For pulling away as can be seen here, the Haldex system does slightly a better job because it's programmed to lock in drive to the rear axle (There is no center diff) before the car starts moving, so once one axle has grip it'll move immediately. The Haldex has to loosen the clutch to drive the rear axle on bends to stop windup in the drivetrain while the torsen is an actual full time AWD setup, so there's no switching and more consistent handling at the limits as a result. For day to day use, the Haldex uses less fuel and gets all the value of 4WD for towing or on snow or gravel, but all things being equal I'd expect the torsen to do better lap times (For anyone who buys their car with this as the primary purpose). Interestingly as far as I know all the smaller Audis have gone to Haldex for their Quattro systems anyway, so 4Motion vs. Quattro is not the distinction it used to be.
That's true that haldex (and similar systems) must loosen the clutch on bends (with some exceptions) but it doesn't mean it has to open it, it can keep the system in awd mode.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers That's true, but in hard driving there's the chance of running into the issue the Focus RS (The model where the rear final drive is different to the front one so 'drift mode' can be enabled, and it uses a separate clutch to drive each of the rear wheels and the clutches must slip for driving with full traction in all conditions except drift mode) and Yaris GR (Which I think does the same thing but with a single clutch Haldex style) run into where the clutch overheats after a few hot laps and you're now stuck with an understeering FWD, with all the rear drive hardware just being dead weight. Anyone who manages this on a public road (When it's not closed for them to race on) shouldn't be allowed drive public roads at all of course, but it goes back to the Audi Quattro system prioritising out and out track performance, while the Haldex systems give you most of the track performance benefits for long enough many people will never see the limits, with better performance on the low speed stuff real world driving is more likely to encounter, all at a lower cost of ownership. On cost of ownership, Haldex systems can be very unreliable if you miss oil changes, which even VAG dealers have been known to do, while the torsen Audis may not really need any more servicing than the front or rear differential. I don't know how much electronic messing Audi have added to the torsen at this point, but given the original Quattro had no torsens at all but the mid and rear differentials were manually lockable, things have changed with the demands of the expected driving. The fuel economy saving from the Haldex in not driving the rear wheels when the car doesn't need it, combined with the usually lower price of Haldex VW's compared to Quattro Audis is where the cost of ownership is lower.
@@peglor Some cars like mentioned Focus RS or GR Yaris do use overdrive ratio of rear diff. Some use vectoring systems like in Focus RS but with normal ratio (for example Audi, Opel). Some use single clutch haldex style systems with overdrive ratio but the system is programmed to do that only in very specific cases (for example Mazda). During normal driving there are no problems with overheating, they may appear under heavy load. But also in this case, there are systems like Subaru with huge heat capacity, clutch permamently engaged. Torsen is a great diff, very reliable, it's used by many manufacturers (and it's still fully mechanical) but its abilities are limited. Haldex indeed requires a lot of service, there is a lot of similar, more reliable solutions. Edit: I forgot to mention - for fuel savings, it's quattro ultra system which is the most popular now in Audi (>A3/Q3).
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers просто при сильных нагрузках, будь это снег или песок, халдекс может покинуть чат) а механический полный привод будет всегда работать (на трех дифференциалах) имею в пользовании toyota caldina gtt = celica gfour по трансмиссии пости тоже самое, но она была на автомате, сейчас стоит механика + esp (имитации блокировок) от автомата тоже работает, чего нет с завода. P.S. надеюсь ютуб правильно переведет)))
@@izmeni_psevdonim_dyra On sand (and other offroad conditions) - yes, it's not designed for that. On snow it's doing fine. Be aware of the fact that some super cars are using haldex to.
W tej audi podobno już torsen jest wspomagany elektronicznie i dzięki temu quattro zjechało z 3 rolek. Mam a4 b5 w quattro(torsen) i golfa IV 4motion (haldex). Oba bez kontroli trakcji. Moje w nioski są takie, że haldex bezpieczniejszy ale torsen zabawniejszy :P
Ciekawe jakby sie Haldex zachowywał jakby mu kodowanie zmienił na to z RS3, ja sobie zmieniłem i czuje, ze inaczej rusza ale nie wiem cxy to nie placebo :p
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers patrzyłem VCDS to przy kodowaniu z RS3 jest spięty na około 30% przy ruszaniu a nie pamiętam już jak to wygląda przy ori kodowaniu
Nice color of A6. Really like it
Both have exemplary behavior.
Not perfect by any means. Lots of wheelspin. Much worse than mechanical lockers.
Would be good to try on an incline to see if it can supply enough torque to one wheel to pull itself uphill
Due to rollers structure this test is actually harder than the incline: ua-cam.com/video/OB33S9jeMBY/v-deo.html
Expected results. Can do a new test: Torsen vs. Torsen with Sport-Diff on rear axle? 🙂
@@KCKNV If we only find some Audi with rear sport diff...
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers I have one, but in germany 🙂It would be interesting to see what difference the Sport-Diff makes under these test conditions.
@@KCKNV Where exactly in Germany are you?
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers you will get an email from me, we have more interresting cars
Is it quattro ultra on A6?
It's torsen.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers thank you!
