Not just a family but also indvidual relationships. Gomez and Morticia are goals and watching them genuenly adore each other is a treat , ESPECIALLY in the 1991 and 1993 movies
I liked the contrast between "The Addams Family" & "The Munsters". The Addams family, extended family excepted, is a family that appears normal. They act and dress weird by choice. They believe their behavior is normal. The Munsters act like a normal family but their appearance sets them appart. Somehow they don't notice they look different from everyone else.
Holly I'm writting a book in where a young alcoholic ataches to a child he found abandoned in the streets and goes as far as he can to give the child as much love as he can even though he is riddled with internal and external problems, and ultimately dies for him.
As a Mexican who has seen plenty of soap operas, I'm still looking for my missing twin. I haven't found them yet but I'm... pretty sure they're out there.
The oldest popular stuff is rooted in anime... AT least as far as I've seen. No... I am not talking about Hentai, either... I mean regular anime... specifically (or more often) in "Harem" anime... which is supposedly a colossal male-oriented power-fantasy genre (and usually comical)... but if the MC has a sister, in a harem anime. When "Western" writers started to notice popularity for it grow, and realized there was a market, they just HAD to jump on that cash-cow and start milking. ;o)
Actually the "Jealous Parent" thing is one-hundred percent real. I can personally confirm that it does exist. My own mother had me extremely young and therefore could never go out and do the things a regular teenager could. So, she took her frustration out on myself by hammering at my self-esteem. I won't go into the gritty details, but it does happen and when I read it in stories it's either 100% believable because the author probably has a parent like this or it's not believable because the author has never experienced it.
I agree, it is a real thing unfortunately. When I was a preteen and my stepfather would pay any attention to me, my mother would get extremely upset and cause hell for anyone around. It's not something I would ever want to read about in a fictional story, it would just bring up too many bad memories.
I relate to this heavily. My mom is jealous because my older brother and I are great students, good at quite a few things, and are both conventionally attractive. Because she's jealous of our good traits, though, she ignores our nerodivergence and didn't let us get screened for mental illnesses, so we didn't find out till early adult hood that we're both autistic and ADHD.
I feel like there's a lot of people in general who don't even kno what "be a man" really means they just use it as an excuse to do terrible things or peer pressure people into acting a certain way.... A real man doesn't have to take aside their and explain how to "be a man" a real man leads by example and their kids will take notice of how they talk to people, how they handle difficult situations, and above all how they treat life in general... It's through this that your supposed to discern with your own judgement how to best live your life not by the ideals told to u and beaten into u by some hapless "real MAN" wannabe
Piggybacking off of the abusive family tropes is the trope of having a character forgive the people who physically and psychologically hurt them, because forgiving is "the right thing to do" and "they're family, so they deserve a chance."
Ah there's this fine line between a 'saint' character and a moron. I love pathologically good characters but they are so rare... since they tend to look like a complete idiots if written poorly. It takes right character traits and proper circumstances to pull off... and even THEN there are things which should not be forgiven.
THIS THIS THIS!!! It’s SO important oh my gosh! Not only is it a horrible and annoying trope, it can also be super damaging to anyone who views the media who is a victim of abuse (especially kids) because it can warp peoples trust and reasoning so much- it’s super messed up!
I think it should be noted that forgiveness of someone who hurt you should be bonded to boundaries and rules to protect yourself. "I forgive" does not mean "I forget and will now allow you to hurt me more." Which is also a trope that is very unhealthy. "I forgive" should mean I will allow myself to heal from what you did but you are never allowed back in my life, except if, by some act of God, you actually change for the better. Boundaries may not always include completely cutting someone out of your life but it certainly can and often should.
All though I think unhealthy families are kind of cathartic in some way. I grew up in an abusive household, and tbh with you I have no idea how a healthy family dynamic works. I write broken families, not all from my own experiences, though.
Mo Kay I think she mentioned not actually minding this trope. In some stories the parents would be in the way and the hardship of it makes the character more sympathetic and relatable
At least its better that brothers that fight their sisters because they found out they were dating. The one you mentioned can be done well if they actually have a very good reason to behave like this.
the incest one is so true. I saw a book just today at the library about a brother and sister falling for each other?? Why?? I just don't get it. Still better than the dinosaur erotica though
And I thought Japanese Hentai doujins were wierd. I guess horny creatives around the world make really wierd shit when in a state of MAXIMUM OVERHORNY.
When I started watching the video, I thought "at least she doesn't have to deal with the dumpster fire that is stepsiblings romance anime"... But then it turns out there're romance novels about *actual* incest??!!
@@taylor_green_9 It was especially present in Harem Anime, usually played for comedy, sometimes for actual drama. Oreimo is the most famous case if i remember.
The 'jealous mom's actually IS a thing with narcissistic moms. They degrade their daughter's appearance-call her ugly, etc- and crush her self esteem. Effectively projecting all their own shortcomings onto their daughter. Pretty messed up.
@@leanykakicsi6152 Like a story about a guy who's a ridiculously good cook, is good with kids, dresses fashionably, etc? That'd definitely make some people think real hard about certain tropes and cliches they might not have thought about before.
The "mother envy" trope is literally my grandmother and my mother. Grandma was very jealous of my mom, who was the pretty, popular girl who had a very warm, though normal, relationship with grandpa. Grandma was jealous of both details, and was very cold to mom. The trope exactly.
Just because Jenna has a cool Mom or whatever, doesn't mean the trope doesn't exist. It is a very real life "trope," and some people out there have to deal with that for a mother.
When I was 14, I found out I had an older brother and three nephews I didn't know about. I remember wondering at the time when exactly soap opera writers had taken over my life.
As weird as it sounds, I've seen the "jealous mom" thing play out. My best friend's mom was suuuuuper jealous of her and resented her for "ruining her body" during pregnancy. So she constantly attacked my friend for how she looked because she was jealous of how thin she was/how young she was. It was horrible and it really took a toll on her mental health. (She's okay now. Once she got away from her mother her mental health vastly improved.)
The father in my story isn’t an alcoholic but he’s such an asshole. He hates his son because he’s a hemophiliac and so in his eyes he’s weak. The prince grows up to despise his father. His first act as King is to take over a city that his father was never able to subdue. Basically he does this to spite his father and in his head he’s doing something his father never could. Plus, one time the King was gifted a beautiful horse but he couldn’t tame it. The prince stayed up all night until the next day chasing the horse until it finally let him come close to it. Then he climbs onto the horse and rides it around and his best friend (who stayed up with him all night) starts whooping and shouting. But he’s so exhausted he slumps against the horses neck and falls off and is in a terrible state for a week. Anyways yeah, I’m writing a shitty relationship between the prince and his father but his best friend, the main character of the story, has a beautiful relationship with his mother because they only ever had each other. So yeh.
My girlfriend is better at changing tires than I am. Take that, trope #2. A counter example for #3 that I enjoy from YA series the Brotherband Chronicles has the father figure being a recovering alcoholic and uses his familial ties to help get past some major depression. That was one thing I liked about those books. While I enjoyed the City of Bones books, trope #10 made it much more painful than it needed to be.
Brian Le Wolfhunt The city of bones to me was enjoyable until the incest happened When you first read it you're like "okay she didn't knew, but now she knows so this can be dropped right" And then you discover how wrong you were, so wrong, oh god
Don't forget the step parents and step siblings are evil trope or the wonderful parents died and now their kid is being raised by abusive relatives trope. Also, there's the parent (usually the dad), pays too much attention to their job instead of spending time with their kids trope. I know these things happen in real life, but they're too common in fiction.
