Kyle, thanks for your ongoing very thorough work on EVs. I owned a 2019 Leaf for three years, and really liked the car. But it was also a learning experience for me, and I wanted more from my EV, including CCS fast-charging, and road trips. As I surveyed the SUV EV field over the past year, the Ariya continued to look like the best option for me, and it is certainly the best-looking EV SUV and, in the two-tone paint treatment, per my spec, I think the best-looking SUV overall. I have about 2,500 miles on my 2023 Evolve+ Ariya, and I love the vehicle. I do have some points to counter your observations: - My Evolve+ front-wheel-drive is rated for about 290 miles range, and it will easily do that with heavy-footed driving, and full use of heat or cool etc. If I drive with the intent of maximizing range, 300+ miles equivalent (I don't run it to zero, of course) is do-able, depending on terrain, speed, etc. Most people don't need the thirstier, costlier AWD model. This is really a taller, roomier vehicle than the Tesla Y, so not a direct aero comparison. But with 300 miles of range, I don't really care if Ariya's efficiency number is lower than Tesla. - I find the overall build quality and fit and finish to be excellent, for this price range and certainly better than Tesla. - Among other EVs, especially compared to the Teslas, I prefer Nissan's approach to screens and instrumentation. It's less gimmicky, and more driver-centric. Propilot assist is quite good, and I have tried others. - DC fast-charging speed is important to me, but that extra 10 - 20 minutes is certainly not a deal-breaker. Does Nissan intentionally pace fast-charging to preserve battery longevity? - Yes, there are some software improvements needed, and hopefully that can take place with annual dealer inspection updates or over the air updates. - Do I anticipate a high level of reliability and durability from the Ariya? Yes, I do. - I experienced full one-pedal driving with my Leaf, and didn't use it much. Don't miss it in the Ariya. - Very unfortunate that the Ariya does not (yet) qualify for the tax credit. Not Nissan's fault though. On a separate note, great to see you advocating for better charging experiences and availability!
I think you’re a bit harsh. If you compare it to a Model Y, then it’s better built, more comfortable, quieter, has HUD, heated/ventilated seats, 22kW AC charging (Europe), better cruise control, matrix headlights that actually work, surround-view cameras and parking sensors - ok the software is a bit quirky, but once you’re used to it, it’s OK. It’s not as efficient as the Y and has slower charging, but it’s on par with a lot of competitors.
Yeah. Ariya with no credit, dealer markup, and poor user experience vs Tesla MY Standard range for 50k with $7500 credit, excellent user experience, the best charging network, amazing updates, the list goes on. RIP Ariya
You are correct, disgraced former CEO Carlos Ghosn was the company's main cheerleader for EVs. And the partnership with Renault fell apart. I think after all that turmoil, Nissan just didn't have the executive juice to back EV innovation. I think the Ariya looks hideous and is overpriced. I will keep my 2012 LEAF until the wheels fall off. Even with a degraded battery, it's still my daily driver. I have a hybrid for longer trips.
Kyle, you are so on point! Loved all the information you provide on your UA-cam channel. Especially, the Nissan leaf battery air cool system in the hot climate. I am definitely interested in buying the electric car and I’m trying to determine should I buy used Tesla’s ? Or wait until the new models when they start dropping in prices?😊
I am on my third leaf ( 2012, 2014, 2019) and I had high hopes for the Ariya but the fisker and subaru look good too... I'm glad that you went into the details. Ariya is no longer on the table for me. I can't agree with you more about a CSS option for leafs!
The AWD Subaru has even worse charging. And while production has started on the Fisker, it still remains to be seen if it will last long term. And there's still a BUNCH we don't know about it. Those are rather odd choices to pick over the Ariya.
@@Necrotronxcellent point. In Bjørn Nyland's 1000 km Challenge, the Model Y did 9.5 hours, the Ariya did 10.5 hours while many models do more like 11.5 hours. But the Toyota BZ4X (which uses the same drive train as Subaru Solterra and is essentially the same car), took an astonishing 14.5 hours. Supposedly there will be an update to improve that performance but it's not going to match the Nissan. They are a world apart. On the other hand, as a replacement for a Leaf, i.e. without any road trips, the Subaru would probably be great. It fast-charges ok the first time each day. Just not for subsequent times.
Reason: Carlos Ghosn. He was the power behind the development of the Leaf and of the Renault electrified vehicles. When the Japanese hierarchy dethroned Ghosn for corporate and Japanese political reasons, Nissan stopped being an EV innovator because Ghosn wanted Nissan to go electrified.... and that would lead to chaos inside Nissan. Layoffs, plant closures, just like what is currently happening at Ford Motor. 😮
I 110% agree with you - you hit every single point and why did the EU not make the EU MK2 leaf CCS I can not understand why - they should make a conversion kit publicly available - I am surprised a 3rd party company come out with one at least
The problem is that it is not easy to create a conversion kit. I've heard of someone who attempted to design one and he said it is essentially not possible without some major changes to the car. That comes from the fact that CHAdeMO and CCS work opposite on how communication is initiated. If I'm not mistaken, the car expects the charger to initiate communications before any power can flow, while the charger would be waiting on the car. You would need active electronics to work with that, but as there is no power on the CHAdeMO plug available, you can't power those electronics and can't get a charge going. Add to that that certification is going to be a nightmare and ...
About 20 years ago Calif and Los Angeles had an electric car mandate. It was eventually repealed. We had 4 Nissan EV SUV's that were the size of Chevy Suburban's. They were proprietary EV's not built on a ICE chassis. They had 140 mile range and were colossal. We solar charged them 100% of the time. That was amazing range for the day. Just fantastic vehicles. Problem was the poor attitude from the Nissan staff. Nissan wanted nothing to do with EV's and did you ever feel it when dealing with them.
Just got an Ariya and wanted an SUV /crossover for a long time. Did not want to spend over 100k on Tesla’s Model X and I think Nissan really did a good job. Out the door price for me (without trade in) was 47k for the Evolve+ e-4orce AWD, 87kw. So for the price point, I think it’s a pretty good. If I spent 80k+ then I would agree that it is overpriced. I also prefer Nissans comfortability and style more than other manufacturers (especially the screen) so I am biased in that regard.
You call the Ariya expensive and inefficient, while you drive around a $100k Riven that gets under 2 miles per KWH, your bias against Nissan is clear. You love something with at twice the cost and half the efficiency but, diss on a real car that's big enough for people actually use and purchase. You do this by the way in the top Ariya trim, that no one who cares about the financials would buy as well. Your opinions are based on long hauls with short charging times, that's not the norm for an EV driver, so you don't speak for most of us. Most of us want a full size comfortable car that will take us to work or shopping and back home. All those tiny fast cars you rate so high, isn't what I want. You made some good points, but your bias against Nissan shines through. So much so, that I can't consider your opinion valuable anymore.
re: "You call the Ariya expensive and inefficient, while you drive around a $100k Riven that gets under 2 miles per KWH, your bias against Nissan is clear." yeah, more than a little obvious innit...? 😄
I am reading through some of the comments I am glad to see another person that noted his bias. Wow and he drives a Rivian., that’s laughable. Until he lets go of his biases and just does honest reviews his channel will never have as many views as the top reviewers, and just consist of his fanboys, no one will take him seriously.
@George Kent not that it's any consolation, but what those paying close attention to Kyle's attitude/behavior will likely be aware of is his "pre-existing" NEGATIVE BIAS towards the Nissan Ariya. yeah, he was already "bad mouthing" the vehicle back WEEKS and MONTHS ago both here on his own channel and over on the Inside EV's Podcast... therein (viewed from a context of Psychology) it was pretty obvious he had already MADE UP HIS MIND regarding the Ariya BEFORE it was even on sale, and BEFORE Nissan had provided him this tester so he could drive the bloody thing. hint: Tesla-Stans are "hyper sensitive" to any THREATS posed to Tesla's depressed stock value since the current "scam" in play is the Jordan Belfort (Wolf of Wall Street) PUMP N' DUMP.
Not sure you’re paying enough attention. Kyle’s favourite EV is the Renault Twizy. Yes he has a Rivian, he also loves his Mk1 Leaf and his Smart For2 EV It is almost as if he has owned and driven many, many EVs and has amassed lots of experience on which his judgements are made
This is all true, so don't feel too bad calling it out. Amazing the 2nd gen Leaf was still passive; just crazy. And now this 'long awaited' vehicle ... having so very, very many shortcomings. They've really screwed up ... yet again. Gets harder to recover from back to back muck-ups.
The biggest SIN in my books for new EV's is exactly what you mentioned - the one pedal driving. Looks like I will be keeping my Leaf 2018 for quite some years because of this.
well done . I waited for this car and was so disapointed . The dealer said he cant sell it as it is too expensive. I traded in my Leaf which they gave me what I paid for it 2 years ago and bought a Model 3.
Historically, Japanese manufacturing has generally been top notch. Product design and development has historically been more problematic and spotty. If a Japanese firm hits a winning concept, they can reproduce it, usually reliably. But if the whole category is new, they have to negotiate the gap between Japanese tastes and US tastes and everyone else's, and generally figure out the market. And as a general rule, they will obstinately ignore outside input and will have to figure it out on their own. If they survive. There have been successful exceptions. But the Ariya is a classic example of this renowned obstinacy.
