What is the Ecological Impact of Cultivating Non-Native Species
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- Опубліковано 13 чер 2024
- Students of Geoff’s Online Permaculture Design Course have question-and-answer sessions where Geoff fields a number of questions every week and answers them via videos. This question was pulled from the 2021 collection. For more Q&A insights, check out Geoff’s Online Permaculture Design Certificate (PDC) course www.discoverpermaculture.com/.... Or, if you’re not ready to enroll, but prefer to see more, consider taking the free Masterclass for an in-depth dive into all things permaculture www.discoverpermaculture.com/...
Question
What is the actual ecological impact of growing non-indigenous species? Is it actually good for the planet to be growing mangoes, avocados, bananas, and dates in Italy where they do not naturally occur? Many of my ecologist/conservationist friends argue that it is damaging indigenous ecosystems to do so.
Key Takeaways
It’s a long-winded and contentious subject, but a good point to start is reading a book by Fred Pearce, The New Wild: Why Invasive Species Will Be Nature’s Salvation. Weeds and invasive species indicate to us that there is a problem in the local ecology, but they also show us that novel ecosystems are not a negative. We can’t have purist views in which places stay in botanical isolation. The melding and separating of ecosystems has occurred throughout time.
There have been issues on small islands because animals tend to speciate. For example, when islands with flightless birds suddenly get a predator, that’s a big problem. However, continents are usually too biodiverse and stable for this to be a huge problem. We have to have an open mind and not be swayed by sentimentality, something nature doesn’t have. It just looks for systems to become more abundant with no favorites.
For that matter, where do we start the endemic selection?
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About Geoff:
Geoff is a world-renowned permaculture consultant, designer, and teacher that has established demonstration sites that function as education centers in all the world's major climates. Geoff has dedicated his life to spreading permaculture design across the globe and inspiring people to take care of the earth, each other, and to return the surplus.
About Permaculture:
Permaculture integrates land, resources, people and the environment through mutually beneficial synergies - imitating the no waste, closed loop systems seen in diverse natural systems. Permaculture applies holistic solutions that are applicable in rural and urban contexts and at any scale. It is a multidisciplinary toolbox including agriculture, water harvesting and hydrology, energy, natural building, forestry, waste management, animal systems, aquaculture, appropriate technology, economics and community development.
#permaculture #permaculturedesign #whatispermaculture
Good Gravy!! The knowledge that emanates from this guy every time he opens his mouth is just astounding. I never tire of listening to him.
Agree with you 100%
I try to tell people that all the time! The same energy people put into destruction they can put into creation. It all comes down to a personal choice. You're the man Geoff! Continuing to inspire me and blow my mind with your wisdom and insight. Thank you!
Just love how you have interesting answers for interesting questions. Thanks Geoff 💪🏻👍🏼🙏💚
Your videos are awesome 👏
What about your next video it's been a month
LIfe is so interesting if we're curious.
@@jackson8085 right on 🥸🧐
Geoff's point about speciation is well taken. For those who feel strongly about invasive species & have strong preferences for indigenous flora, when restoring ecosystems & their soils, there's no reason to my mind why you can't start off with the non-indigenous species to get the ball rolling & once everything is ticking along nicely, begin reintroduction of native species with the view to the eventual weeding out of the non natives.
I'm taking my cue from what Geoff, Nadia and Co. did in Jordan, beginning with that horrendously spiny tree/palm thingamabob because nothing else would grow in such challenging conditions, but eventually getting rid of it altogether as things progressed - the pioneer species; see Geoff, I was paying attention.😁😋
This is done in eco restorations as much as I know.
Here in the West of Ireland, Rhododendron, Japanese Knotweed and Himalayan Balsam have devastated the natural under-storey, and become a virtual monoculture, with natives like the Holly struggling to compete. Loss of diversity, especially to this level, worries me. Of course, generations of human interference is at the root of this, but it is also impossible to know what the impact will be in ecological time, which is a lot longer than any of our lifetimes. Tom Wessels makes an interesting point about young, ecological interactions versus established ones and how that can go very wrong, as in the near eradication of the American Chestnut due to a fungus imported on Oriental Chestnut. Overall, I feel it is unclear what the long-term implications might be, and probably a bit soon to make any assumption. Let’s see in a millenium or so.
