I am not a fan of Lua but i do like the way that Defold does things in Lua, which seems to be quite different than most lua projects. Defold is more of a game engine though, not a framework.
Ok... those Nokia windows phones were the absolute bomb and they should have easily competed with Android and iOS. Just like the Zune was 10x better than the iPod of the day. These are two Microsoft tech failures that hurt to this day!
@@gamefromscratchThey really do, because making something multi-platform that'll target Xbox but also target an iOS phone is pretty rough even to this day.
A note about Phaser, there is an editor for it called Phaser Editor that is fantastic. I'm pretty sure it is a one man dev team that is unaffiliated with Phaser. It is a commercial product, but it is definitely worth looking into.
I was just checking it yesterday. Phaser is kinda complicated to get set up for beginners, and this editor is a life saver. And it costs like 2 dollars a month
@@95mcqueen5 Yeah, it's great. I'm using it professionally as we speak. There are a bunch of "gotchas" for devs coming from other engines. I have a list of helpful tips I have been maintaining for a while. Some of these are lifesavers. docs.google.com/document/d/1a6nTFRyg_GY5McOxkV79g7mPzbjQpGSoyTFPsSEafkw/edit?usp=sharing
@@95mcqueen5 Yeah, it's great. I have a curated list of helpful tips for Unity devs switching to phaser. I hope this is useful to someone. docs.google.com/document/d/1a6nTFRyg_GY5McOxkV79g7mPzbjQpGSoyTFPsSEafkw/edit?usp=sharing
Massive vouch for LÖVE, very mature, very easy to use. Don't let Lua fool you, while it is simple to use, there are a lot of features that allow you to shape it how you want as long as you're willing to learn the mechanics. Bevy is also great, although as stated in the not-so-fine print, it is already more than capable of full games (and its ECS allows you to add any feature to it, if someone hasn't made a library already), but it might not be best-suited for your next big project right now due to ongoing heavy development, refactoring, etc.
Big fan of LÖVE here, first picked it up when I got a little handheld console (Clockwork Pi), and it was lovely to use. Once I'd wrapped my head around meta-tables/methods, I loved working with Lua!
Yeah, LÖVE (as they say on their website) is awesome... though the only time I've ever used it beyond doing a few tutorials was in the LÖVE Game Jam 2022. That was a trial-by-fire, but as a PHP web dev I really appreciated the simple code-only approach after a couple of years using Godot and GameMaker. I was really pleased with what I did in the end, even though it was basically a glorified clicker game god-sim with a nice interface but hardly any animation. So I hold LÖVE dear to my heart, even if I've never used it again... yet.
Is it fast and is it flexible to port? Explanations would be appreciated. Btw my first language is Lua but I never try LÖVE due to, _I assume,_ you have to build everything by yourself.
@@ultimaxkom8728 I'm not sure what you mean about porting, in any engine it would mean you will have to adapt all logic into the new system. Performance is unlikely to be a concern, as LÖVE uses LuaJIT which, as the name suggests, uses a Just-In-Time compiler, which compiles your Lua code into native code to be executed directly by the processor. I think to address your last concern I should explain what frameworks like LÖVE really include. Basically, they manage a lot of boilerplate and provide you with functionality to load assets, draw things, play sounds, etc. but there is not much that is *opinionated*. What this means is that you have both the opportunity and the duty to choose how you want for example rendering to work. You don't say "add a sprite in this position in some game world" with the engine rendering it every frame; rather, every frame, you say "render this sprite in this position". Of course, there are built-in physics libraries and community-made UI, state machine and other libraries so you don't have to do everything yourself, but they are all just modules that you can optionally use, and often provide their functionality in complete isolation from everything else. (btw this is why I call Bevy as a whole an engine, it's very opinionated with entity hierarchy systems and UI frameworks and PBR pipelines and what not)
Phaser is super cool and versatile, already made a lil bit in it but yeah, less time to make more. I even supported the dev buying their Phaser Editor, which is a nice addition! My definitely favourite of this list too!
It may be clean but Factorio developers hate it with passion xD If you are interested why - google something like "Factorio Alegro" or "Factorio changing engine".
Great selection, some I never even heard of. The only one I didn't hear you announce was "Pygame" for Python. It is a Framework for making 2D games using the Python programming language.
4:50 Not only Celeste but Stardew Valley was also created in MonoGame (initially in XNA, later Eric, the creator of Stardew Valley, switched to MonoGame).
