I tell people finishes are my thing. I am on an endless deep dive into the esoteric differences of finish appearance. For example currently building custom Bunk beds out of hickory. I love hickory but the color change can be a bit drastic. So I am using Watco danish oil medium walnut wiped on then I am spraying 🎉 Sirca with an HVLP . The Sirca is a water based and I use the matte finish.I do 2 coats and an aggressive sanding between coats with 220. I get an automotive quality/ smoothness of finish. Also the durability has been very impressive , I spray horizontally if possible because the finish needs to go on pretty heavy, the evaporation with water based is high. The Watco eases the extreme color variation , but most important adds depth the finish and brings out the beauty of the grain. We could talk all day about finishing, I am a TOTAL GEEK about the subject. Love your channel. I am going to make some shellac and play with it on light use projects as you mentioned, also try adding a more durable product on top. ❤ playing with finishes 🎉
I am in a table build using 100+ year old pine . Its incredible looking old growth sruff with alot of it quarter sawn with no knots and is clear. It does have a red tone. Looking for a decent finish that wont show water marks. The rustic hard oil finish you used peeks my interest. How does if fare using it on a dining room table? Wanting a great quality and long lasting finish thats somewhat easy to apply. Saving money is always a plus so if this stuff is as good as the bigger brands i am interesred. Thank you for your sharing your experience with these finishes.
Any thoughts on Odies? I have a fairly deep finishing cabinet but mostly used Odies Oil and Wax, which has been super durable and looks good the higher I sand (320+ - 2k). Just curious if you think one of these was better (mostly tabletops and desks). Appreciate the video
Went through a round of Odies on my last project. ua-cam.com/video/SK-5k9Gjno0/v-deo.html Looked great! But I found it laborious to apply. I would only use it on small projects. Rubio or Natura was sooo much easier. I also found Odie's did not sink into the fibers like the others do. I could visibly see that the finish wasn't reaching deep between the grain. I rather the feeling of knowing the piece is protected deeper than that.
I try a lot of different things. And try to cater for the intended use of the item. The shellac and furniture wax is a favorite. Osmo is my current hard wax choice. I like a nice danish oil finish, but it does have to be maintained regularly. Lint seed oil stains the wood I feel. I use it more when hardening metal or oil treating metal. But this helps give a broad view of each types purpose. Good video.
This is great info~! Finishing is still the thing that I struggle with the most. For years, I put poly on everything. I've tried shellac, but am just not sure when to use which finish. This helps. Thanks much~!!
So, you don't need to worry about shellac. The denatured alcohol just evaporates. It can start on fire with an ignition source but not on its own like linseed oil based finishes. You're safe with shellac.
Spraying 2K they recommend full independent breathing and all skin covered plus an air filtration system for chemicals and gas. It is one of the most toxic things ever.
This video couldn’t have come at a better time 👏🏼 already have flakes ordered before the video was over! Cannot wait to see that smoothness in real life
Big fan of shellac. It looks beautiful, it's sustainable, it's food safe (shellac makes jelly beans and other candies shiny), there's lots of color options, and it's easy to repair/refinish because the alcohol dissolves the existing layer when applying a new coat. I even use shellac for my shop furniture. I like to use a magnetic stirrer when I mix mine up.
It is only food safe if you are using food safe alcohol which denatured alcohol is poison. You have to buy grain alcohol from your liquor store if you want it to be food safe.