"It's the murderous king...who squirted you into existence." That legit made me laugh so hard, I had to pause the video before I choked on my dinner. Classic, Jenna. 🤣🤣🤣
#7 isn't entirely fake, though I can see why it might seem so. My mother has always been the "intolerant of girl-children" type. Not because of any youth and beauty nonsense, but because in her world, other women, even small ones you gave birth to, are competition for male attention/validation. I don't think it's all that common, but it's certainly fucked up, to be sure.
Point 3. You know what I need? Alcoholic MOMS. My mom is alcoholic and while it’s not like abuse bad, it does put strain on relationships AND I NEVER SEE IT DONE. I feel lonely sometimes, please someone write an alcoholic mom for me. Please
I was planning on writing alcoholic mom trope. But basically every story people have told me of having alcoholic parents of either gender irl have always been abuse stories so I don't think anything I write would make you feel any less lonely, since I am just basing that character on the things I hear. Hopefully others can find stories that reflect your situation tho.
Sandra sat down in the living room, her legs tucked into herself. She looked over her shoulder, into to hallway illuminated by nothing but the flickering overhead light. She sighed to herself, shaking her head. Her mother never really paid much attention to the state of the house. For that reason Sandra had to force herself to be responsible, to fill in where her mother would fail. She couldn't afford to falter, because if she did, she wouldn't be able to afford the house. Work was something that seemed to fall into her hands young, beginning with more trivial things like delivering the newspapers, growing into other activities and once she was old enough, officialized work. And while Sandra was resentful of the woman, she could never bring herself to hate her. She resented the rut she was trapped in, the poverty she brought upon them. Above all she despised what her mother was doing to her body, she despised all the nights the woman spent passed out on the kitchen floor and the methods she used to even attain money. Being the breadwinner for her home, Sandra was caught between her own desires, her dream to become a model, and her duty to not only her mother, but her younger brother as well. Having been stretched out by life, she had a grand heart, but little means to accomplish anything that it desires. A part of her dispensed with her dreams, while the other part of her, one that lived when she shut her eyes at night, whispered otherwise. During the day she kept that dream locked in her heart, smoothed her hair and wore a smile as she faced the world that turned her mother into a slave of her own body. This was a brief little ficlet thingy I wrote. It's not that great, but here, Merry Christmas. You're absolutely right, it's not done at all. And I know some people that have mothers like this, but it gets no attention at all. It's always the father, which is unfair.
I have four sisters. Trust me, our lives growing up was not all cute-and-sexy, "ooh, slumber party/make-up/spin-the-bottle!" grossness. It was screaming and vitriol, ripping hair out of each others scalps, and sitting on each other so we couldn't get the remote -- specifically me because I'm the youngest and wanted to watch cartoons. I am _convinced_ that anyone who legitimately ships siblings together is either an only child or has wanted to fuck their own sibling/siblings themselves.
I fully acknowledge that there are people out there with really shitty parents and so I'm glad that there are novels that exist for them to relate to, but I personally have really awesome parents and for once it would be so nice to read about parents who are just great! It is possible to have problems and conflict in your life without awful parents. Also Jenna I just want to tell you that i've been binging all your videos and they have really inspired me to get back into writing, so thank you SO much. You have no idea how much you have helped!!
Some person: tell me about your book Writer: Well the main character is a mechanic who is working on her masters degree in statistics but then- Some person: woah woah woah. I thought you were writing a realistic book, not fantasy :)
Fantasy, but not because of gender roles. I can see a mechanic going towards engineer/physicist/management, but upgrading a career towards stats is pretty odd.
Sadly jealous mothers is a thing that happens. My mother gets jealous of my successes - she can't congratulate me, but turns the conversation back to her own past triumphs. She's not jealous of my looks though - LOL
I don't know about mainstream romances but incest has been popular in erotica and porn longer than youtube exists. Probably since the invention of fantasies that are unsuitable for minors. And frankly, from all of the taboo "fun in erotic fiction, but let's not do this in real life" kinks, incest is one of the more harmless ones (I've been in too many debates about what is fiction on the whole allowed to do and what not and why do single individuals think their moral real-life standards should be the guideline. Before, my opinion was "I don't care about incest in fiction but it's absolutely the worst and disgusting in real life." After: "You know what? From all the not okay things people do in fiction, I'd rather have a couple of siblings I'm friends with confessing they are in love than that they're rapists, murderers, killer clowns, serial cheaters, animal abusers, abusers in general, keep animals in fridges to watch them die, cannibals... Yikes-factor aside, from all the many wrongs people do in real life, it's one of those few I wouldn't end a friendship over.") I agree, though, that it doesn't belong in mainstream romance, like any other taboo or kink. Especially not since mainstream romance is still treated as an instruction manual covered in frills and purple prose for the ideal real-life romance.
Personally I see it as a betrayal of confidence which makes nothing safe like other types of domestic violence and abuse but worse because it’s intimate. Normalising it in writing etc is in my opinion beyond the pale. It breaks people.
I’ve seen mothers who were jealous of their own daughters before. Specifically if the moms boyfriend takes interest in the child. I think that may have even happened to a cousin of mine to some extent.
4:11 I read a romance novel once where the leading lady was the CEO of a company. Her husband and her in-laws thought that her focusing on her career was the end of the world. So what did the love of her life and his parents do? Did he discuss his concerns with the woman he claims to love and want to spend his life with? Of course not, that would be the sane and respectful this to do. Instead by his parents advice, he decides to meddle with their protection to ensure there’d be a bun in the oven. Thus thwarting her career goals for at least 9 months. When she found out what he did she then realized she was at fault for not putting his wants and needs first, despite the fact he had never brought it up before. I was fairly disturbed after reading that book.
Solora Goldsun I’m really sorry but I read this book years ago and I can’t remember the title for the life of me. I guess my mind wanted to be rid of that toxic bullshit.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE LAST ONE!!!! Incest is becoming way too popular in fiction. I don't know what other word to use for it, other than 'epidemic'.
@@dustinmccollum7196 Because under no circumstances should anyone see anybody they're related to as a sexual partner. Wtf it's not like there's a shortage of people on the planet. Go find someone you're not related to
@@Dragonmastur that's not a valid reason. Why shouldn't they find someone there related to Attractive? Is it morally wrong? Your not giving a valid reason. Your just saying under no circumstances should this happen. Also what does the amount of people have to do about it. You cant make some love someone else. Your using the same excuse people used to stop gay & Interracial couples. It doesnt fit your world view so it icky and wrong.
@@dustinmccollum7196 Besides the fact that it is gross, with fewer new genes, and the same ones being recycled around, you greatly increase the chances of there being something wrong with the resulting child if you have one. Interracial and gay couples do not result in that. Plus interracial couple and gay couples don't necessarily fuck their own family
#7 I met that mother when I was a wedding photographer. She was soooo jealous of her daughter the bride and desperate to be the center of attention. LOL
First love your channel! And these lists! My least favorite trope when it comes to fiction is forced family conflict. In my story, Micheals dad doesn't want him to go and be a wizard even kicking out his familiar, BUT (even though this hasn't been revealed yet). His mother and grandmother were murdered because they practiced magic by a cult. This cult is going to be the main antagonist of the story. Giving both a mini conflict and my protagonist a history with the antagonist.
