Can You Buy A Cheap Catamaran? - Ep 218 - Lady K Sailing
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- Опубліковано 20 лют 2023
- Can you buy a cheap sailboat catamaran for sailing and cruising in the Caribbean? We talk about older sailing catamarans, boat life, living aboard, and family sailing purchasing a sailboat, finding a deal on a sailing catamaran, and living on a sailboat.
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Sometimes I hate you, convinced myself never a cat. Now I see myself sitting in one having a drink and watching the sun set over the sea! Thanks and keep it up!
why never a cat?
You left out the Lagoon 380 cat for consideration. All the lines and winches are in one location. Less than $200k for 4 cabins and 2 heads. Plus, it has a CE rating for every ocean in the world. I've been solo sailinga 2015 one for 2 years. I just finished a 1,000-mile passage from Puerto Rico to Panama by myself. I wouldn't go back to a monohull. The Panama Canal is next, then French Polynesia.
Do you know if the other larger models have the same setup? I'm looking to get one between 40-50 Feet.
@@jelanibyrd5031 Some of the 39s and 40s are similar. The bigger ones can be harder to sail without a second person.
I sailed a 42 a few years ago. Early 2000s, so around 20 years old and looked tired, but some TLC and it could take on lots more voyages. From memory, the sheets all pretty well came back to the cockpit. I’m sure that after getting used to it you could single hand that lagoon too. Still, I doubt that I’d feel comfortable doing so
Yep, Lagoon380S2 owner here, and it's hard to beat
That's badass 😎 👏 where did you get yours?
I can't even stand to watch this. Anything that is $300,000 is so far out of my reach.
Yeah 300k is not even close to be cheap sailingboat.
You can get 40ft trimaran for 100k and they slide faster than catamarans.
You’re not kidding.
Elbow grease, these were all ready to go.
How about we go in half’s?
I've got some cat sailing experience. All that Tim says is true. I had a performance cat ordered and then my stocks took a dump. But in the meantime I overspent on my 'practice boat,' a Hunter Passage 456, center cockpit it was just too good to pass up (and which I just won't shut up about). Here's something I think I've learned: A 40' Jeanneau is a great sailboat, but my 45' center cockpit is very very close to what sailing on a cat is like. (I don't know if it sails better or faster than the Jeanneau, but it maybe about as close to a cat as a non cat can get. If you have $500k definitely get the cat (but don't get a fat condo cat like a Lagoon or Bali, these are very nice hotel suites that float. They resemble sailboats.) A 45' like mine is not a cat, but it's some of the vibe. Cats I've been on: A Seawind 1600 (53' performance) nothing like it. Zoom. A Fontaine Pajot - okay. Steering didn't work. Thanks Dream Charters (never book a Dream Charter). And a St Francis 50' not a performance cat, but very close.
Galley down works just fine but it's more like a head where you cook in privacy. On the Fontaine Pajot we were all up in the galley and the table preparing dinner, mixing up the salad. Great point. I do all my own cooking; on my 45' mono I like that I can see the big screen TV (because I can't see outside). You won't have that on a galley down in a cat.
Leopard? I've researched a lot of cats. Short of getting a Performance Cat (dagger boards) I've come to think of Leopards as the gold standard. I wouldn't hesitate to pay $150k more for a Leopard over a Lagoon or Bali or Fontaine Pajot that had exactly the same specs and maybe even prettier cushions.
And until you've spent some time on a cat the owners (3) cabin versus 4 cabins seem very similar. But on a 4 cabin what you get as soon as you crawl out of the berth is a door. Not a problem, but your cabin view is a door. An owner's hull just feels open and luxurious.
And those sideways beds up high and the ones that are inline with the hulls? I've spent at least a week in both. About the same. So I wouldn't buy or not buy a boat based on these. That Leopard up berth with the steps? That'd sell me. I can enter my bed on my 45' from the side (like the Leopard, like my bed at home) - it's a plus.
fancy seeing you here ;)
I agree a Cat is the way to go. I did the Delmarva on a IP 40 and I realized the heads are built small not to save space but to be able to brace yourself against the walls. I chartered a Leopard 47 in the USVIs and it was so nice to sail. A little hobby horsey but no yaw or roll. Very stable.
@logdonac confirm that on the small heads. Brace youself while in choppy water.
Love you work! I was really surprised that the GEMINI LEGACY was not included since it is an entry level catamaran.
