the deadliest sniper of WW1 was a Canadian native.... who was using a Ross Rifle.
Canada is evidently really good at warfare. I think it's the hockey in their veins.
ISP, as an estonian i would like you to hold your horses with estonia video because with the new dlc coming and in it is the new estonian focus tree i think you should just wait out on that video. Id like to see the vid in the new dlc rather than on a mod
Xstonia. Plenty of time.
@@mrjerrio1 not when hes gonna do a whole week of them
The Baltic trees are going to be a generic shared Baltic tree, similar to the Chinese war lords.
@@sailorssilence1983 they will have a largely shared tree, but each will have a unique branch, with a grand duchy Lithuania and Scandinavian Estonia
@@thedarkholegammertdhg9255 Aaaah, thanks for clarifying.
"To start with we're gonna delete all of our military..."
Well, he understands the Canadian Govt. Well enough I suppose.
The best part about Canada is definitely the Ross Rifle
Oh gods no....not that thing!!! It was more suited to be a baseball bat or a club then a gun lol.
@@terrencehill4716 ever played bf1
@@silver3331 yes, and I try to avoid it as best as possible lmao. Actually re-downloaded it like a week ago, surprisingly quite a few play it still
@@terrencehill4716 it’s the second best in the game tho 😕
@@silver3331 that may be very true lmao. I try and do some form of historical accuracy, and well historical speaking it wasn't the best gun lol
I'm so happy theres another upload from iSorrowproductions. My desktop is currently being fixed and I am watching this from a Chromebook which does not use Windows OS. So I cant play any of my steam games. So naturally, I have spent much of my time just watching iSorrowproductions and ISP, watching all the old videos to the point where I'm running out of videos to watch. I feel my sanity gone and watching his videos help me alot.
So thanks for uploading friend!
3:20 - 3:24
I think you just invoked the spirit of Dressel, ISP
O no he did a sub goal his addiction manifested itself and gates of hell has been now unleashed! What have you done!
12:37 how it feels being Canadian
7:25 - ISP is correct, this is actually a historical inaccuracy with HOI4, the UK had given up the right to drag the dominions into wars against their wills in 1931 with the statute of westminster, Ireland was technically also a dominion until 1949 but refused to get dragged into WW2 by the British.
Adorable piece of work. Thank you ISP for your inspirational videos. They mean a lot.
Weird Canadian Government ads like the North American House Hippo should be apart of the focus tree.
For your sweden video which will probably be released alongside hoi 5 remember that Sweden had the 3rd largest airforce after ww2. That’s because all the other air forces were blown up or part of the country’s army.
"Chamberlain isn't leeching anyone."
The Czechs have entered the chat
The fact that you are still playing this ISP after I quit HOI4 amazes me and I'll continue to watch you suffer.
Hoi4 is kinda cool still... I cant wait for the russian DLC
This is why I only play modded lol
Imagine quitting a map game.
@@mileshill7196 ikr
I feel like you never quit HOI4. You just don’t play it for a while until you find a cool mod or buy a dlc
This is about the funniest introduction to Canada as I've heard. Thank you.
We want 7 days of streaming hoi A-Z. Only then will it be 7 days to die.
Canada also already had pretty much independence since 1922, atleast inofficially.
Thanks!
Allies: "You're doing great!"
ISP Canada: *"I'M DOING EVERYTHING"*
I tried to stop a video by pausing it. It paused. But kept playing.
This proofs that Canada is, in fact, so strong even UA-cam can't stop it.
Germany invades Poland:
ISP: give me a year and I will help you GB
i guess that's the most historically accurate scenario indeed
I can't believe its been 6 months, It feels like it was only announced a few weeks ago
3:45
As a Canadian, I can confirm his description of Canada is 100% accurate.
Not even joking, fully serious.
At 7:44 there's a huge meme potential with the "Pawnstars" meme
The "best i can do is ; 3 motorized"
The seven days of A to Z bribery got me. Subbed. I've never seen anyone lose their minds in a week before. Sooo....looking forward to that.