I actually had a friend whose mom kept stealing her bfs... It was gross and she couldn't go a day without her mom putting her down and screwing her over
She was used to being THE hot young thing in the room and didn't like losing that title when her daughter hit puberty. Like the stepmother in Snow White.
@@Alias_Anybody The daughter spent a lot of time at our house and stopped bringing boys home. It did mess the daughter up, though. She only liked boys that she could steal from their girlfriends.
The fact that people write a lot about dysfunctional families with an alcoholic father at the center can tell quite a lot about how big this problem actually is in the society D:
@@JennaMoreci. Is it bad if I want to have a "prologue" focusing on the previous generations of the family to establish what being apart of this family means? Cause I'm worried about the length of it
It’s always great to have informative insight on Bad Family Tropes in fictional stories. I’m currently planning out my novel, so this is greatly appreciated in giving me some insight on how to avoid these mistakes.
Thank you for the content warnings, Jenna. It doesn't roast me to hear about them (I worked in a firm that dealt with child abuse cases), but there is so much of that out there that I know it can wound people in a terribly personal manner. Another great post!
When I first started writing my book my MC had terrible parents, I started again years later and they were much nicer. She had enough terrible crap to deal with, the least I could do for her was give her loving parents. (Her mother-in-law, on the other hand, IS awful.)
I'm so glad someone mentioned the abusive father trope. At first, it made you feel bad for the characters, but then it started to be surprising to see a GOOD father in a book/tv show/movie.
2:20 I remember seeing a tumblr writing prompt that suggested a subversion of this. Basically, a girl knew how to fight because her brothers all had “feminine” hobbies or behavior and she learned how to fight to protect them
Working as an editor, I can honestly say I’m shocked at how many manuscripts contain sexual assault on women. Often it happens in the story but then never connects to anything in the story. It is very triggering for me as a victim of abuse, and I’ve never worked for a publisher who’d consider a manuscript with sexual assault that is described and not a backstory elements that they’re overcoming in contemporary dramas or literary fiction.
Alcoholic abusive dad bothers me for a lot of reasons. Notably because Abusive Dad as a trope seems to be a default for so many writers. It's like they think their characters can't be really motivated to leave home without at least one shitty parent.
Sometimes cliched family tropes are fun to play against by turning them on their heads or just by bringing them to their logical conclusions (usually ending in disaster).
People ship for all kinds of reasons, not necessarily always because they condone such relationships irl but because they want to see dark themes explored.
@Sydney Hendricks my point was that you don't always know why someone ships a thing. Or why they're into the fiction they're into it. Most people know incest is wrong, the people you're describing are probably just overzealous teens that will likely outgrow that mentality. I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule, but they're still not the rule. Also about the serial killer comparison, ever seen the show Dexter & it's fandom?
@Sydney Hendricks Meh. Anecdotal examples from the internet I find to be unreliable & I own I'm just using my own experience as one too. Anyway, I didn't want this to turn into like an actual argument, so you have a lovely day. Bye, bye.
@Sydney HendricksI am just saying in general. I'm sure there are people that genuinely ship incest and think it is cute, and at the same time there are people that just read it for the dark or taboo factor. Knowing serial killers are bad means nothing. The same happens to books about murder and serial killings. Some people enjoy reading and writing about the darker parts of humanity, and some people have a fetish for murderers (hybristophilia) and read/write serial killer books not to be dark, but to be romanticized or eroticized. Everything is completely dependent on the narrative, the author's purpose for said narrative, and the reader's own interpretation. It is highly unwise to assume every story or reader of said story will be like the people or stories you have encountered.
When you mentioned Incest romances I just thought of 'A little Hatred' by Joe Abercrombie. Because of the previous series, the readers knows these 2 lovers are siblings but the characters themselves don't. I'm very conflicted because I ended up shipping them somewhere down the line.
Speaking of a too popular story idea: I was doing quite a lot of research for a romance where about half the characters are Blackfeet (a tribe in Montana). _Quite a lot of research._ I didn't want to create a sequel to the first book, but thought at some point I might write another book with Blackfeet characters-to recycle my research. Rather than a contemporary, perhaps a historical next time. Historically speaking, white men married to Indian women was pretty common. So I thought I'd turn that around to create something unique: White man living with the Blackfeet has a best bud. His posh sister from back east comes out for a visit and becomes intrigued by her brother's tall, dark, and handsome friend. Cue the violin music... Reading both modern and historic western romances I ran across a similar story: White girl (blond of course) raised by Indians since she was a child, has to fight to hang on to her "noble savage" lover so she can have the HEA that's so important to the genre. And then I saw another, and another, and another. Turns out white woman paired with an Indian man is a super popular western romance trope. But white man and Indian woman? None. Indian on Indian romance? Never seen it. Perhaps I go book shopping in the wrong places. But it makes sense. It's white women who buy these things. They want to dream about a lover who is completely different than their pasty husband dozing in the EZ chair instead of doing the after dinner dishes or helping with the kids. Where has the magic gone? It must be in a man who is different, exotic, and with dark smoldering eyes. Or skin that sparkles in the sun. Sparkly skin was popular for awhile. So that's my new idea: Mid-19th-century woman who's a crusty no-nonsense trader with the Blackfeet, has a best friend. They gossip and have a good ol' girl time, skinning buffalo and whatnot. Woman's posh brother from back east comes out for a visit and is intrigued by his sister's strong, graceful, "savage" friend. The friend can save the brother from certain death-perhaps a supernatural danger, like wolverine woman. Cue the violins... Don't know about white women, but Blackfeet women will buy it. PS: Love you, Jenna.
I suspect the reason we don’t see romance novels where the woman is native and the man is white is because even though that was a common practice in history, it likely wasn’t very romantic and was highly exploitive. Most of those real relationships were based on white people using their power to exploit natives. White men chose native woman because they had no power and had do whatever the man wants. It’s a male wish fulfillment fantasy to have a woman who is both dependent on him for protection from society and who also meets his sexual and physical needs without complaint. Hence why this trope only happens in fictional stories aimed at a male demographic, but not in romance movies or novels aimed at women.
If #10 bothers you that much (it bothers me, too), I hope you don’t watch anime. As for #3, “just add alcohol” (or drugs) seems to be a common way to make a story “mature”. It drives me nuts. Yes, alcoholics exist, and yes, they frequently ruin their families’ and their own lives. But there are so many other serious situations adults go through. Is that really all these writers can think of?
Queen Monarch but there are just as many without them lol take it from someone who watches lots of anime but still avoids incest so there are quite a bit that isn’t insest
Also in the worst family tropes, the father or brother figure who thinks they have a say on the female protagonist's friends or love interest(s). Duh, nobody asked you, Brian. On the flip sife, my favourite family tropes: - the estranged siblings making peace after going through hardship together - children trying hard to live up to their parents impossibly high status (for instance they're a sports prodigy or a powerful wizard, while the protagonist is just a regular kid with no special talent) - characters super protective of their parents, or parental figure, who go through hell and back to take them to safety /cure their disease /take them out of poverty (you get the gist) - families where noone is actually related, because they all chose to be together Gets me everytime.
