FFXIV - So About The New Viper Changes (7.05)
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- Today i'm giving my points and opinions on the new viper change as of 7.05
What i say in this video does not mean that EVERYONE has to feel like me but tis just my opinions! love yall!
#ffxivmmorpg #gaming #ffxivgameplay #ffxiv #dawntrail
Let me preface by saying this - I don't think anyone is wrong in liking or disliking the changes, This was just my opinion, If you enjoyed the changes then more power to you wholeheartedly. As for me it just didn't feel fun and that's it - Also i know it's Cliché to say but don't forget to Subscribe! (It's free and i will give you Shadowbringer cookies) - New Vid Saturday -Love you all! Mwuah
OH NOOO FFXIV PLAYERS HAD TO DO SOMETHING, HOW PITIFUL, KEEPING TRACK OF 1 DEBUFF ?? SUCH DIFFICULTY
That they're continuing to remove skill expression and make jobs easier like this really makes me doubt that 8.0 job design will be better like they claim.
Literally this, the precedent that is being set is concerning for future changes
I'm scared for the future of reaper because it plays perfectly right now, I'm scared they'll ruin it. But it's already on the easier side, the only "hard" thing is double communio in buff window, hope they won't change that.
@@corvoyami3192 I'm not too worried about Reaper to be honest. I can't really think of any ways they could simplify it with the way it's currently designed, besides removing Shadow of Death.
@@ToaChronix Removing Shadow of Death would completely kill Reaper and double enshroud. It's not about simplifying it tbh, it's about ruining its flow. But I'll enjoy the present
I'm still going to be a viper main through and through, no matter how 50/50 I feel about the changes they've made so soon. They've killed some of the job identity it had, but I just love the feel and aesthetic of the class too much to go back 😭 Also since I enjoy high apm, other classes now feel too slow for me so I've been ruined 😂
I'm pretty neutral towards the changes. Viper's identity imo is "press a lot of buttons very fast" and that's still the case. The skill expression being purely in uptime and not missing any weaves is plenty, because there's a lot of potentially lost damage simply from faulty execution. It's a unique job identity in a game where everyone complains about homogenization. If anything, I have a slight preference towards the newer system because you actually change up your combo starter rather than pressing the debuff application once every minute.
as someone who used to be a black mage main and did EW savage all on BLM, the changes they did to it making it rigid and following a set rotation instead of having non-standard lines and fun optimisation completely crippled my enjoyment of the job.
i've been playing VPR in DT and honestly i felt the debuff was a little limiting, so i don't know how i feel about the change since now you can time a triple ouroboros in a pot window if you manage your resources right. i don't think the skill expression has changed much since you're still thinking about how you're going to manage your odd minute gauge fills while also trying to get your buffs up right before you triple reawaken, for the big damage. noxius gnash, while fluid, made the job feel same-y after the first few proper rotations and i don't really think it was a skill expression when you just pressed the button every 20-40 seconds to refill it, dread/vicewinder also refilled it making it a joke in endgame content. the only thing it did was remove the ability to do a big burst, limiting you to 2 reawakens in a very tight window before having to refill your buffs
maybe i feel this way because i played a nonstandard BLM for so long but i do enjoy the current VPR changes and how it plays, not that i'm discrediting anyone for having an opinion different from mine, people are allowed to like/dislike something because it is subjective ^^'
Job is reduced to hit buttons that glow, press Dreadwinder and Coil sometimes, Triple Awaken.
They made it even more braindead😂
Reaper is perfect right now. It's easy, but it plays perfect. I'm scared for the future reaper changes. Sigh.
The only thing that was difficult about Viper was learning how and why the combos worked the way they did. And it wasn't that those combos were too complicated. It was the piss poor tool tips that didn't do an adequate job explaining what actions comboed into other actions. I had to literally use a striking dummy and do one attack, then look at what popped up and map out the combos that way.
If I had any complaint about the job after I learned it, it would be the weird pacing with the oGCDs. Certain times it felt slow with no oGCDs to fill the time and then BAM! You have to double weave. It's a silly gripe, but that's kinda my point. Viper didn't need this change. It just needed some updates to the tool tips.
You guys are missing a new strategic option that this change opens. With the removal of the debuff and the extension of the buffs, it is now possible, and in fact optimal, to double reawaken in every 2 minute window except for the opener. It was technically possible in old VPR but very difficult to set up without intentionally over capping the debuff, which doesn’t feel great (the theory crafting had you start the burst window with the Death Rattle combo to refresh everything but doing so would likely push an Ouroboros out of the buff window if you double reawaken.). It still requires some foresight and careful resource management to ensure you have 50 on hand but don’t overcap when the window opens up. The class is easy in a vacuum but raiding is a team sport.
