Almost every car turns them off when you stop the car or turn the sidelights/ main lights off. A car would have to have a physical on/off switch even vauxhall did away with them in 1991
@@chrishart8548 Yes, however, I've seen a lot of people driving around with front and rear fog lights on when there hasn't been poor visibility driving conditions for weeks.
@@rogerwilco2 On modern cars yes but some older cars had the warning light on the switch which in the case of some Vauxhalls was to right of and below the level of the steering column.
General rule of thumb for rear fog lights...... Consider them ‘Very low visibility lights’ If you can see the cars behind you, then they can see you, so switch your rear fogs OFF’
I do agree, but this is not always the case. think of the situation were the sun is very low and right in front of you, now add spray or mist. you will be able to see what is behind you a lot better than what is in front of you. so assuming the car behind you can see you as well as you can see him doesn't apply to every situation.
Errr, no - definitely not. The cars behind you have headlights for you to see them by. All they have is your relatively dim side lights to see you by. The correct test is to look at the cars *in front* of you. Can you see them perfectly well without rear fog lights? If so, then turn yours off. Or to put it another way - ask yourself whether you'd prefer the cars in front of you to have rear fog lights on or off. Do the same.
Agree with you John. Ive just read your post. This is what I put elsewhere What's the difference when on a fast road, the difference between mist and fog and spray? In wet weather heavy rain for example the spray from fast moving vehicles create a mist like condition just like fog. If i can only just see the vehicle in front without the lights on. (half the time they don't have any lights on) it's time to no longer drive behind them as they can't be seen clearly. With the rear fogs on you can see and judge your distance. Remember it takes longer to stop when the ground is wet so you need more distance between you and the vehicles in front and behind. If you increase that gap and can't see the car in front because of the mist from the rain. The chances are the person behind you won't see you either. Thats when it's a sensible time to use rear fogs lights. Admittedly some people's eyesight are better than others. But what is safer, someone being able to see you or someone driving into the back of you?
@@johnwinters4201 You make a fair additional point. Of course you can balance your opinion based on the cars in front, and behind 👍🏻 The distances are rarely the same though, so it’s always a moving feast. Truth is though, is traffic, where there are cars fore and aft, it’s incredibly rare to need fog lights at all. Once everyone is line astern at a steady speed, that’s usually slower than normal. Have you ever driven in spray on the motorway, when the sun then comes out? Low visibility for sure. However, adding fog lights to that mix, just blinds everyone and does a very good job of disguising brake lights! It can be even worse in spray at night 👀 How about this…… If you are ever in a compromised visibility situation, with NO visible traffic behind, then ALWAYS run your rear fog light. IF a VEHICLE catches you up, sees you and holds station with your speed, then switch off.
All I know is I now have green dots in my vision due to driving for several miles behind a woman with her fog lights on. MIST is not FOG. What’s more is if a vehicle behind you flashes you then be considerate enough to check to see if they’re warning you about a potential hazardous condition regarding your vehicle or as in this case misuse of vehicle lights.
Was on the M5 and M42 in some nasty spray last Sunday, couldn't see 50m in front or behind. Felt like I was the only one with my rear fog and dipped headlights on and quite a few cars tore past me with no lights on at all (it was 10am!). Felt like I was doing something wrong but this has cleared that up!
Yeah, if you're struggling to see the lights of cars in front without fog lights then there's no way it's not appropriate to use yours. The last time I was in spray that heavy I was kind of amazed how few people used theirs.
if you can't see 50m in front then you all should be driving at less than 40mph, then fog lights aren't needed. The whole fog light thing is BS, it's an excuse to keep driving at a higher speed that is demonstrably not safe even with fog lights.
@@ynotnilknarf39 Yes , you should be at reduced speed , but if following traffic is not at reduced speed , that is all the more reason to make yourself as highly visible as you can by turning on your rear fog lamp . Otherwise you will be rear ended - probably sooner rather than later .
@@derekheeps1244 no it isn't, you're removing the onus of responsibility to those behind and onto those in front. This is how RTCs increase, like putting onus of not getting killed onto cyclists by forcing hi-vis and helmets, neither of which work to increase safety and in fact decrease safet (as does helmet wearing in an sport/activity and workplace) Similarly onus on pedestrians to get out the way. Things like Green Cross Code only allowed motorists to act with greater aggressiveness and took greater risks with the expectation that kids/peds would get out their way. No mistakes allowed or you were blamed for getting injured/killed this still continues today. This victim blaming BS is why things have not improved one iota and continue to get worse despite all the tech/driver aids, bigger tyres, bigger brakes and brighter lights. I've been in Health and Safety for almost three decades, the lies and BS spewed within the industry mask the dangers of so called PPE and mitigation factors that are alleged to reduce incidents. Same with seatbelts and so much more.
@@derekheeps1244 the overall affect is by complying you contnually rely on this and the overall effect is worse for everyone longer term. I see this all the time in Health and Safety, same for PPE. people think it's good but it isn't, it shows detrimental outcomes at individual and population levels. Helmets, Hi-vis, seatbelts etc, all cause more harm than if people simply took more care. PPE induces greater risk taking and overcomes any notional benefit PPE might afford, more often than not, PPE fails miserably
3:19 that’s it, rule 114, you must not use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other road users, including pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders, in stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights, this will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again’, I always do this, even in good weather, it’s a very good habit to get into.
I was taught to use them if visibility was below 100metres, which is actually quite a rare occurance, I was also advised that its maybe a good idea to turn them off if you aren't the last vehicle in a queue so you don't dazzle the driver behind. Obviously after I've ascertained that they have actually seen me and matched my speed.
I was taught to use the handbrake when at traffic lights. I now resent everyone who sits with their foot on the brake, for more than a minute when it is a busy staggered junction with lots of lights, and railway lines, especially at night in the glare. The glare is so annoying. It is also best in the case of someone rear-ending you. Lights in general are too bright. LED lights are too efficient and there is barely any difference between dipped beam and full.
I'll sit with foot on the brakes at a junction if there is no-one behind me, as soon as I see someone approaching behind I'll switch to handbrake and foot off.
The correct way at traffic lights. Is to put on your handbrake and keep your foot on the foot break to light your break lights. If there is no one behind you. When a car approaches from behind you and comes to stop behind you. Then you take your foot off the break pedle to switch off the break lights to not dazzle them. Then realise your handbrake when you want to move off.
Fog lights are actually amazing when you do get to use them. I've been in weather where I'm following floating red spots in the distance.. quite spooky. No way would I have known cars were there otherwise.
Rear fog light on my car is insane very bright red LED that is brighter than most LED brake lights. I've seen other models of my car in foggy conditions and it does stand out.
@@darronian4951 Absolutely I think it was 2014 when day running lights became mandatory to try and improve safety, trying to copy Volvo a manufacturer with one of the best safety records but for some reason only front running lights where mandated Volvo have had front and rear for many years. Even if the manufacturers didn't illuminate the dash panel with the day running lights, at least then when it got dark the driver would have an obvious indication their headlamps are not on.
@@bulwinkle The manufacturers lobbied the EU hard to make it front only as they claim it reduces the CO2 output. Scandinavian countries which have had a law firm decades requiring front and rear DRLs still have them. The parts are still in place - it's just a setting in the car's computer. I've set mine (on various VW group cars) to match the Scandinavian settings.
I'm glad somebody has mentioned being dazzled by brake lights while queuing at signals. I've been sat behind someone with brake lights on loads of times and thought it probably wasn't right as their lights were dazzling me. Glad it's actually a 'thing' and not just something I don't like!
Oh man some of these (new then) HIDs and newer LEDs are just insanely bright. For the same wattage they can produce nearly double if not far more lumens as conventional incandescent bulbs. I've noticed it's the aftermarket kits that are often way too bright, the OEM LEDs these days seem to not be too crazy compared to the DIY hack jobs you'd expect to see in a clandestine indoor grow op instead of vehicle lights.
I recently bought a new car and noticed something strange. The dipped headlights where almost indistinguishable from the full beams. Turns out there's a switch below the steering wheel that changes the angle of the headlights for when the car is heavily loaded and of course it was in the heavily loaded position. :/
@@ethelmini I've just got a new (to me!) car and it has auto stop/start. If I hold the clutch and brake, it stays off. If I release the brake and use the handbrake, the engine comes back on. I'm hoping there's a way to change that as I'm old skool enough to not trust the hill start assist so still manage that myself. And as to the fog lights, I have used them on motorways before when the rain was so bad that everyone slowed to 30mph, and then switched them back off once the squall ended. Other than that, it's foggy only.
Stupid topic dipped headlights will do. there should be no need for fog lights on any vehicle. Fog lights give idiots a false sense of security. The law covers this in that you should not exceed the speed at which you can stop in the distance that you can see to be clear. That means that if you hit anything that you say did not have lights on in fog you are breaking the law.
@@sidneyeaston6927 WRONG : for lights or lamps have a completely different light dispersal pattern and are designed to throw out a low wide beam which illuminates the road surface in front of and to the sides of your car WITHOUT a lot of reflected glare back in your face , which you will get from dipped headlamps in fog at night . Now you know .
I loved your comment about applying the hand brake in stationary traffic. I find these days that hardly anyone uses their handbrake in traffic, in fact two of my daughters who had lessons with different instructors were both taught to use their foot brake only. I only found this out by pure chance when I took my middle daughter out when she was learning and I had to ask her why she wasn't using her handbrake at the lights. So now you've raised the matter of handbrake use, who is correct..me who has been driving for 30+ years or my daughter's with less then 3 years driving experience. Thanks
I know it's quite surprising. I still use my handbrake. I was told to when I was learning, I'm in my forties now. And I was taught by and old guy in, Metro school of motoring. Over 25years ago. He said if some hits you from behind you have less chance of hitting the persons car in front if your handbrake is applied. But yeah I see so many red light brakes on. Even at level crossings when we are told to switch the engine off. 🤯 They are just happy to leave the engine running and pollute the air and waste fuel. 🙄
I'm not sure if you're European or not but here in the states on both manual and automatics some cars don't even have your normal handbrake anymore, and unfortunately the "hand" brake and release are usually located in some odd spot that's a total PITA and foot operated. So basically everyone here just holds their foot on the brake aside from a select few. When I did have a vehicle with a conventional handbrake I did use it often when stopped in heavy seasonal traffic for ten plus minutes at a time and for the extremely rare hill launch in south Florida. My current truck has the annoying foot operated kind with a release I gotta contort to grab easily and I honestly can't be bothered with the gymnastics behind using it, not in traffic or even the mountains now that im in the Rockies. My legs are too long for my cab with the seat all the way back and my knee jams the release into the dash, but i can't hold my clutch without tilting my knee to the door or I hit my dash lol. I'd rather heel toe it tbh.
If it causes discomfort to others behind , then use Park or parking brake if in a manual vehicle ; if no one close behind , or in daylight when no discomfort will be caused , hold vehicle on service brake until time to move off .
@@viciousvicious1340 Stopping and starting the engine unnecessarily can not only waste more fuel than keeping it running for a few minutes , but it becomes a nuisance for others when we all have to wait for the unready to restart their engines , which sometimes fail to restart , and reduces the numbers of people who get through a phase of the traffic lights . If I am next to one of these cars which stall themselves at lights , I am always 100 yes down the road by the time they move off . They are an utter waste of time .
I on the other hand have only ever heard of rear fog lights for the first time reading these comments tonight, never seen or heard of such a thing here in the US though they sound somewhat similar to rear/side facing off road lights.
In fairness , the rules have changed over the years . At one time RVLR did state that fog lights may only be used when visibility was reduced to less than 100m BY FOG OR FALLING SNOW . That has since been changed to simply 'when visibility is seriously reduced' , and indeed circumstances such as heavy rain or spray , even smoke , can be valid reasons to use them ( comes down to the old advice of see and be seen ) . It is fair to qualify this further , though , with a couple of further comments , particularly relating to use of fog lights ( front and rear ) after dark .The quoted section of HC stated that in reduced visibility you MUST use dipped headlamps , however , in foggy conditions after dark , you MAY use front for lamps INSTEAD of dipped headlamps : this is because the different dispersal pattern of front fog lamps throws out a low wide beam which illuminates the road surface ahead WITHOUT reflecting light back in the fog as dipped headlamps would . Second point re using rear fog lamps at night : all very well if for fog or heavy falling snow , but please NOT for rain or spray as that will just dazzle following drivers who are already having a hard time seeing ahead and should be at reduced speed anyway .
