Great vid! I see a few calling the last shot a cafe crème. But it isn’t quite the same. A cafe crème is around 120 to 160 ml in 23 to 28 sec (depending on the coffee) and should taste sweet, fruity and have a balanced acidity and no astringency. Even though some here in The Netherlands might call it a lungo.
iBarista thanks for watching. And I’m with you. I think in the end like I said, these kinds of terms can be interchangeable to some extent. Coffee is funny like that.
Here in Argentina there's a lot of people that want americanos, or a long shot. We usually put a little bit of water like an americano but less water, and it actually tastes good, It's not bitter but looses texture and body.
Franco Pettine I personally am not an Americano fan. They taste super watery to me. A long black, which is basically the same with less water is more my speed, but only after you spoon off the crema.
When brewing espresso, it's easy to get hung up on the numbers. I've discovered that I get the best taste by simply watching the color of the crema as it drips. As soon as it reaches that pale, off white color, I stop the shot and remove the cup. Letting it flow longer just increases bitterness and thins out the texture (or mouth-feel). Cutting off the pull before then makes the espresso sour and intense (some prefer it this way). Concentrating on a stopwatch or a scale just confuses the issue. In the end, it's all about the taste, and the color of the crema is the best guide to the flavor in the cup,
Spro, I know this is an older video but that wiki lungo reminds me of a Cafe Crema. My local barista (in Spain) is Dutch and when I first moved here 13 years ago the Cafe Crema was the drink that she suggested to me as replacement for filter coffee which was basically nonexistent (still isn't common outside of specialty shops). All these years later and that coffee still isn't on the menu but if you know, you know, lol. There is little info on this drink on youtube with wholelattelove being the only one with a video that I see. Though I believe it is mentioned in a few of Toms videos on Toms coffee corner as well. I personally find that I like a 1:5 ratio but depending on the coffee go 1:5, 1:6 or even 1:7. Personally, I find it works best on coffee that is on the darker end of medium. Anyway, I was just rewatching some old videos and that thought came to me.
It is ironic that the third method is called "the wiki lungo", as "wiki" is Hawaiian for "quick" and the third method is actually the longest running shot 😂
I actually tried this yesterday. I thought to myself: "A lungo, surely that must be like 1:4?" Pulled a shot and was blown out of the water. It was delicious! Then I went onto Wikipedia and saw what the article says. "Ooook, I guess I'll try." Nope. I'll stick to 1:4.
Always i make lungo's on my Lelit machine, 9 grams not fine grind, single basket, pressure goes up only 3 bar, and it goes quickly in 18 seconds, 90cc! Very nice taste, much better than the same beans in filter machine. Apperently its too quick but it gives me the best taste, if i grind finer it becomes bitter, on any crema beans.
Method 4. I was taught in 2 different barista courses that nearly all shots were about 30 seconds. Latte, Cappuccino, Flat White, Double Ristretto, Lungo etc using brew ratio. So dial in to get 17gms in 51gms out in about 30 seconds to get a Lungo or 17gms in 17gms out in 30seconds for double ristretto or 17gms in 34gms out in 30 seconds for an espresso. After that adjust to taste, time and/or grind. I know this is personal preference but this works for me at home and some of the cafes I frequent.
I think that generally that’s true. But I found that ristretto actually for me, works best at about 15 seconds. But if it tastes good, I can’t argue with that.
hi do u think dark roast beans could work well with this brew ratio 30 seconds? i have to use single shot 30g from 60g output for a dark roast latte recipe, had headache to determine whether to pull longer or not as i read dark roast mainly only great to pull 1:1.5. many thanks
I always used to think of espresso drinks like this: dial in a coffee bean for a 1:2.5 ratio for an espresso. Killing the shot a bit early at at a 1:2 ratio makes a ristretto, letting it run a bit longer until you hit the 1:3 ratio makes a lungo. However, that‘s not to say that this leads to the most pleasurable experience.
Wow I like all of this methods and diversity for corto, espresso and lungo. Italian espresso is just plain boring: Corto 7g in 20g out in 20s Espresso 7g in 25g out in 25s Lungo 7g in 30g out in 30s. There's no difference in grind size, input or other variables. Usually they're not timed nor weighted, all is done by empirical test an all. I love your ways Sprometheus much love from Italy ❤️
So, original Espresso isn't even near the 1:2 ratio? That's interesting. I just pulled 8 g in, 16 out this morning in 28 seconds. I have just started and it was my best cup yet. But maybe I will have to pull longer drinks?