Species that are endemic to the rainforests where Geoff lives have formed trillions of interactions over millions of years. In my view, allowing a few single species like camphor laurels and privet to dominate an area stops natural succession and results in an infinitely less diverse ecosystem. There is nothing wrong with using non-endemic species if they don't have a negative affect on the diversity of the ecosystem. Many non endemic plants may have a positive effect. Also, it is easier to establish natural forests by using invasive species as biomass, but they need to be pruned consistently to allow natural succession to occur.
Long term the invaders usually lose out to taller or longer lives native species. Here in Oregon we get hillsides of scotch broom. The timber companies hate them, but fifty years later you get a deciduous forest there full of natives. The broom likes dry hillsides with crappy soil - the result of logging. It forms a dense ground cover and birds spread native tree and shrub seeds through it. The deciduous trees do well poking up out of their leguminous groundcover. They grow up, the broom gets shaded out.
@@przybyla420 But there are also shade tolerant or tall or climbing invasives that do not lose out over time, what then?
@@przybyla420
Scotch broom grows in nitrogen poor soil, and is allelopathic. One way to deter it is to encourage the growth of alder, which also fixes nitrogen, and swales, bogs etc...
@@owenwoodward4467 Goats. Use goats to eat them and fertilize the soil.
I would factor in other aspects next to biodiversity, when considering the state of ecosystems. It depends from area to area, but it’s not uncommon for natural habitats to lose a bit of biodiversity (at least on paper), if they establish a sustainable equilibrium. Overall agree with your statement, nonetheless.
There's the other side of the question. Which is best? Do you import the crops mentioned in the video's question or do you wherever possible, cultivate them in suitable climates closest to the point of consumption? I'd posit that the growing of avocados, dates etc in Italy is much better than importation from halfway around the world - so long as it's done in a thoughtful manner. You would eliminate most of the greenhouse gas emissions associated with long distance importation & to a degree, it may be possible to adjust/reduce packaging frequently used to maintain freshness, especially plastics.
You would probably also end up with a new cultivar better suited to the climate and the needs of the ecosystem in that area.
@@FebbieG Quite possibly. New Zealand has adopted a number of crops normally associated with other parts of the world. Avocado and Kiwifruit or Chinese Gooseberry as they were originally known as , spring to mind.
Kiwifruit nomenclature is actually just the result of a very successful marketing campaign. I remember David Lange, our Prime Minister of the day, coming on NZ TV and saying that "We are going to change what the world calls Chinese Gooseberry to Kiwifruit," and the rest, as they say, is history. Almost nobody remembers them being called anything else these days. 🥝
Sounds good. Be mindful of plants that spread out easy like rhizomes.
@@jjstormwolf2865 Absolutely. That's why I suggested it should be done in a thoughtful manner.
I think the one part of that question is why avocado (or dates)? What is it that they bring to the culinary table that other Italian foods can't? I'm probably picking on avocado a bit here, but they are an example of a product who's demand has been created over the last 10-15 years. They became fashionable, and I'd go as far as to say that they've been elevated way beyond that which their flavour or taste deserves! They're demand was clearly (initially) created because industry discovered something with cheap labour that was abundant and it developed from there. The avocado suited a mass production, monocrop system that is favourable for large business. The question isn't whether or not you should grow avocado, but whether you are growing a diverse variety of plants and species, and aren't overlooking more logical "local" varieties to satiate an already heavily targeted market. Similarly, broadening the number of varieties of a single fruit or veg (the entire planet seems intent on growing only one species of banana, which seems exceptionally short sighted) for that additional resilience. This is especially the case if you're growing for yourself rather than to sell, as you're more likely to be willing to try different types of food than a larger market of safe consumers.
