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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- We talk about Paulo Freire's Pedagogy of the Oppressed. His critique of the banking model of education. The importance of critical consciousness. His Existentialist influence. The dialectic between oppression and liberation. The problem-posing model of education. The role of dialogue in learning and the co-creation of knowledge. Marx's influence on Freire. The flexibility of Freire’s pedagogy. And some responses to critics of Freire.
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I read the book just a few months ago! This video was a great complement and refresher to the work! Thanks for covering Freire!
One of my favourite podcasts! Keep up the fantastic work! Much love from Canada🇨🇦
Brazilian here. You nailed it, Stephen. “Conscientização” is a process. Breaking down the word in parts:
- conscienti- : comes from consciência = awareness/ conscientiousness. Literally, to be aware of something/ know something together/ collectively, the collective knowledge of something.
- zação : expresses that it’s a process.
So, conscientização would literally be process of becoming aware or knowledgeable of something together.
thank you for highlighting his legacy… Cheers !
This Channel deserves a million subscribers. Thanks for this powerful episode
Stephen, your podcasts are incredibly interesting and fun to listen to - I have no idea how you manage to do what you do, I can only bow down and thank you for the work you've put into this so I could greedily consume all of this!:)
Mate, this was absolutely one of your best lectures. Paulo's work has such far reaching implications - education, personal, health (emotional & mental), relations, politics, etc. I'm trying to translate these themes to critically analyse my own personal/private life.
Your last criticism had me nodding in agreement. From all I had heard from the beginning of your lecture, that last criticism is just so invalid and inappropriate haha.
Thanks.
That last criticism states: if students and young people do tear the existing institutions apart, that's not because of Freire but because of the oppression that existed to which he pointed. Which is illogical.
@@milhouse53 Not really. It was moreso that young people, as a result of being exposed to Friere's work, will end up seeing themselves as victims of oppression, and see oppression everywhere, even if it doesn't really exist. Basically dubbing everything they don't like as 'oppression'. And response to that is - those young people wouldn't be engaging in critical consciousness authentically. Since they'd just be reducing their interpretation of something to oppression, rather than thoughtfully engaging with phenomena before them.
Im brazilian, from south Brazil, a state colonized mostly by italians and germans, the majority of the state here has shown itself to be mostly right-wing, including most of my family
But I wish I had knowledge of these ideas growing up
My education didn't seem to have Freire's influence, school was in fact very opressive, my classroom was kept in silence and engaged in learning mostly by fear of failure and punishment
My father was also very authoritarian, constantly screaming and forcing me to listen for hours to "moral lectures" where I was punished if I were to, in any way, show my disagreement or dissatisfaction
After my parents divorced, I gladly dropped out of school, and never finished my education
Severe anxiety and other health issues caused by exessive stress
And it became usual to hear of my friends failing health and similar issues (especially the ones who continued their education)
All our lives we were educated to reach quotas and deliver papers, to listen without questioning and to find a clear "right answear" to everything or else be punished
My critical thinking, my questioning of the world and my interest in philosophy and psychology, literature and other languages came after I've dropped out of school
I only learned of Freire afterwards as well, so I wonder how much of the downfall of the educational system is really caused by these ideas, and how much of it is just political fault distribution
As you may know, there are some very violent episodes to account for why liberation theology and its adjacent projects (like Freire’s) were ultimately suppressed across Latin America. The history of that sadly echoes any number of other proxy conflicts between American/Capitalist interests and their victims.
@@lucascorrea96 while my education was not as authoritative as yours sounds (though not anything like a Montessori school either) I also found my love of literature, history, philosophy, and a myriad other topics outside of formal education. It sounds like (and this may be me projecting here) that you came to realize that your own continued education was in your own hands, and no one elses. I believe that to be true, no matter what pedagogical system is being used, much in the same way that therapy often can not make changes in your life for you, but can merely guide you in the correct direction, the change is ultimately yours to make. There is nothing so freeing as shouldering responsibility for your own improvement, in education as well as other aspects of your life.
Cheers, friend.
Brilliantly argued. With a presentation like this, Stephen West could give an ideological defense of NSDAP and be persuasive.
Great episode. Never commented before but this spoke to me. Cheers.
Just here to like this video for now. Will it watching it lately.
