The BR 407 (17 units in total) is currently being retrofitted with ETCS Baseline 3. It is, however, already equipped with a „beta version“ of Baseline 2. The reason behind all that is that when the first units were delivered in 2013, ETCS wasn’t as far developed as it is today (obviously). I feel like this whole drama around this issue with the Paris-Berlin service not being able to operate on the Erfurt-Halle section is completely blown out of proportion as so many issues of Deutsche Bahn are. All of these decisions are reasonable if you take a deeper look and actually try to understand how all of it works.
yes, what with this beta version of baseline 2, the BR 407 is not allowed onto the VDE 8; moreover, the riedbahn will soon be out of range of the BR 407
@ No your point about the Riedbahn is not true… First of all, the 407s are currently being retrofitted one by one and I guess it won’t be too long of a gap between the Riedbahn ETCS launch and the last 407 retrofit being completed. Also, for the return-service from Paris to Berlin there wouldn’t be any capacity on the Riedbahn for this service anyway, which froces it onto the Bergstrasse and trough Darmstadt in any case. And last but not least, the Twindexx/BR446 operating on the RE70 Riedbahn service for instance also isn’t equipped with ETCS. Thus, the 407s can still run on the Riedbahn, just at a slightly lower top speed of 165km/h and with PZB. So my point still stands: This whole drama is complete blown out of proportion.
In the next years this line will get faster because of the new high speed tracks: Mannheim-Frankfurt (300kph) Frankfurt-Fulda (250kph) Fulda-Erfurt (230/200kph) And of course the tunnel in raststatt (250kph)
The route from Karlsruhe via Hockenheim - Schwetzingen - Weinheim - Darmstadt - Frankfurt Süd is a good choice, as it is direct and it avoids Mannheim HBF and the busy section Mannheim - Frankfurt-Airport - Frankfurt Süd.
ETCS 3 is very very new. There is a way to deploy it over ETCS 2 to allow co-existence, but not sure if it can coexist with German's proprietary PTZ or whatever is their control system with induction cables along the track to transmit data to train). ETCS 3 is moving block, 2 is fixed block so much easier to coexists with older systems than ETCS 3. ETCS 3 also requires train integrity detection. A car that is lost at the end won't be detected so the rest of train needs to detect if it loses a car and stop to go and get it back. ETCS 2 and older still have track circuits that detect presence of car shorting the tracks so there is no need to have train integrity protection. Have to assume that DB have done homework and planned the upgrades and if some models of trains will be barred fro a line, it would be temporary.
You are confusing ETCS Level 3 with ETCS Baseline 3 specifications. There is not ETCS Level 3 track in operation but some tracks in Germany require Baseline 3 on the trains
These trains look superb (❤) from the outside, but the interior feels so plain and outdated, especially the bistro car! Some soft 'mood lightning' and varied motif paneling would do wonders.
Thanks for the report. I wonder how common is it for ICE Bordrestaurant to actually have things that they advertice on the menu? On last three occasions I rode ICE they pretty much had nothing and only served some wraps and of course beer. It's really annoying when I board a train for a ~6 hour journey expecting to eat my lunch there and then they don't have anything.
How ridiculous, les than 2h of travel time in France for 400km, around 6h in Germany for 500km… a real game changer in slow travel. That is german excellence…
Germany and France designed their High Speed networks differently. It's as simple as that. France was more a style of 'All roads lead to Rome', but instead of roads, we have High Speed Railway and instead of Rome - Paris. Paris is France's biggest and most important city and aglomeration at the same time. This is why France built all High Speed lines connected with the capital in one way or another. Meanwhile Germany has multiple equally important cities and aglomerations - Berlin in the east, Hamburg in north, Munich in south and Cologne Bonn urban region in the west. They already had multiple railroad lines and thus, Germany mostly adapted the existing infrastructure to acommodate High Speed Railway.
@ ok tell me why 2h for 400km in France and 6h for 800km in Germany ? 3 times more. If german railways is so good, why the différence?. Be honest not german.
Apparently, Germany does not dare to upset its best friends in the States, with their Acela being 'the slowest high-speed train service in the world' 😂
I thought they're already fitted with such and are just not certified for running on ETCS routes only in Germany. Not certified does not mean they're not fitted with such.
The fact that a German high-speed train lacks certification for German high-speed lines is the most German thing ever.
of course, it is - crazy, isn't it ?
Given the distance, it makes the whole journey quite slow, although the rolling stock is really high-tech. What a pity 😢
the BR 407 can use most high-speed lines in germany, as long as they equipped with LZB and not ETCS
The BR 407 (17 units in total) is currently being retrofitted with ETCS Baseline 3. It is, however, already equipped with a „beta version“ of Baseline 2. The reason behind all that is that when the first units were delivered in 2013, ETCS wasn’t as far developed as it is today (obviously). I feel like this whole drama around this issue with the Paris-Berlin service not being able to operate on the Erfurt-Halle section is completely blown out of proportion as so many issues of Deutsche Bahn are. All of these decisions are reasonable if you take a deeper look and actually try to understand how all of it works.
yes, what with this beta version of baseline 2, the BR 407 is not allowed onto the VDE 8; moreover, the riedbahn will soon be out of range of the BR 407
@ No your point about the Riedbahn is not true… First of all, the 407s are currently being retrofitted one by one and I guess it won’t be too long of a gap between the Riedbahn ETCS launch and the last 407 retrofit being completed. Also, for the return-service from Paris to Berlin there wouldn’t be any capacity on the Riedbahn for this service anyway, which froces it onto the Bergstrasse and trough Darmstadt in any case. And last but not least, the Twindexx/BR446 operating on the RE70 Riedbahn service for instance also isn’t equipped with ETCS. Thus, the 407s can still run on the Riedbahn, just at a slightly lower top speed of 165km/h and with PZB.