Are we talking about the same EV? I've owned one for four months and am absolutely, positively pleased with the Ariya and its performance. Have had zero issues on the criticisms he points out (and he muddles a lot w/his Leaf side bars). I have been averaging 3.7 kwh, so that's not bad. PS: Who cares about true one pedal driving? Having never experienced prior to driving an EV, it is not an issue and I like being reminded I need to brake as the EV does so much on its own.
This just gives an overall view of Nissan's ability to innovate and come out with new stuff. None of their products are compelling, even Infiniti that hasn't looked or felt like a luxury product in 10 years.
Wow such a harsh review, very contrary to the the other reviews I have listened to. I drove a Ariya a few days ago and I think I am going to buy it. The top line model is expensive, but I will buy one of the lesser models, definitely the best looking SUV out there. It seems like you like you might have a negative bias against Nissan. Your charging specs do not tell the whole story. I think I will listen to Rati’s Rides or Auto Focus for a non-biased review. I hope true buyers of EVs do not fall for this rant!
I think you hit all the points well.. they really failed on this.. and all they needed to do was LISTEN to the people actually using the products.. A lot of big companies fail to do this.. Seemingly obvious and easy to fix issues are just passed along and continue to happen. If someone offered a CCS conversion for a current Nissan Leaf I would consider one.. Road tripping would still be slower, but it would be a great daily driver, that you could at least actually take on a road trip if needed.... The Bolt EV is like this... slow to charge but your CAN do it if needed. The leaf is a little nice and larger inside than a Bolt too..
Nissan needs to focus their future (hopefully near) EV’s on their trucks and quickly address the issues Kyle mentions about the Ariya. The Ariya is definitely one of the better looking EV’s out there.
ID.4 is just better. Faster DCFC, 11kW AC charging instead of 7.2kW, more efficient, better dealer network, better build quality, qualifies for tax credit, and in reality is cheaper than the Ariya which is a big factor.
I have that same model, and drive 95% of my Houston-area miles in it. I love it. It's incredibly reliable, though sexy wouldn't be appropriate as a design descriptor.
What a biased video! Laser focused on the negatives and ignoring all the positives of Nissan Ariya. In fact, I am considering the Ariya as well as Model Y, and here are some advantages of the Ariya: 1. Available as 2-wheel drive, which is cheaper than Model Y (only available as 4WD) 2. Rides more comfortably and quieter than Model Y. 3. Reliability (likely). I own 2013 Nissan Leaf for the last 4 years, and (other than changing 2 tires because of the puncture at no fault of Nissan) I spent not a single cent (!) on maintenance or repairs. I expect Ariya to be similar. Also I expect repairs if needed to be performed faster 4. Charge port at the front -- easier to park at the charger 5. 360 degrees monitor, heads up display -- both of which Tesla lacks 6. Android Auto (not available on Tesla) 7. Matte screens (reduced glare) and physical controls (albeit non-ideal touch ones) In fact, I'm leaning towards Nissan over Tesla! Despite my support for Elon Musk and the Tesla company. Yes, slower charging for Nissan, and far less developed charging infrastructure. But as the second vehicle in the family (hybrid SUV for long travel) it checks all the boxes. The only problem is so does my Leaf... And until it's dead or until I need longer everyday travel (say a new job further away) I am not going to buy either vehicle.
I bought my used 2019 Leaf SV for 21K in 2020. It has been the perfect introduction to EVs for me, and also the perfect second car for our household. Simple, reliable, versatile hatchback, and fun to drive - I use E-pedal quite a bit. Maybe Nissan can redeem themselves somewhat with the third-generation Leaf, which they claim they will continue to build. Make sure it has CCS, active battery cooling, faster charging, retains E-pedal, a little bigger, and minimum 250 mile range and under 35K. Also, since Leafs are already built in the U.S., continuing to build the third-generation Leaf here will also make it eligible for the tax credit. Oh well, I can dream, can't I?
3rd gen Leaf is coming next year to Europe, CCS? Yes, active battery cooling? Yes, faster charging? Yes, little bigger? Yes, but in crossover format, more range? Yes, retains old e-Pedal? No.
Regarding the leaf battery thermals, I just couldn't quite believe that the reason for no implementation was related to engineering hours or design cost. I did some simple searching though and you seem to be correct. Nissan has changed their strategy the last like 10 years focusing on cheaper vehicles, leases/loans and simply finance over being mainly a manufacturing company. Competing with Toyota and Honda engineers got too expensive.
Sorry to say. But it really sound like you are biased. I have been driving EVs now for 4 years as my only driver. 3,5 of those with Tesla. I have now owned the Ariya for 6 months. It is so much better than Tesla in many important ways. Better quality, higher quality materials, drivers much better, extremely much less cabin noise and more. The Tesla beats it at the phone app and DC fast charging peak speed. Having a flat charge curve and maybe slightly conservative peak speeds is probably good in the long run for the battery. "Steering wheel and seat heater is deep in the menus..." It is literally two button presses on the touch screen...
@@bloodycreepy Yep. It's like he's going into the review assuming Nissan has made the best EV in the world since they were first. And gets disappointed when it isn't best in all categories. Not a fair or good review.
@@MaxDrougge i also ran a route plan with the ariya, rwd model 3 and lr model y. for total charging hours on the route, the model 3 cut 15 minutes off the charge time, the model y cut 28 minutes so the ariya was 28 minutes longer than the model y and 15 minutes longer than the model 3 I don't find that bad
An excellent review, In the UK we have 2 or 3 Nissan Qashqai in every street and for owners looking to replace with full electric the Ariya will be where they look first. I just hope they watch this video and avoid a costly mistake. As for the Leaf, in Nov 2021 I was looking for my first EV, I started off at the VW garage who showed no interest in helping me with an ID3 and said they had no stock anyway and didn't know when the would have. Nissan was next, I liked the look of the Leaf but only after I got home did I notice they had a different charging plug to all other makes, that put me right off and reminded me of the old VHS vrs Betamax conflict back in the 70s. Next was Kia who were very helpful and after a 2 hour test drive in an ENiro I was sold and took delivery of an eniro3 4 weeks later and have never looked back.
Front wheel drive = torque steer = front wheel tyres wear out really fast on an fwd EV. Choice of EESM motor means it has to be serviced due to “slip rings” combined with a weak warranty = high TCO. This is not going to be the “rescue car” for Nissan i’m afraid.
Your comment that "Nissan doesn't understand what we're looking for in an electric car" is spot on. The Ariya is too little and too late and essentially a half baked EV solution. All that Nissan has accomplished is drive people away toward looking for better options such as a Model 3 or Y, especially in regards to the continuing price drops that we're seeing from Tesla these days.
Thank you Kyle! Great analysis of Nissan’s failures. Nissan has been sandbagging……Just like Toyota and their Prius for the last 22 yrs…..very little actual improvement 🙄 Most 1st gen leafs here in SoCal have less range than a golf cart!
Great video, agree with most, if not all, your points.. I got Nissan LEAF 2017 as my first EV. Great car to drive around, comfy seats... Then I realized I needed more than 100-miles of range... Realized that Nissan was not coming out with any decent range cars in 2020, so I upgraded to Kia Niro EV 2019 instead... still got that and it's been great to drive, much less range anxiety and better tech... wish the seats were as comfy as LEAF's seats though. Alas... Nissan really dropped the ball on Ariya... mainly its charging speed and aero...
Why expect good aero from a lifted hatchback? The two are not compatible like current ev trucks. Get a sleek sedan if you want better efficiency and less charging stops.
Kyle! You mentioned that you believe that a rear wheel drive is better in the snow than a front wheel drive car. It has always been my belief/myth that the only way to navigate the Northeast winter was either all wheel drive or front wheel drive. I’m intrigued. What is the science/physics of a rear wheel vs front wheel. My belief in this has prevented me from buying any ev that did not have front wheel drive. Maybe now I can consider those vehicles based on your answer. Thanks for fielding my questions.
I agree! I've always heard and believed that FWD is better than RWD in snow. I'd love to hear more about this too as it goes counter to what I've heard elsewhere.
While I have yet to actually drive and readiest an Ayria, I do agree with your thoughts on Nissan and how they have really blown a good thing. I too was disappointed in Leaf 2.0 and not "modernizing" these with active battery thermal management and CCS charger port. And look, I owned a 2018 Nissan Leaf SL and absolutely loved it! It caused me zero issues in the 2.5 years / 45,000 kms I owned and drove it. My family loved it too! However, I learned the first winter I had it that road tripping would be an issue. My real work job in IT Sales means I have clients in various parts of Ontario, mainly southern Ontario. So I need to go to Windsor, Ottawa and sometime Sudbury from the GTA. The first winter trip to Windsor was quite the ordeal in charging times and number of stops. Basically doubled the amount of time I would normally need in an ICEV to do the trip. I'm fine with some sacrifices for the sake of zero-emissions and cost savings, however that was just too much. I eventually traded it for a Model 3 LR and it's a 180 experience with Tesla. Now, saying all this, do I recommend and support the Leaf? Absolutely I do - for the right needs and conditions. All the things you mentioned Kyle are correct and for a commuter or shorter trips BEV, it is really good, affordable and drives very nice. Regarding Nissan in general, I too have been saying a similar message and am disappointed in the lack of EV efforts. I agree, they really could have been a leader. But alas, it is not to be. I've watched several reviews of the Aryia and it is a good BEV, but I hear many of the same issue that you bring up. I know I will enjoy having some time to drive one for a bit and I will give it a recommendation as a good BEV to purchase for sure. However, these limitations and quirks you list are things that really Nissan should know about and have not put them into this vehicle. Especially with so much competition, which continues to grow, as this CUV/SUV space is the hottest in at least North America. The pricing should be lower for what you get and I think this is going to hurt Nissan overall. We will see. Good points and thoughts you bring up Kyle as always and hoping one of these days, we can meet up again to collaborate or at least have a good chat about this industry! Keep up the great work sir!