Educated person is someone who understands what is being taught to them and able to use such information to manipulate whatever they want for good or bad. And to be able to understand information, they have to have a good thought process system or critical thinking skills to better analyze and make good conclusions based on the information been taught to them. And critical thinking skills aren't taught enough because most people don't have this skill. Especially people i have listened to and seen on the internet. And the most things not taught is that it's fine to be an idiot. Everyone is one. But as long as you improve your critical thinking skills, go and ask people questions about what you want to learn about, then you are less of an idiot or something. How to make these things? Don't know at least for now. I don't have access to people who i can bounce such things
You are searching, and this is liberating. I have a similar situation, not many people to bounce ideas off of. But I read a ton, I write to myself, I make a point of doing a little each day and half done for many years now. I don’t feel like I’m finding many answers, but the longer I do this, the less concerned that makes me. I’ve noticed, the folks who believe they’ve found answers tend to be the ones who’ve entirely stopped looking for them.
@@addammadd I get that. People stop looking once they find answers. The problem with that is that how do you know if the answers you have were not by chance happen to align with your problems. There are lots of famous people who got corrected or found out that they were right long after they passed on. By constant searching for answers we are able to explain further why the answers are true, how they can be connected to other problem solving and correct them if necessary. But then again we don't really have to know everything. All we need to know is things how to make renewable resources for food, shelter, electricity, water while trying to do less damage to the world and ourselves
🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
Pleaaaaese make a video to go along with these audio clips!
I wonder about this as change against entrenched systems tends be much, much longer than a lifetime and for your average Joe, devoting your time to internalizing the consensus view so you can regurgitate signifiers reflexively is the most available path to a good life (you can abuse your own thoughts in private).
There is a double-dealing required oppressed until they reach a critical mass to make change, keeping their personal education distinct from what society demands of them, which honestly is exhausting.
@@quintessenceSL I didnt follow the second half, but as for the first, I am a believer that changing an entrenched system is too herculain of a task for most people; hell, even most groups of people. The better option is to construct a viable alternative. Its more of a "lead by example" approach that way.
@@klosnj11my personal approach was to take the opportunity to homeschool my child. I make philosophy a cornerstone of her education, aesthetics another, practical life skills another, and pay major attention to what is working for her, what isn’t, and tailoring to whatever degree possible my pedagogy to that. She understands legitimate and illegitimate authority, for example, and accepts that mine is necessarily ephemeral and thus legitimate. She knows I’m her steward, not her owner; as per the typical western arrangement.
She will be one less person raised to mistake schooling for education, process for substance, fluency for the ability to actually say something etc.
I will not fix the world. My daughter is not my project, but her own human being. Perhaps one of the only who is being raised to understand that on a visceral, critical level that I know of. This option isn’t possible or desirable for everyone, but it is for me. So I do it.
Okay, so much to say. I will try to keep my quips about marxists never giving specifics so that they maintain justifiable deniability ("well, thats not how these ideas are supposed to be enacted, so thats not REAL Paouloist Education") to a minimum.
I abhore the oppressor/oppressed way of thinking and here is why;
If we are to accept that the education system has teachers oppressing students and trianing them to be good little servants to their masters (I know, its more nuanced, yes yes) then what we are doing is actively taking both the responsibility AND the power out of the hands of the students. What better way to cement in this perception of self-impotence than telling people that the reason they dont know or think how they are supposed to is because of some authority figure from their past? Is that not thinking in the same way as we were supposedly trained to do by sitting and listening to those very teachers as they spewed facts at us?
I homeschool my children, and my goal is to make them ever curious and self motivated autodidacts. Part of that is to put their education (and responsibility for it) in their hands to some degree. What questions about the world are they driven to answer? What about it drives them? Who do they want to be as a person?
Now imagine that I told them that all of these things will be spoiled by society as nebulous entities, a faceless force of "oppressors", is ultimately in control of how they think and feel? It would be absurd!
Ultimately, there is no greater oppressor in the education and development of any person in the modern world than themselves; their disinterest, their lack of drive, their fear, and the resulting lack of compitence. This is partially a result of government (authoritarian) education, yes, but mostly a result of an ease of existence.
Paulo, you have some decent ideas, but they are spoiled by your revolutionary bent. Throw off the shackles of the oppressor/oppressed perspective first. Then you can make some progress.
Thank you for the episode. As ever, your explainations and delivery were enjoyable.
@@addammadd I dont think that I said that the book was about homeschooling specifically. I brought that up as an example of my pedagogical philosophy, which also wasnt supposed to be taken as a universal, but a single sample.
Again, my complaint is with the use of this critical oppressor/oppressed lense that it sounds like he uses. Now, to be fair, I have not read the book, so that lense may not be as prevalent as I imagine, but its hard to feel too far off base on that when listening to this podcast (which I trust to give a fair representation of the material) and when the word "oppressed" appears in the title of the book.
I will be sure to download a pdf of the book for myself to read at some point, but I have a fairly long reading list as it is, so it will take some time to get to it.
@@klosnj11I want to say that from what you describe of your intentions in homeschooling, you already employ specifically what Freire implores others to do and reproaches banking system educators for failing to do. You are genuinely concerned with what your specific child particularly needs to empower them directly.