10:10 you can already have inspectors in bevy using plugins and i think they said, "it shouldnt have an ui by default" or something like that bevy engine is my favorite tbh i used to be really into unity dots but since migrated to bevy engine bevy is defiantly the best choose if you are into DOP and dont wanna worry about licencing stuff its really easy to learn, even thought it was my first rust project, i was able to get the hang of it in 24 hours, really cool it has everything i need EDIT: Ok, my bad the quote was "It needs to have an (optional) graphical editor. Scene creation is a large part of game development and in many cases visual editors beat code." i remembered it wrong
There is a lot of discusion about what the editor should be. However, the ui is already in place, though is currently being upgraded to be better. The, "it shouldnt have an ui by default", quote isn't right, the closest I've seen is a short comment thread where some people say that it shouldn't have an editor by default, which I agree with. It has alwas been a pick and chose engine and that should include the editor.
I'm really interested to see what that editor looks like: I'm really hoping they *don't* try to squeeze the ECS system into a Unity/Unreal/Godot/everything else style object tree and property panel.
Glad ORX is part of this great selection with plenty good choices for everyone. ORX is a powerful and mature game engine, and its full data-driven approach is really something to check ioo.
I want to mention Irrlicht since it is comparable to Ogre. I used it for Ludum Dare recently and it was a great library to work with. Don't let the terrible screenshots on its website fool you, its capable of a lot.
KorGE's creator came back recently, so that one is still my favorite for Java/Kotlin (vastly prefer it over LibGDX, especially for multi-platform app/web) It still only mainly supports 2D though, with 3D being experimental and kind of rudimentary. For all other stuff 2D/3D I'm sticking with Godot, although I'm still not a huge fan of the node based approach all engines recommend. I just want a render-loop and write code.
@@brodriguez11000 Like Super Mario Maker or the Hypixel Minecraft server? But my dream game does have an unlockable pseudoscriptung language that should be able to make games. One of several ways I plan to have user-generated content.
RPG Maker 2003 to VX Ace used Ruby. It got me aware of the concept of ‘programming languages’ and I remember asking my uncle when I was like, 12 what he knew about it. Now he was old then and old now but he never heard of Ruby 😂. He was a C++ business guy. Now, I am interested in seeing where Dragon Toolkit goes, but personally, I might build my own engine off one of these frameworks. I got that free book bundle you advertised (thanks btw) which had the Math book, Blender and Godot book and I should tear it up this week. My website is being made with Ruby, so it is the most comfortable. (Looking at Raylib w/Nim wrappers or maybe a Haxe base…) Also, surprisingly there is no Nim ‘Frameworks’? I guess the Raylib binding goes 😂. Part of me thinks that it is because Nim is less popular then Rust and C++ and another is that Nim is apparently used for pentesters and security folk. Who knows, maybe I will be the first ;)
I didn't even know that XNA was dead. One of the two game tools we used in college. We had one course on XNA and another on creating scenes/levels with Unreal Engine (whichever version was based on Unreal Tournament 3)
TBH I'd really like to see a "Your first game" type of video/stream using LÖVE, just because I think it would be a pretty relaxed video to watch and make.
Great news then... gamefromscratch.com/gamedev-for-complete-beginners-tutorial-series/ At some point I'm going to hit a point where I've done a video on everything gamedev related, aren't I? ;)
Love Is nice, muy only problem with lua is that it's so flexible every library has a different class system and using multiple users libraries is a mess unless you basically adapt them to your game. But the framework itself is nice
I've used d3js for making gamejam games. It's a data driven visualization library. So a data-drive game libraries like ORX and Bevy sound really interesting.
Ah, Allegro. Before SDL was a thing, a lot of projects both good and bad, large and small had devs that cut their teeth with Allegro. IIRC some of the more involved devs of the open-source Sphere Game Engine helped Allegro bugfix some of the v5 stuff early on after we moved back to using Allegro from separate I/O libraries for convenience. Having separate bespoke open-source libraries for I/O was...interesting.
Hi there , Recently I've been spending time with unreal engine, but speaking about game in general, I've heard much less on their backend side of things. Could you make a general video on that as well? I'm also personally continuing my research on this area as well.
Don't hate Lua, the Lua in Minecraft's Computercraft mod is what made me realise I love programming. (Given the GW2 dev who helped learn it should probably get some of the credit too ❤)
pixie is really incredible...have to vouch for it - they made updates to it that made it A LOT faster few months ago (v8 version), and the API is very good and intuitive - i honestly love it...its the perfect level of abstraction for 2D rendering lib - no need to worry about webgl/webgpu syntax, but if you want, you can go very deep with it, implement your own shaders VERY easily - they are also pushing for webgpu (which uses the same rendering pipeline in v8 actually - webgl is basically a fallback, as canvas was before), which is exciting
Hello there developers, I have a quick question for anything favor with Monogame or FNA. What are the differences of those two frameworks, what are the advantages and disadvantages, and most importantly why should I use either one? I’m asking because finding info on FNA and Monogame from outside sources has been hard, and I would like to get some information about the frameworks before choosing one. Of course if I end up not liking the one I pick, then I’ll definitely check out the other option. Thank you for reading this, and if you leave any good feedback then thank you even more!