The old 'public service announcement' as they used to be called on the telly back in the 70's stated that you shouldn't use fog lights in the rain because they are brighter than your brake lights and cars following you would have an hard time seeing your brake lights through the rain on their screen as well as your fog lights drowning out your brake lights (so to speak), but having said that cars back then just had 1 cluster of lights i.e. back, brake, indicator and fog light (+reverse if you had a decent motor) all in one place, now days the light are all over the place so depending on what vehicle you have your fog lights could be as much as a meter/yard from your brake lights so maybe wouldn't 'drown out' the brake lights.
When I was in the police service some decades ago we followed that principal of law that they were only to used in fog and falling snow and not to be used just in wet weather conditions as the rear fog light/s being as bright as a brake lights they could be mistaken for them or make vision difficult for others behind to see without being effected by glare..
@@SoloMickyB The more enlightened manufacturers also fit a single rear fog lamp rather than a pair , precisely because two rear fog lamps can so easily be mistaken for brake lights - some countries do not permit this though .
I think 80% of drivers don't know when to use them (100m rule). They see a tiny patch of fog and think "oh, it's foggy, I'll put my fog lights on" then leave them switched on for a week. In some countries in Europe you have to use dipped headlights when it's raining, not only that the speed limit on the motorway is reduced by 10kmph. I think that rule should be brought in here. Conditions are rarely that bad you need to use fog lights.
Yep, a bit of mist doesn't reduce visibility to the point of needing fog lights. Neither does spray. It would need to be a torrential downpour for fog lights to be necessary, and we simply do not have the right climate for that in England.
There's a section of an M1 around Hemel Hempstead that is notorious for spray due to poor drainage. On that part I regularly put front and rear fogs on as do lots of other drivers, but what I tend to do is only use the rear one if I'm at the end of a queue, once I see some headlights catching me I will turn them off soon to avoid dazzle. Plus I've let them know what my fogs look like.
This is all such sensible advice. And it proves that one should use discretion but clearly some people don;t even know what that word means! My father years ago said he wished drivers wouldn't use side-lights in daytime fog. The reason he said was because they are not bright enough or large enough to penetrate the fog very far ahead and in fog you can see the body of a vehicle as you close on it, before you see its side-lights. But still thousands of drivers use side-lights or no lights at all in fog. I read somewhere that a driver didn't use his lights in daytime driving because he thought it used up electricity and flattened his battery. When I heard that, despair set in|!
As always, an excellent, clear explanation of the rules. Regarding glare caused by fog lights however, I find oncoming vehicles with Xenon lights far more destructive to vision than vehicles who have their front fog lights on. This is especially true in country lanes where, in my view, Xenon lights are downright dangerous to other road users.
The low angle of incidence against a wet road surface can make low mounted fog lamps more of an annoyance since they reflect over a greater distance than headlamps which are higher up ; fog lamps mounted at the same height as the headlamps don't cause this problem . Again it comes down to poor car design .
For rear fogs, its not just about how far you can see in heavy spray, but how far you can be seen from. It is quite possible that you can see a mile, but in a cloud of spray your normal tail lights, or no lights at all may not be seen at all in the cloud.
Furthermore , you may have adjusted your speed such that you can stop sales in the limited distance you can see to be clear , but following drivers may be approaching at much higher speeds and be unable to stop by the time they do see you , UNLESS you have your high intensity rear warning lamp on ( to give it its correct name ) .
I read the title of the video as, "Fog without fog." I was like, "What?" Wow. I have been working too hard for too long, lol. I need to rest. 😂🤦 Great video, Ashley.
@@Mrfort Aha yes new cars do have daytime Running lights , but they are not fog lights mentioned here. I would be interested if these new Daytime lights do cause glare for the driver as they reflect off the fog back to the Drivers eyes.
I only ever use my rear fog lights during spray and thick fog. However, I do like to use my front fog lights on dark and narrow country roads to give me a little bit more light output as well as lighting up the verges more; I switch Them off if I see oncoming traffic though. Tell me what your opinion is on that Ashely, I'm interested to know.
I think this is fine, I used to do the same on my Subaru, treat it like my main beam though, and switched them off to not dazzle oncoming traffic. The more light you can throw forward the better on dark roads for me, as long as nobody has to suffer blindness!
if it's to help visibility on verges, which is where deer and other animals stand waiting to run into the road, and they get turned off with oncoming cars, I'm all in for it. My car is 18 years old and fairly rare so parts are getting harder to find. If I can avoid damage at all costs, I will and I will be adopting this idea in my own driving too!
Yes, but how quickly do you turn them off. Are they always off for every car you encounter around a bend. It's hard enough to get the high beams off in time and they have a dedicated quick change mechanism. I have been dazzled by countless people driving with fog lights as ancillary light sources.
In germany you are allowed to use the front foglights in bad weather conditions but the rear one is only for fog with a visibility under 50 metres. You are also restricted to drive 30 kph max under those conditions. Fascinating how it is in different countries
Yes , it would simplify things if traffic laws were harmonised across Europe , since people often drive from one country to another and may not always be familiar with the law in each country . I have driven many times in Germany but was not familiar with that particular law . Another unusual one is that in Belgium it is unlawful to use cruise control when it is raining !
Its not just fog lights that dazzle, most car manufactures are using ultra high power LEDs or Xrypton lights, and the lensing is so accurate, they meet al the legal criteria but going over even a small bump means you get flashed or flash someone, then they flash back, and its all down hill from there. Even a slight bend in the road means you get dazzled from on coming cars. The manufactures need to do a lot more analysis on this, its not just as simple as fitting ever more powerful lights.
@Nicolla Hannah Butterfield They (some) do have auto adjust, works off a level sensor ie accelerometer due to gravity. But this still doesn't do it. Lights are too bright and to direct, old lamps used to have a fading area.
@Nicolla Hannah Butterfield You are right, but these are not old cars that need attention, these are 1 -2 years old vehicles, the prismatic angles are just too accurate, early 90s when LEDS were new -ish in cars it was a comp between manufactures to say how all the light was placed on the road and not scattered, except now they are so bright (forget watts, its Lumens) and accurate, just try it, put lights on (not full beam) walk 100m down the road and slowly drop to the ground whilst looking at the light, at some point it will hurt. It is this that I think is dangerous.
I have been driving since 1974 and have ysed my foglights less than 20 times probably. I go on the motorway where there may a bit of mist and half a mile if visibility and there's some berk with rear foglights on. Only in really poor visibility will I put my foglights on. In reality, in the UK we really don't have the weather to need foglights thst often.
Absolutely. It depends on the climate where you live. In the U.S. there are people the live in mountain regions where fog can last well into the day. Other places in the U.S. may have only 10 days of fog per year. And even then it only lasts for a short time during the early morning hours. Some regions can have white-out or gray-outs during a severe thunderstorm when visibility can be lost completely. I'm talking about zero visibility.
Great video. Fogs on in heavy rain is something I didn't know about. Last week I fitted some more expensive, brighter halogen bulbs as the ones aI had before were not great. I had a look into retro fitting a HID/LED kit but they are now illegal and I can understand why. If they are not fitted correctly then the beam could be scattered in directions that it shouldn't and badly blind other road users.
Which is unfortunately something that all cars made after 2nd half of 2018 also seem to do. I care much less about people using their front Foglights for a Sporty look or whatever than I do people in new Audi/Merc/BMW/Transits/HGV, blinding the living hell out of me, both from the opposite side of the road as well as from behind (even in different lanes, multiple cars back!). Madness.
@@EvoBeard Laser lights and matrix lights do not work in single-lane traffic regardless of all the marketing, might as well drive around with high beams on.
With my car and others with light controls on the indicator stalk (Toyota is my experience of it), if we have our back fog lights on then because of poor conditions then we have to have our front ones on too. It’s the way the switch work. 1st click front fogs, 2nd position front and rear. That’s why some people drive with them on. Of course that doesn’t explain people who drive with them on in normal / good driving conditions. But in spray conditions that’ll be why
A lot of drivers don’t correctly use their lights. In rain and dusk or dawn it’s surprising how many drivers only have side lights or no lights. Regarding fog lights, their are the ones who drive around with front fogs on all the time and then the ones who light up the rear fog lights in the slightest miss. One of my biggest thing really annoys me is, drivers sitting with their foot on the brake, blinding the driver behind, it is very difficult to avert your eyes away. The answer is simple, “PUT YOUR HANDBRAKE ON”
Modern auto lights cause a lot of problems too.. The dash lights up so people assume that they are lit up, the amount of cars you see now in the dark with no lights on at the back is ridiculous
@@12crepello Correct, you have to keep your foot on the brake unless you switch into parking on the shifter, a rather poor idea if you're waiting to move off.
@@heinrichb Not always the case. My VW (2014 model Passat) has a parking brake which is easy to operate yet allows the auto box to be left in Drive. As soon as I press the accelerator the parking brake is released automatically and off I go.
I totally agree with this. One thing, most cars have 1x rear fog lamp. I assume this is to differentiate a singular fog lamp from a pair of brake lights. Yet another well researched informative video👍👍
I have two. If there's one, it's often paired with a single reverse light. The regulations would make such left hand drive vehicles illegal to register here plus one is easier to obscure & make you twice a vulnerable to bulb failure. Best if they're not part of the main light cluster.
@@ethelmini No - the regulations state that a rear fog lamp must be fitted to the offside of the vehicle , which on a LHD vehicle is the left side - perfectly compliant . Two rear fog lamps are too easily mistaken for brake lamps
I've got nowhere to compare it to but it does seem bad. Only started driving in August and the last few weeks I've been dazzled numerous times, even having an SUV's lights seared in to my vision for a few minutes after passing them.
Ref FRONT FOG lamps, nowadays the front (fog) lamps are regarded as "driving lamps" makes vehicle easier to see, i believe we inherited it from swedan (volvo) where its regarded as a safety feature, with my car the driving lamps come on when you turn the ignition on , ( yes you can disable them).
@@whichwasher2007 Nope, front fog lights can only be on when visibility is reduced. Driving lights are a separate thing though, even when they often go in the same place on the car
In heavy spray on the motorway where in places puddles can form then using front fog lights can actually help in spotting the outer edges of the lane and in my case over the weekend helped me spot potential hazards that could have caused me to lose control by hitting standing water at speed. It still amazes me how close motorists want to get to my tailgate in very poor weather.
With all the traffic now, cars don't need fog lights! There is never a time when a car is over 100 feet from you! Give a car 10 feet and the bugger will pull in front of you!
That makes perfect sense. One thing that I would mention, right or wrong, is this..... When driving in a built up area, particularly in traffic, I prefer not to use rear foglights. Brake lights might not be noticed. Your thoughts on this, Ashley, would be much appreciated. On a parting note....... Fools Rush In...... Stay safe everyone 👍👍
Don’t understand why people don’t use them 24/7 in general. Every car I’ve seen with DRLs only has them at the front and they’re ghosts from behind. Then the ones without DRLs and no lights on are just asking for accidents.
That does my head in.I know in Denmark its a legal requirement to use your headlights at all times. The daytime running lights need upgraded to include the rear.
In the past couple of weeks the weather has been pretty poor. I've seen people with no lights on at all in thick fog and also people using foglights in clear conditions. Both ends of the scale! I also knew someone who would put their front foglights on to look "cool" but this also put the rear foglights on too... I've used my rear foglight on the motorway in torrential rain. And it was actually a lot better to drive in if other drivers had theirs on too as they were much easier to see!
It doesn’t matter *why* visibility is reduced. As long as it is under 100m, fog lights are perfectly legal to use. Generally, I won’t use rear fog lights if I can see the headlights of the car behind, just so I’m not dazzling them. If visibility is low enough to require me to slow down because of it, then they go on and stay on. One irritating thing I’ve found with my car, is that I can have front fog lights & side lights on (necessary when visibility is so low that the dipped beam reflects back, further reducing visibility) but as soon as I switch the rear fog light on, it forces the headlights on. Great, I’m visible from behind, but I can’t see to go forwards, so I often don’t bother with the rear fog light at all
The 100m figure is not law ; it is just guidance and an individual driver can determine when they consider visibility to be seriously reduced . The 100m figure used to be in RVLR but was removed years ago to be replaced by the qualitative term 'serious reduced' . Being unable to have front and rear fog lamps on without headlamps is poor design and dangerous .