I think EVs stopped being a priority once Ghosn was no longer the CEO (and subsequently smuggled himself out of Japan), and when the EV market started to pick up steam, Nissan found itself with a gutted EV division. Now they're finding themselves in the position of having to catch up to the point they had previously been at.
Objectively speaking, the charging standard in America is the North American Charging Standard (NACS). NACS is the most common charging standard in North America: NACS vehicles outnumber CCS two-to-one, and Tesla’s Supercharging network has 60% more NACS posts than all the CCS-equipped networks combined. Is Kyle that uninformed?
Is it the Japanese culture of not wanting to criticise superiors, not wanting to point out past mistakes? Great doing this in seemingly one take! CCS retrofit for old Leafs, genius. Could even profit slightly on it.
Might be. Or might be the 21st-century corporate culture of outrageous profit-taking by company leaders, leaving too little for research and development. A whole line of products akin to “abandonware.”
It will be interesting to see how many of these they sell. It’s a pretty good looking vehicle but with dealer markups, lack of tax credit when financing, slower charging than the competition, and bad efficiency, there doesn’t seem to be a compelling reason to buy this over ID4 or Model Y (especially with even more price drops today).
I’m disappointed in the relatively weak charging of the Aryia given Nissans EV experience. Hyundai and Kia did it far better with the E-GMP platform despite their lower experience level with EVs.
I wouldn't dispute that CCS has won the connector battle in the US but what I will say is that i've never had a problem with CHAdeMO equipment working correctly with my Soul EV while everyone else around me can't seem to consistently use CCS equipment to save their life. Nissan is clearly using the more reliable standard on the leaf. It's also not a very accurate blanket statement that they're ripping CHAdeMO chargers out everywhere. They're installing them everywhere at least in the southeast in order to get government funding for the installations.
CHAdeMO was always the better standard but EU now mandates CCS Combo and US the same for NACS so now that Nissan nows the 3rd gen Leaf will come with those connectors and CHAdeMO will remain for Asia only.
I agree 100%, the Ariya is priced totally wrong, that is why I quickly ruled it out of any possibility of purchasing it or even recommending it to anyone. And yes who they refer to as Carlos Goan (yes, not pronounced properly, actually it is Ghosn, which means tree branch in arabic), did no service to the company at all financially speaking
I would image this video is oddly personal to a lot of LEAF owners. I bought our (2) 2018 LEAF SL's in early 2020 just after dealers reopened to the public. They both had about 10k miles on them and the combined price was substantially less than a model Y. Initially, it seemed like a brilliant decision as we traveled around the southeast using deserted EA and old EVGO sites. It felt like we belonged to a secret society who's members agreed to never meet. Fast forward to 2023 and things have changed rather drastically. I think back with fond memories of a desolate CPE-250, with it's warm green glow wicking through an early morning mist announcing "welcome friend, I am available". There's no more green.. only blue. The single Chademo EA's are all broken or taken by an ID4 charing to 150%. 50kw EVGOs are now an additional parking space. I absolutely agree with Kyle's plea to Nissan to offer a CCS retrofit. It really is the only thing that will keep our LEAFs viable in the years to come. That is especially true now with the Tesla magic dock coming online. Yes the passive cooling is an issue, but a complete inability to fast charge is devastating.
I own a 2020 Leaf S Plus. I bought it used a year ago. Ive been seriously considering selling it for the last few months. It's missing some of the features of my 2016 Soul EV. I think it could be more efficient but it has taken me around 8000 miles really without issue. Except for a cell that malfunctioned in the first 30 days, it has performed ok. Thanks for sharing your opinion!
You need to do a rant video regarding the Bolt EV and the EUV. It's even more confounding. Edit: yes, the Bolt from a price stand point is great. I'm talking now about the fact that there really really really isn't much to justify having 2 Bolts based on current specs
I appeciate your critique of the Ariya! I did however just lease one 😆 I got an Engage e4orce with the smaller battery I had to trade a 2020 Ioniq electric with 60,000 miles and had to dump that puppy quick! Soooo, some things you didn't mention. The car is super comfortable, the interior is detailed nicely,and some of us still like some creature comfort buttons. The software does suck, I should not have to try that hard to warm my ass this winter in Boston! Also you have to learn how to stop the car smoothly, she's a jumper 🫤It's only been a month and by Dec 2023 , there were good lease incentives, through Nissan, plus a $3,500 MA state rebate. Anyone agree it's not a total loser ? In 3 years I can drop it off and get something else
I absolutely love my 2018 Leaf. In two years of owning it, I have never needed fast charging. Still waiting for an equality amazing car that can be used for road trips.
I had such high hope for Ariya for the last 5 years; holding out between Model Y and Ioniq 5. After hearing Kyle compared the specs, I'm holding back until 2024 EV models to comes out and keeping my Honda Citify PHEV for the rest of 2023.
I agree with a lot of what you said. Tesla model Y has a very high efficiency using the MPGe figure of merit. Tesla has state of the art technology, especially with production using giga, castings and a lot of vertical integration. With the price cut and tax credits, the model Y is selling like there’s no tomorrow. I finally drove one last fall and was shocked.: it rode like a brick. Like a 1970 MGB. Plus the ground clearance was ho-hum. Air suspension would clean both of those issues up. Car and driver also criticized the Tesla model Y. They liked the Tesla model 3. But when Tesla evolved, the model 3 into the model Y they said it lost a lot. In fact, when they compared it to similar electric vehicles, they ranked it ninth not first. I have a 2015 BMW 328D sport wagon rides pretty nice. I liked driving the Ariya because of the higher driving position, comfort and quietness. Car and driver rated the BMW iX number one, but that’s too expensive for me. So I don’t know which EV I’m going to get now.
Having purchased one of the first gen Nissan Leaf and suffered through all the shenanigans and blatant disregard (deceit and lies) of Nissan, I have ZERO sympathy for Nissan. They did this to themselves. Ariya will be a failure for all the reasons you mentioned and the KARMA that Nissan built for itself. The only thing that might save them is to come clean and do good by all the early adopters, but that would cost them $$$ and there's too many execs that would have to forgo their bonuses.. Thank you for not holding back and honestly ripping Nissan as they deserve, you went easy on them. I would have not been as nice as you.... Would love to have someone do a mod for Chademo to CCS, and a better battery, but it would be expensive... not worth it.
Why did it take Nissan so long and why has it taken GM so long after making the Volt/Bolt? I like the looks and specs of the Ariya, it’s just too expensive. They seem to have made this with the EV tax credits in mind and then didn’t adjust when they lost them.
Do you have a video explaining why in electric vehicles rear wheel drive is the safer option, when so many people have been taught their whole lives that front wheel drive was safer before ?
With the Model Y being priced as it is now, I don't see why anyone would purchase any other EV SUV (not including Bolt EUV). The only fair reason I could see is if you just don't like the look of the Model Y, but other than that you're just wasting money in the long run for inferior products.
I think the charging is decent, especially after dealing with a Bolt, but if we're trying to convert gas owners to switch to EVs, 130kW peak isn't going to go over well.
This is why all the japanese makers are hosed. There is no way they can beat tesla margins. Also they will have dwindling amounts of cash as they sell fewer ice cars
@@TeslaRoadtrips Exactly. Everyone keeps talking about the competition, but the hardest times are still ahead of them. No one but the government will finance them through the valley of death.
Even if you are on the right track, you still get run over if you just sit there….The old saying applies to Nissan in this case. I was hoping that this would be a great car, but it’s very disappointing. It is a great looking car, but the range, charging speeds and software all leave something to be desired. We own a Mache GT, and it has its limitations, but one thing that I think Ford got right, with both the Lightning and Mache, was the driver experience is very much like driving a ice car, but only faster. Hopefully Nissan can do some software updates and improve the experience.
Actually, the LEAF wasn't the first mass-produced EV. The i-MiEV came to market 9 months earlier. To be honest, I like the look of the original LEAF better (but I'm biased, having owned a 2012 model). I'd much rather have that style if only it had sufficient range for 250+ mile roadtrips, a TMS, and a CCS1 receptacle. Also… at least the LEAF has one-pedal driving, something that the Ariya lacks -most unfortunately. I do agree with you, nonetheless, that Nissan really dropped the ball: they could be the EV frontrunner instead of Tesla if they'd simply kept current with emerging features. Tsk.