And let’s be real, the fun part of the class fantasy of VPR is to reawaken as much as possible, which these changes enable. I didn’t hate managing the debuff much like I didn’t hate having to manage Huton, but I’m not sad to see either of them go.
Double reawakening in 2mins was what every decent viper was already doing and encouraged to do. It's even in the balance sourced guide. I don't know what you were doing before but setting up NG for double reawakening was the crux of the rotation
@@Polychromatic8 it was, but this video boiled it down to, “just press reawakening when it’s up”. I don’t want to knock the opinion in the video too hard, but VPR does have more depth than “press the glowing button”. The changes just make the setup for double reawakening a little easier to pull off without overlapping or dropping a buff due to negligent prep. I also think there’s some potential to the idea of completely cutting death rattle out of the window, double reawakening, and using spending uncoil to fill the rest. Before it felt really tight trying to do that without either intentionally over capping the debuff right before the burst window or dropping a buff/debuff mid window.
You’re right, this was all technically possible under the old system, but it was finicky in a way that, while I didn’t hate it, I’m also not sad to see it go. Reawakening sis the class fantasy to me, and I’m ok with seeing the focus shift to doing that more freely.
Do remember that devs consider japanese player's concerns first, then the international players.
So even if international players are not fine with the changes, devs don't care as long as Japanese players are satisfied.
So the Japanese players could wake up one day, say that my main job sucks and they'd change it? That kinda sucks, man. I feel sorry for viper players and I'm scared for the future of reaper. But for now, reaper is perfect.
“Im rerolling back to samurai”
Oh you poor, poor soul 😂😂
It feels like such a small change but completely mind numbed the job for me... Played Ninja for the past 2 expansions or so and got bored of it a little bit.. was hoping Viper to be the new go-to job but now I'm just completely lost lmao
I’ll take “easier job rotations” and more in depth boss mechanics any day tbh. Needing a hard to play job with hard boss fights is ridiculous tbh. The game is still amazing regardless so enjoy it.
I’m kind of mixed on it. I liked the feeling of properly prepping Noxious Gnash for double reawaken and getting punished for messing it up or potency loss for overcapping but at the same time, I like that Deaths Design isn’t on both enshroud jobs. I guess I can live with Noxious being gone since I was more worried about losing the positionals on the dreadwinder follow ups.
Now it's like summoner perfect super casuals need love to lol.
I prefer how used to work before this patch, It made me paying attention to buffs and debuff on the boss and when you managed to that well, was quite satisfying... It wasn't that hard tho, but I enjoyed it enough to change from mch to vpr.
Right now, I feel I can still having fun with it, but at the same time, the job got so simplified that I feel doesn't matter which buttons I press, that will works anyway
This is why we can't have fun...
I like the changes, swapping targets and transistions felt bad before. Given that Death's Design is the one reason I did not main RPR before I might be kind of biased though.
Thing is i preferred noxious gnash only cause it was part of the combo itself whilst death's design is just an awkward side button, but i just think the job is even blander now sadly
I didn't even get enough time before the change, them changing the class with it being a week old seems to fast and I think they jumped the gun a bit to early. Plus why rename skills? we had cool skill names now we have generic dumb names. Honestly think them making a class purposely brain dead is bad for entire game.
No idea why they changed the names, and i am also under the impression that this change was a bit hasty. As for braindead jobs, the game DOES need some easier to pickup jobs, but dumbing down what works is not the way to do it, and it does set a scary precedent for future changes we may see in terms of simplifications.
Im kinda mixed about it. I didnt like how for your opener you were kinda just forced to do the first part of your combo for the debuff then you ignore it while you do dreadwinder combo(which refreshes it. It felt more like an inconvenience than anything. I also didnt like how both of your combo starters had different potencys making one clearly superior. I think it woulda been better to put the debuff on something else maybe. Cause i did like the debuff, just not how it was applied.
Fair take tbh!
