Machine Shop Tips: Reading Dials on a Manual Lathe
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- Опубліковано 13 жов 2019
- Here is a video requested by some of my viewers - some details on how to read the dials on a manual metal lathe. We will discuss determining how your dial is calibrated - to either direct read the cross feed travel or the amount of metal removed from the stock. A good introduction for beginners in the machine shop.
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Brilliantly done
THANK YOU...for sharing. Thanks for the refresher course.
Useful info as always Keith, thanks for sharing,
Cheers
Hey Keith, thanks for this video, I know to many of your viewers out their they watch your videos as an interest to follow what you are doing but there are many of us that watch to glean info. I live in a small town and watching you, and guys like you, is a tutorial, a real learning experience so thanks for taking the time to go back to basics periodically as it ia a huge help to many of us. Many thanks again
Wow! It would be wonderful to have a few more videos like that.
I appreciate the video and for you getting back to on my request for the video!
Love machine educational content. Great job Keith.
Great tip Keith, thanks
Nice to get an early AM west coast video from Keith, have a great week. Lance & Patrick.
Great information Keith.
Great info Keith Thank's.
Great.video Keith, the simple things are always the best 👍🏼
Keith, between you and Keith Fenner, the best videos are a result always interesting and informative!
Thank you Keith!
Thanks for the tip .
Top video Keith. Thanks a lot
Thank you, clear enough and with examples.
Great tips Keith. Thanks for sharing.
That machine cleaned up nice, good job mr. keith
thank you so much this was so helpful
Excellent Video Thank You!!!
I'm glad the more experienced content producers are still making videos like this.
Thanks again for an informative video, coffee and a video from Keith makes for an even better day! Now if the rain would stop !!
very good video keith, thank you
Thanks very much for this video
On behalf of newbies everywhere thanks for this. Salut
KEITH - That is a beautiful lathe. Interesting difference. Thanks
Thank you Keith! As a want-to-be machinist these basics are very helpful. Many thanks!
thanks for the info
Another great video. Thanks for keeping true to the channel and bringing informative information. Might be just me, but other creators are not really creating anymore.
Thanks Keith for sharing 👍👍👍❤️
Always interesting thanks for sharing Keith 👍🇦🇺⚙️
Thanks Keith. I've often questioned your cuts as to what actually happens to the diameter of the work. Questions answered!
i did not know that! thanks for showing me that...
new to lathe...great video....thanks
Great lesson, that was the hardest thing to learn back in my youth.
Nice Video. I learned the hard way.
Great video, just like Monarch to think ahead. Makes me resolve to put a DRO on the y axis pronto. Have one on x axis.
Thank you much appreciated brilliant explaination of using the manual lathe's dial ,I am new to lathe my retirement toy .Excellent ,I have been taught ,great Teaching..
very usefull vid Keith
You and Adam are great teachers Kieth.
Very Good!
Thank you sir
Good stuff Keith!
ATB, Robin
First thanks for all your great vids Kieth
good info, thankfully both of my lathes read the same
Mahaloz, very helpful. 😊
Nice topic! I was wondering about that. Great little tip for us intermediate level lathe operators. Thanks!
Wouldn't it been better to change the gear instead of the dial. Just wondering. I'm a couch machinist that likes to watch things made.
@@tomscorner3838that would be pretty difficult to change either. Especially on an older machine. It's just a matter of learning how your dials work. The cross slide has a big acme lead screw and nut. I wouldn't mess around with it unless it had excessive backlash or wear. But you could do it. A lathe can make a lathe.
On the two manual lathes that I owned the cross slide dial gave dia. reduction, the compound gave the cut. On lathe was made in Taiwan the other in Brazil.
Thanks!!!
Thanks for a very good video I never think a bout that and i cod not understand way my work is to small But now I now Tanks for this tip's
Channeling your inner Joe Pie :) Great Video, Keith!
Nice explanation Keith; one more thing to point out is to not assume that the cross slide and compound dials read the same. On my HLV-H at work, the cross slide is diameter reading and the compound is direct reading
Exactly...that's all i was trying to say there's so much out there man and then remembering everything. I can get by i don't need to work for someone or go to school unless i want to take some trade specific class or something then that would be mostly just to get more involved with the other craftsmen in the trade. Besides all the mics and gages I've had to run behind, set up, calibrate....i know where to get the real information that i can trust. I just need to hit the frickin lottery i guess. Yeah, u got some real nice equipment too. Most of y'all do.... I've ran some of those manual lathes, I worked on heavy equipment on and off too.... but, like i said once before. A lot of these guys out here running things (definitely not going to have a channel) don't really care about what they are doing.... you would be real surprised just who out of a bunch of people would actually be worth putting time into training or whatever. A lot of them good workers, head of the pack types, but, again can't say one good thing about anyone and i mean anyone.... u guys wouldn't believe ne if i told y'all. If someone uses an opportunity to shine when someone else is being played or needs helping makes them incompetent.
Hi Keith. One of the operations that I find trickier than most is turning a part to an exact length. Any tips or tricks on that would be most welcome!