As a biker we suffer when cars have rear fog lights on when not in fog but at night in the rain or wet conditions even with visibility more that 100m. basically filling your visor with red sparkle
Agreed - it could perhaps be stressed though that ideally - it's a head turn and not a body turn - inexperienced drivers who turn their body with their head will often also turn the wheel at the same time, even only slightly. It's mostly for checking blind spot before moving out as the mirror's should be properly adjusted, and peripheral vision being a thing, to account for anyone else.
The Dvsa response says that fog lights should be used if they help with the drivers visibility. This would apply to the use of front fog lights but does not mention when rear fog lights should be used. Therefore I don't think the DVSA email is definitive when it comes to the use of rear fog lights
My argument has always been " if its foggy/rainy enough to be using fog lights, then why the fk are you still driving at 70/80/90 mph ??" TBH I wasnt aware of the exact wording regarding fog light use, but have always worked on the theory that if I cant see the guy in front, the guy behind cant see me - so I'll switch on fog lights....its just common sense & experience really. There are certain makes of car that often have fog lights on several hours or even days after the fog has cleared - car makers need to redisign the switching systems so that when the headlights or ignition is turned off the fog lights are also turned off ( and reset so that on the next use of the car they don't autpmatically come on again)
In most cars (at least in my two Peugeot's, one from the mid 90's!) if you switch the engine off, or the lights off, the fog lights switch off. I recently saw someone in the exact same model as me with their fogs on. That donut was switching on the fog lights on EVERY time he set off and I suspect most of the other drivers do as well!
I used my front and rear fog lights in a torrential down poor on the motorway late at night. The motorway was hardly lit and the rain made it almost impossible to see any car, I totally agree with this. I'd much rather see the vehicle in front. And also, for truck drivers, I use my front fogs in the rain as trying to see people in your side mirrors is like looking at a wall. From experience driving trucks etc
I do sometimes wonder if they do it to show everyone they've got foglights fitted. In which case why don't they make a plaster of paris mould of their penis, and mount on the grille between those same foglights.....
"This was the DVSA's response..." (Catsan advert comes on) "Clearly not the response I was expecting, but our furry friends need our care and attention too...so good on ya DVSA" 👍
My rule of thumb for fog lights (I only have rear ones) is that I don't consider them necessary if I can still see the body outline of vehicles in front at twice my perceived stopping distance. I say "twice" because that allows for vehicles behind which may be travelling faster than me. That's not to say I won't already have my normal lights on (as per the conditions at the time), which will be extending the visibility of my own car to more than twice my perceived stopping distance.
I did my Ph.D. in cloud microphysics and could bore for England on this topic so I'll make just a few comments. Firstly, peoples' ability to perceive distant objects in fog varies quite considerably and has little to do with visual acuity under normal conditions so the "100m visibility" isn't set in stone. Your perception of a 100m fog and someone else's is likely to be different. The standard instrumentation for visibility uses an assumed contrast ratio perception ability for the "typical person" (google Koschmieder's law if you want to know more). Forward fog lights are better than dipped headlights for allowing the driver to see. They are almost always set low in the vehicle and this is to minimise the backscatter from the lights obscuring the objects you want to see. Backscatter is at its most intense at 180 degrees (straight back) also, by maximising the angle between the beam and the driver's eyeline, you reduce the length of the beam the driver is looking through. Anyone who has driven a Caterham (where the drivers eyeline is almost between the two headlights) in fog will know how bad backscatter is. I read a comment here from someone saying you should turn rear fogs off if you can see the headlights of the car behind. This is dangerous nonsense. Your ability to see the headlights behind does not prove that they would be able to see your rear sidelights once you have turned your rear fogs off. Backscatter from their head or fog light as well as scattered ambient light can well play a significant role in obscuring your sidelights making this anything but an "if I can see them they can see me" situation. Stick to the 100m guidelines.
Highway code Rule 226. You MUST use headlights when visibility is seriously reduced, generally when you cannot see for more than 100 metres (328 feet). You may also use front or rear fog lights but you MUST switch them off when visibility improves. Reduced visibility is not defined as fog only!
Strange that this comes up today, yesterday it was very foggy where I am and I was discussing with my wife about fog light use. She was concerned that she didn’t know which symbol was which regards front and rear fog lights. I told her it didn’t matter as she’d likely be best having both on if the lack of visibility merits it. I did, however, say that the symbols come up as warning lights and the front one will be the same colour as the sidelight and dipped beam and the rear will be a different colour. Green for front and amber for rear on our current cars, likely that’s the same in all or most UK market cars. I’ve always used foglights in very heavy spray as it is effectively very wet low lying fog, if visibility, or lack of, dictates
Well that is very small, albeit frozen, droplets... to hell with it! If we're advocating use them in rain because it's hard to see past wipers then why not.
Aside from the use of fog lights. I am in the camp where I use dipped headlights during the daylight hours between November and February mainly because daylight around these times can be poor, and on a sunny day, the sun being low in the sky, aids visibility by other road users. In any adverse weather, i do use my fog lights, but always mindful about switching off when and if the weather improves.
Very interesting channel, I instantly subscribed. It's strange how there is so much said about rear lights. But yet how oddly strange very little about front super bright HID headlights? Do they not dazzle oncoming drivers, to the point of dangerous vision recovery stabilisation time? When bright light distraction occurs, less intensity lights can be missed, or disappear. The colour temperature plays a major role here too, adding too distraction. In the early 1980s, Ford experimented with brake lights making them slightly "pink" as to distinguish between fog lights and brake lights. They obviously stopped this . Great video. At last someone looking Into the skills of driving to the highway code, other than manoeuvre skills! Thanks.
I didn't realize about using fog light in such circumstances Ashley. However, I am old enough to remember when we used to get real fog and you needed the fog lights on and slow right down to a snails pace. But these days as soon as there is the slightest mist the traffic reporters on the radio are quick to tell all motorists to put there fog lights on. This really hacks me off as on most commuter journeys the traffic is nose to tail and the fog lights as you point out dazzle and leaves stars in your eyes. When I drive in fog I have a little rule that if I see no other vehicles in my rear view mirror I switch my fog light on. As soon as I see another vehicle I switch them off. Break lights in dark wet conditions are another point where I wish motorists would remember to put the parking break on and take there foot off the break. In the past we used to have all-sorts of public information on the TV but we hardly ever see them these days and people forget about all these little things that make driving more hazardous than it should be for other road users.
Few also realise that it is law that , on a motorway , as soon as you decide that lights are needed , you MUST use dipped headlamps ; the only exception being that in foggy conditions you may use front fog lamps instead of dipped headlamps .
I use my front fogs on my local country roads at night where there is always wildlife waiting to jump out of ditches. Not bad weather permitting but it’s ideal to protect the wildlife and stops me hitting an animal.
By design front fogs are angled low, I have never been dazzled by front fogs. Don't see an issue with them being turned on.in fact some cars they are used as (turning lights) so better illumination you could argue why not have them on as much as dippid beam? Rear fogs is obviously a different story.
When riding a motorcycle, on dark evenings on a wet motorway ( M4 westbound j24 -j29) in rain, a driver in front switched on his fog lights. Suddenly I can see nothing of the road, just a bright red light in my face. I'm in the outside lane an know there is a series of bends coming up, but have no idea when to turn in now. A very frightening scenario,that I only got out of by shear luck. I had to immediately slow in that lane lane, and fortunately the driver behind was on the ball enough to do likewise. Fog lights can be life savers. They can also be lethal.
I saw a car way off in the distance with a rear fog light switched on down a dark B road and assumed it was a motorcycle with some kind of modded tail light. As I got closer I realised it was actually an old car with its rear fog light on as I saw a much dimmer tail light appear on the other side I had no idea why they did this but they sure stood out.
I absolutely detest rear foglights. The operating window in which they are of any use is so small means they are really only needed on very rare occasions, 99% of the time they simply dazzle and irritate your eyes when all the other vehicles are clearly visible with the standard sidelights. I dread driving at night in even slightly misty conditions, not because of the conditions but because of drivers putting the foglights on.
Ashley, at 6:46 you mention about turning them off if visibility improves. Which I agree with, as too many drive around all day with them on, long after the fog has cleared. However, what are your thoughts on turning the rear fog lights off, if you're in traffic and the car behind you is clearly aware of your presence. Say, you've come off an A-road, sitting at traffic lights about to head into a built up area where the car behind is likely to be following you at much less than 100m. Or in built up morning rush hour traffic that's crawling along a major road? I turn mine off, so as not to dazzle the poor sod sitting behind me. If I go back onto an emptier road, with traffic behind me over 50m, I'll switch them on again.
3:15 Something I find really annoying. I was told some cars put the brake lights on with the handbrake now when I asked why no one used their handbrake these days.
Research i read some time ago showed that automatic cars were rear ended less often than manual cars because drivers of auto cars tend to have they're brake lights on at junctions.
@@pussinboots1145 The whole reason why when I did my advanced driving course it was suggested keeping a foot on the footbrake until the car behind had stopped - then it becomes unnecessary. If there's not a car behind as you approach the lights, again, lift your foot off the brake, until you see traffic approaching, then just put it back on until they're stopped.
What's scary and concerning is the fact that many people drive in poor weather/visibility conditions with NO lights turned on at all, including night time. Just the other day a car next to me got pulled over by unmarked police vehicle for no lights on during night time...
That is the folly of dumbed down new cars with dumb drivers at the wheel . So called automatic lights , DRLs which have no accompanying rear lamps , and idiotic instrument panels which are illuminated all the time ; in a proper car , having the panel in darkness tells you you have no lights on .
That's why some economy cars built today use LED brake light and running lights for the rear, but use regular halogen bulbs for the rear-mounted fog light / lights.
It’s really simple in my eyes - if you can’t see the vehicle ahead of you because of the conditions, then put on fogs for your own safety :) If you come to a stop because of an accident or mechanical fault, you need to way more visible. Or if you are travelling at a slower speed than someone who doesn’t care for the conditions, supporting your own and others planning :)
Front fog lights are only of value in thick fog when there is too much light reflected back from the headlights. Typically this would be when the maximum sensible speed is below 30 mph and, in my opinion, they should not be used at any other time. Rear fog lights are there to show your presence to following vehicles when visibility is under 100 metres as you say but my bugbear is that, once on, they are rarely switched off even when visibility becomes perfect (again you mention that this is a requirement of the Highway Code but that doesn't seem to help. My final point concerns the etiquette of rear fog light use. They are to ensure that any following vehicles can see you so, if you are in heavy traffic, they should be switched off (similar to your brake light comment) as the vehicles behind can definitely see you and the high intensity light is both annoying and makes it harder to see brake lights. I suggest that the approach ought to be the same as high beam headlights; if someone comes the other way you dip your lights so, if someone is close behind in bad visibility, rear fog light should be turned off to improve safety.
My go to , is rule 126 stopping distance. Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop ,well within the distance you can see to be clear . To me that means you must be able to stop well within the distance you see to be clear. ie : able to stop if something is in your path , a elephant, small child , drunk person , broken down car (with or without fogg lights ) or any other reasion . We must be able to stop well within the distance we can see to be clear ! How many of us can conform to this rule literally?
I find front fog lights can be very useful on narrow B roads in any weather, as dipped beam do not project well towards the edge of the road and around corners. Bearing in mind that front fog light are set lower, nearer and therefore away from incoming drivers gaze. In fact, much less dazzling than many ridiculously aggressive xenon dipped headlights in premium cars nowadays which I have experienced being almost blinded by on occasions.
Better cars have the front fog lamps in the headlamp cluster , at the same height as the headlamps ; which makes them legal to use at any time , unlike low down ones which may only be used when visibility is seriously reduced . However , yes , I agree the wider beam can be very useful in such situations , unless you have something like a Tucker Torpedo , Citroen DS or SM with headlamps which turn with the steering to light your way round corners .
I agree with you. Here is my post. What's the difference when on a fast road, the difference between mist and fog and spray? In wet weather heavy rain for example the spray from fast moving vehicles create a mist like condition just like fog. If i can only just see the vehicle in front without the lights on. (half the time they don't have any lights on) it's time to no longer drive behind them as they can't be seen clearly. With the rear fogs on you can see and judge your distance. Remember it takes longer to stop when the ground is wet so you need more distance between you and the vehicles in front and behind. If you increase that gap and can't see the car in front because of the mist from the rain. The chances are the person behind you won't see you either. Thats when it's a sensible time to use rear fogs lights. Admittedly some people's eyesight are better than others. But what is safer, someone being able to see you or someone driving into the back of you?