One of my MCs was disowned by his parents, but he found out how to get the love and care of a family, even if some of them are in prison or in a foster home
"I've even seen an actual romance between a father and daughter." *_fireworks literally goes off outside as you say that_* *_is currently in the south..._*
The secret family member thing has actually happened to my cousins in real life. So apparently before my uncle got with my aunt he got another lady pregnant and left and then he had my two cousins. Then one of the cousins we were close with was shot in a gun accident. And years later we found out about the other sister. Kinda sad but it does occasionally happen which is kinda weird
The Missing Parents always gets me. Drives me nuts! Especially since the conflict could be made a whole lot easier if they just told their parents. I also utterly loathe the Incompetent Dad trope-Dads can be good parents? Yes, yes they can!
I’ve been feeling down about my WIP recently, mostly from lack of energy now that I’m getting ready for graduation and I’ve still got tons of homework and uni things to complete. But watching this and “10 best family tropes” has reminded me of everything I’ve done right with my characters and story. I’ve worked hard to make healthy, relatable, and interesting characters/ relationships. Thank you so much Jenna for these reminders and helpful tips ❤️
In many cop shows I watch, there is always one case in which two people fall in love, their parents don't approve of the relationship (for no reason), they secretly date, and one of them is murdered by the parent. The cops and the surviving significant other find out the reason why the parents don't approve is because the two love birds are somehow related. It's disgusting, but an interesting twist on the "Forbidden Love" trope.
Elsie I've seen it done in NCIS, House, and The Mentalist. In House, no one died, but a couple came into the hospital with the same rare genetic disease. They were married for about a year, but when they found out they were half-siblings, the girl broke it off. The guy still wanted to stay together.
There's a meme for this where every one (including a poorly disguised Hera, heros, Demi's, the husbands of wives Zeus was with, a few pissed off women he slept with, and several monsters and minor gods) storm Olympus. Its very funny when you find it
How to write a good fictional family:
Step 1: Write the Addams family.
Step 2: Profit.
Not just a family but also indvidual relationships.
Gomez and Morticia are goals and watching them genuenly adore each other is a treat , ESPECIALLY in the 1991 and 1993 movies
Amen
FoxHunter No! No! You got it wrong. Step 2 is actually ???. Step 3 is profit.
Step 3: Copyright Lawsuits
I liked the contrast between "The Addams Family" & "The Munsters". The Addams family, extended family excepted, is a family that appears normal. They act and dress weird by choice. They believe their behavior is normal. The Munsters act like a normal family but their appearance sets them appart. Somehow they don't notice they look different from everyone else.
"My mind is bleeding and I don't wanna be on this planet anymore."
What a huge ass mood
Literally everyone in the UK right now
ikr
@@sociallyineptspider-man2366 Checks out one year on.
2:48 My book has an alcoholic Father in it, but he’s a happy drunk so instead of abusing his kids, he won’t stop hugging them😅
LOLOL hey that's a cool subversion!
I don't think I've ever read a story where that has happened. I'd love to read it.
Holly+ You had me in the first half, not gonna lie
Holly I'm writting a book in where a young alcoholic ataches to a child he found abandoned in the streets and goes as far as he can to give the child as much love as he can even though he is riddled with internal and external problems, and ultimately dies for him.
@@rac1equalsbestgame853 Awwww!
As a Mexican who has seen plenty of soap operas, I'm still looking for my missing twin. I haven't found them yet but I'm... pretty sure they're out there.
And only one of you may live.... bwamp bwamp!
@@doodlethealien8889
*Pulls out my broadsword*
Bring it.
Wanna have mine? She's completely useless tho
😂😂😂
When you find them, there will be a sudden dramatic close-up of the reaction to the reveal.
I don’t get incest. But siblings trying to kill each other? Anyone with a brother and/or sister relates to that
Anna Rae Honestly though, I love my younger sibling but there’s been many times where I wanted to hurl there asses into on coming traffic.
The Cain Instinct is activated when you see your sibling
Yup, my sisters been a piece of shizzlesticks to both me and my mom her whole entire life
Really not sure how that is any better than incest. You're essentially going from one Oedipus crime to another.
@@ladygrace7585 The Cain instinct I'm dying😂😂😂
“Who made Incest popular?”
*eyes drift over to Cassandra Clare and George R R Martin*
also every porn website
There's a reason that Flowers In The Attic never went out of print.
People who dont have siblings
The oldest popular stuff is rooted in anime... AT least as far as I've seen.
No... I am not talking about Hentai, either...
I mean regular anime... specifically (or more often) in "Harem" anime... which is supposedly a colossal male-oriented power-fantasy genre (and usually comical)... but if the MC has a sister, in a harem anime.
When "Western" writers started to notice popularity for it grow, and realized there was a market, they just HAD to jump on that cash-cow and start milking. ;o)
Ancient royalty made it famous
I'll be honest. The whole evil step mother trope is just getting overdone. Where are the nice step mothers that the kids don't hate? They exist.
Or how about the stepmom and the evil step-daughter.
@@stephanienoel2902 Legally Blonde?
Well, at lest Howl's Moving Castle did that one right.
Fly away home except she was a girlfriend
I know! my mom has a stepmom and i love her, shes one of the nicest people out there.
Actually the "Jealous Parent" thing is one-hundred percent real.
I can personally confirm that it does exist. My own mother had me extremely young and therefore could never go out and do the things a regular teenager could. So, she took her frustration out on myself by hammering at my self-esteem.
I won't go into the gritty details, but it does happen and when I read it in stories it's either 100% believable because the author probably has a parent like this or it's not believable because the author has never experienced it.
I agree, it is a real thing unfortunately. When I was a preteen and my stepfather would pay any attention to me, my mother would get extremely upset and cause hell for anyone around. It's not something I would ever want to read about in a fictional story, it would just bring up too many bad memories.
I relate to this heavily. My mom is jealous because my older brother and I are great students, good at quite a few things, and are both conventionally attractive. Because she's jealous of our good traits, though, she ignores our nerodivergence and didn't let us get screened for mental illnesses, so we didn't find out till early adult hood that we're both autistic and ADHD.
My mom wasn't even that young, but it constantly felt like she was jealous somehow of my existence??
"Let's get down to business! To destroy... a young boy's... psyche..."
I choked on my water.
"be hard be firm be..."
where is this going...
They did this really well i. Wolfenstein 2.
I feel like there's a lot of people in general who don't even kno what "be a man" really means they just use it as an excuse to do terrible things or peer pressure people into acting a certain way....
A real man doesn't have to take aside their and explain how to "be a man" a real man leads by example and their kids will take notice of how they talk to people, how they handle difficult situations, and above all how they treat life in general...
It's through this that your supposed to discern with your own judgement how to best live your life not by the ideals told to u and beaten into u by some hapless "real MAN" wannabe
"My brain is bleeding and I don't wanna be on this planet anymore."
My senior quote!
Dang you stole it from me 😂
Giant Meteor 2020, Etch-A-Sketch the Earth.
"All she needed was his seed to live happily ever after..."
We have hot tea to spill, guys👌
Bojidara Batanova 🤣🤣🤣
Are you talking about Daenerys Targaryen? Just look what happened when she didn't get it.
*Get the M O P*
Female assassin who needs her love interest to save her every chapter: * reloads gun*
Male lead:??
Female assassin: I have brothers
EllaH Wut? :D
EllaH wtf? No? Have you even read the books?
I don't even know these books but I feel obligated to pick a side
Oh nevermind, I think I misread the comment first... My apologies!