@@leetjohnson Sorry, it certainly was mass produced, not only as the Mitsubishi i-MiEV, but also as the Peugeot iOn and the Citroën C-Zero in Europe. Ah, but since YOU have never seen or heard of one… that's what matters, huh? I guess I was imagining things when I test drove two of them, once in Sacramento and again in Los Angeles. Robert Llewellyn must have also been imagining things with his first EV on Fully Charged: ua-cam.com/video/bMtNkB8iFyI/v-deo.html
@@Josh-179 Ah, well, you must know best. 50,000 were sold worldwide, but only 1,800 in the USA. The Bugattii Chiron, on the other hand, tallies 400 built so far out of 500 planned. Whoops.
@@leetjohnson True, but unlike the i-MiEV and LEAF, the EV1 was never sold, only leased, and then GM gathered them up and crushed them. Most unfortunately. Otherwise, I would have bought one in a heartbeat.
@@leetjohnson Huh. Just an aficionado, not an "authority," but I apparently do more know a bit more of the history than those Motortrend authors -and you, who can Gtfoh yourself, troll.
If the top spec car cost what the entry level car cost then we would have something? LOL No one has that much equipment for $43k. If I could get a Tesla Plaid with FSD for the base price then we would have something?
Nissan dropped the ball for years, was a proud Nissan Altima Hybrid owner till Nissan refused to address hybrid recall issues for Altima Hybrids using Toyota hybrid system. I bought Tesla MY and will never go back to a Nissan.
I contacted nissan about offering a ccs upgrade for my leaf and I was told that they are "encouraging" (paying) chargepoint, evgo, and EA have at least one chademo connector on each site. Therfore they would not be offering a ccs upgrade for the leaf
@jeffpro18 well no...rumor had it 2025 will be the end of the LEAF which is a shame because now that the bolt is discontinued the LEAF is the last affordable EV on the market
Q: Are the inductions motors part of the efficiency issue? A: it's possible but less likely in the basic sense considering a major part of the Tesla "claim to fame" centers around the use of Induction motors. of course the motors themselves are only a "piece" (or is that dual piece...?) of the electric drive equation.
No, the efficiency "issue" is that the Ariya isn't the most aerodynamic EV out there and it suffers when driving at high speeds, I drive mine at 55mph most of the time and I'm getting around 330 miles without effort, pretty efficient powertrain.
I am at my second Leaf, I had a 2014, and now a 2018. Very good car, but no good for road trips. I cannot understand they remove the "E-PEDAL" on the ARIYA
Nissan said for safety reasons, some people has had accidents with it due to getting overconfident with it, like arriving to a traffic light in red and taking your phone in advance meanwhile the e-Pedal is getting the car to a stop and run over a pedestrian in the process. So Nissan thought that if the e-Pedal system forced the driver to manually stop the car at the very last part of reducing speed (from 5mph to 0) then that situation will be significantly reduced among others.
@@Cosmycal I dont understand how the e-pedal taking the car to a stop can lead to hitting a pedestrian ?? Anyway, all the other electric car have an e-pedal, and i feel more insecure when i forget to engage it
I was also hopeful for the Ariya until the pricing was announced - we ended up getting a Model 3 RWD and love it. In addition to their financial straits, I think Nissan fell into the trap that all Japanese car makers seem to have fallen for: Believing that hydrogen fuel cells would be a viable alternative to EVs, so they underinvested and are now just pivoting to try and catch up. I hope it's not too late for them.
Great video, have owned 3 leaf's currently have two a 2013 with the 24 kWh battery and a 2016 with a 30kWh battery. We love our little Leaf's but but but, they are an around town car. I can not ever see myself purchasing another electric Nissan. Why well it's the battery and CHAdeMO, I feel Nissan has left Leaf owners "high and dry" Fool me once............
Nissan appears to be overlooking the resources that its dealerships could provide. We recently bought a 2020 Leaf at CarMax. We tried to work with three different Nissan dealers in our region, but they all kept trying to redirect us to vehicles we didn’t want, and they didn’t seem inclined to pay attention to what we said our needs were. The whole company should be working harder to understand and meet customer needs and preferences.
actually, the first 2 years 2011-12 nissan leafs are plagued with electrical failures, such as ptc heater, electronic brake and parking brake system, and especially the on-board charger. if you have these models with the early versions of the on-board charger, i WILL fail.
63 grand, geez. These legacy automakers have an inflated sense of worth. Get over yourselves and compete. Also, there are way too many options in the expensive crossover space. How thin of a pie slice do you want?
Right on with your review. Nissan has been a puzzle, nearly went bankrupt. There were quality control issues with their ICE vehicles. Electric vehicles were not their focus. Probably only few people working in the EV department. Perpetually will be an under performer. I always wanted a Z car, a pretty decent sports car that is moderately priced
I have a stupid, irrelevant question. Is he getting wet? The asphalt looks wet, but he doesn't and the roofs and the ground in the background don't. Or is the snow just melting fast on the asphalt because the asphalt is holding heat?
0:10 - It really depends on your definition of "mass produced"… Even if you're only counting "late '00s Lithium Ion highway-capable, not niche rich person toy", the Mitsubishi i-MiEV beat the Leaf by a year. Obviously the original Tesla Roadster beat it by a few years. The late '90s EV1, first-gen RAV4 EV, Ford Ranger EV, Chevy S-10 EV and a few others were also, for some definitions, "mass produced." Then there are the waaaay-old late 1800s/early 1900s EVs that were even the *majority* of automobiles produced until gasoline finally took off in the 1910s/1920s. The Leaf certainly is the "highest production early Lithium Ion EV", though.
Corruption is deadly to an organization. Nissan with Carlos Ghosn. Yes, Nissan ran out of money. It shows in most of their vehicles. They have some wins, and some positive attributes, but net net they’re not great cars.
Kyle, thanks for your ongoing very thorough work on EVs. I owned a 2019 Leaf for three years, and really liked the car. But it was also a learning experience for me, and I wanted more from my EV, including CCS fast-charging, and road trips.
As I surveyed the SUV EV field over the past year, the Ariya continued to look like the best option for me, and it is certainly the best-looking EV SUV and, in the two-tone paint treatment, per my spec, I think the best-looking SUV overall.
I have about 2,500 miles on my 2023 Evolve+ Ariya, and I love the vehicle. I do have some points to counter your observations:
- My Evolve+ front-wheel-drive is rated for about 290 miles range, and it will easily do that with heavy-footed driving, and full use of heat or cool etc. If I drive with the intent of maximizing range, 300+ miles equivalent (I don't run it to zero, of course) is do-able, depending on terrain, speed, etc. Most people don't need the thirstier, costlier AWD model.
This is really a taller, roomier vehicle than the Tesla Y, so not a direct aero comparison. But with 300 miles of range, I don't really care if Ariya's efficiency number is lower than Tesla.
- I find the overall build quality and fit and finish to be excellent, for this price range and certainly better than Tesla.
- Among other EVs, especially compared to the Teslas, I prefer Nissan's approach to screens and instrumentation. It's less gimmicky, and more driver-centric. Propilot assist is quite good, and I have tried others.
- DC fast-charging speed is important to me, but that extra 10 - 20 minutes is certainly not a deal-breaker. Does Nissan intentionally pace fast-charging to preserve battery longevity?
- Yes, there are some software improvements needed, and hopefully that can take place with annual dealer inspection updates or over the air updates.
- Do I anticipate a high level of reliability and durability from the Ariya? Yes, I do.
- I experienced full one-pedal driving with my Leaf, and didn't use it much. Don't miss it in the Ariya.
- Very unfortunate that the Ariya does not (yet) qualify for the tax credit. Not Nissan's fault though.
On a separate note, great to see you advocating for better charging experiences and availability!
Your ability to just spitball and rant so cohesively is incredible. You are an incredible communicator with a lot of knowledge!
I think you’re a bit harsh. If you compare it to a Model Y, then it’s better built, more comfortable, quieter, has HUD, heated/ventilated seats, 22kW AC charging (Europe), better cruise control, matrix headlights that actually work, surround-view cameras and parking sensors - ok the software is a bit quirky, but once you’re used to it, it’s OK. It’s not as efficient as the Y and has slower charging, but it’s on par with a lot of competitors.
When this guy said Nissan was broke, I could not take him seriously
And just last night, the SR AWD 4680 Model Y is now priced at $49,990 and qualifies for $7,500 credit... RIP Ariya
Yeah. Ariya with no credit, dealer markup, and poor user experience vs Tesla MY Standard range for 50k with $7500 credit, excellent user experience, the best charging network, amazing updates, the list goes on. RIP Ariya
just what I was getting ready to comment. Say what you want about Tesla/Elon.....on paper the its the Model Y for me.
Neither in my budget range but even I would take a Tesla over the Nissan.
Price isn't everything but then again you couldnt pay me to drive any tesla.
@@samusaran7317 Even then, I don't know why you would choose this over other EV competitors.
👍 that’s the kind of honest car review we need.
This is my favorite video from OutOfSpec Reviews to date.
Thank you for the video and the honest review.
