@@moniquemoors1974 yes cheaper for sure, bikes have become way too expensive. That doesn’t mean cheaply built though, just focus on building basic bikes without all the unnecessary stuff.
On the same week I test rode a z900rs and a cfmoto 450 MT, two completely different bikes. The giggles I got out of the CF were immensely superior to the ones i got on the z900rs... I just remember being in the CFMoto riding around in b-roads and thinking towards the test-ride dudes: let me go into this ditch please... I never did off road with any of them... hell I never did any offroad. (period). Just the sheer sense of confort and security that CFmoto of them passed onto me was amazing. The Z900rs , getting me always nervous, wanting to ride fast past the "legal" (and my own) limits, making each corner/roundabout a red warning zone in my head... the cfmoto making me want to just go trought (yes... just go ahead through them) the same roundabouts with a smile.
@@west_adv - The F450GS has a 19/17 wheel setup as a best compromise between road and off road riding. If BMW gave it 21/18 wheels to be better off road, the road performance would be that of a dual sport instead of an ADV bike. The F450GS has a lot of ground clearance and suspension travel. It should be very good off road.
@@UltralightMotorcycleCamping I had G310GS and I know that 19 inch front is unacceptable for me, becuase I'm riding too many sand roads. 21 is much superior in sand and mud. On tarmac both work good enough for me.
I have owned many big GS's & still own a 1200GS, BUT I've also got myself a 450MT for the days when I really shouldn't be taking the GS. Perfect stable mates
how does the suspension feel? I read the suspension massively improves if you put linear springs instead of the soft progressive springs it comes with. They have too much sag ...
@@MaverickAus so you have the same problem, your springs sag into the harder part ... quite fascinating that they couldn't figure that out from the factory
For the last 10 years I've gone from running my xr650r off road to my kdx200. My daily commuter was a Honda St1100 or Bandit 1200 land is now my 1st bike I bought near 20 years ago. My Ninja 250. In fact I've have gone on 4 over 1000 mile trips on it. And I just got back from a 3600 trip on a 79 Xl125 frame with a 300cc cg clone swap in it. I'm 40 and the last few years have been a blast. Small bore, back road, moto camping across the US.
I’m bought my WR250R in 2013. I was hoping there was a 450 but no. I’m still using it for adventure riding. Really sucks on the freeway but once on the trails it’s fun. Great news there will be more to choose from.
The one thing I just realized these days ... I’d love a 450ish twin adventure bike, one that’s light with proper suspension and stuff. And while these new announcements are good, they’re not exactly that light. Sure, lighter, but not that light. And then it hit me, if they want to make the A2 power limit of roughly 48hp, which is a decent amount, these bikes will never get any lighter. Because A2 also has a power to weight ratio limit. So, I’d love to see these small ADV bikes become proper light machines ... but I don’t think we’ll get there anytime soon. I’m sure they could build them ... but then they wouldn’t be A2 compliant, so ... it’s probably not worth it for the manufacturers. Hope I’m wrong though.
Maybe the solution to the "unicorn ADV" bike formula is make it even lighter (around 150kg wet) but slightly lower the power (around 35-40hp, but torquey). Should still be around A2 specifications and be a true 50/50 adventure tourer if designed properly. I'd take a weight reduction option over bigger power any day especially in this category of bikes. Additional power is always easier to add later on than reducing a significant amount of weight on the bike.
The new DRZ400 is exactly what you are describing, but I'm sure people will be cranky that it's a dual sport and a 5 speed or whatever. There is always a compromise, I don't think an adventure tourer, especially one that tours well, can be as light and good for offroad as a dual sport.
@@moniquemoors1974 they used to make a KLE500! I suspect that if it was the bike everyone wanted, it wouldn't have been discontinued. Perhaps times have changed
@@pimozidecentre9189 5 speed won't be a problem as far as it is wide ratio. I have CRF300L and I barely use 1st gear, so I believe that with stronger engine it cam ba managed.
I’m running a ‘23 KTM 390 Adventure. I’ve half considered moving up in size, but I really feel it’s the sweet spot for me. Enough to be adventurous and enough to be practical on the daily. That said…these new bikes are awfully enticing ❤
Yamaha 500 Tenere that will fit a guy with a 31 inseam. That BMW looks promising as they do a good job with their bigger bikes to get them lower, but don't think they will be priced like the CF Moto.
Nothing will be priced like the current CF Moto. Not even CF Moto. I don’t think we’ll ever see such aggressive pricing again from anybody. What an incredible bargain.
The F450GS will cost a LOT more than the CF Moto 450 Ibex, but BMW is apparently having TVS build the F450GS in India, so it should be much more reasonably priced than the F900GS or R1300GS. It'll definitely cost a lot more than the G310GS, but you'll know where the money went. There is potential for value at every price.
I’m only 65kg, currently on a 690 however the Tuareg looks the goods and the Rally version looks like they’ve nailed it. Aprilia, you need more dealers in Australia and you’ll sell more bikes. Great vid👍
That Suzuki DRZ promo. Those gentle tiny jumps compared to the Himalayan ads that treat the bike just like the Dukes of Hazard would. Yeeeeeee haaaaaw.
I’m convinced that the future is the smaller, true midrange (400 - 600cc), bike market that includes everything from super sports to adventure machines. Lighter weight with 40 to 50hp+ equals big fun without the fear of losing your licence every time you go out for a spin.👍
That DRZ update is the first bike I ever seriously considered as a replacement for my CRF250L. It seems to be better in every regard, especially the suspension. I'll definitely take it for a test ride. Looks much nicer too, since we're still not getting the fancy headlights from Honda.
After a couple of decades of us all begging for a lightweight off road oriented ADV bike with enough power to comfortably cruise on the highway and being told, "You'll get nothing and like it! Buy our expensive bloated ADV bikes.", all it took was the Chinese trying to manufacture what we wanted and suddenly the Big Moto cartel has caved.
I plan to get the Suzuki DRZ4S simple cost effective and simply does what it says on the tin. Remove and replace the exhaust pipe with complete new system and a big tank from safari and you have a great little adv bike
Consumers want a small CC, light but capable motorcycle, capable of on/off road. But, mainstream manufacturers (KTM, Honda, Yamaha, BMW...) will never deliver that pack with a reasonable price tag. For the moment, the CF Moto 450 MT looks like a winner.
The Big Moto cartel conspired for decades to deny us the lightweight off road capable ADV bike we wanted that was powerful enough to comfortably cruise on the highway. Fortunately, the emerging upstart Chinese companies aren't part of the cartel, so they did their best to make our unicorn bike. That's why we finally have the Toureg 457 and F450GS.
I want one. I’ve had several 1200 GS bikes. Now I have a R 1200 Nine T Scrambler, because it’s light. But it’s limited as to where I can go off-road. This looks like the ticket to ride! 🏍️💨🏁
Aprilia Tuareg 660 Rally makes more sense than standard, it's an offroad bike capable of touring. They have improved the right stuff that owners used to upgrade. The high fender looks much better with that front as well. Definitely my favorite combined with KTM 390 Adventure.
Have had a CF Moto 450MT for about 6 months. The deal breaker for me was the low seat height- 800 mm with shock in its lowest position (I'm on the short side: around 167 cms- bit less than 5'6"). While the 175 kg dry weight is not particularly light, it becomes far more manageable with the low seat height.
Fair comments on the T7 update. The tank movement alone is unlikely to make significant change to the top heavy feel, but they might have also lightened the headlight assembly, and that WILL make a difference. I replaced my T7 rally tower with the Unit-Garage LCD headlight shroud, and combined with the plastic Acerbis tank has pretty much eliminated the top heaviness. I am also not a fan of the electronics changes. Widening the instrument cluster will make fitting a GPS alongside almost impossible, and the only useful thing to come from ride-by-wire is cruise control, which they forgot to add. Just a stupid update in my opinion. So I will reserve my excitement for the 450 twins coming out. The BMW could be the pick of the show if the claimed wet weight of 170kgs is true. It will be based on the same engine as the CFMoto 450MT (which is a ripper) but possibly with better suspension and 25kgs lighter. Now that would be a game changer.
I would hold on to my Tiger 900 and GS for now just for the comfort on longer rides. The light ADV offerings are now so tempting that I will surely get one to be able to go off road more without the stress of having to manhandle a 250+ kg bike on the trail. The new KTM or the F 450 GS would be my options.
These "smaller" bikes just arent light enough. Can buy a 800 for 20kg more... Back in the day, bikes were pretty barebones and the engine/fuel tank would contribute significantly to wiehgt of larger bikes, now there is very little difference. These cc bikes should be MUCH MORE geared towards dirt (see crf) Still love the sound of a single piston 400.
Sadly, EU regulations and Big Moto marketing are the reasons we don't get many features we want. We could have better power to weight ratios but manufacturers need to sell an A2 compliant bike and that won't allow a higher performance power/weight ratio. We'd like more range on ADV bikes but EU regulations require the wet weight to be advertised with the tank full. The marketing departments force smaller fuel tanks on the ADV bikes, either to keep a bike in a lower regulatory weight class, or to make the bike look lighter to ignorant consumers simply comparing spec sheets.
Currently the A2 license enables 175kg with fuel yet the manufacturers make 190-197kg 450cc bikes. Aprilia rs457 and the old XT660r with abs is right at this 175kg limit so it is possible to reach. My guess is they just cheap out on the materials. The new small Gs and KTM 390 adv will be much more expensive than the CF moto for sure yet not much lighter.
I kept hoping for a G310GS Adventure, with larger fuel tank, upgraded suspension and tubeless spoke wheels. The G450GS is most of that, although it apparently has a 14 liter fuel tank that is slightly larger but still too small for an ADV bike. The F450GS is also the same weight of the G310GS with 14 more HP that will allow it to cruise more comfortably on the highway. It also has a big color TFT display, ride modes and all of the miraculous electronic safety enhancements. This looks like a big winner. For a couple of decades, BMW and the rest of the Big Moto cartel ignored our pleas for a lightweight off road oriented ADV bike because they wanted to force us to buy their heavy and expensive mid and full size ADV bikes. Even when forced to make small ADV bikes, they crippled them and marketed them as entry level bikes to get new customers on the upgrade path to their more expensive heavy bikes. The emerging Chinese manufacturers aren't part of the Big Moto cartel so they listened and did their best to make the bikes we wanted - the Kove 450 Rally and CF Moto 450 Ibex. The industry buzz and lost market share is forcing the Big Moto cartel to finally manufacture the bikes we want but they didn't want us to have. Aprilia and BMW were the first to part with the cartel position and KTM already had a 390 Adventure that was mostly in that class. Will the slower and more conservative Japanese Big Four relent and offer a light mid-weight ADV bike or will they lose market share? Honda certainly has the engine and engineering talent to make our unicorn bike, and the BMW F450GS engine is rumored to be a Chinese clone of the Kawasaki 500 transverse twin so it shouldn't be difficult for them, either. BMW Motorrad: I'd like my F450GS in Triple Black, please.
Smaller and lighter is what the market is asking for. The Kove 800x Rally looks interesting, same weight as the CF Moto MT, but twice the horsepower. But off road, that doesn’t really mean much. What I was excited about were the adventure bike offerings from Keeway, Moto Morini and Mondial, all sporting a 450cc twin engine that looks suspiciously like the one in the CF Moto, and if they are as keenly priced, BMW and Suzuki might have missed the boat for this sector of the market. I can’t imagine anyone buying a KTM at the moment, it’ll be too expensive anyway, even if the Bajaj produced motor has not suffered from any of the cheese cam issues of the bigger twin. As an owner of a 90’s Kawasaki KLE 500, I am excited to see its return, although the full details have not been revealed yet.
And such excellent bikes they all are. The looks and the ergonomics and everything. Personally i prefer dual sports or enduro bikes, single cylinders 300-400cc 30 -40 hp and up to 145 klgms. Suzuki DR 650 is a great example and has the power to get the job done. Light bike too . With 300cc bikes i can also travel highways keeping a constant speed at 120-130 klm/h at 7.000rpm no matter uphill and strong winds. But i do know that most bikes nowadays offer a lot that worth it. Ohh did i say? They look great too.😊😊😊best wishes and rides to everyone....
We have a pair of BMW G310GS bikes for moto-camping and gravel road adventures. They are OK, but lack power, so we are keen to see and try the new BMW 450.
BMW G650GS single cylinder was the bike that fit me since I'm a smaller rider. But then I guess they wanted to make more money and killed it. I've waiting for a similar bike ever since.
😆love the synoecism, maybe we're related...probably not. I'm all for lighter rides, in my 70's it helps. Thanks for the great review - old guy in Montana, USA
Lovely overview! Thanks for that. I never care too much about brand new bikes as I always buy good condition used bikes. But exiting to see what I get to choose from in 2030! I love that weight is going down and that the capacity and bhp race is slowing down. However, I really really hope that prices will be lowered as well and that motorcycling will return to its roots: Affordable transportation for people who are a little more adventurous than most car drivers. Recent years trends of making bikes that are basically mobile homes on two wheels and have the price to match excludes the people I most want to be motorcyclists from motorcycling: Young people looking to explore the world on a budget.
Tubeless rims are a must as a solo rider…..Ever tried taking the back wheel off in the middle of no where in a foreign country and it’s going dark and you’re on your own….. Ever hand a front tubed tyre suddenly go down in heavy traffic on a motorway….🇬🇧🏍
@@Motoeuro although tubeless, the wheel and tire will accommodate a tube in an emergency such as a bent rim or a cut tire. Tubeless with a tube on board for emergency for me.
the solution to less or no punctures are road biased tyres like michelin anakees where less of the tyre carcass is exposed as in the case of knobbly tyres.
My first ADV bike was a 360 Husqvarna 8sp, bought for $1,100.00 in 1971! It was street legal, had decent suspension and I rode my first enduro, a mud-fest in Delaware! Remember Ed Hertfelder’s Unaware in Delaware?
I'd given some serious thought to getting a KLX300 and modding it to make it more of an off road oriented lightweight ADV bike, but the F450GS will be good enough off road for my old man adventures and will do much better on road and with long days on the saddle... for close to twice the price. :-/
I love the trends, hope it continues. Though I am not sure I would consider a D4Z, when I can buy a relatively new DRZ 400S. Less electronics, carburetted, less weight, more horsepower, (probably) better aftermarket tanks etc. seems like a better adventure-package to me. What’s the win? Drive modes? Psh. I’m staying on my KLX for now, but market for new machines not being the 701/690 is getting interesting these days!
I think the kove 800x pro is the unicorn where alot of people want to be for the most part. 430 lbs with 95hp. The CF Moto 450MT is almost perfect had it come in a little lighter would be even more desirable. The elephant in the room is the kove 800x pro is based off a KTM engine and longevity is always at play with KTM.
It’s that old problem of a nice lightweight off-road bike but the compromise being a single cylinder that’s not great for the road and service intervals in hours. Now if the GS450 feels light and not top heavy with decent off road suspension with a torquey long service interval twin they could be on to something if it’s at the right price. The Honda CRF450L looked great on paper but was ruined with the low Rev stall. It can’t be that hard to build what we all want !? Great channel 👍😀
I have the Kove 450 Pro. It’s more of dual-sport than an ADV bike as there’s virtually no compromise except on the tightest singletrack which is still doable but just not as fun. Otherwise, it’s an absolutely blast to ride. I’ve pretty much stopped riding my FE501 and only ride the Kove and a KTM 2-stroke. Any heavier and this bike would be out of this sweet-spot of ride-anything-all-day. If lighter, it would need to compete directly with modified dual-sports like the FE501/KTM500. So it’s positioned perfectly as a low-cost substitute to the KTM RFR unicorn at 1/3 the cost. If I were wanting to slog 600km days on the highway with some dirt roads, I’d rather just go big get a GS 1300 and be comfortable. No need for anything between the Kove and a GS. Now, the KTM690…always an interesting choice - heavy, less range than the Kove, but the power makes it a ton of fun. But it’s more of a novelty vs. a true 10 hr. off-roader.
The Suzuki DR-Z4S with 151 kg looks really interresting to me 💛🖤🤍 Price and service intervals are key for me. Tyre size and full adjustable front and rear suspension are a PRO. As a T7 Rally Edition owner I recognised the missing Akrapovic exhaust on the new T7 Rally and may invest in the 23 L Acerbis tank, which will reduce the tank's weight as well. I don't need a new T7 💙💛🏁🤛🏼
I bought an Aprilia Tuareg 660 in 2022 for long distance back road, continental touring, (with quite a bit of luggage.) Now I have had plenty of miles in the saddle to make an informed choice. A 450 cc bike would be just the ticket , if I didn't have a weeks worth of stuff on the bike so I'll stuck with what I've got for now.......
Your observations are spot on, for me the 450MT is leading the way, 390 ADVR looks good, has cruise, better for taller riders, BMW 450, a great starter bike for Tarquin, The new Tenere is the old Tenere with a bit of plastic surgery, Moto Morini look to have licensed the MT engine for their 450, which looks nice. Overall I like that there are more options. I love my 450MT, It is just so much fun. What happened to your finger?
@@Motoeuro This made ma laugh! (not the injury, obviously) My 11 yo girl sprayed bathroom with blood after failed attempt of sharpening a pencil using pocket knife. I wish you the same quick healing time as she had.
Not so sure about your comments on the T7 COG. If you fill a World Raid with just 16 litres it feels a lot less top heavy than a T7 with a full 16 litres in its tank. Frankly it feels to me like a totally different bike (even though it does have longer suspension it still feels more wieldy even standing still which is rather odd ) and if you are using it for green lanes or for pure off road you don't need to fill the tank further, although it is great to have the option for longer road trips. The thing I really don't get about the 450's is that they are all as heavy as the 600 (AJP PR7) and 690/701. If they were 130 Kilos max then it might make sense but otherwise apart from the A class learners needing 47 BHP what is the point?
DRZ-4s = YES! Once again you are spot on. The Aprilia has my interest piqued for certain and the Chinese bikes are definitely going to capture more and more market share (as well as the Himalayan). The BMW concept 450 along with the KTM 390 ADV r LOOK amazing but…too pricey or too finicky to put it nicely. Most everything else is refresh: transalp, Tenere etc. Blah to those frankly.
I appreciate that the Kove 450 Rally has eight gallons of fuel capacity, the air filter is on top and is quick and easy to access, the plastic fairings can be individually removed and installed with quick quarter turn dzus fittings, etc. There are 46 stainless socket head cap screws and six plastic fairings to remove to do just about anything on my BMW G310GS, and I hate the cross threading nut plates that make reassembly a frustrating nightmare.
Much appreciate your 450 update..yes, a good bit of scrambling by some of the players to get in the game. As for me, I have had my deposit in to CFMoto for what seems like forever here in the States with first deliveries still down the road..maybe March?! The BMW possibility looks promising but will, no doubt, cost much more than the fairly elegant out of the box 450MT/Ibex450.
Coming back to trail bikes after too long it's a shock how heavy these bikes are, even the sub-six hundreds. My vote goes to the AJP PR7. The DR-Z looks promising but will be nowhere near as comfortable!
Ha !! ...your serious injury results from cooking? .. or tying to cook ? 🤣 Let's hope that more manufactures are developing interesting, lightweight bikes in the 450 to 650 ccm range !!! It's possible ...remember over 10 years ago ... the BMW 650 X-Challenge or X-Country...53 HP, 60 Nm, ABS and 160 kg ... who needs more ? Apart from this - congratulations from the South of Germany !!!! Your reviews are fantastic !!! absolutely the best on FB !!!
Pondering moving from my T7 to the excellent Himalayan 450, but was just waiting for EICMA to make sure there wasn’t a true unicorn about to land……… DRZ400 Rally anyone?……🤔
To me, DRZ400S tuned with a sport exhaust, to get just a little over 40hp and for God's sake, a better looking headlight , would be the perfect bike in most of the situations i'd be riding.. cant wait for the price, but heard it could be 8.5k, wich is too much for me, in that case i'll just go and get a used T7 for 8k , wich is also a great bike
The manufacturers are making bikes they can sell in the A2 license category in Europe and because of homologation, they'll sell those same bikes everywhere else, so we're all effectively subjected to nanny state EU regulations. I didn't vote for that. It's regulation without representation.
@@bpatinas1578 I agree with you the big boys are not even trying to make anything like the cf moto 450 mt. I honestly believe they all have a gentleman's agreement to not really ever get anything too spot on so the aftermarket guys can their share. They listen the same way my wife does when you tell them to not do something because it won't work out to well. Everyone wants simplicity, reliability and a lot less weight because not everyone wants to play around with a $20,000 beast that weighs 560-600lbs. Hell if Yamaha had made the T700 a little lighter, a little shorter, put the weight lower and a few more ponies no one would care about the MT 450 other than just to be different.
If a dirt road tourer wants tubeless tires, I understand. But if Aprilia or Yamaha don't have it on a "rally" version, I understand. If you bend to the rim on a rocky path, you will be stopped if you have tubeless tires, but you can drive on if you have tubes in the tire.
Really surprised you didn't talk about the new Himalayan. 400 pounds, tubeless rim version, decent suspension and ground clearance. Thinking about trading in my T7 for it.
@@Motoeuro I'm 5'8". I fixed the height problem with tall boots, lowered bike and lowered seat, and bought tubeless rims, but the top heaviness is a huge problem. I went down 8 times in one day on a remote canyon road in Mexico solo in January, and picking up the bike was a huge struggle each time. Unfortunately the 8th time I broke my leg.
@@Motoeuro Was interviewed about it on the Adventure Rider Radio podcast. Titled “Pinned”. Feb 29, 2024 episode. It’s accessible on the ARR website. For some reason, when I try to add a link to this thread, my message disappears.
Nice,was fun to watch again. personally I think the Honda transalp looks much better with the new headlight. I find the old one very ugly. I don't dare ask, but that finger 🤔🙈
Huelen a marketing !! Jaja . No he tenido oportunidad de viajar con una Bigtrail. Pero salidas off Road , más ligero es mejor . Tal vez un experto le dé igual el peso de su moto , para mí un humano común y corriente con ganas de aventuras , no. La verdad es que me alegro que las marcas vuelvan a la media cilindrada , 400-600 cc! Un equilibrio justo ! Saludos desde Mexico
If the 450s end up weighing as much as a 650 I’ll take a 650 if they can keep the weight down then I’d consider the lighter bike. The DR looks interesting shame they didn’t put a sixth gear on it. Probably not that comfortable for long rides anyway.tubeless tires? Why ever go back to tubes?
Very thoughtful critique. I'm hunting for a smaller ADV as I'm 66 years young. Much in love with my XL1000 Varadero but I need of more practical bike. I'm a Honda devotee but feel let down by their current offerings. The NX500 is likely bullet proof, but it's expensive and under-spec when compared to CF's 450MT, Voge 525, Him 450 and similar. Legacy makers need to rethink.
The NX is pretty good TBH, a used or ex-Demo might work for you. I would wait until end of January ’25, dealers will be desperate for a sale, good luck!
As a Tiger 900 Rally owner, I want to go further off road on a smaller 450/500cc bike that has less tech and tubeless rims. My Tiger had a puncture on the NEBDR this year and we were rolling again inside of 10 minutes by simply plugging it. Any ADV bike should have tubeless rims as standard in my mind.
The new transalp looks like a versys 300 that got its nose booped. Which don't get me wrong, isn't a complete condemnation, the Versys 300 is one of my fave looks in Kawi.
I did my thumb in (tablesaw) so riding is off the table for a bit. At least until I can wear a glove again. So my enthusiasm for new bikes has taken a hit (whereas I'm checking out Saw Stop table saws......). Poop. Hey, were people asking for a taller windshield on the Transalpine?!
Since I don't live in an area with lots of trails around, I'll always need first a long distance bike, then capable of going offroad. If I'm 600km away from home, I want to be able to come back fast. So I don't share the excitement for all the lighter bikes. But hey, to each his own. (I'm currently doing my adventures on a Desert X that ticks almost all the boxes.)
Almost given up riding. My 14 year old BMW GS Adventure was always too tall for me, but now I find that I am not as strong as I once was and I can't pick it up. The Chinese ADV bikes look very interesting, and the prices are so much more sensible. The Big Names could have supplied us more sensible bikes for our later years but they just fanny'd around making the big bikes bigger, and the others too small to be mid-range bikes.
I'm NOT paying these rediculously High dealer Prices, with all their added on BS high freight and prep charges. I'm just installed heated grips and now I'm in the process of up grading the front suspension on my carburated 16 year old 2008 KLR650 that I bought new for $4200. she's has never broken down on me, never not started, never been back to a Kawasaki dealer for repair.
Smaller, lighter, cheaper, simpler. That’s got to be the way forward to encourage new riders.
encourage ANY riders
Cheaper ?
Agreed, and being A2 friendly, it’s a quicker route to two wheels :D Cheers!
@@moniquemoors1974 yes cheaper for sure, bikes have become way too expensive. That doesn’t mean cheaply built though, just focus on building basic bikes without all the unnecessary stuff.
Yeah I agree two strokes need to come back!!!!!!
On the same week I test rode a z900rs and a cfmoto 450 MT, two completely different bikes. The giggles I got out of the CF were immensely superior to the ones i got on the z900rs... I just remember being in the CFMoto riding around in b-roads and thinking towards the test-ride dudes: let me go into this ditch please... I never did off road with any of them... hell I never did any offroad. (period). Just the sheer sense of confort and security that CFmoto of them passed onto me was amazing. The Z900rs , getting me always nervous, wanting to ride fast past the "legal" (and my own) limits, making each corner/roundabout a red warning zone in my head... the cfmoto making me want to just go trought (yes... just go ahead through them) the same roundabouts with a smile.
Every 400 now being compared to the 450mt... That is some respectable achievement.
Yeah, think the big boys have seen how popular and how well spec’d it is - they want a piece of that pie now. Cheers!
@@Motoeuro it's only took them a decade of asking.....
Just a moment of hype. 450MT is too HEAVY and therefore under-powered for its 200kg. So dont know what to compare...
@@MusicMath123 that is a sort of comparisons 👍
And every new bike is beating it, except for price.
When I get to old to pick up my T7 and want to downsize that BMW 450 has got my interest.
I’m there. My Tuareg is getting heavier every month
I wouldn't be surprised if Yamaha decided to release a Tenere 400 and redesign the R3/MT-03 engine at the same time up to 400cc
Get the low slung safari tanks and you won't need a new bike at all!
@212driller Yeah, they look good but I'm in NZ so 16 litres is plenty and I think they cost 2 or 3 thousand, might just have to grin and bare it.
That BMW looks absolutely badass.
yes, apart of the 19 inch front if I saw correctly
@@west_adv - The F450GS has a 19/17 wheel setup as a best compromise between road and off road riding. If BMW gave it 21/18 wheels to be better off road, the road performance would be that of a dual sport instead of an ADV bike. The F450GS has a lot of ground clearance and suspension travel. It should be very good off road.
I’ll take tubeless 19 over tubed 21 all day long …
@@UltralightMotorcycleCamping I had G310GS and I know that 19 inch front is unacceptable for me, becuase I'm riding too many sand roads. 21 is much superior in sand and mud. On tarmac both work good enough for me.
The price will be interesting. Because they know the success of the cfmoto 450.
I have owned many big GS's & still own a 1200GS, BUT I've also got myself a 450MT for the days when I really shouldn't be taking the GS.
Perfect stable mates
I bought the 450MT 3 weeks ago, very happy so far.
but not for too long, mate .... sorry to hear about your loss ...of money🙏🏾
how does the suspension feel?
I read the suspension massively improves if you put linear springs instead of the soft progressive springs it comes with. They have too much sag ...
@kloppskalli At the slow speed I ride, it feels like a rock. I'll set the sag soon.
@@MaverickAus so you have the same problem, your springs sag into the harder part ... quite fascinating that they couldn't figure that out from the factory
Put some video of it on YT
For the last 10 years I've gone from running my xr650r off road to my kdx200. My daily commuter was a Honda St1100 or Bandit 1200 land is now my 1st bike I bought near 20 years ago. My Ninja 250. In fact I've have gone on 4 over 1000 mile trips on it. And I just got back from a 3600 trip on a 79 Xl125 frame with a 300cc cg clone swap in it. I'm 40 and the last few years have been a blast. Small bore, back road, moto camping across the US.
I’m bought my WR250R in 2013. I was hoping there was a 450 but no. I’m still using it for adventure riding. Really sucks on the freeway but once on the trails it’s fun. Great news there will be more to choose from.
The one thing I just realized these days ... I’d love a 450ish twin adventure bike, one that’s light with proper suspension and stuff. And while these new announcements are good, they’re not exactly that light. Sure, lighter, but not that light. And then it hit me, if they want to make the A2 power limit of roughly 48hp, which is a decent amount, these bikes will never get any lighter. Because A2 also has a power to weight ratio limit.
So, I’d love to see these small ADV bikes become proper light machines ... but I don’t think we’ll get there anytime soon. I’m sure they could build them ... but then they wouldn’t be A2 compliant, so ... it’s probably not worth it for the manufacturers. Hope I’m wrong though.
Maybe the solution to the "unicorn ADV" bike formula is make it even lighter (around 150kg wet) but slightly lower the power (around 35-40hp, but torquey). Should still be around A2 specifications and be a true 50/50 adventure tourer if designed properly. I'd take a weight reduction option over bigger power any day especially in this category of bikes. Additional power is always easier to add later on than reducing a significant amount of weight on the bike.
The new DRZ400 is exactly what you are describing, but I'm sure people will be cranky that it's a dual sport and a 5 speed or whatever. There is always a compromise, I don't think an adventure tourer, especially one that tours well, can be as light and good for offroad as a dual sport.
I think kawa wil release a ofroud 500 twin
@@moniquemoors1974 they used to make a KLE500! I suspect that if it was the bike everyone wanted, it wouldn't have been discontinued. Perhaps times have changed
@@pimozidecentre9189 5 speed won't be a problem as far as it is wide ratio. I have CRF300L and I barely use 1st gear, so I believe that with stronger engine it cam ba managed.
I’m running a ‘23 KTM 390 Adventure. I’ve half considered moving up in size, but I really feel it’s the sweet spot for me. Enough to be adventurous and enough to be practical on the daily. That said…these new bikes are awfully enticing ❤
Yamaha 500 Tenere that will fit a guy with a 31 inseam. That BMW looks promising as they do a good job with their bigger bikes to get them lower, but don't think they will be priced like the CF Moto.
a BMW also resells at a much higher price 😊
Nothing will be priced like the current CF Moto. Not even CF Moto. I don’t think we’ll ever see such aggressive pricing again from anybody. What an incredible bargain.
The F450GS will cost a LOT more than the CF Moto 450 Ibex, but BMW is apparently having TVS build the F450GS in India, so it should be much more reasonably priced than the F900GS or R1300GS. It'll definitely cost a lot more than the G310GS, but you'll know where the money went. There is potential for value at every price.
I’m only 65kg, currently on a 690 however the Tuareg looks the goods and the Rally version looks like they’ve nailed it. Aprilia, you need more dealers in Australia and you’ll sell more bikes.
Great vid👍
That Suzuki DRZ promo. Those gentle tiny jumps compared to the Himalayan ads that treat the bike just like the Dukes of Hazard would. Yeeeeeee haaaaaw.
I’m convinced that the future is the smaller, true midrange (400 - 600cc), bike market that includes everything from super sports to adventure machines. Lighter weight with 40 to 50hp+ equals big fun without the fear of losing your licence every time you go out for a spin.👍
That DRZ update is the first bike I ever seriously considered as a replacement for my CRF250L. It seems to be better in every regard, especially the suspension. I'll definitely take it for a test ride. Looks much nicer too, since we're still not getting the fancy headlights from Honda.
Same, Im really looking forward to the test rides and reviews of the DRZ and especially how the 5 speed (hopefully wide ratio) gearing is set up.
That BMW 450 looks like a smart move.
All of the sudden 450 is IMPORTANT Eh!!!
After a couple of decades of us all begging for a lightweight off road oriented ADV bike with enough power to comfortably cruise on the highway and being told, "You'll get nothing and like it! Buy our expensive bloated ADV bikes.", all it took was the Chinese trying to manufacture what we wanted and suddenly the Big Moto cartel has caved.
I plan to get the Suzuki DRZ4S simple cost effective and simply does what it says on the tin. Remove and replace the exhaust pipe with complete new system and a big tank from safari and you have a great little adv bike
Consumers want a small CC, light but capable motorcycle, capable of on/off road. But, mainstream manufacturers (KTM, Honda, Yamaha, BMW...) will never deliver that pack with a reasonable price tag.
For the moment, the CF Moto 450 MT looks like a winner.
What about the crf300L
The Big Moto cartel conspired for decades to deny us the lightweight off road capable ADV bike we wanted that was powerful enough to comfortably cruise on the highway. Fortunately, the emerging upstart Chinese companies aren't part of the cartel, so they did their best to make our unicorn bike. That's why we finally have the Toureg 457 and F450GS.
I want one. I’ve had several 1200 GS bikes. Now I have a R 1200 Nine T Scrambler, because it’s light. But it’s limited as to where I can go off-road. This looks like the ticket to ride! 🏍️💨🏁
Aprilia Tuareg 660 Rally makes more sense than standard, it's an offroad bike capable of touring. They have improved the right stuff that owners used to upgrade. The high fender looks much better with that front as well. Definitely my favorite combined with KTM 390 Adventure.
I am the outlier. Smaller, lighter is better. Waiting for a 450 with KTM style tank on the bottom. Light and low center of gravity the Unicorn bike.
himalayan is also what makes the market turn around. it is very capable, less maintenance then the MT450 and in my opinion better built quality
Yes sir, Suz nailed it….almost😅
450 is perfect!
Have had a CF Moto 450MT for about 6 months. The deal breaker for me was the low seat height- 800 mm with shock in its lowest position (I'm on the short side: around 167 cms- bit less than 5'6"). While the 175 kg dry weight is not particularly light, it becomes far more manageable with the low seat height.
Fair comments on the T7 update. The tank movement alone is unlikely to make significant change to the top heavy feel, but they might have also lightened the headlight assembly, and that WILL make a difference. I replaced my T7 rally tower with the Unit-Garage LCD headlight shroud, and combined with the plastic Acerbis tank has pretty much eliminated the top heaviness.
I am also not a fan of the electronics changes. Widening the instrument cluster will make fitting a GPS alongside almost impossible, and the only useful thing to come from ride-by-wire is cruise control, which they forgot to add. Just a stupid update in my opinion.
So I will reserve my excitement for the 450 twins coming out. The BMW could be the pick of the show if the claimed wet weight of 170kgs is true. It will be based on the same engine as the CFMoto 450MT (which is a ripper) but possibly with better suspension and 25kgs lighter. Now that would be a game changer.
I hear ya! The extra teach-package is not needed IMHO and that new screen is crazy big, but I guess thats what they think we want!
Why can't someone make an adventure bike that looks like a cruiser
I would hold on to my Tiger 900 and GS for now just for the comfort on longer rides. The light ADV offerings are now so tempting that I will surely get one to be able to go off road more without the stress of having to manhandle a 250+ kg bike on the trail. The new KTM or the F 450 GS would be my options.
These "smaller" bikes just arent light enough. Can buy a 800 for 20kg more... Back in the day, bikes were pretty barebones and the engine/fuel tank would contribute significantly to wiehgt of larger bikes, now there is very little difference. These cc bikes should be MUCH MORE geared towards dirt (see crf)
Still love the sound of a single piston 400.
Sadly, EU regulations and Big Moto marketing are the reasons we don't get many features we want. We could have better power to weight ratios but manufacturers need to sell an A2 compliant bike and that won't allow a higher performance power/weight ratio. We'd like more range on ADV bikes but EU regulations require the wet weight to be advertised with the tank full. The marketing departments force smaller fuel tanks on the ADV bikes, either to keep a bike in a lower regulatory weight class, or to make the bike look lighter to ignorant consumers simply comparing spec sheets.
Currently the A2 license enables 175kg with fuel yet the manufacturers make 190-197kg 450cc bikes. Aprilia rs457 and the old XT660r with abs is right at this 175kg limit so it is possible to reach.
My guess is they just cheap out on the materials. The new small Gs and KTM 390 adv will be much more expensive than the CF moto for sure yet not much lighter.
I kept hoping for a G310GS Adventure, with larger fuel tank, upgraded suspension and tubeless spoke wheels. The G450GS is most of that, although it apparently has a 14 liter fuel tank that is slightly larger but still too small for an ADV bike. The F450GS is also the same weight of the G310GS with 14 more HP that will allow it to cruise more comfortably on the highway. It also has a big color TFT display, ride modes and all of the miraculous electronic safety enhancements. This looks like a big winner.
For a couple of decades, BMW and the rest of the Big Moto cartel ignored our pleas for a lightweight off road oriented ADV bike because they wanted to force us to buy their heavy and expensive mid and full size ADV bikes. Even when forced to make small ADV bikes, they crippled them and marketed them as entry level bikes to get new customers on the upgrade path to their more expensive heavy bikes. The emerging Chinese manufacturers aren't part of the Big Moto cartel so they listened and did their best to make the bikes we wanted - the Kove 450 Rally and CF Moto 450 Ibex. The industry buzz and lost market share is forcing the Big Moto cartel to finally manufacture the bikes we want but they didn't want us to have. Aprilia and BMW were the first to part with the cartel position and KTM already had a 390 Adventure that was mostly in that class. Will the slower and more conservative Japanese Big Four relent and offer a light mid-weight ADV bike or will they lose market share? Honda certainly has the engine and engineering talent to make our unicorn bike, and the BMW F450GS engine is rumored to be a Chinese clone of the Kawasaki 500 transverse twin so it shouldn't be difficult for them, either.
BMW Motorrad: I'd like my F450GS in Triple Black, please.
Smaller and lighter is what the market is asking for. The Kove 800x Rally looks interesting, same weight as the CF Moto MT, but twice the horsepower. But off road, that doesn’t really mean much. What I was excited about were the adventure bike offerings from Keeway, Moto Morini and Mondial, all sporting a 450cc twin engine that looks suspiciously like the one in the CF Moto, and if they are as keenly priced, BMW and Suzuki might have missed the boat for this sector of the market. I can’t imagine anyone buying a KTM at the moment, it’ll be too expensive anyway, even if the Bajaj produced motor has not suffered from any of the cheese cam issues of the bigger twin. As an owner of a 90’s Kawasaki KLE 500, I am excited to see its return, although the full details have not been revealed yet.
I like the jacket. I like the DR-Z4S. If the SM version comes to Thailand, I'm having one.
And such excellent bikes they all are. The looks and the ergonomics and everything. Personally i prefer dual sports or enduro bikes, single cylinders 300-400cc 30 -40 hp and up to 145 klgms. Suzuki DR 650 is a great example and has the power to get the job done. Light bike too . With 300cc bikes i can also travel highways keeping a constant speed at 120-130 klm/h at 7.000rpm no matter uphill and strong winds. But i do know that most bikes nowadays offer a lot that worth it. Ohh did i say? They look great too.😊😊😊best wishes and rides to everyone....
"dont say it 3x otherwise the camshafts will fail"...hahahaha...so funny, i love your humour!
You deserve 10 times the subscribers you currently have.
Cheers from Seattle
+1 on everything you said about T7 👍...
We have a pair of BMW G310GS bikes for moto-camping and gravel road adventures. They are OK, but lack power, so we are keen to see and try the new BMW 450.
These 41 % more power will make a difference.
BMW G650GS single cylinder was the bike that fit me since I'm a smaller rider. But then I guess they wanted to make more money and killed it. I've waiting for a similar bike ever since.
Kawasaki KLE500 teased. Rally style. 21” front.
Looking at this , I think Yamaha should put a rally seat , tank ect on their WR450 .. probably the most sorted 450 out there.
In America we only get the normal version of the T700, and most of the other bikes are hard to come by.
😆love the synoecism, maybe we're related...probably not. I'm all for lighter rides, in my 70's it helps. Thanks for the great review - old guy in Montana, USA
Lovely overview! Thanks for that.
I never care too much about brand new bikes as I always buy good condition used bikes. But exiting to see what I get to choose from in 2030!
I love that weight is going down and that the capacity and bhp race is slowing down. However, I really really hope that prices will be lowered as well and that motorcycling will return to its roots: Affordable transportation for people who are a little more adventurous than most car drivers.
Recent years trends of making bikes that are basically mobile homes on two wheels and have the price to match excludes the people I most want to be motorcyclists from motorcycling: Young people looking to explore the world on a budget.
Tubeless rims are a must as a solo rider…..Ever tried taking the back wheel off in the middle of no where in a foreign country and it’s going dark and you’re on your own….. Ever hand a front tubed tyre suddenly go down in heavy traffic on a motorway….🇬🇧🏍
Agreed. Tubeless for me!
@@Motoeuro although tubeless, the wheel and tire will accommodate a tube in an emergency such as a bent rim or a cut tire. Tubeless with a tube on board for emergency for me.
the solution to less or no punctures are road biased tyres like michelin anakees where less of the tyre carcass is exposed as in the case of knobbly tyres.
Am I wrong or did you skip the KTM 390 ADV upgrade?
Funny. Informative, and you're right, it was cynical and sarcastic. Funny!
My first ADV bike was a 360 Husqvarna 8sp, bought for $1,100.00 in 1971! It was street legal, had decent suspension and I rode my first enduro, a mud-fest in Delaware! Remember Ed Hertfelder’s Unaware in Delaware?
Spot on, mate! Love your humor, btw.
My 2024 klx300 is perfect
I'd given some serious thought to getting a KLX300 and modding it to make it more of an off road oriented lightweight ADV bike, but the F450GS will be good enough off road for my old man adventures and will do much better on road and with long days on the saddle... for close to twice the price. :-/
I love the trends, hope it continues. Though I am not sure I would consider a D4Z, when I can buy a relatively new DRZ 400S.
Less electronics, carburetted, less weight, more horsepower, (probably) better aftermarket tanks etc. seems like a better adventure-package to me.
What’s the win? Drive modes? Psh.
I’m staying on my KLX for now, but market for new machines not being the 701/690 is getting interesting these days!
Have a desert X. Now looking for a smaller 450-500 to get away from the busy roads. Husqvarna 501 is in my sights…. Keeping the DDX
Excellent video. Love your demeanor
Idk if it’ll be any good bust the bmw 450 looks pretty sick!
You mentioned Spinal Tap and 11 on the gain..Long Live the loud mate.... 😉
I think the kove 800x pro is the unicorn where alot of people want to be for the most part. 430 lbs with 95hp. The CF Moto 450MT is almost perfect had it come in a little lighter would be even more desirable. The elephant in the room is the kove 800x pro is based off a KTM engine and longevity is always at play with KTM.
It’s that old problem of a nice lightweight off-road bike but the compromise being a single cylinder that’s not great for the road and service intervals in hours.
Now if the GS450 feels light and not top heavy with decent off road suspension with a torquey long service interval twin they could be on to something if it’s at the right price.
The Honda CRF450L looked great on paper but was ruined with the low Rev stall. It can’t be that hard to build what we all want !?
Great channel 👍😀
Interesting thoughts👍. Did you ever get sorted with the aprilia you had?
I have the Kove 450 Pro. It’s more of dual-sport than an ADV bike as there’s virtually no compromise except on the tightest singletrack which is still doable but just not as fun. Otherwise, it’s an absolutely blast to ride. I’ve pretty much stopped riding my FE501 and only ride the Kove and a KTM 2-stroke. Any heavier and this bike would be out of this sweet-spot of ride-anything-all-day. If lighter, it would need to compete directly with modified dual-sports like the FE501/KTM500. So it’s positioned perfectly as a low-cost substitute to the KTM RFR unicorn at 1/3 the cost. If I were wanting to slog 600km days on the highway with some dirt roads, I’d rather just go big get a GS 1300 and be comfortable. No need for anything between the Kove and a GS.
Now, the KTM690…always an interesting choice - heavy, less range than the Kove, but the power makes it a ton of fun. But it’s more of a novelty vs. a true 10 hr. off-roader.
The Suzuki DR-Z4S with 151 kg looks really interresting to me 💛🖤🤍 Price and service intervals are key for me. Tyre size and full adjustable front and rear suspension are a PRO.
As a T7 Rally Edition owner I recognised the missing Akrapovic exhaust on the new T7 Rally and may invest in the 23 L Acerbis tank, which will reduce the tank's weight as well. I don't need a new T7 💙💛🏁🤛🏼
I’ll keep my Wee XT! Good power and does well in a little bit of everything. NOT a single track or rocks/ruts machine, for sure. For me that’s great
Thank you for your inspiring Video I think Suzuki DRZ ist the Game changer
5 speed transmission, don't think so!!!
150 kg - enough horsepower and the Rest is a question of the gear Ratio and their coordination
Loving that Suzuki DRZ!! That’s gonna be popular! Don’t mind the the new Alp headlight, but still happy with mine though
Me too 🙌🏽
Yeah, certainly not worth changing! Cheers 2WF 👍
The big disappointment is the DRZ-4S is still a 5 speed, but it's rumored to be a widely spaced 5 speed so that's not too bad.
I bought an Aprilia Tuareg 660 in 2022 for long distance back road, continental touring, (with quite a bit of luggage.) Now I have had plenty of miles in the saddle to make an informed choice. A 450 cc bike would be just the ticket , if I didn't have a weeks worth of stuff on the bike so I'll stuck with what I've got for now.......
Your observations are spot on, for me the 450MT is leading the way, 390 ADVR looks good, has cruise, better for taller riders, BMW 450, a great starter bike for Tarquin, The new Tenere is the old Tenere with a bit of plastic surgery, Moto Morini look to have licensed the MT engine for their 450, which looks nice. Overall I like that there are more options. I love my 450MT, It is just so much fun. What happened to your finger?
Cheers David, well said. Err.... managed to almost slice it off helping a mate put a metal shed together! Pair of fools!!! 😂
@@Motoeuro This made ma laugh! (not the injury, obviously) My 11 yo girl sprayed bathroom with blood after failed attempt of sharpening a pencil using pocket knife. I wish you the same quick healing time as she had.
Not so sure about your comments on the T7 COG. If you fill a World Raid with just 16 litres it feels a lot less top heavy than a T7 with a full 16 litres in its tank. Frankly it feels to me like a totally different bike (even though it does have longer suspension it still feels more wieldy even standing still which is rather odd ) and if you are using it for green lanes or for pure off road you don't need to fill the tank further, although it is great to have the option for longer road trips. The thing I really don't get about the 450's is that they are all as heavy as the 600 (AJP PR7) and 690/701. If they were 130 Kilos max then it might make sense but otherwise apart from the A class learners needing 47 BHP what is the point?
Fair comment, cheers. Ive not tried the T7 WW as yet! Must make an effort to do that, thanks for watching :D
DRZ-4s = YES! Once again you are spot on. The Aprilia has my interest piqued for certain and the Chinese bikes are definitely going to capture more and more market share (as well as the Himalayan). The BMW concept 450 along with the KTM 390 ADV r LOOK amazing but…too pricey or too finicky to put it nicely. Most everything else is refresh: transalp, Tenere etc. Blah to those frankly.
I appreciate that the Kove 450 Rally has eight gallons of fuel capacity, the air filter is on top and is quick and easy to access, the plastic fairings can be individually removed and installed with quick quarter turn dzus fittings, etc. There are 46 stainless socket head cap screws and six plastic fairings to remove to do just about anything on my BMW G310GS, and I hate the cross threading nut plates that make reassembly a frustrating nightmare.
Much appreciate your 450 update..yes, a good bit of scrambling by some of the players to get in the game. As for me, I have had my deposit in to CFMoto for what seems like forever here in the States with first deliveries still down the road..maybe March?! The BMW possibility looks promising but will, no doubt, cost much more than the fairly elegant out of the box 450MT/Ibex450.
@@normananderson2583 yep, BM will be $9k 🥲 good luck with Ibex, first lot in UK Feb/March!
Coming back to trail bikes after too long it's a shock how heavy these bikes are, even the sub-six hundreds. My vote goes to the AJP PR7. The DR-Z looks promising but will be nowhere near as comfortable!
Keeping my 990 adv and wanting to add a couple more.
Want to put s 690 enduro r to the line up as well.
Great review!
1:46 LOL
Ha !! ...your serious injury results from cooking? .. or tying to cook ? 🤣
Let's hope that more manufactures are developing interesting, lightweight bikes in the 450 to 650 ccm range !!! It's possible ...remember over 10 years ago ... the BMW 650 X-Challenge or X-Country...53 HP, 60 Nm, ABS and 160 kg ... who needs more ?
