Yup. Just had my 90 shaman for about half an expansion before they decided to remove that. It was literally the single reason I chose ele shaman over all the other casters. And then I rolled with enhance which was completely unviable and only really a good duel specc and then they nerfed ascendance. Both visually and effectively. So, fuck shaman.
why did they even do that? ele in MOP was by far the most fun class imo (and i played every single class).. being able to walk LB into lavaburst proccs was just awesome
Critzy Critical I was talking mostly about PvE since the things that are vital in PvP are things that are worthless in PvE and thus Blizz doesnt care to much. Enahnce and Ele were both beyond terrilbe in WoD PvE and Ele was also trash tier in WoD PvP
As soon as I saw this title I knew it was going to be elemental shaman :/ My main is elemental and it's so disappointing to see this class be so perform so poorly. I hope Blizzard can fix it before legion actually launches because it's turning into a real bummer.
Yeah I meant vanilla and BC lol. Shamans could do some crazy damage in those times. They were easily exploited but if one got a moment of free cast on you then you died. Now days its all the exploitations but none of the damage.
How is Icefury at 110? Because currently on 7.0, you can dump all your frost shocks into someone and pretty easily get em below 50% super fast. So if you play with a lock and just switch to shit below 50% and spam frost shocks, you're probably going to get a kill.
I bet you gained this knowledge from a very knowledgeable elemental shaman. Perhaps even an elemental shaman who has ascended to a level beyond an elemental shaman. Or, you can just call him a Master Shaman.
Yes, I have always loved playing underdog specs and Ele was my favorite...but lately it had been feeling so much more gimp than before. I mean, I just got faceroled by a human warrior while while out questing on Tichondrius and MFkr is just LOL'ing...lol. Seriously, tired of getting my main fucked over every xpac.
In warlords our issue was defensive cooldowns as well... Would it really be that crazy to get some sort of immunity? I did 2s as ele but it was with a ret pally so he could provide my defensives if I needed but mostly people focused pally every match.
RagnarokDA We can't even use that lame defensive while stunned. As the video said, it's like the Shaman design team ignores PvP entirelly and after that other team did the PvP talents to try and save the mess. Not even the brutal PvP talents manage to do so. I play on a PvP server, and I must say, I froze my acc more than once due to the sheer frustration of being hopelessly outclassed when ganked. Not this time.
From a design point of view it makes sense to choose between lots of instant weaker lava bursts or big ones that don't come instant. But as PvP relies so much on burst dmg the first option becomes a PvE only thing and the second isn't quite effective either since you lose mobility.
I like your realistic, yet optimistic outlook you have in your videos. You are able to point out weaknesses even in classes you like without complaining. I respect that. You, sir, have earned a subscriber :)
what about fire and ice? spread those shocks, shoot a lot of instant weak lava bursts, and get more earth shocks because of the flame shock generation?
Hey Cartoonz, do you know what the setting is to turn on the numbers on your health bar (for yourself and your target). I can't find the option anywhere after the prepatch.
Hey Hogmanlolz! Love the videos, great content and super frequent. My one piece of feedback would be that personally I would like more commentary over the arenas when you cut to them. You spend a lot of time giving background and insight into the class but it would be very interesting to hear your commentary with the class actually in action.
The pvp talent that ups lava burst damage would be cool if instead of getting rid of lava surge, it just applied to hard casts. Then it becomes strategic to keep your lava burst on cooldown as much as possible so your lava surge procs don't count against your damage. Also would make it a good tactic to use your lava bursts before casting flame shock. Something like that, or really anything that would have better synergy than what they did do. Also its insane to me that shaman have so little defenses compared to other classes. There just isn't currently a good mechanical reason to play one, they don't do enough damage to be successful as glass canons to such a degree, and there are many classes that do gigatons of damage and have stacked defenses. Right now tanks are the best of both worlds, especially DKs.
And who here is actually surprised? I saw this coming when the class changes to legion were announced. Freeing the shocks was nice, but only solved one of the MANY problems with elemental. It's very frustrating if you're like me and want to main this class. They need better defensives, a better way to deal damage under pressure, and better and more reliable self heals. It has always been a mechanics issues, not a numbers issue. So without mechanics changes, I don't expect ele to be competitive in any serious capacity, YET AGAIN. Saddest part of all, if you go on the forums for Shaman, you still see the "pros" saying we're fine. They're too insecure and filled with ego to admit they're playing the weakest class and ask for buffs. They eat shit and like it, which is exactly why nothing really changes.
holy... i was trying so hard to figure out why my ele felt so weird. you nailed it! i could tell lava burst was extremely unsatisfying with its damage, and i kept asking myself why my frost and flame shock costed maelstrom. i think if they looked at these changes, and the lack of defensives issue that you mentioned, it could be a really fun class to play. i feel like they just got shafted compared to the other hybrids for sure.
A man started playing Elemental Shaman in BC because he didn't see very. A man only wanted to be different. So he fell in love with the class. So charming it was. A man can always appreciate a challenge. Face-roll classes were never of interest. First time he ever witnessed a LB crit... His eyes grew wider. Oh the beautiful numbers. A man knew he had found his place in the game. Now I am too stubborn to give up on my Elemental. "Fool!" they say... But we do not hear a sound. Maybe we just pretend not to.
thank you for addressing that there really is a problem with ele and shami-players are not just QQing. I consider playing wow again after 2 years so I'm tracking beta gameplay. it's frustrating that my first chosen and favorite spec is always at the low end in the course of the addons..
it kills me that everything you said is true. I swear, it just doesnt even feel like bliz is even trying to balance Ele at all. Bad heals, bad mobility and our only hard hitting skill (Lava Burst) hits like a wet napkin. But they couldnt stop there, they took away Sham rage, pretty much our only chance to survive and gave of this shitty Astral Shift. It literally feels like they are making sure Ele is dead. What makes it worse, we are bad at what we are only good at... burst
Thanks for doing this video, I requested it a couple videos ago and I'm amazed you did it so soon. Just shows how much you actually care about your viewers and I think thats just one of the few reasons why you're a better youtuber than the mainstream ones. I've been really wondering how they're looking on a 110 scale. Bummer that they're weak :( Maybe it'll change.
I dont actually think the elemental shaman is weak. It has got a lower duel potential but it seems really strong in control of a 3v3. Seems fun to play, and cc around the field.
