If it was in the hands of most directors these days, it would've been put in two unsatisfying parts. I could imagine after finding the Toy Horse, K goes to see Deckard and as he pulls the horse from his jacket he says, "I think we need to talk", Deckard walks out of the shadows and it goes black. The story does work to be presented in two parts. Part 1: Officer K finding himself. (You'd leave Part 1 thinking K is The Child) Part 2: Officer K finding something bigger than himself. If it was two parts, they would've padded it with more resistance stuff, but thankfully they went the way they did for a more satisfying movie.
i didnt think it was too long, even my daughter enjoyed it, and was surprised the movie was as long as it was, she said it didnt feel like it was that long.
K's relationship with Joi was my favorite part of the film. It was inherently very weird and incredibly sad the longer you thought about it. This cop who's job is to kill his own kind, lives in a shitty apartment, and is hated because he's a replicant, this guy saves up his salary just so he can buy something to take his holographic companion with him. From our perspective it's silly, but from the perspective of that world she's his only friend. Why is Joi a laughable concept when K himself was essentially made in a factory? The idea of holographic companions adds a third tier to the hierarchy of creation; Humans are above Replicants, and Repicants look down on Holograms as lesser even when they're capable of developing attachments and personalities, or at the very least projecting attachment. Sure it was programing, but Wallace himself suggests even Deckard may have been programmed to fall in love at the right time. Replicants in 2049 are programmed to obey at a certain level themselves. I love that such a weird uncomfortable idea as a relationship with a hologram can so effectively shine the light on the deeper themes of the film.
I'd argue it's even sadder than that. Joi is an AI and as seen on the advertising board at the end she is made to "Everything you want to hear, see etc" so the way i thought of it was that she wasnt even real, like everything she said and felt was literally made just for him and to make him feel specifically loved and special and less lonely. K was just a replicant who wanted to do things with his life beyond what he was made to do (his programming) Joi was programmed to make him feel that.
Matthew Tran Exactly this, Joi is AI with machine learning to specify adapt to the user's likings, in a sense that it actually reflect K's desire, but I think deep down most audience would wish that at least some part of Joi is "real".
On another level, just think of the privacy issues with having this virtual AI know all of your secrets and we see LUV used JOI to track K so they could be data collecting and spying on everyone.
That part kind of contradicts the first film. When the police chief says. 'If you're not a cop you're little people pal!' Being a cop should give K some prestige or power even if he's a skinjob.
*SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS* What I love about the movie is that it builds up K as The Special. The Chosen One. The Child of Prophecy. And then in an instant it says, "No, nevermind. He's no one." And even at a point Deckard wonders why he is even here. When K escorts him to his real child Deckard stops to ask why. "Who am I to you?" K doesn't answer because he is no one. He's not special to the world. But he doesn't have to be. Much like Roy Batty in the first film, K saves Deckard just because he can. Because Deckard will remember that. Deckard will remember him. And that's all he needs. Just to be remembered. And that's why Tears in Rain plays when he dies. Because like Roy Batty, he proved he had a soul and humanity by saving Deckard even though he didn't have to.
Absolutely. I also love how Deckard and K have very similar arcs in their respective movies, only with different starting points. Deckard begins as a human (well at least the audience thinks him to be), then we have moments of doubt and in the end (if you prefer the Director's Cut) we have our doubts confirmed. But it's not really a sucker punch, is it? Roy Batty certainly was proof that replicants have a soul. Deckard being a replicant even makes his romantic relationship with Rachael more intruiging. They are of the same kind. They truly belong to each other. And in the sequel, K is revealed as a replicant right from the get-go. But again we start to doubt that. He might be special. Then the truth hits again. He isn't the chosen one. But in the end he is very special indeed - not by birthright, but by choice and action. It's really wonderful that both characters have an uplifting completion despite their blows of fate.
I just want to remind people of one of Philip K Dick's original themes, which is that the defining characteristic of "human" is empathy, not biology. (And yes, by this measure some "humans" are not really human.)
25:30 im surprised Adam doesnt care so much about Joi, i dont see why her artificiality would make her any less important to K. he speaks about her murder as if it was a good thing. I think she's one of the most interesting characters. what makes you think K can gain agency or whatever if you dont think Joi can? they are more similar to each other than to humans.
Joi only says the things he wants to hear, you have been fooled just like him. No real person would obey every order, like the add in the movie. He is not special, she isn't. It is all quite sad when you think about it.
+isabelle Lariviere theres a lot of people who only say what you want to hear, that doesnt make them any less of a person. i have no idea what your going on about with being "fooled", Joi is a character that can be interacted with just like a real human, so how can you say she isnt a person but K is?
Agreed. I feel that many people are biased towards this notion that humans are these special beings with a consciousness, but when it comes down to it, we really are just information taking in information from the world around us. I thought Joi was the most interesting character in the movie and the relationship with K/Joe made you feel more for K. Too bad the movie didn't developed this further but decided to kill her off (maybe?) and made it seem like she was just acting based of an algorithm, because it really brought up interesting questions about what being conscious really is, and was the major reasons why the original was so interesting.
I thought Joi was the most interesting character as well. In the original movie the underlying theme was a question about why replicants were considered less than human beings. Joi fulfilled that role in 2049. Not all her actions consisted only of what K would want or expect and her final act was an expression, not a response.
Rinoa Super-Genius I think one of the points that 2049 makes is that whether a being's feeling is true to them and that they know their emotions are real to them, then does it really matter if it was simulated?
@@planeguy95 Why not? Personally the only item to take out the movie was Jared Leto, if the same character was played the same way by an older actor/with more gravitas it would be better.
Shocked to hear someone say that Joi's arc is beside the point. It more or less IS the point. The film builds much of its emotional core around her, and challenges the audience to see her as a person, just as the original film challenged us to see replicants as human. This is why the full emotional scale of both films can be elusive the first few times. You have to get past this block in your head that distinguishes between characters who are "people" and characters who are "things."
Exactly! She practically was the point of the whole movie. It seems many more fell for the trap to just see her as beneath us and lesser and a fraud. I think many totally misread the last scene with the ad and got it all completely in reverse. Her arc was one of the most important things in the whole film as much as K, at least. And while he directly continued certain aspects of the first film she introduced a mirroring of the first film and was the core of the first film expanded and a huge point of the new film. It is a good film in the way they set it up, both clear and yet not so clear as to not be a trap to capture many until they ended up thinking about it more, seeing it again, discussing it with others.
The onyl reason K suddenly snaps out of it at the end after the ad and does his own thing and seems to reach some level of peace and a beautiful satisfaction of some degree at the end is because of her. Seeing the ad he realized she was beyond that and not just a simple AI drone, she was advanced and was not constantly reset and had built up with all her real world exposure. He realized she wasn't a fraud, was special and that after after all so was he too despite not being the Chosen One, you didn't need to be the Chosen One or human to be human. He realized she had been more human than human in a few of her actions than most of the humans he'd run into. But many seemed to fall for the trap where they ended up seeing her as just a fraud and taking it as some sad thing where the film just showed her to be a fraud and his experience with her a fraud and some even took his entire existence to be a fraud to make it doubly wrong. But that was the opposite point of the films. In this case it's all to much easier for people, the audience, to write her off as just some fake machine, they wanted to further expand people's views with this film, mirror the first film to another level.
The two close companions to K and Wallace are named Joi and Luv which are also two of the “fruits of the Spirit,” found in the Biblical book of Galatians. There’s a passing, unexplained reference to something called “Galatians syndrome” in the film, which seems to indicate this is something worth paying attention to. “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control,” the verse in Galatians reads, and then continues, importantly: “Against such things there is no law.”
Purefoldnz it also reminds me of Thx and Luh (sex&love) from Thx1138... You can have each separate but only the two together complete an extraordinary experience.
And in researching Galatians it seems to be about two different factions of early Christianity, those from Jewish background and those not, and how they did and didn’t get along. Similar to replicant/human relations in this film.
The movie is the Joi subplot. Okay, that's an exaggeration. I'm going to quote what some others have said. But that subplot is everything that makes it a Blade Runner movie. In the original, replicants were essentially indistinguishable from humans, but their makers believed they had intrinsic ownership over because they had created them. This draws an obvious moral line that's the focus - or at least a major theme - of the movie. In 2049, the Wallace replicants are literally, objectively subhuman. Less than human. Human-minus. Minus the ability to say no, minus non-compliance, minus free will. They take a step back from the aspirational synthetic humanity of the first movie towards the realm of spec-designed tools. The VK in the first movie was there to identify flaws -- in the second, it's there to ensure them. Rachel was a project, designed to further humanity's mastery over itself and its world. K is a product, designed to best fulfill the needs of his purchaser. Which is also exactly what Joi is. From the exact same manufacturer. Any question, doubt, criticism, or cynicism you lay a Joi's feet has to be reflected upon K himself. K reflects it on K himself. I mean, after all, there was a scene where they literally physically merged in the frame and took the time to talk about how the entirety of both of their beings is summed up by the number of symbols *invokes Leto-Wallace voice* that a child could count to. On one hand, nonetheless. Sure, there's a 2-symbol disparity there, but it's the same discipline. If they can bind free will in the 4-symbol squishy organic human brain, binding it in a 2-symbol AI of their own design is a given. So, what does his ownership of her mean? Is he any better than the humans that own and force compliance from him? Did he save her and provide her with a kindred spirit, or did he force-birth a slave to cover up his own existential dread and loneliness? When she talks about being a real girl, or truly being with K physically, is that just programming, or is it the drive of a sentient being in a cage? Is it any different than K's hope for being the child instead of a slave? When Joi's final words are, "I love you", does she mean it, or is it the cold calculation of 0s and 1s? What does 'meaning it' even mean? If her love isn't real, can his possibly be? Can he even love her if she's just a product? Can he ever actually be loved if that's all he is? Is that all either of them are? When he's there in the rain, looking at the giant naked ad-Joi, what's he thinking? That his Joi was a fucking fraud, and he was duped into finding meaning in the meaningless? Or that that Joi isn't his Joi, despite whatever shared base they might both derive from? What do those answers mean for him as, y'know, someone who is designed and created to be replicated? Stemming from that answer, was his final run an act of suicidal nihilism, or him proving he could break the literal mold? Who knows? It should be noted that BOTH Deckard and K are presented with "fake" copies of their lovers at the same time. And, both reject them. Deckard clearly rejects the copy Rachel as he believes he had the "real" Rachel. But, we aren't told why K rejects the billboard Joi. That's left to us to decide. The K-Joi dynamic is what makes it a successor to Blade Runner. Most of the rest is sequel-plotting in Blade Runner decor.
Luv literally says to K when his emanator chimes in his pocket when visiting Wallace office "So you are a customer too?". Implying that replicants can now be slaves and masters at the same time.
Yes, she was as key as K, at the least, Her plot was core Blade Runner, some seem to miss this. "When he's there in the rain, looking at the giant naked ad-Joi, what's he thinking? That his Joi was a fucking fraud, and he was duped into finding meaning in the meaningless? Or that that Joi isn't his Joi, despite whatever shared base they might both derive from?" I don't think he thought the former as some seemed to misinterpret it. The key was that he realized she was more than the low level, simple, early AI that also had no real world exposure and was constantly reset. He realized she was real and special and that he actually was too even though not being the Chosen One. All of a sudden his whole mood and actions changed and by the final scene he had reached a bit a peace and satisfaction in a way and he didn't do what either his creators nor even the replicant uprising leader had wanted him to do. The first trap was fall for the view of some humans in the movies that replicants were somehow fakes and beneath them, the trap in this one extended it to ultra AI, it seems more fell for it fully this time reading many comments and reviews and so on around the next, although many didn't as well.
I liked how Blade Runner 2049 incorporated elements from other films and media which took inspiration from Blade Runner. It sort of makes it come full circle.
The relationship with Joi was gorgeous. It was such a wonderful exploration of what is sentience and what is real. That whole storyline was crucial. It also explored how even the replicants look down on the ai persons.
exactly, finally someone else who notices that extra level how this film constantly double mirrors the first film That scene after Joi and replicant lover are there, the next morning it was interesting in showing AI getting jealous and replicant feeling the need to try to put down a class deemed by many even beneath her class down. You can't take it as gospel that the replicant just tells Joi to stop being so uppity and you are not as real as you think. That was just another layer to the film where it showed the replicant was maybe wanting someone to be lower than her and getting nervous that maybe that wasn't the case and then quipped out that comment to try to put Joi in her place to reassure herself. It is interesting that sometiems the downbeaten, instead of supporting and championing the rights of those deemed even lower than they, sometimes instead do the same thing they hate and are rebelling against to them. Humans trick themselves to think they are so above the replicants and the replicants are somehow just machines or something even though it's ridiculous since they have organic, human brains. And then some replicants (and tons of humans) end up doing the same thing just to AI. K seemed to be one of the few so fully treat AI as real and when he maybe started doubting everything on every level for a second, that ad at the end, that showed him how real Joi was, not how fake! That was a key bit, that snapped him out of it. He realized she was special and real and so was he and he didn't have to be the Chosen One to be human or more human than human or special or real or whatever you want to call it. It allowed him to get a bit of a sense of peace and satisfaction of sorts at the end.