Although I would love to cruise on a cat, for me it would mean delaying cruising for too many years due to the cost.
Same here!
A galley down arrangement is really good for cabinet and storage space. True, you're not as connected, but if you need some personal space while cooking or cleaning up, having galley down can give you that space. Personally, I'm a galley up girl, but I can see the value in galley down too.
I know this is something that is definitely outside of this channels wheel house, but with all the clear interest out there in cats it would be quite interesting to do a video on “hurricane damaged” or similar cats and roughly what the cost would be to get it right. There seems to be a movement in getting project cats and ppl fixing it up themselves. It would be interesting to see around what it would cost in the end as well as the time it would take just two people. I have my own thoughts on the topic but I’d really like to see yours, as I’m sure many others would as well.
Part of it depends on your age. I'm retired and don't want to spend a whole lot of time fixing up a boat other than ordinary maintenance. Parlay Revival spent four-and-a-half years working on their hurricane-damaged catamaran and still has ongoing issues. I don't have four and a half years to spare.
Now we are talking. This is what I`m looking for. I have chartered both Cat and large Monohull (50') and Cat are the best for warm water live aboard, by far. None of the Cat mention are fast, 10-12 max in the best condition and point of sail and they won`t point that well if you have to go upwind. The main issue with Cat is the cost, to purchase and maintain. Most of them are not that fun to sail except the performance one, which are more money. Of course, there is no free lunch here. Thanks for talking about Cat.
Excellent episode Tim!
The Prout is a slow, built like a tank, long distance cat that is now a little long in the tooth but still a great boat. The Leopards have so much going for them, mainly to me the lack of saildrives which are a safety concern for long distance voyages but also a great design though some don't like the lower bridge deck. Both Leopards have just about everything going for them but truly all 4 of these boats will make someone very happy no matter where they decide to take them. I have never seen a Manta in person and know next to nothing about them but clearly it has been around long enough to prove itself.
I remember your through-hull issue. lmao. You and Candace performed so well during that crisis. You both stepped up, and kept her afloat. Help came along and you accepted it, but had it not you had it in hand. That was a very impressive save and I never said well done, sir. So, well done, Sir! Even better for joking about it a few years later.
Nice work as always!⛵️
I gotta say I love your vids! I am currently saving up for my first boat and your videos are helping me keep my eye on the prize
I applaud you! Keep working it and you will get there.
I would suggest a 1990's privilege 39 is the best deal in entry cats....by far.
loving your awesome lit and pro intros...most other sailing channels totally skimp on this! keep killing it!
Thank you for the kind words. I will try my best to keep improving.
Our last charter was a 42’ 2018 Leopard with the extra fwd cockpit. Amazing it seriously power hungry.
I might have been wrong about the length. Our one prior during Covid in the Whitsundays was a lagoon 420. The Leopard was a fair bit bigger. But I think for cruising ( unlike parking) that forward cockpit could be a real pain.
Thanks for the great video and information!
Prouts galley down works, its not a floating condo. Its designed for seaworthiness in heavy weather. Also look at the mast position, imediatedly in front of the helm, one step from the helmseat puts you at the mast winches. Big furling foresails and tiny mains are a feature of Prouts, makes them easy to singlehand. Speedwise they compare to a monohull of the same length, these are not the 14kt beasts you may be looking for, 8 or 9 on passage is more a prouts thing.
Leopard 42 is nice and considerably more "lively".
Something else to consider, a mono you can keep for weekending and vacation sailing. Not so practical doing that with a cat and i would argue its more suited for that big once in a lifetime sailing adventure. That retirement round the world trip where you buy your cat, refit, circumnavigate then sell ( even if it takes you 10 years ). For anything shorter, save yourself the grief and expense and hire someone else's.
Here I am cruising on an IP 40, but I still like looking at your videos. We are in Georgetown presently, enjoying Regatta, and noticing that the Cats are the party boats. We can host a pretty good sundowner party, but nothing like a big Cat. I'd rather be in my IP than any boat at sea, but those darn Cats are so nice once you get there.
Great video Tim.
Great short and sweet video 😃 would not mind have you look a little more in-depth into the pros and cons of off-shore cruising cat´s and selfsustained long-term live aboard. Something that would also be great is to see a vid on the most common structural, mechanical, electrical issues, such cats have. Thanks for all the work and content you do. Cheers.