Why do editors in game engines looks so intimidating to me? I know the GUI is made for simplicity but for me it looks unnecessarily complex to use and yet when I'm tasked to make a simple game using notepad++ with barebones JavaScript I aced it easily for some reason. Is it due to familiarity or because I'm afraid that the code looks too simple to be true due to the high level abstractions making me uneasy how it actually works inside the blackbox. Guy's what do you think, should I just switch to a framework instead?
Editors are useful mainly to create levels and serialize data for them. If you have a workflow for code, like procedural generation, then editor is not that much needed.
@@NeZversSounds all I know is that I can't focus when their is too many user interfaces, I can barely use Blender despite knowing it for almost a decade and yet when I use Mine Imator which is an animation software that is incredibly barebones and I can model and animate anything on it
100% @NezversSounds. For some games, like as you said procedural generated ones, the editor and the level/scene workflow they force upon you can be a massive pain in the butt. In these cases a framework can often be a much better choice.
@adamdee9671 Could be, I really don't remember. It's was back around 2010 I think... Either way, I've made other games on Java as well, even back on VB4. LOL But mostly card games, memory, stuff like that. But I never published anything... And I should. I believe I still should have good part of them... Perhaps I create a blog, who knows. Should be interesting.
Fun thing about Alegro - developers of Factorio said that it's basically unusable for them (and they switched to SDL 2). So if you want to try it - just keep that fact in mind ;-)
Thanks a lot! I came from programming and I feel really uncomfortable with a lot of the WYSIWYG editors in most game engines. I want something that abstracts away the raw GPU draw calls but I don't want to try to use someone else's implementation of something doing what I want to slightly differently.
Anything for functional programming? I want to use something with a functional reactive architecture like TEA from Elm and a pure functional language like haskell/PureScript
ahhh allegro.. the "functions'n'structs" libraries are timeless classics.. although SDL is waaay better supported now as it's the core of Unreal, Godot, Unity etc
Why include engines that are on alpha versions in a video called "The Best Game Development Frameworks"? For example, Bevy is still under heavy construction, every release has breaking changes. It's completely fine to use it as a way to learn Rust and have fun working with these low-level frameworks, but you should not use it expecting to finish a game. If you absolutely want to use Rust to finish a game then there are other, more stable, frameworks (such as macroquad, fyrox). I believe it would be Best to include Bevy in a "promissing game engines"; "Best" should be reserved for battle tested engines that have actual finished games attached to them.
You should always abstract your game logic from whatever you're using, always remember that, if you gotta port to something else later you can do that.
Same, it's what got me really deep into programming in general. My first language at university was Java so it was a natural step. That was so many years ago though, I just feel like I want to tinker with it again.
Nice video, but I'm trying to stay out of that rabbit hole,. Although I did just watch a raylib tutorial, that was kinda interesting.🤔 Damn it, I'll probably end up tinkering with raylib now. Grrrr. 😂
How can you mention TheForge and bgfx and not at least name drop DiligentEngine. It is the best C++ HAL as it takes away the pain to write Vulkan / Dx12 code while still retaining a similar API (much more simplified). Its beautifully simple. Dont want to deal with synchronization? No problem, the library can do it! Dont want to deal with descriptor sets? No problem, the library got you covered! Wanna write actual HLSL and run it everywhere? Of course. But you are not forced to. You can pick the abstractions you want. And it has perfect tutorials, something that cannot he said about the Forge.
Ok, serious question - since when did we settle on definition that "proper" engine has to come with a built-in editor and toolchain? Are Quake and Doom engines not "real engines"? It feels to me like we bought to marketing of the big two "engines" a bit too much
It's an artificial construct I adhered to to make the video work. As said in the video, the line is grey and blurry and highly arbitrary. But there is no better way to describe "a collection of game development libraries without an editor, but with more functionality than a general purpose or single purpose library, but with less tooling than a large game engine", so "framework" it is.
- GFS, great video & info ... Again !! 👍 - I´ve just added " SFML " to your list. - Has modules for: system, window, graphics, audio and network. - Was amazing working with that framework! - NOTE: I have NO ideia if the project is still alive ( or not ) since I´m not using it since many years ago - I´ve been working only with GODOT - but I remember to try ( almost everything ) that existed at that time, and this was the most complete and easiest framework at those times. - No idea how it is that fantastic project in our current days ... ( EDIT: I´ve just checked the project, its in Github now, and have changes uploaded just hours ago ... GREAT !!!! )
I wouldn't say great. It's very confused on the C# side due to having two entirely separate projects for bindings, each implementing some things the other don't. And you can't use them both. And very few of the extensions (raygui, raudio, etc) have bindings so if you want to use them you have to build your own bindings which is way out of scope for most people.