I think the most useful way of approaching this topic is to think in terms of it as a function. Permaculture design doesn't need to work with a limited pallet but it does need to include indigeneous biodiversity conservation/promotion as one of the functions it aims to achieve. It is also important to have an abundant and diverse mix of native insect food plants in design because that will support an abundant and diverse mix of native plant munching insects. That will year round support an abundant and diverse mix of native insect predators will supress extreme outbreaks of plant munching pests on all plants.
These Q&A's are wonderful, I haven't started my permaculture practice on ground but I get valuable philosophical information from these videos. Thank you from my heart Geoff, these will get more valuable with time.
My contention is that without so many cats around the Northern Rivers Geoff, we'd see more quolls. I've never seen one, though I see wild cats all the time..
I think that ferals are here to stay, we can't eradicate them, but its our job to act as resistance and slow their introduction as much as possible to ease the transition into a novel ecosystem. Especially in a fragile place like Australia.
There is so much value in observing how this conversation evolves and what connections can be found that would also inform decisions and how diverse actions can be,,, by whom and what the impacts can be.......... Now thats adaptive diversity!
I'd argue that the current Australian eco system is fragile if we try to keep it the same. But the future Australian eco system will be better, God willing. Species are only invasive if they are better at surviving. The balance will work out. And God knows best.
@@bushcraftingmuslim it doesn't really work that way.. sometimes 'better at surviving' is temporary because it leads to an imbalance that changes the conditions to something unsurvivable for everything. Australia could easily end up looking like North Africa or the Middle East if ecosystem collapse is allowed to run away here like it was there. Perhaps a desolated landscape is what your god wills, but not mine.
We used to have a massive feral cat problem where we were. My son would go out into the forest with the dogs and a ging and hunt them. Now there are no feral cats here at all any more, but the quolls have moved in! Sometimes I see where they have dragged a mallee fowl carcass up into the fork of a tree, so I know they are there. No other species does this here to small prey such as mallee fowl, so if you see a mallee fowl or rabbit carcass in a tree fork, you have quolls!
You'll probably never see one, as they are nocturnal and quite shy, but they breed quickly, so once you have one, you'll have a good population in no time!
P. S. There are also black panthers in the forest as well, I have personally seen one, and there are rumored to be pumas as well. This is in the Northern Country of Central Victoria, near Wedderburn, Inglewood and St Arnaud. This would be perfect puma/panther habitat, and the abundant kangaroo and swamp wallaby population should keep them well fed. Pumas and panthers will also drag their prey up into tree forks, so if you see a kanga rotting in a tree, you have pumas and/or panthers, and it ain't a quoll! Thylacines don't do this, although they are rumored to be out there as well, alongside the big cats.
Never heard of quolls. Had to look that up. Always like to learn something new.
I can now point to this video when someone gets upset at the support species I have chosen.
assuming you have done the analysis, as all good permaculturists should.
@@CorwynGC yes I live in an extreme environment, with overwhelming animal pressure and fire pressure, there is nothing that can become a nuisance here.
Birds migrate thousands of miles, transporting life in both directions. "Native" identification always relies on an arbitrarily chosen snapshot in time and declaring that moment is the baseline. But as you said, the constant is change.
Yes the constant is change but maybe we should ask: is the a limit in the speed of changes? With the strong climate change and anyway introduced species there is already a really high pressure on the ecosystems to change. If we further increase the pressure could it lead to more extinctions than creations of species?
....and isn’t one aspect of recognizing change in the different cycles of change, how they interact and the timing in which they are observed, by whom and from what perspective....... this is where for instance mathematics embraces complexity and different levels of perspective in its expression of said complexity that also embraces this very insight of diversity and how when different factors are considered and in turn are understood differently. An example verbally expressed might look like “diversity” is the recognition of the multitude of elements or factors in a given “environment.... this element of “complexity” might offer the recognition of what the spaces between what is recognized as “diversity” and how that idea would factor into the whole of an ecosystem as it relates to others and self regulates “over time”....... the “rabbit hole” reveals itself about...... HERE... (grin)
Well, I get your point but it's in fact not arbitrary. Because the introduction of alien species destabilizes the local ecosystem and makes it less favorable for humans and all other animals that depended on that steady state that exists without alien species. A balance needs to be struck between new and old, too much new can tip things over the edge and make a difficult recovery.