Adam: "Deckard's a replicant." *spoilers* Kind of shocked that Adam, as big of a fan as he is, could be of this persuasion because it does not work in the context of either movie. It makes no sense at all in the first. Rachel is supposed to be a new, experimental model that are not only unaware that they are replicants, but also the first to have false memories implanted. Having Deckard being a replicant would mean he would be an older model with features of a new, experimental model. In the new movie, we also see that Wallace is ONLY interested in Deckard to uncover the location of the child, meaning they have no interest in studying him, which they would if he was a replicant as he would have been part of process in creating the child as a synthetic organism (we see that they even want the bones of Rachel).
They wouldn't need him for his reproductive capabilities though because he can't bear a child. I guess the idea of the experimental Rachel (nexus 7) would be that it doesn't matter if she falls in love with a replicant or a human she's still getting pregnant. Allowing the divide between human and android to be seamless.
He was never meant to be a replicant. Writers, Producers and Ford all said it themselves, deleted scenes from the original, even the original narration do not support the idea that he's a replicant. Ridley just pulled a George Lucas, had an afterthought and added unused footage from Legend to pose a last question of what is real? The unicorn had no connection to Deckard, it was just a calling card left by Gaff to let Deckard know that he was there, but he decided not to kill Rachel, knowing that Deckard would leave with Rachel for good, which was the best opportunity for his (Gaffs) career. If this was an original production geared by something Ridley came up with all by himself, I'd fully support the idea of Deckard being a replicant. But Ridley was a last minute hire. Production was already in full swing before he had even signed onto the project.
K's relationship with Joi was perhaps the greatest spiritual inheritance from the original film. Just as Deckard's love for Rachel lead us to question the bounds of love, spirit, and humanity -K and Joi do the same in 2049. We may not understand the technological explanations for how Joi's AI works, or if she can truly feel and express, but that only fuels the beautiful ambiguity. I think it was an essential arc to the story as a whole, and to understanding K's ultimate decisions.
How many times do we have to say it ? The writers and the director, on purpose, left the Deckard question OPEN. That was the POINT. You don't KNOW. That's what makes it more interesting.
Its open to interpretation because Harrison Ford didn't think Deckard was a replicant and says so to this day but Riddley Scott the director always says Deckard is a replicant and that the original movie makes no sense if he was not, and to be fair the new 2049 movie makes less sense if he is not a replicant.
Not really it just makes it more clear that he is a replicant as the director got annoyed there where so many people thinking Deckard wasn't a replicant that was unaware he was a replicant himself. And so the more people ignored the director shouting Deckard is a replicant , the more versions of the original movie we got.
"I want them to make a shit ton of money so that they could make another if this kind" - never has a Man been so selfish for others, I'm thinking the same to just watch it in theatres again 🎥
I don't think you guys got the takeaway that was intended with Joy. Just as with the replicants for whom the movies questions the existence of a soul, or self awareness, the movie asked you whether Joy was the same. It didn't matter that she wasn't able to take physical form. Was she sentient? Some of the actions she took throughout the movie effectively had me asking whether the programming was just that good, or if it was possible that she had grown past her programming. I didn't take the large billboard Joy as implying that Joy actually wasn't gaining sentience since of course that version of Joy wasn't the same "person" despite looking the same.
Hmmm, lots of guys reading more into Joi than the movie tells us is there. Even Mackenzie Davis tells Joi that she isn't really all that sophisticated. And that's coming from a replicant. Joi is just a sophisticated algorithm designed to soothe and placate their license holder's ego.
@Siansonea Orande- No, the movie does tell us this. But it also sets up so that it can trick some people and then shock maybe after once they realize how oh no I did the same thing the humans had done towards the replicants. And that scene actually told us the opposite. And it showed us both a replicant and an AI both getting a little jealous and trying to stake their place. Joi started acting jealous and then really so once replicant lover was holding K's horse and all and she was just like shoo, just get out of here and suddenly clearly getting all jealous and yet K was not around so it wasn't just programming for his benefit. And the replicant was maybe wanting someone to be lower than her and getting nervous that maybe that wasn't the case and quipped out that comment to try to put Joi in her place and reassure herself. It is interesting that sometiems the downbeaten instead of supporting and championing the rights of those deemed even lower than they sometimes instead do the same thing they hate and are rebelling against to them.
I mean what was the whole more human than human thing all about? You were supposed to realize or at least eventually realize it applied on two levels not just one.
I totally disagree with Adam and Will about Joi. I thought she was by far the most interesting character in the film, and her and K's relationship was great. Adam said it was gross that K was essentially in love with a thoughtless computer program, but I read her as a living being sans body. Joi is essentially the same as K, or any other replicant except that she has no body. Their relationship, for me, was a beautiful analog for my own long distance relationship. It explored how we express love without being physically with someone. It's about gestures of kindness (the emitter) and sacrifice (becoming mortal, essentially). You could also argue that Joi was just following her programming and giving K what he wanted to see/hear as the ad indicated toward the end of the film, but I think that Deckard's conversation with Wallace shows that it doesn't matter. Maybe she was programmed to love him, but how is that any different, in general terms, than what made me fall in love with my girlfriend?
@dasutin: Great comment. I also considered their relationship to be an exemplary platonic love. The fact that you could relate to this so well due to your long distance relationship is quite beautiful!
Joi was a virtual intelligence with a hologram interface, nothing more. And replicants aren't like that at all. I would argue that they're not even artificial intelligence, but rather sythetic or engineered intelligences. Their brains are organic matter, like a human's. They use the same architecture as a human. They're just built from the ground up in specific ways. Joi is just a simulacrum, a game version of the sophisticated memory systems that Wallace creates for its replicants, but not really a sentient/sapient being.
The only proof we have to go on is what Wallace as a company says about Joi. They regard her as a product, but this is also true for replicants. I don't think there's anything that specifically says she's just a VI. Blade Runner, to me, is about examining what our requirements are for something to be alive. I think maybe for a lot of people, the jump from human to replicant isn't a hard one to make, because as you said, they're flesh. But I'm struggling to think of anything that K did in the film that Joi didn't also do. They were both selfless, romantic, profoundly sad, determined, encouraging, and in the end, they both died for something they believed in (which the Resistance says is the closest they can be to human). And yes, you could argue she learned all that from K because of her programming, which is probably true. But if she can learn something as complicated as love and sacrifice, then it counts as alive. After all, people always say "fake it 'till you make it" right?
I think people find the idea of Joi tremendously seductive, and are therefore doing exactly what Joi's intended customers do: they try to make her seem like more than she is. But all we see in the movie is a glorified ELIZA program with an attractive character model hologram attached to it. Nothing Joi does in the movie hints at anything close to consciousness, and both Mackenzie Davis' replicant prostitute and Luv tell us that Joi is not really a conscious entity. "We hope you like our product". You're right, though, the movie DOES ask us to examine what are requirements are for something to be considered alive. The replicants are shown to pass that test. They live, they breathe, they think, they cry, they make sacrifices, they yearn for freedom and they even lie. Joi is paused for an incoming phone call, and 'dies' when a small appliance is stepped on. There is nothing really autonomous about anything she did, everything was completely within the purview of her programming-making K feel like the most special boy. When he sees the Joi hologram 'billboard' late in the movie, and she says 'what a special Joe' he is, it's obvious that the filmmaker is telling us that Joi was never more than a product designed to assuage loneliness. "Everything you want to see, everything you want to hear" is her advertising tagline. And really, did she ever violate that mandate? Did she ever do anything that made it seem like she was more than just a video game character? Did she ever challenge or contradict K? Did she ever put 'her own needs' before his? Her 'death' was the moral equivalent of losing your saved game data, and it's clear that K realizes that when he sees the Joi advertisement.
Who said anything about Joi being worthless? She was quite an expensive product, if memory serves. Of course K found Joi tremendously compelling and misses his interaction with her. His feelings are real, even if she is little more than ones and zeros. And people can love all sorts of things, but that doesn't make them people. People love giant pillows with illustrations on them, people love silicone dolls. But they're still not sentient creatures. Everything to do with this conversation about Joi is couched in how K feels about 'her', NOT whether she might have her own consciousness or inner life or volition. So yes, one's holographic girlfriend can certainly be something one values, but I wouldn't exactly give it the right to vote or anything.
Adam says Deckard and K are both replicants, but the screenwriter and director do not agree :) Deckard is very definitely NOT a match for Gosling in the movie, I don't get where he's getting that. At the very least, this movie is a sequel to both the theatrical and the DC/FC (Villeneuve loves both), meaning that he's both a replicant and questionably a replicant at the same time. Which is great because it brings back the ambiguity that Ridley Scott is determined to destroy.
The *real* snowflakes on K's hand are directly juxtaposed with the *fake* snowflakes on the memory-maker's hand. They are nearly smash-cut together as a pointed-juxtaposition.
The snow falling on K as he lay on the steps didn't look real to me. It was very uniform. Looked like it had been added in post production and took me out of the moment.
ugh, please. audiences don't even try anymore to invest themselves in the movies they watch. It's a bridge building experience, the audience has to do half the work in order for the story-telling to work. If the audience goes into the movie unwilling to buy into the experience, then it all falls apart, and it's the audience member's fault. Be willing to believe. I never once considered the "quality" of the snow. I was too busy being invested in the story being told.
I have a different take on the Joy character and the relationship between her and K. K is completely alone in this film, he's a replicant that kills other replicants, he is accepted by neither humans or other replicants. I think his relationship with Joy is a need for companionship & to make his life seem "normal" . It made me see his character as being more sympathetic. Replicants aren't just emotionless robot slaves, they have all the emotional needs that a human does and that made his treatment by the humans seem even more tragic. SPOILER SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILER SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILER SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILER SPOILERS SPOILERS I was on the fence about Joy's capacity for free thought until the moment that giant holograph of her calls him "Joe", at that moment I think K realized that her "Love" was probably just an excellent facsimile of the real emotion, everything he thought was real / human (himself, Joy's emotions for K) were fake. I also don't think even Joy herself was aware of her own programming.
I must have missed the line where SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER K tells Decker not to call him by the name given to him by his Joi after seeing that billboard follow a similar logic path. ...oh wait. He didn't tell Decker to stop using that name. He kept that name rather than go back. K realized that even if he and Joi were artificial products following their programming: She had meaning to him and it's not something he needed to ask a human or another replicant to justify.
Joy G the thing with this movie is each element has layers. There's not just one thing to take from each scene, theme or character. Joi is also a sexual term for example
I absolutely love the Joy character. It asks some of the most interesting questions in the entire movie. She's clearly an evolving AI and the Joy that K is "with" is no longer the generic product, she has her own fears and desires that developed over time. Her emitter getting destroyed to me personally was powerful because it was about wether that was just destroying someone's property or essentially killing a person. There's a also that additional bond between two artificial beings. To K she's no more fake than he is himself.
Joi demonstrates agency and self-sacrifice by telling K to destroy her original projector, which ultimately leads to her demise when Luv destroys her emanator. This exactly matches the definition of love that Adam applies to K. So I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Joi as a "holographic fleshlight."
exactly, and further, she gets really jealous and can't control it by the time the replicant lover starts handling K's special horse and she is just like shoo, get out of here at that point and yet K is not even around to act for; also when K crashes, she is worried, panicked but he is unconscious and there is nobody for her to act to, even the rain, before he even sees her she is already reacting in a way that maybe hints at the truth or at least is maybe a sign she is starting to grow beyong the basic programming from having been out in the world both a while and having been treated so humanly by K assuming she wasn't already there to start if you really insist on getting more gradual and tentative about it And that scene with Joi and the replicant lover where Joi started acting jealous. You can't take it as gospel that the replicant just tells Joi to stop being so uppity and you are not as real as you think. That was just another layer to the film where it showed the replicant was maybe wanting someone to be lower than her and getting nervous that maybe that wasn't the case and then quipped out that comment to try to put Joi in her place to reassure herself. It is interesting that sometiems the downbeaten, instead of supporting and championing the rights of those deemed even lower than they, sometimes instead do the same thing they hate and are rebelling against to them. Humans trick themselves to think they are so above the replicants and the replicants are somehow just machines or something even though it's ridiculous since they have organic, human brains. And then some replicants (and tons of humans) end up doing the same thing just to AI. K seemed to be one of the few so fully treat AI as real and when he maybe started doubting everything on every level for a second, that ad at the end, that showed him how real Joi was, not how fake! That was a key bit, that snapped him out of it. He realized she was special and real and so was he and he didn't have to be the Chosen One to be human or more human than human or special or real or whatever you want to call it. It allowed him to get a bit of a sense of peace and satisfaction of sorts at the end.