So my point still stands: This whole drama is complete blown out of proportion.
It's so rare that a german train driver blows the air horn. Super driver😊
for that train - if you see trainspotters, they blow their horn to the maximum
Thank you for train ride. Beautiful.
Thanks for the video!
In the next years this line will get faster because of the new high speed tracks:
Mannheim-Frankfurt (300kph)
Frankfurt-Fulda (250kph)
Fulda-Erfurt (230/200kph)
And of course the tunnel in raststatt (250kph)
in the next decades maybe
The route from Karlsruhe via Hockenheim - Schwetzingen - Weinheim - Darmstadt - Frankfurt Süd is a good choice, as it is direct and it avoids Mannheim HBF and the busy section Mannheim - Frankfurt-Airport - Frankfurt Süd.
i think that route is even faster than via the riedbahn
@@doc7austinit is but when the new high speed track from mannheim tofrankfurt is finished then it wont be any longer.
No offence but it’s quite interesting that the train is amazingly fast in French section but amazingly slow in German section.
very VIP place 👍
car no. 29 was closed off for media and VIP
Hello, Nice wiev 💪🚈🚶❤️
Have a nice day ☕
Best regards, Janusz from Warsaw Poland ✌️🇵🇱🖐️
I believe that the LGV Est has ETCS Level 2 signaling so the BR 407 uses it, but only in France.
as far as I understand: the ICE BR 407 uses the TVM/KVB national safety system of France for driving on the LGV Est - not ETCS
ETCS 3 is very very new. There is a way to deploy it over ETCS 2 to allow co-existence, but not sure if it can coexist with German's proprietary PTZ or whatever is their control system with induction cables along the track to transmit data to train).
ETCS 3 is moving block, 2 is fixed block so much easier to coexists with older systems than ETCS 3. ETCS 3 also requires train integrity detection. A car that is lost at the end won't be detected so the rest of train needs to detect if it loses a car and stop to go and get it back. ETCS 2 and older still have track circuits that detect presence of car shorting the tracks so there is no need to have train integrity protection.
Have to assume that DB have done homework and planned the upgrades and if some models of trains will be barred fro a line, it would be temporary.
You are confusing ETCS Level 3 with ETCS Baseline 3 specifications. There is not ETCS Level 3 track in operation but some tracks in Germany require Baseline 3 on the trains
@@pirazel7858 Thanks. I'll have to research on the differences between ETCS 3 and ETCS Baseline 3.
These trains look superb (❤) from the outside, but the interior feels so plain and outdated, especially the bistro car! Some soft 'mood lightning' and varied motif paneling would do wonders.
Thanks for the report. I wonder how common is it for ICE Bordrestaurant to actually have things that they advertice on the menu? On last three occasions I rode ICE they pretty much had nothing and only served some wraps and of course beer. It's really annoying when I board a train for a ~6 hour journey expecting to eat my lunch there and then they don't have anything.
the dining car didn't operate correctly, as the dish washer went broken
How ridiculous, les than 2h of travel time in France for 400km, around 6h in Germany for 500km… a real game changer in slow travel. That is german excellence…
Im not complaining
german section is almost 800 km long
Germany and France designed their High Speed networks differently. It's as simple as that.
France was more a style of 'All roads lead to Rome', but instead of roads, we have High Speed Railway and instead of Rome - Paris. Paris is France's biggest and most important city and aglomeration at the same time. This is why France built all High Speed lines connected with the capital in one way or another.
Meanwhile Germany has multiple equally important cities and aglomerations - Berlin in the east, Hamburg in north, Munich in south and Cologne Bonn urban region in the west. They already had multiple railroad lines and thus, Germany mostly adapted the existing infrastructure to acommodate High Speed Railway.
@ germany is always right, they are always the best… Pathetic german guy
@ ok tell me why 2h for 400km in France and 6h for 800km in Germany ? 3 times more. If german railways is so good, why the différence?. Be honest not german.
viaggio interessante forse non il cibo non era interessante
Apparently, Germany does not dare to upset its best friends in the States, with their Acela being 'the slowest high-speed train service in the world' 😂
well, the TGV Frankfurt-Paris is also extremely slow between Mannheim and Forbach/Saarbruecken
Will they be equipped with ERMTS ?
I thought they're already fitted with such and are just not certified for running on ETCS routes only in Germany.
Not certified does not mean they're not fitted with such.
what i have heard - the ICE BR 407 has ETCS installed, but lost its certification a couple of years ago
406 were allowed to France
were allowed - yes; but currently the BR 406 is not allowed into France anymore
The dining car has been downgraded to a Bistro 😕
not worth it eating there - just convenience food
@@doc7austin It's not so bad. Convenience doesn't mean it's lower quality. At French TGV, the bar is worse and more expensive.