If i wanted braindead id roll SMN. Its back to MNK for me if im playing melee now. Shame as i love the viper aesthetic
I hate this change for the following reasons:
1. They gave us no notice they'd remove Noxious Gnash and force you to start only following the glowing buttons making it more braindead autopilot, catering to the lowest common denominator of people who aren't willing to learn the job properly,
2. Removing NG disconnects Dreadwinder- no, sorry, Vicewinder (eugh) and Vicepit from the rest of the kit and even to some degree Reawaken,
3. Making it an endless combo changes it from 2 buttons to watch to now constantly watching the hotbar to make sure you don't misinput also getting you trapped in a neverending combo that also is easy to lose your place thanks to transforming buttons or shifting your mental focus elsewhere like Vicewinder or a boss encounter,
4. There was expression on when and how you apply NG, like do you double up at the start or do you continue alternating? Do you start Reawaken or go for an Uncoiled Fury depending on your time? Did you set yourself up in advance with enough time and/or a Dreadwinder? That kinda stuff.
5. It wasn't replaced with anything, it was just taken out and given a band-aid solution to keep the general rotation going without thinking about the ripple effect it would have,
6. Noxious Gnash served as a better visual queue for whether you needed to start on 1 or not, and then you got to choose when to start on 2. That was fully in your control before, now it's not, which leads to my last point:
7. A lot of the "free-flow" identity of the job got destroyed and replaced with something spammier and more monotonous and clunky to play. There was more emphasis on setup and payoff (properly managing NG timing) that required some actual skill that paid off in heavier-hitting Reawakens and Uncoiled Fury's if you knew what you were doing. The nuance was in the fine details and how controlling your NG buff and timing let you control that freeflow of your own accord, but now it's literally only follow-the-buttons. Dumbed down yet smaller margin of error. It sucks.
Change it back to 7.01.
Too many dps jobs have reduced to "press shiny, get shiny treat." I want BALANCE something. Lab things. Theory test rotations. Find dps sheningans. Thats what made monk so fun for me before. I don't have the herpaderp friends to shoot the crap with in this game. I need DEPTH. Even its only a foot deep.
AMEN BROTHER
I’m surprised by how many open keybinds I have on my viper compared to all the other jobs I play. It’s so simple but I do love the duel wielding swords
I question whether people who are comparing VPR to SMN have actually played SMN. Yes, it’s easier, but it’s not SMN.
-Sincerely,
A former SMN main (2.1-6.5)
Again...SE is good, but they do have a habit of "fixing" stuff that works.
I mean if its not broken dont fix it... SE is kinda backwards on that.
at this point the combo timer takes more thought than any other part of the job, youll drop your combo if you dump coil after your first reawaken instead of finishing the first combo from your initial dread>hunters
that said i have zero faith in the 8.0 reworks if this is the kind of feedback theyre working with
Honestly VPR is the first time on all jobs I just feel it’s…a nothingburger.
PCT for instance is stupid easy but it feels satisfying. They also thought about it for lower level content. You can still play the lvl 50 dungeons and raids. VPR has 2 buttons….third on lvl 60. It’s just ugh.
I can already forsee VPR being changed soon again. But this change I really don’t get.
Yeah Viper is going to be the new Monk, getting reworked every chance they get lmao
The changes makes the feel of the job overall so much better. Idk why the debuff is being treated as an actual interesting mechanic of the job. It was almost braindead to apply except for causing jank going into the burst phase if not planned for. That to me is more of a chore than an actual fun mechanic of the job.
Tbh I quite like the changes, but I don't like the reason they gave to make them. I would say, Dragoon combos are harder to manage than Viper's
Well no opinion is wrong in this case! - i just personally get bored without some extra management like a DoT or Buff etc
Ironically when I first tried Viper, I truly was totally confused by how it is supposed to do its Combos for like 2h so I can slightly empathize with people complaining. Only slightly though, because once I understood it, it made perfect sense and felt great and very fluid. So instead of agreeing with complaints, I am rather questioning how long those people even tried before giving up and start complaining >_>
Here's hoping they change it back or find some other thing to be interesting. because that new first combo hit buff isn't that
These infinite chains keep distracting me from hitting Serpent’s Tail queue and GCDs, I prefer the combo trees keep rinse and repeat method.
Just simply remove the positionals
Didnt think they could make a melee job more boring than reaper, but here we are.
Honestly? I hate it. More damage, yes, but less fun and I will now drop my combos more since I will fall asleep.
Insanely unfathomably based
it isn't more damage, the potency changes reflect what damage was being dealt with the debuff on enemies.
"the remove the only thing that differentiate a good viper from bad viper" I mean its ONE way but its wasn't the only way, the positionals and how often you hit them correctly / true north was also a way to tell a good viper from bad viper and that is still prevelant.