Blade Runner 2049 resolves all speculations about the true nature of the replicants from the very first frame of the movie. The introductory text explicitly states that replicants are bioengineered humans, i.e. NOT artificial life forms. This explains Lt. Joshi's fear of the ramifications of Rachel's pregnancy ("This breaks the world. Do you know what that means?") as well as the corporation's motivation for tracking down the child and eradicating all evidence of its birth. If the replicants' ability to procreate was revealed to the public it would expose the dark secret at the bottom of it all: Replicants are no less human than anyone else. This revelation casts Eldon Tyrell in a completely different light. Rather than the genius inventor of artificial life, Tyrell is revealed as a cynical butcher who figured out how to hack the human genome and produce a genetically modified race of mutants. His motivation in dehumanizing his progeny and misrepresenting them as artificial life forms was to sanitize his ruthless business model of selling them into slavery. Niander Wallace affirms this corporate strategy with his unapologetic observation, "Every leap of civilization was built on the back of a disposable workforce." For the replicants to accept their fate as compliant slaves, it is crucial they remain brainwashed into disregarding all evidence of their own suppressed humanity. This is the brutal realization Deckard has been running from his entire career.
Joi is not a fucking flesh light! I'm shocked at Adams coldness towards this.... She risked her own life all be it virtual by having K destroy her in the apartment and only exist on the handheld.
The themes of the film are fantastic. MORE HUMAN THAN HUMAN, still a powerful thesis. Joi finds humanity in her arc, self-sacrificing for K, K self-sacrifices after realizing he's just a sheep (yet he's more than that), Luv expresses an extension of Niander Wallace and his agenda, and demonstrates his ultimate lack of humanity (he's devoid of it). By the way, one of the devices that wasn't plugged into behind Wallace's ear had a Persian word on it that translates to "Demon".
I agree, except I think Joi was not special. All she did was was follow her programming. She told K she was special, which is what he wanted to hear. He also wanted her to go with him, so Joi did. She never went against her programming so to me she was not real.
Zach X ! Fancy meeting you here. Try as I might, I can't see Joi as special either. Her character is meant to engage speculation, I'm sure, but her perfect algorithmically calculated prettiness works against my being able to assign any genuine/unique characteristics to her. A friend suggested that was the point of her - every man's dream according to best available information. I'm not able to buy it. I'd like to, because it fits so nicely with the humanistic themes, but no...
I think Joi went off her baseline, same as K. The entire plot of the film is about replicants / A.I. evolving into something beyond than what they were designed for, so I think this carries over into Joi as well. And like the Dekkard question, it remains more interesting as something unresolved. But as I see it, Joi loved him, and the moment this is made clear is when she brings a physical lover to K's apartment. She seemed jealous and told her she could leave pretty quick the next morning, and this was not said for K's benefit - he wasn't in the room.
"Holographic fleshlight" Not so sure about this. She clearly has agency (displayed when she goes to hire the prostitute), self-awareness (displayed when she feels the rain drops for the first time), ability to gain memories (discussed when they talk about how she will 'die' if they transfer her to the emanator and its destroyed), and to act both in her own interests (again when she shows how she wants to discover the world on her own) and in the interests of others (when she tries to help K). I think the point of her character is to take it another step beyond replicants towards artificial life forms and have the audience again ask what it means to be a real, sentient being. If you think her character arc is irrelevant, then you missed the point.
They did a good job of hiding some important plot points before release. I was totally surprised that Joi was an AI hologram, having assumed that she was probably a replicant, and I was almost as shocked as Deckard when the copy of Rachel walked in. There were even articles about how Sean Young wasn't in this movie at all and a quote of her saying that she guessed they weren't interested in having her in the film. You could argue that it was technically true, as the Rachel that appears is a CGI rendering, but she definitely recorded dialog. So that came as a huge surprise, and it was such a cruel thing to do to Deckard that it was one of the most memorable parts of the story, for me.
God damn it, After watching this, I need to see it for a third time, yet I'm dead broke. We will not see another film of this scale and layers for a very very long time in my opinion. I'm just soooo glad it had the budget and got made.
As an american i am disappointment in the box office here in the us. We have to many knuckle draggers that just want generic star wars, transformers and tyler perry movies every year and its sad. Please save this film japan and china.
I'm european and I'm disappointed too, but not surprised. I often take himself in thinking that it's always the americans that don't go support the really great, original movies while at the same time shows like Collider and other american youtube shows bad mouthes Asia for supporting Transformers, Fast Furious etc. I might be wrong in this assumption, but all the greats movies almost always fails in America and it's pissing me off. The problem lies not with Asia they essentially supports the production companies and industry, the problem lies in America itself.
One of the questions that I have that I don't expect to be answered is the link to Alien. It is confirmed, thanks to Prometheus, that they are the same universe. The burning question I immediately had thanks to that little eater egg was thus: What is the functional difference between an Android, such as Ash and Bishop, and Replicates? They are both synthetic life forms, both are better and worse than humans in some way, so what are the differences? Best I can tell is that one is grown and the other is made, but even that's a guess.
I watched this last night in my home theater. I have a room that is completely and totally covered in triple black velvet with a 120in projection screen with masking for 2.35 content. I have a high contrast JVC projector and several subs and atmos speakers. The effect of the velvet is to make the room completely and totally disappear so all you see is a screen floating in nothingness, very cool and not something you will find in a cinema. Amazing movie, just so beautiful. Did not feel long at all as I felt so immersed in the world. Every performance was exceptional and so perfectly nuanced. What a perfect sequel for a world with so many disappointing re boots and sequels.
I think you guys are looking at K's relationship to Joi in too black-and-white of terms. HE doesn't even seem sure how he feels about her, but you guys seems to shrug her off as a non-person. I don't think it's a stretch to say that an AI's exhibition of agency and emotion that's (on its surface) every bit as sincere as K's puts her in the conversation with other Real People. She clearly DOES have agency, by making unilateral plans and decisions off-camera. I think K can be seen visibly struggling to reconcile her realness with the fact he bought her from someone who built her. The inconclusive question of whether she counts as a person and why mirrors the same question as it's applied to replicants.
Exactly, that was the whole point of both films. This one really set the trap and I feel they all walked right into it and still haven't come to the realization that they have become just like the humans were in the first film and many were in the second film. They are the humans not seeing the humanity, the realness, the specialness in replicants but not seeing it Joi. They are making the same mistake. The whole point in this one was to expand it a layer deeper and show how one can possibly get tricked and fall for the trap (as we see quite a few viewers, themselves included, did). The whole ending with the billboard should actually be read in completely the opposite way and when you do that then the full power of the ending comes into play and it makes his actions make sense.
I dont understand Adam saying Joi isnt real yet the replicant girl is. As far as i could tell Joi was as conscious as any of the replicants so her "death" is just as big a deal as any of the physical replicants, the only difference is their body's are human-like and Joi's is the little black stick, yes she is programmed to be his loving wife but K is programmed to be a blade runner. They are just different forms of hardware with Extremely advanced software. So why is she less of a "Person"
I am surprised by how cynical you guys are about Joi, what you guys are saying about her could easily be said about K, or Rachel, or Roy Batty. The whole theme of both films are these people becoming more 'human', and Joi is a huge part if that. Both K and Joi are mass produced products meant for a specific purpose, K is an emotionless assassin, and Joi is a devoted partner. Wether her love is programed or not, does it even matter? If Deckard were a replicant, he was 'programed' to love Rachel. Joi's relationship simply brings up far to many questions about love, free will, obedience and way more for you guys to dismiss here as simply a fleshlight.
You have to appreciate the amazing mental gymnastics of a replicant cop, making love to a holographic girlfriend, overlaid with a replicant prostitute. How much more meta does it get when our machines require the same emotions, connections, physical intimacy of a human. I thought that whole thought process was amazing, and really reminded me of the series "Humans" and the whole process of if these replicants are appliances, beings, things, etc...
here is something for Adam to think about: Deckard, who is an unclear replicant (I think the point of the original Blade Runner is to ask the question, not necessarily to answer it), handling his gun - when he shoots Zora, it's a very intense scene - you can almost feel (pun intended) the weight of the trigger pull. And what does K do? Bam, bam! Double tap straight to the head - cold and mechanical. I thought that was a great contrast. Also - the way the new film takes elements of the original, and (like Adam said - very subtly) puts them in the universe in a way that feels organic. Like the scene where they find Rachel's serial number, which meshes the Esper, and snake scale scenes from the original. Or the two more nods to esper with the fire support, and the LV drone reconnaisance.
Adam, the other film from Denis you were thinking of was, "Enemy". Thanks for doing this podcast, guys. I've seen a lot of movie reviews for 2049, but this is the first video I've seen where true fans just talk about the film. It was great hearing your thoughts. I'm going to see the film for the second time this weekend, I really hope more people check it out.
Great episode guys! Amazing movie that left me feeling the same way I did after seeing the original for the first time, something no other movie has done. Will mentioned not knowing for sure if Wallace was blind. In case you guys missed it, he used those little black fish like things to see. If you look closely, they have little lenses on them and follow next to him when he walks. Also, when he is sitting with Deckard towards the end and he pulls the chip out from behind his ear, the little floating cameras swim away. I picked up on that after my second viewing. Like you said, so much to unpack!
Around the 57:00 mark you guys missed the point about souls. In the beginning of the movie, Wallace and Madam hammered home the justification of having a slave labor force, being "because they weren't born, they have no soul." But in the story, K proves that the ability to love gives you a soul, not your birth.
@ 40:12 I'm surprised the Replicant + Human = child discussion wasn't brought up when talking about the Joi + K + hooker threesome. As Adam mentioned there could be multiple spin offs of this movie... one being K's child being born!?! This movie was so good!
The only problem with this idea is that Wallace never achieved Tyrell's ability to make replicant's that can reproduce. No one knows how many Nexis 7's were ever made but K and all the present Replicants are not able to.
And the end scene where Joe feels the snow, is his realization not that he's fake, but that he's real in the sense that he can love and feel empathy for others. And then the snow metaphor is reinforced again when Deckards daughter is admiring the snow in her lab. The snow is used to illustrate this 3 times.
Approx. 12:00 - so with you wrt being in costume and the whole picture taking protocol. Troop with Star Wars group and we always get the 'snipe' from behind. Competent handlers/spotters are key for complex costumes and helmeted costumes with limited position/vision - both to help get pictures taken and to avoid collisions/trampling. Lucky that our handlers 'manage' the picture taking extremely well at busy Cons. But yes, there are certain individuals that do not endure themselves to having their picture taken with oneself... :-)
I believed Joi (and her emotions) to be real. After all the old Nexus 6's proved to be capable of real emotions. A replicant is a machine being run by a program. Joi is also a program, but she only controls a hologram. So the killing of Joi i thought was incredibly cruel. Made me look at Luv and think "You unbelievably vile, cruel, monstrous ... etc..." The cruelest thing I have ever seen done to anybody on screen happened in an episode of Black Mirror called White Christmas. If you've seen it you'll know why I mention it. I you haven't then do. It is THE scariest thought that has ever entered my mind
Great movie openings. Lord or War comes to mind. Following that bullet from production floor to deadly shot immediately lays out the connection and disconnect between the business of war and the deadly price of war.
To build on the idea of the theme being love, notice that deckard says “sometimes to love someone you have to be a stranger” and at the end of the film deckard says to K “so what are you to me?”and K tells him “go see your daughter” he learns what it means to be a living being and what it means to love, beautiful
I have to disagree with the thoughts about Joi just being a toy of sorts. To me it was another story of humanity and what it means to be human. Something similar was portrayed in the movie Her where the protagonist had a romantic relationship with a computer/program. Our technology is rapidly getting more and more sophisticated to a point where i think computers can seem just as aware and alive as we are. Our brains are essentially computers as well that process a ton of information. I think the movie is hinting at a future where we will have to start asking what is real, and it wont be a topic exclusive to deeper talks. It's going to be an every day topic and probably even commercialized (like you see in 2049, a lot of the products are "people"). Computers are already such a big part of our lives, it would make sense for it to get integrated to such an extent. Also our lives are subject to our imagination and i feel like our society has a sort of its own imagination that we all subconsciously follow. Anyway sorry for the rant but this is one of the most interesting subjects to me and I feel very strongly about it. Would love to hear other peoples opinions though!