@@flybobbie1449 I have my lights on pretty much constantly, the lcd display with speed etc is really dim without lights on.. I have then on even on sunny blue sky days and I've still not changed a bulb in well over a year
The “also” in rule 226 is interesting. It may be different in UK but here in New Zealand switching on fog lights automatically switches off headlights.
I would be surprised too if anyone could get rescued visibility in spray for 100meters. Fog lights rarely need to be used. It’s very annoying people using them when not needed.
As an all-weather motorcyclist, I find fog lights on cars a nuisance more than a help, usually. They're dazzling at the front worse than full beam (which is at least aligned usually), while at the back they're easily confused for brake lights. I do however think dipped lights can constantly be on for cars - they are now for most new motorcycles. Motorcycles don't usually have fog lights, some don't have hazard lights either. There's no easy answer for the dazzling effect at the front, but I think rear fog lights should actually be amber rather than brake-light red. Amber is equally bright, signals danger and cannot be confused for emergency vehicles unless they're blinking. It's also something that cyclists and motorcyclists might carry in foul conditions. PS: I don't have a B license or interest in one, but Ashley's analysis is impeccably fair and the videos entertaining as well as educational. I have to sit through video IT training often, but this is much better. I hope I'm not the only motorcyclist watching this.
But many cars only have 1 fog light and pretty much all cars have high level brake lights so it shouldn't really be a problem differentiating between fog and brake lights.
Ah yeah sure stick a blindfold on while you’re at it. If there’s heavy rain on a motorway to the point where you can’t see cars ahead, you’re gonna need to stick those rear fog lights on. The only gripe I’d have is that (at least on my car) you can’t turn the rear one on without also turning the 2 front ones on. So I’d understand if your point was about people needlessly using front ones...
I agree, rear fogs in rain are dangerous, the bright light gets scattered in the rain on the cars windscreens that are following making it harder to see what’s ahead of the car in front and distracts from brake lights.. I’ve never used rear fog lights in bad rain in the 35 or more years I’ve been driving! If drivers slowed down and kept more distance in bad weather then you wouldn’t need to used rear fog lights...
I totally agree with you on using the handbrake at traffic lights, especially at night. Near where I stay there is a set of traffic lights on a hill and it's amazing the number of drivers who sit with their foot on the brake even although their hand brake is on.
Common issue with new Cars now are the automatic hold on the foot brake. It leaves the brake light on but as people are not holding their foot down it’s as if the handbrake is on so they’re unaware. Or don’t care.. I always pull my parking brake if I’m stationary for more than 3 seconds to deactivate the brake lights. It’s a shame modern cars can’t do this automatically that a sustained period auto turns the auto hold to the parking brake.
And the “aaaargh they are blinding me” even though pointed at the ground and using the same bulb as headlights ;) And now cars use them as cornering lights - aaargh I’m blinded ;) Not allowed - fine with that Made up “aaaargh they blind me” - grrrrr Ps - I think it was the saxo VTR ads of the late 90s with blacked out windows and front fogs on that made it cool
I was driving home from work the other day and the person in the car in front turned rear fog lights on for what was a very slight mist, visibility was barely affected, plus they were in traffic, surely if you are in traffic with vehicles in front and behind you do not need rear fog lights on?
Really? Light reflects, you certainly need rear fog lights still. You can get in situations where you can’t see a vehicles rear lights in front of you. So I would say they are still essential.
@@paultomlinson528 in find that really bright headlights in heavy fog actually make it worse, it just reflects back at you, gives you a white glow in front. You obviously have to get the right dip etc. Hate driving in fog.
Turn mine on in obvious fog (common sense applied) I get behind someone turn front off, someone is behind turn rear off, and reverse as those leave. As for spray, I was taught by my driving instructor to use them if spray or weather is serious and could be to the point normal lights aren’t enough. (Mainly because I learned to drive in winter and the weather was atrocious) Edit: Just on the topic of lights, if I’m in a drive through I will go down to side lights to not shine me lights in the mirrors of the person in front (my daily is a van so high up headlights)
You should leave your rear on, just because you can see the bright headlights of the car behind in fog, they can likely only see your bright red fog light. You turn that off and the dim red light of your rear lights might become invisible for them to see. In fog, keep them on.
They dim at night if the headlights are turned on, they should only blind you if the driver is driving with their lights off as they are meant to be super bright during the day to be of any use.
I was a motorcyclist for many years before I learnt to drive a car, and I hated fog lights in spray or rain. I found that because visors don't have wipers (unless someone has invented them since), all you could see was red with fog lights in spray. In fog you can clear your visor regularly with your hand but in spray or rain you can't keep up with the moisture. I'll stick to ordinary full lights in spray for the sake of other motorcyclists - seeing nothing but red glare is frightening. Opening the visor doesn't help because your eyes fill with rain and fine grit.
Yeah it takes a LOT of drizzle to reduce visibility below 100 metres. I've been in fog which didn't even reduce visibility enough to merit the use of fog lights so I dread to think how hard it would have to be raining to necessitate their use.
In the Netherlands we've slowly but steadily replaced the top layer of all the highways with a layer that is highly permeable for water. The old stuff will have rain stay on top and cars would splash it up in a very fine fog like spray. Since that is no longer the case on most roads, using fog lights in the Netherlands is not allowed unless the visibilty is lower than 50 meters. This does not include rainy conditions anymore.
As Derby doesn't really get much in the way of thick fog, the only time I ever seem to use the front fog lights (no DRL on my 10 plate Ford) is either in very heavy spray on the M1, or when it is snowing (and I don't mean light snow, I mean thick flakes). Rear fog lights....rarely use. I think over the 19yrs I have been driving, I have only ever used my rear fog lights once.
@@airplanejack Roadcraft is well worth reading but IAM instructors sometimes want to teach you the whole book including the fast overtakes that Reg would only teach to police drivers. I failed it by not overtaking the car in front of me which was making reasonable progress anyway.
@@andyalder7910 I failed because my tester told me I didnt beep at a parent when there child was at the crossing and they were 'not paying attention' it's not my job to say who's good or bad at parenting!
I use rear fogs if conditions mean normal lights are hard to see from the spray because it makes me easier to see, more on the motorways and high speed roads than anywhere else. Visibility without vehicles is over 100 meters but the spray obscures the lights. Another trick for spray, given the appropriate light conditions, is to wear polarised glasses. Fog light issue may be caused because deteriorating conditions are much easier to notice "oh I can't see as well now" vs when they improve so it's having that reminder that can be a challenge. If visibility is poor, gotta be prepared to be turning them on and off as appropriate as you would with main beams
I don't mind seeing cars driving around with fog lights on during good visibility conditions, it alerts me that there's an idiot on the road so I'd better keep my distance 😃
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
The issue isn't when people decide to turn fog lights on, its when they forget to turn them off
Almost every car turns them off when you stop the car or turn the sidelights/ main lights off. A car would have to have a physical on/off switch even vauxhall did away with them in 1991
@@chrishart8548 Yes, however, I've seen a lot of people driving around with front and rear fog lights on when there hasn't been poor visibility driving conditions for weeks.
There is a light on the dashboard indicating if they are on?
@@rogerwilco2 On modern cars yes but some older cars had the warning light on the switch which in the case of some Vauxhalls was to right of and below the level of the steering column.
Trust me, having a knob with no lights whatsoever in thick fog is worse
General rule of thumb for rear fog lights......
Consider them ‘Very low visibility lights’
If you can see the cars behind you, then they can see you, so switch your rear fogs OFF’
I do agree, but this is not always the case. think of the situation were the sun is very low and right in front of you, now add spray or mist. you will be able to see what is behind you a lot better than what is in front of you. so assuming the car behind you can see you as well as you can see him doesn't apply to every situation.
Errr, no - definitely not. The cars behind you have headlights for you to see them by. All they have is your relatively dim side lights to see you by.
The correct test is to look at the cars *in front* of you. Can you see them perfectly well without rear fog lights? If so, then turn yours off.
Or to put it another way - ask yourself whether you'd prefer the cars in front of you to have rear fog lights on or off. Do the same.
Agree with you John. Ive just read your post. This is what I put elsewhere
What's the difference when on a fast road, the difference between mist and fog and spray?
In wet weather heavy rain for example the spray from fast moving vehicles create a mist like condition just like fog. If i can only just see the vehicle in front without the lights on. (half the time they don't have any lights on) it's time to no longer drive behind them as they can't be seen clearly. With the rear fogs on you can see and judge your distance. Remember it takes longer to stop when the ground is wet so you need more distance between you and the vehicles in front and behind. If you increase that gap and can't see the car in front because of the mist from the rain. The chances are the person behind you won't see you either. Thats when it's a sensible time to use rear fogs lights. Admittedly some people's eyesight are better than others. But what is safer, someone being able to see you or someone driving into the back of you?
@@johnwinters4201
You make a fair additional point. Of course you can balance your opinion based on the cars in front, and behind 👍🏻
The distances are rarely the same though, so it’s always a moving feast.
Truth is though, is traffic, where there are cars fore and aft, it’s incredibly rare to need fog lights at all. Once everyone is line astern at a steady speed, that’s usually slower than normal.
Have you ever driven in spray on the motorway, when the sun then comes out?
Low visibility for sure. However, adding fog lights to that mix, just blinds everyone and does a very good job of disguising brake lights! It can be even worse in spray at night 👀
How about this……
If you are ever in a compromised visibility situation, with NO visible traffic behind, then ALWAYS run your rear fog light.
IF a VEHICLE catches you up, sees you and holds station with your speed, then switch off.
All I know is I now have green dots in my vision due to driving for several miles behind a woman with her fog lights on.
MIST is not FOG.
What’s more is if a vehicle behind you flashes you then be considerate enough to check to see if they’re warning you about a potential hazardous condition regarding your vehicle or as in this case misuse of vehicle lights.
Was on the M5 and M42 in some nasty spray last Sunday, couldn't see 50m in front or behind. Felt like I was the only one with my rear fog and dipped headlights on and quite a few cars tore past me with no lights on at all (it was 10am!). Felt like I was doing something wrong but this has cleared that up!
Yeah, if you're struggling to see the lights of cars in front without fog lights then there's no way it's not appropriate to use yours. The last time I was in spray that heavy I was kind of amazed how few people used theirs.
if you can't see 50m in front then you all should be driving at less than 40mph, then fog lights aren't needed. The whole fog light thing is BS, it's an excuse to keep driving at a higher speed that is demonstrably not safe even with fog lights.
@@ynotnilknarf39 Yes , you should be at reduced speed , but if following traffic is not at reduced speed , that is all the more reason to make yourself as highly visible as you can by turning on your rear fog lamp . Otherwise you will be rear ended - probably sooner rather than later .
@@derekheeps1244 no it isn't, you're removing the onus of responsibility to those behind and onto those in front. This is how RTCs increase, like putting onus of not getting killed onto cyclists by forcing hi-vis and helmets, neither of which work to increase safety and in fact decrease safet (as does helmet wearing in an sport/activity and workplace)
Similarly onus on pedestrians to get out the way. Things like Green Cross Code only allowed motorists to act with greater aggressiveness and took greater risks with the expectation that kids/peds would get out their way. No mistakes allowed or you were blamed for getting injured/killed this still continues today. This victim blaming BS is why things have not improved one iota and continue to get worse despite all the tech/driver aids, bigger tyres, bigger brakes and brighter lights.
I've been in Health and Safety for almost three decades, the lies and BS spewed within the industry mask the dangers of so called PPE and mitigation factors that are alleged to reduce incidents. Same with seatbelts and so much more.
@@derekheeps1244 the overall affect is by complying you contnually rely on this and the overall effect is worse for everyone longer term. I see this all the time in Health and Safety, same for PPE. people think it's good but it isn't, it shows detrimental outcomes at individual and population levels. Helmets, Hi-vis, seatbelts etc, all cause more harm than if people simply took more care. PPE induces greater risk taking and overcomes any notional benefit PPE might afford, more often than not, PPE fails miserably
3:19 that’s it, rule 114, you must not use any lights in a way which would dazzle or cause discomfort to other road users, including pedestrians, cyclists and horse riders, in stationary queues of traffic, drivers should apply the parking brake and, once the following traffic has stopped, take their foot off the footbrake to deactivate the vehicle brake lights, this will minimise glare to road users behind until the traffic moves again’, I always do this, even in good weather, it’s a very good habit to get into.