Links
gamefromscratch.com/the-best-game-development-frameworks/
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PureBasic, FreeBasic (and other basics with immediate drawing)
I am not a fan of Lua but i do like the way that Defold does things in Lua, which seems to be quite different than most lua projects. Defold is more of a game engine though, not a framework.
C / C++
0:47 SDL
1:16 SFML
1:42 Allegro
2:11 raylib
2:57 Cocos2d-x
3:35 Orx
18:25 bgfx
18:57 Ogre
20:06 The Forge
C#
4:19 MonoGame
5:27 FNA
JavaScript / HTML5
6:16 Phaser
7:09 PixiJS
7:47 Babylon.js
8:20 PlayCanvas
9:06 Three.js
Rust
9:51 Bevy
11:12 Fyrox
Ruby
11:37 DragonRuby
Lua
12:35 LÖVE
13:40 Gideros
14:03 Solar2D
Java
14:40 libGDX
Haxe
15:56 Shiro Games Technology Stack
17:04 HaxeFlixel
17:35 Kha
Excellent timestamping deserving of greater recognition.
Thank you for this timestamp!
Java have LWJGL, but its a library not framework
Heheh you fixed his oversight, Kha is haxe and he accidentally included it in the category after, C++ 3D. It's low level 3D and 2D, GPU based.
Thank you.
XNA was legendary. It sparked a whole class of new indie devs.
This brings me back to college days when we all thought windows phone was the next big thing, and that it would kill android and iOS.
Ok... those Nokia windows phones were the absolute bomb and they should have easily competed with Android and iOS. Just like the Zune was 10x better than the iPod of the day.
These are two Microsoft tech failures that hurt to this day!
@@gamefromscratch Don't forget Bing! (heh. heh.)
@@gamefromscratchThey really do, because making something multi-platform that'll target Xbox but also target an iOS phone is pretty rough even to this day.
Did you know Ray used XNA as a guide to making raylib.
A note about Phaser, there is an editor for it called Phaser Editor that is fantastic. I'm pretty sure it is a one man dev team that is unaffiliated with Phaser. It is a commercial product, but it is definitely worth looking into.
It is a one man project last I checked. It's a great little editor that does all kinds of stuff. Awesome (and inexpensive) product.
I was just checking it yesterday. Phaser is kinda complicated to get set up for beginners, and this editor is a life saver. And it costs like 2 dollars a month
@@95mcqueen5 Yeah, it's great. I'm using it professionally as we speak. There are a bunch of "gotchas" for devs coming from other engines. I have a list of helpful tips I have been maintaining for a while. Some of these are lifesavers. docs.google.com/document/d/1a6nTFRyg_GY5McOxkV79g7mPzbjQpGSoyTFPsSEafkw/edit?usp=sharing
@@95mcqueen5 Yeah, it's great. I have a curated list of helpful tips for Unity devs switching to phaser. I hope this is useful to someone. docs.google.com/document/d/1a6nTFRyg_GY5McOxkV79g7mPzbjQpGSoyTFPsSEafkw/edit?usp=sharing
No longer a on man dev. Main dev joined the phaser team
Massive vouch for LÖVE, very mature, very easy to use. Don't let Lua fool you, while it is simple to use, there are a lot of features that allow you to shape it how you want as long as you're willing to learn the mechanics.
Bevy is also great, although as stated in the not-so-fine print, it is already more than capable of full games (and its ECS allows you to add any feature to it, if someone hasn't made a library already), but it might not be best-suited for your next big project right now due to ongoing heavy development, refactoring, etc.
Big fan of LÖVE here, first picked it up when I got a little handheld console (Clockwork Pi), and it was lovely to use. Once I'd wrapped my head around meta-tables/methods, I loved working with Lua!
Yeah, LÖVE (as they say on their website) is awesome... though the only time I've ever used it beyond doing a few tutorials was in the LÖVE Game Jam 2022. That was a trial-by-fire, but as a PHP web dev I really appreciated the simple code-only approach after a couple of years using Godot and GameMaker. I was really pleased with what I did in the end, even though it was basically a glorified clicker game god-sim with a nice interface but hardly any animation. So I hold LÖVE dear to my heart, even if I've never used it again... yet.
Is it fast and is it flexible to port? Explanations would be appreciated. Btw my first language is Lua but I never try LÖVE due to, _I assume,_ you have to build everything by yourself.