I've been testing destro quite a bit and IMO it's actually good. Not top tier, but it isn't bottom of the bucket either, i've found a ton of melee assume "Oh, its a destro lock, I just kill it and interrupt chaos bolt !" only to find they're dead on the floor with 3 portals surrounding their corpse.
+Jarrellm10 affliction is boring imo , i dont like it , destruction play style is more fun for me even though it sucks ass ill play destruction in legion too.
hey thanks a bunch toonz, i'v been asking in your comments on previous videos to do one on elemental and im really glad you finally put one up, I always felt like we were seriously underpowered/undertuned? and im glad to see you point of view on the matter man, guess ill be going enhancement until further notice :(
I felt the same way in testing. Great for pve but not quite enough survivability in either. Ghost wolf with frost shock slow is okay I guess. But nothing beats a 25 yard displacer beast. It also felt clunky building to any sort of burst in pvp.
I'm glad you made this, cuz I've mained ele shaman for quite a while. I wish we had or strengths back or at least spirit walker's grace, cuz melee just tear me a new one
I hope they give little bit of love later on. I would also like to see more of that artifact weapon. Its poor to have it wielded in all the time even if it is fist weapon. Its nice seeing it while casting!
Gonna have to call out the comment on ele healing compared to moonkin because it's simply mathematically inaccurate. Below is a breakdown of spell power coefficients. "Elemental shaman's direct heal gains 45% boost from the artifact talent alone. It heals baseline (without 45% from artifact) for 450% spell power at a 1.5 sec cast. Druid's Healing Touch is a 360% spell power on a 2.5 second cast, and the only thing your artifact does is give you a free one every 20 seconds. Regrowth which competes with Healing Touch in casting opportunity cost and offers less burst healing (its burst heal compared to Healing Surge at the same 1.5 sec cast time is less than half of Healing Surge's healing without taking Healing Surge's 45% artifact boost, and the total healing is a miserly 269.4% spell power, or about 60% of the healing over 12 seconds of what a Healing Surge without artifact boost heals for). Rejuv adds 60% spell power every 3 seconds. Assuming you're being generous and cast a Regrowth+Rejuv to compare with Healing Surge, you have a total healing of 569.4% for two globals, spread over an effect of 15 seconds, while 2 Healing Surge's in two globals worth of time heals for 900% spell power without the 45% artifact boost. Add swiftmend every 30 seconds for a third global, bringing up 1269.4% spell power for 3 globals. 3 Healing Surges in 3 globals is 1350% spell power. 2 Healing Surges at 2 globals with a 45% boost is 1305% spell power. Of our 3 ideal druid globals, 2 are instant, but 2 of the 3 spells can also be dispelled/spellstolen, they take many times longer to fulfill their healing for a lesser total amount of healing, and Swiftmend is on a 30 sec cd." I know most people don't like to read a wall of text, but it's getting annoying to have to tell people that restoration affinity heals are NOT good and druids have the weakest heals of the hybrids. Both ele and druid heals even look small compared to the healing from shadowmend with masochism talent and artifact perks for the shadow priest, not to mention the 50% hp recovery and 95% damage reduction of dispersion or the passive healing from vampiric touch.
Hey Necro, you're right in some regard that the regrowth/rejuv is weaker than Healing Surge, but the reason why moonkins have better healing is this pvp talent on top of resto affinity. :) prntscr.com/bxr9wc It's actually healing touch always critting and having a
Hogmanlolz Yeah, I can see where Protector of the Grove might tip this over. So HT's casted on yourself count as "HT casted on an ally"? Neat! I hope they reintroduce shamanistic rage back on shaman and that it has a baseline debuff dispel on it. Spiritwalker's Grace needs to make a return as baseline.
No they don't actually, so you'd take PotG when you're fighting a team that's unlikely to train you. Anything else is best to take Druid of the Claw and guardian affinity. :)
i totally agree that maelstrom spent on flame/frost shock is pretty useless. i havent found myself yet, WANTING to spend it on anything other than earth shock. if anything they take away a lot of damage that could be used for earth shock by doing that. like, why spend a precious resource for a longer slow effect or dot? PvP mostly all about burst damage which is where earth shock comes in. plus you NEED flame on them to get any damage out of lava burst and just to get that buff up, you blow maelstrom. often a lot for not much pay off, i believe. and really, playing my worgen druid, i have a much better time. mostly cause of the mobility and self heals, i went 3 bgs last night and died 1 time. one of them top kb 11-0. i mean, between displacer beast, darkflight, dash, prowl, barkskin, rejuv, swifmend, travel form and bear form, it is quite effortless to dip from a sticky situation
I've mained an elemental shaman since I started WoW back in BC and I must say I absolutely loved the spec up until WoD. WoD Elemental was just horrible, it was tough getting into raids and mythic dungeons and trying to push rating in arenas was near impossible. I could basically only do BGs LFRs and raid with my guild (with very mediocre DPS). However, on live servers right now I think Elemental shamans are a lot better than they were pre 7.0 and I think a lot of people have forgotten that. With the ability of Path of Flame spreading flame shock almost instantly allows me to generate massive amounts of lava surges which helps me get to the top of DPS and Damage (BG). Is the spec fixed? No but it definitely is getting there. I really love this class but hate how the damage revolves a lot around RNG Procs. Also the mastery LOL. They take away Multistrike as a stat but give it back to elementals as mastery. Maybe with the artifact weapon this will change but we will have to see. I'm looking forward to the fine tunings in the weeks till legion. Love the vid Cartoonz.
I'd say it's slightly worse after prepatch. And I tried the spread flameshock talent but it wasn't as good a just going with the old mastery talent and spreading the. yourself
Great last game. Lack of Bed Sheets is worrying. I want to see more lightning for Elemental, right now they seem like wind, earth, fire. I say remove gust of wind, and make thunderstorm a ground targeted teleport with two charges.
crits from a surthen spell that reduce the cd of gust of wind by ##,##s would be cool ... or just give running lighting bolt back .. even then a lot of problems wouldnt be solved but at least its a start.
taking totems away from the shaman.. dude.. FUCKING NO. maybe im just beeing nostalgic but totems belong to the shaman. this class would not be the same then anymore..