Great video, thanks for explaining the difference between direct and indirect reading dials on a lathe.
Hey Ruker
More machine operation fundamentals videos please...
U JUST ANSWERED A QUESTION I HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT A FEW TIMES
In my experience it has more to do with country of origin. However metric dials are usually graduated in 0.02mm steps. There is also the bastard mid imperial/metric conversion lathes out there with things like 6mm pitch cross slides {or multiples of} when a true metric lathe will use a 5mm pitch {or multiples of}. A tool room lathe will normally have a diameter graduation where a general lathe will have a direct dial in the old stuff. I cant remember a modern commercial machine that didn't use a diameter dial though. I did use a Russian borer once that was very unusual, apart from the head being on the operators right hand side everything except for the quill on the rotating axis was in diameter. It took me a long time to get used to it.
keith i see you stayed away from the compound feed. i was taught many years ago to use the compound feed set it at 60 degrees it will then read diameter reductions and you can use the cross slide as a zero return point if you meed to back out of the cut, similar to threading.. most guys think you need to leave the compound set to 29 degrees for threading. i do a lot more turning than threading and don't find it a problem to swing the compound to thread. there is also that trick of setting the compound to i believe 5 or 6 degrees , the diameter reduction is then theoretically in tenths.good video.
Good to know, that might come in quite handy. I just wonder if the compund is calibrated that way on all lathes, or if others just measure the "travel distance" or double of that as well.
I was chatting to the owner of a lathe company about this and he said the convention is (but not always observed) Imp lathes are direct reading but Metric are diameter reduction. But as exceptions do exist, as you say check before use.
m g I suppose it could depend on where the lathe was made,it was an English manufacturer who said it, but then across the pond metric is a bit of a novelty. As i said best to check before use.
@@mmm365
I have never seen a metric lathe with direct reading. Colchester, Victor, Emco, TOS e.g. all with diameter reduction.
I think derect reading is a US thing
I have a Boxford AUD which has metric dials. I understand it is a "modified" Southbend and reads the amount of feed in
One to one or two to one . We had both in the Navy . It can bite you quick if not paying attention.
My graziano has dual reading dials, but is an imperial lathe. Its crosslide dial reads in thousandths off diameter. The advantage in this system is your dial readings are inherently twice as precise.
Thanks Keith that was interesting, especially as after 3 years of following your channel, I am now think about buying a small Proxxon lathe.... hmm... better make sure it comes in metric.
@andy withers, I've got a small Proxxon Lathe (PD250/E) and AFAIK, they're all metric with no option for imperial measurements. www.proxxon.com/en/micromot/24002.php
The larger PD400 is also metric but can thread imperial. www.proxxon.com/en/micromot/24400.php
HTH, Colin
Colin Creed Tattoo Machines, Thanks for the info. I’d been looking at the PD400 For it’s thread cutting capability.
Thanks for the videos!To add to the confusion, take in consideration of the movement of the compound at an angle feeding in..(:
Yes! That ALWAYS gets me scratching my noggin! 📐🤔
After that, we can move on to setting up compound-sine tables...
Boaring heads are similar. Some read in Radius, and some read in Diameter.
Indeed, on metric lathes both systems are used. Whatever the system is, you quickly get used to it. I think both system are good. It is what it is.
I have seen similar issues with the angle scale on the compound feed. Most that I've seen 0 is parallel with the axis of rotation but see where 0 is parallel with the cross feed.
All metric lathes that I used measured the diameter
Although I worked as a toolmaker for 40 years, my recollection is of using less than six different lathes, plus the Chinese metal lathe I use at the Menz Shed I belong to. They were all metric, and all started out without a DRO, and on every one of them, the cross slide measured the diameter. This was in the UK, and New Zealand since I retired. So I actually found myself getting confused and having to think, about this video, as after many thousands of hours using the machines, it becomes automatic. So for a moment or two, I was almost doubting my memory. It's funny how our minds work. Oh, and it's a bugger getting old. 👴🏻🙁
@@TrevorDennis100
Yep. Getting old sucks! But still better than the other option!
🧙♂️☠
I have seen both. I have seen even a lathe with a bezel showing cut and diameter on two scales next to each other. That was confusing. I have to admit I am not entirely sure if that thing was stock or shop made.
And I remember even one lathe where you could swap out the bezel with the numbers showing either travel on one or diameter on the other. They had a colored ring at the back that was suppposed to show which one was on the machine, as long as some significant amount of the color was visible and not all worn down.
It´s a shame, I cannot remeber what make that uggly beast was. And uggly the thing was, and a beast as well. Just for some reason a litttle short, only about 120 mm lenght over the bed with a 350 mm swing. Looked somewhat out of proportion, stubby and but uggly, but was quite nice to run and would not stop that easily. You would more likely break a tool on it than stall it.
Yeah, been there done that. My first time on a lathe I ruined a part right off. I knew I needed to take a couple thou off and wound up taking four thou off.
Perhaps when you are learning put a DTI at the back and read that instead. It also gets rid of backlash so does not matter if it is direct or indirect in reading
Keith, Great Video! Do you know what the exact terminology is that defines the 2 different scale types? (just subscribed!)