@@ultimaxkom8728 I'm not sure what you mean about porting, in any engine it would mean you will have to adapt all logic into the new system.
Performance is unlikely to be a concern, as LÖVE uses LuaJIT which, as the name suggests, uses a Just-In-Time compiler, which compiles your Lua code into native code to be executed directly by the processor.
I think to address your last concern I should explain what frameworks like LÖVE really include. Basically, they manage a lot of boilerplate and provide you with functionality to load assets, draw things, play sounds, etc. but there is not much that is *opinionated*. What this means is that you have both the opportunity and the duty to choose how you want for example rendering to work. You don't say "add a sprite in this position in some game world" with the engine rendering it every frame; rather, every frame, you say "render this sprite in this position". Of course, there are built-in physics libraries and community-made UI, state machine and other libraries so you don't have to do everything yourself, but they are all just modules that you can optionally use, and often provide their functionality in complete isolation from everything else.
(btw this is why I call Bevy as a whole an engine, it's very opinionated with entity hierarchy systems and UI frameworks and PBR pipelines and what not)
@@ultimaxkom8728 I never used LÖVE, but if you used Tiled, can't you export to Lua? You'd at least have that covered.
Phaser is super cool and versatile, already made a lil bit in it but yeah, less time to make more. I even supported the dev buying their Phaser Editor, which is a nice addition! My definitely favourite of this list too!
Out of C frameworks, personally I had the best experience when using Allegro 5 - the API just seems so clean.
It may be clean but Factorio developers hate it with passion xD
If you are interested why - google something like "Factorio Alegro" or "Factorio changing engine".
Have moved back to MonoGame after the whole Unity debacle. Been having a lot of fun working with XNA again after not using it for a decade.
Great selection, some I never even heard of. The only one I didn't hear you announce was "Pygame" for Python. It is a Framework for making 2D games using the Python programming language.
As far as I know it's a wrapper for SDL
4:50 Not only Celeste but Stardew Valley was also created in MonoGame (initially in XNA, later Eric, the creator of Stardew Valley, switched to MonoGame).
10:10 you can already have inspectors in bevy using plugins
and i think they said, "it shouldnt have an ui by default" or something like that
bevy engine is my favorite tbh
i used to be really into unity dots but since migrated to bevy engine
bevy is defiantly the best choose if you are into DOP and dont wanna worry about licencing stuff
its really easy to learn, even thought it was my first rust project, i was able to get the hang of it in 24 hours, really cool
it has everything i need
EDIT: Ok, my bad the quote was "It needs to have an (optional) graphical editor. Scene creation is a large part of game development and in many cases visual editors beat code." i remembered it wrong
Bevy will have an editor eventually.
There is a lot of discusion about what the editor should be. However, the ui is already in place, though is currently being upgraded to be better. The, "it shouldnt have an ui by default", quote isn't right, the closest I've seen is a short comment thread where some people say that it shouldn't have an editor by default, which I agree with. It has alwas been a pick and chose engine and that should include the editor.
@@awdsqe123 yeah i remembered the quote wrong, edited the comment.
I'm really interested to see what that editor looks like: I'm really hoping they *don't* try to squeeze the ECS system into a Unity/Unreal/Godot/everything else style object tree and property panel.
15:13 Btw, libGDX bootstrap creator allows you to select between Java or Kotlin to use in your game.
Glad ORX is part of this great selection with plenty good choices for everyone.
ORX is a powerful and mature game engine, and its full data-driven approach is really something to check ioo.
I want to mention Irrlicht since it is comparable to Ogre. I used it for Ludum Dare recently and it was a great library to work with. Don't let the terrible screenshots on its website fool you, its capable of a lot.
Is irrlicht still being maintained? I used irrlicht 10 years ago, even created a level editor with it. Haven't check it out for years.
12:10 Ruby is popular in Japan because it's creator is Japanese
KorGE's creator came back recently, so that one is still my favorite for Java/Kotlin (vastly prefer it over LibGDX, especially for multi-platform app/web) It still only mainly supports 2D though, with 3D being experimental and kind of rudimentary.
For all other stuff 2D/3D I'm sticking with Godot, although I'm still not a huge fan of the node based approach all engines recommend. I just want a render-loop and write code.
agree, writing the code is still the best. avoid frustration to unresolvable problem in node based programming.
That's an amazing list of resources! Took a lot down, and now have a lot to look into!
Now all we need is games developed inside a game.
@@brodriguez11000 Like Super Mario Maker or the Hypixel Minecraft server?
But my dream game does have an unlockable pseudoscriptung language that should be able to make games. One of several ways I plan to have user-generated content.
Oh. I was kind of expecting to find PyGame on this list as well...
