Another excellent question, yes in fact you can mix dyes and stains provided they have the same base, ie water based or petroleum based. It often doesn't work out that well because the stain tends to eliminate the value of the dye, but in the right combinations, and colors it could be quite effective. Thanks for posting this . Colin
Hi Ian, very good question. In your case a stain is best because your table is going to be outside and subjected to a lot of sunlight over the years. Stains hold up much better for outdoor applications. The only other thing to watch is if you are using Cedar wood, the oils in cedar are such that practically nothing sticks to it long term.
I have worked with wood for a long time and of coarse purchase stains at the regular places like Lowe's od Home Depot or Ganal Lumber. I never new that there really was a dye. I always assumed that when someone said dye they meant stain. Kind of like for a vehicle a goose neck versus a water outlet. Both can be a thermostat housing. I have learned a few tricks over the years but this simple coloring application may just solve some of the train wrecks I have had trying to get that perfect finish I hoped for but never got exactly what I wanted. Thank you. I did notice a little mixing up of stain / dye bit you had my attention and with the show and tell, no problem. So thank you very much and I have some projects coming up that I will be trying dye on. Tim
funny thing, where i'm from a goose neck is only a type of trailer hitch that sits directly above the rear axle. below is a link to a manufacturer who branded themselves after the type of trailer they manufacture. www.gooseneck.net/
Thanks for commenting, Yes, you are correct that vinegar and steel wool would be a dye, vanish on the other hand is a clear coat topical finish. So dye soaks into the wood, vanish lays on top the wood. Colin
Hi Tom, thanks for the question. It really depends on the project and the wood I am using and the look I want. If I want something a of a gloss, I will often use Shellac, if I am looking for more matte looking I might use Tung Oil or my favorite finish Osmo. Those are my preferences, other people might use varnish or lacquer. I just like finishes that are a bit more enviro friendly. Hope this helps Colin
Well, dyes are just one alternative, some stains work better on some woods, and it depends on the look you want too. Great question about what woods do not work, and yes, some of the very hard hardwoods seem to take dyes less willingly. Pine is one of the woods that is easier to stain as a comparison. Thanks for commenting ... great to have you with us Colin
That's a great question, I have not done it but apparently you can mix dyes with alcohol. The advantage would be that this mixture would not raise the grain. If I were to do do it, I think I would try a small amount of 60% alcohol. As for using these dyes outdoors, the answer there would be generally, no, these organic dyes do not hold up as well under UV light from the sun, so you would probably have to re-stain every few years. Thanks for the question, great to have you with us. Colin
These dyes were from Lee Valley Tools, are sold under their own brand name, but the dyes are made in USA. The brown dye says is Aniline Wood Stain, water soluble power, Honeytone Amber. The ebony dye was also from Lee Valley (and is probably the best ebonized treatment I have used so far, I was very happy with it). Hope this helps Colin
You are right about dyes not being as color fast as stains, however this really means for things like out-door furniture, fences, house siding etc. Unless you will be playing outside in the sun, all day every day, you are fine using dyes (see Stewmac). On top of the dye, traditionally, laquer was used, and Stewmac sell that too, in a spray cans, very convenient. I personally would use Osmo, harder to find eco friendly, great wearing and easy to apply. Would LOVE to see pics of your banjo
That's an excellent question, and I didn't mention it in the video. You could apply a dye over top of a stain but it will likely have little to now effect. You would need to sand most or all of the stain off, then dye the wood before you would get the desired affect. You could however, apply stain over top of a dye. Thanks for posting :) Colin
Hi Caco ... hmmm, to be honest, without seeing exactly what your are working with, I'm doing a certain amount of guess work here. Before you do anything, if you buy, try doing just a small, obscure section first. I think I would do light sand with 120 grit for a prep. Both pine and maple will darken slightly with age and stain, even translucent will tend to block some of the grain detail, but it still might look great. I think all you can do is try it. Hope this helps, email if you need more.
Well, it does depend a bit on the wood, so is it an electric or acoustic? and do you know what kind of wood it is? Off hand, my suggestion would be to go with a wood dye, if you go to Stewmac you find that's mostly what they sell for coloring wood. Top coating also depends on guitar, Lacquer is common, but Shellac is also excellent, as is Tung Oil. Let me know more about your project and can advise better can even email me through the main website Colin
Great video! Thanks so much. Glad I found this before I finish my Birdseye drawer fronts. This really clears the air for me on when to use dye vs stain. Thanks again.
wow, birdseye fronts, maybe you will share some pics of your work on woodworkweb so we can all see :) Thanks for posting, looking forward to seeing your project Colin
Hi Bobby, good question. In your case you really will need to dye before gluing, and I would even give it at least one coat of what ever top coat you are going to use as well. This will help protect the dye, and make it easier to clean up glue after too. This method of construction is called pre-finishing and I do use it from time to time. Sometimes it's easier to finish the wood before it is assembled. We would love to see pics when it's done :) Colin
That's a great question, and the answer is hard to define because it varies from wood to wood, and hard woods don't have the same penetration as soft woods. For depth of penetration, I actually cut into the wood with a sharp chisel and it appears that in the maple I used it was about 1/128 deep. When I did the same with the stain, you could see no real penetration. I would say pine or fir or similar woods would have the best penetration where oaks and maples would have less. Thanks again. Colin
Great question, to be honest, I have not tried alcohol based dyes. I like 2 things about them, they dry fast and they won't raise the grain. What I don't know is how well they penetrate compared to water based. My only suggestion, if possible, would be to try some on a part of your project that is hidden from view to see how it works for you. Would love to hear you you make out, would like to see a pic of the project sometime too. Great to have you with us Colin
Man, you rock! I have learned SO much from you, Mr. Knecht! In addition to being very knowledgeable, and open in sharing that knowledge, you also seem to be a very nice person, and relay information in a personable manner, which makes it much nicer to listen to and easier to get through my thick skull! Lol Thank you! Just so you know, I am not one to comment on UA-cam videos... but I had to offer my gratitude!
Thanks for the video. Just wanted to add that dyes can mixed with water or alcohol (or acetone). The latter come pre-mixed (at least in my experience). You can purchase them at StewMac or any of a number of other places. It's truly a pleasure to finish wood with alcohol-based dye. First, the alcohol flashes off almost instantly, so you can see your work progress without wiping. Second, no grain lift, which saves a lot of sanding, which I hate. Third (using a rag, not a brush) you can really control how much color by rubbing on additional layers. No waiting between coats. The chatoyancy ("sparkly-ness") of the wood is greatly enhanced. It's super easy to do. I recommend anyone doing an indoor wood project give it a try (they are not as color fast as stains). I use it to finish guitars.
Thanks for this comment. I got some "spirit" (alcohol) based stain as recommended to me for a little wooden stool I put together that is currently unfinished. I've only ever put a few drops of the spirit-based alcohol stain onto a scrap piece of wood. It seemed to go on really unevenly and blotchy, fully saturating one area and barely touching another. I'm scared of an uneven finish. I can't find any youtube videos on how to use this dye/stain correctly! Maybe I'll look under "alcohol" instead of "spirit". If you have any tips, I'd really appreciate it. I'm so confused!
Since the dye penetrates so much, does this mean that it is more blotchy? Particularly, will this make a wood more blotchy than before? Also, does it wash out the grain in plywoods more than a stain?
Colin, Thanks very much for making this video. Very informative. A few weeks back I made some homemade dye using black walnut hulls and alcohol. It is still leaching and should be ready in a week or two. It is as dark as ink but translucent as you pointed out as is characteristic of dyes. I've tested it on red oak scraps and the results are terrific. I didn't see any grain lifting and penetration is excellent. It dries really fast so that might explain why no grain distortion as would be the case with water. Do you have any experience with alcohol based dyes? Any drawbacks? I imagine that commercial dry dyes would also mix with alcohol.