It's just like climate change. The idea of climate changing is not really interesting, it is arbitrary too because of course the climate is always changing and always will change. But in our language, we use climate change to describe actually the impact of a quickly shifting climate on human industry and society. Without humanity, the use of labels like climate change, native vs alien, soil erosion, etc. is all arbitrary and useless, as it all begins with impact on humanity and similar animals. Does that make sense?
Great topic, very well presented, thank Geoff.
Thank you for this, great question answered. This is some much needed optimism.
Nature coupled with true human intelligence can achieve a beautiful world we all deserve.
Great argument in a topic that comes up often in California circles.
Oh my, Geoff is on fire! This man should be talking in front of the UN assembly every week. Keep it up and thanks for sharing!
I am so glad to hear you say this!
This is a Master Class of species from a Master Mind.
Thanks for well thought out response Geoff! I see no issues growing non native citrus in Canada, but What about invasive species such as zebra mussels that decimate lake ecology? What about knapweed that outcompetes native grasses and reduces animal forage? I worry about these noxious plants, but godspeed to all of the aggressive mint plants and strawberries in the yard!!
Also plants like water hyacinth that take over whole lakes in warmer climates and destroy the whole eco system. I think there is difference between a non native plant vs an invasive species that are proven to harm the local eco system.
Fred Pearce’s contention (in the book that Geoff references in the video) is that it is generally not the invasive species that decimate native ecologies, rather it is human disturbance that damages the native ecology to the point only one specialised species, usually an exotic, can thrive in that environment, it is then this one hardy species that gets blamed for the damage caused by industry or monoculture-farming. In fact, if you wait long enough then it will transpire that those hated invasives actually rehabilitate the land that was so damaged by humans.
@@AskAkseli that is definitely an interesting perspective
@@AskAkseli well put. This book is a must read. Going to find it ASAP!
At the lake near me there is too much blue-green algae suffocating the small minnows which is the foundation spices. The mercury mining decades ago caused the algae which is just cleaning up the mess humans left behind
This is fascinating! I love the idea of looking deeper into the web of life! 💚🌱 🐝
I'm so glad you are talking about this Geoff. Your videos are brilliant.
Greetings from Colombia/El inmigrante venezolano escritor/writer 🌎
Catastrophes haven’t been just on islands. Many native species of trees in North America have been decimated by imported disease and pests. And importantly, native bugs won’t eat nonnative plants. Populations of native bugs and birds are dropping rapidly because of the removal of native plants.
Thank you for pointing this out!
One thing to add: saying that planting avocado trees is better than nativ crop trees in Italy is not the best example. Usually when you think about this question you have a monoculture of this specie. In that case a monoculture of avocado or a native tree doesn't change much to the habitat that native animals have. Monocultures are always bad. But in our case of permaculture we have diversity. In this case its fine to add some non native trees if there are already some native ones. If there is a good amount of native plants the environment can adapt easily.
1. A huge number of bugs eat alien plants.
2. A small proportion of bugs are herbivores of a specific plant. Lots are predatory or generalist herbivores.
3. Native species decline isn’t necessarily caused by non native introductions. It can just be correlated.
@@tecmow4399 don’t spread misinformation.
@@ThreeRunHomer it’s not misinformation just because it refutes your world view. Your claim that native bugs don’t use native plants is demonstrably untrue.
@@tecmow4399 you can try to spin replacement of native plants with nonnative plants as a good thing for the ecosystem, but no educated person is going to believe it.
Good food for thought, Geoff. We transplant species at an almost infinite higher rate today as has ever happened before. Sometimes with positive effects, other times not so much. As permaculturists we need to keep our minds, but also our eyes open to what’s happening around us.
Every word adds up to a complete answer, of how to heal the damage we have done. Thank you for your work, your 'Art' and above all; your message. So positive. Peace Sir, m.
Great video. Thanks for mentioning Biogeography. Its an awesome subject.