It's true that those things are a factor aswell, but that can be applied for every melee dps though in terms of positional and true north, Noxious gnash was like Death Design where debuff fall off was punishing for not paying attention or thinking before entering burst phases. But yes those things are the only thing prevelant now really and the resource overcap
Positionals and true north are a must for every good MELEE dps, not just viper.
As soon i saw the patch , i was like "yea, not playing this." And got back gearing up my DRG. I am really concerned with FFXIV future.
But... Isn't samurai just as braindead?
vipor imo is melee version of smn XD
Viper is even more playable and enjoyable. Coming from the FGC, the thought of having to manage a buff with a tiny timer mixed in with other timers on 3 different parts of your screen + keeping track of cd's and rotation is just nothing worth playing. I'd much more value muscle memory learning than this. Some issues remain with this job however - the fact that positionals still exist and that the "two swords" jobgauge is beyond useless and there's no way to remove it cause you need the dots below it for your ranged combo.
It still just feels like a unfinished job too with the way animations are on /vpose and /bstance , the weapon vibrating and looking like a glitchy mess.. This job did not recieve the polish of previous jobs.
On the first part i'd say agree to disagree, as for the job gauge, i just swapped it to Simple mode right away, so it only shows Reawaken gauge + the 3 dots, nothing more
@@Verm1llionz But the one with 3 dots has a tumor attached to it ontop, how do you have it setup?
@@GH3killer Sadly even in simple mode you get the little tumors, but they are an upgrade from having the giant swords on screen
imgur.com/a/Is7eFhS - i personally just have them like this, works for me
What muscle memory do you speak of , you quite literally smash on the glowing attacks
As a healer, viper seems incredibly hard based on how much I need to raise them because they are looking at bars instead of mechanics
The game isn't about the combat system, the entire game is just 1-2-3 with ogcd woven in etc. The fights are all about the dance, they have to keep the combat simple etc. The removal of gnash doesn't make much sense as you keep it up automatically just by doing basic combo's. If anything they should've just simply removed the positionals, as that's what hampers your performance on bosses where you can't get to rear/flank.
Regarding your reasons, they're your reasons, but I find it odd that you reroll to a different dps just because they take away a debuff to monitor when it literally doesn't change any actual gamplay.
Maintaning a debuff that Dread would do automatically is depth? Damn...
That's why i said "The little depth that it had" which is equivalent to a small puddle :)
@@Verm1llionz and what I'm trying to say is that this "depth" would happen naturally just like how you breath. The single press of a button would renew it. Noxious Gnash is Death's Design but worse, because at least you have control over when and how you apply the debuff.
@@twentyfifth_night Well i'm not here to police your opinions! - For me the job was already a lil bit too streamlined, But i wanted to give it a shot, even if Noxious gnash was a Death's Design Rehash. But atleast it was somethin to track - But i'm happy with the reroll either way. SAM had changes for the better in this patch in terms of flexibility and different ways you can refresh, and go into bursts
It wasn't automatic if you played the job well. Before 7.05, you had to choose which combo starter to use based on the remaining duration of Noxious Gnash. Overusing Dread Fangs rather than using Steel Fangs dealt less damage.
This seems to be a very common misunderstanding among people who defend these changes.
@@ToaChronix Because they didn't understand the job nor played it a lot, it added a little depth and something to "track", and that's enough, always jobs have been formed by small things that make them unique and that's why we are heading to the forecasted because they just can't stop deleting these little things that add sauce, even if it's a small amount of sauce, you can still taste it man. Also changing a new job 1 month into an expansion is probably top 2 retardation job balance moment together with the murder of DRK with the shadowbringers rework
Always catering the game towards ppl EVEN below casual...
Honestly really the only hard job in the game is black mage. Let's be fucking real. Everything else is spam, cooldowns and run around lol. They' all are easy. Samurai is not complicated either. It takes about a couple hours of muscle memory going through dungeons to memorize the rotation and opener.
Not really though. Pretty much all the classes take high skill to truly optimize. Double weaving is a must for starters
They broke viper...it was super fun and the buff is JUST LIKE REAPER why the fuck are people complaining...I might reroll reaper or go back to nin cause it's way to easy haha
The more simple the better! Enjoyed it!
Are you from Shiva or Raiden mayhaps?
I am not! But i do play on Light!
googoo gaga story, googoo gaga jobs, gogool ja ja ?
i loved gnash, was way better than rpr death design that just felt clunky awkward stopping combo flow to reapply it.
1:18 "difficult"? the 'hardest' thing about viper starting out was remembering what attack turned into another attack with the same button, thats it lol