@@ellah2411 no need
Piggybacking off of the abusive family tropes is the trope of having a character forgive the people who physically and psychologically hurt them, because forgiving is "the right thing to do" and "they're family, so they deserve a chance."
Ah there's this fine line between a 'saint' character and a moron. I love pathologically good characters but they are so rare... since they tend to look like a complete idiots if written poorly. It takes right character traits and proper circumstances to pull off... and even THEN there are things which should not be forgiven.
THIS THIS THIS!!! It’s SO important oh my gosh! Not only is it a horrible and annoying trope, it can also be super damaging to anyone who views the media who is a victim of abuse (especially kids) because it can warp peoples trust and reasoning so much- it’s super messed up!
I don't think there is trope I hate more then this.
I think it should be noted that forgiveness of someone who hurt you should be bonded to boundaries and rules to protect yourself. "I forgive" does not mean "I forget and will now allow you to hurt me more." Which is also a trope that is very unhealthy. "I forgive" should mean I will allow myself to heal from what you did but you are never allowed back in my life, except if, by some act of God, you actually change for the better. Boundaries may not always include completely cutting someone out of your life but it certainly can and often should.
So... Meg from Family Guy?
Jenna: “the whole long lost relative thing feels like a reach”
Producers of river dale: “But... but... but, that’s our whole plot line!”
Star wars did it better
I was literally thinking of this show when she said that
Took the words right out of my mouth.
Woahhhhhh guys. You forgot about Archie's abs
Don't forget Archie's abs, that's a whole -musical- side plot of its own
Jenna's videos are the only family I have and I'm okay with that.
love you
lordofentropy so which one of her videos is the abusive alcoholic dad?
@@francoisrd no no no she's a happy family she loves you
I don't know how to react to that
Can you do a video on "HEALTHY FAMILY RELATIONSHIPS"? We need more of that in books!
Yes!
God I love reading about cute sibling bonds.
Yes!! We need more of these
All though I think unhealthy families are kind of cathartic in some way. I grew up in an abusive household, and tbh with you I have no idea how a healthy family dynamic works. I write broken families, not all from my own experiences, though.
Yess! I'd love to see one of those videos!
I’ve seen many mothers be jealous of their children unfortunately, it happens and its ugly.
I have seen it too.
THANK YOU. 🙏🏾
Thankyou. This was literally my childhood. It happens and it's horrible. So sad to hear someone deny it happens.
"Shipping twins."
We see you, Pinecest shippers. And we don't like your opinions.
Same over here. Looking at you itacest
I know the pain, why cant people just appreciate the brother-sister dynamic!
Pinecest?
Me: *has flashbacks* Damn it! I thought I forgot that dark day!
What is pinecest?
I’m surprised you didn’t mention the “parent/parents are dead” trope
Mo Kay I think she mentioned not actually minding this trope. In some stories the parents would be in the way and the hardship of it makes the character more sympathetic and relatable
It’s only bad when it’s done badly.
That's honestly kinda common in real life
But if we kill off the protagonist, then the side characters become the main characters. So basically the hero can almost never die.
@@augustsart5374 all of these are only bad because they arent done nicely.
Oh, don't forget the brother(s) wanting to fight their sister's potential partner because "that's my sister, dude!".
Plot twist: The sister was using the dude to make her brother jealous.
@@jascrandom9855 thanks, I hate it
@@NicoleKah97 lol
@@NicoleKah97
Really? I love it and
At least its better that brothers that fight their sisters because they found out they were dating. The one you mentioned can be done well if they actually have a very good reason to behave like this.
the incest one is so true. I saw a book just today at the library about a brother and sister falling for each other?? Why?? I just don't get it. Still better than the dinosaur erotica though
Dinosaur erotica? tf??!!
@@Cherryblossom-ds7zf yeah... it's a thing.
Cherry blossom I’ve seen stuff like that before
And I thought Japanese Hentai doujins were wierd.
I guess horny creatives around the world make really wierd shit when in a state of MAXIMUM OVERHORNY.
nah nah incest media is far worse than any dinosaur erotica
When I started watching the video, I thought "at least she doesn't have to deal with the dumpster fire that is stepsiblings romance anime"... But then it turns out there're romance novels about *actual* incest??!!
There's Anime about actual incest.
@@jascrandom9855 I suppose there is, but I don't think it's a trend. Just a few outliers
@@taylor_green_9 It was especially present in Harem Anime, usually played for comedy, sometimes for actual drama.
Oreimo is the most famous case if i remember.
@@jascrandom9855 That explains why I don't know much about it. I tend to find harem stories annoying
@@taylor_green_9 Yeah, they were fun at the beginning, but then they became formulaic as fuck and the misogyny less suttle.
For point number 4 can u tell that to the Riverdale writers
LOLOLOL
Fellow potato
A Potato :D hi
Addy The Potato 🥔
A Potato 🥔
The 'jealous mom's actually IS a thing with narcissistic moms. They degrade their daughter's appearance-call her ugly, etc- and crush her self esteem. Effectively projecting all their own shortcomings onto their daughter. Pretty messed up.
Literally Lois From Family Guy
“My brain is bleeding and I don’t wanna be on this planet anymore”
Ugh same
LOL the “She Has Brothers” trope is so annoying and overused.
I would gladly read a "He Has Sisters!!!4!" though. Think about an anti-cliché.
@@leanykakicsi6152 Like a story about a guy who's a ridiculously good cook, is good with kids, dresses fashionably, etc? That'd definitely make some people think real hard about certain tropes and cliches they might not have thought about before.
@@leanykakicsi6152 than there’s is mine “ she now has brothers and a younger sister because she’s adopted “
The "mother envy" trope is literally my grandmother and my mother. Grandma was very jealous of my mom, who was the pretty, popular girl who had a very warm, though normal, relationship with grandpa. Grandma was jealous of both details, and was very cold to mom. The trope exactly.
Just because Jenna has a cool Mom or whatever, doesn't mean the trope doesn't exist. It is a very real life "trope," and some people out there have to deal with that for a mother.
"I've read an actual romance between a father and the daughter" sorry let me just 🤢🤮
"because nothing fixes a toxic relationship like bringing a completely helpless 3rd party into the mix" that part killed me 😂
And it's terrifying that a lot of people actually believe that shit that a baby solves relationship problems 😬
When I was 14, I found out I had an older brother and three nephews I didn't know about. I remember wondering at the time when exactly soap opera writers had taken over my life.
Jenna: when did incest become a thing?!
Jerry Springer: am I a joke to you?!
The World: Mostly yes.
As weird as it sounds, I've seen the "jealous mom" thing play out. My best friend's mom was suuuuuper jealous of her and resented her for "ruining her body" during pregnancy. So she constantly attacked my friend for how she looked because she was jealous of how thin she was/how young she was. It was horrible and it really took a toll on her mental health. (She's okay now. Once she got away from her mother her mental health vastly improved.)
I love every thing about this. Yes, let us use better tropes.
LOL yes! Thank you!
And to everyone about to ask, patrons get to see videos early: patreon.com/jennamoreci
Samantha Ortiz+ Yo how did you post this three weeks ago
UA-cam screwing things up again I guess
....how was this posted three weeks ago....