Don’t get caught up on the oppressor/oppressed dialectic; remember that there are contexts here that don’t apply to your situation but were massively important in his.
Succinctly, dude, the point isn’t to teach your kids that they are oppressed. It’s to teach them in ways which do not condition them to accept oppression.
@@addammadd right. You and I are in agreement, I think. But getting "hung up" on the oppressor/oppressed framework IS the problem I see with so much inspired by critical theory. Despite intended goals, it doesn't seem to innoculate a student against oppression. Instead it seems to so often result in a combative and paranoid world view that takes away what would otherwise be a freeing sense of agency and self-determination.
Now I recognize that the potentially combative worldview was brought up in the later part of this episode, in the spot where he was talking about coming at all this with love and not a sense of "dehumanizing" the "oppressors". And as I havent read the book, maybe Freire touches on that quite a bit, I dont know. I certainly recognize that regardless of how open minded I try to be, my view of this comes partially pre-colored-in by my past experience learning about critical theory and people who talk about oppression. I can agree with a lot of the ideas, but other aspects just rub me the wrong way. Different strokes for different folks I guess. Maybe its a culture thing.
I feel as though "oppressed" is being taken a bit out of context here and is being viewed from the lenses of extremism. And, I don't think Paulo uses oppressed Vs oppressor to denote the extremes but more about the balance of power - these extremes are never reached (unless in prechtist Egypt!).
The fundamental essence of Paulo's work seems to me to be about engagement, interaction, relying on one's self (independent thinking) and equality.
I think your last paras are actually in agreement with Paulo's thinking and is what Adam says along the way! The individual is the source of oppression to one's self because we lazily and are forced to rely an authority figure (teachers, parents, AI, et al.) to impart information, direction and ways of interpretation/analysis. It's just the school "banking" method solidifies this teacher-student/master-slave dynamic among many.
Mr. Stephen West is the best Philosophia Man out here in the YouToo Ramble Jungle! Thank you very much Mr. West for your videos! For the very first time I came to know about Guy Debord and Byun Chul Han via your videos [or podcasts!]. Tremendously interesting ideas these two have or had! Please if possible take few moments to reflect on Hakim Bey in the future. Forever indebted. Thanks and have a great day, Sir!
2:08 Blame “…recent decline in educational standards…”. Akin to blaming the meteorologist for the increased danger of heavy rainfall…?
Isn’t that blame the _consequence_ from decades of education standards being what they _are_ - teleology in reverse, but observable in the real (forwards) timeline?
Funny how carts always struggle at pulling any horse - however we believe it to be good practice…😅
A I gets it intelligence from humans.
Humans will get their intelligence from A I.
Didn’t we get mad cow disease from feeding animals back too themselves.
I love A I
Moo moo moo moo
Thank you for your work.
Ironic you should use the example of slaves pulling limestone in ancient Egypt as the example of oppression. Are you sure that’s how it went down? Or is that the story you’ve imbibed from a biblical world view unsupported by archaeological or scientific evidence? A form of the oppression of which Paolo Freire speaks. Some Egyptologists surmise the Pharoahs called upon their populace to shoulder the burden of such labor for the several months corresponding to the season of inundation of the Nile when they were therefore not engaged in agricultural pursuits.
This is presented as the lack of ability to aquire freedom and agency because of someone teaches from the center of the room and does not employ dialectic. There is way more to it. Frairie's motivation was to liberate mostly illiterate Brazilian peasants so that they can join to create a formidable social force. The "oppression" is inability not to learn but to utilize the learning. Education is not a "dialogue' between a teacher and student, it is student ability to internalize the social and cultural tools of thinking and then properly apply them
James Lindsay has a better understanding of Freire. And this podcast is a good illustration of how Freirean ideas infiltrated and subverted - and marxified - Western education.
Every one seems to be in competition these days to see who is the most oppressed.
I hear they are going to make it into an Olympic sport.
Best not to think which gender will get the most gold medals. No didn’t
min 6:09 lovely to hear.
This is all well and good, but there is a problem with your analysis, lack of understanding of economic externalities and the accelerating progression of social and societal atomization driven by the very same platform you use to project these low resolution ideas that everyone already knows. Change the system not the people, if people are to enact freedom, they must have economic and social spaces to do so.
Oh boy. I suspect I am going to hate this one.
(To self) Okay. Open mind. You can do this. Lets go...
Don’t think I ever had a teacher in school that was inspired by anything.