Funny, all the oil field lathes, turret lathes and such that I ran were diametric, what you dial in was the amount taken off the OD / ID. :)
Oh no! Not math! Thanks for the lesson.
I worked in a shop once which had two lathes, one direct and one diameter graduation. Could be tricky when you were jumping from one to the other.
I've noticed on most American made lathes that the cross slide almost always has a 10TPI screw on it so if the dial reads .200 per revolution then its showing the diameter reduction and if it shows .100 per revolution it shows a direct reading
10 tpi or 4 tpi. So Kieth's monarch has 500 lines on the dial.
Thanks Keith. I wonder how many workpieces have been ruined by not understanding this.
I appreciate the video. I just have some questions. Why do the numbers Ascend as you approach the axis??? On the cross feed.
Our Rockwell is weird, it has diameter reduction on both the cross-slide and the compound. I like it for the cross slide, but it's a bit stupid on the compound as rarely is it used at 90 degrees.
I worked in a shop one time where we had some Sarrett shrink rules for foundry pattern work. A couple of times one of these rulers would get used for a non foundry job unknowingly. Well, you can guess the rest. The parts got scrapped and boss cut up the errant rulers. (3/16" shrink/foot) The kid said " Golly, I wondered why that part came out short!"
I have seen the same for lathe dials, and have been guilty of the same. I much prefer the direct read dial - .001" on the dial = .001" on the cross slide movement. I guess I'm set in my ways! (Pardon the pun!).
So, I guess we can start calling you Mr. Pete Jr. Just joking, good video. I've taken too much off before on my Logan because I didn't think before I started the cut.
Boxford metric lathes measure the diameter reduction.
Watch those Abom79 videos and listen to Adam Booth say, "I will take another 1/2 inch (that's 1/4 inch per side)." That's how he reminds viewers (and himself) where to set the lathe.
Ok that was the easy dial. Now how about the compound dial vs diameter or thread depth?
People and sites can't even agree on the definition of direct and indirect. Most call direct reading are the ones when the dialed in number is the amount taken off the diameter. Radius reading is referred to as indirect. Terminology differences aside, the information in the video and what you need to look at when operating the late is good to know.
Weird, maybe is standard for imperial lathes because on all the metric lathes that I know, they mesure diameter.
Great video.
👍
I have not yet seen many lathes, but I think in Europe it is the exact opposite: Most if not all lathes reading in diameter reduction.
Keith, I would love to see a video on how you compensate for play on the slide. I noticed that the slide in this example had no play. It was perfect (as I would've expected). Can you even compensate or you just have to bite the bullet and re-grind everything ?
All manual machines have backlash. You always approach your number from the same direction and it's a non-issue. If you overshoot, you back up a ways, and then go forward to the number.
@@RambozoClown Thank you for that quick reply! I still would like to see how Keith deals with that.
@@linuxaos That's the way everyone deals with it, chances are he does too...
@@linuxaos he deals with it the exact same way everyone does. The way bozo described. (Wait... If his name is bozo, do we trust him?)
@@xenonram The fact that we have someone calling himself "Rambozo Clown" commenting on a very specific engineering problem is a testament to the beauty of the internet. Yes, we have puppy videos by the thousand but dammit, "Rambozo Clown" knows a thing or two about mechanical backlash. Rock on Rambozo!
Most engine lathes are direct read or 2 to one, most turret lathes are .001 of diametre for .001 on the dial or 1 to one.
Keith, was that an option on your particular Monarch to read like that, or were all of that model that way? Thanks.
I can understand the rationale for having the cross slide dial read in diameter reduction (or increase for boring). However, on those machines, how does the dial on the compound read? There, it wouldn't make sense to have the dial indicate two times the slide movement since diameter reduction related to compound movement depends on the angle at which it is set. How does the Monarch's compound dial read?
Harrison lathes (imperial and metric) read diameter.
I made new dials for my lathe I got tired of dividing numbers all the time.
How do you read the indexing guide?
My just acquired lathe dial is diameter reduction. Newbie question. The depth of cut for my lathe than would be twice what the dial indicates??
"PER SIDE" sign on the direct read lathe!
Which "side" of a round piece are we discussing?
@@currentbatches6205 The outside.
@Current batches
Obviously HAS to be the outside. You can't even see the inside. Well, unless you drill a hole in it. Clear as muddy water and twice as tasty.
If all else fails, read the manual.
RTFM as the old internet saying goes. I have no idea what the 'F' stands for. 😉
@@TrevorDennis100 "Forgotten"?
@@moehoward01
Foreign language?
@@stanervin6108 oooooh, yeah
So, Dirent reading Lathes move in .001 per line, taking .002 off of part...and indirect reading Lathes move in .0005 per line, taking .001 off the part?
I ask because Direct reading and indirect readind have always confused me because I don't operate Manual Lathes very often.
I am lucky I am used to Monarchs so my dials read diameter, at least that way it cuts too little instead of taking too much!! :-(