@@HenryPiffpaff Hey ☺️ yes Italian espresso is an empirical thing, no such thing as ratio, weight...that's why is so inconsistent! I think if I had an espresso machine I'll go for more long and controlled shots like: 18 in 50 out in something like 30 something seconds. I worked in a bar here, 95% of the times they just tell you 1 coffee, they mean the classic ahhahahah cappuccino is rarer than people usually think, just in the morning with cornetto (I still don't understand why)
@@usafan96soren20 Ahh, thank you :) I like coffee milk drinks so my main goal is to have a good Espresso as a base for those. Interesting how popular or unpopular milk drinks are in different regions (I'm from Germany) ;) But I have come to develop a little bit of a taste for stronger coffee/Espresso, at least if brewed correctly
That last one sounds a lot like the allongé that Scott Rao and co like to pull on the Decent. They usually recommend a 1:41:5 ratio and have mentioned that it is super hard to dial in without it becoming a mess of channeling.
I was just about to mention this. But, like you said, it's a really hard to dial in on a Decent. Dialing it in on any other machine is possible, but very time & coffee consuming. Maintaining 5 bar of pressure in conjunction with a flowrate 5ml per second takes a lot of trial and error.
slipperydippery I will check it out. Mostly curious about what coffee they’re using for that. I feel like most of these long shots require the perfect bean.
Really cool video! Question - how come you’re dosing straight into the portafilter vs. the niche dosing cup? Just curious if you see better results that way
You know I thought more people would be asking about that. But I find I get a much better distribution that way than by using the cup. The cup itself has a tendency to create clumps, and that shows in the bottomless in a big way in terms of channeling and generally messy extractions.
I’ve heard that too, and apparently it’s also called a Cafe Crema. But in my experience the long black is a standard shot with a small amount of water added to it.
The Real Sprometheus long black is from New Zealand and Australia, used to be a really long shot through a single basket (about 10g coffee to 50g liquid). Nowadays it’s just a regular double espresso (short black) with a ~50g jug of water to the side. I sometimes order a long black just to drink espresso then rinse and wash the dregs from the cup
I'm working as a barista in Thailand, which iced espresso drinks are much more popular than hot coffee. In my shop we use lungo shot for making "Iced espresso". It tasted good but actually I hate it.
After reading about Scott Rao’s 3:1 espresso that is what I have been doing with my Niche and Cafelat Robot. For all espressos. 20g coffee and 60g drink out. It has been working pretty well for me.
The Real Sprometheus yea I usually start the timer and slowly push down the robots arms for about 10 seconds until it get to 1-2 bars of pressure and the espresso starts to come through and drip into the glass I increase to 8bar, highest pressure recommended for the robot on a regular basis, until I hit my weight.
Another good one. I however don’t think I will try these just yet. I’m still trying to dial in my new machine and grinder for the standard double shot😬. I’m close but just not quite there 🤞🏼
Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not sure of the point of anything but drawing a normal shot and adding hot water to adjust the intensity. I guess if one wants to create a specific flavor profile with over-bright beans, it makes sense, but it seems like this is just doing one's best to overextract without getting the typical overextraction tastes.
It's simply due to lighter roasts both being able to take more extraction without being overextraction and them needing higher extraction to taste good. Doing this with a darkroast though would go totally horrible
Sadly, the only time I made a lungo only when I incorrectly adjust my grinder especially if I mistakenly using my old beans instead a newer one which old beans need to grind finer than new one
I think the 45 second choice is the weak link in the 1:3 method. Like @UCPkC3lZzwSxOUf2QK-yxr0g points out with the "cafe creme" this also would benefit from a shorter 30ish second pull. Scott Rao has his "allonge" which is a 1:6/7 ratio "fruit bomb" that is pulled in that 30 second window. I think if time isn't an integral part of the "recipe" the grind needs to adjusted to get the best possible cup. Then it's possible to actually judge the "recipe". Otherwise it's not really a fair comparison. Regardless, love your videos and appreciate the time and effort you spend on them!!! Vielen dank
To me the wiki lungo is more something like what we in Germany call a café creme. However, I would suggest coarsening up the grind a bit more and using a smaller dose than usual.
After putting this video out is the first time I’ve heard of a cafe crema, but it sounds similar. So who’s to say. Same ingredients, similar time. Could very well just be semantics.
Brew Coffee in cup , call it a Derek for all I care . People get too hung up on is it a ristretto or a lungo. Old terms for when no one had scales and it was the only way to communicate what we now call a recipe.