Too funny…..i looked at all three online yesterday, plus a broadblue that looked ok but the leopard 43 was the best. Galley down is a dealbreaker!
I"ve done 14kts on a mono hull, but it was a J105 in great winds in the Pacific.
What you say about galley up vs galley down is valid. But galley up almost always means a compromise in space. This typically means far less food preparation and storage space, not to mention a lack of refrigeration capacity. There is simply more room in the hulls to put lots of cupboards, big fridges and lots of benchtop space.
Hi nice cat review. I have a catalac 10m launched in 1987. I specify 😊 this because my old cat has enough headspace for my 6’4”. Not any of the cats you mention have +6’ headspace.
Love this!
There is also an advantage of a cat that I think about a lot. I have never been sea sick on a cat. If I go down below in a heeling mono in rough seas I start to get sick immediately. I admit I have not been in a big storm in a cat but they feel more flat and level generally. i especially think about this for my guests.
Uhh,, galley down is a huge winner in my book! You have guests ,, fire up the BBQ! Or pre cook! I wouldn't,t be into traveling the world but to the Caribbean,, perfect! But I still love the idea of a Tiki!
I love Cats too, but the other disadvantage could be in marinas meaning moorage is only on side ties.
Lots of fun, dreaming about a big cat; but just dreaming since I'll never have three hundred Ks. Well, back to fixing up my old monohull....still gets me out on the water for half the price (and a lot easier to find moorage too).
Exactly! Lady K as a mono still has many many miles in her and I have no problem with that
Good topic but I wouldn't tout extra speed as a benefit of those two catamarans over modern monohulls. In fact they will be slower in light breezes.
Geminis and Prout Snow Goose - many well built older options!
Not only are they kind of built like a house, there's no keel to fall off. Ooo!
Catamarans are expensive as they are designed with complex curves to allow them to go fast through the water as efficiently as possible. Just think how cheap it would be then to build a power catamaran that you only wanted to do 4-5 kts. Basically two joined box sections with a bit of a point at the front of each.
I looked at a Manta. There is very much to like. They were made in USA (I believe the last cat made in USA?). The big bench seat on back is great, as is the "cockpit"/back porch. They are very well loved by their owners and have a great reputation. Unfortunately, there is one problem with the Manta that 100% removed it from my consideration. That is the inside headroom. I'm 6'1" and could not stand without ducking around the edges of the galley, down the steps, and other places. Also, the windows were set up for some really short person, so just to look outside from the main cabin area, I would have to bend over like a foot. No thank you. I wanted to love the boat.
It's me again! Lucky you!
Hmm ... You don't usually allow the house to go over 10kts, but honestly it is easy to get to 7, and not hard to get to 9 or 10. Motor sailing also is nicer than you'd think, low rpm full sail. Cats are great. But yes, you don't really want to go 14-18 very often.
I've seen tons of fully comfortable catamarans world capable for like 165k. This is cool and all but you should have gone even cheaper. There's even 125k capable, if you're willing to sacrifice some space.
Just wondering…is a cat better on low wind days than mono hauls therefore the necessity to turn on the engines would be less. I mean if you have 6kts of wind, would you be still move? Great topic and video as always. You are nailing the lighting and sound! Great job!
That newest Leopard is certainly the most attractive. But did it have non matching engines or was that a generator. And as far as quality goes, i think the Prout is the best. You aren’t going to have to worry about hull cracks and bulkheads pulling loose. Or parts of the bridge deck popping out half was across an ocean. Prout’s are very very proven vessels.
Leopards seem to be very nice as well. The cats I would stay away from are the Lagoons. They seem to have bulkhead attachment issues.
Thanks!
Thank you
What about a Wharram? Seems like it's the least expensive cat. Not as big or fancy as others, but some of the benefits.
2 engines, two sets of maintenance, or is it? Most cats run on one engine at a time as the second engine usually only adds about a knot of speed but will end up using twice as much fuel. If you stick to a maintenance schedule based on 'hours' you will find that you will be working on two engines about the same as a monohull that only has the option of ALWAYS running its ONLY engine.
I think you may have mentioned 'redundancy'? If one breaks, you have a spare (and twice as many spare parts for that one too)
Bit disappointed with this video, no mention of the lagoon 380 which can be picked up for way below 300k or the Lagoon 39, Fountains Pajot etc. Would love another video done on cats under 300k with more variety and what would be the best cat for single handed sailing.