This is the first video from you that I’ve seen. I’ve been woodworking for over 45 years and have used (and abused) every finish known to man. I absolutely agree with what you say - okay, not absolutely absolutely - but mostly absolutely. I love shellac. On the right piece, as you say, it is a lovely finish to use. Using a mop (that’s the correct term on the UK for the applicator you use), is the best way but you should strive to keep a wet edge. But which I mean, try to use overlapping strokes on to shellac not yet cured. That’s not easy and it requires preparation and a bit of experience. But, if it goes wrong, it’s easy to correct. Correction varnish or lacquer is the most durable but requires investment in equipment and a lot of experience. Get it wrong and it’s a lot harder to correct. Like most woodworkers, I don’t have a dedicated finishing room. Therefore the ability to move a piece out of the way and getting minimal contamination from shop dust are important. Therefore, like you, my preference is 2 pack hard wax oil. I’ve done a lot with HWO and here are my experiences and thoughts: Late last year, the Wood Whisperer did a review video on 2c HWO. Check it out because I thought it was very interesting. His overall winner was Natura Onecoat which I had not heard of. Not surprising as it wasn’t available here in the UK but. I’m told, soon will be. Anyway, I contacted the makers and they very kindly sent me samples. I’ve now used it many times on many kinds of projects and tried many different preparations, applications, after treatments. For my money and my experience, Natura beats aIl others. Quite easily. In terms of cost per square metre, it’s excellent value (I can’t compare to Rustic Lumber as we don’t have that here but I did some maths and I don’t think it works out any cheaper); it spreads like butter; it buffs very well and a little goes further than any other (that’s more subjective than objective as I’ve yet to try covering 55 square metres (that’s the minimum for 1 litre of Natura) of the same timber as I cover with another 2C HWO but I’m sure I’m right). Finally, and it’s a gripe of mine, the containers are made so that you can get every lest drop out and you don’t get messy, ill-fitting lids with the HWO going hard in the tin. What I sand to depends upon the timber. For closed grain Timbers like maple, I go to 80 or 100. For open grain, like oak, I will go to 120 or 150 or 180. For me, it’s a feel thing rather than a fixed number. I then water pop the surface with a final light sand. Then I vacuum and (Mr over-engineer) wipe over with denatured alcohol or similar on a clean rag to ensure all the dust in the pores is taken out. For small pieces, I apply with the white scoured as you do. For large pieces, I use one of those car buffers with a white or maroon pad underneath (made out of the rectangle pads). I drip the mix onto the surface and then immediately rub it in. That way, I control how much I apply (if you end up having to wipe off excess, you’ve used too much). That machine buffing makes light work of a table top. For me in my shop, Natura will cure enough within an hour that I can carefully move it from my bench and I can carry on. It’s also cured enough that no dust from the shop will contaminate it. I’ve tried several variants. I’ve sanded down to 400 grit. On some timbers, the HEO gives an even coat but, on others, it goes blotchy. That’s just the result of uneven absorption on closed grains. I wouldn’t have too much issue going to 150 grit on those Timbers but I’d be aware that occasionally, it might need redoing. I’ve tried 2 coats and did get a higher sheen but I believe it got the higher sheen from the wax in HWO and not the penetrating oil in HWO. So, I have applied a high quality (low solvent) furniture wax over the top and got a very high sheen. So, for me, Natura Onecoat can be described as the best overall finishing solution for me. It’s not the best at some things (total gloss or very high durability) but it’s the best for 80% of what I do.
This is a lot of good info! Question. Is the reason for "low solvent" furniture wax because solvents strip the oil? Do you find that applying the extra wax reduces the penetration future coats of HWO will have?
@@josiahutah3712 thank you. High solvent waxes ( or high solvent any finish) mean that it spreads more easily but with a thinner coat. Low solvent means it’s harder to apply (although warming a wax solves that) but you get a better coat. For me, 2 reasons not to buy high solvent: firstly, solvents are cheap and so you are paying the price for expensive wax when you are getting cheap solvent; secondly, solvents are bad for you and bad for the environment. Your second point is particularly interesting and probably needs a chemist to answer it properly. I use Natura Onecoat - and apply just one coat. However, I did a piece in very hard sycamore and the result was blotchy. That was because this piece was the hardest, most closed grain piece I think I’ve ever worked and the absorbtion of the penetrating oil was poor to non-existent. That partly shows that (any) hard wax oil is not the perfect solution in any situation and, for this piece, I should really have used shellac or a varnish as both of those sit on the timber. Anyway, back to your point, I applied a second coat of Natura to see if I could rectify my mistake. It didn’t but that second coat did absorb into the timber in the more open grained parts but not where it had not absorbed before. My deduction from this is that subsequent applications of hard wax oil will “penetrate” the original wax in the hard wax oil. Therefore, I’m guessing the answer to your point is that you can apply subsequent coats of HWO to a surface that you have waxed. I haven’t tried it but I think I would lightly degrease the waxed surface before applying another coat but that is my Mr Over-engineer.
I enjoyed this content, thanks for sharing. Unfortunately, this was a little too narrowly focused for me, as you didn't discuss any other products and why you don't use them. For example, I've used Danish Oil before, and I'm about to do a project with Rubio Monocoat for the first time, common variations on tung and linseed oil based finishes. I've also used poly finishes in the past. It would have been helpful to at least have your thoughts on these products among others, so that we could better understand why you use what you use and avoid common alternatives. I know that's a big ask, since there's so many finish options available, but it's not clear from your presentation if you've never tried any other products, or if you find them lacking in key ways.