There is no way that you are going to make the last style taste good on a normal espresso machine with flat pressure all the way thru the shot. On the Decent Espresso side, we have something that is called the Rao Allonge, pretty obvious from the name who it was developed by. The first and obvious issue as you pointed out is the shot degrades rapidly as you are trying to put a lot of water thru the puck, since the machine has fixed pressure this wreaks havoc on your puck. Second is the temperature stability thought the shot, the last part of the shot will be much cooler than the first part since the machine is just pumping massive amounts of water at that point. I can tell you that I've had some of the best tasting shots out of the "Allonge" from the DE. This style of shot when used with the proper lightly roasted coffee will give you an incredibly fruity shot that a normal espresso extraction will not come close too. However if you try it with a medium or dark roasted coffee all you get is bitterness. The way you achieve a proper shot of this style is by controlling flow and not pressure, set your grind so that achieve 6-8 bar while flowing at 3 to 3.5 ml/s. All of this needs to happen while maintaining proper water temperature when you put 150 grams of water thru the puck.
Michael Garcia for sure. I’ve heard a bit about this. I may have to swing by a buddies spot or try this at the roasting collective to see if I can make it happen. In the end, it’s that level of controllability that generally turns me away from the DE as my daily machine. But once I have the space I’d definitely snag one for things like this.
@@Sprometheus Good luck keep us updated. A head to head with the mini and the DE will be fire for a good video, traditional vs modern espresso machines.
Hi, Have you tried pulling a standard shot and then adding 30 ish grams of water to it? I find this to make a decent lungo because you don’t get any over extraction.
Great experiment. The same happens in moka pot too. I normally was aiming to get max liquid out before sputtering (this is James Hoffmann's recommendation too) The liquid was getting blondier and blondier leaving me asking if I should stop it here or not. Later I saw Wired Gourmet's 1:3 recommendation, than I added 1 unit more to the end result and aimed for 1:4 (because I think moka pots need a bit more to fully extract before blonding) and tastewise it was way better. So these type of overpressured (espresso) / overtemperatured (moka) methods dont like to go "lungo".
Not to contradict you because I’m not a barista, but your “standard shot” is actually a double. In Italy (where lungo is a common serving) a standard shot is 7gr ish. A single basket with 7-9gr pulled as a lungo tastes different to me from a double basket.
That’s not really a contradiction more so than just a cultural norm. In the states a double is referred to as a shot. Most cafes, and even home baristas pull a double as their standard.
Thanks mate! Exactly the answers I was looking for. Awesome work, especially the editing! Out of interest: Do you pull a lungo shot also with nine athmospheres, or does the manometer on the machine drop due to the coarser grind?
For a little while now I’ve been leaning towards faster extractions due to a more even flow of water through the bed, and generally better tasting shots.
Flavio Inzunza up to you. For this I used no pre infusion. But at the moment I’m doing about. 3 seconds or of “pre-brewing” on standard shots with about 3 seconds of time off before I go back to full pressure
I upgraded from my breville. Now can do flow control and have found best results for bright coffee is low flow until first drops (10 seconds or so) then about 3/4 flow. Also noticed with lower flow you can grind finer and shot runs a little faster than without.
The Real Sprometheus Can you please elaborate more on the “pre-brewing “ part for faster extractions ?? I also have a Linea Mini but is totally clueless with the on and off preinfusion （or pre brewing?) function. I am a newbie to the coffee world, and love all your videos❤️. There isn’t much information on the internet on making light roast single origin espressos. Some people say that you need to brew with a much higher temperature (95degrees Celsius?) and a much longer extraction time (40- 50s for a 1:2 ratio?) because they say that light roast coffees are much harder to extract... Anyway, I am very confused, please help!!
paralløl.world I would prefer an Americano. This one just pulls too much water through the puck and the risk of over extraction when going for a full cup of coffee almost unavoidable.
Rather than a lungo, I think an Italiano would taste better. It's an Americano with less water. You're already getting a watered down shot with both the lungo and italiano, I'd rather opt out of the bitterness the lungo brings, depending on the coffee of course. An Italiano is probably the closest I've gotten to something resembling filter coffee using espresso. It's probably no what lungo drinkers are looking for though. They probably like the higher extraction.
Ricky Ng yeah I think a lot of people go for a long black, which is basically just adding a bit of hot water to your espresso. A baby Americano so to speak. Haha.
@@Sprometheus I've tried tweaking traditional Americanos for quite some time. With the large amount of water usually added, the end result was bland and sometimes dry when drinking it. Luckily reddit doesn't disappoint with constant advice.
What about brew a normal espresso and add hot water to it. I know that's more americano than lungo but let's be honest,. Are people that drink lungo even gonna know the difference? 😀
Luben Z it’s pretty common to do that, if it’s just a couple ounces of hot water it’s actually called a long black. I may have to do a video on that in the future.
I was so confused when you said Wonderstate while holding the Kickapoo bag, but then I actually saw the caption and looked into it. First espresso sounded tasty 😋
Hey, I usually enjoy your videos. Today there is something that does not add up. Wikipedia's info is in MILILITERS NOT GRAMS... 1 kilogram of coffee does not equal liter of coffee, THIS IS ONLY FOR WATER!!!