I was taught to use them if visibility was below 100metres, which is actually quite a rare occurance, I was also advised that its maybe a good idea to turn them off if you aren't the last vehicle in a queue so you don't dazzle the driver behind. Obviously after I've ascertained that they have actually seen me and matched my speed.
I was taught to use the handbrake when at traffic lights.
I now resent everyone who sits with their foot on the brake, for more than a minute when it is a busy staggered junction with lots of lights, and railway lines, especially at night in the glare. The glare is so annoying.
It is also best in the case of someone rear-ending you.
Lights in general are too bright. LED lights are too efficient and there is barely any difference between dipped beam and full.
All new cars with automatic gearbox have constant brake lights on even when you take foot off.
Just dazzle them back with the main beam!
Even without the dazzle, it baffles me why people sit with their foot on the brake.
I'll sit with foot on the brakes at a junction if there is no-one behind me, as soon as I see someone approaching behind I'll switch to handbrake and foot off.
The correct way at traffic lights. Is to put on your handbrake and keep your foot on the foot break to light your break lights. If there is no one behind you. When a car approaches from behind you and comes to stop behind you. Then you take your foot off the break pedle to switch off the break lights to not dazzle them. Then realise your handbrake when you want to move off.
It's not good when fog lights are being used in heavy, slow traffic.
Fog lights are actually amazing when you do get to use them. I've been in weather where I'm following floating red spots in the distance.. quite spooky. No way would I have known cars were there otherwise.
Rear fog light on my car is insane very bright red LED that is brighter than most LED brake lights. I've seen other models of my car in foggy conditions and it does stand out.
There's a worse lighting issue. I see drivers at night driving on daytime running lights, so no rear lights.
I see that also, but I put 50 % on manufacturers for not giving cars rear ones, obviously manufacturers are too thick it seams
@@darronian4951 Absolutely I think it was 2014 when day running lights became mandatory to try and improve safety, trying to copy Volvo a manufacturer with one of the best safety records but for some reason only front running lights where mandated Volvo have had front and rear for many years.
Even if the manufacturers didn't illuminate the dash panel with the day running lights, at least then when it got dark the driver would have an obvious indication their headlamps are not on.
My 12 year old bmw has day time running lights and its front and back so I don't even know why manufacturers changed to front only
@@ChrisTrackninja thats easy, fewer components, cheaper to make.
@@bulwinkle The manufacturers lobbied the EU hard to make it front only as they claim it reduces the CO2 output. Scandinavian countries which have had a law firm decades requiring front and rear DRLs still have them. The parts are still in place - it's just a setting in the car's computer. I've set mine (on various VW group cars) to match the Scandinavian settings.
Fog lights infuriate me - they make me see red
Ho, ho. 😂😳🙄
red mist..
Tried to catch fog the other day, but I mist.
They're traffic lights.
They make me see white ^_^
I'm glad somebody has mentioned being dazzled by brake lights while queuing at signals. I've been sat behind someone with brake lights on loads of times and thought it probably wasn't right as their lights were dazzling me. Glad it's actually a 'thing' and not just something I don't like!
Oh man some of these (new then) HIDs and newer LEDs are just insanely bright. For the same wattage they can produce nearly double if not far more lumens as conventional incandescent bulbs.
I've noticed it's the aftermarket kits that are often way too bright, the OEM LEDs these days seem to not be too crazy compared to the DIY hack jobs you'd expect to see in a clandestine indoor grow op instead of vehicle lights.
I recently bought a new car and noticed something strange. The dipped headlights where almost indistinguishable from the full beams. Turns out there's a switch below the steering wheel that changes the angle of the headlights for when the car is heavily loaded and of course it was in the heavily loaded position.
:/
Well said!
Made worse by people not using their hand brake like they used, I blame hill start assist.
@@ethelmini I've just got a new (to me!) car and it has auto stop/start. If I hold the clutch and brake, it stays off. If I release the brake and use the handbrake, the engine comes back on. I'm hoping there's a way to change that as I'm old skool enough to not trust the hill start assist so still manage that myself.
And as to the fog lights, I have used them on motorways before when the rain was so bad that everyone slowed to 30mph, and then switched them back off once the squall ended. Other than that, it's foggy only.
Yes , if stopped after dark for more than a few seconds with someone behind , select park and take foot off brakes .
I see people can’t even use indicators, they probably don’t even know they have fog lights.
Geese we are devolving into American drivers.
Stupid topic dipped headlights will do. there should be no need for fog lights on any vehicle. Fog lights give idiots a false sense of security. The law covers this in that you should not exceed the speed at which you can stop in the distance that you can see to be clear. That means that if you hit anything that you say did not have lights on in fog you are breaking the law.
Well not all cars have them…
@@sidneyeaston6927 WRONG : for lights or lamps have a completely different light dispersal pattern and are designed to throw out a low wide beam which illuminates the road surface in front of and to the sides of your car WITHOUT a lot of reflected glare back in your face , which you will get from dipped headlamps in fog at night . Now you know .
Lol! I'm a professional hgv driver. I have a 2001 wj jeep. After 3 years, I found the fog light switch!!!!!
I loved your comment about applying the hand brake in stationary traffic. I find these days that hardly anyone uses their handbrake in traffic, in fact two of my daughters who had lessons with different instructors were both taught to use their foot brake only. I only found this out by pure chance when I took my middle daughter out when she was learning and I had to ask her why she wasn't using her handbrake at the lights. So now you've raised the matter of handbrake use, who is correct..me who has been driving for 30+ years or my daughter's with less then 3 years driving experience. Thanks
I know it's quite surprising. I still use my handbrake. I was told to when I was learning, I'm in my forties now. And I was taught by and old guy in, Metro school of motoring. Over 25years ago. He said if some hits you from behind you have less chance of hitting the persons car in front if your handbrake is applied.
But yeah I see so many red light brakes on. Even at level crossings when we are told to switch the engine off. 🤯
They are just happy to leave the engine running and pollute the air and waste fuel. 🙄
I'm not sure if you're European or not but here in the states on both manual and automatics some cars don't even have your normal handbrake anymore, and unfortunately the "hand" brake and release are usually located in some odd spot that's a total PITA and foot operated. So basically everyone here just holds their foot on the brake aside from a select few.
When I did have a vehicle with a conventional handbrake I did use it often when stopped in heavy seasonal traffic for ten plus minutes at a time and for the extremely rare hill launch in south Florida. My current truck has the annoying foot operated kind with a release I gotta contort to grab easily and I honestly can't be bothered with the gymnastics behind using it, not in traffic or even the mountains now that im in the Rockies. My legs are too long for my cab with the seat all the way back and my knee jams the release into the dash, but i can't hold my clutch without tilting my knee to the door or I hit my dash lol. I'd rather heel toe it tbh.
My new car will have an automatic (hand brake) it comes on as soon as you put the car in park not sure about neutral yet, no handle to pull up
If it causes discomfort to others behind , then use Park or parking brake if in a manual vehicle ; if no one close behind , or in daylight when no discomfort will be caused , hold vehicle on service brake until time to move off .
@@viciousvicious1340 Stopping and starting the engine unnecessarily can not only waste more fuel than keeping it running for a few minutes , but it becomes a nuisance for others when we all have to wait for the unready to restart their engines , which sometimes fail to restart , and reduces the numbers of people who get through a phase of the traffic lights . If I am next to one of these cars which stall themselves at lights , I am always 100 yes down the road by the time they move off . They are an utter waste of time .
The amount of time i see people put Rear fog lights on in rain. Just what we need a really bright red light reflecting off the shiny water.
I on the other hand have only ever heard of rear fog lights for the first time reading these comments tonight, never seen or heard of such a thing here in the US though they sound somewhat similar to rear/side facing off road lights.
In fairness , the rules have changed over the years . At one time RVLR did state that fog lights may only be used when visibility was reduced to less than 100m BY FOG OR FALLING SNOW . That has since been changed to simply 'when visibility is seriously reduced' , and indeed circumstances such as heavy rain or spray , even smoke , can be valid reasons to use them ( comes down to the old advice of see and be seen ) . It is fair to qualify this further , though , with a couple of further comments , particularly relating to use of fog lights ( front and rear ) after dark .The quoted section of HC stated that in reduced visibility you MUST use dipped headlamps , however , in foggy conditions after dark , you MAY use front for lamps INSTEAD of dipped headlamps : this is because the different dispersal pattern of front fog lamps throws out a low wide beam which illuminates the road surface ahead WITHOUT reflecting light back in the fog as dipped headlamps would . Second point re using rear fog lamps at night : all very well if for fog or heavy falling snow , but please NOT for rain or spray as that will just dazzle following drivers who are already having a hard time seeing ahead and should be at reduced speed anyway .
The old 'public service announcement' as they used to be called on the telly back in the 70's stated that you shouldn't use fog lights in the rain because they are brighter than your brake lights and cars following you would have an hard time seeing your brake lights through the rain on their screen as well as your fog lights drowning out your brake lights (so to speak), but having said that cars back then just had 1 cluster of lights i.e. back, brake, indicator and fog light (+reverse if you had a decent motor) all in one place, now days the light are all over the place so depending on what vehicle you have your fog lights could be as much as a meter/yard from your brake lights so maybe wouldn't 'drown out' the brake lights.
When I was in the police service some decades ago we followed that principal of law that they were only to used in fog and falling snow and not to be used just in wet weather conditions as the rear fog light/s being as bright as a brake lights they could be mistaken for them or make vision difficult for others behind to see without being effected by glare..
@@SoloMickyB The more enlightened manufacturers also fit a single rear fog lamp rather than a pair , precisely because two rear fog lamps can so easily be mistaken for brake lights - some countries do not permit this though .
Fog lights, apparently, let you travel at far above speed limits in really poor weather. Then, if left on, everyone knows how poor your driving is.
I think 80% of drivers don't know when to use them (100m rule). They see a tiny patch of fog and think "oh, it's foggy, I'll put my fog lights on" then leave them switched on for a week.
In some countries in Europe you have to use dipped headlights when it's raining, not only that the speed limit on the motorway is reduced by 10kmph. I think that rule should be brought in here.
Conditions are rarely that bad you need to use fog lights.
Yep, a bit of mist doesn't reduce visibility to the point of needing fog lights. Neither does spray. It would need to be a torrential downpour for fog lights to be necessary, and we simply do not have the right climate for that in England.
You forgot to mention, missuse of fog lights is fined on spot. As well as driving with side lights only is ilegal and you get fined.
@@marekvyhnicka7172 - it might be but how often does that get enforced?
Where do you live ? Thick fog ( 20m or less visibility ) is an occurrence several times a year here in Scotland .
@@marekvyhnicka7172 Side lights only is perfectly legal on urban streets with speed limits not higher than 30 mph . Read up on your RVLR .
There's a section of an M1 around Hemel Hempstead that is notorious for spray due to poor drainage. On that part I regularly put front and rear fogs on as do lots of other drivers, but what I tend to do is only use the rear one if I'm at the end of a queue, once I see some headlights catching me I will turn them off soon to avoid dazzle. Plus I've let them know what my fogs look like.
If only everyone else switched them off when a car is behind or overtaking.
Ashley, thanks for checking up on this and sharing the results.
This is all such sensible advice. And it proves that one should use discretion but clearly some people don;t even know what that word means! My father years ago said he wished drivers wouldn't use side-lights in daytime fog. The reason he said was because they are not bright enough or large enough to penetrate the fog very far ahead and in fog you can see the body of a vehicle as you close on it, before you see its side-lights. But still thousands of drivers use side-lights or no lights at all in fog. I read somewhere that a driver didn't use his lights in daytime driving because he thought it used up electricity and flattened his battery. When I heard that, despair set in|!
As always, an excellent, clear explanation of the rules. Regarding glare caused by fog lights however, I find oncoming vehicles with Xenon lights far more destructive to vision than vehicles who have their front fog lights on. This is especially true in country lanes where, in my view, Xenon lights are downright dangerous to other road users.