LOVE the speciation stories😍😍 so fascinating!
Absolutely fascinating stuff. Thanks, my eyes are opening more and more.
That was beautifully done, Geoff. Bravo!!!!! ❄🌥🌬🏞
Continents drift apart over a long period of time allowing wildlife to adapt. Drift wood with seeds and animals can hardly be compared to ship loads of invasive speceis answering to human trends. In my humble opinion there is room for both novel ecosystems and for actively supporting indigenous species of a location in order to support local, specializing wildlife. There should be both of these systems.
I'm loving this series of videos
"...should we ban floating wood...?", "...do bumble bees dig holes, no they don't..." LOL. Perhaps you don't mean to be funny, but you are. Thanks Geoff. I say grow what you want, nature will find a way to balance out everything.
That was great, and I'm including the facts about ' orange ' carrots. I now have an interesting tidbit of news to share. I can't thank you enough for sharing your knowledge..
I really loved this speach.
Sending you all the love from Sicily.
Thanks for your great insight Geoff! Lots of food for thought with a unique perspective on the potential power of permaculture 😊
Thankyou for explaining things so well, I got so excited about the Darwin theory how he worked out how the bumble bees found their homes... never knew where a bumble be lived.. and that facinates me... Im always looking for new content from you, just going through the Jordon stuff at the moment...thankyou for sharing your passion and knowledge..
Really interesting stuff, thanks Geoff 😁
Great! So full of new perspectives!
I went to a native plant society meet-up once in my local area, the people there are fanatics, they're like religious-extremists, but with plants. I include loads of native plants in my food forest but I could never feed myself on a native-only habitat. Other than that there are ways to manage invasive species to prevent them from spreading, for example an invasive nitrogen-fixing tree in my area is the ultimate chop and drop plant, it wants to grow here, it requires no care, it grows rapidly, but people look down on you for employing it! It only spready from seeds, so once it blooms I simply chop all the branches off the tree to remove any chance of seeding.
I really got a lot from that answer, thank you very much. Recently I have been interested in landrace gardening and methods to 'plant water' and recharge aquifers (among other things), in preparation to start my own permaculture project and this is likely very obvious, but i want to say a massive thanks because you are an invaluable asset to the whole earth to be putting out informative and inspiring content like this.
The story behind orange carrots is so interesting! Thank you for sharing.
Came across this video after searching for tree options to plant in my area. I see Tipuana tipu, Palo Verde and Mesquite trees and they are all labeled as invasive species. This video was so informative and gave me an additional perspective. Thanks Geoff!
Eye-opening, it really made me think!
You are my hero. This 9 min video will resonate with me for the rest of my life. Thank you.
It is wrong please watch a video explaining the importance of native, coevolved species within an ecosystem and the damage we do by naively introducing plants. Geoff has no qualifications to speak on this topic ua-cam.com/video/hCAvBmY7ZgA/v-deo.html
Wish we had your rain here south Aussie Geoff
Great answer Geoff!
The rain was inspiring, too.
I love the idea that non-native species can be a boon to the local ecosystem. I ALSO live in New England where we used to have 25% of our trees were American Chestnut. One year, a grower brought over 4 Chinese Chestnuts, and the fungus in the soil spread all over New England, killing the native Chestnut. Catastrophic loss. Other trees have filled the now-open niches, but they don't produce the amount & quality of the Chestnuts that have died off.
Hard to balance these impacts
Once heard that that was the assumption, but it us possible the disease was already here. That with the extinction of the passenger pigeon it might have lost its support system that was keeping it viable. The pigeons would travel in huge flocks and drop huge amounts of guano. That lost fertility can be just as reasonable an explanation...
Very interesting! I enjoyed this video, thank you.
Thank you!
Superb answer.
Open mind & Ecological intuition 🌎
Absolutely brilliant ,you are some man for one man , indigenous intelligence 💚🍀
Very unique thinking! Nice new twist on old views!
Context, Context, Context. Thank you Geoff!