The father in my story isn’t an alcoholic but he’s such an asshole. He hates his son because he’s a hemophiliac and so in his eyes he’s weak. The prince grows up to despise his father. His first act as King is to take over a city that his father was never able to subdue. Basically he does this to spite his father and in his head he’s doing something his father never could. Plus, one time the King was gifted a beautiful horse but he couldn’t tame it. The prince stayed up all night until the next day chasing the horse until it finally let him come close to it. Then he climbs onto the horse and rides it around and his best friend (who stayed up with him all night) starts whooping and shouting. But he’s so exhausted he slumps against the horses neck and falls off and is in a terrible state for a week. Anyways yeah, I’m writing a shitty relationship between the prince and his father but his best friend, the main character of the story, has a beautiful relationship with his mother because they only ever had each other. So yeh.
My girlfriend is better at changing tires than I am. Take that, trope #2.
A counter example for #3 that I enjoy from YA series the Brotherband Chronicles has the father figure being a recovering alcoholic and uses his familial ties to help get past some major depression. That was one thing I liked about those books.
While I enjoyed the City of Bones books, trope #10 made it much more painful than it needed to be.
Brian Le Wolfhunt The city of bones to me was enjoyable until the incest happened
When you first read it you're like "okay she didn't knew, but now she knows so this can be dropped right"
And then you discover how wrong you were, so wrong, oh god
Don't forget the step parents and step siblings are evil trope or the wonderful parents died and now their kid is being raised by abusive relatives trope. Also, there's the parent (usually the dad), pays too much attention to their job instead of spending time with their kids trope. I know these things happen in real life, but they're too common in fiction.
My grandma was jealous of my mom, but my grandma had... issues. At least she was a good grandmother to me.
I've met a woman who was jealous of the beauty of her daughter. It was just sad.
Jenna uploading more than once a week? Am I in heaven? I know you're a busy lady Jenna, but thank you for making time for us!!
awwwww you're so sweet!!!!
I know right? Made my day!
This is something I didn’t know I needed. Thank you, Jenna.
you're so welcome!
"It's the murderous king...who squirted you into existence." That legit made me laugh so hard, I had to pause the video before I choked on my dinner. Classic, Jenna. 🤣🤣🤣
#7 isn't entirely fake, though I can see why it might seem so. My mother has always been the "intolerant of girl-children" type. Not because of any youth and beauty nonsense, but because in her world, other women, even small ones you gave birth to, are competition for male attention/validation. I don't think it's all that common, but it's certainly fucked up, to be sure.
That is just... low. Male attention? Seriously? No offence, but she needs help, mate. Or a husband that would assure her.
"mothers being jealous of their daughter's beauty sounds fake"
Me: um..... have you meet my mother?
Tehe love your vids
Point 3. You know what I need? Alcoholic MOMS.
My mom is alcoholic and while it’s not like abuse bad, it does put strain on relationships AND I NEVER SEE IT DONE. I feel lonely sometimes, please someone write an alcoholic mom for me. Please
It feels like I see quite this a bit, though I can't think of any examples off the top of my head.
There was the game Among the Sleep that had the mother be the alcoholic one. It's the only example I can think of.
I was planning on writing alcoholic mom trope. But basically every story people have told me of having alcoholic parents of either gender irl have always been abuse stories so I don't think anything I write would make you feel any less lonely, since I am just basing that character on the things I hear. Hopefully others can find stories that reflect your situation tho.
You got it!
Sandra sat down in the living room, her legs tucked into herself. She looked over her shoulder, into to hallway illuminated by nothing but the flickering overhead light. She sighed to herself, shaking her head. Her mother never really paid much attention to the state of the house. For that reason Sandra had to force herself to be responsible, to fill in where her mother would fail. She couldn't afford to falter, because if she did, she wouldn't be able to afford the house. Work was something that seemed to fall into her hands young, beginning with more trivial things like delivering the newspapers, growing into other activities and once she was old enough, officialized work. And while Sandra was resentful of the woman, she could never bring herself to hate her. She resented the rut she was trapped in, the poverty she brought upon them. Above all she despised what her mother was doing to her body, she despised all the nights the woman spent passed out on the kitchen floor and the methods she used to even attain money. Being the breadwinner for her home, Sandra was caught between her own desires, her dream to become a model, and her duty to not only her mother, but her younger brother as well. Having been stretched out by life, she had a grand heart, but little means to accomplish anything that it desires. A part of her dispensed with her dreams, while the other part of her, one that lived when she shut her eyes at night, whispered otherwise. During the day she kept that dream locked in her heart, smoothed her hair and wore a smile as she faced the world that turned her mother into a slave of her own body.
This was a brief little ficlet thingy I wrote. It's not that great, but here, Merry Christmas. You're absolutely right, it's not done at all. And I know some people that have mothers like this, but it gets no attention at all. It's always the father, which is unfair.
4:05 "Squirted you into existence"
That's one way of putting it!
*_"Who's writing these stories...?!"_*
* Cut to Japan fidgeting uncomfortably and hiding in the corner *
I dropped my tea for this.
Literally, it's all over my floor.
That's rough buddy
I know you shouldn't cry over spilled tea but *sniff sniff* it's just so sad
I have four sisters. Trust me, our lives growing up was not all cute-and-sexy, "ooh, slumber party/make-up/spin-the-bottle!" grossness. It was screaming and vitriol, ripping hair out of each others scalps, and sitting on each other so we couldn't get the remote -- specifically me because I'm the youngest and wanted to watch cartoons. I am _convinced_ that anyone who legitimately ships siblings together is either an only child or has wanted to fuck their own sibling/siblings themselves.
I fully acknowledge that there are people out there with really shitty parents and so I'm glad that there are novels that exist for them to relate to, but I personally have really awesome parents and for once it would be so nice to read about parents who are just great! It is possible to have problems and conflict in your life without awful parents. Also Jenna I just want to tell you that i've been binging all your videos and they have really inspired me to get back into writing, so thank you SO much. You have no idea how much you have helped!!
Some person: tell me about your book
Writer: Well the main character is a mechanic who is working on her masters degree in statistics but then-
Some person: woah woah woah. I thought you were writing a realistic book, not fantasy
:)
Fantasy, but not because of gender roles. I can see a mechanic going towards engineer/physicist/management, but upgrading a career towards stats is pretty odd.
Writer: and she has brothers-
Some person: ooh that makes more sense!
I somehow read maniac instead of mechanic but your comment still made sense 😂
"Wouldn't they be proud they passed on pretty genes" *laughs in abused/neglected daughter*
Sadly jealous mothers is a thing that happens. My mother gets jealous of my successes - she can't congratulate me, but turns the conversation back to her own past triumphs. She's not jealous of my looks though - LOL
I don't know about mainstream romances but incest has been popular in erotica and porn longer than youtube exists. Probably since the invention of fantasies that are unsuitable for minors.
And frankly, from all of the taboo "fun in erotic fiction, but let's not do this in real life" kinks, incest is one of the more harmless ones (I've been in too many debates about what is fiction on the whole allowed to do and what not and why do single individuals think their moral real-life standards should be the guideline. Before, my opinion was "I don't care about incest in fiction but it's absolutely the worst and disgusting in real life." After: "You know what? From all the not okay things people do in fiction, I'd rather have a couple of siblings I'm friends with confessing they are in love than that they're rapists, murderers, killer clowns, serial cheaters, animal abusers, abusers in general, keep animals in fridges to watch them die, cannibals... Yikes-factor aside, from all the many wrongs people do in real life, it's one of those few I wouldn't end a friendship over.")