I normally agree with you on a gospel-level bounds but uhh mike this looks like a more comfortable glass cannon than mop destro, between control lava/earthshock it feels like your hex totem with another burst dps cooldown can burn someone like no other. Please tell me where this assumption is wrong however the gameplay looks solid and i kinda dig the hardscope style pvp adjustments so far =P love the vid keep up the awesome legion coverage
I think it's the larger Blizzard nameplates, not an addon. To activate these go into Interface->Combat or Names (don't remember which) and check Larger nameplates.
Does anyone know what addon he has for the health bar above the enemy he's targeting? I like the bar above the enemy but not over every enemy like when you hit V in game.
Scrubby question that could I could answer myself if i wasn't lazy, but is symbiosis still in the game? It's been like two years since i've played so I'm hella out of the loop.
Looks like the same ele shaman we have had since wotlk. Lack luster defense and long cast times. 5's are gone so got have top tier partners to get anywhere in arenas imo.
Am I the only one who does not have that problem? For me so Far im currently topping DPS as the Elemental shaman in the pre patch, i found that against several classes with same Ilvl, I'm currently easily outperforming them. Don't get me wrong there are a few things that made shamans feel a little more clumsy but in pve they are definately good as far as I can see. I been playing Elemental shamans since Vanilla and I havent felt this good topping DPS since WOTLK
Elemental Shaman has been my main since WoTLK. Blizzard never shows love for shamans. Ever since like cata they have done nothing but nerf us. Give us back our healing tide or even just healing stream totems and we might not be so useless.
Blizzard has some weird vendetta vs. shamans, without our healing streams we get popped by any type of melee cleave which sucks if you want to gear up doing 2s.
Hey cartoons! First of; Your videos are great and very helpful. Your voice is really pleasant to listen to and you know very well how to properly explain stuff. Amazing! Could you make a Destruction Warlock video in Legion? So many people say it is dead, but can you confirm? I do wish to return my green fire warlock and it would truly be a shame if my favored spec would be gone to wasted. Would be awesome and keep up your awesome work! :)
If you buff all of those u just mentioned the class would become even Harder to kill. AS cartoonz just showed in the video it is possible to survive and make the kill. If they buff all of the above it would become OP.
+xero34 i mean just a little bit...like giving them one totem that heals over time, a second strong defense cd (because every meele got more than one def cd an the shamans one is shit) and a regular movement thing like every 20seconds the can ride on an earth piece with x increased speed you now some escape thing like blink or the druid thing
+Bernd Hubmann we did get that lasso stun thing seems really really good for cc and for keeping incomming damage on hold. And instead of escaping trinkets or nature's Guardian we are allowed to LITTERLY fly away on a tornado. + Wolf form. (With glyph makes the Wolf form able to heal u 2 % of your health every 5 sec While running) if u ask me that seems pretty good for defensives alone...and u Can probrably get more if u wanna spec into it + the voodoo totem.
+xero34 that wolf form thing is so underpowerd as he said ele have no chance against meele cleaves and in duels as it seem ele is the badest class out there
+Bernd Hubmann i mean Maybe the could buff the Wolf healing thing but still take all of these cc/control spells learn how to use Them and u have a good class. The damage according to cartoonz seems good to me 350 k in 1 spell (if crit and luck) and u Can spec into more cc and Crowd control if u want. Don't want Them to overpower shamans that Much.
I find ele amazing against melee now with frost shock and flame shock not sharing CD. I just kite melee all day spamming frost shock and lava bursts. then gust of wind if they get on you. Worthless vs caster. I bet good against destro lock! lol
Honestly 150% more damage doesn't seem better to me. Example, lava burst hits for 10, with talent it adds on 15 more damage, so 25 total. 3 procs would give you more damage, you'd be more mobile, and while waiting for procs you have lightining bolt, hex, ect..
As Blizzard said that specs that have good uptime and good mobility should do less damage than those that don't have good uptime. They should make something similar with ele shaman. As ele can't escape that easily as mage, cant heal as good as boomie and is in every case worse version of other casters, it should be tankier. Eg. it should have some passive dmg reduction, after all it has a shield, that should count for something besides visuals.
Cartoonz, I hope Blizzard sees this, and takes you seriously. Lava Surge makes Elemental Shaman fun. Losing it just so we can barely compete damage wise in PvP isn't cool. They need to fix it.
My enhance shaman main has this same problem in pre patch right now. Fine damage but only 1 defensive cool down and our heal takes 2 resources. No way I'm staying alive unless I have a sick healer in 3s.
I feel like the talents arent quite thought through... Replacing Lava Surge when many talents interact with it is just stupid and clearly an oversight. Hope it gets fixed.
Hogmans! I don't understand why you're not using Icefury! They've completely changed the way that ele-shaman is functioning, I feel that you're trying to play it like the olden days where Lava Burst did your damage when where I feel that lava burst is only used for building maelstrom. At least on beta, I feel that building maelstrom and spamming your icefury + frost shocks with maximum maelstrom with 25% maelstrom refund talent is heavy damage.
regular talents are also for pve. Control of Lava would not be super-mandatory in pve. you're problem is that you think of shaman as a caster. It's not, it's much more like a paladin. Ghost wolf breaks CC/is defensive cooldown+mobility. But yeah, enhancement is all around better.
Elemental Shaman's are, in fact, casters. The spec was meant to play like a caster, it even says so in the spec description. Cartoonz is all about PvP, so his videos/opinions aren't really PvE oriented. I see where he is coming from. If Blizzard is going to offer a Caster Spec for this Class, it needs to be viable for Both PvE and PvP. Feeling that you have to take a specific talent just to barely compete in damage is not balanced. It needs work.
Jake you cite the flavor text? the flavor text hasn't changed since Wrath at least mate. But the classes have. Shamans are melée, period. end of story. They wear mail, most of their abilities are melée range only, they wield melée weapons. they just aren't completely useless at range the way a paladin is. But that's true of rogues too, doesn't make them casters.
Indecent have you even played the class recently? to use any of your abilities you must have melée weapons equipped: maces, swords, etc You do have a few ranged abilities: lightning bolt is far range, earth shock is medium. But to use your main maelstrom spender you must be inside your target's hitbox. I don't know how they used to play, but nowadays if you're not in melée you're not going much.
Sophie, there are three specs available to Shamans. Elemental is the caster spec. It is RANGED, and uses spells. ENHANCEMENT is the melee version. Are you sure you don't have the two confused? I find it hard to believe that you don't. Lastly there is Restoration for healing, but that is beside the point.