Hardnox I do not have any experience with alcohol based dyes, only water based. I did mix a small bath of dry water based dye with alcohol but it would not mix together so you are ahead of me in actually making alcohol based dye .... good for you!!! I am curious, what is the alcohol base you are using? Alcohol base should work just great, as you say, will dry quickly and shouldn't lift the grain. Thanks for the note on this, keep me abreast of what you are doing. Colin
If you're going for an ethanol base you'll have to work faster and more precisely than when you're using water, so water base is just simpler to use (and simpler to fix if you mess up). You won't have to sand much after applying water base dye, a fine paper will do.
Hi Tommy, yes you will get lots of differing opinions, and probably all of them correct. When it comes to finishing there are many, many different ways. Good for you for doing this, it's a great way to get stated. We would love to see some pics when you get it finished :) Colin
Very interesting, I have not even thought of trying it. I can't see why it would not work. Would love to see some pics of your finished work ... and hear more about how you use this. Thanks for commenting Colin
Cringing as I see stain going on BE maple. Nice video. Can you recommend a nice brown dye that I can use for very dark walnut and dilute it for lighter pieces so I do not have to buy a bunch of different browns? I don't do a ton of refinishing, usually just tops or touch-up work. Also, what I do occasionally come across is pieces that are mixtures of pecan and walnut, using pecan for the solid pieces. This is another reason for to adjust my shades. I am just trying to avoid a large investment until I find the right product. BTW, do you mix these with water only? I always thought it was with alcohol.
These powder dyed are brilliant. If you want it to be lighter, you'll just add less to the water. It'll be the same colour but just lighter. I personally recommend them.
In that case I would suggest a Minwax product called Polyshades. It's a one step stain and finish and comes in a variety of colors. Probably available at larger home reno stores like Home Depot, etc. Check that out, I think that will work nicely for you
Thanks for the Video. I have NEVEN ever treated wood anyhow but I like trying to build new things of wood. like a wooden storage or some shelving, etc. I used an oil. For some reason I thought that is a right thing to do. but for now I have no idea what each product does. Oil, Stain, Dye, Finish. I might be mixing stuff left and right but that is what I see on a shelve in Home Depot and I have no idea what I really need. Eventually I just wanted a wood that looks like wood but treated so it does not crack, some termites protection and nice looking. Further I am not planing to paint that. Could you please clarify what is what? any notes will be highly appreciated. Sorry for a nooby question :)
Yes I see, it looks very cool. Any speaker boxes for guitars (or amps) have always been (good quality) plywood, of some sort, but these have all been quite large too like 24"x36"- to 48". There are some challenges in working with natural lumbers in large sizes, but you may be making something quite a bit smaller. My best suggestion would be to write this up in the forums on woodworkweb, there are many others who might have ideas and suggestions that could help, and I will see it there too. Colin
Just watched your video on dye vs stain and learned a LOT. One problem with dyes that I've found is the tendency to get lapping when trying to use dye on a large surface such as a table top. I"ve seen suggestions that using an HVLP gun to spray it works better on large surfaces. Any thoughts?
Great video. It helped me a lot last year when I decided to build a desk! The ebony black dye turned out beautiful. Question though, I am in midst of building an outdoor pergola with (copper) pressure treated wood. Are dyes suitable for this, as well as outdoor? I plan to also seal it with a spar varnish for extra protection, plus I can polish it. I'd love to use this ebony dye again.
Nice comparison video. 10 years later it is a bit late to mention, but as stated dyes are not common to a big box store and I'll use in a pinch food coloring which works well. I've made exotic, in color, stains from both oil & watercolour tube paint and dyes from inks. I've never tried a fabric dye but why not.
@woodworkWeb, I am planning to change color of our yellow/cream color maple cabinets. I would like to see the maple wood grains but would like the color to be in dark brown. Should I use dye or stain? Is it even possible to re-dye ? please advise.
I am living in Malaysia. I want to make a (something of a) cutting board table top island. I am thinking of adding dye, and coffee ), and wood stains and other things for color to some to some cheap 1 by 2's on the on the long end of the green (not the wide end) but the 1" end. Then, I will glue them altogether - hopefully they will be straight! - and sand them down only to a degree that is necessary, hoping the stain will not be removed. Question : What to use? Water based or oil based to get it as deep as possible, knowing i will HAVE to sand it down. What stain or dye or whatever can penetrate enough that I can sand (a little) and still keep the color? Anything I can do to make it absorb deeper? It's HOT here in Malaysia (34°C/93° F) and I assume this will help. Should/could I heat the wood? Any thoughts?
@WoodWorkWeb Hi,I bought a 2nd hand solid hardwood table and chairs,sanded it all down to remove the existing stain (pine) and wanted to do it light oak. I bought Dulux woodstain which is 2 in 1,it has the stain and satin lacquer all in one,i tested a sample on the table top (my kitchen table) and have only given it 1 coat so far,but it did NOT stain very good at all Is this because i bought a 2 in 1 varnish/stain? Is it always better to use dye first then over coat with a protective clear lacquer or varnish later? I just tried another quick coat (2nd coat) on what i already did and it has gone darker already but there are brush marks and where ive overlapped in places it looks light and darker,there seems to be no consistency with it,is it because the paint product is rubbish or is it my technique? Whats your best advice to make an old solid hardwood table look new again and change from pine to light oak and get a finish thats equal everywhere,i.e., no dark or light patches and looks professional? Is the dye and clear lacquer over the top the best method
Hey mate. That looks awsome. Would I be able to polish the wood and seal it after its dyed? Do you know roughly how deep it penetrates a few millimeters? Cheers and Thank you from perth Australia!
From my experience some finished dissolve and mix with dye, at least that’s the situation I had. So then after wet-wiping the surface, the pigment comes off :(
This sounds like an ongoing interesting project. Pre-treating might be a good idea, but you are right that testing is the best way to see how things turn out. Keep in touch, am interested to see who this goes Colin
Hey Mr. Knecht, just lately I have used some black India ink to stain a fret board. What do you think about ink as a dye? Will it adhere to top coats of final finishes? Lacquer? Shellac? Varnish? Danish oil? Have you addressed this in a different video? Thanks! Your video was very good and informative to me!
Thanks for the video! Getting that comparison is really helpful. I'd like to try an aniline dye on pine to achieve a dark finish, since I found it hard to achieve a more uniform dark on pine with an oil-based stain, even with a wood conditioner. Would you say that's the way to go on pine? Or perhaps dye first, then oil-based stain later? Theoretically, I think that could offer an interesting dimensionality and might make it come out more evenly. What do you think? TIA!
great teacher and lesson on dyes vs stain..now i know what i would prefer vs someone telling me what is better..thank you...i cant believe there are 42 dislikes...mmmm
Nice article & presentation of differing processes, Staining & Dyeing. I want to know which process, Stain or Dye, is least likely to run or bleed or leech into an adjoining inlay strip, when clear coated. I am planning to dye some walnut to look like ebony & inlay the finishes strips of it, next to inlay banding of maple. I was also wondering how the stain or dye would effect it's gluing properties.
I have honey/golden oak coloured kitchen cabinets that i want to refinish. Do you recommend a dye or stain? Id like to make them a bit darker, cause i dont like that yellowish tone to them. Do i need to strip all the doors and cabinets down to bare wood, or could i mix dye into a top coat, and just spray the finish with a gun, over my prepped cabinets?
Dyes are nice to work with, but I have never had the opportunity to use them on a wall. Also, I have never seen a white as a dye color, so that could be a challenge too. About the lightest I have seen is like a blonde oak colour, which would be nice on pine, but it's still not a whitish color.
Thank you! You mentioned the use of stains outside on a fence. Is an ebony dye also suitable outside or will it fade a lot? I'm thinking about staining a redwood deck ebony before sealing it.