The low angle of incidence against a wet road surface can make low mounted fog lamps more of an annoyance since they reflect over a greater distance than headlamps which are higher up ; fog lamps mounted at the same height as the headlamps don't cause this problem . Again it comes down to poor car design .
For rear fogs, its not just about how far you can see in heavy spray, but how far you can be seen from. It is quite possible that you can see a mile, but in a cloud of spray your normal tail lights, or no lights at all may not be seen at all in the cloud.
Furthermore , you may have adjusted your speed such that you can stop sales in the limited distance you can see to be clear , but following drivers may be approaching at much higher speeds and be unable to stop by the time they do see you , UNLESS you have your high intensity rear warning lamp on ( to give it its correct name ) .
I read the title of the video as, "Fog without fog." I was like, "What?" Wow. I have been working too hard for too long, lol. I need to rest. 😂🤦 Great video, Ashley.
That's an accurate title in a way. The weather needn't be foggy for us to experience the same hazard from road spray.
All modern Cars switch on the front Foglights automatically, to warn other drivers that there is an idiot behind the wheel.
I'm not sure how it works.
Spot on, mate!
yes but they are not called "FOG LIGHTS" now called DAY TIME RUNNING LIGHTS!
@@Mrfort Aha yes new cars do have daytime Running lights , but they are not fog lights mentioned here. I would be interested if these new Daytime lights do cause glare for the driver as they reflect off the fog back to the Drivers eyes.
@@maxusboostus well in fog, you should have you’re dipped headlights on anyway. This dims the DRLs thus not imposing a problem
@@davidbest1 Ah, that's good. I've not driven anything with DRLs so have not experienced it. Nice that they do dim them. Thanks.
I only ever use my rear fog lights during spray and thick fog. However, I do like to use my front fog lights on dark and narrow country roads to give me a little bit more light output as well as lighting up the verges more; I switch Them off if I see oncoming traffic though. Tell me what your opinion is on that Ashely, I'm interested to know.
I think this is fine, I used to do the same on my Subaru, treat it like my main beam though, and switched them off to not dazzle oncoming traffic. The more light you can throw forward the better on dark roads for me, as long as nobody has to suffer blindness!
The same 100 yard visibility rule applies to front fog lights as well as rear.
if it's to help visibility on verges, which is where deer and other animals stand waiting to run into the road, and they get turned off with oncoming cars, I'm all in for it.
My car is 18 years old and fairly rare so parts are getting harder to find. If I can avoid damage at all costs, I will and I will be adopting this idea in my own driving too!
Does foglights blind other drivers?
Yes, but how quickly do you turn them off. Are they always off for every car you encounter around a bend. It's hard enough to get the high beams off in time and they have a dedicated quick change mechanism. I have been dazzled by countless people driving with fog lights as ancillary light sources.
In germany you are allowed to use the front foglights in bad weather conditions but the rear one is only for fog with a visibility under 50 metres. You are also restricted to drive 30 kph max under those conditions.
Fascinating how it is in different countries
Yes , it would simplify things if traffic laws were harmonised across Europe , since people often drive from one country to another and may not always be familiar with the law in each country . I have driven many times in Germany but was not familiar with that particular law .
Another unusual one is that in Belgium it is unlawful to use cruise control when it is raining !
@@derekheeps1244 That Belgium one is kinda weird but I guess its there to make sure you control the car completely yourself on wet roads..?
Its not just fog lights that dazzle, most car manufactures are using ultra high power LEDs or Xrypton lights, and the lensing is so accurate, they meet al the legal criteria but going over even a small bump means you get flashed or flash someone, then they flash back, and its all down hill from there.
Even a slight bend in the road means you get dazzled from on coming cars.
The manufactures need to do a lot more analysis on this, its not just as simple as fitting ever more powerful lights.
@Nicolla Hannah Butterfield They (some) do have auto adjust, works off a level sensor ie accelerometer due to gravity. But this still doesn't do it. Lights are too bright and to direct, old lamps used to have a fading area.
@Nicolla Hannah Butterfield You are right, but these are not old cars that need attention, these are 1 -2 years old vehicles, the prismatic angles are just too accurate, early 90s when LEDS were new -ish in cars it was a comp between manufactures to say how all the light was placed on the road and not scattered, except now they are so bright (forget watts, its Lumens) and accurate, just try it, put lights on (not full beam) walk 100m down the road and slowly drop to the ground whilst looking at the light, at some point it will hurt.
It is this that I think is dangerous.
I have been driving since 1974 and have ysed my foglights less than 20 times probably. I go on the motorway where there may a bit of mist and half a mile if visibility and there's some berk with rear foglights on. Only in really poor visibility will I put my foglights on. In reality, in the UK we really don't have the weather to need foglights thst often.
Absolutely. It depends on the climate where you live. In the U.S. there are people the live in mountain regions where fog can last well into the day. Other places in the U.S. may have only 10 days of fog per year. And even then it only lasts for a short time during the early morning hours.
Some regions can have white-out or gray-outs during a severe thunderstorm when visibility can be lost completely. I'm talking about zero visibility.
Great video. Fogs on in heavy rain is something I didn't know about. Last week I fitted some more expensive, brighter halogen bulbs as the ones aI had before were not great. I had a look into retro fitting a HID/LED kit but they are now illegal and I can understand why. If they are not fitted correctly then the beam could be scattered in directions that it shouldn't and badly blind other road users.
Which is unfortunately something that all cars made after 2nd half of 2018 also seem to do. I care much less about people using their front Foglights for a Sporty look or whatever than I do people in new Audi/Merc/BMW/Transits/HGV, blinding the living hell out of me, both from the opposite side of the road as well as from behind (even in different lanes, multiple cars back!). Madness.
@@EvoBeard Laser lights and matrix lights do not work in single-lane traffic regardless of all the marketing, might as well drive around with high beams on.
@@EvoBeard bmw oem xenons are ok they sort of turn purple at the point of glare... mercedes on the other hand you need a welding mask to drive.
As long as they are EU certified and correctly fitted , they are legal . So many are neither .
With my car and others with light controls on the indicator stalk (Toyota is my experience of it), if we have our back fog lights on then because of poor conditions then we have to have our front ones on too. It’s the way the switch work. 1st click front fogs, 2nd position front and rear. That’s why some people drive with them on. Of course that doesn’t explain people who drive with them on in normal / good driving conditions. But in spray conditions that’ll be why
I totally agree it's the same with my Peugeot.
A lot of drivers don’t correctly use their lights.
In rain and dusk or dawn it’s surprising how many drivers only have side lights or no lights.
Regarding fog lights, their are the ones who drive around with front fogs on all the time and then the ones who light up the rear fog lights in the slightest miss.
One of my biggest thing really annoys me is, drivers sitting with their foot on the brake, blinding the driver behind, it is very difficult to avert your eyes away. The answer is simple, “PUT YOUR HANDBRAKE ON”
Modern auto lights cause a lot of problems too.. The dash lights up so people assume that they are lit up, the amount of cars you see now in the dark with no lights on at the back is ridiculous
Don't you have to keep your foot on the brake on automatics to stop them creeping? Not sure as I have never driven an auto!
@@12crepello Correct, you have to keep your foot on the brake unless you switch into parking on the shifter, a rather poor idea if you're waiting to move off.
Absolutely, I use the rule wipers on, dipped lights on. No one can plead they didn’t see you because of the rain.
@@heinrichb Not always the case. My VW (2014 model Passat) has a parking brake which is easy to operate yet allows the auto box to be left in Drive. As soon as I press the accelerator the parking brake is released automatically and off I go.
I totally agree with this. One thing, most cars have 1x rear fog lamp. I assume this is to differentiate a singular fog lamp from a pair of brake lights.
Yet another well researched informative video👍👍
I have two. If there's one, it's often paired with a single reverse light. The regulations would make such left hand drive vehicles illegal to register here plus one is easier to obscure & make you twice a vulnerable to bulb failure.
Best if they're not part of the main light cluster.
exactly - and shows which manufacturers actually think about road safety and take it seriously .
@@ethelmini No - the regulations state that a rear fog lamp must be fitted to the offside of the vehicle , which on a LHD vehicle is the left side - perfectly compliant . Two rear fog lamps are too easily mistaken for brake lamps
Using fog lights in ALL conditions is at epidemic levels in Derby....
I've got nowhere to compare it to but it does seem bad. Only started driving in August and the last few weeks I've been dazzled numerous times, even having an SUV's lights seared in to my vision for a few minutes after passing them.
It's everywhere mate. Here in Norfolk/Suffolk too.
No wonder they call it an inbred nation.
Why do they do that?
It's a "mist"ery and I haven't got the foggiest idea why?
@@R33Racer ffs I thought it was unique to the webbed feet brigade from Derby...
@@BibTheBoulderTheOriginalOne Afraid not chap.
Ref FRONT FOG lamps, nowadays the front (fog) lamps are regarded as "driving lamps" makes vehicle easier to see, i believe we inherited it from swedan (volvo) where its regarded as a safety feature, with my car the driving lamps come on when you turn the ignition on , ( yes you can disable them).
In Sweden, we are allowed to use foglights instead of headlights or DRL during the day, in all weather
This video was concerning rear fog lights. We can have front fog lights on at any time though.
@@whichwasher2007 Nope, front fog lights can only be on when visibility is reduced.
Driving lights are a separate thing though, even when they often go in the same place on the car
People have no idea about how and when to use foglights. Most of them also have no idea how to turn them off.
In heavy spray on the motorway where in places puddles can form then using front fog lights can actually help in spotting the outer edges of the lane and in my case over the weekend helped me spot potential hazards that could have caused me to lose control by hitting standing water at speed. It still amazes me how close motorists want to get to my tailgate in very poor weather.
With all the traffic now, cars don't need fog lights! There is never a time when a car is over 100 feet from you! Give a car 10 feet and the bugger will pull in front of you!
That may well be the case where you live. It's certainly not the case in winter in rural areas.
100 metres, which is closer to 300 feet.
@Brian Gower I may change my mind when I do the Scottish NC500, in the fog!!!!😆
That makes perfect sense. One thing that I would mention, right or wrong, is this.....
When driving in a built up area, particularly in traffic, I prefer not to use rear foglights. Brake lights might not be noticed.
Your thoughts on this, Ashley, would be much appreciated.
On a parting note....... Fools Rush In...... Stay safe everyone 👍👍
REAR foglights should definitely only be used when you have to. For example, if it is actually really foggy.
Hmm. Interesting. I am very curious what Ashley thinks of this too.
I just wish people would put dipped light on when it's poor visibility , raining or it's dark the number who don't is ridiculous.
Don’t understand why people don’t use them 24/7 in general.
Every car I’ve seen with DRLs only has them at the front and they’re ghosts from behind.
Then the ones without DRLs and no lights on are just asking for accidents.
That does my head in.I know in Denmark its a legal requirement to use your headlights at all times.
The daytime running lights need upgraded to include the rear.
I know right 🙄 anyone would think they cost money to have lit!
In the past couple of weeks the weather has been pretty poor. I've seen people with no lights on at all in thick fog and also people using foglights in clear conditions. Both ends of the scale! I also knew someone who would put their front foglights on to look "cool" but this also put the rear foglights on too...
I've used my rear foglight on the motorway in torrential rain. And it was actually a lot better to drive in if other drivers had theirs on too as they were much easier to see!
It doesn’t matter *why* visibility is reduced. As long as it is under 100m, fog lights are perfectly legal to use.
Generally, I won’t use rear fog lights if I can see the headlights of the car behind, just so I’m not dazzling them.
If visibility is low enough to require me to slow down because of it, then they go on and stay on.
One irritating thing I’ve found with my car, is that I can have front fog lights & side lights on (necessary when visibility is so low that the dipped beam reflects back, further reducing visibility) but as soon as I switch the rear fog light on, it forces the headlights on. Great, I’m visible from behind, but I can’t see to go forwards, so I often don’t bother with the rear fog light at all
The 100m figure is not law ; it is just guidance and an individual driver can determine when they consider visibility to be seriously reduced . The 100m figure used to be in RVLR but was removed years ago to be replaced by the qualitative term 'serious reduced' .
Being unable to have front and rear fog lamps on without headlamps is poor design and dangerous .