Exactly! I think Adam and Will and to a slightly lesser extent Norm essentially ended up missing what is ultimately one of the key points of the whole film. They fell for the initial trap just as most humans did in the first film and even second film. The Joi arc was utterly integral to the entire film. And you can go back and see hints of it all over if you missed it the first or second or third times. And further, she gets really jealous and can't control it by the time the replicant lover starts handling K's special horse and she is just like shoo, get out of here at that point and yet K is not even around to act for; also when K crashes, she is worried, panicked but he is unconscious and there is nobody for her to act to, even the rain, before he even sees her she is already reacting in a way that maybe hints at the truth or at least is maybe a sign she is starting to grow beyong the basic programming from having been out in the world both a while and having been treated so humanly by K assuming she wasn't already there to start if you really insist on getting more gradual and tentative about it And that scene with Joi and the replicant lover where Joi started acting jealous. You can't take it as gospel that the replicant just tells Joi to stop being so uppity and you are not as real as you think. That was just another layer to the film where it showed the replicant was maybe wanting someone to be lower than her and getting nervous that maybe that wasn't the case and then quipped out that comment to try to put Joi in her place to reassure herself. It is interesting that sometiems the downbeaten, instead of supporting and championing the rights of those deemed even lower than they, sometimes instead do the same thing they hate and are rebelling against to them. Humans trick themselves to think they are so above the replicants and the replicants are somehow just machines or something even though it's ridiculous since they have organic, human brains. And then some replicants (and tons of humans) end up doing the same thing just to AI. K seemed to be one of the few so fully treat AI as real and when he maybe started doubting everything on every level for a second, that ad at the end, that showed him how real Joi was, not how fake! That was a key bit, that snapped him out of it. He realized she was special and real and so was he and he didn't have to be the Chosen One to be human or more human than human or special or real or whatever you want to call it. It allowed him to get a bit of a sense of peace and satisfaction of sorts at the end.
Pausing at 34:21 while fresh in my head, so this may be discussed later, but... Speaking to the idea of replicants and agency, I thought that it was very interesting that K chose to lie to his lieutenant about having completed his secret mission. It's made fairly clear that these latest generation replicants are thought to be perfectly loyal; that they can't disobey and they can't lie. But K deliberately lies about the details of the case, even though they're based on his own misconception about his identity. And then we have Luv openly declaring to Joshi that she's going to lie to Wallace about being attacked first, so that she HAD to kill her. It works well with the slave metaphor. The masters often imagine that their slaves are more docile and controlled than they really are. We see in even the "loyal" replicants a seed of rebellion and self determination. ETA: Less than two minutes later Adam says the same thing about K lying to Joshi.
I question whether that IS a lie. It's more of a Clintonism. As I recall, he said "it's been handled," thinking that he was the missing baby, so what he meant was, "I solved the mystery of who the baby is." That's not a lie. He was just mistaken. I'd have to rewatch to see what his exact orders were regarding the baby, but (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) didn't she sent him to "deal with it."
Interesting note on the architecture of the Wallace HQ, most of the interiors were based on a proposal for a Spanish neanderthal museum by Estudio Barozzi Veiga. The production company licensed the design several years ago and the architect forgot all about it until he saw the trailer.
I'm worried with how 2049 is tracking below expectations, Villeneuve isn't going to get as much creative freedom as he wants with "Dune" and that would be tragic.
One thing I noticed about the Baseline test scenes was that with the first one, it felt like a breaking point between the chaotic and 'dirty' (perhaps 'lived in' is a better term) world outside and the ordered world inside. The room itself is removed, clinical, perfect; it both analyses and reflects the perfection of the Replicants which pass through it, and serves as an airlock between the organisation within and the threat(s) outside. In the second scene, the wall to the viewer's left of the machine was noticeably weathered and scuffed... This may have been the case in the first scene as well but I did not notice it (I have only seen it once so far, in full IMAX 3d) and it was certainly noticeable given that the scene immediately preceding it began the 'weathering' process of K. The 'rot' is beginning for the organisation within, and the external threats are amassing. I also don't think that the choice of the letter K was mere happenstance given the character's detachment from his processes and processing. He knows that he is part of and party to something which is both larger than him and which already has a significant amount of momentum. The term Kafkaesque is overused, but I can't help myself from drawing parallels to The Trial. Finally, the subtlety of call backs to the original was perfect. The one which made me gasp out loud was the tiles in K's apartment... Nice nod.
I cant wait until we get some good resolution on mainstream VR headsets to watch movies in a VR movie theater. Yeah you can do it now but it still feels a little lacking res wise enough to be fully enjoyable. I want that to experience a movie like Blade Runner like it should be experienced.
A movie opening I love is from Serenity, Wheddon's movie adaptation of the tv show Firefly. From the school to the lab and then unto the ship...not bad for someone's first movie.
53:54 Guys. Adam is right. That was clear to me too (in 30 minutes im going to bed watching it) 1-She knows the difference between real and false memories 2- Said that no real memories can be used in the replicants. 3-"what makes your memories so authentic?" K asks. "...well, there's a bit of every artist in their work" she replies..etc- at the end Deckard sees her playing with that "make-memories-thing-prop-Adam-saw" re-creating the scene in the snow outside, at the same time that K was looking at the snow when he dies (also in the first visit he stand still looking how the snowflakes fell in his hand). HOW LUCKY and happy was the end: To avoid the Revolution, The Army, the war, The Killing of Deckard by K who faked his dead, so Deckard....NO!. So SHE! can be with her father. : P and so on. Like a chain of dominoes... See you guys around.
Great opening: Serenity! Joy was built by the company that wanted to find K, I thought she was going to deceive K at some point or at least be corrupted to do something against her will..
Absolutely Laputa has one of the great openings of all time. It's dense with exposition yet it feels light and kinetic. It's completely disorienting because you're absorbing the setting and every two seconds is unexpected right up until the chilling instant before the opening credits.
There's two cinemas local to me and one of them really does it right, the sound was stupendous and they don't light up the room during the credits. Bitchin seats too and free refills like they have in the USA. Showcase > Vue
The central character is named after Kafka's Josef K, there's a lot connecting it to The Trial is the way the story pans out and there's some visual similarities to the Orsen Welles Film of The Trial. I think also the Orphanage area owes a lot to Lebbeus Woods.
So just because Joi has to love K (according to her programming) - that means she's less alive? I disagree. Presumably her AI could be just as sophisticated as any replicant. Is her love less real, just because it's forced? I think you could argue that certain pets, like dogs, are almost forced to love us because we've bred them over so many years to behave that way - it's like their programming. We still get pretty sad when they die though, and we still consider their love genuine.
The story of the artificial boy trying to live in the real world mirroring the real girl trying to live in an artificial world. To me, a lot of this movie is about where do you draw the line between AI and human. If an AI is able to talk to you and let you experience a full range of emotions and you'd never know they weren't human, why should we treat them any differently than if they really were human. Where is the line and should there even be one?
Eyes are a crucial symbol to Blade Runner. If you look at Joi she has gorgeous eyes. Except when you see the giant hologram of Joi at the end. She has black eyes. Eyes are the window to the soul. Through out the movie we see a Joi that has memories and acts upon those memories. She is just as real as you or me. (Are we not all programmed to an extent? Whether nature or nurture, we don't control all our thoughts or feelings.) These Joi programs may not start off with a "soul" but I would argue that they do form one. Each program may start off the same, but they change with the world around them, learn, and grow.
Interlude: The Rain/Snow scene happens 3 times in the movie - each creating a SPECIFIC emotion, giving/creating dimension! 1. Joi walks into the rain = SHE BECOMES 'real' in the real world - an AI stepping OUT of its projection into the realest phenomenon in the world (rain) (first dimension) 2. K 'knows' that his memories ARE real = he steps out into the snow FEELING for the first time - a 'being' that was a AI-slave BECOMES 'real' - he was ripped out of his shackles and grounded in life - his realization goes from: I DO to I AM! (second dimension) 3. K KNOWS he is a replicant BUT he also KNOWS he has a choice; in that HE REALLY BECOMES REAL - he becomes HUMAN (in the emotional sense) - with feelings, depths, purpose and love! Accepting his true nature, adapting to what is MEANINGFUL to him = the sacrifice in saving Deckard; bringing back together a family and possibly in that starting a revolution! (third dimension)
I won't watch this video because I don't have any interest in anyone else's opinion about BR2049, but I jumped to your timepoint - Wow. William must be trolling. What a ridiculous thing to say. Norm demonstrated inhuman self control I think.
Totally agree, its amazing how everyone else in the comment section isn't aware of that..so painfully obvious. First he has to let Adam speak his share then Will simply interjects the conversation right after..Norm took it in. Respects. This was not easy to watch, tbh one of the worst review videos they made by far, they need a proper mediator or interview setting to start of firstly.
26:06 to 26:13, touches his head, then his watch. Later after Adam farts Norm touches his nose, then lips in a 'hush' gesture lol. It's also funny to me that Norm hides behind that gigantic mic. At one point he adjusted it, which prompted Adam to fiddle with his mic.
Maybe my favorite subtle point in the film is when the billboard Joi calls K a "good Joe." I think it just proved that all of the Jois were the same and that she didn't genuinely love him like he hoped. That then allows him to move on and save Deckard at the end, and it also points out the difference between an AI and an artificial lifeform with true sentience.
At 54:20 they talk about Rachel's daughter. My thought is even though two replicants managed to fall in love and have a child, the child really "did" have a genetic problem as the result of this attempt at procreation. This idea alone leaves the plan of Wallace trying to create a replicant race that can reproduce, is in fact a failure of Wallace as well. This is a continuation of his failures to do the same thing with the replicant he killed at the beginning when he slit her stomach open.
stormtroopers routinely get hammered on the top of the head when people want to take photos. people think that they can smack the trooper because its armor. I have had many times where boys have tried to steal parts from the back, namely the detonator clipped on the belt. Also i cannot tell you how many photos i have taken with women, that i have seen after the fact, where they have put their hand on the cod piece because they think its a funny photo to take with a trooper. When in costume you cannot feel it, cannot see down, and do not notice it with the hard armor until you see the photo after the fact. Being in costume is its own experience. I would recommend that a fully costumed person always has a handler with them when in a crowded place.
The point of Joi is that K is essentially a pariah. He's 1) Not human and 2) He's a blade runner. So he's ostracized by both humans *and* replicants. He wants to connect with someone/thing and has found that connection in Joi.
Blade Runner 2049 Discussion starts from 15:10
Giorgi Nemsitsveridze Thank you so much!!!!!!! 😉
I love you
Not all heroes wear capes 😊
People say it was too long and slow, but it worked great for immersion, helped set it apart from a regular jaunt down to the cinema.
It wasn't slow at all. It was perfect. I get so tired of people that can't muster more than 90 minutes of attention.
At first I thought it was slow but I was surprised when it ended, wanting more.
If it was in the hands of most directors these days, it would've been put in two unsatisfying parts. I could imagine after finding the Toy Horse, K goes to see Deckard and as he pulls the horse from his jacket he says, "I think we need to talk", Deckard walks out of the shadows and it goes black.
The story does work to be presented in two parts. Part 1: Officer K finding himself. (You'd leave Part 1 thinking K is The Child) Part 2: Officer K finding something bigger than himself. If it was two parts, they would've padded it with more resistance stuff, but thankfully they went the way they did for a more satisfying movie.
They said exactly the same thing when Blade Runner came out in 1982.
i didnt think it was too long, even my daughter enjoyed it, and was surprised the movie was as long as it was, she said it didnt feel like it was that long.
K's relationship with Joi was my favorite part of the film. It was inherently very weird and incredibly sad the longer you thought about it. This cop who's job is to kill his own kind, lives in a shitty apartment, and is hated because he's a replicant, this guy saves up his salary just so he can buy something to take his holographic companion with him. From our perspective it's silly, but from the perspective of that world she's his only friend. Why is Joi a laughable concept when K himself was essentially made in a factory? The idea of holographic companions adds a third tier to the hierarchy of creation; Humans are above Replicants, and Repicants look down on Holograms as lesser even when they're capable of developing attachments and personalities, or at the very least projecting attachment. Sure it was programing, but Wallace himself suggests even Deckard may have been programmed to fall in love at the right time. Replicants in 2049 are programmed to obey at a certain level themselves. I love that such a weird uncomfortable idea as a relationship with a hologram can so effectively shine the light on the deeper themes of the film.
I'd argue it's even sadder than that. Joi is an AI and as seen on the advertising board at the end she is made to "Everything you want to hear, see etc" so the way i thought of it was that she wasnt even real, like everything she said and felt was literally made just for him and to make him feel specifically loved and special and less lonely. K was just a replicant who wanted to do things with his life beyond what he was made to do (his programming) Joi was programmed to make him feel that.
Matthew Tran Exactly this, Joi is AI with machine learning to specify adapt to the user's likings, in a sense that it actually reflect K's desire, but I think deep down most audience would wish that at least some part of Joi is "real".
Me too. Joy and K was my favorite part.
On another level, just think of the privacy issues with having this virtual AI know all of your secrets and we see LUV used JOI to track K so they could be data collecting and spying on everyone.