Looking back, I did do Python kinda dirty in general, didnt I?
Phaser had Pixi as rendering engine until v2 (now Phaser CE). Phaser 3 has its own rendering engine.
In the Haxe ecosystem Deepnight also has some really nice gamebase libraries and he put out LDTK too.
Ruby is from Japan, that's why it's popular there.
This is a nice and quite educational video for someone who is new to game dev! Thank you! And like your speech style! Fast and close to the point! 👍
RPG Maker 2003 to VX Ace used Ruby. It got me aware of the concept of ‘programming languages’ and I remember asking my uncle when I was like, 12 what he knew about it. Now he was old then and old now but he never heard of Ruby 😂. He was a C++ business guy.
Now, I am interested in seeing where Dragon Toolkit goes, but personally, I might build my own engine off one of these frameworks.
I got that free book bundle you advertised (thanks btw) which had the Math book, Blender and Godot book and I should tear it up this week. My website is being made with Ruby, so it is the most comfortable. (Looking at Raylib w/Nim wrappers or maybe a Haxe base…)
Also, surprisingly there is no Nim ‘Frameworks’? I guess the Raylib binding goes 😂. Part of me thinks that it is because Nim is less popular then Rust and C++ and another is that Nim is apparently used for pentesters and security folk. Who knows, maybe I will be the first ;)
There is also JMonkey for 3D game engine for JDK! It also has a world placement editor.
he mentioned it
I didn't even know that XNA was dead. One of the two game tools we used in college. We had one course on XNA and another on creating scenes/levels with Unreal Engine (whichever version was based on Unreal Tournament 3)
10 years ago there was gosu, a C++/Ruby 2d game framework. Not that much action on it, but constantly bugfixes and care.
TBH I'd really like to see a "Your first game" type of video/stream using LÖVE, just because I think it would be a pretty relaxed video to watch and make.
Great news then...
gamefromscratch.com/gamedev-for-complete-beginners-tutorial-series/
At some point I'm going to hit a point where I've done a video on everything gamedev related, aren't I? ;)
@@gamefromscratch It would be a great achievement.
"Cocos is based off the old testament." -GameFromScratch 😅
It was the "I don't know" interjection that got me rolling
Good list mike! Learned some new titles as well, so thanks for that.
Love Is nice, muy only problem with lua is that it's so flexible every library has a different class system and using multiple users libraries is a mess unless you basically adapt them to your game. But the framework itself is nice
I'm curious, what is exactly that makes bevy and orcx so different? Could you make a video about it?
For what it seems, ORX is fully "data driven", where Bevy seems more "data oriented"
I'm currently playing god of war 2018. It really got me back into the god of war lore. I even went back to redownlaod all the old games
Hello from the DragonRuby community!
Dude, you really need a Dark Mode Plugin for your Browser. These Flashbangs kill my eyes. KEKW
I've used d3js for making gamejam games. It's a data driven visualization library. So a data-drive game libraries like ORX and Bevy sound really interesting.
I've been writing my own game library in Rust with WGPU library. I don't expect to get crazy far, but it's been fun...
Cool. I think Bevy uses WGPU which is smart. I’m currently making a C framework and graphics on multiple platforms is the hardest thing for sure.
Thought you would mention Defold (Lua) and Stride(c# I think 🤔)
Ah, Allegro. Before SDL was a thing, a lot of projects both good and bad, large and small had devs that cut their teeth with Allegro. IIRC some of the more involved devs of the open-source Sphere Game Engine helped Allegro bugfix some of the v5 stuff early on after we moved back to using Allegro from separate I/O libraries for convenience. Having separate bespoke open-source libraries for I/O was...interesting.
I'm glad you remebembered Ogre. Sad you've missed Irrlicht. They are kinda similiar in a way I learned them the same time really-really long time ago.
I remember IrrLicht, but honestly I thought it was dead, with Nikolaus Gebhardt moving on to other projects.
Hi there , Recently I've been spending time with unreal engine, but speaking about game in general, I've heard much less on their backend side of things. Could you make a general video on that as well? I'm also personally continuing my research on this area as well.
Don't hate Lua, the Lua in Minecraft's Computercraft mod is what made me realise I love programming. (Given the GW2 dev who helped learn it should probably get some of the credit too ❤)
pixie is really incredible...have to vouch for it - they made updates to it that made it A LOT faster few months ago (v8 version), and the API is very good and intuitive - i honestly love it...its the perfect level of abstraction for 2D rendering lib - no need to worry about webgl/webgpu syntax, but if you want, you can go very deep with it, implement your own shaders VERY easily - they are also pushing for webgpu (which uses the same rendering pipeline in v8 actually - webgl is basically a fallback, as canvas was before), which is exciting
Can you make a raylib tutorial?