Hey Colin/WWW Team, Nice posting. Very clear and informative. I just stripped back a cigar box. It was really 'light' so I decided to enhance the grain. I applied Danish Oil (rubbed in for about 1/2 hr), when dry used wet'n'dry 320grit paper 9with the oil again) and rubbed the residue off. I am still not happy with the shade. Can I proceed to add a Dye over the oil, before I spray with Poly? Many thanks, Colum
Hi Colum, all the dyes that I have seen are dissolved in water, so without seeing you project, it sounds like it might not be the best thing to try and put water over oil - but, if you have another piece of wood you can experiment with, or use part of the bottom of the box, that would be the way to go. I don't always follow what "the books say" but in this case, some experimenting might help you out. Unfortunately you don't have a lot of wood to work with in cigar boxes, and they are not the most robust boxes either, so you will want to take some care. Sorry I can't be of more help, would love to hear how this turns out :) Colin
WoodWorkWeb Thanks a million Colin, Yes of course... water on top of oil..not good! I would not be buying a dye to dissolve myself, but a tin of branded dye, so whether they are oil or water based, I know not. Lets presume they are water based. Correct, cigar boxes are not robust at all and I don't have a lot of wood to experiment on. I was stupid and impatient to go ahead and use oil instead of dye first and then oil it, but what's done is done. It is for my first Cigar Box Guitar build. So, in your expert opinion what should I use to get a darker look to the cigar box, while maintaining the slight grain that is there, before I poly it? Is there a darker oil I can apply on top of the Danish oil or how do you suggest I proceed? Any info is greatly appreciated, Kind regards, Colum
Colum Burke Ah ... a cigar box guitar, I love those projects.Well, that dye you could be oil based if it is something you bought in a can. Best way ti=o test it is fill a glass with water, stir up you dye then pour a teaspoon of it on to the glass with water. If it floats, it's oil based, if it appears to mix with the water and if you give it a bit of a stir and it seems to dissolve in the water, it will be water based. If it's oil, you are good to go, if not you will want to find an oil based stain, something like a small can of MinWax stain. They have many to choose from and should be easily available at your closest hardware or home building store. When the stain is dry in 24 hours, it will be ready for the poly :) Colin
With the holidays I finally have time to watch some of your older videos. This one is very interesting. I did not know there was any difference. In fact I never heard the word "dye" before, I think. I don't know if the "dye" is only used in Canada or the US but I think the these to words are very often mixed up. I'm quite sure I have seen some videos on woodworking the last few years in which was used the word "stain" where, according to your "vocabulary" the word "dye" was meant. For example "staining" wood with tea, coffee, etc.
I was just refinishing a little dresser and am very unhappy with the stain I used. I was wondering if applying acetone after would help the stain penetrate better and look more like a dye. I think I'll try it just to see - but I wondered if you have any thoughts about it. I like the colors of the stains, but not the results.
Not sure what you mean?? Brand ? I am using something that Lee Valley sells under their own name, hope that is what you meant, but if not, shoot me another note, Thanks for commenting ... Colin
Can I use the dye first and then layer with a diluted oil-based stain on top? Are there any consequences? I know you shouldn't mix a sealer with a stain, but does it matter with dye and stain?
i have noticed that its not always black and white. For example, rusted iron+vinegar is a dye, but also a stain. More over the wood colorisation caused by chemical reaction/interaction (oxidation) in between the wood and the acid. That is also commonly known, it depends on the type, the hardness, and the age of the wood as well. The rust will stay partly on the surface as well, so its not a dye, not a stain, both a little bit both, or something totally different. However everybody call it stain.
I was wondering about the difference and now I know. Thx! I recently made a 36" US flag using strips of pine and couldn't get the depth of color (Crimson and Navy Blue) I wanted with Minwax tintable stain by leaving it on and wiping off. Extra applications didn't help. I first tried making my own stain and that was washed out also. I thought it was my concoction, but the Minwax was the same. Wood conditioner seemed to make little difference. I looked at dyes, but didn't know enough about them. In the end, I simply used a brush (like painting) to keep thinning out the amount of Minwax stain on the strips until I got the depth and transparency I wanted and then let it dry (even though the can says don't let the excess dry without wiping). After applying a satin finish, the flag came out awesome. I had scorched the wood prior to staining and hand-engraved the stars after. Now a friend wants one! I felt that I wasn't using the stain right, but since you've explained that it's really a surface coating, I'm not so worried anymore! I might try a dye in the future on other woodworking projects and see how that looks
Great answered a lot of my questions I was waiting to hear about topcoats I have the waterbase die I’m thinking of putting a polyurethane over the top once it is dry?or Acrylic.
Thanks for this video! I have used wood dye and absolutely love it! Although I was familiar with many things in the video, I find there are always little gaps in my knowledge to fill. Still learning! Did you use aniline dye? That's the only wood dye I've used and is it one of the better types of dyes for wood? The ebony dye is beautiful!
I'm currently experimenting with concrete dye on maple guitar necks. Haven't sanded or anything so I don't know if there's any penetration or not. Seems kinda chalky but smooth at the same time.
I'm looking to either stain or dye a set of speakers. Thing is,they are Baltic Birch.I'm wanting a deep reddish brown color to them with the grain raised. Is this possible with dye? I'm going to start sanding them soon and will be using a 400 grit. I have also heard of gel stain. From what i have read, Baltic Birch is a pain to stain though. 'm looking for the safest way to acheive this......
Ghostnotes1221 To be honest, I have not stained baltic birch so I have little knowledge of working with it. What I would suggest is that you do some testing with some cut-off pieces scrap pieces first, no matter what you settle on. I would be a shame to use something that you don't like after all that work.
Thanks Colin. As always informative. Never used dyes but can see how much more of the character of the wood comes through. \\\\yes there was a couple of mix ups between the 2 but I understood. After all you are a woodworker not a pro TV presenter. The important thing is you got the message over. Enjoyed it.
Hello again , I am getting ready to Use the water based wood dye on the Curly Maple banjo kit I told you about and experiment with mixing colors, Red, Yellow & Brown, to get the right shade. Can you approximate how much of a Mix, Pint? or more , I need just to do the neck & rim of this banjo? and help me determine how much powder / water to mix to reach that goal? Thanks so much. DanO'
MrDanoconnor Hmm you won't need much, a pint would be plenty, but even if you mix the whole thing, the water dyes keep really well (unless you are limited to for room). When it comes to mixing, start with the lightest color and add a just bit of red to it, like maybe a teaspoon, then same with the brown. You will be surprised how little dark it takes to start changing the color significantly. Carry on Dano, ... I am waiting for pics :)
I use veneer to make finger boards (miniature skateboards) and I just bought some dye transtint dye. Any tips? Leave the veneer in a jar and leave it in the sun for a while so it can get it’s true colors? I’m using maple veneer
Would it be good 2 Stain & Then dye it after the stain dries/ Not 2 Sure how it would look as I haven't done Woodworking in along time & I'm now interested in building my own Furniture & Wanted 2 Know if I can stain & Then add: The Dye after what should I do can I do both or just stick 2 Stain or Dye.What is best?
I use gel stains applied to wood around vinyl stencils, I get nice clean lines at the edges. Is this possible to do with a dye due to it soaking in to the wood? Would love to find a good water based finish since my shop is heated with a woodstove.
It's really difficult to answer a question like this because it leads to many more questions before a recommendation can be made, like what kind of wood is it? what kind of a look are you striving for? Is this a valuable heirloom piece? do you want Gloss, Matte, Satin? Lot of different variable and many different combinations of finishes to choose from. My best suggestion would be to post something on the Forums at woodworkweb and I am out of room here already, sorry.