I like it...Thanks Geoff🌎
Can we talk about a guy going off on a rant about ecological destruction in a country devastated by drought and forest fires and AS HE'S DOING IT, it begins a torrential rain. POWERFUL. Talk about a man worth following his lead...
No more Kazakhstan apples then.
Cats to bees: that's beautiful!
When I purchased the home I live in now, newly built in a community where I have very little to say about the treatment of landscaping outdoors. There was and still is a diversity of life surrounding, however, they spray and I assume the smaller creatures then seek refuge indoors if they can make it there? I noticed that one of the spiders (Wolf) is brown with other accenting coloration, but the ones that have found their way into my home are the same light color of my walls in the home which I've never seen outdoors.
That’s a great question and I love the answer. 100% in agreement.
It's patently false misinformation that Geoff is spreading. Invasive species are incredibly harmful.
Johannesburg - South Africa. Worlds biggest inland "man-made" Forest. Was above "tree-line" - was Grassland - only small scrubby trees here on Highveld when early settlers arrived. Gold Rush - late 1800's. Vast majority of trees in Johannesburg (Gauteng) today are EXOTIC Species
Excellence in permaculture, Excellence in teaching!
Thank You for this video! I agree - use whatever will grow to get the system started. I mean we're talking about deserts and wastelands. Get it green and then go ahead and take it back in history what a wonderful problem to have that you need to chop and drop undesirable plants eventually.
How great would it have been if my biology professors in college were like you, Sir Lawton.
Thing is, if you garden, you are cultivating non indigenous species.
You don't have to. Native gardens are the best, and the most diverse because they actually support wildlife.
@@owenwoodward4467 Best by what measure? Fertility, diversity, "ecological benefit". Just by pure semantics, wouldn't they be more diverse if non-native species were included. If an invasive species can fill a beneficial role that none of the indigeneous plants can support, why not integrate it (minding that it does not overwhelm a system)
Fantastic!
Thanks for explaining this. I'm all for what my bees want and there are some non natives that they like.
I had created a novel ecosystem food forest following the teaching of yourself and other teachers of permaculture and it has many imported species, but I also dot it with as many indigenous wildflowers and shrubs (the pea family are most prized) as I can and I compliment it with a pollinator garden with mostly indigenous plants. It buzzes with insect activity like you cannot believe, many are endangered species. I enjoy both worlds.
Thank you- much is said about only growing natives
(By morons.)
I grow Opuntia ficus indica on my farm. The soil beneath my prickly pear plants is richer and darker than the surrounding soil. Even more "wild type" prickly pear species such as wheel cacti and beaver tails have this effect. Grass grows greener and more abundantly underneath these plants. I have heard of farmers shredding prickly pear pads and putting them down fruit tree holes before planting a fruit tree there, and they are also an excellent "guardian species" for newly planted fruit trees as well. Everything behaves more carefully around them, except that goats love them and will demolish them in short order and horses and other livestock will eat the young pads.
This is an example of how an "invasive species" can be a useful member of the ecological community. My suggestion for anyone out there who has a massive Opuntia "problem" on their land is to become a goat farmer. Within a few years, you'll have fewer or no prickly pears and the most beautiful fertile soil that you could possibly imagine! Either that or farm cochineal beetles. You'd be surprised at the price that these bugs fetch on the open market...
Adaptive Diversity...Nice 🌎
God made a lot of beautiful diversity . Only God could create such amazing harmony in nature. Thanks be to God for his promises.
As Bill Mollison said, we are all native to Earth. But he also said that we have a responsibility to conservation, so we don't lose diversity. Palm oil plantation monocultures in the rainforest is disaterous to species diversity, and snubs the "care of earth" ethic of permaculture. So I would argue that any time a "non-native" species harms species diversity, or creates a monoculture, that is when we should reign things in. We have a responsibility to preserve species, aka care of earth.
Reality is, if humans want to keep living in Australia, we have to eat non-native foods. The native crops that kept the aboriginals alive are largely extinct now because of white man, so it would be difficult to maintain a balanced diet on native foods. Especially in southern Australia. I would also argue that aboriginals brought crops with them wherever they travelled (such as when the land masses were connected, or closer together). So the native plants that native Australians grew might not have all been "native", in the strictest sense of the word. It comes down to where you draw your arbitrary line.