Kyle is so honest and straight forward. Has earned trust. Thank you Kyle
Wasn't CEO Ghosn the one who got the Leaf started? And then they ran him out of town and put EV's on back burner (or dumpster?).
You are correct, disgraced former CEO Carlos Ghosn was the company's main cheerleader for EVs. And the partnership with Renault fell apart. I think after all that turmoil, Nissan just didn't have the executive juice to back EV innovation. I think the Ariya looks hideous and is overpriced. I will keep my 2012 LEAF until the wheels fall off. Even with a degraded battery, it's still my daily driver. I have a hybrid for longer trips.
At least the Ariya has the charge port in the right place for using Tesla chargers.
Kyle, you are so on point! Loved all the information you provide on your UA-cam channel. Especially, the Nissan leaf battery air cool system in the hot climate. I am definitely interested in buying the electric car and I’m trying to determine should I buy used Tesla’s ? Or wait until the new models when they start dropping in prices?😊
lol, nice Murano Cabrio joke. I see you, K.
I am on my third leaf ( 2012, 2014, 2019) and I had high hopes for the Ariya but the fisker and subaru look good too... I'm glad that you went into the details. Ariya is no longer on the table for me.
I can't agree with you more about a CSS option for leafs!
The AWD Subaru has even worse charging. And while production has started on the Fisker, it still remains to be seen if it will last long term. And there's still a BUNCH we don't know about it. Those are rather odd choices to pick over the Ariya.
@@Necrotronxcellent point. In Bjørn Nyland's 1000 km Challenge, the Model Y did 9.5 hours, the Ariya did 10.5 hours while many models do more like 11.5 hours. But the Toyota BZ4X (which uses the same drive train as Subaru Solterra and is essentially the same car), took an astonishing 14.5 hours. Supposedly there will be an update to improve that performance but it's not going to match the Nissan. They are a world apart.
On the other hand, as a replacement for a Leaf, i.e. without any road trips, the Subaru would probably be great. It fast-charges ok the first time each day. Just not for subsequent times.
The Subaru is a dog, utterly ruined by Toyota’s terrible EV tech
@@Necrotron Craptaculous :( But from this, the Ariya isn't on my list any more.
@@bill_heywood so sad :(
Reason: Carlos Ghosn. He was the power behind the development of the Leaf and of the Renault electrified vehicles. When the Japanese hierarchy dethroned Ghosn for corporate and Japanese political reasons, Nissan stopped being an EV innovator because Ghosn wanted Nissan to go electrified.... and that would lead to chaos inside Nissan. Layoffs, plant closures, just like what is currently happening at Ford Motor. 😮
I 110% agree with you - you hit every single point and why did the EU not make the EU MK2 leaf CCS I can not understand why - they should make a conversion kit publicly available - I am surprised a 3rd party company come out with one at least
The problem is that it is not easy to create a conversion kit. I've heard of someone who attempted to design one and he said it is essentially not possible without some major changes to the car. That comes from the fact that CHAdeMO and CCS work opposite on how communication is initiated.
If I'm not mistaken, the car expects the charger to initiate communications before any power can flow, while the charger would be waiting on the car. You would need active electronics to work with that, but as there is no power on the CHAdeMO plug available, you can't power those electronics and can't get a charge going.
Add to that that certification is going to be a nightmare and ...
Muxsan, a Dutch company, offer a CCS conversion. It costs 3000 Euros.
@@marcg1686 this is the same company upgraded and replacing the battery packs of LEAFs and other bit repairs and changes?
The EU? Do you mean why did >>Nissan
@@QALibrary They do offer battery extension packs.
About 20 years ago Calif and Los Angeles had an electric car mandate. It was eventually repealed.
We had 4 Nissan EV SUV's that were the size of Chevy Suburban's. They were proprietary EV's not built on a ICE chassis. They had 140 mile range and were colossal. We solar charged them 100% of the time. That was amazing range for the day. Just fantastic vehicles. Problem was the poor attitude from the Nissan staff. Nissan wanted nothing to do with EV's and did you ever feel it when dealing with them.
Holy cow, i need to look those up!
Just got an Ariya and wanted an SUV /crossover for a long time. Did not want to spend over 100k on Tesla’s Model X and I think Nissan really did a good job. Out the door price for me (without trade in) was 47k for the Evolve+ e-4orce AWD, 87kw. So for the price point, I think it’s a pretty good. If I spent 80k+ then I would agree that it is overpriced. I also prefer Nissans comfortability and style more than other manufacturers (especially the screen) so I am biased in that regard.
You call the Ariya expensive and inefficient, while you drive around a $100k Riven that gets under 2 miles per KWH, your bias against Nissan is clear. You love something with at twice the cost and half the efficiency but, diss on a real car that's big enough for people actually use and purchase. You do this by the way in the top Ariya trim, that no one who cares about the financials would buy as well.
Your opinions are based on long hauls with short charging times, that's not the norm for an EV driver, so you don't speak for most of us. Most of us want a full size comfortable car that will take us to work or shopping and back home. All those tiny fast cars you rate so high, isn't what I want.
You made some good points, but your bias against Nissan shines through. So much so, that I can't consider your opinion valuable anymore.
yep I noticed that also in his Aryia review 240 miles on the highway at 70 mph with some wind out of an EPA of 262 miles was bad efficiency
re: "You call the Ariya expensive and inefficient, while you drive around a $100k Riven that gets under 2 miles per KWH, your bias against Nissan is clear." yeah, more than a little obvious innit...? 😄
I am reading through some of the comments I am glad to see another person that noted his bias. Wow and he drives a Rivian., that’s laughable. Until he lets go of his biases and just does honest reviews his channel will never have as many views as the top reviewers, and just consist of his fanboys, no one will take him seriously.
@George Kent not that it's any consolation, but what those paying close attention to Kyle's attitude/behavior will likely be aware of is his "pre-existing" NEGATIVE BIAS towards the Nissan Ariya. yeah, he was already "bad mouthing" the vehicle back WEEKS and MONTHS ago both here on his own channel and over on the Inside EV's Podcast...
therein (viewed from a context of Psychology) it was pretty obvious he had already MADE UP HIS MIND regarding the Ariya BEFORE it was even on sale, and BEFORE Nissan had provided him this tester so he could drive the bloody thing. hint: Tesla-Stans are "hyper sensitive" to any THREATS posed to Tesla's depressed stock value since the current "scam" in play is the Jordan Belfort (Wolf of Wall Street) PUMP N' DUMP.
Not sure you’re paying enough attention. Kyle’s favourite EV is the Renault Twizy. Yes he has a Rivian, he also loves his Mk1 Leaf and his Smart For2 EV
It is almost as if he has owned and driven many, many EVs and has amassed lots of experience on which his judgements are made
This is all true, so don't feel too bad calling it out. Amazing the 2nd gen Leaf was still passive; just crazy. And now this 'long awaited' vehicle ... having so very, very many shortcomings. They've really screwed up ... yet again. Gets harder to recover from back to back muck-ups.
The biggest SIN in my books for new EV's is exactly what you mentioned - the one pedal driving. Looks like I will be keeping my Leaf 2018 for quite some years because of this.
Yeah OPD is my favorite thing about driving my 2019 Bolt
well done . I waited for this car and was so disapointed . The dealer said he cant sell it as it is too expensive. I traded in my Leaf which they gave me what I paid for it 2 years ago and bought a Model 3.
Definitely! I can't believe Nissan priced this at the level they priced it. Who is going to buy it at the current price.
Historically, Japanese manufacturing has generally been top notch. Product design and development has historically been more problematic and spotty.
If a Japanese firm hits a winning concept, they can reproduce it, usually reliably. But if the whole category is new, they have to negotiate the gap between Japanese tastes and US tastes and everyone else's, and generally figure out the market. And as a general rule, they will obstinately ignore outside input and will have to figure it out on their own. If they survive.
There have been successful exceptions. But the Ariya is a classic example of this renowned obstinacy.
The dumb and dumber to reference is spot on!
Are we talking about the same EV? I've owned one for four months and am absolutely, positively pleased with the Ariya and its performance. Have had zero issues on the criticisms he points out (and he muddles a lot w/his Leaf side bars). I have been averaging 3.7 kwh, so that's not bad. PS: Who cares about true one pedal driving? Having never experienced prior to driving an EV, it is not an issue and I like being reminded I need to brake as the EV does so much on its own.
As a former LEAF-owner I can tell you that the E-pedal in the Ariya works better even though it does not stop the car completely.
This just gives an overall view of Nissan's ability to innovate and come out with new stuff. None of their products are compelling, even Infiniti that hasn't looked or felt like a luxury product in 10 years.
Wow such a harsh review, very contrary to the the other reviews I have listened to. I drove a Ariya a few days ago and I think I am going to buy it. The top line model is expensive, but I will buy one of the lesser models, definitely the best looking SUV out there. It seems like you like you might have a negative bias against Nissan. Your charging specs do not tell the whole story. I think I will listen to Rati’s Rides or Auto Focus for a non-biased review. I hope true buyers of EVs do not fall for this rant!