This is an excellent video. Non-Grain-Raising (NGR) dyes are available which help you to avoid the chief disadvantage of dyes. I like the Mohawk brand myself. This product is sometimes packaged as Behlen's Solar-lux. The dye works "like a charm" although it dries quite quickly so lap marks can be a problem in hot weather. Apply it in cool of the evening or use a retarder.
Can you add dye to the stain itself to accomplish desired color. I have oak stain that I am applying to a small section of a burned out floor. After the first coat the area still looks burned out. Adding another coat should make the wood darker, however the stain is so light that I am considering adding just a little dye instead of keep re-coating. Of course I plan to sample on a disposable piece first... Would you suggest this? What dye is safe to add to stain? Many thanks!
+Don Powell You can add dye to stain (in many cases) but only if mediums are the same, oil to oil or water to water cannot mix water based dye to oil based stain. One of the issues with stain, is that because it is ground up rock, it typically lays on top of the wood. Adding dye on top of the dried stain might not be too effective. To be honest I never tried that.
I never new there were wood dyes. You said stains last outside forever. What about dyes? Do you have to seal the wood if it is going outside, for example a large planter? Thank you!!!
How does the dye hold up to cleaners? I came about this video while looking for information on dying gun grips. The grips would come in contact with solvent cleaners while cleaning the gun. Will the solvents take the dyes off?
If you don’t want to raise the grain you can use alcohol to desolve your dyes instead of water, which has very little affect on the wood, even helps penetration.
Sam Torabi Hi Sam, I get mine from Lee Valley, they sell the water soluble version and have a good selection. There are alcohol soluble versions as well but I have not had a chance to try them.
A couple of things you didn't mention are that there are also alcohol based stains that will help limit how much the grain is raised when applied. Also, a downside to dies that was kind of implied at the beginning is that they're not colorfast and will fade over time.
Brian Ekins Hi Brian, I have search for hours looking for burnt umber dye I can’t find it anywhere. Rockler had a few others, eBay was a no go. Can you tell me where I might locate some? Many thanks, Todd
You said the con of using dye was that it was water based and lifted the grain. Please keep in mind that you can use other carriers such as alcohols or lacquer thinner. I prefer Sherwin Williams haps compliant dye stain reducer. None of these will raise the grain and they dry much faster than water. I have used Lenmar and Sherwin Williams brand Sherwood dyes with the dye stain reducer and it worked well with no raised grain.
Carmen Serrett Good question Carmen, I have had some mixed for 2+ years and it's fine, I don't even have to stir it. I do not recall seeing anything that talks about a shelf life for these aniline dyes, but experience tells me ... should be good for a few years anyway.
abd529 No ,water based stains are basically stains (like the oil ones) but to be used with water based polyurethane ,I’m talking about Minwax product ,if you use the rust oleum or the varetine stains ,you can use oil poly or water based poly
Considering purchasing a beach house where the the entire place is paneled with what appears to be pine or maple veneer paneling that is NOT sealed, the good news. It's smooth to the touch but not laminated. Its aged a medium oak color bordering on the blonde/red side. I'd like to see the knots come through and not lose the variation in grain colors, but go either white or off white. Should I be using a prep to make sure to get the top layer clean, and would dye be a better choice?
Another con for me using dyes is that I would have to store them in the house when the shop heat is off. What is the shelf life on dyes? Do you really need to wipe off the dye? What about clear coats on top of the dye? Will glue stick to dyed or partially dyed wood? Thanks for the info! I will have to try a dye project soon. I am visualizing a project with multiple colors.
Hi. You may have answered this previously but I stripped the paint (my mistake) and original finish (a dark brown stain on light wood, for some reason) off a dresser that I want to use as a buffet. Many hours of work! How do you "finish" a piece that you dye? Would an oil work or do you need a sealer? Thanks. ; )
abiquafarmgirl To be honest, it can be a bit tricky trying to give finishing advice on-line. I am assuming the table and chairs are not new? and already have a finish on them? The other thing I can tell you is probably this set is not real old, like not antique, and the reason I suspect that it is newer, is oak gets darker as it ages, so in time, it will get darker and darker. You probably will have a couple of choices ... 1 - strip everything down and start from scratch (this is LOT of work0 or 2 - find something that you can coat over top of what is there and depending on where you live, there can be a variety of choices. What I would do in your situation is go to an established paint of finish store and talk to them about what they might have. They will be able to tell you how to test what you have to see what kind of a finish you already have, then they can recommend something that can go over top of what you have. Sorry ... not an easy answer for you, but finishing is one of those tricky areas ... all the best with your project.
I have a cushman rock maple table i have sanded down to 120 grit and was wanting to do a dark stain but now I'm curious if i should be using a dye? I also have a pine stool in the same room and would like them to match. Is it going to make a big difference on colors if i use the same dye on the maple and the pine?
***** I could be Derek, in this case you might be better off with a stain because stains tend more to lie on top the wood so you would have a better chance of matching them. What I would do i find the color you want then try a bit of the stain on the underside of the stool seat (assuming it is bare wood, you should probably sand this a bit to make sure) and you could do the same on the underside of the table. This is one way of testing to see how close a match you can get. Hope this helps .... Colin
Okay thank you! That's what I'll do and let you know how it ends up. I've just read how hard it is to stain maple and prevent blotchy results. I was reading into the aniline dyes and was going to attempt that. If I use a stain probably a spray bottle would work best, since the table is quite large?
***** Another option for you would be to call the Minwax people to get their suggestions. You should be able to find their phone number and email on their website, they make the products and have tested them on all sorts of products and I'm sure others have wanted to match colors on 2 different woods so I am sure they would have encountered this question. I would certainly call them, I have talked to them in the past and they are excellent.
Hi, I'm thinking about building a custom speaker cabinet for my guitar and I'm looking for some pointers. The wood would either be birch or maple and I'm looking to get a high gloss translucent black color. If you google "charcoal burst stain" you'll see what I'm going for. Any tips or ideas you could give me would be greatly appreciated.
Its called pigment and all stains have it. Pigments are not all just dirt scooped up. Theyre chemically extracted or made from materials to get uniform colors. All stains will have settling of pigment if they sit. This guy is just dumbing it down for the layman.
Another excellent question, yes in fact you can mix dyes and stains provided they have the same base, ie water based or petroleum based. It often doesn't work out that well because the stain tends to eliminate the value of the dye, but in the right combinations, and colors it could be quite effective.
Thanks for posting this .
Colin
Hi Ian, very good question. In your case a stain is best because your table is going to be outside and subjected to a lot of sunlight over the years. Stains hold up much better for outdoor applications. The only other thing to watch is if you are using Cedar wood, the oils in cedar are such that practically nothing sticks to it long term.
I have worked with wood for a long time and of coarse purchase stains at the regular places like Lowe's od Home Depot or Ganal Lumber. I never new that there really was a dye. I always assumed that when someone said dye they meant stain. Kind of like for a vehicle a goose neck versus a water outlet. Both can be a thermostat housing. I have learned a few tricks over the years but this simple coloring application may just solve some of the train wrecks I have had trying to get that perfect finish I hoped for but never got exactly what I wanted. Thank you. I did notice a little mixing up of stain / dye bit you had my attention and with the show and tell, no problem. So thank you very much and I have some projects coming up that I will be trying dye on. Tim
+tim horton No prob, thank for your comments Tim
funny thing, where i'm from a goose neck is only a type of trailer hitch that sits directly above the rear axle. below is a link to a manufacturer who branded themselves after the type of trailer they manufacture.
www.gooseneck.net/
Very helpful video on the differences between stain and dye - thank you! You're an excellent teacher.
Thanks for commenting, Yes, you are correct that vinegar and steel wool would be a dye, vanish on the other hand is a clear coat topical finish. So dye soaks into the wood, vanish lays on top the wood.