As with all things in Permaculture, it's about balance, and ethical practice.
This guy always makes me feel hopeful. Sometimes “foreign” species can have a negative impact, but not always. It really depends on the context and specifics.
One of my favorite examples of permaculture enriching ecosystems is the wild parrots in California, they are thriving off our exotic fruit trees in plants!
I think he is missing point. With extinction of flora and funa at crisis point, we need to think how we can co exist with indegenous land. We need to talk how minimum damage we would cause. He need to talk about how minimum damage he can cause with his agricultural system. Science proved indigenous plants in farm land help more production. Because the more land for indigenous flora and fauna.
2:50 I clearly see what you mean, but the goal is not to import invasive and destructive rats in the first place
This is some great food for thought but I didn't hear him address the issue of invasive species driving down overall biodiversity. For example, I live in the PNW where English ivy and Himalayan blackberry are everywhere. They overtake entire hillsides at which point it seems like nothing else can grow there, native or not. What are we supposed to do in that scenario?
Very nice🌎...I agree...some trees no natives bring more resilience...and other ecological value/Thanks 🌎
My favorite quote of yours is "we as a species can be as good for the planet as we have been bad for it" or something to that effect. I mention that first because I'll now point out that Humans are the number one non-indiginous species, and we need to take with us the food plants that we thrive on. It doesn't get any simpler than that. Come to think of it, we are all native to planet earth, so it's all good~
Oh good, you said it at the end even~ i'm wrestling with the fact that heirlooms are completely inbred plants, and hybrids are crosses of inbred plants, and that any move towards resilience from diversity is unceremoniously shot down by what is commonly taught to gardeners. There are a few who understand, and I didn't know how bad it has gotten until now, that it's an extreme crisis in the biodiversity of every species that humans cultivate. (and I personally take the step forward to create this much needed diversity, even if I'm not in much of a position to do so, it must be done to save the planet).
I once grew a eucalyptus tree in England. Bought from the garden centre. It grew 20 foot in only 3 years. I shat myself how much it was taking over so I chopped it down. They should stay in Australia.
I sure wish there was speciation for Japanese beetle predators….
Open Mentality👍☘️👍
Love all the information. But my question is, what about kudzoo? I live in America (Alabama) and kudzoo tries to take over everything.
Fantastic video and examples! I have a related question - is it more damaging for the environment to ship fresh (green!) bananas from other side of the world or plant a banana tree in my garden which doesn't belong in this specific ecosystem?
Is that a joke? In terms of fuel emissions to bananas yielded it may be better to buy, depending where you are (because you’ll never get a single banana).
Invasives are devastating no doubt. Look at the American Chestnut 🌰. Some invasives are worse than others, though.
@@inharmonywithearth9982 just a blip when you think that so much of the root stock is still alive
I speculate that the rapid speciation observed in some of the finches which Darwin formerly studied is in some way due to genetic memory/the 'junk' DNA which can store old copies or fragments of genes in our evolutionary history. If so then preserving genetic diversity is an important goal itself to ensure rapid speciation and protecting native species who are particularly vulnerable is important.
Overall you're correct though, the baseline for 'native' is rather arbitrary.
phuk yeh Jeff. been saying this since i was a kid growing up in phx,az
There is a list of plants that are prohibited around here. One of that list is claimed to grow on soil where *nothing else* will grow. I stared at the entry for a long time, trying to understand people.
What plant? What soil?
I am from the northern part of Somalia in an area that receives around 200mm of rainfall a year, the ground is hard clay with no topsoil or ground cover and has a problem of overgrazing due too large hurts of goat sheep and camel. One of the most abundant resources that I have access to is goat and sheep menu, therefore can I use menu as a match to cover the ground?
Thanks
Hair & offal & feces, yes
@@reesekolcow6136 what are you talking about?