That part kind of contradicts the first film. When the police chief says. 'If you're not a cop you're little people pal!' Being a cop should give K some prestige or power even if he's a skinjob.
*SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS*
What I love about the movie is that it builds up K as The Special. The Chosen One. The Child of Prophecy. And then in an instant it says, "No, nevermind. He's no one." And even at a point Deckard wonders why he is even here. When K escorts him to his real child Deckard stops to ask why. "Who am I to you?" K doesn't answer because he is no one. He's not special to the world. But he doesn't have to be. Much like Roy Batty in the first film, K saves Deckard just because he can. Because Deckard will remember that. Deckard will remember him. And that's all he needs. Just to be remembered. And that's why Tears in Rain plays when he dies. Because like Roy Batty, he proved he had a soul and humanity by saving Deckard even though he didn't have to.
Absolutely. I also love how Deckard and K have very similar arcs in their respective movies, only with different starting points. Deckard begins as a human (well at least the audience thinks him to be), then we have moments of doubt and in the end (if you prefer the Director's Cut) we have our doubts confirmed. But it's not really a sucker punch, is it? Roy Batty certainly was proof that replicants have a soul. Deckard being a replicant even makes his romantic relationship with Rachael more intruiging. They are of the same kind. They truly belong to each other.
And in the sequel, K is revealed as a replicant right from the get-go. But again we start to doubt that. He might be special. Then the truth hits again. He isn't the chosen one. But in the end he is very special indeed - not by birthright, but by choice and action. It's really wonderful that both characters have an uplifting completion despite their blows of fate.
That's f*!king beautiful.
I just want to remind people of one of Philip K Dick's original themes, which is that the defining characteristic of "human" is empathy, not biology. (And yes, by this measure some "humans" are not really human.)
"Dying for a cause is the most human thing we can do"
Alan Guillermo
Great insight and thought provoking. Thanks for that
25:30 im surprised Adam doesnt care so much about Joi, i dont see why her artificiality would make her any less important to K. he speaks about her murder as if it was a good thing. I think she's one of the most interesting characters.
what makes you think K can gain agency or whatever if you dont think Joi can? they are more similar to each other than to humans.
Joi only says the things he wants to hear, you have been fooled just like him. No real person would obey every order, like the add in the movie. He is not special, she isn't. It is all quite sad when you think about it.
+isabelle Lariviere theres a lot of people who only say what you want to hear, that doesnt make them any less of a person. i have no idea what your going on about with being "fooled", Joi is a character that can be interacted with just like a real human, so how can you say she isnt a person but K is?
Agreed. I feel that many people are biased towards this notion that humans are these special beings with a consciousness, but when it comes down to it, we really are just information taking in information from the world around us. I thought Joi was the most interesting character in the movie and the relationship with K/Joe made you feel more for K. Too bad the movie didn't developed this further but decided to kill her off (maybe?) and made it seem like she was just acting based of an algorithm, because it really brought up interesting questions about what being conscious really is, and was the major reasons why the original was so interesting.
I thought Joi was the most interesting character as well. In the original movie the underlying theme was a question about why replicants were considered less than human beings. Joi fulfilled that role in 2049. Not all her actions consisted only of what K would want or expect and her final act was an expression, not a response.
Rinoa Super-Genius I think one of the points that 2049 makes is that whether a being's feeling is true to them and that they know their emotions are real to them, then does it really matter if it was simulated?
This film should be my generation's defining sci fi film
I wouldn't go that far. I think there's something in the next ten years that will be much more impressive.
I really would go that far
yes. I think the perfect triology of SF films should be: Her, Ex Machina, and Bladerunner 2049.
It wouldn't exsist without the first one, but it's still better on evry level.
@@planeguy95 Why not? Personally the only item to take out the movie was Jared Leto, if the same character was played the same way by an older actor/with more gravitas it would be better.
Shocked to hear someone say that Joi's arc is beside the point. It more or less IS the point. The film builds much of its emotional core around her, and challenges the audience to see her as a person, just as the original film challenged us to see replicants as human. This is why the full emotional scale of both films can be elusive the first few times. You have to get past this block in your head that distinguishes between characters who are "people" and characters who are "things."
Exactly! She practically was the point of the whole movie. It seems many more fell for the trap to just see her as beneath us and lesser and a fraud. I think many totally misread the last scene with the ad and got it all completely in reverse.
Her arc was one of the most important things in the whole film as much as K, at least. And while he directly continued certain aspects of the first film she introduced a mirroring of the first film and was the core of the first film expanded and a huge point of the new film.
It is a good film in the way they set it up, both clear and yet not so clear as to not be a trap to capture many until they ended up thinking about it more, seeing it again, discussing it with others.
The onyl reason K suddenly snaps out of it at the end after the ad and does his own thing and seems to reach some level of peace and a beautiful satisfaction of some degree at the end is because of her. Seeing the ad he realized she was beyond that and not just a simple AI drone, she was advanced and was not constantly reset and had built up with all her real world exposure. He realized she wasn't a fraud, was special and that after after all so was he too despite not being the Chosen One, you didn't need to be the Chosen One or human to be human. He realized she had been more human than human in a few of her actions than most of the humans he'd run into. But many seemed to fall for the trap where they ended up seeing her as just a fraud and taking it as some sad thing where the film just showed her to be a fraud and his experience with her a fraud and some even took his entire existence to be a fraud to make it doubly wrong. But that was the opposite point of the films. In this case it's all to much easier for people, the audience, to write her off as just some fake machine, they wanted to further expand people's views with this film, mirror the first film to another level.
The two close companions to K and Wallace are named Joi and Luv which are also two of the “fruits of the Spirit,” found in the Biblical book of Galatians. There’s a passing, unexplained reference to something called “Galatians syndrome” in the film, which seems to indicate this is something worth paying attention to. “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control,” the verse in Galatians reads, and then continues, importantly: “Against such things there is no law.”
Purefoldnz it also reminds me of Thx and Luh (sex&love) from Thx1138... You can have each separate but only the two together complete an extraordinary experience.
And in researching Galatians it seems to be about two different factions of early Christianity, those from Jewish background and those not, and how they did and didn’t get along. Similar to replicant/human relations in this film.
very interesting analysis guys
Thanks for that.
Good 2 know
The movie is the Joi subplot.
Okay, that's an exaggeration. I'm going to quote what some others have said. But that subplot is everything that makes it a Blade Runner movie.
In the original, replicants were essentially indistinguishable from humans, but their makers believed they had intrinsic ownership over because they had created them. This draws an obvious moral line that's the focus - or at least a major theme - of the movie. In 2049, the Wallace replicants are literally, objectively subhuman. Less than human. Human-minus. Minus the ability to say no, minus non-compliance, minus free will. They take a step back from the aspirational synthetic humanity of the first movie towards the realm of spec-designed tools. The VK in the first movie was there to identify flaws -- in the second, it's there to ensure them.
Rachel was a project, designed to further humanity's mastery over itself and its world. K is a product, designed to best fulfill the needs of his purchaser. Which is also exactly what Joi is. From the exact same manufacturer.
Any question, doubt, criticism, or cynicism you lay a Joi's feet has to be reflected upon K himself. K reflects it on K himself. I mean, after all, there was a scene where they literally physically merged in the frame and took the time to talk about how the entirety of both of their beings is summed up by the number of symbols *invokes Leto-Wallace voice* that a child could count to. On one hand, nonetheless. Sure, there's a 2-symbol disparity there, but it's the same discipline. If they can bind free will in the 4-symbol squishy organic human brain, binding it in a 2-symbol AI of their own design is a given.
So, what does his ownership of her mean? Is he any better than the humans that own and force compliance from him? Did he save her and provide her with a kindred spirit, or did he force-birth a slave to cover up his own existential dread and loneliness? When she talks about being a real girl, or truly being with K physically, is that just programming, or is it the drive of a sentient being in a cage? Is it any different than K's hope for being the child instead of a slave? When Joi's final words are, "I love you", does she mean it, or is it the cold calculation of 0s and 1s? What does 'meaning it' even mean? If her love isn't real, can his possibly be? Can he even love her if she's just a product? Can he ever actually be loved if that's all he is? Is that all either of them are?
When he's there in the rain, looking at the giant naked ad-Joi, what's he thinking? That his Joi was a fucking fraud, and he was duped into finding meaning in the meaningless? Or that that Joi isn't his Joi, despite whatever shared base they might both derive from? What do those answers mean for him as, y'know, someone who is designed and created to be replicated? Stemming from that answer, was his final run an act of suicidal nihilism, or him proving he could break the literal mold? Who knows? It should be noted that BOTH Deckard and K are presented with "fake" copies of their lovers at the same time. And, both reject them. Deckard clearly rejects the copy Rachel as he believes he had the "real" Rachel. But, we aren't told why K rejects the billboard Joi. That's left to us to decide.
The K-Joi dynamic is what makes it a successor to Blade Runner. Most of the rest is sequel-plotting in Blade Runner decor.
Luv literally says to K when his emanator chimes in his pocket when visiting Wallace office "So you are a customer too?". Implying that replicants can now be slaves and masters at the same time.
Screenshotted to read later
Yes, she was as key as K, at the least, Her plot was core Blade Runner, some seem to miss this.
"When he's there in the rain, looking at the giant naked ad-Joi, what's he thinking? That his Joi was a fucking fraud, and he was duped into finding meaning in the meaningless? Or that that Joi isn't his Joi, despite whatever shared base they might both derive from?"
I don't think he thought the former as some seemed to misinterpret it. The key was that he realized she was more than the low level, simple, early AI that also had no real world exposure and was constantly reset. He realized she was real and special and that he actually was too even though not being the Chosen One. All of a sudden his whole mood and actions changed and by the final scene he had reached a bit a peace and satisfaction in a way and he didn't do what either his creators nor even the replicant uprising leader had wanted him to do.
The first trap was fall for the view of some humans in the movies that replicants were somehow fakes and beneath them, the trap in this one extended it to ultra AI, it seems more fell for it fully this time reading many comments and reviews and so on around the next, although many didn't as well.
I liked how Blade Runner 2049 incorporated elements from other films and media which took inspiration from Blade Runner. It sort of makes it come full circle.
Pale Fire by Vladimir Nabokov is the book K is reading in his apartment and the poem in it is his base line test.
#700. Does not rhyme on the words that K repeats.
Which is seen briefly when K recomends it to Joi
The relationship with Joi was gorgeous. It was such a wonderful exploration of what is sentience and what is real. That whole storyline was crucial. It also explored how even the replicants look down on the ai persons.
exactly, finally someone else who notices that extra level how this film constantly double mirrors the first film
That scene after Joi and replicant lover are there, the next morning it was interesting in showing AI getting jealous and replicant feeling the need to try to put down a class deemed by many even beneath her class down.
You can't take it as gospel that the replicant just tells Joi to stop being so uppity and you are not as real as you think. That was just another layer to the film where it showed the replicant was maybe wanting someone to be lower than her and getting nervous that maybe that wasn't the case and then quipped out that comment to try to put Joi in her place to reassure herself. It is interesting that sometiems the downbeaten, instead of supporting and championing the rights of those deemed even lower than they, sometimes instead do the same thing they hate and are rebelling against to them. Humans trick themselves to think they are so above the replicants and the replicants are somehow just machines or something even though it's ridiculous since they have organic, human brains. And then some replicants (and tons of humans) end up doing the same thing just to AI. K seemed to be one of the few so fully treat AI as real and when he maybe started doubting everything on every level for a second, that ad at the end, that showed him how real Joi was, not how fake! That was a key bit, that snapped him out of it. He realized she was special and real and so was he and he didn't have to be the Chosen One to be human or more human than human or special or real or whatever you want to call it. It allowed him to get a bit of a sense of peace and satisfaction of sorts at the end.
Adam: "Deckard's a replicant."
*spoilers*
Kind of shocked that Adam, as big of a fan as he is, could be of this persuasion because it does not work in the context of either movie. It makes no sense at all in the first. Rachel is supposed to be a new, experimental model that are not only unaware that they are replicants, but also the first to have false memories implanted. Having Deckard being a replicant would mean he would be an older model with features of a new, experimental model. In the new movie, we also see that Wallace is ONLY interested in Deckard to uncover the location of the child, meaning they have no interest in studying him, which they would if he was a replicant as he would have been part of process in creating the child as a synthetic organism (we see that they even want the bones of Rachel).
Not if he was activated seconds before we first see him (but he's human)
They wouldn't need him for his reproductive capabilities though because he can't bear a child. I guess the idea of the experimental Rachel (nexus 7) would be that it doesn't matter if she falls in love with a replicant or a human she's still getting pregnant. Allowing the divide between human and android to be seamless.