Just discovered your channel, I live in Eastern NC and been looking around at Catamarans for the local shallow sounds. Seems the Gemini Cats are also in the cheap/budget category yes?
Nice sign off!
Thanks for the helpful video!! Do you have any thoughts on the Lagoons and the bulkhead issues that I keep reading about? It seems to be a manufacturers defect and I don't know which years/sizes were impacted or if Lagoon has made changes to their build.
So I just watched a 2007 Lagoon 440. Hurricane damaged in Fort Meyer sell on COPART for $67500. Of course it needs work and lots of it. But it was floating. With its value someone got a decent deal IF they can do the work.
Oh.. and Lady Africa is up for sale.
I wonder if it also needs work on the bulkheads...
thx Tim still on my hughes but loved the vid
You should check out Aventura catamarans .. Not bad on price for brand new
Lagoons? The 380 or 39 would seem a good fit in this discussion. I've found myself drifting towards either in my cat searches, but what do I know, never had one.
If you opt for ex charter post 2017 you get smthg like a Leopard 38/40 for 300-350k. Post 2017 lessens the chance of hurricane damage. Anything pre may have suffered the severe storms around that period.
Going private owned add maybe a daunting 150k. No brainer?
Can you recommend any relatively cheap cats you can safely sail solo? Best regards from Denmark 🇩🇰
Man always enjoy your videos. Always listen to them while building boats. Your voice would be epic for some nautical audiobooks! I would be in! Start with sailing around the world ;-)
Thank you!!!!! I was thinking about do some videos on maritime history
Brilliant
With the new popularity of the Cats, do you think prices (used ) will come down in 3-5 years?
I think that people purchasing sailboats for most common sailing areas will prefer monohulls at $300K and below. The cats become quite competitive in the $300K to $700K area (reflecting prices of boast say 20 years old or newer and very well outfitted for immediate cruising. Cost of ownership for the cat will be higher due to more engines, standing rigging, marina and maintenance fees. At 300K, your selection of such cats is very limited.
What about something like a Smart Cat S280? Not knowing much about blue-water cruising, would that be too small to cross the gulf-stream to play in the bamahas?
Hey you might want to add it when I went to your channel 0 you don't have a link to it so I guess I could type it in but I just thought I'd be a good idea if you go to your link it'll be there and I noticed a lot of these UA-cam channels don't give you a choice; to look at the first or the newest I would love to see some of your first videos but they don't give you a choice anyway love your channel great information this is spark lighting a fire underneath my but I mean I should just buy one thanks great help for everybody out there who wants to get back in the sailing thank you
With more and more cats out there, I’m wondering if finding marina space is becoming a challenge??
It is and it's usually twice the cost.
Our Marina has expanded the Cat docks to accommodate...
@@markalley4810
There are some small traditional harbours in the Med. that have banned them because they are so small but for the most part its about mooring and being able to get into the shallows and dry out if needed...
Wharram set the pattern....
I live on my 46 ft FP Casamance totally self sufficient for 135 thousand.
I've been following you some time now, smart. I've been seeing "some" cats, (older & under 30') for about $120, 000 or much less, though may need some TLC / etc. I still want that Catalac 1M, but I'm allowed to dream huh...?
When or are you getting back on the water?
Buttload of money
😮
Loving it!!
So
300k
Is a lot of rental
Just saying if u dont use that bad boy it seems to b a hole to pour cash into!
Cheers
Missing newer Aventura Cats I think was short sighted. The 34's and 37's are nicely priced. Are they top of the line crafted? No, they are made in Africa probably by starving children but they are cheap.
I love your channel. I suspect that you have not done much with cats because they do cost a lot more. There are many reasons. I will not detail. But you are trying to get people into sailing, which means lowering the price of entry.
Have you seen the indigo lady cat that they built a solar roof and converted to electric. Any chance of a video on what it would take to find a used boat with bad rigging and old engines to do that type of conversion?
Donate for a Dream
Would you consider taking any of these boats and living on them full time while sailing around the world?
When you asked what brand comes to mind when thinking of an inexpensive catamaran, I thought Gemini. I've been trying to find good information as to why they are almost universally ignored.
very narrow, low bridge deck clearance, lots of slamming, not the most comfortable ride.
The Gemini is a coastal Cruiser and not meant for Deepwater.