For pulling away as can be seen here, the Haldex system does slightly a better job because it's programmed to lock in drive to the rear axle (There is no center diff) before the car starts moving, so once one axle has grip it'll move immediately. The Haldex has to loosen the clutch to drive the rear axle on bends to stop windup in the drivetrain while the torsen is an actual full time AWD setup, so there's no switching and more consistent handling at the limits as a result. For day to day use, the Haldex uses less fuel and gets all the value of 4WD for towing or on snow or gravel, but all things being equal I'd expect the torsen to do better lap times (For anyone who buys their car with this as the primary purpose). Interestingly as far as I know all the smaller Audis have gone to Haldex for their Quattro systems anyway, so 4Motion vs. Quattro is not the distinction it used to be.
That's true that haldex (and similar systems) must loosen the clutch on bends (with some exceptions) but it doesn't mean it has to open it, it can keep the system in awd mode.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers That's true, but in hard driving there's the chance of running into the issue the Focus RS (The model where the rear final drive is different to the front one so 'drift mode' can be enabled, and it uses a separate clutch to drive each of the rear wheels and the clutches must slip for driving with full traction in all conditions except drift mode) and Yaris GR (Which I think does the same thing but with a single clutch Haldex style) run into where the clutch overheats after a few hot laps and you're now stuck with an understeering FWD, with all the rear drive hardware just being dead weight.
Anyone who manages this on a public road (When it's not closed for them to race on) shouldn't be allowed drive public roads at all of course, but it goes back to the Audi Quattro system prioritising out and out track performance, while the Haldex systems give you most of the track performance benefits for long enough many people will never see the limits, with better performance on the low speed stuff real world driving is more likely to encounter, all at a lower cost of ownership.
On cost of ownership, Haldex systems can be very unreliable if you miss oil changes, which even VAG dealers have been known to do, while the torsen Audis may not really need any more servicing than the front or rear differential. I don't know how much electronic messing Audi have added to the torsen at this point, but given the original Quattro had no torsens at all but the mid and rear differentials were manually lockable, things have changed with the demands of the expected driving.
The fuel economy saving from the Haldex in not driving the rear wheels when the car doesn't need it, combined with the usually lower price of Haldex VW's compared to Quattro Audis is where the cost of ownership is lower.
@@peglor Some cars like mentioned Focus RS or GR Yaris do use overdrive ratio of rear diff. Some use vectoring systems like in Focus RS but with normal ratio (for example Audi, Opel). Some use single clutch haldex style systems with overdrive ratio but the system is programmed to do that only in very specific cases (for example Mazda). During normal driving there are no problems with overheating, they may appear under heavy load. But also in this case, there are systems like Subaru with huge heat capacity, clutch permamently engaged. Torsen is a great diff, very reliable, it's used by many manufacturers (and it's still fully mechanical) but its abilities are limited. Haldex indeed requires a lot of service, there is a lot of similar, more reliable solutions.
Edit: I forgot to mention - for fuel savings, it's quattro ultra system which is the most popular now in Audi (>A3/Q3).
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers просто при сильных нагрузках, будь это снег или песок, халдекс может покинуть чат) а механический полный привод будет всегда работать (на трех дифференциалах) имею в пользовании toyota caldina gtt = celica gfour по трансмиссии пости тоже самое, но она была на автомате, сейчас стоит механика + esp (имитации блокировок) от автомата тоже работает, чего нет с завода. P.S. надеюсь ютуб правильно переведет)))
@@izmeni_psevdonim_dyra On sand (and other offroad conditions) - yes, it's not designed for that. On snow it's doing fine. Be aware of the fact that some super cars are using haldex to.
Should the last test be only with passenger side rear tyre since it has the least weight?
I don't think it would do any difference.
which vehicle has HALDEX and which vehicle has TORSEN technology according to your title?
@@cb500 Arteon - haldex, A6 - torsen.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Thank ! 🙏
W tej audi podobno już torsen jest wspomagany elektronicznie i dzięki temu quattro zjechało z 3 rolek. Mam a4 b5 w quattro(torsen) i golfa IV 4motion (haldex). Oba bez kontroli trakcji. Moje w nioski są takie, że haldex bezpieczniejszy ale torsen zabawniejszy :P
Nie ma torsenów wspomaganych elektronicznie. Jedyne, co może go wspomagać to kontrola trakcji / EDL.
Найдите 100 c4 и a6 c4 quattro для тестов
It's hard to find it...
Коли вже буде Mitsubishi Pajero Sport 1 він же (Montero Sport, Challenger, та Shogun Sport)???
It's all up to volunteers.
Witam.
Czy jest możliwość sprawdzić czy audi q5 quattro 2015 ma vektorowanie momentu obrotowego .
Może po typie pompy ABS ?
@@bartekmakowski6913 Witam, rozumiem, że pytasz o XDS. Niestety nie wiem, w jaki sposób to sprawdzić.
👍
Ciekawe jakby sie Haldex zachowywał jakby mu kodowanie zmienił na to z RS3, ja sobie zmieniłem i czuje, ze inaczej rusza ale nie wiem cxy to nie placebo :p
A w jakim modelu?
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Passat B8 czyli Haldex V generacji jak w Arteonie
@@franekr997Nie masz możliwości podglądu jakimś programem, jakie są różnice?
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers patrzyłem VCDS to przy kodowaniu z RS3 jest spięty na około 30% przy ruszaniu a nie pamiętam już jak to wygląda przy ori kodowaniu
@@franekr997 Mowa o spięciu z gazem w podłodze czy inicjalnym przed ruszeniem?
Итог этого видео, ESP на AUDI это хреновая вещь 😂