I'm really enjoying mine honestly
I think you hit all the points well.. they really failed on this.. and all they needed to do was LISTEN to the people actually using the products.. A lot of big companies fail to do this.. Seemingly obvious and easy to fix issues are just passed along and continue to happen.
If someone offered a CCS conversion for a current Nissan Leaf I would consider one.. Road tripping would still be slower, but it would be a great daily driver, that you could at least actually take on a road trip if needed.... The Bolt EV is like this... slow to charge but your CAN do it if needed.
The leaf is a little nice and larger inside than a Bolt too..
Kyle needs to pursue the process to convert Chadmo to CCS. Kyle, how about it??
Nissan needs to focus their future (hopefully near) EV’s on their trucks and quickly address the issues Kyle mentions about the Ariya. The Ariya is definitely one of the better looking EV’s out there.
It seems like the Ariya is very similar to the ID.4. I wonder which one Kyle would choose if they were priced the same.
ID.4 is just better. Faster DCFC, 11kW AC charging instead of 7.2kW, more efficient, better dealer network, better build quality, qualifies for tax credit, and in reality is cheaper than the Ariya which is a big factor.
And, as Kyle said, the base ID.4 is RWD, while the base Ariya is FWD.
I seem to recall that his wife recently bought an ID4.
@@pechaa his ex’s sister I think.
@nothere572 ID4 is not just better, it's worse in some departments than the Ariya for sure
I have that same model, and drive 95% of my Houston-area miles in it. I love it. It's incredibly reliable, though sexy wouldn't be appropriate as a design descriptor.
What a biased video! Laser focused on the negatives and ignoring all the positives of Nissan Ariya. In fact, I am considering the Ariya as well as Model Y, and here are some advantages of the Ariya:
1. Available as 2-wheel drive, which is cheaper than Model Y (only available as 4WD)
2. Rides more comfortably and quieter than Model Y.
3. Reliability (likely). I own 2013 Nissan Leaf for the last 4 years, and (other than changing 2 tires because of the puncture at no fault of Nissan) I spent not a single cent (!) on maintenance or repairs. I expect Ariya to be similar. Also I expect repairs if needed to be performed faster
4. Charge port at the front -- easier to park at the charger
5. 360 degrees monitor, heads up display -- both of which Tesla lacks
6. Android Auto (not available on Tesla)
7. Matte screens (reduced glare) and physical controls (albeit non-ideal touch ones)
In fact, I'm leaning towards Nissan over Tesla! Despite my support for Elon Musk and the Tesla company.
Yes, slower charging for Nissan, and far less developed charging infrastructure. But as the second vehicle in the family (hybrid SUV for long travel) it checks all the boxes. The only problem is so does my Leaf... And until it's dead or until I need longer everyday travel (say a new job further away) I am not going to buy either vehicle.
I bought my used 2019 Leaf SV for 21K in 2020. It has been the perfect introduction to EVs for me, and also the perfect second car for our household. Simple, reliable, versatile hatchback, and fun to drive - I use E-pedal quite a bit. Maybe Nissan can redeem themselves somewhat with the third-generation Leaf, which they claim they will continue to build. Make sure it has CCS, active battery cooling, faster charging, retains E-pedal, a little bigger, and minimum 250 mile range and under 35K. Also, since Leafs are already built in the U.S., continuing to build the third-generation Leaf here will also make it eligible for the tax credit. Oh well, I can dream, can't I?
Model 3 base is 41k and has all that and a bag of chips.
3rd gen Leaf is coming next year to Europe, CCS? Yes, active battery cooling? Yes, faster charging? Yes, little bigger? Yes, but in crossover format, more range? Yes, retains old e-Pedal? No.
Its not really fair to compare an SUV crossover to a leaf for efficiency. With that said my bolt is only getting 2.9-3.1 mi/kw right now...
Regarding the leaf battery thermals, I just couldn't quite believe that the reason for no implementation was related to engineering hours or design cost. I did some simple searching though and you seem to be correct. Nissan has changed their strategy the last like 10 years focusing on cheaper vehicles, leases/loans and simply finance over being mainly a manufacturing company. Competing with Toyota and Honda engineers got too expensive.
Both Toyota and Honda have rubbish electric cars that one can only laugh at.
Sorry to say. But it really sound like you are biased. I have been driving EVs now for 4 years as my only driver. 3,5 of those with Tesla. I have now owned the Ariya for 6 months. It is so much better than Tesla in many important ways. Better quality, higher quality materials, drivers much better, extremely much less cabin noise and more. The Tesla beats it at the phone app and DC fast charging peak speed.
Having a flat charge curve and maybe slightly conservative peak speeds is probably good in the long run for the battery.
"Steering wheel and seat heater is deep in the menus..." It is literally two button presses on the touch screen...
you can also use voice commands for the seats or turn the auto on feature which reacts to the outside temps for your auto climate control
@@bloodycreepy Yep. It's like he's going into the review assuming Nissan has made the best EV in the world since they were first. And gets disappointed when it isn't best in all categories. Not a fair or good review.
@@MaxDrougge i also ran a route plan with the ariya, rwd model 3 and lr model y. for total charging hours on the route, the model 3 cut 15 minutes off the charge time, the model y cut 28 minutes so the ariya was 28 minutes longer than the model y and 15 minutes longer than the model 3 I don't find that bad
@@bloodycreepy Considering the drive comfort and quiet cabin it's a better trade off for us.
@@MaxDrougge exactly he made it out that it was big difference
An excellent review, In the UK we have 2 or 3 Nissan Qashqai in every street and for owners looking to replace with full electric the Ariya will be where they look first. I just hope they watch this video and avoid a costly mistake. As for the Leaf, in Nov 2021 I was looking for my first EV, I started off at the VW garage who showed no interest in helping me with an ID3 and said they had no stock anyway and didn't know when the would have. Nissan was next, I liked the look of the Leaf but only after I got home did I notice they had a different charging plug to all other makes, that put me right off and reminded me of the old VHS vrs Betamax conflict back in the 70s.
Next was Kia who were very helpful and after a 2 hour test drive in an ENiro I was sold and took delivery of an eniro3 4 weeks later and have never looked back.
Front wheel drive = torque steer = front wheel tyres wear out really fast on an fwd EV.
Choice of EESM motor means it has to be serviced due to “slip rings” combined with a weak warranty = high TCO.
This is not going to be the “rescue car” for Nissan i’m afraid.
Your comment that "Nissan doesn't understand what we're looking for in an electric car" is spot on. The Ariya is too little and too late and essentially a half baked EV solution. All that Nissan has accomplished is drive people away toward looking for better options such as a Model 3 or Y, especially in regards to the continuing price drops that we're seeing from Tesla these days.
Thank you Kyle!
Great analysis of Nissan’s failures. Nissan has been sandbagging……Just like Toyota and their Prius for the last 22 yrs…..very little actual improvement 🙄
Most 1st gen leafs here in SoCal have less range than a golf cart!
I agree the Airya is pretty disappointing, but I think out of the Japanese EV SUVs, I’d get it over the bZ4X and Solterra
Still, Nissan makes better EVs than
Toyota
Honda
Mitsubishi
Subaru
Isuzu
Mazda
Suzuki
They are not noted for battery fires.
Great video, agree with most, if not all, your points.. I got Nissan LEAF 2017 as my first EV. Great car to drive around, comfy seats... Then I realized I needed more than 100-miles of range... Realized that Nissan was not coming out with any decent range cars in 2020, so I upgraded to Kia Niro EV 2019 instead... still got that and it's been great to drive, much less range anxiety and better tech... wish the seats were as comfy as LEAF's seats though. Alas... Nissan really dropped the ball on Ariya... mainly its charging speed and aero...
Why expect good aero from a lifted hatchback? The two are not compatible like current ev trucks. Get a sleek sedan if you want better efficiency and less charging stops.
What's with the charging speed on the Ariya? Is 35 minutes to 80% a failure now? Lord
Kyle! You mentioned that you believe that a rear wheel drive is better in the snow than a front wheel drive car. It has always been my belief/myth that the only way to navigate the Northeast winter was either all wheel drive or front wheel drive. I’m intrigued. What is the science/physics of a rear wheel vs front wheel. My belief in this has prevented me from buying any ev that did not have front wheel drive. Maybe now I can consider those vehicles based on your answer. Thanks for fielding my questions.
I agree! I've always heard and believed that FWD is better than RWD in snow. I'd love to hear more about this too as it goes counter to what I've heard elsewhere.
While I have yet to actually drive and readiest an Ayria, I do agree with your thoughts on Nissan and how they have really blown a good thing. I too was disappointed in Leaf 2.0 and not "modernizing" these with active battery thermal management and CCS charger port. And look, I owned a 2018 Nissan Leaf SL and absolutely loved it! It caused me zero issues in the 2.5 years / 45,000 kms I owned and drove it. My family loved it too! However, I learned the first winter I had it that road tripping would be an issue. My real work job in IT Sales means I have clients in various parts of Ontario, mainly southern Ontario. So I need to go to Windsor, Ottawa and sometime Sudbury from the GTA. The first winter trip to Windsor was quite the ordeal in charging times and number of stops. Basically doubled the amount of time I would normally need in an ICEV to do the trip. I'm fine with some sacrifices for the sake of zero-emissions and cost savings, however that was just too much.