Wow, what a list, thanks for the overview!
We need more lisp game tools
processing and p5js are also worth mentioning
Hello there developers, I have a quick question for anything favor with Monogame or FNA. What are the differences of those two frameworks, what are the advantages and disadvantages, and most importantly why should I use either one? I’m asking because finding info on FNA and Monogame from outside sources has been hard, and I would like to get some information about the frameworks before choosing one. Of course if I end up not liking the one I pick, then I’ll definitely check out the other option. Thank you for reading this, and if you leave any good feedback then thank you even more!
Thank you! I was so waiting such video!
Why do editors in game engines looks so intimidating to me? I know the GUI is made for simplicity but for me it looks unnecessarily complex to use and yet when I'm tasked to make a simple game using notepad++ with barebones JavaScript I aced it easily for some reason. Is it due to familiarity or because I'm afraid that the code looks too simple to be true due to the high level abstractions making me uneasy how it actually works inside the blackbox. Guy's what do you think, should I just switch to a framework instead?
Editors are useful mainly to create levels and serialize data for them. If you have a workflow for code, like procedural generation, then editor is not that much needed.
@@NeZversSounds all I know is that I can't focus when their is too many user interfaces, I can barely use Blender despite knowing it for almost a decade and yet when I use Mine Imator which is an animation software that is incredibly barebones and I can model and animate anything on it
100% @NezversSounds.
For some games, like as you said procedural generated ones, the editor and the level/scene workflow they force upon you can be a massive pain in the butt. In these cases a framework can often be a much better choice.
@@gamefromscratchthanks man, so framework it is, I'll try them all out on what you covered in this video
There's also amulet for lua which is highly overlooked.
A few more worth a look. AOZ Studio and FXGL
Nice. I remember about my project using libgdx. Which one let me do homebrew apps for the nintendo 3ds?
SMK should be on the C++ list, it renders for the Web easily
I made a game in Java in college, it was a requirement of the course... But I really don't remember what I used. It was for OpenGL...
Fun times.
@adamdee9671 Could be, I really don't remember. It's was back around 2010 I think...
Either way, I've made other games on Java as well, even back on VB4. LOL
But mostly card games, memory, stuff like that. But I never published anything... And I should. I believe I still should have good part of them...
Perhaps I create a blog, who knows. Should be interesting.
aframe is another interesting 3D web one with a focus on VR. i think it uses three.js under the hood and is pretty extendable
VXAce is the version of RPGMaker that used Ruby.
Think you should cover jmonkey again, it came along way and certainly belong on this list
Fun thing about Alegro - developers of Factorio said that it's basically unusable for them (and they switched to SDL 2).
So if you want to try it - just keep that fact in mind ;-)
A video on random middleware for UE5 would be interesting.
Thanks a lot! I came from programming and I feel really uncomfortable with a lot of the WYSIWYG editors in most game engines. I want something that abstracts away the raw GPU draw calls but I don't want to try to use someone else's implementation of something doing what I want to slightly differently.
Anything for functional programming? I want to use something with a functional reactive architecture like TEA from Elm and a pure functional language like haskell/PureScript
"The old testament" LMAO
I thought i was the only one that caught that - the delivery was pure genius 😂
ahhh allegro.. the "functions'n'structs" libraries are timeless classics.. although SDL is waaay better supported now as it's the core of Unreal, Godot, Unity etc
I'd love to see Colyseus mentioned by Mike someday 😇😇😇
Fantastic video
When you master libGDX you feel you're in a sigma edit
lol I agree
Haxeflixel and Phaser are probably the best ones of that list.
With great engine-agnostic editors like LDtk and TileD now it's way easier to make games with these frameworks.
Why include engines that are on alpha versions in a video called "The Best Game Development Frameworks"?
For example, Bevy is still under heavy construction, every release has breaking changes. It's completely fine to use it as a way to learn Rust and have fun working with these low-level frameworks, but you should not use it expecting to finish a game. If you absolutely want to use Rust to finish a game then there are other, more stable, frameworks (such as macroquad, fyrox).
I believe it would be Best to include Bevy in a "promissing game engines"; "Best" should be reserved for battle tested engines that have actual finished games attached to them.
What's the best framework for Mac?
The best? I don't know, but a good one to consider and check for Mac is ORX, and already ARM ready too.
You should always abstract your game logic from whatever you're using, always remember that, if you gotta port to something else later you can do that.
I'm wondering python is not in the language list...
Agree! Let me fix that:
* Pygame
* Panda3D
* Ren'py
Allegro is very pleasant and simple to work with, especially if you're using C.
what i noticed is a lot of these frameworks are connected to the games i played that were poorly optimized often. Believeitornot.