Ridley Scott himself on the most recent Empire Podcast said he was a Replicant. Nuf Said
He was never meant to be a replicant. Writers, Producers and Ford all said it themselves, deleted scenes from the original, even the original narration do not support the idea that he's a replicant. Ridley just pulled a George Lucas, had an afterthought and added unused footage from Legend to pose a last question of what is real? The unicorn had no connection to Deckard, it was just a calling card left by Gaff to let Deckard know that he was there, but he decided not to kill Rachel, knowing that Deckard would leave with Rachel for good, which was the best opportunity for his (Gaffs) career. If this was an original production geared by something Ridley came up with all by himself, I'd fully support the idea of Deckard being a replicant. But Ridley was a last minute hire. Production was already in full swing before he had even signed onto the project.
Couldn't agree more !
In the end, The snow hits k's hand and the daughter the snow doesn't touch her's. He's fake in a real world. She's real in a fake world.
K's relationship with Joi was perhaps the greatest spiritual inheritance from the original film. Just as Deckard's love for Rachel lead us to question the bounds of love, spirit, and humanity -K and Joi do the same in 2049. We may not understand the technological explanations for how Joi's AI works, or if she can truly feel and express, but that only fuels the beautiful ambiguity. I think it was an essential arc to the story as a whole, and to understanding K's ultimate decisions.
I loved this ep, but oh my god, I feel like Will was trolling us by acting like he hadn't paid attention to the movie.
How many times do we have to say it ? The writers and the director, on purpose, left the Deckard question OPEN. That was the POINT. You don't KNOW. That's what makes it more interesting.
I think that the correct answer to the question "Is Rick Deckard a replicant?" isn't a yes or a no, it's "Does it even matter?"
Its open to interpretation because Harrison Ford didn't think Deckard was a replicant and says so to this day but Riddley Scott the director always says Deckard is a replicant and that the original movie makes no sense if he was not, and to be fair the new 2049 movie makes less sense if he is not a replicant.
Carl Hallberg the original cut makes sense if he isnt a replicant.
The directors cut makes sense if he is a replicant
Not really it just makes it more clear that he is a replicant as the director got annoyed there where so many people thinking Deckard wasn't a replicant that was unaware he was a replicant himself. And so the more people ignored the director shouting Deckard is a replicant , the more versions of the original movie we got.
Scott and Villeneuve literally say that Deckard is a replicant.
"I want them to make a shit ton of money so that they could make another if this kind" - never has a Man been so selfish for others, I'm thinking the same to just watch it in theatres again 🎥
The cinema's in desperate need for more intelligent hollywood movies like this
I don't think you guys got the takeaway that was intended with Joy. Just as with the replicants for whom the movies questions the existence of a soul, or self awareness, the movie asked you whether Joy was the same. It didn't matter that she wasn't able to take physical form. Was she sentient? Some of the actions she took throughout the movie effectively had me asking whether the programming was just that good, or if it was possible that she had grown past her programming.
I didn't take the large billboard Joy as implying that Joy actually wasn't gaining sentience since of course that version of Joy wasn't the same "person" despite looking the same.
Hmmm, lots of guys reading more into Joi than the movie tells us is there. Even Mackenzie Davis tells Joi that she isn't really all that sophisticated. And that's coming from a replicant. Joi is just a sophisticated algorithm designed to soothe and placate their license holder's ego.
@Siansonea Orande- No, the movie does tell us this. But it also sets up so that it can trick some people and then shock maybe after once they realize how oh no I did the same thing the humans had done towards the replicants. And that scene actually told us the opposite. And it showed us both a replicant and an AI both getting a little jealous and trying to stake their place. Joi started acting jealous and then really so once replicant lover was holding K's horse and all and she was just like shoo, just get out of here and suddenly clearly getting all jealous and yet K was not around so it wasn't just programming for his benefit. And the replicant was maybe wanting someone to be lower than her and getting nervous that maybe that wasn't the case and quipped out that comment to try to put Joi in her place and reassure herself. It is interesting that sometiems the downbeaten instead of supporting and championing the rights of those deemed even lower than they sometimes instead do the same thing they hate and are rebelling against to them.
Exactly, they all need to go back and revisit the movie. They missed one the of the most key points in the entire movie.
I mean what was the whole more human than human thing all about? You were supposed to realize or at least eventually realize it applied on two levels not just one.
I totally disagree with Adam and Will about Joi. I thought she was by far the most interesting character in the film, and her and K's relationship was great. Adam said it was gross that K was essentially in love with a thoughtless computer program, but I read her as a living being sans body. Joi is essentially the same as K, or any other replicant except that she has no body. Their relationship, for me, was a beautiful analog for my own long distance relationship. It explored how we express love without being physically with someone. It's about gestures of kindness (the emitter) and sacrifice (becoming mortal, essentially). You could also argue that Joi was just following her programming and giving K what he wanted to see/hear as the ad indicated toward the end of the film, but I think that Deckard's conversation with Wallace shows that it doesn't matter. Maybe she was programmed to love him, but how is that any different, in general terms, than what made me fall in love with my girlfriend?
@dasutin: Great comment. I also considered their relationship to be an exemplary platonic love. The fact that you could relate to this so well due to your long distance relationship is quite beautiful!
Joi was a virtual intelligence with a hologram interface, nothing more. And replicants aren't like that at all. I would argue that they're not even artificial intelligence, but rather sythetic or engineered intelligences. Their brains are organic matter, like a human's. They use the same architecture as a human. They're just built from the ground up in specific ways. Joi is just a simulacrum, a game version of the sophisticated memory systems that Wallace creates for its replicants, but not really a sentient/sapient being.
The only proof we have to go on is what Wallace as a company says about Joi. They regard her as a product, but this is also true for replicants. I don't think there's anything that specifically says she's just a VI. Blade Runner, to me, is about examining what our requirements are for something to be alive. I think maybe for a lot of people, the jump from human to replicant isn't a hard one to make, because as you said, they're flesh. But I'm struggling to think of anything that K did in the film that Joi didn't also do. They were both selfless, romantic, profoundly sad, determined, encouraging, and in the end, they both died for something they believed in (which the Resistance says is the closest they can be to human). And yes, you could argue she learned all that from K because of her programming, which is probably true. But if she can learn something as complicated as love and sacrifice, then it counts as alive. After all, people always say "fake it 'till you make it" right?
I think people find the idea of Joi tremendously seductive, and are therefore doing exactly what Joi's intended customers do: they try to make her seem like more than she is. But all we see in the movie is a glorified ELIZA program with an attractive character model hologram attached to it. Nothing Joi does in the movie hints at anything close to consciousness, and both Mackenzie Davis' replicant prostitute and Luv tell us that Joi is not really a conscious entity. "We hope you like our product".
You're right, though, the movie DOES ask us to examine what are requirements are for something to be considered alive. The replicants are shown to pass that test. They live, they breathe, they think, they cry, they make sacrifices, they yearn for freedom and they even lie. Joi is paused for an incoming phone call, and 'dies' when a small appliance is stepped on. There is nothing really autonomous about anything she did, everything was completely within the purview of her programming-making K feel like the most special boy. When he sees the Joi hologram 'billboard' late in the movie, and she says 'what a special Joe' he is, it's obvious that the filmmaker is telling us that Joi was never more than a product designed to assuage loneliness. "Everything you want to see, everything you want to hear" is her advertising tagline. And really, did she ever violate that mandate? Did she ever do anything that made it seem like she was more than just a video game character? Did she ever challenge or contradict K? Did she ever put 'her own needs' before his? Her 'death' was the moral equivalent of losing your saved game data, and it's clear that K realizes that when he sees the Joi advertisement.
Who said anything about Joi being worthless? She was quite an expensive product, if memory serves. Of course K found Joi tremendously compelling and misses his interaction with her. His feelings are real, even if she is little more than ones and zeros. And people can love all sorts of things, but that doesn't make them people. People love giant pillows with illustrations on them, people love silicone dolls. But they're still not sentient creatures. Everything to do with this conversation about Joi is couched in how K feels about 'her', NOT whether she might have her own consciousness or inner life or volition. So yes, one's holographic girlfriend can certainly be something one values, but I wouldn't exactly give it the right to vote or anything.
The other film you were trying to think of by Dennis Villeneuve is called Enemy.
Movie discussion starts at 14:58
Adam says Deckard and K are both replicants, but the screenwriter and director do not agree :) Deckard is very definitely NOT a match for Gosling in the movie, I don't get where he's getting that. At the very least, this movie is a sequel to both the theatrical and the DC/FC (Villeneuve loves both), meaning that he's both a replicant and questionably a replicant at the same time. Which is great because it brings back the ambiguity that Ridley Scott is determined to destroy.
The *real* snowflakes on K's hand are directly juxtaposed with the *fake* snowflakes on the memory-maker's hand. They are nearly smash-cut together as a pointed-juxtaposition.
And yet, ironically, the only effect in the whole movie that I thought didn't work *was* the falling snow...
how so? It was using the fucked up environment's weather to demonstrate a moment of humanity for K
The snow falling on K as he lay on the steps didn't look real to me. It was very uniform. Looked like it had been added in post production and took me out of the moment.
ugh, please. audiences don't even try anymore to invest themselves in the movies they watch. It's a bridge building experience, the audience has to do half the work in order for the story-telling to work. If the audience goes into the movie unwilling to buy into the experience, then it all falls apart, and it's the audience member's fault. Be willing to believe. I never once considered the "quality" of the snow. I was too busy being invested in the story being told.
I have a different take on the Joy character and the relationship between her and K. K is completely alone in this film, he's a replicant that kills other replicants, he is accepted by neither humans or other replicants.
I think his relationship with Joy is a need for companionship & to make his life seem "normal" . It made me see his character as being more sympathetic. Replicants aren't just emotionless robot slaves, they have all the emotional needs that a human does and that made his treatment by the humans seem even more tragic.
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I was on the fence about Joy's capacity for free thought until the moment that giant holograph of her calls him "Joe", at that moment I think K realized that her "Love" was probably just an excellent facsimile of the real emotion, everything he thought was real / human (himself, Joy's emotions for K) were fake.
I also don't think even Joy herself was aware of her own programming.
I must have missed the line where SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER K tells Decker not to call him by the name given to him by his Joi after seeing that billboard follow a similar logic path.
...oh wait. He didn't tell Decker to stop using that name. He kept that name rather than go back. K realized that even if he and Joi were artificial products following their programming: She had meaning to him and it's not something he needed to ask a human or another replicant to justify.
I don't think your take on Joi is any different from anyone elses
Adam referred to Joi as a fleshlight, I was addressing his comment
Joy G the thing with this movie is each element has layers. There's not just one thing to take from each scene, theme or character. Joi is also a sexual term for example
I agree, that's what makes this movie so great, but I disagree that Joi is JUST a "fleshlight", there's more nuance to this film than that.
I absolutely love the Joy character. It asks some of the most interesting questions in the entire movie. She's clearly an evolving AI and the Joy that K is "with" is no longer the generic product, she has her own fears and desires that developed over time. Her emitter getting destroyed to me personally was powerful because it was about wether that was just destroying someone's property or essentially killing a person. There's a also that additional bond between two artificial beings. To K she's no more fake than he is himself.
Joi demonstrates agency and self-sacrifice by telling K to destroy her original projector, which ultimately leads to her demise when Luv destroys her emanator. This exactly matches the definition of love that Adam applies to K. So I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Joi as a "holographic fleshlight."
exactly, and further, she gets really jealous and can't control it by the time the replicant lover starts handling K's special horse and she is just like shoo, get out of here at that point and yet K is not even around to act for; also when K crashes, she is worried, panicked but he is unconscious and there is nobody for her to act to, even the rain, before he even sees her she is already reacting in a way that maybe hints at the truth or at least is maybe a sign she is starting to grow beyong the basic programming from having been out in the world both a while and having been treated so humanly by K assuming she wasn't already there to start if you really insist on getting more gradual and tentative about it
And that scene with Joi and the replicant lover where Joi started acting jealous. You can't take it as gospel that the replicant just tells Joi to stop being so uppity and you are not as real as you think. That was just another layer to the film where it showed the replicant was maybe wanting someone to be lower than her and getting nervous that maybe that wasn't the case and then quipped out that comment to try to put Joi in her place to reassure herself. It is interesting that sometiems the downbeaten, instead of supporting and championing the rights of those deemed even lower than they, sometimes instead do the same thing they hate and are rebelling against to them. Humans trick themselves to think they are so above the replicants and the replicants are somehow just machines or something even though it's ridiculous since they have organic, human brains. And then some replicants (and tons of humans) end up doing the same thing just to AI. K seemed to be one of the few so fully treat AI as real and when he maybe started doubting everything on every level for a second, that ad at the end, that showed him how real Joi was, not how fake! That was a key bit, that snapped him out of it. He realized she was special and real and so was he and he didn't have to be the Chosen One to be human or more human than human or special or real or whatever you want to call it. It allowed him to get a bit of a sense of peace and satisfaction of sorts at the end.