$300K Good LORD! Bring on the Wharram.
Got a Prout Snowgoose 37 last year. $31,000
Wow, that’s a steal. How much work does she need?
@@Angie-in8wc I have about $7,000 into her, Just got a new survey and its estimated value now is $68,000. If your handy its not that expensive to rebuild a boat. Going to the Bahamas from New England in a few weeks
Mark from Wildlings Sailing - what would he think about this?
Are trimarans cheaper then catamarans? Looking for a first purchase for a family of 4. Read up that catamarans are more comfortable for families, more stable, faster and so on. But seems catamarans are way more expensive over single hull vessels.
So, the question does the size contribute to the cost. I wouldn't think that the cost of the fiber glass is where all the money goes. Or, does it cost so much simply because they can charge it.
Can you do a video on Gemini Cat's? @Lady K Sailing
I am really interested in the Gemini Legacy. Would love to see a video on it and the 105MC
I'd l love to see an episode on the Gemini cats as well... 105M, 105MC, and Legacy. They seem to be the most affordable... almost down to monohull prices... and with such a narrow beam, I believe all are supposed to fit in a regular slip. Reviewing the differences in these 3 models would be fantastic!
I also can't seem to figure out what happened to Gemini. Are they still being made? The Gemini website looks horribly out of date. I've seen scattered information about Catalina and/or Hunter taking over the building of the boats, but nothing concrete. Are they more difficult to maintain since the company seems to be dead?
Love your channel... thanks so much for all your hard work!
Two hulls is one too many ! Cat are party boats not sail boats, the initial cost of 200k + to get it ready to sail will deduct another 20-25k before raising the main sail. Also every time you dock in a marina $$ are coming out of the money bag! Unless you got a lot of money, stay with monohulls…
What about 2008 Fountaine Pajot Orana 44?
Never thought of an advantage of catamaran's to be a separation from the kids pee while swimming. 😀
My options are more in the 10k range
Another couple of brit brands to look into are the Broad blue boats and Rapier 400s ...
Cats are natural for adapting to hybrid power systems and living off grid..on anchor. They are all blue water rated.
The question is SHOULD you buy a cheap catamaran? Finding over 18 foot boat launch around the great lakes is hard.
question: I keep hearing you should expect to spend 10% of the boat price on maintenance PER YEAR.
Because even if I can buy a "cheap" cat at $300K, that still $30K per year. That seems ridiculous to me.
can someone help me understand this. does that make sense?
what about gemini catamaran?
Nice production.
Do you have to have a captains license to sail down the coast into the Caribbean ?
No, but based on my own experience, I'd say take a course from USCG or pay for lessons first. Cheaper in the long run to know something about what you're attempting. Hiring someone with experience to go with you is also a good idea and no shame in it
If i win the lottery i will remember this 😂
👏🍻
Love the channel! I think cats all the way around - initial cost, maintenance, marinas that have room for them, travel lifts that will haul them, and insurance - are significantly more expensive. But even if $$$$$$ wasn't a consideration, if you are a lover of sailing, I mean real sailing, like the feel of a performance monohull cutting through the water when all is set just right, cats just don't have it --at least the ones available at the price point you are considering. Not even close.
*Laughs in Wharram*
What does "cruising" mean? Does it mean sailing across the atlantic? Coz that's what I aspire to one day.
Cruising as opposed to racing. Racing boats are set up for speed not comfort.
Just because a catamaran has 4 room’s it shouldn’t be deemed a “charter boat”. Not picking but I don’t understand that logic from most everyone.
If it has 3 rooms it’s an “owners”
If it has 5 that’s “cool”
But if it has 4 bam its a “charter boat”
Gemini 105 ?
The obvious solution is to buy 2 used monohulls and attach them to each other with PVC and duct tape.
hahaha
Going to disagree with you and go with the Prout here. The down galley doesn't bother me and I really like the cutter rig.
Yeah....I'm not a fan of the layout but Cutter Rig is a huge upside
I'm 6'-4" Guess I'll have to live on deck.
so 2 of 3 are under 300 grand but still high 290"s
Most of us here, I’m guessing, could only afford a cat by selling the house first (hmmm?). A bit different from the usual thrift-centered content but entertaining nonetheless! Thanks!
Now do this for cats under $100k.
A $300k boat is the price of a house. I like something a bit cheaper.