Colin
Hi Tom, thanks for the question. It really depends on the project and the wood I am using and the look I want. If I want something a of a gloss, I will often use Shellac, if I am looking for more matte looking I might use Tung Oil or my favorite finish Osmo. Those are my preferences, other people might use varnish or lacquer. I just like finishes that are a bit more enviro friendly. Hope this helps
Colin
Well, dyes are just one alternative, some stains work better on some woods, and it depends on the look you want too. Great question about what woods do not work, and yes, some of the very hard hardwoods seem to take dyes less willingly. Pine is one of the woods that is easier to stain as a comparison. Thanks for commenting ... great to have you with us
Colin
That's a great question, I have not done it but apparently you can mix dyes with alcohol. The advantage would be that this mixture would not raise the grain. If I were to do do it, I think I would try a small amount of 60% alcohol.
As for using these dyes outdoors, the answer there would be generally, no, these organic dyes do not hold up as well under UV light from the sun, so you would probably have to re-stain every few years.
Thanks for the question, great to have you with us.
Colin
These dyes were from Lee Valley Tools, are sold under their own brand name, but the dyes are made in USA. The brown dye says is Aniline Wood Stain, water soluble power, Honeytone Amber. The ebony dye was also from Lee Valley (and is probably the best ebonized treatment I have used so far, I was very happy with it).
Hope this helps
Colin
You are right about dyes not being as color fast as stains, however this really means for things like out-door furniture, fences, house siding etc. Unless you will be playing outside in the sun, all day every day, you are fine using dyes (see Stewmac). On top of the dye, traditionally, laquer was used, and Stewmac sell that too, in a spray cans, very convenient. I personally would use Osmo, harder to find eco friendly, great wearing and easy to apply. Would LOVE to see pics of your banjo
Thanks for taking the time to comment ... great to have you with us
Colin
That's an excellent question, and I didn't mention it in the video.
You could apply a dye over top of a stain but it will likely have little to now effect. You would need to sand most or all of the stain off, then dye the wood before you would get the desired affect. You could however, apply stain over top of a dye.
Thanks for posting :)
Colin
What is the shelf life if dye? Thanks for the great presentation.
Thanks for commenting, glad these are helpful ... great to have you with us
Colin
Hi Caco ... hmmm, to be honest, without seeing exactly what your are working with, I'm doing a certain amount of guess work here. Before you do anything, if you buy, try doing just a small, obscure section first. I think I would do light sand with 120 grit for a prep. Both pine and maple will darken slightly with age and stain, even translucent will tend to block some of the grain detail, but it still might look great. I think all you can do is try it.
Hope this helps, email if you need more.
Well, it does depend a bit on the wood, so is it an electric or acoustic? and do you know what kind of wood it is?
Off hand, my suggestion would be to go with a wood dye, if you go to Stewmac you find that's mostly what they sell for coloring wood. Top coating also depends on guitar, Lacquer is common, but Shellac is also excellent, as is Tung Oil.
Let me know more about your project and can advise better can even email me through the main website
Colin
Great video! Thanks so much. Glad I found this before I finish my Birdseye drawer fronts. This really clears the air for me on when to use dye vs stain. Thanks again.
wow, birdseye fronts, maybe you will share some pics of your work on woodworkweb so we can all see :)
Thanks for posting, looking forward to seeing your project
Colin
Hi Bobby, good question. In your case you really will need to dye before gluing, and I would even give it at least one coat of what ever top coat you are going to use as well. This will help protect the dye, and make it easier to clean up glue after too. This method of construction is called pre-finishing and I do use it from time to time. Sometimes it's easier to finish the wood before it is assembled.
We would love to see pics when it's done :)
Colin
That's a great question, and the answer is hard to define because it varies from wood to wood, and hard woods don't have the same penetration as soft woods. For depth of penetration, I actually cut into the wood with a sharp chisel and it appears that in the maple I used it was about 1/128 deep. When I did the same with the stain, you could see no real penetration. I would say pine or fir or similar woods would have the best penetration where oaks and maples would have less. Thanks again.
Colin
Found this 9 years later. super useful thanks!
Great question, to be honest, I have not tried alcohol based dyes. I like 2 things about them, they dry fast and they won't raise the grain. What I don't know is how well they penetrate compared to water based. My only suggestion, if possible, would be to try some on a part of your project that is hidden from view to see how it works for you.
Would love to hear you you make out, would like to see a pic of the project sometime too.
Great to have you with us
Colin
Man, you rock! I have learned SO much from you, Mr. Knecht! In addition to being very knowledgeable, and open in sharing that knowledge, you also seem to be a very nice person, and relay information in a personable manner, which makes it much nicer to listen to and easier to get through my thick skull! Lol
Thank you!
Just so you know, I am not one to comment on UA-cam videos... but I had to offer my gratitude!
Thanks for commenting, great to have you with us
Colin
Thanks for the video. Just wanted to add that dyes can mixed with water or alcohol (or acetone). The latter come pre-mixed (at least in my experience). You can purchase them at StewMac or any of a number of other places. It's truly a pleasure to finish wood with alcohol-based dye. First, the alcohol flashes off almost instantly, so you can see your work progress without wiping. Second, no grain lift, which saves a lot of sanding, which I hate. Third (using a rag, not a brush) you can really control how much color by rubbing on additional layers. No waiting between coats. The chatoyancy ("sparkly-ness") of the wood is greatly enhanced. It's super easy to do. I recommend anyone doing an indoor wood project give it a try (they are not as color fast as stains). I use it to finish guitars.
Thanks for this comment. I got some "spirit" (alcohol) based stain as recommended to me for a little wooden stool I put together that is currently unfinished. I've only ever put a few drops of the spirit-based alcohol stain onto a scrap piece of wood. It seemed to go on really unevenly and blotchy, fully saturating one area and barely touching another. I'm scared of an uneven finish. I can't find any youtube videos on how to use this dye/stain correctly! Maybe I'll look under "alcohol" instead of "spirit". If you have any tips, I'd really appreciate it. I'm so confused!
Since the dye penetrates so much, does this mean that it is more blotchy? Particularly, will this make a wood more blotchy than before? Also, does it wash out the grain in plywoods more than a stain?
Colin,
Thanks very much for making this video. Very informative. A few weeks back I made some homemade dye using black walnut hulls and alcohol. It is still leaching and should be ready in a week or two. It is as dark as ink but translucent as you pointed out as is characteristic of dyes.
I've tested it on red oak scraps and the results are terrific. I didn't see any grain lifting and penetration is excellent. It dries really fast so that might explain why no grain distortion as would be the case with water.
Do you have any experience with alcohol based dyes? Any drawbacks? I imagine that commercial dry dyes would also mix with alcohol.
Hardnox I do not have any experience with alcohol based dyes, only water based. I did mix a small bath of dry water based dye with alcohol but it would not mix together so you are ahead of me in actually making alcohol based dye .... good for you!!! I am curious, what is the alcohol base you are using?
Alcohol base should work just great, as you say, will dry quickly and shouldn't lift the grain. Thanks for the note on this, keep me abreast of what you are doing.
Colin
Hardnox Thanks for this info ... I will go through this, appreciate the quick response
Colin
If you're going for an ethanol base you'll have to work faster and more precisely than when you're using water, so water base is just simpler to use (and simpler to fix if you mess up). You won't have to sand much after applying water base dye, a fine paper will do.
Hi Tommy, yes you will get lots of differing opinions, and probably all of them correct. When it comes to finishing there are many, many different ways.
Good for you for doing this, it's a great way to get stated. We would love to see some pics when you get it finished :)
Colin
Very interesting, I have not even thought of trying it. I can't see why it would not work. Would love to see some pics of your finished work ... and hear more about how you use this.