Yeah, Ele shamans have been gods in PVE but in PVP they are almost incapable of 1v1'ing some classes(Rogues the bane of my existance) because they dont have the Defensive cooldowns or they lack the mobility. When they took away castable on the move for lightning bolt it killed any chance I feel at being competitive in 2's. From what i have seen thus far tho they are way better than WOD. We atleast have a shittier version of blink, better CC and with Icefury good burst and some chance to do damage on the move.
I Entirely agree. The damage is pitiful and we can be downed really quickly. 1v1 was basically impossible before legion and im quite sure its even worse now.-.-
Na, Lava burst does way too little damage without the talent. Considering how many classes can self heal now, you need to burst someone down quick before they can get themselves back up to full health.
Lolol. I read the title and elem shaman popped in my head. I will say, I've topped dps charts in pve. But there are varying factors. They're still not great and could definitely use some buffs.
How is it nonsense? I never saw any serious pvp player asking for those changes, instead everyone was complaining about the bad gameplay. Guess what they did not fix..
like all jokes aside, YOU need to be working at Blizz seriously. The amount of detail and effort you put into this is crazy good and potentially beneficial if Blizz still pays attention. gg
Hello Cartoonz, Just a personal tip for next videos, I would try to make them in different locations everytime. Seeing Durotar in every one of your videos gets tiring. Cheers
This is the shit that scares me about Legion. I love the beta (when it works) and have been playing the hell out of it, but I'd say there are at least 3 specs that feel completely unfinished and many others that are clear need of a little bit more work and we are 1 month out from launch.
I main elemental and your 100% right but what people don't understand is in 3v3 there are really good bg there they really good 2v2 not so much and main part of wow pve elementals shamans are really powerful
dont really agree with this video. if u say that without the lava burst honor talent it does to little dmg. at least explain the dmg difference. i mean atm with my ele i get about 6 procs in one go. do u know how hard that is? :-/
Damn. Ele looked fun, too. So, Fire mage is basically the most versatile caster, in terms of adapting to many different situations, and talent choices, then? I was already set on staying mage , but this has me hype.
Seems pretty obvious they are giving you a choice between lavaburst being high damage, less often, and mediocre damage, more often. Can't say I agree that it's necessarily a bad thing. Follows a common logic to wow and to how a lot of other classes work too.
+Nathan Casey It's not really a trade off is it? It just lets you pick what damage delivery suits what you're doing. My guess is that the damage remains about the same in the long run.
it doesn't. the procs don't happen enough to burst someone down. maybe a few builds ago it was ok to do it but now after many nerfs to lava surge. its garbage. the talent buffs lava surge by 150% and during burst he hit for like 250k. thats gonna be low without it
***** also lava control used to be 200% and before other lava surge nerfs lava control used to make lava surge in ascendance hit for up to 700k and then if the spell duplicated you could kill in 2-3 casts. then they nerf ele so hard it turned into this video
So it's basically gonna be like every other pvp season. Elemental shaman can't do anything, another given class can do better... CC, offhealings, burst damage or AOE. No point taken an elemental course there'll be a class who can do any of these things way better
I think it's so funny how strong enhancement was in this last patch and now they are just making all shamans reroll because of how weaksauce they are lol
Once they removed the walking lightning bolt, I knew dark times were coming for the ele shaman.
Amen brother.. I was so pissed when that happened!
Yup. Just had my 90 shaman for about half an expansion before they decided to remove that. It was literally the single reason I chose ele shaman over all the other casters. And then I rolled with enhance which was completely unviable and only really a good duel specc and then they nerfed ascendance. Both visually and effectively. So, fuck shaman.
why did they even do that? ele in MOP was by far the most fun class imo (and i played every single class).. being able to walk LB into lavaburst proccs was just awesome
They did it because they did a mass prune of casters being able to cast while moving. Not realizing that ele sham actually needed it.
not to mention that fire mage, the most broken class atm STILL is able to walk while casting scorch :)
I swear blizz has something against ele's.. They just refuse to make them better
+Critzy Critical that comment was pvp related. I'm sure they do just fine free casting in pve
Ele was also the worst caster in WoD. Elemental were top tier in Pandaland but shit tier (together with Enhancement) in WoD.
Critzy Critical I was talking mostly about PvE since the things that are vital in PvP are things that are worthless in PvE and thus Blizz doesnt care to much. Enahnce and Ele were both beyond terrilbe in WoD PvE and Ele was also trash tier in WoD PvP
watch preachs video. he says its the best its ever been.
+Daniel Stanford yea well preach also only pves hahaha
As soon as I saw this title I knew it was going to be elemental shaman :/ My main is elemental and it's so disappointing to see this class be so perform so poorly. I hope Blizzard can fix it before legion actually launches because it's turning into a real bummer.
I feel the same. was very excited about trying out the new Ele Shaman but it's still very frustrating to play...especially on a pvp server.
i have memories of at certain times being legitimately afraid of ele shamans.....
Well that was reaaaaaally long time ago ... do you mean BC? or even Vanilla lol
Yeah I meant vanilla and BC lol. Shamans could do some crazy damage in those times. They were easily exploited but if one got a moment of free cast on you then you died. Now days its all the exploitations but none of the damage.
+Jarrellm10 constant procs of wind fury xD
How is Icefury at 110? Because currently on 7.0, you can dump all your frost shocks into someone and pretty easily get em below 50% super fast. So if you play with a lock and just switch to shit below 50% and spam frost shocks, you're probably going to get a kill.
exactly, this guy is clueless.
I bet you gained this knowledge from a very knowledgeable elemental shaman. Perhaps even an elemental shaman who has ascended to a level beyond an elemental shaman. Or, you can just call him a Master Shaman.
elemental shaman never gets any love
They should just disable the spec in pvp.
As someone who mained an elemental shammie forever, I must say - is anyone surprised? XD
NEVER!!!! xD...
Yes, I have always loved playing underdog specs and Ele was my favorite...but lately it had been feeling so much more gimp than before. I mean, I just got faceroled by a human warrior while while out questing on Tichondrius and MFkr is just LOL'ing...lol. Seriously, tired of getting my main fucked over every xpac.
SothicLight YEah, me too. I'll prolly main resto shaman and have a secondary tank main, not sure wich one yet.
In warlords our issue was defensive cooldowns as well... Would it really be that crazy to get some sort of immunity? I did 2s as ele but it was with a ret pally so he could provide my defensives if I needed but mostly people focused pally every match.