As a biker we suffer when cars have rear fog lights on when not in fog but at night in the rain or wet conditions even with visibility more that 100m. basically filling your visor with red sparkle
6:04, 6:10 Lifesaver! One of the most important driving skills..
Agreed - it could perhaps be stressed though that ideally - it's a head turn and not a body turn - inexperienced drivers who turn their body with their head will often also turn the wheel at the same time, even only slightly. It's mostly for checking blind spot before moving out as the mirror's should be properly adjusted, and peripheral vision being a thing, to account for anyone else.
Catch them learner riders who like to either tailgate or sit in your blind spot!
The Dvsa response says that fog lights should be used if they help with the drivers visibility.
This would apply to the use of front fog lights but does not mention when rear fog lights should be used.
Therefore I don't think the DVSA email is definitive when it comes to the use of rear fog lights
Doesn't it mean also your visibility to other road users. Front fog lights help to see and rear help to be seen.
@@tracyrain4941 yes to see or be seen but the DVSA response mentions one but not the other so seems to be referring to front lights not the rear
My argument has always been " if its foggy/rainy enough to be using fog lights, then why the fk are you still driving at 70/80/90 mph ??"
TBH I wasnt aware of the exact wording regarding fog light use, but have always worked on the theory that if I cant see the guy in front, the guy behind cant see me - so I'll switch on fog lights....its just common sense & experience really.
There are certain makes of car that often have fog lights on several hours or even days after the fog has cleared - car makers need to redisign the switching systems so that when the headlights or ignition is turned off the fog lights are also turned off ( and reset so that on the next use of the car they don't autpmatically come on again)
In most cars (at least in my two Peugeot's, one from the mid 90's!) if you switch the engine off, or the lights off, the fog lights switch off. I recently saw someone in the exact same model as me with their fogs on. That donut was switching on the fog lights on EVERY time he set off and I suspect most of the other drivers do as well!
I used my front and rear fog lights in a torrential down poor on the motorway late at night. The motorway was hardly lit and the rain made it almost impossible to see any car, I totally agree with this. I'd much rather see the vehicle in front. And also, for truck drivers, I use my front fogs in the rain as trying to see people in your side mirrors is like looking at a wall. From experience driving trucks etc
07:40 I see so many people with just front fog lights on and no headlights, even in clear weather. Complete tools!
Are you sure that they're front fogs and not "day time running lights"?
Prob DRL...to have fog lights on you need to have headlights on as well-at least in the cars I have owned.
@@davidrumming4734 most cars, you have at least side lights on to activate for lights
I see lots with side lights on and fog lights, seems to be a thing these days
I do sometimes wonder if they do it to show everyone they've got foglights fitted. In which case why don't they make a plaster of paris mould of their penis, and mount on the grille between those same foglights.....
First time I drove in USA, regulations stated headlights must be on if wipers are used. I've continued to do this ever since, makes so much sense.
"This was the DVSA's response..." (Catsan advert comes on) "Clearly not the response I was expecting, but our furry friends need our care and attention too...so good on ya DVSA" 👍
Says the video isn’t scripted but the timing of the advert says otherwise
For me it was "5, 4, 3, 2, 1 - Thunderbirds are go!" for the Britbox ad haha
Hehe love it 😆👍
At least the cat San helps keep down the spray well from the Tom's
My rule of thumb for fog lights (I only have rear ones) is that I don't consider them necessary if I can still see the body outline of vehicles in front at twice my perceived stopping distance. I say "twice" because that allows for vehicles behind which may be travelling faster than me. That's not to say I won't already have my normal lights on (as per the conditions at the time), which will be extending the visibility of my own car to more than twice my perceived stopping distance.
rule 226 visability below 100m. visibility is the key word
I did my Ph.D. in cloud microphysics and could bore for England on this topic so I'll make just a few comments. Firstly, peoples' ability to perceive distant objects in fog varies quite considerably and has little to do with visual acuity under normal conditions so the "100m visibility" isn't set in stone. Your perception of a 100m fog and someone else's is likely to be different. The standard instrumentation for visibility uses an assumed contrast ratio perception ability for the "typical person" (google Koschmieder's law if you want to know more).
Forward fog lights are better than dipped headlights for allowing the driver to see. They are almost always set low in the vehicle and this is to minimise the backscatter from the lights obscuring the objects you want to see. Backscatter is at its most intense at 180 degrees (straight back) also, by maximising the angle between the beam and the driver's eyeline, you reduce the length of the beam the driver is looking through. Anyone who has driven a Caterham (where the drivers eyeline is almost between the two headlights) in fog will know how bad backscatter is.
I read a comment here from someone saying you should turn rear fogs off if you can see the headlights of the car behind. This is dangerous nonsense. Your ability to see the headlights behind does not prove that they would be able to see your rear sidelights once you have turned your rear fogs off. Backscatter from their head or fog light as well as scattered ambient light can well play a significant role in obscuring your sidelights making this anything but an "if I can see them they can see me" situation. Stick to the 100m guidelines.
For some reason I've got Cuddly Toy by Roachford in my head now. Good video as always 👍
Highway code
Rule 226. You MUST use headlights when visibility is seriously reduced, generally when you cannot see for more than 100 metres (328 feet). You may also use front or rear fog lights but you MUST switch them off when visibility improves.
Reduced visibility is not defined as fog only!
I’ve never used the fog lights on any of my cars.
Strange that this comes up today, yesterday it was very foggy where I am and I was discussing with my wife about fog light use. She was concerned that she didn’t know which symbol was which regards front and rear fog lights. I told her it didn’t matter as she’d likely be best having both on if the lack of visibility merits it. I did, however, say that the symbols come up as warning lights and the front one will be the same colour as the sidelight and dipped beam and the rear will be a different colour. Green for front and amber for rear on our current cars, likely that’s the same in all or most UK market cars.
I’ve always used foglights in very heavy spray as it is effectively very wet low lying fog, if visibility, or lack of, dictates
Would also make sense to use fog lights in very heavy falling snow...
Well that is very small, albeit frozen, droplets... to hell with it! If we're advocating use them in rain because it's hard to see past wipers then why not.
As has always been advised .
Aside from the use of fog lights. I am in the camp where I use dipped headlights during the daylight hours between November and February mainly because daylight around these times can be poor, and on a sunny day, the sun being low in the sky, aids visibility by other road users.
In any adverse weather, i do use my fog lights, but always mindful about switching off when and if the weather improves.
Very interesting channel, I instantly subscribed. It's strange how there is so much said about rear lights. But yet how oddly strange very little about front super bright HID headlights? Do they not dazzle oncoming drivers, to the point of dangerous vision recovery stabilisation time? When bright light distraction occurs, less intensity lights can be missed, or disappear. The colour temperature plays a major role here too, adding too distraction.
In the early 1980s, Ford experimented with brake lights making them slightly "pink" as to distinguish between fog lights and brake lights. They obviously stopped this .
Great video. At last someone looking Into the skills of driving to the highway code, other than manoeuvre skills! Thanks.
I didn't realize about using fog light in such circumstances Ashley. However, I am old enough to remember when we used to get real fog and you needed the fog lights on and slow right down to a snails pace. But these days as soon as there is the slightest mist the traffic reporters on the radio are quick to tell all motorists to put there fog lights on. This really hacks me off as on most commuter journeys the traffic is nose to tail and the fog lights as you point out dazzle and leaves stars in your eyes. When I drive in fog I have a little rule that if I see no other vehicles in my rear view mirror I switch my fog light on. As soon as I see another vehicle I switch them off. Break lights in dark wet conditions are another point where I wish motorists would remember to put the parking break on and take there foot off the break. In the past we used to have all-sorts of public information on the TV but we hardly ever see them these days and people forget about all these little things that make driving more hazardous than it should be for other road users.
Few also realise that it is law that , on a motorway , as soon as you decide that lights are needed , you MUST use dipped headlamps ; the only exception being that in foggy conditions you may use front fog lamps instead of dipped headlamps .
5:54 FINALLY SOMEBODY SAYS IT, THANK YOU, OH MY LORD
Music to my ears as well
Says what?
@@shaund4155 People should use dipped beam headlights unless the situation requires differently
@@Red_wine
Isn't that just common sense?
I use my front fogs on my local country roads at night where there is always wildlife waiting to jump out of ditches. Not bad weather permitting but it’s ideal to protect the wildlife and stops me hitting an animal.
Must agree it does improve side visibility at low distances it does make some difference for sure.
"Wipers on, Lights on"
Not foglight though
Massachusetts have such a law.
No.
By design front fogs are angled low, I have never been dazzled by front fogs. Don't see an issue with them being turned on.in fact some cars they are used as (turning lights) so better illumination you could argue why not have them on as much as dippid beam? Rear fogs is obviously a different story.
Wow another great video! I always learn something from your videos! Thanks
When riding a motorcycle, on dark evenings on a wet motorway ( M4 westbound j24 -j29) in rain, a driver in front switched on his fog lights. Suddenly I can see nothing of the road, just a bright red light in my face. I'm in the outside lane an know there is a series of bends coming up, but have no idea when to turn in now. A very frightening scenario,that I only got out of by shear luck. I had to immediately slow in that lane lane, and fortunately the driver behind was on the ball enough to do likewise. Fog lights can be life savers. They can also be lethal.
I saw a car way off in the distance with a rear fog light switched on down a dark B road and assumed it was a motorcycle with some kind of modded tail light. As I got closer I realised it was actually an old car with its rear fog light on as I saw a much dimmer tail light appear on the other side I had no idea why they did this but they sure stood out.
I absolutely detest rear foglights. The operating window in which they are of any use is so small
means they are really only needed on very rare occasions, 99% of the time they simply dazzle and
irritate your eyes when all the other vehicles are clearly visible with the standard sidelights.
I dread driving at night in even slightly misty conditions, not because of the conditions but because
of drivers putting the foglights on.
Ashley, at 6:46 you mention about turning them off if visibility improves. Which I agree with, as too many drive around all day with them on, long after the fog has cleared.
However, what are your thoughts on turning the rear fog lights off, if you're in traffic and the car behind you is clearly aware of your presence. Say, you've come off an A-road, sitting at traffic lights about to head into a built up area where the car behind is likely to be following you at much less than 100m. Or in built up morning rush hour traffic that's crawling along a major road? I turn mine off, so as not to dazzle the poor sod sitting behind me. If I go back onto an emptier road, with traffic behind me over 50m, I'll switch them on again.
Those drivers aren't forgetful, they are simply clueless. There's a warning light on the dash if the fog lights are on... it's not hard to miss!
3:15 Something I find really annoying. I was told some cars put the brake lights on with the handbrake now when I asked why no one used their handbrake these days.
Research i read some time ago showed that automatic cars were rear ended less often than manual cars because drivers of auto cars tend to have they're brake lights on at junctions.
@@pussinboots1145 The whole reason why when I did my advanced driving course it was suggested keeping a foot on the footbrake until the car behind had stopped - then it becomes unnecessary. If there's not a car behind as you approach the lights, again, lift your foot off the brake, until you see traffic approaching, then just put it back on until they're stopped.
@@pussinboots1145 my volvo s90 have brake lights on all the time when stationary
@@kluchakiller weren’t Volvo the first ones to have headlights on all the time as well?
@@jfletcher1029 I don't know honestly. But I know they invented 3 points seat belt and didn't patent them so others car manufacturers could use.
What's scary and concerning is the fact that many people drive in poor weather/visibility conditions with NO lights turned on at all, including night time. Just the other day a car next to me got pulled over by unmarked police vehicle for no lights on during night time...
I hope it wasn’t Bumblebee?
That is the folly of dumbed down new cars with dumb drivers at the wheel . So called automatic lights , DRLs which have no accompanying rear lamps , and idiotic instrument panels which are illuminated all the time ; in a proper car , having the panel in darkness tells you you have no lights on .
Modern cars with LED rear lights are a huge dazzle problem in rain or drizzle
That's why some economy cars built today use LED brake light and running lights for the rear, but use regular halogen bulbs for the rear-mounted fog light / lights.
It’s really simple in my eyes - if you can’t see the vehicle ahead of you because of the conditions, then put on fogs for your own safety :)
If you come to a stop because of an accident or mechanical fault, you need to way more visible. Or if you are travelling at a slower speed than someone who doesn’t care for the conditions, supporting your own and others planning :)
Hazard lights if stopped in an emergency , assuming your car is fitted with them .