Thanks for commenting
Colin
Cringing as I see stain going on BE maple. Nice video. Can you recommend a nice brown dye that I can use for very dark walnut and dilute it for lighter pieces so I do not have to buy a bunch of different browns? I don't do a ton of refinishing, usually just tops or touch-up work. Also, what I do occasionally come across is pieces that are mixtures of pecan and walnut, using pecan for the solid pieces. This is another reason for to adjust my shades. I am just trying to avoid a large investment until I find the right product. BTW, do you mix these with water only? I always thought it was with alcohol.
These powder dyed are brilliant. If you want it to be lighter, you'll just add less to the water. It'll be the same colour but just lighter. I personally recommend them.
In that case I would suggest a Minwax product called Polyshades. It's a one step stain and finish and comes in a variety of colors. Probably available at larger home reno stores like Home Depot, etc.
Check that out, I think that will work nicely for you
Thanks for the Video. I have NEVEN ever treated wood anyhow but I like trying to build new things of wood. like a wooden storage or some shelving, etc. I used an oil. For some reason I thought that is a right thing to do. but for now I have no idea what each product does. Oil, Stain, Dye, Finish. I might be mixing stuff left and right but that is what I see on a shelve in Home Depot and I have no idea what I really need. Eventually I just wanted a wood that looks like wood but treated so it does not crack, some termites protection and nice looking. Further I am not planing to paint that. Could you please clarify what is what? any notes will be highly appreciated. Sorry for a nooby question :)
Yes I see, it looks very cool. Any speaker boxes for guitars (or amps) have always been (good quality) plywood, of some sort, but these have all been quite large too like 24"x36"- to 48". There are some challenges in working with natural lumbers in large sizes, but you may be making something quite a bit smaller. My best suggestion would be to write this up in the forums on woodworkweb, there are many others who might have ideas and suggestions that could help, and I will see it there too.
Colin
its crazy and impressive you have over 10 years of quality vids
Thanks for commenting, we appreciate your kind words
Colin
Just watched your video on dye vs stain and learned a LOT. One problem with dyes that I've found is the tendency to get lapping when trying to use dye on a large surface such as a table top. I"ve seen suggestions that using an HVLP gun to spray it works better on large surfaces. Any thoughts?
Great video. It helped me a lot last year when I decided to build a desk! The ebony black dye turned out beautiful. Question though, I am in midst of building an outdoor pergola with (copper) pressure treated wood. Are dyes suitable for this, as well as outdoor? I plan to also seal it with a spar varnish for extra protection, plus I can polish it. I'd love to use this ebony dye again.
Thank you for a lovely and useful video! It helps a lot on my new project of the dining table! 👍👍
Nice comparison video. 10 years later it is a bit late to mention, but as stated dyes are not common to a big box store and I'll use in a pinch food coloring which works well. I've made exotic, in color, stains from both oil & watercolour tube paint and dyes from inks. I've never tried a fabric dye but why not.
@woodworkWeb, I am planning to change color of our yellow/cream color maple cabinets. I would like to see the maple wood grains but would like the color to be in dark brown. Should I use dye or stain? Is it even possible to re-dye ? please advise.
I am living in Malaysia.
I want to make a (something of a) cutting board table top island.
I am thinking of adding dye, and coffee ), and wood stains and other things for color to some to some cheap 1 by 2's on the on the long end of the green (not the wide end) but the 1" end.
Then, I will glue them altogether - hopefully they will be straight! - and sand them down only to a degree that is necessary, hoping the stain will not be removed.
Question :
What to use?
Water based or oil based to get it as deep as possible, knowing i will HAVE to sand it down.
What stain or dye or whatever can penetrate enough that I can sand (a little) and still keep the color?
Anything I can do to make it absorb deeper? It's HOT here in Malaysia (34°C/93° F) and I assume this will help.
Should/could I heat the wood?
Any thoughts?
@WoodWorkWeb
Hi,I bought a 2nd hand solid hardwood table and chairs,sanded it all down
to remove the existing stain (pine) and wanted to do it light oak. I
bought Dulux woodstain which is 2 in 1,it has the stain and satin
lacquer all in one,i tested a sample on the table top (my kitchen table)
and have only given it 1 coat so far,but it did NOT stain very good at all
Is this because i bought a 2 in 1 varnish/stain?
Is it always better to use dye first then over coat with a protective clear lacquer or varnish later?
I just tried another quick coat (2nd coat) on what i already did and it has gone darker already but there are brush marks and where ive overlapped in places it looks light and darker,there seems to be no consistency with it,is it because the paint product is rubbish or is it my technique?
Whats your best advice to make an old solid hardwood table look new again and change from pine to light oak and get a finish thats equal everywhere,i.e., no dark or light patches and looks professional? Is the dye and clear lacquer over the top the best method
Hey mate. That looks awsome. Would I be able to polish the wood and seal it after its dyed? Do you know roughly how deep it penetrates a few millimeters? Cheers and Thank you from perth Australia!
From my experience some finished dissolve and mix with dye, at least that’s the situation I had. So then after wet-wiping the surface, the pigment comes off :(
This sounds like an ongoing interesting project. Pre-treating might be a good idea, but you are right that testing is the best way to see how things turn out.
Keep in touch, am interested to see who this goes
Colin
Hey Mr. Knecht, just lately I have used some black India ink to stain a fret board. What do you think about ink as a dye? Will it adhere to top coats of final finishes? Lacquer? Shellac? Varnish? Danish oil? Have you addressed this in a different video? Thanks! Your video was very good and informative to me!
Thanks for the video! Getting that comparison is really helpful. I'd like to try an aniline dye on pine to achieve a dark finish, since I found it hard to achieve a more uniform dark on pine with an oil-based stain, even with a wood conditioner. Would you say that's the way to go on pine? Or perhaps dye first, then oil-based stain later? Theoretically, I think that could offer an interesting dimensionality and might make it come out more evenly. What do you think? TIA!
great teacher and lesson on dyes vs stain..now i know what i would prefer vs someone telling me what is better..thank you...i cant believe there are 42 dislikes...mmmm
Nice article & presentation of differing processes, Staining & Dyeing. I want to know which process, Stain or Dye, is least likely to run or bleed or leech into an adjoining inlay strip, when clear coated. I am planning to dye some walnut to look like ebony & inlay the finishes strips of it, next to inlay banding of maple. I was also wondering how the stain or dye would effect it's gluing properties.
I have honey/golden oak coloured kitchen cabinets that i want to refinish. Do you recommend a dye or stain? Id like to make them a bit darker, cause i dont like that yellowish tone to them. Do i need to strip all the doors and cabinets down to bare wood, or could i mix dye into a top coat, and just spray the finish with a gun, over my prepped cabinets?
Dyes are nice to work with, but I have never had the opportunity to use them on a wall. Also, I have never seen a white as a dye color, so that could be a challenge too. About the lightest I have seen is like a blonde oak colour, which would be nice on pine, but it's still not a whitish color.
You are an amazing teacher. Now I know exactly the difference btw dye and stain. Thank you 🙏.
You're Welcome!
Thank you! You mentioned the use of stains outside on a fence. Is an ebony dye also suitable outside or will it fade a lot? I'm thinking about staining a redwood deck ebony before sealing it.
Hey Colin/WWW Team,
Nice posting. Very clear and informative.
I just stripped back a cigar box. It was really 'light' so I decided to enhance the grain. I applied Danish Oil (rubbed in for about 1/2 hr), when dry used wet'n'dry 320grit paper 9with the oil again) and rubbed the residue off.
I am still not happy with the shade. Can I proceed to add a Dye over the oil, before I spray with Poly?
Many thanks,
Colum
Hi Colum, all the dyes that I have seen are dissolved in water, so without seeing you project, it sounds like it might not be the best thing to try and put water over oil - but, if you have another piece of wood you can experiment with, or use part of the bottom of the box, that would be the way to go.