I somewhat agree and somewhat disagree to this video. From a neuroscience perspective, it's clear that rote learning has a space in education as human's short term memory is poor, only being able to hold around 5-9 items. So, this "learning of facts" approach, which gets criticised, only seems problematic if you have not taught students nor understand basic cognitive science. In terms of the content however, I would say that it should be changed. To me, what being educated is, at minimum, is being able to write and do math, which is what school does do for children. However, we probably focus too much on the "fact" side of things, to be clear though, it's only because these facts are used as a means to learn more arbitrary knowledge that I find this approach inappropriate. What we should be doing, almost exclusively, is having students read and write, and do as much math as possible. This is because language and math are skills, not facts, that are necessary for almost any development of knowledge. We definitely spend too much time not learning how to speak, read, write and learn the language of the universe filled with necessary truths available for reasoning in any real or hypothetical situation!! It certainly seems strange to waste time acquiring the arbitrary facts of HASS, science etc, we must teach skills that although aren't sufficient for a large domain, are necessary in essentially all domains.
Wow I loved this book! Read this in college!!
Pops passed me this book years ago in new zzzzzealand...loved it
Brasil mencionado
Conscientização is consciatisation
Conscientize this!
Lewis Michael Robinson Christopher Wilson Brenda
I’m an educator who deeply appreciates Freire’s educational thought, thank you for highlighting his legacy… Cheers 💖!
Even if it preaches political murder?
No... Just no. Love and anger are neither opposites nor mutually exclusive nor dichotomous. You don't dehumanize oppressors by taking their toys away, even if out of anger. You actually humanize them that way. Doing it "out of love" is how we ended up with slavery codified into the 13th amendment of our Constitution. We should be done playing word games, at this point. Let's be adults.
In what way are they humanized?
You should absolutely do an episode on Henry George! He is the most forgotten and undervalued political economist and was more popular than Adam Smith in his time.
It feels like a slide of hand when you imply seeing yourself as an individual is an impediment to seeing yourself as part of a larger group. Individuality is the opposite of banking school indoctrination. Individuality is the ineffable sum of all the different groups we belong to and the various ways we feel perceived by them. That should be common sense. Are you sure you didn't go to banking school.
Are you sure you aren’t impeding your own ability to understand what you’re hearing by taking your presumption of what he “implies” rather than, say, a bit of time to try to understand what dialectical tension exists at the subjective gap between the individual and the social?
You say “individuality is the opposite of…” and so on as if individuality is a universal concept-a rigid designator meaning the same thing for all people in all possible worlds- and not something which itself can be obfuscated, repackaged, and then programmatically conditioned into millions of youth under the guise of education. If I schooled you from infanthood to “believe you are an individual” on the basis of your particular summation of trivial facts (sports teams, preferred music genre etc) alone, then you will certainly fail to become an actually existing critical human being and merely a list of trivial facts.
When you go to the grocery store, you see an aisle with dozens of cereal options, do you take that to be freedom? A way to express yourself? Knowing it is one or two companies, really, iterating on a couple of recipe configurations and color schemes on boxes…
When you make your selection, is that your blessed individuality shining through?
It is this half-sense of individuality that is absolutely the product of phenomena such as the banking system of education and not at all what anyone could seriously take to mean as the quintessence of actually-existing human individuality.
Gets my vote,Well put ❤@@addammadd
Addam. As I said in my comment you apparently didnt even read, consciousness Consciousness is ultimately experienced by individuals. It is also, ineffable (that means it can not be accurately communicated by words). The mere fact you think you can shows you have outsourced your consciousness to a collective. Most likely the forces of fiat. You know some big words though, congrats.
I am oppressed and it feels awful. I am an incel, most people dont even know how awful it feels.
Friend, that is not opression. No one owes you access to themselves. You do not have a right to the affections or attention of others.
That said, it is understandable that being lonely can be torturous to young men (I presume you to be male). You can and will find someone, but you have to be the sort of man that a woman wants. Make sure you have personal drive and goals. Keep yourself and your spaces clean and fit (it shows respect to yourself). Study and practice small talk; it is a skill, qnd it does require regulqr practice. See women not as a prize to be won or as a damsel to be wooed, but as another complex person. Shoot for making acquaintances first.
And always remember that the fish you catch is often dependent on where you try to go fishing. A polluted lake produces polluted fish.
Best of luck out there. You can find a mate.
@@klosnj11 Never said anyone owes me anything. I hardly think i can find a mate. I was mostly made fun of by girls and guys for most of middle/high school. Only this year i realized how much looks matter, maybe the most. I didnt believe it until i saw all the studies and made the connection with my personal experience. It hurts but im free cause i know the truth now.
No... You don't dehumanize oppressors by taking their toys away, even if out of anger. You actually humanize them that way. Doing it "out of love" is how we ended up with slavery codified into the 13th amendment of our Constitution. We should be done playing word games, at this point. Let's be adults.