You're right, but in reality it doesn't really matter for coffee because it's density is so close to the density of water. Coffee is about 1000.9 g/L where water is that 1000 g/L. So effectively, you can assume that 1 kilo of coffee is a liter because of how close in density water and coffee are (www.aqua-calc.com/page/density-table/substance/beverages-coma-and-blank-coffee-coma-and-blank-brewed-coma-and-blank-espresso-coma-and-blank-restaurant-prepared)
Classic/Signature or Pro? I've always found that the smaller diameter Classic/Signature requires a coarser grind compared to the normal 58mm portafilter. Therefore, to achieve the proper extraction with the Flair the brew time needs to be a bit longer.
Kevin Severs with the Flair regardless of model, I tend to aim for the same timeline. Just make adjustments to the grind to do that based on diameter and depths of the Flair portafilter.
@@Sprometheus Interesting. I've found if I grind coarse enough to be in the 25-30 second range I'm always underextracting. Around 35-40 seems to be the sweet spot for me. I think with the coarser grind you need more contact time for equivalent extraction.
Kevin Severs everyone’s tastes is different, and often times grinders vary quite a bit. If it isn’t broken though, don’t fix it. Just make adjustments as needed.
flair 58. 20g dose. pull all 90g water through without stopping short. This yields a 70g drink in the cup. the perfect lungo>???
Great video! Found myself stumbling onto lungos starting out with a less than ideal grinder and this guidance is super helpful.
I always go with: 20 gr in and 56-60 gr (2 oz.) out in 25-30 sec. With this volumen I make lungos, cappuccino, lattes, mochas.
Carlos Velázquez right on. I like the lower ratios for my Capps and lattes, but it all depends on the coffee in the end.
Great vid! I see a few calling the last shot a cafe crème. But it isn’t quite the same. A cafe crème is around 120 to 160 ml in 23 to 28 sec (depending on the coffee) and should taste sweet, fruity and have a balanced acidity and no astringency. Even though some here in The Netherlands might call it a lungo.
iBarista thanks for watching. And I’m with you. I think in the end like I said, these kinds of terms can be interchangeable to some extent. Coffee is funny like that.
Gz,
The wiki lungo is what you get if you ask for a cup of coffee almost anywhere in the Netherlands. Haven't seen a single batch brewer in my city.
Very weird, considering the best batch brewer is made in your country
where do you buy your coffee in the NL?
@@gjdriessen1 I moved away a few years ago but I used to order beans from Friedhats, Bocca and LOT61.
i actually felt physically unsettled by how big that first shot was in the opening scene
Haha that kind of was the idea. Gotta have that opening shock value haha.
Here in Argentina there's a lot of people that want americanos, or a long shot. We usually put a little bit of water like an americano but less water, and it actually tastes good, It's not bitter but looses texture and body.
Franco Pettine I personally am not an Americano fan. They taste super watery to me. A long black, which is basically the same with less water is more my speed, but only after you spoon off the crema.
@@Sprometheus Well, for me too, but Argentina has a lot of torrado, so imagine the type of things they ask for...
When brewing espresso, it's easy to get hung up on the numbers. I've discovered that I get the best taste by simply watching the color of the crema as it drips. As soon as it reaches that pale, off white color, I stop the shot and remove the cup. Letting it flow longer just increases bitterness and thins out the texture (or mouth-feel). Cutting off the pull before then makes the espresso sour and intense (some prefer it this way). Concentrating on a stopwatch or a scale just confuses the issue. In the end, it's all about the taste, and the color of the crema is the best guide to the flavor in the cup,
Spro, I know this is an older video but that wiki lungo reminds me of a Cafe Crema. My local barista (in Spain) is Dutch and when I first moved here 13 years ago the Cafe Crema was the drink that she suggested to me as replacement for filter coffee which was basically nonexistent (still isn't common outside of specialty shops). All these years later and that coffee still isn't on the menu but if you know, you know, lol.
There is little info on this drink on youtube with wholelattelove being the only one with a video that I see. Though I believe it is mentioned in a few of Toms videos on Toms coffee corner as well. I personally find that I like a 1:5 ratio but depending on the coffee go 1:5, 1:6 or even 1:7. Personally, I find it works best on coffee that is on the darker end of medium.
Anyway, I was just rewatching some old videos and that thought came to me.
It is ironic that the third method is called "the wiki lungo", as "wiki" is Hawaiian for "quick" and the third method is actually the longest running shot 😂
Haha that is pretty ironic!