RagnarokDA We can't even use that lame defensive while stunned. As the video said, it's like the Shaman design team ignores PvP entirelly and after that other team did the PvP talents to try and save the mess. Not even the brutal PvP talents manage to do so.
I play on a PvP server, and I must say, I froze my acc more than once due to the sheer frustration of being hopelessly outclassed when ganked. Not this time.
You're doing great Cartoonz, keep it up!
From a design point of view it makes sense to choose between lots of instant weaker lava bursts or big ones that don't come instant. But as PvP relies so much on burst dmg the first option becomes a PvE only thing and the second isn't quite effective either since you lose mobility.
I like your realistic, yet optimistic outlook you have in your videos. You are able to point out weaknesses even in classes you like without complaining. I respect that. You, sir, have earned a subscriber :)
what about fire and ice? spread those shocks, shoot a lot of instant weak lava bursts, and get more earth shocks because of the flame shock generation?
> Talent that only affects Lava Surge
> PvP talent that removes Lava Surge
Great design, Blizz.
Hey Cartoonz, do you know what the setting is to turn on the numbers on your health bar (for yourself and your target). I can't find the option anywhere after the prepatch.
Hey Hogmanlolz! Love the videos, great content and super frequent. My one piece of feedback would be that personally I would like more commentary over the arenas when you cut to them. You spend a lot of time giving background and insight into the class but it would be very interesting to hear your commentary with the class actually in action.
The pvp talent that ups lava burst damage would be cool if instead of getting rid of lava surge, it just applied to hard casts. Then it becomes strategic to keep your lava burst on cooldown as much as possible so your lava surge procs don't count against your damage. Also would make it a good tactic to use your lava bursts before casting flame shock. Something like that, or really anything that would have better synergy than what they did do. Also its insane to me that shaman have so little defenses compared to other classes. There just isn't currently a good mechanical reason to play one, they don't do enough damage to be successful as glass canons to such a degree, and there are many classes that do gigatons of damage and have stacked defenses. Right now tanks are the best of both worlds, especially DKs.
And who here is actually surprised? I saw this coming when the class changes to legion were announced. Freeing the shocks was nice, but only solved one of the MANY problems with elemental. It's very frustrating if you're like me and want to main this class. They need better defensives, a better way to deal damage under pressure, and better and more reliable self heals. It has always been a mechanics issues, not a numbers issue. So without mechanics changes, I don't expect ele to be competitive in any serious capacity, YET AGAIN.
Saddest part of all, if you go on the forums for Shaman, you still see the "pros" saying we're fine. They're too insecure and filled with ego to admit they're playing the weakest class and ask for buffs. They eat shit and like it, which is exactly why nothing really changes.
holy... i was trying so hard to figure out why my ele felt so weird. you nailed it! i could tell lava burst was extremely unsatisfying with its damage, and i kept asking myself why my frost and flame shock costed maelstrom. i think if they looked at these changes, and the lack of defensives issue that you mentioned, it could be a really fun class to play. i feel like they just got shafted compared to the other hybrids for sure.
Cartoonz is on fire! Can we take a pause and appreciate all these new videos?
A man started playing Elemental Shaman in BC because he didn't see very. A man only wanted to be different. So he fell in love with the class. So charming it was. A man can always appreciate a challenge. Face-roll classes were never of interest. First time he ever witnessed a LB crit... His eyes grew wider. Oh the beautiful numbers. A man knew he had found his place in the game.
Now I am too stubborn to give up on my Elemental. "Fool!" they say... But we do not hear a sound. Maybe we just pretend not to.
What the should do is with the dmg increase reduce the dmg for it but still be able to get insta cast or be able to move while casting lighting bolts
thank you for addressing that there really is a problem with ele and shami-players are not just QQing. I consider playing wow again after 2 years so I'm tracking beta gameplay. it's frustrating that my first chosen and favorite spec is always at the low end in the course of the addons..
it kills me that everything you said is true. I swear, it just doesnt even feel like bliz is even trying to balance Ele at all. Bad heals, bad mobility and our only hard hitting skill (Lava Burst) hits like a wet napkin. But they couldnt stop there, they took away Sham rage, pretty much our only chance to survive and gave of this shitty Astral Shift. It literally feels like they are making sure Ele is dead. What makes it worse, we are bad at what we are only good at... burst
just started watching your videos and i think they are great, you go in depth with your stuff good job man keep doing what you do
ok so boomkin hits for over 1M, and ele shaman for 200k... fair enough :D
I hope boomkin get nerfed and destroyed.. i hate those fucking owls.
+Uriel Nino lol buzz off mate eleshams are retarded
lol a druid spec being nerfed? naah xD
Thanks for doing this video, I requested it a couple videos ago and I'm amazed you did it so soon. Just shows how much you actually care about your viewers and I think thats just one of the few reasons why you're a better youtuber than the mainstream ones. I've been really wondering how they're looking on a 110 scale. Bummer that they're weak :( Maybe it'll change.
I dont actually think the elemental shaman is weak. It has got a lower duel potential but it seems really strong in control of a 3v3. Seems fun to play, and cc around the field.
the title implies cartoonz hasnt played any destro yet
Ikr xD
Just change to affliction and you'll do just fine lol.
Well the title says caster and not spec :P
I've been testing destro quite a bit and IMO it's actually good. Not top tier, but it isn't bottom of the bucket either, i've found a ton of melee assume "Oh, its a destro lock, I just kill it and interrupt chaos bolt !" only to find they're dead on the floor with 3 portals surrounding their corpse.
+Jarrellm10 affliction is boring imo , i dont like it , destruction play style is more fun for me even though it sucks ass ill play destruction in legion too.
Great video, very balanced and insightful. Ele has so much potential sytlistically but is so gimped as to be almost unplayable in pvp situations.
hey thanks a bunch toonz, i'v been asking in your comments on previous videos to do one on elemental and im really glad you finally put one up, I always felt like we were seriously underpowered/undertuned? and im glad to see you point of view on the matter man, guess ill be going enhancement until further notice :(
Can someone explain to me how fire mage is suppose to beat a demonology warlock?
I felt the same way in testing. Great for pve but not quite enough survivability in either. Ghost wolf with frost shock slow is okay I guess. But nothing beats a 25 yard displacer beast. It also felt clunky building to any sort of burst in pvp.