I don't always follow what "the books say" but in this case, some experimenting might help you out. Unfortunately you don't have a lot of wood to work with in cigar boxes, and they are not the most robust boxes either, so you will want to take some care.
Sorry I can't be of more help, would love to hear how this turns out :)
Colin
WoodWorkWeb Thanks a million Colin,
Yes of course... water on top of oil..not good!
I would not be buying a dye to dissolve myself, but a tin of branded dye, so whether they are oil or water based, I know not. Lets presume they are water based.
Correct, cigar boxes are not robust at all and I don't have a lot of wood to experiment on. I was stupid and impatient to go ahead and use oil instead of dye first and then oil it, but what's done is done.
It is for my first Cigar Box Guitar build.
So, in your expert opinion what should I use to get a darker look to the cigar box, while maintaining the slight grain that is there, before I poly it?
Is there a darker oil I can apply on top of the Danish oil or how do you suggest I proceed?
Any info is greatly appreciated,
Kind regards,
Colum
Colum Burke Ah ... a cigar box guitar, I love those projects.Well, that dye you could be oil based if it is something you bought in a can. Best way ti=o test it is fill a glass with water, stir up you dye then pour a teaspoon of it on to the glass with water. If it floats, it's oil based, if it appears to mix with the water and if you give it a bit of a stir and it seems to dissolve in the water, it will be water based. If it's oil, you are good to go, if not you will want to find an oil based stain, something like a small can of MinWax stain. They have many to choose from and should be easily available at your closest hardware or home building store.
When the stain is dry in 24 hours, it will be ready for the poly :)
Colin
Thank you for posting this sir, by far the most informative video I've seen. These are the type of woodworking videos I look for.
mustangsalley79 I'm glad this was useful to you, thank you for your feedback
Colin
Thanks for posting, this is good information
Great to have you with us
Colin
Great tutorial! Thanks for taking the time to make this video. I learned a lot!
With the holidays I finally have time to watch some of your older videos.
This one is very interesting. I did not know there was any difference. In fact I never heard the word "dye" before, I think.
I don't know if the "dye" is only used in Canada or the US but I think the these to words are very often mixed up.
I'm quite sure I have seen some videos on woodworking the last few years in which was used the word "stain" where, according to your
"vocabulary" the word "dye" was meant. For example "staining" wood with tea, coffee, etc.
Nice job. Very clear with great support examples.
EMTdrummer Thanks for posting ... appreciate your feedback
Thank you so much for this video. It finally solved the conusion I had for finishing wood. God bless you.
I was just refinishing a little dresser and am very unhappy with the stain I used. I was wondering if applying acetone after would help the stain penetrate better and look more like a dye. I think I'll try it just to see - but I wondered if you have any thoughts about it. I like the colors of the stains, but not the results.
Not sure what you mean?? Brand ? I am using something that Lee Valley sells under their own name, hope that is what you meant, but if not, shoot me another note,
Thanks for commenting ... Colin
Thanks for taking the time to comment :)
Colin
Can I use the dye first and then layer with a diluted oil-based stain on top? Are there any consequences? I know you shouldn't mix a sealer with a stain, but does it matter with dye and stain?
i have noticed that its not always black and white. For example, rusted iron+vinegar is a dye, but also a stain. More over the wood colorisation caused by chemical reaction/interaction (oxidation) in between the wood and the acid. That is also commonly known, it depends on the type, the hardness, and the age of the wood as well. The rust will stay partly on the surface as well, so its not a dye, not a stain, both a little bit both, or something totally different. However everybody call it stain.
I was wondering about the difference and now I know. Thx!
I recently made a 36" US flag using strips of pine and couldn't get the depth of color (Crimson and Navy Blue) I wanted with Minwax tintable stain by leaving it on and wiping off. Extra applications didn't help. I first tried making my own stain and that was washed out also. I thought it was my concoction, but the Minwax was the same. Wood conditioner seemed to make little difference. I looked at dyes, but didn't know enough about them. In the end, I simply used a brush (like painting) to keep thinning out the amount of Minwax stain on the strips until I got the depth and transparency I wanted and then let it dry (even though the can says don't let the excess dry without wiping). After applying a satin finish, the flag came out awesome. I had scorched the wood prior to staining and hand-engraved the stars after. Now a friend wants one!
I felt that I wasn't using the stain right, but since you've explained that it's really a surface coating, I'm not so worried anymore!
I might try a dye in the future on other woodworking projects and see how that looks
Great answered a lot of my questions I was waiting to hear about topcoats I have the waterbase die I’m thinking of putting a polyurethane over the top once it is dry?or Acrylic.
GO with shellac in either clear amber or garnet . easy to apply , repair
Thanks for this video! I have used wood dye and absolutely love it! Although I was familiar with many things in the video, I find there are always little gaps in my knowledge to fill. Still learning! Did you use aniline dye? That's the only wood dye I've used and is it one of the better types of dyes for wood? The ebony dye is beautiful!
Fantastic insight into the understanding of wood dyes and wood stains
Keep up the knowledge sharing 👍🏽
Redd Boy Glad you enjoyed, thanks for the comments
I'm currently experimenting with concrete dye on maple guitar necks. Haven't sanded or anything so I don't know if there's any penetration or not. Seems kinda chalky but smooth at the same time.
I'm looking to either stain or dye a set of speakers. Thing is,they are Baltic Birch.I'm wanting a deep reddish brown color to them with the grain raised. Is this possible with dye? I'm going to start sanding them soon and will be using a 400 grit. I have also heard of gel stain. From what i have read, Baltic Birch is a pain to stain though. 'm looking for the safest way to acheive this......
Ghostnotes1221 To be honest, I have not stained baltic birch so I have little knowledge of working with it. What I would suggest is that you do some testing with some cut-off pieces scrap pieces first, no matter what you settle on. I would be a shame to use something that you don't like after all that work.
Thanks Colin. As always informative. Never used dyes but can see how much more of the character of the wood comes through. \\\\yes there was a couple of mix ups between the 2 but I understood. After all you are a woodworker not a pro TV presenter. The important thing is you got the message over. Enjoyed it.
Thanks Barry, for taking the time ... great to have you with us
Hello again , I am getting ready to Use the water based wood dye on the Curly Maple banjo kit I told you about and experiment with mixing colors, Red, Yellow & Brown, to get the right shade. Can you approximate how much of a Mix, Pint? or more , I need just to do the neck & rim of this banjo? and help me determine how much powder / water to mix to reach that goal? Thanks so much. DanO'
MrDanoconnor Hmm you won't need much, a pint would be plenty, but even if you mix the whole thing, the water dyes keep really well (unless you are limited to for room).
When it comes to mixing, start with the lightest color and add a just bit of red to it, like maybe a teaspoon, then same with the brown. You will be surprised how little dark it takes to start changing the color significantly.
Carry on Dano, ... I am waiting for pics :)
WoodWorkWeb Thank You so much for your help, greatly appreciated.
I use veneer to make finger boards (miniature skateboards) and I just bought some dye transtint dye. Any tips? Leave the veneer in a jar and leave it in the sun for a while so it can get it’s true colors? I’m using maple veneer
Would it be good 2 Stain & Then dye it after the stain dries/ Not 2 Sure how it would look as I haven't done Woodworking in along time & I'm now interested in building my own Furniture & Wanted 2 Know if I can stain & Then add: The Dye after what should I do can I do both or just stick 2 Stain or Dye.What is best?
I use gel stains applied to wood around vinyl stencils, I get nice clean lines at the edges. Is this possible to do with a dye due to it soaking in to the wood? Would love to find a good water based finish since my shop is heated with a woodstove.
It's really difficult to answer a question like this because it leads to many more questions before a recommendation can be made, like what kind of wood is it? what kind of a look are you striving for? Is this a valuable heirloom piece? do you want Gloss, Matte, Satin? Lot of different variable and many different combinations of finishes to choose from.