The last one looks to me more like a “café crème”, how we call them here in Germany, instead of a lungo shot. 🤔
Ben Sterz yeah I’ve only recently heard of that drink. We don’t have them in the States. But it sounds pretty similar.
yes, however a "café crème" is dialed so it runs through in around 30 seconds. therefore its just as balanced as an espresso but weaker
This comment section is now officially owned by Germany 🇩🇪
Joskaffeekutsche haha this is so true
@@joskaffeekutsche6634 🇨🇭 entered the chat
I actually tried this yesterday. I thought to myself: "A lungo, surely that must be like 1:4?" Pulled a shot and was blown out of the water. It was delicious!
Then I went onto Wikipedia and saw what the article says. "Ooook, I guess I'll try."
Nope. I'll stick to 1:4.
this is literally my same experience just now I was like no way this would work but it does
Always i make lungo's on my Lelit machine, 9 grams not fine grind, single basket, pressure goes up only 3 bar, and it goes quickly in 18 seconds, 90cc!
Very nice taste, much better than the same beans in filter machine.
Apperently its too quick but it gives me the best taste, if i grind finer it becomes bitter, on any crema beans.
Method 4. I was taught in 2 different barista courses that nearly all shots were about 30 seconds. Latte, Cappuccino, Flat White, Double Ristretto, Lungo etc using brew ratio. So dial in to get 17gms in 51gms out in about 30 seconds to get a Lungo or 17gms in 17gms out in 30seconds for double ristretto or 17gms in 34gms out in 30 seconds for an espresso. After that adjust to taste, time and/or grind. I know this is personal preference but this works for me at home and some of the cafes I frequent.
I think that generally that’s true. But I found that ristretto actually for me, works best at about 15 seconds. But if it tastes good, I can’t argue with that.
hi do u think dark roast beans could work well with this brew ratio 30 seconds? i have to use single shot 30g from 60g output for a dark roast latte recipe, had headache to determine whether to pull longer or not as i read dark roast mainly only great to pull 1:1.5. many thanks
I always used to think of espresso drinks like this: dial in a coffee bean for a 1:2.5 ratio for an espresso. Killing the shot a bit early at at a 1:2 ratio makes a ristretto, letting it run a bit longer until you hit the 1:3 ratio makes a lungo. However, that‘s not to say that this leads to the most pleasurable experience.
Yeay!
Thanks for watching!
would lowering temp for lungo make sense ?
Nice editing
Wow I like all of this methods and diversity for corto, espresso and lungo. Italian espresso is just plain boring:
Corto 7g in 20g out in 20s
Espresso 7g in 25g out in 25s
Lungo 7g in 30g out in 30s.
There's no difference in grind size, input or other variables. Usually they're not timed nor weighted, all is done by empirical test an all.
I love your ways Sprometheus much love from Italy ❤️
So, original Espresso isn't even near the 1:2 ratio? That's interesting. I just pulled 8 g in, 16 out this morning in 28 seconds. I have just started and it was my best cup yet. But maybe I will have to pull longer drinks?
@@HenryPiffpaff Hey ☺️ yes Italian espresso is an empirical thing, no such thing as ratio, weight...that's why is so inconsistent!
I think if I had an espresso machine I'll go for more long and controlled shots like: 18 in 50 out in something like 30 something seconds.
I worked in a bar here, 95% of the times they just tell you 1 coffee, they mean the classic ahhahahah cappuccino is rarer than people usually think, just in the morning with cornetto (I still don't understand why)
@@usafan96soren20 Ahh, thank you :) I like coffee milk drinks so my main goal is to have a good Espresso as a base for those. Interesting how popular or unpopular milk drinks are in different regions (I'm from Germany) ;) But I have come to develop a little bit of a taste for stronger coffee/Espresso, at least if brewed correctly
That last one sounds a lot like the allongé that Scott Rao and co like to pull on the Decent. They usually recommend a 1:4 1:5 ratio and have mentioned that it is super hard to dial in without it becoming a mess of channeling.
I was just about to mention this. But, like you said, it's a really hard to dial in on a Decent. Dialing it in on any other machine is possible, but very time & coffee consuming. Maintaining 5 bar of pressure in conjunction with a flowrate 5ml per second takes a lot of trial and error.
Calvin Rey yeah I can’t imagine that version tasting good either.
@@Sprometheus Apparently it's really good. You should check out the Rao Allongé zoom call on the decent espresso channel
slipperydippery I will check it out. Mostly curious about what coffee they’re using for that. I feel like most of these long shots require the perfect bean.
They use light roast to "ultra" light roast and claim the pull tastes close to filter coffee
And now wikipedia states that a lungo output is 50-70ml. Although that's for a 7-9 gram single, so, not a huge difference in actual ratio.
Really cool video! Question - how come you’re dosing straight into the portafilter vs. the niche dosing cup? Just curious if you see better results that way
You know I thought more people would be asking about that. But I find I get a much better distribution that way than by using the cup. The cup itself has a tendency to create clumps, and that shows in the bottomless in a big way in terms of channeling and generally messy extractions.