Gratz! It only took you 6 years to figure this out.
Shamans have a new spec Now its actually pretty descent, lava burst hits like wet noodles so go the icefury spec
ele blast hits hard too but unfortunately everything is a 2 sec cast now. i guess losing the haste passive was really impacting on our cast times
I'm glad you made this, cuz I've mained ele shaman for quite a while. I wish we had or strengths back or at least spirit walker's grace, cuz melee just tear me a new one
what's the addon that show the skill on the lower side called?
Nice video, after watching a couple of your legion videos I still have no idea what to play for Legion.... The struggle is real!
I hope they give little bit of love later on. I would also like to see more of that artifact weapon. Its poor to have it wielded in all the time even if it is fist weapon. Its nice seeing it while casting!
Gonna have to call out the comment on ele healing compared to moonkin because it's simply mathematically inaccurate.
Below is a breakdown of spell power coefficients.
"Elemental shaman's direct heal gains 45% boost from the artifact talent
alone. It heals baseline (without 45% from artifact) for 450% spell power at a 1.5 sec cast. Druid's Healing Touch is
a 360% spell power on a 2.5 second cast, and the only thing your
artifact does is give you a free one every 20 seconds.
Regrowth which competes with Healing Touch in casting opportunity cost
and offers less burst healing (its burst heal compared to Healing Surge
at the same 1.5 sec cast time is less than half of Healing Surge's
healing without taking Healing Surge's 45% artifact boost, and the total
healing is a miserly 269.4% spell power, or about 60% of the healing
over 12 seconds of what a Healing Surge without artifact boost heals
for). Rejuv adds 60% spell power every 3 seconds.
Assuming you're being generous and cast a Regrowth+Rejuv to compare with
Healing Surge, you have a total healing of 569.4% for two globals,
spread over an effect of 15 seconds, while 2 Healing Surge's in two
globals worth of time heals for 900% spell power without the 45%
artifact boost. Add swiftmend every 30 seconds for a third global,
bringing up 1269.4% spell power for 3 globals. 3 Healing Surges in 3
globals is 1350% spell power. 2 Healing Surges at 2 globals with a 45%
boost is 1305% spell power. Of our 3 ideal druid globals, 2 are instant,
but 2 of the 3 spells can also be dispelled/spellstolen, they take many
times longer to fulfill their healing for a lesser total amount of
healing, and Swiftmend is on a 30 sec cd."
I know most people don't like to read a wall of text, but it's getting annoying to have to tell people that restoration affinity heals are NOT good and druids have the weakest heals of the hybrids.
Both ele and druid heals even look small compared to the healing from shadowmend with masochism talent and artifact perks for the shadow priest, not to mention the 50% hp recovery and 95% damage reduction of dispersion or the passive healing from vampiric touch.
Hey Necro, you're right in some regard that the regrowth/rejuv is weaker than Healing Surge, but the reason why moonkins have better healing is this pvp talent on top of resto affinity. :) prntscr.com/bxr9wc
It's actually healing touch always critting and having a
Hogmanlolz
Yeah, I can see where Protector of the Grove might tip this over.
So HT's casted on yourself count as "HT casted on an ally"? Neat!
I hope they reintroduce shamanistic rage back on shaman and that it has a baseline debuff dispel on it.
Spiritwalker's Grace needs to make a return as baseline.
No they don't actually, so you'd take PotG when you're fighting a team that's unlikely to train you. Anything else is best to take Druid of the Claw and guardian affinity. :)
Ok, thanks for clarifying ;)
I have played elemental shaman as my main since launch of vanilla wow. and the changes to the ele shaman has made be a very sad panda.
You missed the stun that the earth ele does as well as the damage damage reduction the earth ele gives you.
i tell you! Elemental shaman will be the most Hipster spec of Legion! Super awesome !
LOL!!! Sad but true. Damn you Blizzard!!!
i totally agree that maelstrom spent on flame/frost shock is pretty useless. i havent found myself yet, WANTING to spend it on anything other than earth shock. if anything they take away a lot of damage that could be used for earth shock by doing that. like, why spend a precious resource for a longer slow effect or dot? PvP mostly all about burst damage which is where earth shock comes in. plus you NEED flame on them to get any damage out of lava burst and just to get that buff up, you blow maelstrom. often a lot for not much pay off, i believe.
and really, playing my worgen druid, i have a much better time. mostly cause of the mobility and self heals, i went 3 bgs last night and died 1 time. one of them top kb 11-0. i mean, between displacer beast, darkflight, dash, prowl, barkskin, rejuv, swifmend, travel form and bear form, it is quite effortless to dip from a sticky situation
How is icefury at 110? For the pre patch it is the only reason ele does any damage.
I fear to say your totally right hog.. now im begin to shake and think about using another class :(
I've mained an elemental shaman since I started WoW back in BC and I must say I absolutely loved the spec up until WoD. WoD Elemental was just horrible, it was tough getting into raids and mythic dungeons and trying to push rating in arenas was near impossible. I could basically only do BGs LFRs and raid with my guild (with very mediocre DPS).
However, on live servers right now I think Elemental shamans are a lot better than they were pre 7.0 and I think a lot of people have forgotten that. With the ability of Path of Flame spreading flame shock almost instantly allows me to generate massive amounts of lava surges which helps me get to the top of DPS and Damage (BG).
Is the spec fixed? No but it definitely is getting there. I really love this class but hate how the damage revolves a lot around RNG Procs. Also the mastery LOL. They take away Multistrike as a stat but give it back to elementals as mastery. Maybe with the artifact weapon this will change but we will have to see. I'm looking forward to the fine tunings in the weeks till legion. Love the vid Cartoonz.
I'd say it's slightly worse after prepatch. And I tried the spread flameshock talent but it wasn't as good a just going with the old mastery talent and spreading the. yourself
This is why my ele shaman sits at the bottom of the character screen.
Great last game.
Lack of Bed Sheets is worrying.
I want to see more lightning for Elemental, right now they seem like wind, earth, fire. I say remove gust of wind, and make thunderstorm a ground targeted teleport with two charges.
crits from a surthen spell that reduce the cd of gust of wind by ##,##s would be cool ... or just give running lighting bolt back .. even then a lot of problems wouldnt be solved but at least its a start.
Huh....Elesham is bad? Who'd have seen that coming...