Unfortunately going over every finish I don't like isn't an option. I can't make a 4 hour video talking about the deficits of every product. No one would ever watch it. Rubio Monocoat is a hard wax oil. It's a solid product but 3 times more expensive than Rustic Lumber and simar results. There are roughly 8,000 poly products on the market.
Thanks for the vid. I use a LED hard wax that cures instantly. Not dries. Cures. It’s amazing. I found with that 150 grit is the good middle ground. 120 is just too rough for my liking but 150 works great. 180 on end grain. I’m definitely keen to move to a conversion varnish for some pieces so appreciate the info.
I tell people finishes are my thing. I am on an endless deep dive into the esoteric differences of finish appearance. For example currently building custom Bunk beds out of hickory. I love hickory but the color change can be a bit drastic. So I am using Watco danish oil medium walnut wiped on then I am spraying 🎉 Sirca with an HVLP . The Sirca is a water based and I use the matte finish.I do 2 coats and an aggressive sanding between coats with 220. I get an automotive quality/ smoothness of finish. Also the durability has been very impressive , I spray horizontally if possible because the finish needs to go on pretty heavy, the evaporation with water based is high. The Watco eases the extreme color variation , but most important adds depth the finish and brings out the beauty of the grain. We could talk all day about finishing, I am a TOTAL GEEK about the subject. Love your channel. I am going to make some shellac and play with it on light use projects as you mentioned, also try adding a more durable product on top. ❤ playing with finishes 🎉
You'll love shellac! It's a great finish. I haven't used Sirca yet but it's on the list. Sirca is owned by Gemini Coatings who makes Evo
I am in a table build using 100+ year old pine . Its incredible looking old growth sruff with alot of it quarter sawn with no knots and is clear. It does have a red tone. Looking for a decent finish that wont show water marks. The rustic hard oil finish you used peeks my interest. How does if fare using it on a dining room table? Wanting a great quality and long lasting finish thats somewhat easy to apply. Saving money is always a plus so if this stuff is as good as the bigger brands i am interesred.
Thank you for your sharing your experience with these finishes.
I've used it on many dining tables, mine included. You will need to use coasters but mine has zero water marks.
Any thoughts on Odies? I have a fairly deep finishing cabinet but mostly used Odies Oil and Wax, which has been super durable and looks good the higher I sand (320+ - 2k). Just curious if you think one of these was better (mostly tabletops and desks). Appreciate the video
Went through a round of Odies on my last project. ua-cam.com/video/SK-5k9Gjno0/v-deo.html Looked great! But I found it laborious to apply. I would only use it on small projects. Rubio or Natura was sooo much easier. I also found Odie's did not sink into the fibers like the others do. I could visibly see that the finish wasn't reaching deep between the grain. I rather the feeling of knowing the piece is protected deeper than that.
Odies performs fine. My problem is with the owner. I refuse to give him any of my money.
@@CoffeyCustomBuilds Interesting. Can't say I know anything about the owner. But I'm curious.
This is a good presentation. I like the combination of technique demonstration and expansion of your reasoning for the differences in use.
Glad it was helpful!
Glad you're not a liar. ;)
It's true. All of it.
How does Rustic Lumber Finish compare to Rubio Monocoat?
Rustic is 5 to 1. Can be sanded higher. Is cheaper. Same finish quality. More ambery (can be a negative). Less pigment options.
The rustic lumber instructions suggest sanding to 220-320 for furniture. Have you tried that and not been pleased with the results?
With Rustic it works great! I was more giving a general consensus from hard wax manufacturers. But it's great with Rustic
@@CoffeyCustomBuilds good to know since about to use it for the first time.
Mike, I need to feel it. Send it me so I have proof 😂.
Send a self addressed and stamped envelope 🤣
Another great video. The shop really is serving those studio vibes now. Looks fantastic on screen.
Thanks man! We are starting to get our vibe.
I try a lot of different things. And try to cater for the intended use of the item. The shellac and furniture wax is a favorite. Osmo is my current hard wax choice. I like a nice danish oil finish, but it does have to be maintained regularly. Lint seed oil stains the wood I feel. I use it more when hardening metal or oil treating metal. But this helps give a broad view of each types purpose. Good video.