I agree, though, that it doesn't belong in mainstream romance, like any other taboo or kink. Especially not since mainstream romance is still treated as an instruction manual covered in frills and purple prose for the ideal real-life romance.
^ This.
Personally I see it as a betrayal of confidence which makes nothing safe like other types of domestic violence and abuse but worse because it’s intimate. Normalising it in writing etc is in my opinion beyond the pale. It breaks people.
I’ve seen mothers who were jealous of their own daughters before. Specifically if the moms boyfriend takes interest in the child. I think that may have even happened to a cousin of mine to some extent.
4:11 I read a romance novel once where the leading lady was the CEO of a company. Her husband and her in-laws thought that her focusing on her career was the end of the world. So what did the love of her life and his parents do? Did he discuss his concerns with the woman he claims to love and want to spend his life with? Of course not, that would be the sane and respectful this to do. Instead by his parents advice, he decides to meddle with their protection to ensure there’d be a bun in the oven. Thus thwarting her career goals for at least 9 months. When she found out what he did she then realized she was at fault for not putting his wants and needs first, despite the fact he had never brought it up before. I was fairly disturbed after reading that book.
What's the book, so I may never pick it up? (Seriously, ew!)
Solora Goldsun I’m really sorry but I read this book years ago and I can’t remember the title for the life of me. I guess my mind wanted to be rid of that toxic bullshit.
“I don’t have brothers, and I can’t even wipe my own ass! It’s filthy!” Why did that make me laugh so hard
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE LAST ONE!!!! Incest is becoming way too popular in fiction. I don't know what other word to use for it, other than 'epidemic'.
I'm curious why do you feel incest is bad?
@@dustinmccollum7196 Because under no circumstances should anyone see anybody they're related to as a sexual partner. Wtf it's not like there's a shortage of people on the planet. Go find someone you're not related to
@@Dragonmastur that's not a valid reason. Why shouldn't they find someone there related to Attractive? Is it morally wrong? Your not giving a valid reason. Your just saying under no circumstances should this happen. Also what does the amount of people have to do about it. You cant make some love someone else.
Your using the same excuse people used to stop gay & Interracial couples.
It doesnt fit your world view so it icky and wrong.
@@horrortyrant6826 again what's wrong? Your just saying you shouldnt.
@@dustinmccollum7196 Besides the fact that it is gross, with fewer new genes, and the same ones being recycled around, you greatly increase the chances of there being something wrong with the resulting child if you have one. Interracial and gay couples do not result in that. Plus interracial couple and gay couples don't necessarily fuck their own family
#7 I met that mother when I was a wedding photographer. She was soooo jealous of her daughter the bride and desperate to be the center of attention. LOL
First love your channel! And these lists!
My least favorite trope when it comes to fiction is forced family conflict. In my story, Micheals dad doesn't want him to go and be a wizard even kicking out his familiar, BUT (even though this hasn't been revealed yet). His mother and grandmother were murdered because they practiced magic by a cult. This cult is going to be the main antagonist of the story. Giving both a mini conflict and my protagonist a history with the antagonist.
5:54 sadly it does exist , my grandmother is this type of women
I actually had a friend whose mom kept stealing her bfs... It was gross and she couldn't go a day without her mom putting her down and screwing her over
I knew a teen girl whose mother was jealous of ANY attention any man or boy gave her. Mom wanted all the attention.
Okay, that's really screwed up. I mean what the heck was the goal here?
She was used to being THE hot young thing in the room and didn't like losing that title when her daughter hit puberty. Like the stepmother in Snow White.
@@bkmaxfield5113
How far did she go with that? If the mom of my crush suddenly became flirtatious that would be beyond irritating.
@@Alias_Anybody The daughter spent a lot of time at our house and stopped bringing boys home. It did mess the daughter up, though. She only liked boys that she could steal from their girlfriends.
The fact that people write a lot about dysfunctional families with an alcoholic father at the center can tell quite a lot about how big this problem actually is in the society D:
I hate the trope that’s common in sitcoms where it’s like “lol they’re disfunctional”
Perfect timing! I'm starting to consider a story that is about a family.
Wow that sounds boring lol 😂
no it doesn't!
@@JennaMoreci. Is it bad if I want to have a "prologue" focusing on the previous generations of the family to establish what being apart of this family means? Cause I'm worried about the length of it
/confused sounds in jjba/
It’s always great to have informative insight on Bad Family Tropes in fictional stories.
I’m currently planning out my novel, so this is greatly appreciated in giving me some insight on how to avoid these mistakes.
For 7’s defence, my former friend’s mother was jealous of her
I knew “Missing Parents” would be the first point lmaoooo
Thank you for the content warnings, Jenna. It doesn't roast me to hear about them (I worked in a firm that dealt with child abuse cases), but there is so much of that out there that I know it can wound people in a terribly personal manner. Another great post!
When I first started writing my book my MC had terrible parents, I started again years later and they were much nicer. She had enough terrible crap to deal with, the least I could do for her was give her loving parents. (Her mother-in-law, on the other hand, IS awful.)
#5 is every 90s hallmark Christmas special ever
I'm so glad someone mentioned the abusive father trope. At first, it made you feel bad for the characters, but then it started to be surprising to see a GOOD father in a book/tv show/movie.
2:25 “I don’t have brothers, and I can’t even wipe my ass. It’s filthy!” - Jenna 2019
2:20 I remember seeing a tumblr writing prompt that suggested a subversion of this. Basically, a girl knew how to fight because her brothers all had “feminine” hobbies or behavior and she learned how to fight to protect them
Working as an editor, I can honestly say I’m shocked at how many manuscripts contain sexual assault on women. Often it happens in the story but then never connects to anything in the story. It is very triggering for me as a victim of abuse, and I’ve never worked for a publisher who’d consider a manuscript with sexual assault that is described and not a backstory elements that they’re overcoming in contemporary dramas or literary fiction.
Oof. I envy your innocence. In most fandoms father daughter ships are less popular. Father son ships are a lot more common. My poor eyes
"Who made incest popular?"
me: *cough*, Oedipus Rex *cough* *cough
Alcoholic abusive dad bothers me for a lot of reasons. Notably because Abusive Dad as a trope seems to be a default for so many writers. It's like they think their characters can't be really motivated to leave home without at least one shitty parent.
Long lost twin: "Next they're gonna get amnesia and fall in love with a wizard"
Me:*Silently puts copy of FF8 back into the shelf*
Sometimes cliched family tropes are fun to play against by turning them on their heads or just by bringing them to their logical conclusions (usually ending in disaster).
People ship for all kinds of reasons, not necessarily always because they condone such relationships irl but because they want to see dark themes explored.
Makes sense. Same reason people read about serial killers, kidnappers, etc.
@Sydney Hendricks my point was that you don't always know why someone ships a thing. Or why they're into the fiction they're into it. Most people know incest is wrong, the people you're describing are probably just overzealous teens that will likely outgrow that mentality. I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule, but they're still not the rule. Also about the serial killer comparison, ever seen the show Dexter & it's fandom?
@Sydney Hendricks Meh. Anecdotal examples from the internet I find to be unreliable & I own I'm just using my own experience as one too. Anyway, I didn't want this to turn into like an actual argument, so you have a lovely day. Bye, bye.
@Sydney HendricksI am just saying in general. I'm sure there are people that genuinely ship incest and think it is cute, and at the same time there are people that just read it for the dark or taboo factor.