I think blizz should change totems into little elemental helpers instead
taking totems away from the shaman.. dude.. FUCKING NO.
maybe im just beeing nostalgic but totems belong to the shaman. this class would not be the same then anymore..
When it played the sound and he said sorry that was my drop box I minimized my video checking if something popped up
I normally agree with you on a gospel-level bounds but uhh mike this looks like a more comfortable glass cannon than mop destro, between control lava/earthshock it feels like your hex totem with another burst dps cooldown can burn someone like no other. Please tell me where this assumption is wrong however the gameplay looks solid and i kinda dig the hardscope style pvp adjustments so far =P love the vid keep up the awesome legion coverage
what addon is that for the nameplayes? i hate the legion normal nameplates cant stand them
I think it's the larger Blizzard nameplates, not an addon. To activate these go into Interface->Combat or Names (don't remember which) and check Larger nameplates.
Does anyone know what addon he has for the health bar above the enemy he's targeting? I like the bar above the enemy but not over every enemy like when you hit V in game.
That's the new interfaz
That is the bar from toggling enemy name plates in game. He just made it bigger, which you can do too.
Tidy Plates
William Friis Henriksen Thanks!
You thanked the only person that gave you an incorrect response.
Scrubby question that could I could answer myself if i wasn't lazy, but is symbiosis still in the game? It's been like two years since i've played so I'm hella out of the loop.
anyone know the name of the 1st song?
Earthbind totem is also a ground target nowdays, making it way stronger than before :D
Looks like the same ele shaman we have had since wotlk. Lack luster defense and long cast times. 5's are gone so got have top tier partners to get anywhere in arenas imo.
Am I the only one who does not have that problem?
For me so Far im currently topping DPS as the Elemental shaman in the pre patch, i found that against several classes with same Ilvl, I'm currently easily outperforming them.
Don't get me wrong there are a few things that made shamans feel a little more clumsy but in pve they are definately good as far as I can see.
I been playing Elemental shamans since Vanilla and I havent felt this good topping DPS since WOTLK
wasnt boomkin your first alt in cata..?
Ele sham is really strong in PvE at the moment.
Elemental Shaman has been my main since WoTLK. Blizzard never shows love for shamans. Ever since like cata they have done nothing but nerf us. Give us back our healing tide or even just healing stream totems and we might not be so useless.
Shamy's did get some of the coolest transmogs througout certant expansions.
lol idc about transmogs it is about the hard nerfs to shamans for no reason
+zergling1243 yeah i know im just trying to Seem positive hehe
Blizzard has some weird vendetta vs. shamans, without our healing streams we get popped by any type of melee cleave which sucks if you want to gear up doing 2s.
What's that shield you're using xmog, please? It looks cool as hell.
Challenge Mode 8/8 Gold Wardlords of Draenor shield.
Face of the Guardian. you get it from Challenge Mode: Golf achievements in WoD
Hey cartoons! First of; Your videos are great and very helpful. Your voice is really pleasant to listen to and you know very well how to properly explain stuff. Amazing! Could you make a Destruction Warlock video in Legion? So many people say it is dead, but can you confirm? I do wish to return my green fire warlock and it would truly be a shame if my favored spec would be gone to wasted. Would be awesome and keep up your awesome work! :)
blizz should buff mobillity selfheal and defense of shamans (ele/enh....resto is still very good)
If you buff all of those u just mentioned the class would become even Harder to kill. AS cartoonz just showed in the video it is possible to survive and make the kill. If they buff all of the above it would become OP.
+xero34 i mean just a little bit...like giving them one totem that heals over time, a second strong defense cd (because every meele got more than one def cd an the shamans one is shit) and a regular movement thing like every 20seconds the can ride on an earth piece with x increased speed you now some escape thing like blink or the druid thing
+Bernd Hubmann we did get that lasso stun thing seems really really good for cc and for keeping incomming damage on hold. And instead of escaping trinkets or nature's Guardian we are allowed to LITTERLY fly away on a tornado. + Wolf form. (With glyph makes the Wolf form able to heal u 2 % of your health every 5 sec While running) if u ask me that seems pretty good for defensives alone...and u Can probrably get more if u wanna spec into it + the voodoo totem.
+xero34 that wolf form thing is so underpowerd as he said ele have no chance against meele cleaves and in duels as it seem ele is the badest class out there
+Bernd Hubmann i mean Maybe the could buff the Wolf healing thing but still take all of these cc/control spells learn how to use Them and u have a good class. The damage according to cartoonz seems good to me 350 k in 1 spell (if crit and luck) and u Can spec into more cc and Crowd control if u want. Don't want Them to overpower shamans that Much.
I find ele amazing against melee now with frost shock and flame shock not sharing CD. I just kite melee all day spamming frost shock and lava bursts. then gust of wind if they get on you. Worthless vs caster. I bet good against destro lock! lol
blizzard hates ele shamans recently, dont know why i think they are cool as fuck
Honestly 150% more damage doesn't seem better to me. Example, lava burst hits for 10, with talent it adds on 15 more damage, so 25 total. 3 procs would give you more damage, you'd be more mobile, and while waiting for procs you have lightining bolt, hex, ect..
then again, it may be one of those things "sounds good on paper"
It's a shaman. Lol. Why did I expect this.
what is the most weak melee class?
As Blizzard said that specs that have good uptime and good mobility should do less damage than those that don't have good uptime. They should make something similar with ele shaman. As ele can't escape that easily as mage, cant heal as good as boomie and is in every case worse version of other casters, it should be tankier. Eg. it should have some passive dmg reduction, after all it has a shield, that should count for something besides visuals.
Cartoonz, I hope Blizzard sees this, and takes you seriously. Lava Surge makes Elemental Shaman fun. Losing it just so we can barely compete damage wise in PvP isn't cool. They need to fix it.
My enhance shaman main has this same problem in pre patch right now. Fine damage but only 1 defensive cool down and our heal takes 2 resources. No way I'm staying alive unless I have a sick healer in 3s.
enh heals are non existent
They literally heal for half of what the tooltip says in pvp.
What's that song during the arena clips? It's so chill
it sounds like old school ofra haza....I'm sure it's not, but voice is very similar
I feel like the talents arent quite thought through... Replacing Lava Surge when many talents interact with it is just stupid and clearly an oversight. Hope it gets fixed.
I'd argue that Elemental with the Swelling Waves has some of the highest off healing in the game. Defensives and damage are pretty sucky though.