You forget LitiEngine in Java.. very lightweight, very easy to learn..
I wonder how easy libGDX is to use with Kotlin
I love libGDX for some reason. lol
Same, it's what got me really deep into programming in general. My first language at university was Java so it was a natural step. That was so many years ago though, I just feel like I want to tinker with it again.
Nice video, but I'm trying to stay out of that rabbit hole,.
Although I did just watch a raylib tutorial, that was kinda interesting.🤔
Damn it, I'll probably end up tinkering with raylib now. Grrrr. 😂
How can you mention TheForge and bgfx and not at least name drop DiligentEngine. It is the best C++ HAL as it takes away the pain to write Vulkan / Dx12 code while still retaining a similar API (much more simplified). Its beautifully simple. Dont want to deal with synchronization? No problem, the library can do it! Dont want to deal with descriptor sets? No problem, the library got you covered! Wanna write actual HLSL and run it everywhere? Of course. But you are not forced to. You can pick the abstractions you want. And it has perfect tutorials, something that cannot he said about the Forge.
Now all that's missing is a video on fantasy computers and consoles like pico, tic80, etc. Or did mike already do one of those?
It's a bit older but.
gamefromscratch.com/fantasy-console-development/
Wow dude, the games made with LibGDX look sexy
For 2d games AIR sdk is good choice! Not sure how come you missed it ?
Isn't it closed source and from Adobe? ;-)
@@igorthelight So ?
@@amateurdeveloper Some people could look at it and ask "why bother?". On a plus side, I heard that it feels very like good old Flash ;-)
@@igorthelight Yeah may be! It's also a good place to start learning game programming.
You forgot to talk about strong panda3d game engine
Ruby comes from Japan, so that might be why its so popular there lol
Can monogame do 3d?
Yes. It can do 3D.
IrrLicht Egine, despite having engine in the name, don't actually come with any editor, so it would count, too.
Is IrrLicht still developed? I thought it was pretty much abandoned at this point.
@@gamefromscratch The last update was almost 2 years ago.
@@Ariemeth Which makes it newer than Allegro :D
@@SylvanFeanturi Fair point and sad.
Ruby is popular in Japan because the creator, Matz, is Japanese.
Not a big fan of Java but no problem with C#? Uh they're the same language.
So libgdx would work with any of the jvm language so libgdx and kotlin would be a thing.
I believe you can - On its main page - i think it breaks down using other JVMs including Kotlin, Scala and Clojure.
Ok, serious question - since when did we settle on definition that "proper" engine has to come with a built-in editor and toolchain? Are Quake and Doom engines not "real engines"? It feels to me like we bought to marketing of the big two "engines" a bit too much
It's an artificial construct I adhered to to make the video work. As said in the video, the line is grey and blurry and highly arbitrary. But there is no better way to describe "a collection of game development libraries without an editor, but with more functionality than a general purpose or single purpose library, but with less tooling than a large game engine", so "framework" it is.
No raylib? No Panda3D? :( EDIT: I don't know how I missed raylib despite watching the whole video! hah
Raylib is in there. Panda, and all Python frameworks arent (mostly as an oversight)
- GFS, great video & info ... Again !! 👍
- I´ve just added " SFML " to your list. - Has modules for: system, window, graphics, audio and network. - Was amazing working with that framework! - NOTE: I have NO ideia if the project is still alive ( or not ) since I´m not using it since many years ago - I´ve been working only with GODOT - but I remember to try ( almost everything ) that existed at that time, and this was the most complete and easiest framework at those times. - No idea how it is that fantastic project in our current days ...
( EDIT: I´ve just checked the project, its in Github now, and have changes uploaded just hours ago ... GREAT !!!! )
SFML is number 2 ;)
@@gamefromscratch Print ( " Ops !... " ) 😁
Raylib-CS is great for C# devs and I would say easier to use than monogame or FNA
I wouldn't say great. It's very confused on the C# side due to having two entirely separate projects for bindings, each implementing some things the other don't. And you can't use them both. And very few of the extensions (raygui, raudio, etc) have bindings so if you want to use them you have to build your own bindings which is way out of scope for most people.
@@Clawthorne yeah that’s fair. I have run into all of those issues now that you mention it. Maybe I’m optimistic!
@@ar_xiv raylib is almost a perfect library ngl
Gunslinger (c99)
Pygame?
Before I contributerd to godot, I made a open source game engine with MonoGame.
Language: Go
Framework: Ebiten
LibGDX is amazing but Java... Well, you've got the idea.
Kotlin is a choice with LibGDX ;-)
No love for Golang :(
There’s Engo and Ebitengine
Golang - Ebitengine.