Knittingpatttring
The last one is a pretty common drink in New Brunswick Canada from what I heard. I think they call it a long black or something like that.
I’ve heard that too, and apparently it’s also called a Cafe Crema. But in my experience the long black is a standard shot with a small amount of water added to it.
The Real Sprometheus long black is from New Zealand and Australia, used to be a really long shot through a single basket (about 10g coffee to 50g liquid). Nowadays it’s just a regular double espresso (short black) with a ~50g jug of water to the side. I sometimes order a long black just to drink espresso then rinse and wash the dregs from the cup
I'm working as a barista in Thailand, which iced espresso drinks are much more popular than hot coffee. In my shop we use lungo shot for making "Iced espresso". It tasted good but actually I hate it.
After reading about Scott Rao’s 3:1 espresso that is what I have been doing with my Niche and Cafelat Robot. For all espressos. 20g coffee and 60g drink out. It has been working pretty well for me.
cameronbatko any sort of pre-infusion or pressure profiling?
The Real Sprometheus yea I usually start the timer and slowly push down the robots arms for about 10 seconds until it get to 1-2 bars of pressure and the espresso starts to come through and drip into the glass I increase to 8bar, highest pressure recommended for the robot on a regular basis, until I hit my weight.
This is my exact recipe as well
Could you pass on the recipe or a link for me man?
Another good one. I however don’t think I will try these just yet. I’m still trying to dial in my new machine and grinder for the standard double shot😬. I’m close but just not quite there 🤞🏼
Tim Rogers I feel you! This is more of a rabbit hole to go down when you’ve mastered the standard pulls.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not sure of the point of anything but drawing a normal shot and adding hot water to adjust the intensity. I guess if one wants to create a specific flavor profile with over-bright beans, it makes sense, but it seems like this is just doing one's best to overextract without getting the typical overextraction tastes.
It's simply due to lighter roasts both being able to take more extraction without being overextraction and them needing higher extraction to taste good. Doing this with a darkroast though would go totally horrible
Sadly, the only time I made a lungo only when I incorrectly adjust my grinder especially if I mistakenly using my old beans instead a newer one which old beans need to grind finer than new one
Won’t setting the grind more coarse lead to having the espresso come out watery and fast?
I think the 45 second choice is the weak link in the 1:3 method. Like @UCPkC3lZzwSxOUf2QK-yxr0g points out with the "cafe creme" this also would benefit from a shorter 30ish second pull. Scott Rao has his "allonge" which is a 1:6/7 ratio "fruit bomb" that is pulled in that 30 second window.
I think if time isn't an integral part of the "recipe" the grind needs to adjusted to get the best possible cup. Then it's possible to actually judge the "recipe". Otherwise it's not really a fair comparison.
Regardless, love your videos and appreciate the time and effort you spend on them!!!
Vielen dank
Great video ! I will try the hybrid for my afternoon espresso Ethiopian from Onyx.
Thank you! And absolutely, that sounds like the perfect coffee for that! Let me know how it goes.
To me the wiki lungo is more something like what we in Germany call a café creme. However, I would suggest coarsening up the grind a bit more and using a smaller dose than usual.
Nice ! What about caffé crema ? Long pull corse ground. Is it the same thing just called different ?
After putting this video out is the first time I’ve heard of a cafe crema, but it sounds similar. So who’s to say. Same ingredients, similar time. Could very well just be semantics.
yeah. The lungo wiki shot may use in Thailand by most famous coffee brand LOL.
Brew Coffee in cup , call it a Derek for all I care . People get too hung up on is it a ristretto or a lungo. Old terms for when no one had scales and it was the only way to communicate what we now call a recipe.
Can you do a video doing 6bar shots? 1:2 9bar vs 1:2 6bar shot etc...
Could you post a tutorial on how to make the galão coffee?
There is no way that you are going to make the last style taste good on a normal espresso machine with flat pressure all the way thru the shot. On the Decent Espresso side, we have something that is called the Rao Allonge, pretty obvious from the name who it was developed by.
The first and obvious issue as you pointed out is the shot degrades rapidly as you are trying to put a lot of water thru the puck, since the machine has fixed pressure this wreaks havoc on your puck. Second is the temperature stability thought the shot, the last part of the shot will be much cooler than the first part since the machine is just pumping massive amounts of water at that point.
I can tell you that I've had some of the best tasting shots out of the "Allonge" from the DE. This style of shot when used with the proper lightly roasted coffee will give you an incredibly fruity shot that a normal espresso extraction will not come close too. However if you try it with a medium or dark roasted coffee all you get is bitterness.