Knowing serial killers are bad means nothing. The same happens to books about murder and serial killings. Some people enjoy reading and writing about the darker parts of humanity, and some people have a fetish for murderers (hybristophilia) and read/write serial killer books not to be dark, but to be romanticized or eroticized.
Everything is completely dependent on the narrative, the author's purpose for said narrative, and the reader's own interpretation. It is highly unwise to assume every story or reader of said story will be like the people or stories you have encountered.
When you mentioned Incest romances I just thought of 'A little Hatred' by Joe Abercrombie.
Because of the previous series, the readers knows these 2 lovers are siblings but the characters themselves don't.
I'm very conflicted because I ended up shipping them somewhere down the line.
#10. Cassandra Clare and George R R Martin angrily whispering to each other while George Lucas slowly sidesteps out of frame...
I...honestly didn’t know the “She Has Brothers” trope was a thing.
Speaking of a too popular story idea: I was doing quite a lot of research for a romance where about half the characters are Blackfeet (a tribe in Montana). _Quite a lot of research._ I didn't want to create a sequel to the first book, but thought at some point I might write another book with Blackfeet characters-to recycle my research. Rather than a contemporary, perhaps a historical next time. Historically speaking, white men married to Indian women was pretty common. So I thought I'd turn that around to create something unique: White man living with the Blackfeet has a best bud. His posh sister from back east comes out for a visit and becomes intrigued by her brother's tall, dark, and handsome friend. Cue the violin music...
Reading both modern and historic western romances I ran across a similar story: White girl (blond of course) raised by Indians since she was a child, has to fight to hang on to her "noble savage" lover so she can have the HEA that's so important to the genre. And then I saw another, and another, and another. Turns out white woman paired with an Indian man is a super popular western romance trope. But white man and Indian woman? None. Indian on Indian romance? Never seen it. Perhaps I go book shopping in the wrong places.
But it makes sense. It's white women who buy these things. They want to dream about a lover who is completely different than their pasty husband dozing in the EZ chair instead of doing the after dinner dishes or helping with the kids. Where has the magic gone? It must be in a man who is different, exotic, and with dark smoldering eyes. Or skin that sparkles in the sun. Sparkly skin was popular for awhile.
So that's my new idea: Mid-19th-century woman who's a crusty no-nonsense trader with the Blackfeet, has a best friend. They gossip and have a good ol' girl time, skinning buffalo and whatnot. Woman's posh brother from back east comes out for a visit and is intrigued by his sister's strong, graceful, "savage" friend. The friend can save the brother from certain death-perhaps a supernatural danger, like wolverine woman. Cue the violins...
Don't know about white women, but Blackfeet women will buy it.
PS: Love you, Jenna.
I like that.
I'm not Blackfeet, but I'd still buy it.
Tag me once you publish it!
I suspect the reason we don’t see romance novels where the woman is native and the man is white is because even though that was a common practice in history, it likely wasn’t very romantic and was highly exploitive.
Most of those real relationships were based on white people using their power to exploit natives. White men chose native woman because they had no power and had do whatever the man wants. It’s a male wish fulfillment fantasy to have a woman who is both dependent on him for protection from society and who also meets his sexual and physical needs without complaint. Hence why this trope only happens in fictional stories aimed at a male demographic, but not in romance movies or novels aimed at women.
Hmm I don’t think one I know had ever mentioned about Family tropes, at least not to my knowledge
If #10 bothers you that much (it bothers me, too), I hope you don’t watch anime.
As for #3, “just add alcohol” (or drugs) seems to be a common way to make a story “mature”. It drives me nuts. Yes, alcoholics exist, and yes, they frequently ruin their families’ and their own lives.
But there are so many other serious situations adults go through. Is that really all these writers can think of?
Not all anime is incest, I know plenty that aren't, it's just the bad fanfiction writers that turn it into the monster people think it is
DemonWings No there are real life incest anime out there.
Queen Monarch but there are just as many without them lol take it from someone who watches lots of anime but still avoids incest so there are quite a bit that isn’t insest
Also in the worst family tropes, the father or brother figure who thinks they have a say on the female protagonist's friends or love interest(s). Duh, nobody asked you, Brian.
On the flip sife, my favourite family tropes:
- the estranged siblings making peace after going through hardship together
- children trying hard to live up to their parents impossibly high status (for instance they're a sports prodigy or a powerful wizard, while the protagonist is just a regular kid with no special talent)
- characters super protective of their parents, or parental figure, who go through hell and back to take them to safety /cure their disease /take them out of poverty (you get the gist)
- families where noone is actually related, because they all chose to be together
Gets me everytime.
I love all of these too!!
"Who's writing these stories? Mountain people??" Lmfaoooo
I wish Jenna would do a video for that trope where siblings are separated from each other and raised by different people..
Boys from pint number 8: "ill keep all my emotions right here, and then one day, ill die."
1:58 Dude I could barely leave my house at 16. I’m 18 and I’m barely allowed to date. 😂
One of my MCs was disowned by his parents, but he found out how to get the love and care of a family, even if some of them are in prison or in a foster home
"I've even seen an actual romance between a father and daughter."
*_fireworks literally goes off outside as you say that_*
*_is currently in the south..._*
The secret family member thing has actually happened to my cousins in real life. So apparently before my uncle got with my aunt he got another lady pregnant and left and then he had my two cousins. Then one of the cousins we were close with was shot in a gun accident. And years later we found out about the other sister. Kinda sad but it does occasionally happen which is kinda weird
I honestly can't get enough of Jenna's videos, they're really helpful and I learned a lot about writing.
The Missing Parents always gets me. Drives me nuts! Especially since the conflict could be made a whole lot easier if they just told their parents.
I also utterly loathe the Incompetent Dad trope-Dads can be good parents? Yes, yes they can!
SAME! I can't stand it and its so overdone!
I’ve been feeling down about my WIP recently, mostly from lack of energy now that I’m getting ready for graduation and I’ve still got tons of homework and uni things to complete. But watching this and “10 best family tropes” has reminded me of everything I’ve done right with my characters and story. I’ve worked hard to make healthy, relatable, and interesting characters/ relationships. Thank you so much Jenna for these reminders and helpful tips ❤️
In many cop shows I watch, there is always one case in which two people fall in love, their parents don't approve of the relationship (for no reason), they secretly date, and one of them is murdered by the parent. The cops and the surviving significant other find out the reason why the parents don't approve is because the two love birds are somehow related. It's disgusting, but an interesting twist on the "Forbidden Love" trope.
That happened in the first season of Riverdale too. Like holy crap, beat for beat.
Elsie
I've seen it done in NCIS, House, and The Mentalist. In House, no one died, but a couple came into the hospital with the same rare genetic disease. They were married for about a year, but when they found out they were half-siblings, the girl broke it off. The guy still wanted to stay together.
@@longliveplanetawesome3223 Yikes
When trigger warnings trigger you: *DOUBLE TRIGGERED!!!*
The only way I can think of “long lost family member” working for long term is if your father is Zeus
There's a meme for this where every one (including a poorly disguised Hera, heros, Demi's, the husbands of wives Zeus was with, a few pissed off women he slept with, and several monsters and minor gods) storm Olympus. Its very funny when you find it
Savanna C. Garza I was actually thinking of it when I wrote that lol. But thank you! It’s a funny meme