Yeah these are a broad approach to finishes iny shop. Like I said, we use a ton of different products for different uses.
Great video and always appreciate the transparency and non-biased information!
Thank you sir! These are solid products for their respective uses!
This is great info~! Finishing is still the thing that I struggle with the most. For years, I put poly on everything. I've tried shellac, but am just not sure when to use which finish. This helps. Thanks much~!!
Glad it was helpful! That's the goal!
What is the best method of cleanup with the rags used for the shellac? I’m always nervous about rags and what can be combustible and what isn’t. 😳
So, you don't need to worry about shellac. The denatured alcohol just evaporates. It can start on fire with an ignition source but not on its own like linseed oil based finishes. You're safe with shellac.
Spraying 2K they recommend full independent breathing and all skin covered plus an air filtration system for chemicals and gas. It is one of the most toxic things ever.
It's bad
Would you use the EVO with pigment for "painted" cabinets or something else?
Their pigmented offerings are incredible. We never use paint for cabinets. Just their pigmented offerings.
Super interesting topic. Why do you sand the 2k so much between coats? Is that a personal preference, or manufacturer recommendation?
I just sand between each coat. Makes the next coat feel perfect but also knocks off any dust or nibs.
Flakes and alcohol on order! Can't wait to try this. Thanks for another great video.
Be sure to report back!
This video couldn’t have come at a better time 👏🏼 already have flakes ordered before the video was over! Cannot wait to see that smoothness in real life
You're going to love it
Great video! Love the insight into your business and what you have the most success with. Keep up the great work!
I appreciate that!
Love this type of content! Keep it coming 🙏🏾
Thank you! Will do!
Big fan of shellac. It looks beautiful, it's sustainable, it's food safe (shellac makes jelly beans and other candies shiny), there's lots of color options, and it's easy to repair/refinish because the alcohol dissolves the existing layer when applying a new coat. I even use shellac for my shop furniture. I like to use a magnetic stirrer when I mix mine up.
It's really a great product
It is only food safe if you are using food safe alcohol which denatured alcohol is poison. You have to buy grain alcohol from your liquor store if you want it to be food safe.
GREAT video Mike 🤜 shellac rules.
Thanks for the help on it homie!
This is the first video from you that I’ve seen. I’ve been woodworking for over 45 years and have used (and abused) every finish known to man. I absolutely agree with what you say - okay, not absolutely absolutely - but mostly absolutely.
I love shellac. On the right piece, as you say, it is a lovely finish to use. Using a mop (that’s the correct term on the UK for the applicator you use), is the best way but you should strive to keep a wet edge. But which I mean, try to use overlapping strokes on to shellac not yet cured. That’s not easy and it requires preparation and a bit of experience. But, if it goes wrong, it’s easy to correct.
Correction varnish or lacquer is the most durable but requires investment in equipment and a lot of experience. Get it wrong and it’s a lot harder to correct.
Like most woodworkers, I don’t have a dedicated finishing room. Therefore the ability to move a piece out of the way and getting minimal contamination from shop dust are important. Therefore, like you, my preference is 2 pack hard wax oil. I’ve done a lot with HWO and here are my experiences and thoughts:
Late last year, the Wood Whisperer did a review video on 2c HWO. Check it out because I thought it was very interesting. His overall winner was Natura Onecoat which I had not heard of. Not surprising as it wasn’t available here in the UK but. I’m told, soon will be. Anyway, I contacted the makers and they very kindly sent me samples. I’ve now used it many times on many kinds of projects and tried many different preparations, applications, after treatments. For my money and my experience, Natura beats aIl others. Quite easily. In terms of cost per square metre, it’s excellent value (I can’t compare to Rustic Lumber as we don’t have that here but I did some maths and I don’t think it works out any cheaper); it spreads like butter; it buffs very well and a little goes further than any other (that’s more subjective than objective as I’ve yet to try covering 55 square metres (that’s the minimum for 1 litre of Natura) of the same timber as I cover with another 2C HWO but I’m sure I’m right). Finally, and it’s a gripe of mine, the containers are made so that you can get every lest drop out and you don’t get messy, ill-fitting lids with the HWO going hard in the tin.
What I sand to depends upon the timber. For closed grain Timbers like maple, I go to 80 or 100. For open grain, like oak, I will go to 120 or 150 or 180. For me, it’s a feel thing rather than a fixed number. I then water pop the surface with a final light sand. Then I vacuum and (Mr over-engineer) wipe over with denatured alcohol or similar on a clean rag to ensure all the dust in the pores is taken out.