Hogmans! I don't understand why you're not using Icefury! They've completely changed the way that ele-shaman is functioning, I feel that you're trying to play it like the olden days where Lava Burst did your damage when where I feel that lava burst is only used for building maelstrom. At least on beta, I feel that building maelstrom and spamming your icefury + frost shocks with maximum maelstrom with 25% maelstrom refund talent is heavy damage.
Blizzard should change the class name into "Please bully me in the wild"
regular talents are also for pve. Control of Lava would not be super-mandatory in pve.
you're problem is that you think of shaman as a caster. It's not, it's much more like a paladin. Ghost wolf breaks CC/is defensive cooldown+mobility. But yeah, enhancement is all around better.
Elemental Shaman's are, in fact, casters. The spec was meant to play like a caster, it even says so in the spec description. Cartoonz is all about PvP, so his videos/opinions aren't really PvE oriented. I see where he is coming from. If Blizzard is going to offer a Caster Spec for this Class, it needs to be viable for Both PvE and PvP. Feeling that you have to take a specific talent just to barely compete in damage is not balanced. It needs work.
Jake you cite the flavor text? the flavor text hasn't changed since Wrath at least mate. But the classes have. Shamans are melée, period. end of story. They wear mail, most of their abilities are melée range only, they wield melée weapons. they just aren't completely useless at range the way a paladin is. But that's true of rogues too, doesn't make them casters.
Indecent have you even played the class recently? to use any of your abilities you must have melée weapons equipped: maces, swords, etc You do have a few ranged abilities: lightning bolt is far range, earth shock is medium. But to use your main maelstrom spender you must be inside your target's hitbox. I don't know how they used to play, but nowadays if you're not in melée you're not going much.
Indecent have you played recently though? you might be surprised by the changes then.
Sophie, there are three specs available to Shamans. Elemental is the caster spec. It is RANGED, and uses spells. ENHANCEMENT is the melee version. Are you sure you don't have the two confused? I find it hard to believe that you don't. Lastly there is Restoration for healing, but that is beside the point.
Yeah, Ele shamans have been gods in PVE but in PVP they are almost incapable of 1v1'ing some classes(Rogues the bane of my existance) because they dont have the Defensive cooldowns or they lack the mobility. When they took away castable on the move for lightning bolt it killed any chance I feel at being competitive in 2's. From what i have seen thus far tho they are way better than WOD. We atleast have a shittier version of blink, better CC and with Icefury good burst and some chance to do damage on the move.
I Entirely agree. The damage is pitiful and we can be downed really quickly. 1v1 was basically impossible before legion and im quite sure its even worse now.-.-
You don't HAVE to play with that talent. You're better off getting a bunch of lower hitting free procs than a casted hard hitter.
Na, Lava burst does way too little damage without the talent. Considering how many classes can self heal now, you need to burst someone down quick before they can get themselves back up to full health.
yeah I agree. Sucks they hit for like sub 5% of up though
Lightning Lasso is a revamped Bear Hug.
any videos of Icefury and fire and ice talent instead of control of lava??
Lolol. I read the title and elem shaman popped in my head. I will say, I've topped dps charts in pve. But there are varying factors. They're still not great and could definitely use some buffs.
Blizzard won't understand that nobody cares for trashran or a new honor system. Just fix the fucking gameplay and don't develop such a waste..
I like the new honor system
what a nonsense comment.
How is it nonsense? I never saw any serious pvp player asking for those changes, instead everyone was complaining about the bad gameplay. Guess what they did not fix..
its organized in teams, u can ask to put more or better people that develops classes but take from anotherone is weird. Theres is the same problem
like all jokes aside, YOU need to be working at Blizz seriously. The amount of detail and effort you put into this is crazy good and potentially beneficial if Blizz still pays attention. gg
Hello Cartoonz,
Just a personal tip for next videos, I would try to make them in different locations everytime. Seeing Durotar in every one of your videos gets tiring. Cheers
yes dash is defensive CD and it is since ... vanilla
Toonz walks with ESDF like a baws.
This is the shit that scares me about Legion. I love the beta (when it works) and have been playing the hell out of it, but I'd say there are at least 3 specs that feel completely unfinished and many others that are clear need of a little bit more work and we are 1 month out from launch.
I main elemental and your 100% right but what people don't understand is in 3v3 there are really good bg there they really good 2v2 not so much and main part of wow pve elementals shamans are really powerful
dont really agree with this video. if u say that without the lava burst honor talent it does to little dmg. at least explain the dmg difference. i mean atm with my ele i get about 6 procs in one go. do u know how hard that is? :-/
i haven't seen anything that is worse that destro lock , i would really happy if they could delete so it can rip .
worse than*
+Mohammed Abdulla u mean destro locks in the current beta? If u are yeah they are dead. Play affliction, they can't die. 😉
domon
Damn. Ele looked fun, too.
So, Fire mage is basically the most versatile caster, in terms of adapting to many different situations, and talent choices, then?
I was already set on staying mage , but this has me hype.
Seems pretty obvious they are giving you a choice between lavaburst being high damage, less often, and mediocre damage, more often. Can't say I agree that it's necessarily a bad thing. Follows a common logic to wow and to how a lot of other classes work too.
what other classes make this trade-off on their main damage ability?
+Nathan Casey It's not really a trade off is it? It just lets you pick what damage delivery suits what you're doing. My guess is that the damage remains about the same in the long run.
it doesn't. the procs don't happen enough to burst someone down. maybe a few builds ago it was ok to do it but now after many nerfs to lava surge. its garbage. the talent buffs lava surge by 150% and during burst he hit for like 250k. thats gonna be low without it
+Stuff Ah I see. Perhaps all it needs is a reasonable damage buff and that may solve it for both choices.
***** also lava control used to be 200% and before other lava surge nerfs lava control used to make lava surge in ascendance hit for up to 700k and then if the spell duplicated you could kill in 2-3 casts. then they nerf ele so hard it turned into this video
Better def or they need to cast while moving...
As Ele sham, my whole life was about healing myself bcs I've never got time to do dmg haha.
So it's basically gonna be like every other pvp season. Elemental shaman can't do anything, another given class can do better...
CC, offhealings, burst damage or AOE. No point taken an elemental course there'll be a class who can do any of these things way better
I think it's so funny how strong enhancement was in this last patch and now they are just making all shamans reroll because of how weaksauce they are lol