The way you achieve a proper shot of this style is by controlling flow and not pressure, set your grind so that achieve 6-8 bar while flowing at 3 to 3.5 ml/s. All of this needs to happen while maintaining proper water temperature when you put 150 grams of water thru the puck.
Michael Garcia for sure. I’ve heard a bit about this. I may have to swing by a buddies spot or try this at the roasting collective to see if I can make it happen.
In the end, it’s that level of controllability that generally turns me away from the DE as my daily machine. But once I have the space I’d definitely snag one for things like this.
@@Sprometheus Good luck keep us updated. A head to head with the mini and the DE will be fire for a good video, traditional vs modern espresso machines.
3:54 not today satan, not today
Panos Nicolaou haha I didn’t even notice that until everything was done and edited. Figured I’d leave it as an Easter egg.
Great video! But eight ads for one video... that was definately a pita to watch.
There are 8 ads? There should only be 3. But Lately I’ve been seeing double ads. Counted as one.
@@Sprometheus yeah, I had four double ads
Dang. Not sure if I can do anything about the double add situation. But if it’s any conciliation it helps me pay my rent haha.
@@Sprometheus I know, it just kept interupting the flow of the video thus making it harder to follow and destroying the chill vibe of your video.
Yep lots of ads.... but that is happening all over Y,T
Hi, Have you tried pulling a standard shot and then adding 30 ish grams of water to it? I find this to make a decent lungo because you don’t get any over extraction.
Mendy Werner yeah that’s not bad, but technically that’s what’s called a Long Black. Essentially a baby Americano.
The Real Sprometheus oh... lol I have to change something on my menu then..
I did not get exactly what the Hybrid method is supposed to be. 17g coffee, with 68ml output in 30s? That's 1:4 ratio, wow.
Please explain on total dissolve solids for your next video
I wonder if u are using the 1:3 ratio and pulling it in 30 seconds.. Will it taste better?
I think it would. I’m a firm believer that faster shot times are not the enemy of a great espresso.
Great experiment. The same happens in moka pot too. I normally was aiming to get max liquid out before sputtering (this is James Hoffmann's recommendation too) The liquid was getting blondier and blondier leaving me asking if I should stop it here or not. Later I saw Wired Gourmet's 1:3 recommendation, than I added 1 unit more to the end result and aimed for 1:4 (because I think moka pots need a bit more to fully extract before blonding) and tastewise it was way better. So these type of overpressured (espresso) / overtemperatured (moka) methods dont like to go "lungo".
What are the differences in flavour profile between a lungo and drip coffee??
a lungo gives more coffee flavour taste
Not to contradict you because I’m not a barista, but your “standard shot” is actually a double. In Italy (where lungo is a common serving) a standard shot is 7gr ish. A single basket with 7-9gr pulled as a lungo tastes different to me from a double basket.
That’s not really a contradiction more so than just a cultural norm. In the states a double is referred to as a shot. Most cafes, and even home baristas pull a double as their standard.
The Real Sprometheus Gotcha. It’s much the same here in Ireland but at home I stick to single shots mostly so I can have coffee more often.
Amatőr😀
Thanks mate! Exactly the answers I was looking for. Awesome work, especially the editing!
Out of interest:
Do you pull a lungo shot also with nine athmospheres, or does the manometer on the machine drop due to the coarser grind?
MKE represent!
At 3:30 You said standard shot was 17 in 34 out in 20 seconds? Isn’t that a little fast?
For a little while now I’ve been leaning towards faster extractions due to a more even flow of water through the bed, and generally better tasting shots.
Flavio Inzunza up to you. For this I used no pre infusion. But at the moment I’m doing about. 3 seconds or of “pre-brewing” on standard shots with about 3 seconds of time off before I go back to full pressure
I upgraded from my breville. Now can do flow control and have found best results for bright coffee is low flow until first drops (10 seconds or so) then about 3/4 flow. Also noticed with lower flow you can grind finer and shot runs a little faster than without.
The Real Sprometheus Can you please elaborate more on the “pre-brewing “ part for faster extractions ?? I also have a Linea Mini but is totally clueless with the on and off preinfusion （or pre brewing?) function. I am a newbie to the coffee world, and love all your videos❤️. There isn’t much information on the internet on making light roast single origin espressos. Some people say that you need to brew with a much higher temperature (95degrees Celsius?) and a much longer extraction time (40- 50s for a 1:2 ratio?) because they say that light roast coffees are much harder to extract... Anyway, I am very confused, please help!!
How does this very coffee compare as an Americano?
paralløl.world I would prefer an Americano. This one just pulls too much water through the puck and the risk of over extraction when going for a full cup of coffee almost unavoidable.