My best suggestion would be to post something on the Forums at woodworkweb and I am out of room here already, sorry.
This is an excellent video. Non-Grain-Raising (NGR) dyes are available which help you to avoid the chief disadvantage of dyes. I like the Mohawk brand myself. This product is sometimes packaged as Behlen's Solar-lux. The dye works "like a charm" although it dries quite quickly so lap marks can be a problem in hot weather. Apply it in cool of the evening or use a retarder.
Can you add dye to the stain itself to accomplish desired color. I have oak stain that I am applying to a small section of a burned out floor. After the first coat the area still looks burned out. Adding another coat should make the wood darker, however the stain is so light that I am considering adding just a little dye instead of keep re-coating. Of course I plan to sample on a disposable piece first... Would you suggest this? What dye is safe to add to stain?
Many thanks!
+Don Powell You can add dye to stain (in many cases) but only if mediums are the same, oil to oil or water to water cannot mix water based dye to oil based stain.
One of the issues with stain, is that because it is ground up rock, it typically lays on top of the wood. Adding dye on top of the dried stain might not be too effective. To be honest I never tried that.
I never new there were wood dyes. You said stains last outside forever. What about dyes? Do you have to seal the wood if it is going outside, for example a large planter? Thank you!!!
Very informational, it answered all my questions! Great teachings.
How does the dye hold up to cleaners? I came about this video while looking for information on dying gun grips. The grips would come in contact with solvent cleaners while cleaning the gun. Will the solvents take the dyes off?
The way I see it, if you put varnish (or oil) after the dye, it should protect it.
If you don’t want to raise the grain you can use alcohol to desolve your dyes instead of water, which has very little affect on the wood, even helps penetration.
Hi where do you get your dyes from? I would like to get all different colors of dye packets :D thanks!
Sam Torabi Hi Sam, I get mine from Lee Valley, they sell the water soluble version and have a good selection. There are alcohol soluble versions as well but I have not had a chance to try them.
A couple of things you didn't mention are that there are also alcohol based stains that will help limit how much the grain is raised when applied. Also, a downside to dies that was kind of implied at the beginning is that they're not colorfast and will fade over time.
Brian Ekins Hi Brian, I have search for hours looking for burnt umber dye I can’t find it anywhere. Rockler had a few others, eBay was a no go. Can you tell me where I might locate some? Many thanks, Todd
You said the con of using dye was that it was water based and lifted the grain. Please keep in mind that you can use other carriers such as alcohols or lacquer thinner. I prefer Sherwin Williams haps compliant dye stain reducer. None of these will raise the grain and they dry much faster than water. I have used Lenmar and Sherwin Williams brand Sherwood dyes with the dye stain reducer and it worked well with no raised grain.
Hi, thanks for making videos they help me a lot. Once the dye is mixed whats the shelf life?
Carmen Serrett Good question Carmen, I have had some mixed for 2+ years and it's fine, I don't even have to stir it. I do not recall seeing anything that talks about a shelf life for these aniline dyes, but experience tells me ... should be good for a few years anyway.
hi , i am putting in some pine skirting boards but want to dye or stain them to look like the OAK doors we have, is this possible?
lol ... I love your description, yup ... why not give it a whirl. I would love to know what it turns out like, you may a great idea there ;)
Colin
Hi, thanks for the video.
I had a question though. Sorry if you've already answered this somewhere, but do water based stains behave more like dyes?
abd529
No ,water based stains are basically stains (like the oil ones) but to be used with water based polyurethane ,I’m talking about Minwax product ,if you use the rust oleum or the varetine stains ,you can use oil poly or water based poly
great information and presentation!
I'm Dying to try it
Thanks Scotty
Considering purchasing a beach house where the the entire place is paneled with what appears to be pine or maple veneer paneling that is NOT sealed, the good news. It's smooth to the touch but not laminated. Its aged a medium oak color bordering on the blonde/red side. I'd like to see the knots come through and not lose the variation in grain colors, but go either white or off white. Should I be using a prep to make sure to get the top layer clean, and would dye be a better choice?
Another con for me using dyes is that I would have to store them in the house when the shop heat is off.
What is the shelf life on dyes?
Do you really need to wipe off the dye?
What about clear coats on top of the dye?
Will glue stick to dyed or partially dyed wood?
Thanks for the info! I will have to try a dye project soon. I am visualizing a project with multiple colors.
I've seen water dye on a plank of wood(maple like here) and then lacquer sprayed on top for the UV seal and give it a nice flashy finish.
Hi. You may have answered this previously but I stripped the paint (my mistake) and original finish (a dark brown stain on light wood, for some reason) off a dresser that I want to use as a buffet. Many hours of work! How do you "finish" a piece that you dye? Would an oil work or do you need a sealer? Thanks. ; )
Very informative with excellent examples and explanation. Thanks
Thank you so much for this video! I was trying to understand dyes vs stains and you made it clear and easy to understand.
Awese video! Great detailed information as to what the difference really is! Thank you for sharing
+Hugo Contreras thanks for taking a moment to comment :)
What would you recommend for a big oak table and chairs that I'd like a darker color?
abiquafarmgirl To be honest, it can be a bit tricky trying to give finishing advice on-line. I am assuming the table and chairs are not new? and already have a finish on them? The other thing I can tell you is probably this set is not real old, like not antique, and the reason I suspect that it is newer, is oak gets darker as it ages, so in time, it will get darker and darker. You probably will have a couple of choices ... 1 - strip everything down and start from scratch (this is LOT of work0 or 2 - find something that you can coat over top of what is there and depending on where you live, there can be a variety of choices.
What I would do in your situation is go to an established paint of finish store and talk to them about what they might have. They will be able to tell you how to test what you have to see what kind of a finish you already have, then they can recommend something that can go over top of what you have.
Sorry ... not an easy answer for you, but finishing is one of those tricky areas ... all the best with your project.
I have a cushman rock maple table i have sanded down to 120 grit and was wanting to do a dark stain but now I'm curious if i should be using a dye? I also have a pine stool in the same room and would like them to match. Is it going to make a big difference on colors if i use the same dye on the maple and the pine?
***** I could be Derek, in this case you might be better off with a stain because stains tend more to lie on top the wood so you would have a better chance of matching them. What I would do i find the color you want then try a bit of the stain on the underside of the stool seat (assuming it is bare wood, you should probably sand this a bit to make sure) and you could do the same on the underside of the table. This is one way of testing to see how close a match you can get.
Hope this helps .... Colin
Okay thank you! That's what I'll do and let you know how it ends up. I've just read how hard it is to stain maple and prevent blotchy results. I was reading into the aniline dyes and was going to attempt that. If I use a stain probably a spray bottle would work best, since the table is quite large?
***** Another option for you would be to call the Minwax people to get their suggestions. You should be able to find their phone number and email on their website, they make the products and have tested them on all sorts of products and I'm sure others have wanted to match colors on 2 different woods so I am sure they would have encountered this question. I would certainly call them, I have talked to them in the past and they are excellent.
Thank you very much. I'll be sure to report my results!
Thank you going for the dye.Very good video.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching.
Hi, I'm thinking about building a custom speaker cabinet for my guitar and I'm looking for some pointers. The wood would either be birch or maple and I'm looking to get a high gloss translucent black color. If you google "charcoal burst stain" you'll see what I'm going for. Any tips or ideas you could give me would be greatly appreciated.
idk what kind of stain youre using (probably an outdoor one) but my stain i use for finishing, look nothing like that. thats legit mud.
Its called pigment and all stains have it. Pigments are not all just dirt scooped up. Theyre chemically extracted or made from materials to get uniform colors. All stains will have settling of pigment if they sit. This guy is just dumbing it down for the layman.