Blade Runner 2049 resolves all speculations about the true nature of the replicants from the very first frame of the movie. The introductory text explicitly states that replicants are bioengineered humans, i.e. NOT artificial life forms. This explains Lt. Joshi's fear of the ramifications of Rachel's pregnancy ("This breaks the world. Do you know what that means?") as well as the corporation's motivation for tracking down the child and eradicating all evidence of its birth. If the replicants' ability to procreate was revealed to the public it would expose the dark secret at the bottom of it all: Replicants are no less human than anyone else.
This revelation casts Eldon Tyrell in a completely different light. Rather than the genius inventor of artificial life, Tyrell is revealed as a cynical butcher who figured out how to hack the human genome and produce a genetically modified race of mutants. His motivation in dehumanizing his progeny and misrepresenting them as artificial life forms was to sanitize his ruthless business model of selling them into slavery.
Niander Wallace affirms this corporate strategy with his unapologetic observation, "Every leap of civilization was built on the back of a disposable workforce." For the replicants to accept their fate as compliant slaves, it is crucial they remain brainwashed into disregarding all evidence of their own suppressed humanity. This is the brutal realization Deckard has been running from his entire career.
Joi is not a fucking flesh light! I'm shocked at Adams coldness towards this.... She risked her own life all be it virtual by having K destroy her in the apartment and only exist on the handheld.
The themes of the film are fantastic. MORE HUMAN THAN HUMAN, still a powerful thesis. Joi finds humanity in her arc, self-sacrificing for K, K self-sacrifices after realizing he's just a sheep (yet he's more than that), Luv expresses an extension of Niander Wallace and his agenda, and demonstrates his ultimate lack of humanity (he's devoid of it). By the way, one of the devices that wasn't plugged into behind Wallace's ear had a Persian word on it that translates to "Demon".
Nosajjao, well said.
BlazeOrangeDeer I speculated that was a dog and linked it to Deckard's dog, but seems far fetched even to me
I agree, except I think Joi was not special. All she did was was follow her programming. She told K she was special, which is what he wanted to hear. He also wanted her to go with him, so Joi did. She never went against her programming so to me she was not real.
Zach X ! Fancy meeting you here. Try as I might, I can't see Joi as special either. Her character is meant to engage speculation, I'm sure, but her perfect algorithmically calculated prettiness works against my being able to assign any genuine/unique characteristics to her. A friend suggested that was the point of her - every man's dream according to best available information. I'm not able to buy it. I'd like to, because it fits so nicely with the humanistic themes, but no...
Jess Jones, that was definitely an origami sheep.
I think Joi went off her baseline, same as K. The entire plot of the film is about replicants / A.I. evolving into something beyond than what they were designed for, so I think this carries over into Joi as well. And like the Dekkard question, it remains more interesting as something unresolved. But as I see it, Joi loved him, and the moment this is made clear is when she brings a physical lover to K's apartment. She seemed jealous and told her she could leave pretty quick the next morning, and this was not said for K's benefit - he wasn't in the room.
exactly
Deckard is not a replicant.
Carlos Saraiva no he’s not not a replicant? XD
"Holographic fleshlight"
Not so sure about this. She clearly has agency (displayed when she goes to hire the prostitute), self-awareness (displayed when she feels the rain drops for the first time), ability to gain memories (discussed when they talk about how she will 'die' if they transfer her to the emanator and its destroyed), and to act both in her own interests (again when she shows how she wants to discover the world on her own) and in the interests of others (when she tries to help K). I think the point of her character is to take it another step beyond replicants towards artificial life forms and have the audience again ask what it means to be a real, sentient being. If you think her character arc is irrelevant, then you missed the point.
They did a good job of hiding some important plot points before release. I was totally surprised that Joi was an AI hologram, having assumed that she was probably a replicant, and I was almost as shocked as Deckard when the copy of Rachel walked in. There were even articles about how Sean Young wasn't in this movie at all and a quote of her saying that she guessed they weren't interested in having her in the film. You could argue that it was technically true, as the Rachel that appears is a CGI rendering, but she definitely recorded dialog. So that came as a huge surprise, and it was such a cruel thing to do to Deckard that it was one of the most memorable parts of the story, for me.
God damn it, After watching this, I need to see it for a third time, yet I'm dead broke. We will not see another film of this scale and layers for a very very long time in my opinion. I'm just soooo glad it had the budget and got made.
As an american i am disappointment in the box office here in the us. We have to many knuckle draggers that just want generic star wars, transformers and tyler perry movies every year and its sad. Please save this film japan and china.
I'm european and I'm disappointed too, but not surprised. I often take himself in thinking that it's always the americans that don't go support the really great, original movies while at the same time shows like Collider and other american youtube shows bad mouthes Asia for supporting Transformers, Fast Furious etc. I might be wrong in this assumption, but all the greats movies almost always fails in America and it's pissing me off. The problem lies not with Asia they essentially supports the production companies and industry, the problem lies in America itself.
It’s doing nicely in European Countries.
I don't predict it will do well in China. The trashiest films top the box office there, and a lot of things can be lost in translation.
The best way to hide a unicorn...
Remove the horn. Make it a horse.
Bladerunner discussion starts at 14:58
Thanks for the shout out Adam!!!!
One of the questions that I have that I don't expect to be answered is the link to Alien. It is confirmed, thanks to Prometheus, that they are the same universe. The burning question I immediately had thanks to that little eater egg was thus: What is the functional difference between an Android, such as Ash and Bishop, and Replicates? They are both synthetic life forms, both are better and worse than humans in some way, so what are the differences? Best I can tell is that one is grown and the other is made, but even that's a guess.
I watched this last night in my home theater. I have a room that is completely and totally covered in triple black velvet with a 120in projection screen with masking for 2.35 content. I have a high contrast JVC projector and several subs and atmos speakers. The effect of the velvet is to make the room completely and totally disappear so all you see is a screen floating in nothingness, very cool and not something you will find in a cinema.
Amazing movie, just so beautiful. Did not feel long at all as I felt so immersed in the world. Every performance was exceptional and so perfectly nuanced. What a perfect sequel for a world with so many disappointing re boots and sequels.
Envy
Saw it on the weekend & LOVED IT! Glad I went in cold!
I think you guys are looking at K's relationship to Joi in too black-and-white of terms. HE doesn't even seem sure how he feels about her, but you guys seems to shrug her off as a non-person. I don't think it's a stretch to say that an AI's exhibition of agency and emotion that's (on its surface) every bit as sincere as K's puts her in the conversation with other Real People. She clearly DOES have agency, by making unilateral plans and decisions off-camera. I think K can be seen visibly struggling to reconcile her realness with the fact he bought her from someone who built her. The inconclusive question of whether she counts as a person and why mirrors the same question as it's applied to replicants.
Exactly, that was the whole point of both films. This one really set the trap and I feel they all walked right into it and still haven't come to the realization that they have become just like the humans were in the first film and many were in the second film. They are the humans not seeing the humanity, the realness, the specialness in replicants but not seeing it Joi. They are making the same mistake. The whole point in this one was to expand it a layer deeper and show how one can possibly get tricked and fall for the trap (as we see quite a few viewers, themselves included, did).
The whole ending with the billboard should actually be read in completely the opposite way and when you do that then the full power of the ending comes into play and it makes his actions make sense.
YES! "So I Married an Axe Murderer" is the absolute BEST Mike Myers movies. Sigh... Thank you.
I dont understand Adam saying Joi isnt real yet the replicant girl is. As far as i could tell Joi was as conscious as any of the replicants so her "death" is just as big a deal as any of the physical replicants, the only difference is their body's are human-like and Joi's is the little black stick, yes she is programmed to be his loving wife but K is programmed to be a blade runner. They are just different forms of hardware with Extremely advanced software. So why is she less of a "Person"
Can I just say, if you want more films like this, then go see it. If you already have, go see it again!
They start talking about the movie at 16:05. The intro is all NY Comic Con recap.
I am surprised by how cynical you guys are about Joi, what you guys are saying about her could easily be said about K, or Rachel, or Roy Batty. The whole theme of both films are these people becoming more 'human', and Joi is a huge part if that. Both K and Joi are mass produced products meant for a specific purpose, K is an emotionless assassin, and Joi is a devoted partner. Wether her love is programed or not, does it even matter? If Deckard were a replicant, he was 'programed' to love Rachel. Joi's relationship simply brings up far to many questions about love, free will, obedience and way more for you guys to dismiss here as simply a fleshlight.
You have to appreciate the amazing mental gymnastics of a replicant cop, making love to a holographic girlfriend, overlaid with a replicant prostitute. How much more meta does it get when our machines require the same emotions, connections, physical intimacy of a human. I thought that whole thought process was amazing, and really reminded me of the series "Humans" and the whole process of if these replicants are appliances, beings, things, etc...
Watching this makes me want to see it a 3rd time. Favorite sci fi in maybe a few decades.
This is the best blade runner analogy i have seen so far. Love the insights, thought i knew everything. This opened up even more then i thought.
here is something for Adam to think about: Deckard, who is an unclear replicant (I think the point of the original Blade Runner is to ask the question, not necessarily to answer it), handling his gun - when he shoots Zora, it's a very intense scene - you can almost feel (pun intended) the weight of the trigger pull. And what does K do? Bam, bam! Double tap straight to the head - cold and mechanical. I thought that was a great contrast.
Also - the way the new film takes elements of the original, and (like Adam said - very subtly) puts them in the universe in a way that feels organic. Like the scene where they find Rachel's serial number, which meshes the Esper, and snake scale scenes from the original. Or the two more nods to esper with the fire support, and the LV drone reconnaisance.
Sapper does age, when k scans the eye in the car a file photo of sapper is displayed showing him as younger
Adam, the other film from Denis you were thinking of was, "Enemy".
Thanks for doing this podcast, guys. I've seen a lot of movie reviews for 2049, but this is the first video I've seen where true fans just talk about the film. It was great hearing your thoughts.
I'm going to see the film for the second time this weekend, I really hope more people check it out.
Great episode guys! Amazing movie that left me feeling the same way I did after seeing the original for the first time, something no other movie has done. Will mentioned not knowing for sure if Wallace was blind. In case you guys missed it, he used those little black fish like things to see. If you look closely, they have little lenses on them and follow next to him when he walks. Also, when he is sitting with Deckard towards the end and he pulls the chip out from behind his ear, the little floating cameras swim away. I picked up on that after my second viewing. Like you said, so much to unpack!
Joi, and K's relationship was the emotional heart of the film. With many levels of thought that goes to it.
I think this podcast would be better without Will. He mostly antagonises the other two, instead of adding to the conversation
Around the 57:00 mark you guys missed the point about souls.
In the beginning of the movie, Wallace and Madam hammered home the justification of having a slave labor force, being "because they weren't born, they have no soul." But in the story, K proves that the ability to love gives you a soul, not your birth.
@ 40:12 I'm surprised the Replicant + Human = child discussion wasn't brought up when talking about the Joi + K + hooker threesome. As Adam mentioned there could be multiple spin offs of this movie... one being K's child being born!?! This movie was so good!
The only problem with this idea is that Wallace never achieved Tyrell's ability to make replicant's that can reproduce. No one knows how many Nexis 7's were ever made but K and all the present Replicants are not able to.
And the end scene where Joe feels the snow, is his realization not that he's fake, but that he's real in the sense that he can love and feel empathy for others. And then the snow metaphor is reinforced again when Deckards daughter is admiring the snow in her lab. The snow is used to illustrate this 3 times.
I only saw this movie this week and it is currently my favorite sci-fi movie ever. Absolutely beautiful film.
Approx. 12:00 - so with you wrt being in costume and the whole picture taking protocol. Troop with Star Wars group and we always get the 'snipe' from behind. Competent handlers/spotters are key for complex costumes and helmeted costumes with limited position/vision - both to help get pictures taken and to avoid collisions/trampling. Lucky that our handlers 'manage' the picture taking extremely well at busy Cons. But yes, there are certain individuals that do not endure themselves to having their picture taken with oneself... :-)
I believed Joi (and her emotions) to be real. After all the old Nexus 6's proved to be capable of real emotions.
A replicant is a machine being run by a program. Joi is also a program, but she only controls a hologram.
So the killing of Joi i thought was incredibly cruel. Made me look at Luv and think "You unbelievably vile, cruel, monstrous ... etc..."
The cruelest thing I have ever seen done to anybody on screen happened in an episode of Black Mirror called White Christmas. If you've seen it you'll know why I mention it. I you haven't then do. It is THE scariest thought that has ever entered my mind
ooh
Most likely the best film of 2017. My fav for sure.
Great movie openings. Lord or War comes to mind. Following that bullet from production floor to deadly shot immediately lays out the connection and disconnect between the business of war and the deadly price of war.
