Best maintained Aston ever? Amazingly clean and everything looks like new. Your climate is the best for cars. Great video. You are making every AM owner now worry about their cats.
Thanks for the kind words. The benefits of a California car are real. 17 years old and looks close to new under the skin. There was so much chatter in the forums and groups about this condition, I wanted to learn all I could about it and share so we can better understand. All this is a lot of noise about some very fringe conditions, so we have to keep perspective this isn't an epidemic, and if you just have the car well maintained Primary CAT failure isn't going to be an issue. Thanks for watching!
I have a DB9 that suffered cat ingestion in the front left bank. In scoping the cats, the tops looked fine aside from a quarter-size hole in the top of the front one. When I scoped them from the bottom, they looked like melted chocolate. I would highly recommend that anyone concerned with cat ingestion scope the bottoms of the cats as well, as the damage seems to start from the bottom and work its way up.
@@Aston1936 The damage wasn't actually too severe. Seized piston rings in 7, 8 and 9. I was able to pull the left head with the engine still in the car. Cylinder tolerances were within spec. New rings and pistons and lots of cleaning. Car is back together but now I have to work my way through a bunch of faults which is turning out to be more of a pain than the cat ingestion lol.
Thanks for the video Steve... My Vantage is a V8 but i have always been curious about this issue. Now I understand why the engine can suck back the debris from the cat.
Just wanted to thank you for all the work that goes into producing these videos. Extremely educational and your approach is perfect to connect with your audience. Very much appreciated!
Thanks Jim. I probably has 20+ hours into that video. I laugh to myself when I realize its 20x more time than just doing the actual task if I was alone in the shop. Hobbies are a labor or love. Thanks for watching!
Hah! I am just a hobbyist with the experiences of my one car. It is nice to have other knowledge sponsors like Mike that are willing to share their time with me (and therefore all of us). Thanks for watching!
I was a bit paranoid about this on my 2005 DB9 and I’ve had Achilles heel issues on other brands of cars. Bamford Rose did the primary cat removal whilst they were servicing the car and some other work. I had high flow secondary cats fitted and a 3 stage exhaust switch too. What a difference!! Epic switchable sound, more power with a smoother delivery (Mike calls it uncorking) and peace of mind. It’s also a big selling point when I hopefully upgrade. Well worth the money. If I’m ever lucky enough to get a DBS or Vanquish, I’ll be getting BR to do the same exhaust work to it too.
Hmm, would that be a Porsche IMS bearing you are alluding to? Fixed a few of those too. Great to hear you got the full Bamford Rose experience. Jealous! Thanks for watching.
@@Aston1936 Hi Steve, had a look at mine interestingly the 7 to 12 sensors came out very easily from above on a RHD 1 to 6 also easily accessed from above. On the AMDS i showed a slight misfire on cyl 12 but thankfully all cat's look ok though i will be removing them come this winter so ill take a video of it. I think i can get the headers out with out cutting them by supporting the engine from above (a bit of fabrication required) and just loosening off the sub frame and other obstructions, this will be the side project to the clutch replacement/upgrade ill be doing. Cheers Peter
Oh shit, I can't believe I watched this all the way through, chewed my finger ends to the bone with fear and nerves, and then realised my DB7 V12 doesn't have primary cats like the DB9! 😆 Do me a favour and add a DB7 to your stable, so us owners can get insightful model specific videos like this.
You have inspired me to do that inspection. With your instructional video I reckon I could do that and who doesn't want an excuse to buy a decent borescope!
Exceptional video Steve. Between Mike (Bamford Rose) and your information, we DIY Aston maintainers have half a chance of keeping our cars in good health. Living in Australia I’ve also been struggling with how I can perform a primary CAT delete, as access to anyone who can remove the downstream Lambda monitoring is not possible. I had also been wondering if relocating the same Lambda sensors to beyond the secondary CATs would work. Following Mike’s comment, I am now more confident in this approach. I look forward to any real world feedback on this method. Thanks for all of your hard work 👍🙌
Thanks for the Kudos. At some point I am likely going to try and tackle this, and since my car is in California I have to keep at least one set of CATs and sensors in place, so I will be trying to move it all downstream to the secondary CAT position. It won't be this year though. Maybe I'll get a chance to travel to the UK and spend some time in Mike's shop and learn the process first hand, then spread the word. And maybe a tour along the North Coast 500 if I can find a loaner Aston along the way! Thanks for watching.
@@Aston1936 if we could send Mike our ECU to reprogram, removal of the primary Cats without having to refit the secondaries would be my ultimate outcome. We are certainly missing our annual trips to the UK. We usually attend Goodwood Revival, do some touring and call into Gaydon to catch up with friends. Maybe next year?
Now every BAT listed Aston Martin V12 is going to need primary CAT pictures in addition to the ubiquitous cold start video - LOL Regardless nicely done. Curious though whether the AM evolved and improved the coil packs over time?
Hah - you are probably right! Honestly if I was buying a V12 car now, I'd review for current misfire condition with AMDS (to know if I had to fork out the $$$ to change the coil packs), I'd inspect the condition of the CATs (like in this video) and then do the tick of death warm test. All this is a lot of noise about some very fringe conditions, so we have to keep perspective this isn't an epidemic, and if you just have the car well maintained Primary CAT failure isn't going to be an issue. Regarding the coil pack design, I don't think it evolved. That's a good question to explore somehow in a future video. Thanks for watching!
@@Aston1936 the later coils have a third wire which I presume will help ? Seems like all car makers have coil pack problems, it’s just that we have 12 of them ! 😂
Hi Steve like you I was scared about this. My car is a 2005 DB9 with 17,000 miles. I spoke to McGurk Aston Martin in the UK who are an Aston specialist like Bamford Rose. The owner there said he had sold 100s of V12 cars over the years and only ever had ONE issue with Cats. His view was that you would need to run the car for a long time misfiring before any risk of potential damage. Great video though
Agreed that as noted for a well maintained car serviced by someone watching for a misfire situation this shouldn't be an issue. It will be a car where an owner (knowingly or not) just thinks 'servicing' is changing the oil, and neglects having a thorough inspection done each year to spot the onset of a misfire. Thanks for watching!
Now you know how to get in for a peek to see how they are. Best of all, just monitor your cars condition for any signs of misfire developing at each annual service. Thanks for watching!
Hello steve and thanks for another excellent video, ive been waiting for you to do primary decat , i know you will do an excellent job and accompanying video will be an invaluable aid for all us wanting to do this potentially 25k saving job to our cars.
Great video! I am thinking to replace my headers with the velocity Ap ones. Would love to see you tackle huge job. Keep up the fantastic job and video’s!
Removing my Primary CATs is somewhere on the horizon for me. It will be a considerable task as you note. My intention would be to fit a high flow performance CAT where the secondary is, but also address the issue of the O2 sensors and emission monitoring at the same time. I might roll it into a Stage 2 performance upgrade with new exhaust camshafts, ECU upgrade, and a change over to Bilstein dampers. Just takes money, time and determination. Thanks for watching!
@@Aston1936 is there an already made exhaust cam shaft to cancel the EGR or it has to be custom made ? … thanks for the video and for answering the comments .. I have a 2009 DBS and misfired in 2014 .. I have changed the coils and plugs and started to misfire again in 2021 .. its due to replace them again but I was thinking of replacing the header and the exhaust cams as well Thanks again, I watch all your informative videos
Great video! Go on, delete those primary cats, shift the monitor post underfloor and get cat protection fuelling set-point removed. Maybe a before and after dyno run? Better still equal length Bamford headers!
Hi Steve and many thanks again, you are spoiling us recently with many great stuff ! One question : is there a way to reprogram the Ecu so as to lower the threshold for engine light such that instead of being based on emission level it becomes based on « acceptable » frequency of misfires ? I was also wondering if, in case some loose ceramic particles are present during inspection, vacuuming them out and solving the misfire issue would help keeping the whole engine running ? Maybe a subject for next expert Mike chat ? Cheers
Hi Arthur - that's an interesting question. I don't know of a way to lower the triggering thresholds, but I'd speculate that those few that have found a way to tinker in the ECU code could certainly tweak it. If they can defeat the alarm all together, they can probably adjust its trigger level. I think if you were to find loose ceramic particles you are in deep trouble. Those chunks would have to be bigger than the matrix grid opening, so that's pretty severe. A yes to vacuuming them out, but what's next should be a full inspection of the engine bores and looking for the conditions leading to the failure in the first place. As always, thanks for watching.
How to avoid the errors p420 and P430 I did not understand we just cable the same way the upper stream sensors to the lower stream sensors? Is this correct ?
Hi Steve, In the video Mike touched on primary Cat delete keeping the "upstream" O2 sensor and extending the O2 sensor with wiring. Where would these be relocated to? I have secondary Cat delete pipes and as with the original there are no O2 sensors. Would it entail putting in place a secondary cat with O2 sensor downstream of the catalyst?
Yes. Mike's idea was I think to have a cat in the secondary position (high flow performance cat?) and then add a O2 sensor bung down stream of it. Then just extend the cable for the sensor to reach it. Thanks for watching!
Great Video! Friend of mine actually had an engine failure due to backflow… I am scared that this can happen to me, too, few questions: I was told that removing 2nd cats will reduce the backflow and help avoiding general failures - what do you think? Another - apart of AMDS, what could you recommend to read misfires at home? Thanks!!
Sorry to hear about the friends engine demise. Removing the secondary would reduce backpressure in certain conditions. Its a nice upgrade on its own regardless. You can monitor for misfires using an ODBII scan tool like a Foxwell NT530 or a Thinkware Thinkdiag. A full AMDS is of course the best possible tool for the job, but typically only a dealer or specialist will have one. Thanks for watching!
Best maintained Aston ever? Amazingly clean and everything looks like new. Your climate is the best for cars. Great video. You are making every AM owner now worry about their cats.
Thanks for the kind words. The benefits of a California car are real. 17 years old and looks close to new under the skin. There was so much chatter in the forums and groups about this condition, I wanted to learn all I could about it and share so we can better understand. All this is a lot of noise about some very fringe conditions, so we have to keep perspective this isn't an epidemic, and if you just have the car well maintained Primary CAT failure isn't going to be an issue. Thanks for watching!
I have a DB9 that suffered cat ingestion in the front left bank. In scoping the cats, the tops looked fine aside from a quarter-size hole in the top of the front one. When I scoped them from the bottom, they looked like melted chocolate. I would highly recommend that anyone concerned with cat ingestion scope the bottoms of the cats as well, as the damage seems to start from the bottom and work its way up.
Thanks for sharing your experience. Damn, that's some bad news though. Total engine rebuild ahead? Thanks for watching.
@@Aston1936 The damage wasn't actually too severe. Seized piston rings in 7, 8 and 9. I was able to pull the left head with the engine still in the car. Cylinder tolerances were within spec. New rings and pistons and lots of cleaning. Car is back together but now I have to work my way through a bunch of faults which is turning out to be more of a pain than the cat ingestion lol.
Thanks for the video Steve... My Vantage is a V8 but i have always been curious about this issue. Now I understand why the engine can suck back the debris from the cat.
Ya, its an insidious little issue that has only the smallest possibility of happening, just a big consequence if it does. Thanks for watching!
@@Aston1936 Thank you for making this and all the interesting videos.
Just wanted to thank you for all the work that goes into producing these videos. Extremely educational and your approach is perfect to connect with your audience. Very much appreciated!
Thanks Jim. I probably has 20+ hours into that video. I laugh to myself when I realize its 20x more time than just doing the actual task if I was alone in the shop. Hobbies are a labor or love. Thanks for watching!
Great collaboration going on between Mike and Steve. Keep these videos coming. Maybe you'll open a BR franchise for North America?
Hah! I am just a hobbyist with the experiences of my one car. It is nice to have other knowledge sponsors like Mike that are willing to share their time with me (and therefore all of us). Thanks for watching!
Great info especially in explaining EGR method with timing!
I was a bit paranoid about this on my 2005 DB9 and I’ve had Achilles heel issues on other brands of cars. Bamford Rose did the primary cat removal whilst they were servicing the car and some other work. I had high flow secondary cats fitted and a 3 stage exhaust switch too. What a difference!! Epic switchable sound, more power with a smoother delivery (Mike calls it uncorking) and peace of mind. It’s also a big selling point when I hopefully upgrade. Well worth the money. If I’m ever lucky enough to get a DBS or Vanquish, I’ll be getting BR to do the same exhaust work to it too.
Hmm, would that be a Porsche IMS bearing you are alluding to? Fixed a few of those too. Great to hear you got the full Bamford Rose experience. Jealous! Thanks for watching.
Another great video Steve, I have just kitted up to inspect my cats on my DBS this week, it will be interesting.
Cool - I hope this helps with the project. Would be interesting to hear what you find. Thanks for watching!
@@Aston1936 Hi Steve, had a look at mine interestingly the 7 to 12 sensors came out very easily from above on a RHD 1 to 6 also easily accessed from above. On the AMDS i showed a slight misfire on cyl 12 but thankfully all cat's look ok though i will be removing them come this winter so ill take a video of it. I think i can get the headers out with out cutting them by supporting the engine from above (a bit of fabrication required) and just loosening off the sub frame and other obstructions, this will be the side project to the clutch replacement/upgrade ill be doing.
Cheers
Peter
Great video, thanks! I’ve got an 04 Vanquish, always good to get as much info as you can👍🏻
i just dropped off my car at Bamford Rose for a primary de-cat , so excited !
I'm so jealous! I don't have a resource like that here. Wish I could pop over to Bamford Rose and learn a few things. Thanks for watching!
@@Aston1936 I think he has spare prepared manifold sets ready to go, get him to send you a set
Oh shit, I can't believe I watched this all the way through, chewed my finger ends to the bone with fear and nerves, and then realised my DB7 V12 doesn't have primary cats like the DB9! 😆 Do me a favour and add a DB7 to your stable, so us owners can get insightful model specific videos like this.
You have inspired me to do that inspection. With your instructional video I reckon I could do that and who doesn't want an excuse to buy a decent borescope!
Pleased that it's inspired you. And who doesn't need a new tool!
Exceptional video Steve. Between Mike (Bamford Rose) and your information, we DIY Aston maintainers have half a chance of keeping our cars in good health. Living in Australia I’ve also been struggling with how I can perform a primary CAT delete, as access to anyone who can remove the downstream Lambda monitoring is not possible. I had also been wondering if relocating the same Lambda sensors to beyond the secondary CATs would work. Following Mike’s comment, I am now more confident in this approach. I look forward to any real world feedback on this method. Thanks for all of your hard work 👍🙌
Thanks for the Kudos. At some point I am likely going to try and tackle this, and since my car is in California I have to keep at least one set of CATs and sensors in place, so I will be trying to move it all downstream to the secondary CAT position. It won't be this year though. Maybe I'll get a chance to travel to the UK and spend some time in Mike's shop and learn the process first hand, then spread the word. And maybe a tour along the North Coast 500 if I can find a loaner Aston along the way! Thanks for watching.
@@Aston1936 if we could send Mike our ECU to reprogram, removal of the primary Cats without having to refit the secondaries would be my ultimate outcome. We are certainly missing our annual trips to the UK. We usually attend Goodwood Revival, do some touring and call into Gaydon to catch up with friends. Maybe next year?
Now every BAT listed Aston Martin V12 is going to need primary CAT pictures in addition to the ubiquitous cold start video - LOL Regardless nicely done. Curious though whether the AM evolved and improved the coil packs over time?
Hah - you are probably right! Honestly if I was buying a V12 car now, I'd review for current misfire condition with AMDS (to know if I had to fork out the $$$ to change the coil packs), I'd inspect the condition of the CATs (like in this video) and then do the tick of death warm test. All this is a lot of noise about some very fringe conditions, so we have to keep perspective this isn't an epidemic, and if you just have the car well maintained Primary CAT failure isn't going to be an issue. