I'm expecting some criticism along the lines of "you should have pushed harder" or "you should have been more aggressive" in the debate... And I would say that criticism may be warranted in this case and I don't take offense to it. This was a difficult conversation to navigate and I probably made some mistakes in the way I conducted/steered the conversation.
I disagree- I thought you did great! I think you took the path of compassion and, let’s face it, being a witness of what a true Christian should act/talk/speak like. Well done sir. I thought you did great. Our mission is the great commission and this young lady doesn’t realize she’s blind.
In some situations it’s better to push further but the beginning of the talk already was already in bad blood, so I think you managed it as well as you could after continuing the talk. I have said before to be more aggressive in situations but my opinion shouldn’t be taken that seriously because I couldn’t do nearly as well as you with these talks
you did really well hayden, you were extremely polite respectful and professional, you let her speak and you listened and waited till she was done. superior work Hayden.
But what about app the zygotes that never successfully implant in the uterine wall? More people die from that than literally anything else, and pro-lifers don't seem to care.
The crazy thing about the SA argument is that she's fixated on the distinction between consciousness and sentience, but you know who definitely doesn't have any sentience? A dead person. And most people still believe it would be morally wrong to desecrate a corpse in that manner.
It’s always, “I do what I want”, but at the same time they forget God gave her / her pastor free will. So how is that Gods fault, if someone with free will chose? A rhetorical question, but one I ask seriously when having this conversation.
Hey Hayden, I really appreciate how polite and thoughtful in your actions you are. keep the great job and keep treating others with respect. God bless you.
Hayden, you are doing really good work here. The conversation continued as long as it did because of your respectful approach, your knowledge and faith, and the clinic worker’s willingness to listen. What happened to her is devastating and difficult for others to really understand-she was betrayed by the adults in her life and in her church when an innocent child-so it is remarkable that she could have this conversation at all. She, we all, are deeply influenced from very early in life by our schooling and our culture to adopt an atheistic/agnostic worldview and to engage in behaviors that are terribly destructive of ourselves and others, but through conversations like this she may begin to see the Truth. Keep up your excellent and important work.
Everytime I hear the story of a mother putting her life on the line for her born or unborn child, I can't help but tear up. They are true heroes, they are the most loving, and they are among the strongest individuals that ever walked this earth. By a stark contrast, it's truly mind-boggling to me that a group of women simply refuse to take even regular levels of risk associated with a pregnancy and view pregnancy as a disease that needs to be dodged.
An unplanned pregnancy can cause such intense panic and despair, that any rational thinking is out the window. As a pro-life woman myself, I try to empathize with the women who had abortions, and not see them as "less than".
Unfortunately, when people are so desperate as to use scripture totally out of context, they will continue to use the same argument down the road even if they have been corrected on the matter many times over.
Oh boy I was almost in tears for this woman especially towards the end. I'm truly sorry for what happened to you and that someone who is supposed to lead you the way to Jesus Christ instead took you far away from Jesus by misrepresented who He was. I delt with a few people who say their are Christians or say they follow Christ but don't practice what they preach and treating me in a way that I know now is not Christ like. I don't know if you read these comments but I hope and pray that you one day encounter the presence of Jesus Christ and feel and understand His love. Jesus wept for you and He died for your sins as much as me and Hayden. The tragedy you went through is horrible but I truly believe God is just and that man will answer to God come Judgment Day. I'm praying for you and praying you know who Jesus Christ truly is. Thank you Hayden for this video and can't wait to see more. God bless.
Taking the Lord's name in vain is exactly what happened if the story is true, saying ''Jesus forgives sinners, so forgive the pastor and cover up his abominable crime instead of having a fair trial and defending him after the truth is out'' is like saying ''let's forgive the pharisees and join them in torturing and killing our Messiah, then when He rises from the dead we'll preach the Gospel''. Forgiving evil and sinners is one thing, defending and covering evil is evil itself, sin by omission, depending on how bad that sin of omission (like in this case) it can be a mortal sin (the same way you would fall from grace by leaving the faith and becoming a satanists, just saying ''I'm a Christian'' doesn't make you one, just like saying ''I'm a vegan meat eater'' is an oxymoron/a lie, even demons believe and know God, but don't follow Him), calling yourself Christian and practicing mortal sin without repentance, confession and doing the most you can do to make up for that evil means you don't really repent, you just don't want consequences, i.e if you killed someone's son and the parents are poor, supporting them financially if you're able to do so, in this case seeking justice with a fair trial for the pastor and AFTER having the truth come out defending the pastor or seeking justice with castration or life in prison. Martyrs of the faith for thousands of years preferred death over being defiled, I can imagine forgiving my child's murderer out of love for God, but I can't imagine putting myself in the shoes of this woman's parents, especially when he's free to do this to other children again covered by the name of Jesus and His mercy for sinners, it's like saying ''Jesus is to rule the world so we'll kill anyone who doesn't convert because He's king of the universe'', that's evil and against the commandments, in this woman's case ''you shall not commit adultery, you shall not take your Lord's name in vain, you shall not bear false witness, love your neighbor as yourself''. Luke 17:2 It were better for him, that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should scandalize one of these little ones. Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
WOW listening to the end of this video brought me to tears, Hayden you are such a powerful voice for the Lord💜💙❤️ thank you Jesus for real men, that proclaim your Truth with boldness, but also LOVE and respect. Thank you Hayden for what you do. I have been listening to your and others vids trying to learn how to talk to ppl. So much love from Canada 🇨🇦
I agree. She wasn’t listening with an open mind. But she admitted she was on drugs and wasn’t fully following him. Plus Hayden speaks really quickly. Lol.
What a respectful and classy debate. My condolences to the caller who had to endure the aggregious act tha was done to her during her childhood. I hope she seek legal justice for the crime that was done to her. That still doesnt justify her stance and ther actions she is carrying out.
She kept it together pretty well until her logic all fell apart and when she heard the truth she said "ew barf" it's almost like the bible talks about this.. "a little book" LOOOOOL.. so blind..
Praying for her parents and for her. Romans 5:3-4 More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope
I commend you for your efforts to be sensitive to someone who experienced great trauma like she did. Never apologize for empathy and humanity. IMO, it's more important than faith.
17:00 this is the time when you look up the definition of sentience and examine whether her definition of any brain function or processing is correct. Also, reference the fact that lower-level brain function starts between 6 and 8 weeks of pregnancy.
That honestly breaks my heart at 40:30 when she says “Yeah well that didn’t happen.” Not even just as a father to a little girl, but generally this girl deserved justice for what happened to her.
He was super polite while she stated it’s fine to kill babies but she did obnoxious gagging sounds when he would say we are created in the image of god. Sad
It’s funny because in most debates I have seen between Christians vs. non-Christians, the Christians are more polite, tolerant, and considerate almost every time… and yet the prevailing narrative about Christians is that they’re some group of hateful angry bigots. Projection I guess LOL.
@@greenmcbean6429 Because tone is very different to the concepts that are being put forward. If I smile and used a soft tone of voice while saying "you deserve to be tortured for eternity" you will immediately see what we're talking about here.
@@LifeAsALayman Straw manning and we all deserve the consequences of our actions. However we have grace (getting what we don't deserve) and mercy (not getting what we do deserve). Your framing is so biased it's insane.
@asaintnamedslickback Don't you dare accuse me of strawmanning, I gave an accurate description of what Christians believe. You DO say that we deserve to be tortured for eternity, you just add onto it "because of your sins/sinful nature, but you can be saved, etc." This doesn't change the fact that a core tenet of this religion is that everyone deserves to be severely punished. It's manipulative, it exploits people's vulnerabilities, and regardless of a person's tone/demeanour, it's a difficult message to convey without sounding like a prick.
Murder and Death penalty are different..... What a lot of young people who can't comprehend is intention... If you hit a person while driving drunk it could be murder, if you kill someone in your car on accident it could be involuntary manslaughter. If you lose your child in the womb for a reason outside of your own intention, it is an accident. If you forcefully try to remove the child through chemical or physical means it is murder. Your intention matters in all things, but for some reason especially with young women have been taught that they don't have to be accountable. Accountability is the biggest problem in modern society. If you sleep with someone, you are accountable for the outcome, you have an understanding what can happen if you have sex. That is why people should get married, and not do this dating thing.
Good talk! Proud of her for stepping up. Shows courage. Disappointed in the comments section, but most of all proud too have another young fella spreading gods word.
They don't comprehend basic ideas because they don't even acknowledge the inherent value of our very lives. If we are all disposable, then nothing at all matters. If the wanton taking of innocent lives isn't morally repugnant, then nothing at all matters. There can be no moral principle that says that one individual matters and another is disposable but only if and when we say so.
This is very informative, I've met people and more than one or two, that have had experiences in the church with abuse or been abused in general and have a tough time with why God would allow that. It's sad and I understand why that would be hard for her to have faith in God. I think it comes down to accepting people hurt other people, getting help and being vigilant that to be healthy I cannot be a victim
You can tell she just started losing her patience I mean she litterally said “how can you support this genocide?” And Hayden said “and how can you support THIS genocide” and she responded “womp womp”
She isn't being honest. I guess she doesn't want her $100,000,000 inheritance. I bet if she found out about it a year after it's all said and done, she would be suing for it.
Is it wrong of me to not fully believe these people when they claim sexual assault or grape from their pastors? Especially when they claim the whole church was working to cover it up, I feel that they may be defining these terms differently to how they are widely understood.
It's sad we have women like this w literally the mind of children in such impactful position in our society. Its actually frightening. especially how smug they are while they literally cant even follow basic epistemology
I'm sorry but when she says, "I'm a little cooked right now, so it's hard for me to understand..." That's just so incredibly disrespectful. This person is very lost.
While I am agnostic, i can certainly recognize the moral repugnancy of the wanton taking of innocent lives regardless of who the victim is, especially when it is the most innocent and precious little boys and girls. Either our lives matter, or we really do get a so-called choice to decide who is a person and who is disposable. There is no moral principle that says that one individual matters and another is disposable but only if and when we say so.
The problem is that there is no objective good or evil on a secular worldview. One group of people can say human life has intrinsic value and should be protected, and another group could say that human life has no intrinsic value. Unless there is an objective moral law, neither group’s idea of morality is objective, rendering them to be no more than opinions. This is why so many people are just ok with disposing of children in the womb; they have absolutely nowhere to derive solid, moral principles from, and so other people can easily convince them that anything is permissible, even the most heinous of acts like abortion.
@greenmcbean6429 I recognize this contradiction, yet I remain agnostic. I recognize that we ALL have inherent and objective value and this value must come from the Christian perspective, and I've tried to believe in God to reconcile this contradiction, but I just don't believe that God exists. Though I do recognize that we all must have inherent value for the wanton taking of innocent lives to be objectively immoral. This is something I've thought about a lot for at least my 41yrs of life.
@@trentjacobs3957 Out of sheer curiosity, what has caused you to wrestle with the existence of God? I've only been on this earth for 20 years (21 soon)), and I know God is real (in particular, Yahweh and Jesus Christ, the God the Bible describes). Too many times I could've died, and so many times have I been kept. I've seen his word in action and everything, so it does baffle me when someone has wrestled with the thought of his existence for so long.
I respect her having this lengthy conversation despite her different opinion. It shows maturity. I am not sure why prochoicers argue that pregnancy is dangerous and it could cause death. First, our bodies were made to create babies and women have been having babies since the beginning of time. Secondly, driving is dangerous and could end in death, but everyone still drives. There are risks in everything we do. I don’t it is a good argument.
Also it is 2025. Women almost never die due to childbirth anymore, but the pro-murder crowd constantly acts like that’s the main reason they need to allow abortion on demand for everyone (despite that literally making no sense at all).
Im sorry that that terrible thing happened to her and the others will have to pay for what allegedly happened. But using her own logic of sentience then doing that would be acceptable up to a certain age. If a child up to lets say 2 years old would never have a memory of it occuring would be okay by her logic. Its never okay. And she is actually playing the part of co-conspiritor by participating in these acts against children. I really pray she sees the light that all children are worthy of love, respect and to be faught for, for what is right.
It’s sad how she recognizes the rights of women because their problems get minimized yet goes and minimizes the problems of another group who are the most vulnerable that themselves never had the choice in their making. She is fighting for the rights for women yet because the babies are seen as other she doesn’t have a problem causing pain and suffering for the comfort of women. She is having cognitive dissonance becoming the perpetrator of what she is seeking to fight against. In a way it is similar to what the pastor did to her yet way worse. The pastor likely had the same mindset in seeking his own comfort over the lives of others.
Great discussion. It is understandable why she is against the church, but it is a strange choice for her to pursue helping to murder innocent babies as a way to “help” women. Does she not recognize she is just like the people in the church she condemns? She is an accessory to harm just like they were. Praying for her and for justice to come to the awful man that SA’ed her.
I have never seen evidence of absolute morality, but I am willing to change my mind if you have evidence. Do you have a test that we can both do to prove that there is?
@edwinsolis5710 she was holding back. Atleast she engaged with a 90% good faith aurgument. She had thought about a lot of her aurguments and I think Hayden counter very well. The only way anyone gets to a conclusion is by challenging their views and she was doing this.
You shouldn't have gone down the path of the moral argument for God. You should have started from the a priori assumption that morality is absolute and the also the a priori assumption that murder is absolutely wrong (both of which she probably would have agreed with), and THEN explained how abortion is murder.
I was thinking the same. I believe it's normally part of Hayden's thought process when he debates college students. I think he became somewhat anxious and went off his course this time after hearing the girl's story.
True, but people nowadays are so morally bankrupt that they probably wouldn’t agree that morality is absolute (which to be fair, is consistent with a secular worldview).
Chasing after it in discipleship and being obedient out of Love for the Lord but ultimately acknowledging that only Jesus never sinned and that his sacrifice ultimately makes us right with God and nothing else will. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation Revelation 5:11-14 11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. 13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. 14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
7:40 although I understand what this analogy is trying to prove, it doesn’t take into account people rightfully would have an aversion to basketball itself after that experience. (I am radically pro-life, I want the best arguments for pro-life only)
Not "and thus " or "and therefore" ("and yet" is the same) Just "thus" and "therefore" Listen at 21:15 - 21:25 and say those words without "and" leading.
The first minute till 1:35 is the reason you need the Ortdodox Cappadocian teachings. Because people will understand the word of God like any word on earth. This is not true, those kids mentioned in that psalm are the bad thoughts that go against God. And the stone we use to smash those thoughts and not let those grow is prayer, not any prayer but the Lord's prayer. Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on me a sinner.
20:35 a little cooked...poor chica gotta go thru life numb. I hope she learns in heaven all 'The birth, death and resurrection of Jesus means that one day everything sad will come untrue.' (happy birthday Tolkien!)
I love your work here. You are truthful, but equally respectful and loving. Just one little thing to suggest, or at least raise: as a conservative Christian who accepts that God is Creator of all, but that evolution and Big Bang are true also, it really isn't necessary IMHO to pit evolution and BB against Christianity. Your points would all stand even if evolution and BB are true. Anyway, carry on with your wonderful, instructive conversations, I am proud to call you a brother!
True. The Big Bang especially is not in any way opposed to a Christian worldview. If anything, the fact that the universe had a definite beginning is evidence in favor of a creator; not sure why so many Christians want to oppose that.
There are four roadblocks to belief in God. They happen for legitment reasons sometimes however they include prejudice, defiance, fancied self sufficiency and indifference. Because of her experience I believe that she's gone the route of defiance because of the pain and injustice she's experienced.
Sure, plenty of people disbelieve in Gods for bad reasons, but you missed the most important reason why people disbelieve: Because those who claim a God exists are unable to demonstrate this claim is true through any reliable means. It's indistinguishable from bullshit, essentially.
Really impressive performance, especially in a tough situation like that one. I hope you made an impact on her. However, I kind of question the effectiveness of engaging these people in conversation. They don't have any real arguments, they don't listen to you, and they never change their minds, at least the ones really committed to abortion. What's the point?
Potential for change is a big thing. We may see no apparent shift in logic during the debate itself but with time, someone with this position may become an advocate fighting along side the cause of ending abortion. Even if it doesn't happen on camera, people need to be introduced to reasonable opposition to challenge their presuppositions for said presuppositions to change.
I would bet many of these people sound really smart and clever to themselves during the debate. But when they are alone watching themselves, they realize how stupid they sound.
@@christianfritz2102 Sure, but have you ever seen that happen? That might be possible, but I've never seen or heard of someone really committed to the pro-choice cause ever changing. Have you ever seen that? I'm genuinely curious.
@@Lichcrafterhappened to me! I was a pro choice feminist just like this girl actually and then Jesus showed up and saved my life. It’s about the small seeds that are planted by faithful Christians like Hayden so that the seeds may eventually sprout. Read Matthew 13:31-32 😊
@@chloecormack Thank you, that's really encouraging to hear! It really seems hopeless with some people, but I guess you never really know what God is doing in their life. Anyways, glad to have you as part of the family!
Disregarding the fact that 99.9% of abortions end in the death of a human being, Abortion is not safer for the mother for several reasons. 1. Early abortions are more dangerous than natural birth. This is because they are generally not performed in a hospital. That means that ectopic pregnancies are often missed, resulting in the death of the mother. There is also a higher risk of bleeding out at home. 2. Later abortions are equally as risky to the mother as natural birth. The baby has to come out some way so the mother is basically giving birth, only the baby is not alive. 3. Suicide rates are much higher for woman after abortions than before. Adult woman are 6 times more likely to commit suicide after having an abortion than before. Teenaged girls who have abortions, are 10 time more likely to commit suicide as compared to those who did not have an abortions. Abortion is not health care.
Paraphrasing here, but I like how it in the very beginning, she says "God condones killing babies" and your response is, "No no, That's just the author saying that. Plus he actually has to say that, because God said it earlier, so if he didn't, he'd be lying" Lol, like... Yeah. That's the point. They're singing Psalms about killing babies, because God told them to kill the babies.
Even tho you definitely didn’t “lose” this convo you defeat yourself by not attacking and pressuring when you literally had her in this vid a couple times.
With regards to people getting distracted by the chat I would take a page out of Godlogics book and tell your guest to just ignore them But also recognise what your guest is doing. Appealing to emotion for sympathy to derail the conversation The morality argument needs work. I see you want it dumbed down Then attacks when she sees an opening. You don't have to be rude. Just stop casting your pearls before sw*ne I would say your tone and calm demeanour are enough no need to keep asking if it is OK to proceed with the conversation "If the boot fits wear it. If the truth hurts bear it"
Here's the only argument that matters: No one should have the right to use another person's body without their consent. No one should be FORCED to allow their body to be used to sustain someone else's life, even if they're the reason the other person needs support. This is all about bodily autonomy. YOU want women to be FORCED into one option, WE want women to have the ability to CHOOSE between options.
Non sequitor. The government forces people against their bodily autonomy all the time. You HAVE to follow orders in the Military, you HAVE to care for a child (not doing so is neglect), you HAVE to drive on the right side of the road. The government does not need your consent to make you do a lot of things. This isn't about bodily autonomy. The fact that humans gestate inside of the womb supercedes all human law, it is a biological fact of our lives. And as Christians we believe it is wrong to murder regardless of the time, culture, country, or system of government you are living in.
@@LifeAsALayman They had the choice when they consented to sexual intercourse. Stop acting like you're championing women's rights. You're not. Abortion is eugenics, do your research.
@@garrettmorano3038 Let's make this easy: If you made a mistake that caused someone else to be injured in a way that means they need some kind of life support, do you think you should be FORCED to provide your body to be that support system, or should you be free to CHOOSE? 9 months worth of hindrance to your life, and you'll likely suffer mentally and physically through this process. Again, is it fair to FORCE you into this even if it was a result of a mistake?
Your argument to say morality is objective is naive. We all have our own sense of "morality", some people think murder is justified under some situations, as you do, others do not. To say that you and this person consider something wrong and that means everyone else thinks it's wrong is just incorrect. God is morality, we use the New Testament to make moral judgement, when you leave morality to the individual, it's subjective, but that doesnt work because different people have different views on whats ok
@@cm6string that position is laughable and it's very easy to show how it's wrong... All you would have to do is find just one woman who changed her mind or learned something. You could do it! And in the process you could maybe also demonstrate how men change their minds
@@cm6string I hope you never ruin a woman's life by being a part of it. If you think men are so great, I suggest joining the gay community - they also love men.
The reason this woman has for not believing in God isn't very good. As horrific as it was for her, (which it absolutely was), your lack of belief in God shouldn't be based on what other people have done to you. That has no bearing on whether God actually exists. She should disbelieve in God for the correct reason: there is currently no evidence to support the existence of God. That's all there is to it.
@cliff7201 It’s not there isn’t evidence. It’s that some do not accept what we have. The apostles wrote they witnessed JC. 500 followers too. There are miracles everyday. Doctors telling some they have a slim percent to live, yet it happens. Even some egregious doctors telling some patients to give up. Look to the great white north for those stories. Yet ppl hold on and in the end are alive today. Point is, there IS evidence. It’s just IF you accept it. Big difference
@irritatingtruth9121 Generally speaking, when people say, "There's no evidence for X" it's understood to mean there is no *valid* evidence. So to be more specific: there is no *valid* evidence that God or gods exist. Your "evidence" of miracles isn't valid evidence since by your own admission you state that they had a chance to live (slim as it may be) so them beating the odds and living is well within the realm of possibility and therefore does not require a god to exist for it to happen. Doctors can be wrong, people can be misdiagnosed, the human body has natural healing mechanisms. Someone living when other people thought they wouldn't/shouldn't does not establish that a God did it, nor that said God exists. By your logic if I win the lottery that would also be proof of God because even though everyone told me there was no way I'd win, and the odds of me winning was astronomically low, I still won, therefore definitive proof God exists, right? Taking such a non-conclusive event and ascribing it to a god is just motivated reasoning rather than actual evidence, which is what you're doing with your miracle "evidence." Point is that your "evidence" is only valid if your bar is set so low that you'll basically accept anything. There currently is no objective, independently verifiable, testable, repeatable evidence of a God existing, which is the appropriate standard for establishing the existence of something.
Honestly, I don't get it either. Is it any more absurd than a creator bringing something out of nothing? Infact, there are ways to unify both theories. The creator initiated the big bang.
@VicecrackVoldermort the two theories can certainly be unified. The difference being, if I believe in the big bang or do not believe in the big bang, nothing really changes in my life. If I believe in a creator or do not believe in a creator, major changes are likely to happen between the two.
Interesting chat. My notes grew as I listened. :) Too much for youtube comments. :D Things that are not justifications for murdering babies for an omni-benevolent god: 1. The Babylonians did it to others. 2. Gosh, times were brutal back then. 3. They were told it was going to happen. And it is in fact an argument for refuting the position that abortion is wrong because rights come from god. If god grounds rights there are millions of drowning-murdered babies, including unborn ones, in the great flood that might like a word; apparently he doesn't ground rights until you're older, or on a big boat. The pro-choice hell stuff was nonsense. Don't know what she was trying to do there. Statements do not require minds. Go chat with an AI some time... Or take in some sense data from nature that carries meaning for you. Too much to rebut in youtube comments. Moral statements could possibly come from reality itself as many natural law proponents claim, though I find that superstitious as well. You'd have to prove this premise out, which would probably be impossible. Nothing in reality provides standards for moral judgements to be eternal and unchanging. They might be momentary and subjective. But it's possible that eternal unchanging judgements could come from non-mind. "There is no objective standard with which to form moral judgements on an atheists model, therefor god," "Atheists have no objective grounding for morality, therefore belief in god is warranted," are arguments from incredulity and non-sequiturs. It's possible, and in fact the default starting point for the topic, until evidence is actually provided, that it may just be subjective. The burden is on theists to prove otherwise. It may suck - but that doesnt mean we can incredulous our way past reality. Atheists being stuck with uncomfortable subjectivity does not make unjustified superstitions that describe objective rules true. Reality could just suck. It'd be nice for us anti-abortion activists to also have arguments that are cogent for atheists rather than trying to give them religion with ridiculous TAG nonsense. I'm the same username on twitter if you want to chat some time.
I'm expecting some criticism along the lines of "you should have pushed harder" or "you should have been more aggressive" in the debate... And I would say that criticism may be warranted in this case and I don't take offense to it. This was a difficult conversation to navigate and I probably made some mistakes in the way I conducted/steered the conversation.
I disagree- I thought you did great! I think you took the path of compassion and, let’s face it, being a witness of what a true Christian should act/talk/speak like. Well done sir. I thought you did great. Our mission is the great commission and this young lady doesn’t realize she’s blind.
In some situations it’s better to push further but the beginning of the talk already was already in bad blood, so I think you managed it as well as you could after continuing the talk. I have said before to be more aggressive in situations but my opinion shouldn’t be taken that seriously because I couldn’t do nearly as well as you with these talks
you did really well hayden, you were extremely polite respectful and professional, you let her speak and you listened and waited till she was done.
superior work Hayden.
I think its not about winning an argument but rather getting information out for the world to see and hear.
I thought you did great, brother. I couldn't have done it any better myself.
She said “womp womp” to the genocide in the womb. Just learned recently over 3 billion have been murdered in the womb. That tops the battle field.
6:07 womp womp 😂
@@TheImmoralNosferatuZodd turn the other cheek
@@TheImmoralNosferatuZodd Yeah thats not funny
But what about app the zygotes that never successfully implant in the uterine wall? More people die from that than literally anything else, and pro-lifers don't seem to care.
@@griffinarcher2911 naaah... 😄
The crazy thing about the SA argument is that she's fixated on the distinction between consciousness and sentience, but you know who definitely doesn't have any sentience? A dead person. And most people still believe it would be morally wrong to desecrate a corpse in that manner.
This poor girl does not understand the fallen mess humanity is.
She has been brokenhearted. And she believes God broke her heart.
It’s always, “I do what I want”, but at the same time they forget God gave her / her pastor free will. So how is that Gods fault, if someone with free will chose?
A rhetorical question, but one I ask seriously when having this conversation.
Hey Hayden, I really appreciate how polite and thoughtful in your actions you are. keep the great job and keep treating others with respect. God bless you.
Despite popular belief, the true winner of this debate is Hayden's immaculant jawline.
Hayden, you are doing really good work here. The conversation continued as long as it did because of your respectful approach, your knowledge and faith, and the clinic worker’s willingness to listen. What happened to her is devastating and difficult for others to really understand-she was betrayed by the adults in her life and in her church when an innocent child-so it is remarkable that she could have this conversation at all. She, we all, are deeply influenced from very early in life by our schooling and our culture to adopt an atheistic/agnostic worldview and to engage in behaviors that are terribly destructive of ourselves and others, but through conversations like this she may begin to see the Truth. Keep up your excellent and important work.
I couldn't even finish that because she couldn't comprehend the simple question of "why?"
I often can’t watch videos like this, the pro choice side is just so callous, so cruel, so unloving, and so ignorant. I can’t do it.
You deserve more recognition bro. God Bless
Everytime I hear the story of a mother putting her life on the line for her born or unborn child, I can't help but tear up. They are true heroes, they are the most loving, and they are among the strongest individuals that ever walked this earth. By a stark contrast, it's truly mind-boggling to me that a group of women simply refuse to take even regular levels of risk associated with a pregnancy and view pregnancy as a disease that needs to be dodged.
An unplanned pregnancy can cause such intense panic and despair, that any rational thinking is out the window. As a pro-life woman myself, I try to empathize with the women who had abortions, and not see them as "less than".
Unfortunately, when people are so desperate as to use scripture totally out of context, they will continue to use the same argument down the road even if they have been corrected on the matter many times over.
It actually blows my mind just how illogical and incosistent these pro abortion folks are.
Well because it's a fundamentally illogical position to have
Its not pro abortion, its pro choice...no wonder your confused.....
Oh boy I was almost in tears for this woman especially towards the end. I'm truly sorry for what happened to you and that someone who is supposed to lead you the way to Jesus Christ instead took you far away from Jesus by misrepresented who He was. I delt with a few people who say their are Christians or say they follow Christ but don't practice what they preach and treating me in a way that I know now is not Christ like. I don't know if you read these comments but I hope and pray that you one day encounter the presence of Jesus Christ and feel and understand His love. Jesus wept for you and He died for your sins as much as me and Hayden. The tragedy you went through is horrible but I truly believe God is just and that man will answer to God come Judgment Day. I'm praying for you and praying you know who Jesus Christ truly is. Thank you Hayden for this video and can't wait to see more. God bless.
But this is what Christianity is for. It is expressly for the purposes of exploitation of women.
why does your name have demon in it.
Taking the Lord's name in vain is exactly what happened if the story is true, saying ''Jesus forgives sinners, so forgive the pastor and cover up his abominable crime instead of having a fair trial and defending him after the truth is out'' is like saying ''let's forgive the pharisees and join them in torturing and killing our Messiah, then when He rises from the dead we'll preach the Gospel''. Forgiving evil and sinners is one thing, defending and covering evil is evil itself, sin by omission, depending on how bad that sin of omission (like in this case) it can be a mortal sin (the same way you would fall from grace by leaving the faith and becoming a satanists, just saying ''I'm a Christian'' doesn't make you one, just like saying ''I'm a vegan meat eater'' is an oxymoron/a lie, even demons believe and know God, but don't follow Him), calling yourself Christian and practicing mortal sin without repentance, confession and doing the most you can do to make up for that evil means you don't really repent, you just don't want consequences, i.e if you killed someone's son and the parents are poor, supporting them financially if you're able to do so, in this case seeking justice with a fair trial for the pastor and AFTER having the truth come out defending the pastor or seeking justice with castration or life in prison.
Martyrs of the faith for thousands of years preferred death over being defiled, I can imagine forgiving my child's murderer out of love for God, but I can't imagine putting myself in the shoes of this woman's parents, especially when he's free to do this to other children again covered by the name of Jesus and His mercy for sinners, it's like saying ''Jesus is to rule the world so we'll kill anyone who doesn't convert because He's king of the universe'', that's evil and against the commandments, in this woman's case ''you shall not commit adultery, you shall not take your Lord's name in vain, you shall not bear false witness, love your neighbor as yourself''.
Luke 17:2
It were better for him, that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should scandalize one of these little ones.
Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
WOW listening to the end of this video brought me to tears, Hayden you are such a powerful voice for the Lord💜💙❤️ thank you Jesus for real men, that proclaim your Truth with boldness, but also LOVE and respect. Thank you Hayden for what you do. I have been listening to your and others vids trying to learn how to talk to ppl. So much love from Canada 🇨🇦
She was not arguing in good faith from the start
You're saying that she doesn't honestly believe what she says? I don't think that true.
@ no I’m saying that she wouldn’t engage in any meaningful intellectual discussion. She literally said “womp womp” at one point
I agree. She wasn’t listening with an open mind. But she admitted she was on drugs and wasn’t fully following him. Plus Hayden speaks really quickly. Lol.
What a respectful and classy debate.
My condolences to the caller who had to endure the aggregious act tha was done to her during her childhood. I hope she seek legal justice for the crime that was done to her.
That still doesnt justify her stance and ther actions she is carrying out.
She's not very classy...
She kept it together pretty well until her logic all fell apart and when she heard the truth she said "ew barf" it's almost like the bible talks about this.. "a little book" LOOOOOL.. so blind..
Straight up demonic.
"I don't need that coping mechanism. I don't need the make-believe friendship in my life." -Her speaking about Jesus. Wow... just wow.
Praying for her parents and for her.
Romans 5:3-4
More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope
I commend you for your efforts to be sensitive to someone who experienced great trauma like she did. Never apologize for empathy and humanity. IMO, it's more important than faith.
Faith is the foundation of empathy and humanity
Not sure what you mean by “it’s more important than faith” but ok.
17:00 this is the time when you look up the definition of sentience and examine whether her definition of any brain function or processing is correct. Also, reference the fact that lower-level brain function starts between 6 and 8 weeks of pregnancy.
Exactly great point
@ thanks bro!
That honestly breaks my heart at 40:30 when she says “Yeah well that didn’t happen.” Not even just as a father to a little girl, but generally this girl deserved justice for what happened to her.
I hope and pray she finds peace and love in Jesus, what happened to her is evil
Asking if something is right or wrong doesn’t make sense. You have to finish the sentence as , right or wrong for what?
He was super polite while she stated it’s fine to kill babies but she did obnoxious gagging sounds when he would say we are created in the image of god. Sad
It’s funny because in most debates I have seen between Christians vs. non-Christians, the Christians are more polite, tolerant, and considerate almost every time… and yet the prevailing narrative about Christians is that they’re some group of hateful angry bigots.
Projection I guess LOL.
@@greenmcbean6429 Because tone is very different to the concepts that are being put forward. If I smile and used a soft tone of voice while saying "you deserve to be tortured for eternity" you will immediately see what we're talking about here.
@@LifeAsALayman Straw manning and we all deserve the consequences of our actions. However we have grace (getting what we don't deserve) and mercy (not getting what we do deserve). Your framing is so biased it's insane.
@asaintnamedslickback Don't you dare accuse me of strawmanning, I gave an accurate description of what Christians believe. You DO say that we deserve to be tortured for eternity, you just add onto it "because of your sins/sinful nature, but you can be saved, etc." This doesn't change the fact that a core tenet of this religion is that everyone deserves to be severely punished.
It's manipulative, it exploits people's vulnerabilities, and regardless of a person's tone/demeanour, it's a difficult message to convey without sounding like a prick.
Very common for pastors kids to stray from the word
Why ministers should be celibate
@@Seanain_O_hEarchai That's not biblical. The Bible condones preachers getting married. They are to only have one wife.
Murder and Death penalty are different..... What a lot of young people who can't comprehend is intention... If you hit a person while driving drunk it could be murder, if you kill someone in your car on accident it could be involuntary manslaughter. If you lose your child in the womb for a reason outside of your own intention, it is an accident. If you forcefully try to remove the child through chemical or physical means it is murder. Your intention matters in all things, but for some reason especially with young women have been taught that they don't have to be accountable. Accountability is the biggest problem in modern society. If you sleep with someone, you are accountable for the outcome, you have an understanding what can happen if you have sex. That is why people should get married, and not do this dating thing.
Good talk! Proud of her for stepping up. Shows courage. Disappointed in the comments section, but most of all proud too have another young fella spreading gods word.
Wow. Poor girl has a difficult time comprehending simple ideas.
They don't comprehend basic ideas because they don't even acknowledge the inherent value of our very lives. If we are all disposable, then nothing at all matters. If the wanton taking of innocent lives isn't morally repugnant, then nothing at all matters. There can be no moral principle that says that one individual matters and another is disposable but only if and when we say so.
This is very informative, I've met people and more than one or two, that have had experiences in the church with abuse or been abused in general and have a tough time with why God would allow that. It's sad and I understand why that would be hard for her to have faith in God. I think it comes down to accepting people hurt other people, getting help and being vigilant that to be healthy I cannot be a victim
You can tell she just started losing her patience I mean she litterally said “how can you support this genocide?” And Hayden said “and how can you support THIS genocide” and she responded “womp womp”
It’s the height of immaturity. Her double-standard was exposed and her programming didn’t know how to respond.
She isn't being honest.
I guess she doesn't want her $100,000,000 inheritance. I bet if she found out about it a year after it's all said and done, she would be suing for it.
Is it wrong of me to not fully believe these people when they claim sexual assault or grape from their pastors? Especially when they claim the whole church was working to cover it up, I feel that they may be defining these terms differently to how they are widely understood.
My thought too
It's sad we have women like this w literally the mind of children in such impactful position in our society.
Its actually frightening.
especially how smug they are while they literally cant even follow basic epistemology
Taking notes. Keep it up, man!
I'm sorry but when she says, "I'm a little cooked right now, so it's hard for me to understand..." That's just so incredibly disrespectful. This person is very lost.
While I am agnostic, i can certainly recognize the moral repugnancy of the wanton taking of innocent lives regardless of who the victim is, especially when it is the most innocent and precious little boys and girls. Either our lives matter, or we really do get a so-called choice to decide who is a person and who is disposable. There is no moral principle that says that one individual matters and another is disposable but only if and when we say so.
The problem is that there is no objective good or evil on a secular worldview. One group of people can say human life has intrinsic value and should be protected, and another group could say that human life has no intrinsic value.
Unless there is an objective moral law, neither group’s idea of morality is objective, rendering them to be no more than opinions. This is why so many people are just ok with disposing of children in the womb; they have absolutely nowhere to derive solid, moral principles from, and so other people can easily convince them that anything is permissible, even the most heinous of acts like abortion.
@greenmcbean6429 I recognize this contradiction, yet I remain agnostic. I recognize that we ALL have inherent and objective value and this value must come from the Christian perspective, and I've tried to believe in God to reconcile this contradiction, but I just don't believe that God exists. Though I do recognize that we all must have inherent value for the wanton taking of innocent lives to be objectively immoral. This is something I've thought about a lot for at least my 41yrs of life.
@@trentjacobs3957 Out of sheer curiosity, what has caused you to wrestle with the existence of God? I've only been on this earth for 20 years (21 soon)), and I know God is real (in particular, Yahweh and Jesus Christ, the God the Bible describes). Too many times I could've died, and so many times have I been kept. I've seen his word in action and everything, so it does baffle me when someone has wrestled with the thought of his existence for so long.
She needs to repent and find her way back to God, as do we all.
I respect her having this lengthy conversation despite her different opinion. It shows maturity.
I am not sure why prochoicers argue that pregnancy is dangerous and it could cause death. First, our bodies were made to create babies and women have been having babies since the beginning of time. Secondly, driving is dangerous and could end in death, but everyone still drives. There are risks in everything we do. I don’t it is a good argument.
Also it is 2025. Women almost never die due to childbirth anymore, but the pro-murder crowd constantly acts like that’s the main reason they need to allow abortion on demand for everyone (despite that literally making no sense at all).
@@greenmcbean6429Real
Im sorry that that terrible thing happened to her and the others will have to pay for what allegedly happened. But using her own logic of sentience then doing that would be acceptable up to a certain age. If a child up to lets say 2 years old would never have a memory of it occuring would be okay by her logic. Its never okay. And she is actually playing the part of co-conspiritor by participating in these acts against children. I really pray she sees the light that all children are worthy of love, respect and to be faught for, for what is right.
“Womp womp” and this is the person talking about empathy lol
It’s sad how she recognizes the rights of women because their problems get minimized yet goes and minimizes the problems of another group who are the most vulnerable that themselves never had the choice in their making. She is fighting for the rights for women yet because the babies are seen as other she doesn’t have a problem causing pain and suffering for the comfort of women. She is having cognitive dissonance becoming the perpetrator of what she is seeking to fight against. In a way it is similar to what the pastor did to her yet way worse. The pastor likely had the same mindset in seeking his own comfort over the lives of others.
Great discussion. It is understandable why she is against the church, but it is a strange choice for her to pursue helping to murder innocent babies as a way to “help” women. Does she not recognize she is just like the people in the church she condemns? She is an accessory to harm just like they were. Praying for her and for justice to come to the awful man that SA’ed her.
Thank you Hayden💜💙❤️
27:38 Hayden is still classy while he dismantles her nonsensical worldview
I really wished you pushed more into those hypotheticals like the consciousness one and others instead of moving on to another approach.
There’s no evidence of absolute morality. And you can’t prove it.
So is it ever ok to rape children?
Is that an absolute statement? 😂
I have never seen evidence of absolute morality, but I am willing to change my mind if you have evidence. Do you have a test that we can both do to prove that there is?
I really respected her argument and time.
She was horrible. Really went “womp womp” when countered by the idea that she’s actively supporting genocide.
@edwinsolis5710 she was holding back. Atleast she engaged with a 90% good faith aurgument. She had thought about a lot of her aurguments and I think Hayden counter very well. The only way anyone gets to a conclusion is by challenging their views and she was doing this.
You shouldn't have gone down the path of the moral argument for God. You should have started from the a priori assumption that morality is absolute and the also the a priori assumption that murder is absolutely wrong (both of which she probably would have agreed with), and THEN explained how abortion is murder.
I was thinking the same. I believe it's normally part of Hayden's thought process when he debates college students. I think he became somewhat anxious and went off his course this time after hearing the girl's story.
True, but people nowadays are so morally bankrupt that they probably wouldn’t agree that morality is absolute (which to be fair, is consistent with a secular worldview).
@@danc.9554 yeah, I think you’re right. I understand Hayden’s anxiety and I admit I’ve experienced the same thing at times.
Shocking
The only logical explanation is that God is real and that the way to live your life is by the standards set by Jesus of Nazareth.
Chasing after it in discipleship and being obedient out of Love for the Lord but ultimately acknowledging that only Jesus never sinned and that his sacrifice ultimately makes us right with God and nothing else will. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation
Revelation 5:11-14
11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
7:40 although I understand what this analogy is trying to prove, it doesn’t take into account people rightfully would have an aversion to basketball itself after that experience. (I am radically pro-life, I want the best arguments for pro-life only)
Not "and thus " or "and therefore" ("and yet" is the same)
Just "thus" and "therefore"
Listen at 21:15 - 21:25 and say those words without "and" leading.
The first minute till 1:35 is the reason you need the Ortdodox Cappadocian teachings. Because people will understand the word of God like any word on earth. This is not true, those kids mentioned in that psalm are the bad thoughts that go against God. And the stone we use to smash those thoughts and not let those grow is prayer, not any prayer but the Lord's prayer. Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on me a sinner.
20:35 a little cooked...poor chica gotta go thru life numb. I hope she learns in heaven all 'The birth, death and resurrection of Jesus means that one day everything sad will come untrue.' (happy birthday Tolkien!)
I love your work here. You are truthful, but equally respectful and loving.
Just one little thing to suggest, or at least raise: as a conservative Christian who accepts that God is Creator of all, but that evolution and Big Bang are true also, it really isn't necessary IMHO to pit evolution and BB against Christianity. Your points would all stand even if evolution and BB are true.
Anyway, carry on with your wonderful, instructive conversations, I am proud to call you a brother!
True. The Big Bang especially is not in any way opposed to a Christian worldview. If anything, the fact that the universe had a definite beginning is evidence in favor of a creator; not sure why so many Christians want to oppose that.
@@greenmcbean6429 from my limited reading, I think that many atheist scientists initially resisted the BB because of its theistic implications.
I wonder why you never see any videos called “ debunking every pro-life argument” I’m guessing cause it’s just not possible
It likely includes fallacious arguments towards authority or to the minority of cases etc
There are four roadblocks to belief in God. They happen for legitment reasons sometimes however they include prejudice, defiance, fancied self sufficiency and indifference. Because of her experience I believe that she's gone the route of defiance because of the pain and injustice she's experienced.
Sure, plenty of people disbelieve in Gods for bad reasons, but you missed the most important reason why people disbelieve: Because those who claim a God exists are unable to demonstrate this claim is true through any reliable means. It's indistinguishable from bullshit, essentially.
Really impressive performance, especially in a tough situation like that one. I hope you made an impact on her. However, I kind of question the effectiveness of engaging these people in conversation. They don't have any real arguments, they don't listen to you, and they never change their minds, at least the ones really committed to abortion. What's the point?
Potential for change is a big thing. We may see no apparent shift in logic during the debate itself but with time, someone with this position may become an advocate fighting along side the cause of ending abortion. Even if it doesn't happen on camera, people need to be introduced to reasonable opposition to challenge their presuppositions for said presuppositions to change.
I would bet many of these people sound really smart and clever to themselves during the debate. But when they are alone watching themselves, they realize how stupid they sound.
@@christianfritz2102 Sure, but have you ever seen that happen? That might be possible, but I've never seen or heard of someone really committed to the pro-choice cause ever changing. Have you ever seen that? I'm genuinely curious.
@@Lichcrafterhappened to me! I was a pro choice feminist just like this girl actually and then Jesus showed up and saved my life. It’s about the small seeds that are planted by faithful Christians like Hayden so that the seeds may eventually sprout. Read Matthew 13:31-32 😊
@@chloecormack Thank you, that's really encouraging to hear! It really seems hopeless with some people, but I guess you never really know what God is doing in their life. Anyways, glad to have you as part of the family!
Disregarding the fact that 99.9% of abortions end in the death of a human being, Abortion is not safer for the mother for several reasons.
1. Early abortions are more dangerous than natural birth. This is because they are generally not performed in a hospital. That means that ectopic pregnancies are often missed, resulting in the death of the mother. There is also a higher risk of bleeding out at home.
2. Later abortions are equally as risky to the mother as natural birth. The baby has to come out some way so the mother is basically giving birth, only the baby is not alive.
3. Suicide rates are much higher for woman after abortions than before. Adult woman are 6 times more likely to commit suicide after having an abortion than before. Teenaged girls who have abortions, are 10 time more likely to commit suicide as compared to those who did not have an abortions.
Abortion is not health care.
Therefore, women shouldn't have the right to choose? What are you arguing for here?
Classic PK
Paraphrasing here, but I like how it in the very beginning, she says "God condones killing babies" and your response is, "No no, That's just the author saying that. Plus he actually has to say that, because God said it earlier, so if he didn't, he'd be lying"
Lol, like... Yeah. That's the point.
They're singing Psalms about killing babies, because God told them to kill the babies.
Even tho you definitely didn’t “lose” this convo you defeat yourself by not attacking and pressuring when you literally had her in this vid a couple times.
Aint it kinda silly to use the bible to make them accept pro choice...? Health care and choices of abortion etc is about humans, not religion.
With regards to people getting distracted by the chat
I would take a page out of Godlogics book and tell your guest to just ignore them
But also recognise what your guest is doing. Appealing to emotion for sympathy to derail the conversation
The morality argument needs work. I see you want it dumbed down
Then attacks when she sees an opening. You don't have to be rude. Just stop casting your pearls before sw*ne
I would say your tone and calm demeanour are enough no need to keep asking if it is OK to proceed with the conversation
"If the boot fits wear it. If the truth hurts bear it"
Here's the only argument that matters:
No one should have the right to use another person's body without their consent.
No one should be FORCED to allow their body to be used to sustain someone else's life, even if they're the reason the other person needs support.
This is all about bodily autonomy. YOU want women to be FORCED into one option, WE want women to have the ability to CHOOSE between options.
Non sequitor. The government forces people against their bodily autonomy all the time. You HAVE to follow orders in the Military, you HAVE to care for a child (not doing so is neglect), you HAVE to drive on the right side of the road. The government does not need your consent to make you do a lot of things. This isn't about bodily autonomy. The fact that humans gestate inside of the womb supercedes all human law, it is a biological fact of our lives. And as Christians we believe it is wrong to murder regardless of the time, culture, country, or system of government you are living in.
@@LifeAsALayman They had the choice when they consented to sexual intercourse. Stop acting like you're championing women's rights. You're not. Abortion is eugenics, do your research.
@@asaintnamedslickbackConsent to sex is not consent to pregnancy, you misguided lunatic.
@@garrettmorano3038 Let's make this easy:
If you made a mistake that caused someone else to be injured in a way that means they need some kind of life support, do you think you should be FORCED to provide your body to be that support system, or should you be free to CHOOSE?
9 months worth of hindrance to your life, and you'll likely suffer mentally and physically through this process.
Again, is it fair to FORCE you into this even if it was a result of a mistake?
Your argument to say morality is objective is naive. We all have our own sense of "morality", some people think murder is justified under some situations, as you do, others do not. To say that you and this person consider something wrong and that means everyone else thinks it's wrong is just incorrect. God is morality, we use the New Testament to make moral judgement, when you leave morality to the individual, it's subjective, but that doesnt work because different people have different views on whats ok
Pointless debating women. Goes in one ear and out the other.
Wait are you saying women can't learn or change their mind and only men can?
@ yes
@@cm6string that position is laughable and it's very easy to show how it's wrong... All you would have to do is find just one woman who changed her mind or learned something. You could do it! And in the process you could maybe also demonstrate how men change their minds
@@cm6string I hope you never ruin a woman's life by being a part of it. If you think men are so great, I suggest joining the gay community - they also love men.
The reason this woman has for not believing in God isn't very good. As horrific as it was for her, (which it absolutely was), your lack of belief in God shouldn't be based on what other people have done to you. That has no bearing on whether God actually exists. She should disbelieve in God for the correct reason: there is currently no evidence to support the existence of God. That's all there is to it.
@cliff7201
It’s not there isn’t evidence. It’s that some do not accept what we have.
The apostles wrote they witnessed JC. 500 followers too.
There are miracles everyday. Doctors telling some they have a slim percent to live, yet it happens. Even some egregious doctors telling some patients to give up. Look to the great white north for those stories.
Yet ppl hold on and in the end are alive today.
Point is, there IS evidence. It’s just IF you accept it. Big difference
@irritatingtruth9121 Generally speaking, when people say, "There's no evidence for X" it's understood to mean there is no *valid* evidence. So to be more specific: there is no *valid* evidence that God or gods exist. Your "evidence" of miracles isn't valid evidence since by your own admission you state that they had a chance to live (slim as it may be) so them beating the odds and living is well within the realm of possibility and therefore does not require a god to exist for it to happen. Doctors can be wrong, people can be misdiagnosed, the human body has natural healing mechanisms. Someone living when other people thought they wouldn't/shouldn't does not establish that a God did it, nor that said God exists. By your logic if I win the lottery that would also be proof of God because even though everyone told me there was no way I'd win, and the odds of me winning was astronomically low, I still won, therefore definitive proof God exists, right? Taking such a non-conclusive event and ascribing it to a god is just motivated reasoning rather than actual evidence, which is what you're doing with your miracle "evidence." Point is that your "evidence" is only valid if your bar is set so low that you'll basically accept anything. There currently is no objective, independently verifiable, testable, repeatable evidence of a God existing, which is the appropriate standard for establishing the existence of something.
Wait. Are you denying the Big Bang?
Are you talking about the flash of light at the moment of conception? That big bang?
Does it matter either way, it's simply a theory with little to no evidence? Same with evolution as an origin of life story..?
Honestly, I don't get it either. Is it any more absurd than a creator bringing something out of nothing? Infact, there are ways to unify both theories. The creator initiated the big bang.
@VicecrackVoldermort the two theories can certainly be unified. The difference being, if I believe in the big bang or do not believe in the big bang, nothing really changes in my life. If I believe in a creator or do not believe in a creator, major changes are likely to happen between the two.
OP was there guys.
Interesting chat. My notes grew as I listened. :) Too much for youtube comments. :D
Things that are not justifications for murdering babies for an omni-benevolent god:
1. The Babylonians did it to others.
2. Gosh, times were brutal back then.
3. They were told it was going to happen.
And it is in fact an argument for refuting the position that abortion is wrong because rights come from god. If god grounds rights there are millions of drowning-murdered babies, including unborn ones, in the great flood that might like a word; apparently he doesn't ground rights until you're older, or on a big boat.
The pro-choice hell stuff was nonsense. Don't know what she was trying to do there.
Statements do not require minds. Go chat with an AI some time... Or take in some sense data from nature that carries meaning for you. Too much to rebut in youtube comments. Moral statements could possibly come from reality itself as many natural law proponents claim, though I find that superstitious as well. You'd have to prove this premise out, which would probably be impossible. Nothing in reality provides standards for moral judgements to be eternal and unchanging. They might be momentary and subjective. But it's possible that eternal unchanging judgements could come from non-mind.
"There is no objective standard with which to form moral judgements on an atheists model, therefor god," "Atheists have no objective grounding for morality, therefore belief in god is warranted," are arguments from incredulity and non-sequiturs. It's possible, and in fact the default starting point for the topic, until evidence is actually provided, that it may just be subjective. The burden is on theists to prove otherwise. It may suck - but that doesnt mean we can incredulous our way past reality. Atheists being stuck with uncomfortable subjectivity does not make unjustified superstitions that describe objective rules true. Reality could just suck.
It'd be nice for us anti-abortion activists to also have arguments that are cogent for atheists rather than trying to give them religion with ridiculous TAG nonsense. I'm the same username on twitter if you want to chat some time.