Percival is my favorite ww2 general. Very underrated
I've been waiting for this wonderful agent of chaos to enter the spotlight for so long. Canada for the win.
Me seeing this knowing there are gonna be Canada stereotypes
fun fact: there was a canadian guy that managed to retake an entire dutch city on his own. the city's called Zwolle
Italy finally doing good
Canada “let me stop you right there”
The Canadians ain't sorry about this
surprisingly accurate to irl.Canada built out its economy and resource extraction like nuts, lead to the modern nation
So swell the song both loud and long, till both Rocks and Forest quiver! God Save our Queen and Heaven bless the maple leaf forever!
Is this the lyrics of a song?
15 minutes of ISP hitting his head until he is freed from his mortal coil to escape hoi4.
I’ve been waiting for this one for soooo long thank you ISP!!
Really excited to watch ISP suffer for my entertainment for 7 days in a row
A bit of perseverance, over powered tanks and lots of maple syrup. The key ingredients of any great nation.
Watching the first third of this as a Canadian was surprisingly, distinctly, exquisitely soul-killing.
DAILY UPLOADS?!!! IMPOSSIBLE…
we need every man, women and child to get on their tablets and subscribe to isp NOW
Fun fact: two original star trek actors, William Shatner and James Doohan are from canada. And the letter is a war veteran.
Imagine Hitler gets the call that Italy is falling to a naval invasion, He asks who's invading, the French, the Americans, the Brittish? and he finds out that it was 8 Canadians with tanks.
Canada did have just 2 ships at the start of WW2, or at the very least, at the end of WW1. However, they would have had one stationed on each side of the Dominion, one for the Atlantic and the other for the Pacific
7 days in a row. Christmas came early lads
I am a Canadian from French Canadian Quebec and my grandfather was a lumberjack and my uncle's owned a sawmill right next to the state of Maine... These first 4 minutes hurt!
Kinda brutal to see how slow the channel is growing over the past year or so. I hope it picks up soon
As a citizen of both Vietnam and Canada, I’m happy for this, now plz do my other half
So THIS is what my friend Terry means when he says that the Canadians punched above their weight in World War II.
Different war but in 1918 everyone thought World War 1 was going to last in into 1919. Then the Canadian Army Corps began a series of attacks that defeated 44 German Divisions over the course of 100 days. The Canadian Corps never had more than 4 divisions. 4 Canadian to start with they had two Scottish Divisions swapped in when two of the Canadian Divisions suffered heavy casualties.
7:48 isn't the reason why this happens something to do with a blocker that Paradox specifically coded into the game? Because the UK kept absolutely kerb stomping the Italian Army in Africa without it?
Speaking of Canada....my favourite playthrough on KR is what I call the 'Code Geass' run where I give Eddie all the power and invade America during the civil war.
They really need to add a path on the focus tree where you can go absolute monarchy and form a new British Empire in North America
Right when i finished binging the whole a2z series so far.... YEEES
6:26 certified ram ranch reference
As a proud Canadian I was waiting for this one
I like watching videos made by somebody who sounds like they're trying to not drown in their own spit.
Thank you Mars for sending your son Percival
0:53 Oh yes please punish me daddy iSorrow 😩
My favorite war in this game is the Allies vs Comintern war after you beat the Germans its great
Isp is gonna have PTSD and will never be able to look at a map again
We're gonna suffer along with Mr Service Provider
OOOHHH how did i only realize now, the canadian kindness stereotype was just training for getting brittain to let them freeee
Historical Canada is actually pretty fun because you can micro a small but beefy army + tanks wherever papa Britain ends up fighting a war. Then again, that’s most commonwealth nations. Just tag along with whatever Britain gets tangled up in.
Thanks ISP for reminding me of your Oblivion Ram Ranch adventure.... xD
The only thing you should not have done for a fun crazy game you did.... joined the allies.
This was a great video, it was nicely put together!
Calling it now, you're not gonna survive that week of a to z