😍👌👌👌 finally 😁😁👏👏
Amer Marashi I hope you enjoy!
@@Sprometheus I really did enjoy it. Using a floral coffee for it, is a very smart idea. Keep up the good work 😁👏👏
Amer Marashi thank you! I appreciate that, will do!
Love this series. Also, where do you get that espresso cup?
Thanks Michael! It’s one of my favorite series to do as well. The cups are Kruve and they are called Propel.
Brutha big typo at 2.22m hahah single!
Not a typo. Single as in one continuous pull.
@@Sprometheus you mean as in 😂😂😂
I think he meant sinlge
Omg sprometheus is using the bottomless filter again 🙀
Armaan Ilyas haha I usually break it out for these kinds of extraction tests.
Do you find any taste or body difference. I have only used bottomless pf
Whoever drinks the WIKI Lugo espresso might as well drink a pour over or an americano
LiLKev it definitely seems like an Americano, just highly over extracted.
There's no real practical reason to pull a long shot from a medium roast, on a regular 1:2 setup.
Rather than a lungo, I think an Italiano would taste better. It's an Americano with less water. You're already getting a watered down shot with both the lungo and italiano, I'd rather opt out of the bitterness the lungo brings, depending on the coffee of course.
An Italiano is probably the closest I've gotten to something resembling filter coffee using espresso. It's probably no what lungo drinkers are looking for though. They probably like the higher extraction.
Ricky Ng yeah I think a lot of people go for a long black, which is basically just adding a bit of hot water to your espresso. A baby Americano so to speak. Haha.
@@Sprometheus I've tried tweaking traditional Americanos for quite some time. With the large amount of water usually added, the end result was bland and sometimes dry when drinking it. Luckily reddit doesn't disappoint with constant advice.
What about brew a normal espresso and add hot water to it. I know that's more americano than lungo but let's be honest,. Are people that drink lungo even gonna know the difference? 😀
Luben Z it’s pretty common to do that, if it’s just a couple ounces of hot water it’s actually called a long black. I may have to do a video on that in the future.
This question is rather contemptous. It suggests that lungo drinkers have inferior tastebuds. They will know the difference! Oh yes they will!
I was so confused when you said Wonderstate while holding the Kickapoo bag, but then I actually saw the caption and looked into it. First espresso sounded tasty 😋
Coffee Pilgrim haha yeah. They’ve totally changed their name, but haven’t launched their new bags yet.
Hey, I usually enjoy your videos. Today there is something that does not add up. Wikipedia's info is in MILILITERS NOT GRAMS... 1 kilogram of coffee does not equal liter of coffee, THIS IS ONLY FOR WATER!!!
You're right, but in reality it doesn't really matter for coffee because it's density is so close to the density of water. Coffee is about 1000.9 g/L where water is that 1000 g/L. So effectively, you can assume that 1 kilo of coffee is a liter because of how close in density water and coffee are (www.aqua-calc.com/page/density-table/substance/beverages-coma-and-blank-coffee-coma-and-blank-brewed-coma-and-blank-espresso-coma-and-blank-restaurant-prepared)
A lungo should take 20 seconds or so mate. It needs a courser grind then an espresso. Anything higher and it's not a lungo.
Nice 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks for watching!
From my personal experience a faster flow rate for method 2 can produce really good results - maybe a 30-35 second shot with the 1-3 ratio.
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Coffee doesn't play me any music, or grow flowers for me. Same with alcohol. What is this mass psychosis you all speak of?
L1p
I want to try the hybrid method on my Flair, any starting suggestions for shot time with 16 g dose?
I would stick to the 25-30 range regardless of dose.
Classic/Signature or Pro? I've always found that the smaller diameter Classic/Signature requires a coarser grind compared to the normal 58mm portafilter. Therefore, to achieve the proper extraction with the Flair the brew time needs to be a bit longer.
Kevin Severs with the Flair regardless of model, I tend to aim for the same timeline. Just make adjustments to the grind to do that based on diameter and depths of the Flair portafilter.
@@Sprometheus Interesting. I've found if I grind coarse enough to be in the 25-30 second range I'm always underextracting. Around 35-40 seems to be the sweet spot for me. I think with the coarser grind you need more contact time for equivalent extraction.
Kevin Severs everyone’s tastes is different, and often times grinders vary quite a bit. If it isn’t broken though, don’t fix it. Just make adjustments as needed.
*click* Noice
@3:55 66.6g yield yoikes
Haha I honestly didn’t even notice that until I was in editing.
Hail Satan
First
Fabian Lee I think someone may have beat you to it... haha
The Real Sprometheus sadly it seems so.
First!
Naif Alqhtani yessir!
Too much talking . To the point !
Habeeb Omer abubaker ELNOUR
Sudani