For small pieces, I apply with the white scoured as you do. For large pieces, I use one of those car buffers with a white or maroon pad underneath (made out of the rectangle pads). I drip the mix onto the surface and then immediately rub it in. That way, I control how much I apply (if you end up having to wipe off excess, you’ve used too much). That machine buffing makes light work of a table top.
For me in my shop, Natura will cure enough within an hour that I can carefully move it from my bench and I can carry on. It’s also cured enough that no dust from the shop will contaminate it.
I’ve tried several variants. I’ve sanded down to 400 grit. On some timbers, the HEO gives an even coat but, on others, it goes blotchy. That’s just the result of uneven absorption on closed grains. I wouldn’t have too much issue going to 150 grit on those Timbers but I’d be aware that occasionally, it might need redoing.
I’ve tried 2 coats and did get a higher sheen but I believe it got the higher sheen from the wax in HWO and not the penetrating oil in HWO.
So, I have applied a high quality (low solvent) furniture wax over the top and got a very high sheen.
So, for me, Natura Onecoat can be described as the best overall finishing solution for me. It’s not the best at some things (total gloss or very high durability) but it’s the best for 80% of what I do.
This is a lot of good info! Question. Is the reason for "low solvent" furniture wax because solvents strip the oil? Do you find that applying the extra wax reduces the penetration future coats of HWO will have?
@@josiahutah3712 thank you. High solvent waxes ( or high solvent any finish) mean that it spreads more easily but with a thinner coat. Low solvent means it’s harder to apply (although warming a wax solves that) but you get a better coat. For me, 2 reasons not to buy high solvent: firstly, solvents are cheap and so you are paying the price for expensive wax when you are getting cheap solvent; secondly, solvents are bad for you and bad for the environment.
Your second point is particularly interesting and probably needs a chemist to answer it properly. I use Natura Onecoat - and apply just one coat. However, I did a piece in very hard sycamore and the result was blotchy. That was because this piece was the hardest, most closed grain piece I think I’ve ever worked and the absorbtion of the penetrating oil was poor to non-existent. That partly shows that (any) hard wax oil is not the perfect solution in any situation and, for this piece, I should really have used shellac or a varnish as both of those sit on the timber. Anyway, back to your point, I applied a second coat of Natura to see if I could rectify my mistake. It didn’t but that second coat did absorb into the timber in the more open grained parts but not where it had not absorbed before. My deduction from this is that subsequent applications of hard wax oil will “penetrate” the original wax in the hard wax oil. Therefore, I’m guessing the answer to your point is that you can apply subsequent coats of HWO to a surface that you have waxed. I haven’t tried it but I think I would lightly degrease the waxed surface before applying another coat but that is my Mr Over-engineer.
Glad you've found a product you love! I haven't tried it myself.
@@CoffeyCustomBuilds I’ve sent you a message on Messenger regarding the product
Thanks youtube. No notification on this video today. Had to check insta
Well that's concerning!
Great
Thanks!
I enjoyed this content, thanks for sharing. Unfortunately, this was a little too narrowly focused for me, as you didn't discuss any other products and why you don't use them. For example, I've used Danish Oil before, and I'm about to do a project with Rubio Monocoat for the first time, common variations on tung and linseed oil based finishes. I've also used poly finishes in the past. It would have been helpful to at least have your thoughts on these products among others, so that we could better understand why you use what you use and avoid common alternatives. I know that's a big ask, since there's so many finish options available, but it's not clear from your presentation if you've never tried any other products, or if you find them lacking in key ways.
Unfortunately going over every finish I don't like isn't an option. I can't make a 4 hour video talking about the deficits of every product. No one would ever watch it. Rubio Monocoat is a hard wax oil. It's a solid product but 3 times more expensive than Rustic Lumber and simar results. There are roughly 8,000 poly products on the market.
Thanks for the vid. I use a LED hard wax that cures instantly. Not dries. Cures. It’s amazing. I found with that 150 grit is the good middle ground. 120 is just too rough for my liking but 150 works great. 180 on end grain. I’m definitely keen to move to a conversion varnish for some pieces so appreciate the info.
I used those in the past. I found the finish to look fake almost. It was weird. But I see them becoming very popular as time goes on.