Front fog lights are only of value in thick fog when there is too much light reflected back from the headlights. Typically this would be when the maximum sensible speed is below 30 mph and, in my opinion, they should not be used at any other time. Rear fog lights are there to show your presence to following vehicles when visibility is under 100 metres as you say but my bugbear is that, once on, they are rarely switched off even when visibility becomes perfect (again you mention that this is a requirement of the Highway Code but that doesn't seem to help. My final point concerns the etiquette of rear fog light use. They are to ensure that any following vehicles can see you so, if you are in heavy traffic, they should be switched off (similar to your brake light comment) as the vehicles behind can definitely see you and the high intensity light is both annoying and makes it harder to see brake lights. I suggest that the approach ought to be the same as high beam headlights; if someone comes the other way you dip your lights so, if someone is close behind in bad visibility, rear fog light should be turned off to improve safety.
My go to , is rule 126 stopping distance.
Drive at a speed that will allow you to stop ,well within the distance you can see to be clear .
To me that means you must be able to stop well within the distance you see to be clear. ie : able to stop if something is in your path , a elephant, small child , drunk person , broken down car (with or without fogg lights ) or any other reasion . We must be able to stop well within the distance we can see to be clear ! How many of us can conform to this rule literally?
Fog lights hmmmmmmm .....maybe they should be called poor visibility lights to stop people thinking they can / should only be used in fog
RVI - "Reduced Visibility Illumination".
High density rear lights
@@NorthWestOutlaws high *intensity* rear lights ;)
@@Dust76tr not sure if that was me or auto correct. But there are 10 types of people, those who know and those who don't.
@@NorthWestOutlaws I’m well aware of binary, but you said high density rear lighting, which would be incorrect. Fog lights are high INTENSITY
I find front fog lights can be very useful on narrow B roads in any weather, as dipped beam do not project well towards the edge of the road and around corners. Bearing in mind that front fog light are set lower, nearer and therefore away from incoming drivers gaze. In fact, much less dazzling than many ridiculously aggressive xenon dipped headlights in premium cars nowadays which I have experienced being almost blinded by on occasions.
Better cars have the front fog lamps in the headlamp cluster , at the same height as the headlamps ; which makes them legal to use at any time , unlike low down ones which may only be used when visibility is seriously reduced . However , yes , I agree the wider beam can be very useful in such situations , unless you have something like a Tucker Torpedo , Citroen DS or SM with headlamps which turn with the steering to light your way round corners .
What I hate is the new Led lights they blind me. They are a pain. It's like a high beem on some new cars
Quality video, I've often heard the fog only myth. But see cars all the time with fog lights on. Thanks for clearing up another mistaken road belief.
Using fog lights in thick spray seems like good sense to me.. Half the nob heads don't even bother to put any lights on even in the fog
Frightened they are going to wear the candles out.
I agree with you.
Here is my post.
What's the difference when on a fast road, the difference between mist and fog and spray?
In wet weather heavy rain for example the spray from fast moving vehicles create a mist like condition just like fog. If i can only just see the vehicle in front without the lights on. (half the time they don't have any lights on) it's time to no longer drive behind them as they can't be seen clearly. With the rear fogs on you can see and judge your distance. Remember it takes longer to stop when the ground is wet so you need more distance between you and the vehicles in front and behind. If you increase that gap and can't see the car in front because of the mist from the rain. The chances are the person behind you won't see you either. Thats when it's a sensible time to use rear fogs lights. Admittedly some people's eyesight are better than others. But what is safer, someone being able to see you or someone driving into the back of you?
@@flybobbie1449 I have my lights on pretty much constantly, the lcd display with speed etc is really dim without lights on.. I have then on even on sunny blue sky days and I've still not changed a bulb in well over a year
As usual,.. Good advice.
My motto... " See and Be Seen ".... lights on ,... Always..... unless you are static and off the highway.
I've started putting my main beam on at people that drive around with their fog lights on a clear evening.
The “also” in rule 226 is interesting.
It may be different in UK but here in New Zealand switching on fog lights automatically switches off headlights.
Were you watching Reg Local by any chance?
I would be surprised too if anyone could get rescued visibility in spray for 100meters. Fog lights rarely need to be used. It’s very annoying people using them when not needed.
Haa! I just commented along similar lines as a main thread before seeing your comment!
ua-cam.com/video/7hHEvnefcIE/v-deo.html
As an all-weather motorcyclist, I find fog lights on cars a nuisance more than a help, usually. They're dazzling at the front worse than full beam (which is at least aligned usually), while at the back they're easily confused for brake lights. I do however think dipped lights can constantly be on for cars - they are now for most new motorcycles. Motorcycles don't usually have fog lights, some don't have hazard lights either.
There's no easy answer for the dazzling effect at the front, but I think rear fog lights should actually be amber rather than brake-light red. Amber is equally bright, signals danger and cannot be confused for emergency vehicles unless they're blinking. It's also something that cyclists and motorcyclists might carry in foul conditions.
PS: I don't have a B license or interest in one, but Ashley's analysis is impeccably fair and the videos entertaining as well as educational. I have to sit through video IT training often, but this is much better. I hope I'm not the only motorcyclist watching this.
Rear fog lights in rain in spay are dazzling and distract away from the brake lights. Can’t stand people who use them away from fog
But many cars only have 1 fog light and pretty much all cars have high level brake lights so it shouldn't really be a problem differentiating between fog and brake lights.
Ah yeah sure stick a blindfold on while you’re at it.
If there’s heavy rain on a motorway to the point where you can’t see cars ahead, you’re gonna need to stick those rear fog lights on.
The only gripe I’d have is that (at least on my car) you can’t turn the rear one on without also turning the 2 front ones on.
So I’d understand if your point was about people needlessly using front ones...
I agree, rear fogs in rain are dangerous, the bright light gets scattered in the rain on the cars windscreens that are following making it harder to see what’s ahead of the car in front and distracts from brake lights.. I’ve never used rear fog lights in bad rain in the 35 or more years I’ve been driving! If drivers slowed down and kept more distance in bad weather then you wouldn’t need to used rear fog lights...
Well that's not true now is it. ECE directives state the Foglight must be 10cm away from the brake light atleast.
@@khalidacosta7133 doesn’t matter, 10cm or more, in rain they dazzle and makes it harder to be safe!
I totally agree with you on using the handbrake at traffic lights, especially at night. Near where I stay there is a set of traffic lights on a hill and it's amazing the number of drivers who sit with their foot on the brake even although their hand brake is on.
Common issue with new Cars now are the automatic hold on the foot brake. It leaves the brake light on but as people are not holding their foot down it’s as if the handbrake is on so they’re unaware. Or don’t care.. I always pull my parking brake if I’m stationary for more than 3 seconds to deactivate the brake lights. It’s a shame modern cars can’t do this automatically that a sustained period auto turns the auto hold to the parking brake.
it is a non issue during daylight , but can be a pain at night with someone stopped close behind .
I remember the early 90s when it was the height of fashion to drive around with your front fog lights on! Ahhh! To be a cool cat!
And the “aaaargh they are blinding me” even though pointed at the ground and using the same bulb as headlights ;)
And now cars use them as cornering lights - aaargh I’m blinded ;)
Not allowed - fine with that
Made up “aaaargh they blind me” - grrrrr
Ps - I think it was the saxo VTR ads of the late 90s with blacked out windows and front fogs on that made it cool
There seem to be a lot of drivers still stuck in the early 90s
@@patrickmkiv or they are DRLs like on the fabia VRS
@@problemchild1976 There's loads still have foglights on at night. Once the headlamps are on the DRL won't come on.
And certain police forces also considered it fair game to issue fines for doing so!
I was driving home from work the other day and the person in the car in front turned rear fog lights on for what was a very slight mist, visibility was barely affected, plus they were in traffic, surely if you are in traffic with vehicles in front and behind you do not need rear fog lights on?
Dont need fog lights now modern headlights are so painfully bright!
Really? Light reflects, you certainly need rear fog lights still. You can get in situations where you can’t see a vehicles rear lights in front of you. So I would say they are still essential.
@@damedusa5107 yes rear not front any more
@@paultomlinson528 in find that really bright headlights in heavy fog actually make it worse, it just reflects back at you, gives you a white glow in front. You obviously have to get the right dip etc. Hate driving in fog.
Turn mine on in obvious fog (common sense applied) I get behind someone turn front off, someone is behind turn rear off, and reverse as those leave.
As for spray, I was taught by my driving instructor to use them if spray or weather is serious and could be to the point normal lights aren’t enough. (Mainly because I learned to drive in winter and the weather was atrocious)
Edit: Just on the topic of lights, if I’m in a drive through I will go down to side lights to not shine me lights in the mirrors of the person in front (my daily is a van so high up headlights)
You should leave your rear on, just because you can see the bright headlights of the car behind in fog, they can likely only see your bright red fog light. You turn that off and the dim red light of your rear lights might become invisible for them to see. In fog, keep them on.
@@isctony Nope. I shall continue doing as I do as I know when they’re following me they’re too close to have my Fogs on. Thanks though
Every new car has blinding LED DRLs anyway nowadays, even worse at night
They dim at night if the headlights are turned on, they should only blind you if the driver is driving with their lights off as they are meant to be super bright during the day to be of any use.
@@SurgeDashcam in fact they are not super bright, just aimed right at your eyes
@@piciu256 DRLs are position lights which scatter their output. They’re not really aimed anywhere.
I was a motorcyclist for many years before I learnt to drive a car, and I hated fog lights in spray or rain. I found that because visors don't have wipers (unless someone has invented them since), all you could see was red with fog lights in spray. In fog you can clear your visor regularly with your hand but in spray or rain you can't keep up with the moisture. I'll stick to ordinary full lights in spray for the sake of other motorcyclists - seeing nothing but red glare is frightening. Opening the visor doesn't help because your eyes fill with rain and fine grit.
Try following a car with fog lamps on in drizzle on a motorcycle then.
Yeah it takes a LOT of drizzle to reduce visibility below 100 metres. I've been in fog which didn't even reduce visibility enough to merit the use of fog lights so I dread to think how hard it would have to be raining to necessitate their use.
In the Netherlands we've slowly but steadily replaced the top layer of all the highways with a layer that is highly permeable for water. The old stuff will have rain stay on top and cars would splash it up in a very fine fog like spray. Since that is no longer the case on most roads, using fog lights in the Netherlands is not allowed unless the visibilty is lower than 50 meters. This does not include rainy conditions anymore.
Neet, it'll probably be another 20 years before my countries government even realises that stuff exists neverminds consider using it.
Incredible how many Audi's and BMW's have hardwired fog lights that never turn off.....
I don't think I've ever seen a new Mini without them on.
@@BaldMancTwat Made by BMW....lol
And indicators that never turn on
As Derby doesn't really get much in the way of thick fog, the only time I ever seem to use the front fog lights (no DRL on my 10 plate Ford) is either in very heavy spray on the M1, or when it is snowing (and I don't mean light snow, I mean thick flakes). Rear fog lights....rarely use. I think over the 19yrs I have been driving, I have only ever used my rear fog lights once.
Strong inclination that the other channel he was on about was Reg Local an IAM member and I believe examiner
I tried the IAM scheme and half the stuff they told me to do I felt was potentially lethal
@@airplanejack Roadcraft is well worth reading but IAM instructors sometimes want to teach you the whole book including the fast overtakes that Reg would only teach to police drivers. I failed it by not overtaking the car in front of me which was making reasonable progress anyway.
@@andyalder7910 I failed because my tester told me I didnt beep at a parent when there child was at the crossing and they were 'not paying attention' it's not my job to say who's good or bad at parenting!
I use rear fogs if conditions mean normal lights are hard to see from the spray because it makes me easier to see, more on the motorways and high speed roads than anywhere else. Visibility without vehicles is over 100 meters but the spray obscures the lights. Another trick for spray, given the appropriate light conditions, is to wear polarised glasses. Fog light issue may be caused because deteriorating conditions are much easier to notice "oh I can't see as well now" vs when they improve so it's having that reminder that can be a challenge. If visibility is poor, gotta be prepared to be turning them on and off as appropriate as you would with main beams
I don't mind seeing cars driving around with fog lights on during good visibility conditions, it alerts me that there's an idiot on the road so I'd better keep my distance 😃
Haha, never thought of it like that.
5:49 I totally agree, your dipped headlights should be on anyway in them conditions.