@@garanwaa7768 can’t you use the byproducts of the animals in a lasagna style mulch? They have a video on this channel of starting a garden in the desert?
Should we ban the floating of wood? 🤣🤣
Cracked me up there man. Great info here, the war on invasives (i think is the title) is on my short list of things to read.
And swallows. The African swallow will carry a coconut recall.
@@przybyla420 Oh yea an African swallow maybe, but not a European swallow is my point.
i would love to hear geoff's opinion on the situation in hawaii. we're having so many of our native species go extinct because of the constant importation of invasives. the situation is quite dire, and we would loose so many of our native species if we didnt intervene at all. ive seen single plant species out compete entire native forests when left unchecked, including plenty of endangered species. mosquitoes, cats, dogs, and rats are killing many of our native birds. invasive amphibians and reptiles are killing off our native insects.
So many of the species here in Brazil actually come from Asia, especially India.
Purple food is trendy... ;)
Oh and at the end there I love it it is good news that we caused this desertification because it means that we can fix it.
Hi Geoff,
I am very much inclined to start a food forest in New Brunswick, Canada after watching your video.
I want to know if the idea of food forest would be viable especially in harsh winters of Canada. If no, then what could be a potentially good idea.
Regards
I'd like to hear what geoff has to say too but you should totally check out canadian permaculture legacy on yt, he's near toronto in zone 5
It is, just don’t make it a thicket it is a nightmare to prune, harvest in short do anything. There is something to be said for having like near like.
@@przybyla420 thanks mate.
I am ignorant of the complete impact. So I abandoned eradication approaches of pest management
I also look at managing invasives using sort of bonsai approach when shaping terrain.
Cool =)
Thanks so much! Very interesting.
Unrelated question. Is the word “permaculture” trademarked currently or will it be in the future?
Is there a push in some way to own that word, or are we all in the community allowed to use that word freely?
@@kikikut22 the reason I ask is because in the past, according to the internet, Bill Mollison tried to trademark the word but was turned down. Or something along these lines.
Not sure how true the article was, but it had me thinking about the legal ramifications a company would find themselves in if the word suddenly was owned by someone.
Here’s a thread discussing it: permies.com/t/92441/word-Permaculture
I was hoping Geoff could offer some clarity.
If you run a permaculture business, it is expected that the business owner/manager/etc is educated in permaculture. Say you practice permaculture, and you should be guided by the permaculture principles and ethics. That is what Bill Mollison asks of us in his Designer's Manual (paraphrasing).
@@belindaroadley 100% agree. My question is more related to the legality of using the word and issues that could arise from using the word in a business name or and professional literature.
This is alarming to me because the word is a “made up” word and therefore can potentially be trademarked and protected, causing everyone in the community to be in breech of the law. whoever successfully trade marks it could potentially require everyone who is currently using the word to pay a fee for use.
After doing some research I actually found a company in the US who put in a trademark request for the word this year (2021). I hope they get denied, but if they don’t it could be financially devastating.
Here’s an example of the reverse but nevertheless valuable info. Do you know The sriracha hot sauce with the rooster? Well, the word sriracha cannot be trademarked because it is a generic term for hot sauce and therefore not unique and could not be owned. This caused many other companies the ability to make rip-offs and no one could stop them.
As I mentioned the is the reverse scenario but imagine if permaculture as a word gets trademarked and we are all in a legal bind because the word became owned by an individual.
I dunno it alarmed me
@@11219tt They'll keep getting knocked back. You can't retroactively trademark a word already in global circulation. There's no way you could hope to protect a trademark that way, which is one of the requirements of having a trademark. It'd be like Disney trying to trademark the name Rapunzel. Made up word, massive conglomerate, still not going to happen.
People can trademark a name that includes permaculture (eg Belinda's Awesome Permaculture Business), but not just permaculture. Disney trademarked Mickey Mouse, but not Mickey or mouse. :)
@@belindaroadley let’s hope :) That was sort of my understanding as well.
Here is the link to the US PTO application.
uspto.report/TM/90437637
I’m thinking it’s more the the phrase including the comma and font not just the word permaculture
love love love