Apart from this - congratulations from the South of Germany !!!! Your reviews are fantastic !!! absolutely the best on FB !!!
Managed to almost slice finger off helping a mate put a metal shed up! He almost lost fingers too! Cheers👍
Pondering moving from my T7 to the excellent Himalayan 450, but was just waiting for EICMA to make sure there wasn’t a true unicorn about to land……… DRZ400 Rally anyone?……🤔
To me, DRZ400S tuned with a sport exhaust, to get just a little over 40hp and for God's sake, a better looking headlight , would be the perfect bike in most of the situations i'd be riding.. cant wait for the price, but heard it could be 8.5k, wich is too much for me, in that case i'll just go and get a used T7 for 8k , wich is also a great bike
a lighter drz with 6 gears or a crf 350 or 400 would be the dream ;)
lol I fully agree… but the lightweight bikes are underpowered… they purposely aren’t making a 350 pound 90 hp adv bike
The manufacturers are making bikes they can sell in the A2 license category in Europe and because of homologation, they'll sell those same bikes everywhere else, so we're all effectively subjected to nanny state EU regulations. I didn't vote for that. It's regulation without representation.
@@bpatinas1578 I agree with you the big boys are not even trying to make anything like the cf moto 450 mt. I honestly believe they all have a gentleman's agreement to not really ever get anything too spot on so the aftermarket guys can their share. They listen the same way my wife does when you tell them to not do something because it won't work out to well. Everyone wants simplicity, reliability and a lot less weight because not everyone wants to play around with a $20,000 beast that weighs 560-600lbs. Hell if Yamaha had made the T700 a little lighter, a little shorter, put the weight lower and a few more ponies no one would care about the MT 450 other than just to be different.
If a dirt road tourer wants tubeless tires, I understand. But if Aprilia or Yamaha don't have it on a "rally" version, I understand. If you bend to the rim on a rocky path, you will be stopped if you have tubeless tires, but you can drive on if you have tubes in the tire.
That’s why I always carry a tube on my Tuareg. The wheel and tire, although tubeless, will accommodate a tube in an emergency.
Really surprised you didn't talk about the new Himalayan. 400 pounds, tubeless rim version, decent suspension and ground clearance. Thinking about trading in my T7 for it.
Yeah, I know! Kinda missed off the AJP PR7 and Fantic too! What’s up with your T7?
@@Motoeuro I'm 5'8". I fixed the height problem with tall boots, lowered bike and lowered seat, and bought tubeless rims, but the top heaviness is a huge problem. I went down 8 times in one day on a remote canyon road in Mexico solo in January, and picking up the bike was a huge struggle each time. Unfortunately the 8th time I broke my leg.
@@LATAMbiker OH WOT???? Thats not good, hope you're ok now!
@@Motoeuro Was interviewed about it on the Adventure Rider Radio podcast. Titled “Pinned”. Feb 29, 2024 episode. It’s accessible on the ARR website. For some reason, when I try to add a link to this thread, my message disappears.
@@LATAMbiker Cheers, will go for a look - All the best :D
The BMW is attractive however still pushing 400 pounds. Specs and the visual are till TBD. I'll stick with my 2018 AT, does it all and does not fail.
Nice,was fun to watch again. personally I think the Honda transalp looks much better with the new headlight. I find the old one very ugly. I don't dare ask, but that finger 🤔🙈
Huelen a marketing !! Jaja . No he tenido oportunidad de viajar con una Bigtrail. Pero salidas off Road , más ligero es mejor . Tal vez un experto le dé igual el peso de su moto , para mí un humano común y corriente con ganas de aventuras , no. La verdad es que me alegro que las marcas vuelvan a la media cilindrada , 400-600 cc! Un equilibrio justo ! Saludos desde Mexico
I'd like to see a tenere 700 engine mounted on a yz 450 frame
If the 450s end up weighing as much as a 650 I’ll take a 650 if they can keep the weight down then I’d consider the lighter bike. The DR looks interesting shame they didn’t put a sixth gear on it. Probably not that comfortable for long rides anyway.tubeless tires? Why ever go back to tubes?
Smaller, lighter, I am 61, I think a had all the bikes, size and power, that’s what matters, and less is better, period.
This is the Japanese car industry moment that China has been waiting for.
Very thoughtful critique. I'm hunting for a smaller ADV as I'm 66 years young. Much in love with my XL1000 Varadero but I need of more practical bike. I'm a Honda devotee but feel let down by their current offerings. The NX500 is likely bullet proof, but it's expensive and under-spec when compared to CF's 450MT, Voge 525, Him 450 and similar. Legacy makers need to rethink.
The NX is pretty good TBH, a used or ex-Demo might work for you. I would wait until end of January ’25, dealers will be desperate for a sale, good luck!
My thoughts exactly - except I am thinking in a foreign language :)
As a Tiger 900 Rally owner, I want to go further off road on a smaller 450/500cc bike that has less tech and tubeless rims. My Tiger had a puncture on the NEBDR this year and we were rolling again inside of 10 minutes by simply plugging it. Any ADV bike should have tubeless rims as standard in my mind.
That KTM is still too heavy.
The new transalp looks like a versys 300 that got its nose booped.
Which don't get me wrong, isn't a complete condemnation, the Versys 300 is one of my fave looks in Kawi.
I did my thumb in (tablesaw) so riding is off the table for a bit. At least until I can wear a glove again. So my enthusiasm for new bikes has taken a hit (whereas I'm checking out Saw Stop table saws......). Poop.
Hey, were people asking for a taller windshield on the Transalpine?!
Feel your pain! Cant remember anyone asking for a taller screen but with such a little update to the Alp, guess they ‘market’ everything!
smaller lighter and capable...that is what we want
Since I don't live in an area with lots of trails around, I'll always need first a long distance bike, then capable of going offroad. If I'm 600km away from home, I want to be able to come back fast. So I don't share the excitement for all the lighter bikes. But hey, to each his own.
(I'm currently doing my adventures on a Desert X that ticks almost all the boxes.)
So, nothing new on a 2025 450MT? Hoping they fix some issues and push the envelope even more. Maybe then I will buy one.
Almost given up riding. My 14 year old BMW GS Adventure was always too tall for me, but now I find that I am not as strong as I once was and I can't pick it up. The Chinese ADV bikes look very interesting, and the prices are so much more sensible. The Big Names could have supplied us more sensible bikes for our later years but they just fanny'd around making the big bikes bigger, and the others too small to be mid-range bikes.
Don’t ask about the finger….. just like the Tuareg 😜
I'm NOT paying these rediculously High dealer Prices, with all their added on BS high freight and prep charges. I'm just installed heated grips and now I'm in the process of up grading the front suspension on my carburated 16 year old 2008 KLR650 that I bought new for $4200. she's has never broken down on me, never not started, never been back to a Kawasaki dealer for repair.
if that CRF was a 450 it would sell like hot cake
Exactly! What wont they do that???? Sigh…..