To build on the idea of the theme being love, notice that deckard says “sometimes to love someone you have to be a stranger” and at the end of the film deckard says to K “so what are you to me?”and K tells him “go see your daughter” he learns what it means to be a living being and what it means to love, beautiful
I have to disagree with the thoughts about Joi just being a toy of sorts. To me it was another story of humanity and what it means to be human. Something similar was portrayed in the movie Her where the protagonist had a romantic relationship with a computer/program. Our technology is rapidly getting more and more sophisticated to a point where i think computers can seem just as aware and alive as we are. Our brains are essentially computers as well that process a ton of information. I think the movie is hinting at a future where we will have to start asking what is real, and it wont be a topic exclusive to deeper talks. It's going to be an every day topic and probably even commercialized (like you see in 2049, a lot of the products are "people"). Computers are already such a big part of our lives, it would make sense for it to get integrated to such an extent. Also our lives are subject to our imagination and i feel like our society has a sort of its own imagination that we all subconsciously follow.
Anyway sorry for the rant but this is one of the most interesting subjects to me and I feel very strongly about it. Would love to hear other peoples opinions though!
Exactly! I think Adam and Will and to a slightly lesser extent Norm essentially ended up missing what is ultimately one of the key points of the whole film. They fell for the initial trap just as most humans did in the first film and even second film. The Joi arc was utterly integral to the entire film.
And you can go back and see hints of it all over if you missed it the first or second or third times. And further, she gets really jealous and can't control it by the time the replicant lover starts handling K's special horse and she is just like shoo, get out of here at that point and yet K is not even around to act for; also when K crashes, she is worried, panicked but he is unconscious and there is nobody for her to act to, even the rain, before he even sees her she is already reacting in a way that maybe hints at the truth or at least is maybe a sign she is starting to grow beyong the basic programming from having been out in the world both a while and having been treated so humanly by K assuming she wasn't already there to start if you really insist on getting more gradual and tentative about it
And that scene with Joi and the replicant lover where Joi started acting jealous. You can't take it as gospel that the replicant just tells Joi to stop being so uppity and you are not as real as you think. That was just another layer to the film where it showed the replicant was maybe wanting someone to be lower than her and getting nervous that maybe that wasn't the case and then quipped out that comment to try to put Joi in her place to reassure herself. It is interesting that sometiems the downbeaten, instead of supporting and championing the rights of those deemed even lower than they, sometimes instead do the same thing they hate and are rebelling against to them. Humans trick themselves to think they are so above the replicants and the replicants are somehow just machines or something even though it's ridiculous since they have organic, human brains. And then some replicants (and tons of humans) end up doing the same thing just to AI. K seemed to be one of the few so fully treat AI as real and when he maybe started doubting everything on every level for a second, that ad at the end, that showed him how real Joi was, not how fake! That was a key bit, that snapped him out of it. He realized she was special and real and so was he and he didn't have to be the Chosen One to be human or more human than human or special or real or whatever you want to call it. It allowed him to get a bit of a sense of peace and satisfaction of sorts at the end.
Pausing at 34:21 while fresh in my head, so this may be discussed later, but...
Speaking to the idea of replicants and agency, I thought that it was very interesting that K chose to lie to his lieutenant about having completed his secret mission. It's made fairly clear that these latest generation replicants are thought to be perfectly loyal; that they can't disobey and they can't lie. But K deliberately lies about the details of the case, even though they're based on his own misconception about his identity. And then we have Luv openly declaring to Joshi that she's going to lie to Wallace about being attacked first, so that she HAD to kill her. It works well with the slave metaphor. The masters often imagine that their slaves are more docile and controlled than they really are. We see in even the "loyal" replicants a seed of rebellion and self determination.
ETA: Less than two minutes later Adam says the same thing about K lying to Joshi.
I question whether that IS a lie. It's more of a Clintonism. As I recall, he said "it's been handled," thinking that he was the missing baby, so what he meant was, "I solved the mystery of who the baby is." That's not a lie. He was just mistaken. I'd have to rewatch to see what his exact orders were regarding the baby, but (somebody correct me if I'm wrong) didn't she sent him to "deal with it."
Interesting note on the architecture of the Wallace HQ, most of the interiors were based on a proposal for a Spanish neanderthal museum by Estudio Barozzi Veiga. The production company licensed the design several years ago and the architect forgot all about it until he saw the trailer.
Loving your podcast - watching now - just saw the movie and have the soundtrack playing in the background while listening :-)
I'm worried with how 2049 is tracking below expectations, Villeneuve isn't going to get as much creative freedom as he wants with "Dune" and that would be tragic.
One thing I noticed about the Baseline test scenes was that with the first one, it felt like a breaking point between the chaotic and 'dirty' (perhaps 'lived in' is a better term) world outside and the ordered world inside. The room itself is removed, clinical, perfect; it both analyses and reflects the perfection of the Replicants which pass through it, and serves as an airlock between the organisation within and the threat(s) outside.
In the second scene, the wall to the viewer's left of the machine was noticeably weathered and scuffed... This may have been the case in the first scene as well but I did not notice it (I have only seen it once so far, in full IMAX 3d) and it was certainly noticeable given that the scene immediately preceding it began the 'weathering' process of K. The 'rot' is beginning for the organisation within, and the external threats are amassing.
I also don't think that the choice of the letter K was mere happenstance given the character's detachment from his processes and processing. He knows that he is part of and party to something which is both larger than him and which already has a significant amount of momentum. The term Kafkaesque is overused, but I can't help myself from drawing parallels to The Trial.
Finally, the subtlety of call backs to the original was perfect. The one which made me gasp out loud was the tiles in K's apartment... Nice nod.
53:00 But the Tom Cruise hand gestures were the basis for our real world touch screen gesture controls.
I cant wait until we get some good resolution on mainstream VR headsets to watch movies in a VR movie theater. Yeah you can do it now but it still feels a little lacking res wise enough to be fully enjoyable. I want that to experience a movie like Blade Runner like it should be experienced.
A movie opening I love is from Serenity, Wheddon's movie adaptation of the tv show Firefly. From the school to the lab and then unto the ship...not bad for someone's first movie.
53:54 Guys. Adam is right. That was clear to me too (in 30 minutes im going to bed watching it) 1-She knows the difference between real and false memories 2- Said that no real memories can be used in the replicants. 3-"what makes your memories so authentic?" K asks. "...well, there's a bit of every artist in their work" she replies..etc- at the end Deckard sees her playing with that "make-memories-thing-prop-Adam-saw" re-creating the scene in the snow outside, at the same time that K was looking at the snow when he dies (also in the first visit he stand still looking how the snowflakes fell in his hand). HOW LUCKY and happy was the end: To avoid the Revolution, The Army, the war, The Killing of Deckard by K who faked his dead, so Deckard....NO!. So SHE! can be with her father. : P and so on. Like a chain of dominoes... See you guys around.
I would like to know the symbolism about the bees and the hives before the reveal of Deckard
You guys briefly mentioned Nolan, and i couldnt help but think that the opening of Dark Knight was amazing. I just love the way he
sets up the Joker.
Great opening: Serenity!
Joy was built by the company that wanted to find K, I thought she was going to deceive K at some point or at least be corrupted to do something against her will..
Oh boy, have I ever been waiting for this one. Nobody disturb me for the next 75 minutes.
Absolutely Laputa has one of the great openings of all time. It's dense with exposition yet it feels light and kinetic. It's completely disorienting because you're absorbing the setting and every two seconds is unexpected right up until the chilling instant before the opening credits.
The poem is an extract from Vladimir Nabokovs book 'Pale Fire'. Same book as K has in his apartment, that Joi asks for him to read.
Finally got around to seeing Bladerunner and came back to watch this video !
These podcast mic arms are amazing.
So freaking full of data, I loved this!!!! You went quantum on this review! Cheers!
There's two cinemas local to me and one of them really does it right, the sound was stupendous and they don't light up the room during the credits. Bitchin seats too and free refills like they have in the USA. Showcase > Vue
The central character is named after Kafka's Josef K, there's a lot connecting it to The Trial is the way the story pans out and there's some visual similarities to the Orsen Welles Film of The Trial. I think also the Orphanage area owes a lot to Lebbeus Woods.
So just because Joi has to love K (according to her programming) - that means she's less alive? I disagree. Presumably her AI could be just as sophisticated as any replicant. Is her love less real, just because it's forced? I think you could argue that certain pets, like dogs, are almost forced to love us because we've bred them over so many years to behave that way - it's like their programming. We still get pretty sad when they die though, and we still consider their love genuine.
The story of the artificial boy trying to live in the real world mirroring the real girl trying to live in an artificial world. To me, a lot of this movie is about where do you draw the line between AI and human. If an AI is able to talk to you and let you experience a full range of emotions and you'd never know they weren't human, why should we treat them any differently than if they really were human. Where is the line and should there even be one?
Eyes are a crucial symbol to Blade Runner. If you look at Joi she has gorgeous eyes. Except when you see the giant hologram of Joi at the end. She has black eyes. Eyes are the window to the soul. Through out the movie we see a Joi that has memories and acts upon those memories. She is just as real as you or me. (Are we not all programmed to an extent? Whether nature or nurture, we don't control all our thoughts or feelings.) These Joi programs may not start off with a "soul" but I would argue that they do form one. Each program may start off the same, but they change with the world around them, learn, and grow.
Great observation!
Den Of Thieves chucks you in straight into the plot, really good intense robbery intro
Interlude:
The Rain/Snow scene happens 3 times in the movie - each creating a SPECIFIC emotion, giving/creating dimension!
1. Joi walks into the rain = SHE BECOMES 'real' in the real world - an AI stepping OUT of its projection into the realest phenomenon in the world (rain) (first dimension)
2. K 'knows' that his memories ARE real = he steps out into the snow FEELING for the first time - a 'being' that was a AI-slave BECOMES 'real' - he was ripped out of his shackles and grounded in life - his realization goes from: I DO to I AM! (second dimension)
3. K KNOWS he is a replicant BUT he also KNOWS he has a choice; in that HE REALLY BECOMES REAL - he becomes HUMAN (in the emotional sense) - with feelings, depths, purpose and love! Accepting his true nature, adapting to what is MEANINGFUL to him = the sacrifice in saving Deckard; bringing back together a family and possibly in that starting a revolution! (third dimension)
Look at Norm's uncomfortable mannerisms @ 26:06. Watch his eyes ... LOL. Very polite. I mean its hard to stop the gingerfest! Love you Norm.
I won't watch this video because I don't have any interest in anyone else's opinion about BR2049, but I jumped to your timepoint - Wow. William must be trolling. What a ridiculous thing to say. Norm demonstrated inhuman self control I think.
Totally agree, its amazing how everyone else in the comment section isn't aware of that..so painfully obvious. First he has to let Adam speak his share then Will simply interjects the conversation right after..Norm took it in. Respects. This was not easy to watch, tbh one of the worst review videos they made by far, they need a proper mediator or interview setting to start of firstly.
26:06 to 26:13, touches his head, then his watch. Later after Adam farts Norm touches his nose, then lips in a 'hush' gesture lol. It's also funny to me that Norm hides behind that gigantic mic. At one point he adjusted it, which prompted Adam to fiddle with his mic.
Maybe my favorite subtle point in the film is when the billboard Joi calls K a "good Joe." I think it just proved that all of the Jois were the same and that she didn't genuinely love him like he hoped. That then allows him to move on and save Deckard at the end, and it also points out the difference between an AI and an artificial lifeform with true sentience.
Best line of the film is Luv saying to Joi "I Hope you enjoyed our product" just before crushing Joi's eminator.
At 54:20 they talk about Rachel's daughter. My thought is even though two replicants managed to fall in love and have a child, the child really "did" have a genetic problem as the result of this attempt at procreation. This idea alone leaves the plan of Wallace trying to create a replicant race that can reproduce, is in fact a failure of Wallace as well. This is a continuation of his failures to do the same thing with the replicant he killed at the beginning when he slit her stomach open.
stormtroopers routinely get hammered on the top of the head when people want to take photos. people think that they can smack the trooper because its armor. I have had many times where boys have tried to steal parts from the back, namely the detonator clipped on the belt. Also i cannot tell you how many photos i have taken with women, that i have seen after the fact, where they have put their hand on the cod piece because they think its a funny photo to take with a trooper. When in costume you cannot feel it, cannot see down, and do not notice it with the hard armor until you see the photo after the fact. Being in costume is its own experience. I would recommend that a fully costumed person always has a handler with them when in a crowded place.
These discussions will go on endlessly like those that still abound over 2001 A Space Odyssey. It’s a true classic.
Is this the first time Adam has successfully gone undiscovered at a comic con?
The point of Joi is that K is essentially a pariah. He's 1) Not human and 2) He's a blade runner. So he's ostracized by both humans *and* replicants. He wants to connect with someone/thing and has found that connection in Joi.