I eventually traded it for a Model 3 LR and it's a 180 experience with Tesla.
Now, saying all this, do I recommend and support the Leaf? Absolutely I do - for the right needs and conditions. All the things you mentioned Kyle are correct and for a commuter or shorter trips BEV, it is really good, affordable and drives very nice.
Regarding Nissan in general, I too have been saying a similar message and am disappointed in the lack of EV efforts. I agree, they really could have been a leader. But alas, it is not to be.
I've watched several reviews of the Aryia and it is a good BEV, but I hear many of the same issue that you bring up. I know I will enjoy having some time to drive one for a bit and I will give it a recommendation as a good BEV to purchase for sure. However, these limitations and quirks you list are things that really Nissan should know about and have not put them into this vehicle. Especially with so much competition, which continues to grow, as this CUV/SUV space is the hottest in at least North America. The pricing should be lower for what you get and I think this is going to hurt Nissan overall. We will see.
Good points and thoughts you bring up Kyle as always and hoping one of these days, we can meet up again to collaborate or at least have a good chat about this industry!
Keep up the great work sir!
Yay 2 of my favs on UA-cam!!!
I think EVs stopped being a priority once Ghosn was no longer the CEO (and subsequently smuggled himself out of Japan), and when the EV market started to pick up steam, Nissan found itself with a gutted EV division. Now they're finding themselves in the position of having to catch up to the point they had previously been at.
Objectively speaking, the charging standard in America is the North American Charging Standard (NACS).
NACS is the most common charging standard in North America: NACS vehicles outnumber CCS two-to-one, and Tesla’s Supercharging network has 60% more NACS posts than all the CCS-equipped networks combined.
Is Kyle that uninformed?
Is it the Japanese culture of not wanting to criticise superiors, not wanting to point out past mistakes? Great doing this in seemingly one take! CCS retrofit for old Leafs, genius. Could even profit slightly on it.
Might be. Or might be the 21st-century corporate culture of outrageous profit-taking by company leaders, leaving too little for research and development. A whole line of products akin to “abandonware.”
It will be interesting to see how many of these they sell. It’s a pretty good looking vehicle but with dealer markups, lack of tax credit when financing, slower charging than the competition, and bad efficiency, there doesn’t seem to be a compelling reason to buy this over ID4 or Model Y (especially with even more price drops today).
I’m disappointed in the relatively weak charging of the Aryia given Nissans EV experience. Hyundai and Kia did it far better with the E-GMP platform despite their lower experience level with EVs.
Weak charging? Charges the same amount of energy on the same time as a Model Y to circa 90%, so Tesla has weak charging by that metric too? Ok...
I wouldn't dispute that CCS has won the connector battle in the US but what I will say is that i've never had a problem with CHAdeMO equipment working correctly with my Soul EV while everyone else around me can't seem to consistently use CCS equipment to save their life. Nissan is clearly using the more reliable standard on the leaf. It's also not a very accurate blanket statement that they're ripping CHAdeMO chargers out everywhere. They're installing them everywhere at least in the southeast in order to get government funding for the installations.
CHAdeMO was always the better standard but EU now mandates CCS Combo and US the same for NACS so now that Nissan nows the 3rd gen Leaf will come with those connectors and CHAdeMO will remain for Asia only.
I agree 100%, the Ariya is priced totally wrong, that is why I quickly ruled it out of any possibility of purchasing it or even recommending it to anyone. And yes who they refer to as Carlos Goan (yes, not pronounced properly, actually it is Ghosn, which means tree branch in arabic), did no service to the company at all financially speaking
I agree Nisan need to do a retrofit CCS for the leaf .
Not even just retrofret a CCS but also design future Leaf's with CCS out of the box.
That would be nice, at least 3rd gen Leaf comes without CHAdeMO out of the box.
I would image this video is oddly personal to a lot of LEAF owners. I bought our (2) 2018 LEAF SL's in early 2020 just after dealers reopened to the public. They both had about 10k miles on them and the combined price was substantially less than a model Y. Initially, it seemed like a brilliant decision as we traveled around the southeast using deserted EA and old EVGO sites. It felt like we belonged to a secret society who's members agreed to never meet. Fast forward to 2023 and things have changed rather drastically. I think back with fond memories of a desolate CPE-250, with it's warm green glow wicking through an early morning mist announcing "welcome friend, I am available". There's no more green.. only blue. The single Chademo EA's are all broken or taken by an ID4 charing to 150%. 50kw EVGOs are now an additional parking space. I absolutely agree with Kyle's plea to Nissan to offer a CCS retrofit. It really is the only thing that will keep our LEAFs viable in the years to come. That is especially true now with the Tesla magic dock coming online. Yes the passive cooling is an issue, but a complete inability to fast charge is devastating.
I own a 2020 Leaf S Plus. I bought it used a year ago. Ive been seriously considering selling it for the last few months. It's missing some of the features of my 2016 Soul EV. I think it could be more efficient but it has taken me around 8000 miles really without issue. Except for a cell that malfunctioned in the first 30 days, it has performed ok. Thanks for sharing your opinion!
Oh and luckily I have no issue locatimg or using CHADEMOs for both my cars here in Central Texas.
Nissan needs to offer Leaf owners fantastic trade-in deals in order to move the Ariya.
You need to do a rant video regarding the Bolt EV and the EUV. It's even more confounding. Edit: yes, the Bolt from a price stand point is great. I'm talking now about the fact that there really really really isn't much to justify having 2 Bolts based on current specs
Your presentation is fantastic, no rapid gating to be seen. I hope the heater in the Ariya is ready to warm you up.
I appeciate your critique of the Ariya! I did however just lease one 😆 I got an Engage e4orce with the smaller battery
I had to trade a 2020 Ioniq electric with 60,000 miles and had to dump that puppy quick!
Soooo, some things you didn't mention. The car is super comfortable, the interior is detailed nicely,and some of us still like some creature comfort buttons. The software does suck, I should not have to try that hard to warm my ass this winter in Boston! Also you have to learn how to stop the car smoothly, she's a jumper 🫤It's only been a month and by Dec 2023 , there were good lease incentives, through Nissan, plus a $3,500 MA state rebate. Anyone agree it's not a total loser ? In 3 years I can drop it off and get something else
I absolutely love my 2018 Leaf. In two years of owning it, I have never needed fast charging. Still waiting for an equality amazing car that can be used for road trips.
You may be waiting a while, but hopefully the next Tesla will be a hatchback.
A harsh but necessary criticism. Nissan has to learn.
I had such high hope for Ariya for the last 5 years; holding out between Model Y and Ioniq 5. After hearing Kyle compared the specs, I'm holding back until 2024 EV models to comes out and keeping my Honda Citify PHEV for the rest of 2023.
Wait a few years and get more use out of your plug in.
Kyle very detailed info. Very good education for future EV buyers that will help them understand electrification.
I agree with a lot of what you said. Tesla model Y has a very high efficiency using the MPGe figure of merit. Tesla has state of the art technology, especially with production using giga, castings and a lot of vertical integration. With the price cut and tax credits, the model Y is selling like there’s no tomorrow. I finally drove one last fall and was shocked.: it rode like a brick. Like a 1970 MGB. Plus the ground clearance was ho-hum. Air suspension would clean both of those issues up. Car and driver also criticized the Tesla model Y. They liked the Tesla model 3. But when Tesla evolved, the model 3 into the model Y they said it lost a lot. In fact, when they compared it to similar electric vehicles, they ranked it ninth not first. I have a 2015 BMW 328D sport wagon rides pretty nice. I liked driving the Ariya because of the higher driving position, comfort and quietness. Car and driver rated the BMW iX number one, but that’s too expensive for me. So I don’t know which EV I’m going to get now.
Having purchased one of the first gen Nissan Leaf and suffered through all the shenanigans and blatant disregard (deceit and lies) of Nissan, I have ZERO sympathy for Nissan. They did this to themselves. Ariya will be a failure for all the reasons you mentioned and the KARMA that Nissan built for itself. The only thing that might save them is to come clean and do good by all the early adopters, but that would cost them $$$ and there's too many execs that would have to forgo their bonuses.. Thank you for not holding back and honestly ripping Nissan as they deserve, you went easy on them. I would have not been as nice as you.... Would love to have someone do a mod for Chademo to CCS, and a better battery, but it would be expensive... not worth it.
Why did it take Nissan so long and why has it taken GM so long after making the Volt/Bolt? I like the looks and specs of the Ariya, it’s just too expensive. They seem to have made this with the EV tax credits in mind and then didn’t adjust when they lost them.
Do you have a video explaining why in electric vehicles rear wheel drive is the safer option, when so many people have been taught their whole lives that front wheel drive was safer before ?
Great question. I’d like to know too.
Front wheel drive even on EVs are still safer to drive on extreme and edge conditions and incidents, physics hasn't changed in this world.
With the Model Y being priced as it is now, I don't see why anyone would purchase any other EV SUV (not including Bolt EUV). The only fair reason I could see is if you just don't like the look of the Model Y, but other than that you're just wasting money in the long run for inferior products.
That's the objective truth. Model Y will be the best selling car in the world this year for a reason. It's in a different league.
Kyle that for the honesty and not worrying about what the manufacturer things about your reviews.
Kyle... sunny=hoodie rainy=hoodie snow=hoodie zombie apocalypse =hoodie
I was feeling cold just watching you! Great video.
I think the charging is decent, especially after dealing with a Bolt, but if we're trying to convert gas owners to switch to EVs, 130kW peak isn't going to go over well.
so a constent 135kw deep into the pack before it starts to taper is bad its great on a etron but bad here
To be competitive, they'd have to drop the price by $15-20k, which means losing a ton of money. What's their next move?
This is why all the japanese makers are hosed. There is no way they can beat tesla margins. Also they will have dwindling amounts of cash as they sell fewer ice cars
@@TeslaRoadtrips Exactly. Everyone keeps talking about the competition, but the hardest times are still ahead of them. No one but the government will finance them through the valley of death.
Kyle…tell us you are disappointed with Nissan without telling us…well, you did.
Even if you are on the right track, you still get run over if you just sit there….The old saying applies to Nissan in this case. I was hoping that this would be a great car, but it’s very disappointing. It is a great looking car, but the range, charging speeds and software all leave something to be desired.
We own a Mache GT, and it has its limitations, but one thing that I think Ford got right, with both the Lightning and Mache, was the driver experience is very much like driving a ice car, but only faster.
Hopefully Nissan can do some software updates and improve the experience.
Brutal, but honesr!...have to laugh at the markups too.
Actually, the LEAF wasn't the first mass-produced EV. The i-MiEV came to market 9 months earlier. To be honest, I like the look of the original LEAF better (but I'm biased, having owned a 2012 model). I'd much rather have that style if only it had sufficient range for 250+ mile roadtrips, a TMS, and a CCS1 receptacle. Also… at least the LEAF has one-pedal driving, something that the Ariya lacks -most unfortunately. I do agree with you, nonetheless, that Nissan really dropped the ball: they could be the EV frontrunner instead of Tesla if they'd simply kept current with emerging features. Tsk.
It may have technically qualified as "mass produced" but your more likely to see a $3M Bugatti Chiron on the road.
@@leetjohnson Sorry, it certainly was mass produced, not only as the Mitsubishi i-MiEV, but also as the Peugeot iOn and the Citroën C-Zero in Europe. Ah, but since YOU have never seen or heard of one… that's what matters, huh? I guess I was imagining things when I test drove two of them, once in Sacramento and again in Los Angeles. Robert Llewellyn must have also been imagining things with his first EV on Fully Charged: ua-cam.com/video/bMtNkB8iFyI/v-deo.html
@@Josh-179 Ah, well, you must know best. 50,000 were sold worldwide, but only 1,800 in the USA. The Bugattii Chiron, on the other hand, tallies 400 built so far out of 500 planned. Whoops.
@@leetjohnson True, but unlike the i-MiEV and LEAF, the EV1 was never sold, only leased, and then GM gathered them up and crushed them. Most unfortunately. Otherwise, I would have bought one in a heartbeat.
@@leetjohnson Huh. Just an aficionado, not an "authority," but I apparently do more know a bit more of the history than those Motortrend authors -and you, who can Gtfoh yourself, troll.
If the top spec car cost what the entry level car cost then we would have something? LOL
No one has that much equipment for $43k.
If I could get a Tesla Plaid with FSD for the base price then we would have something?
Nissan dropped the ball for years, was a proud Nissan Altima Hybrid owner till Nissan refused to address hybrid recall issues for Altima Hybrids using Toyota hybrid system.
I bought Tesla MY and will never go back to a Nissan.
Great points made!
Great video. Let's get that onboard vehicle charger repaired on the Nissan LEAF!!!
Ironically the charging port on the right side is a match with current Tesla Superchargers layout! Should be compatible spacewise!
It is indeed
I contacted nissan about offering a ccs upgrade for my leaf and I was told that they are "encouraging" (paying) chargepoint, evgo, and EA have at least one chademo connector on each site. Therfore they would not be offering a ccs upgrade for the leaf
They have completely given up on the Leaf I doubt that they'll ever include CCS on the Leaf.
@jeffpro18 well no...rumor had it 2025 will be the end of the LEAF which is a shame because now that the bolt is discontinued the LEAF is the last affordable EV on the market
False, 3rd gen Leaf is launching next year on Europe, all new platform, with new powertrain, active battery cooling and CCS. Yeah, super dead.
Are the inductions motors part of the efficiency issue?
Q: Are the inductions motors part of the efficiency issue? A: it's possible but less likely in the basic sense considering a major part of the Tesla "claim to fame" centers around the use of Induction motors. of course the motors themselves are only a "piece" (or is that dual piece...?) of the electric drive equation.
No, the efficiency "issue" is that the Ariya isn't the most aerodynamic EV out there and it suffers when driving at high speeds, I drive mine at 55mph most of the time and I'm getting around 330 miles without effort, pretty efficient powertrain.
I am at my second Leaf, I had a 2014, and now a 2018. Very good car, but no good for road trips. I cannot understand they remove the "E-PEDAL" on the ARIYA
Nissan said for safety reasons, some people has had accidents with it due to getting overconfident with it, like arriving to a traffic light in red and taking your phone in advance meanwhile the e-Pedal is getting the car to a stop and run over a pedestrian in the process. So Nissan thought that if the e-Pedal system forced the driver to manually stop the car at the very last part of reducing speed (from 5mph to 0) then that situation will be significantly reduced among others.
@@Cosmycal I dont understand how the e-pedal taking the car to a stop can lead to hitting a pedestrian ?? Anyway, all the other electric car have an e-pedal, and i feel more insecure when i forget to engage it
I was also hopeful for the Ariya until the pricing was announced - we ended up getting a Model 3 RWD and love it. In addition to their financial straits, I think Nissan fell into the trap that all Japanese car makers seem to have fallen for: Believing that hydrogen fuel cells would be a viable alternative to EVs, so they underinvested and are now just pivoting to try and catch up. I hope it's not too late for them.
Great video, have owned 3 leaf's currently have two a 2013 with the 24 kWh battery and a 2016 with a 30kWh battery. We love our little Leaf's but but but, they are an around town car. I can not ever see myself purchasing another electric Nissan. Why well it's the battery and CHAdeMO, I feel Nissan has left Leaf owners "high and dry" Fool me once............
Nissan appears to be overlooking the resources that its dealerships could provide. We recently bought a 2020 Leaf at CarMax. We tried to work with three different Nissan dealers in our region, but they all kept trying to redirect us to vehicles we didn’t want, and they didn’t seem inclined to pay attention to what we said our needs were. The whole company should be working harder to understand and meet customer needs and preferences.
I think you missed that their largest investor is Toyota. We all know where they stand on electrification.
actually, the first 2 years 2011-12 nissan leafs are plagued with electrical failures, such as ptc heater, electronic brake and parking brake system, and especially the on-board charger. if you have these models with the early versions of the on-board charger, i WILL fail.
63 grand, geez. These legacy automakers have an inflated sense of worth. Get over yourselves and compete. Also, there are way too many options in the expensive crossover space. How thin of a pie slice do you want?
Nissan was known for big discounts off MSRP before the market went nuts.
Wait them out.
Well honest review is all we care about (and that it is not a German car, so it has a pro anyway)
Right on with your review. Nissan has been a puzzle, nearly went bankrupt. There were quality control issues with their ICE vehicles. Electric vehicles were not their focus. Probably only few people working in the EV department. Perpetually will be an under performer. I always wanted a Z car, a pretty decent sports car that is moderately priced
Really appreciate this review. Thanks for giving us the straight dope Kyle.
I have a stupid, irrelevant question. Is he getting wet? The asphalt looks wet, but he doesn't and the roofs and the ground in the background don't. Or is the snow just melting fast on the asphalt because the asphalt is holding heat?
0:10 - It really depends on your definition of "mass produced"… Even if you're only counting "late '00s Lithium Ion highway-capable, not niche rich person toy", the Mitsubishi i-MiEV beat the Leaf by a year. Obviously the original Tesla Roadster beat it by a few years. The late '90s EV1, first-gen RAV4 EV, Ford Ranger EV, Chevy S-10 EV and a few others were also, for some definitions, "mass produced." Then there are the waaaay-old late 1800s/early 1900s EVs that were even the *majority* of automobiles produced until gasoline finally took off in the 1910s/1920s.
The Leaf certainly is the "highest production early Lithium Ion EV", though.
love your knowledge
Ariya has common platform with Megane E-TECH, so a successor of Leaf and Renault Zoe.
Good to know.
Corruption is deadly to an organization. Nissan with Carlos Ghosn. Yes, Nissan ran out of money. It shows in most of their vehicles. They have some wins, and some positive attributes, but net net they’re not great cars.
The Saturn EV1 was first.
Not mass produced or something you could buy.
If the Leaf had the ccs port and active battery management i probably would have gotten that rather than the chevy bolt
The 3rd gen Leaf next year will
I want someone to love me as much as Kyle loves his hoodies. Man, i get cold just seeing your thumbnail!
Review the new Prius prime
It's at least better than the Toyota bz4X right?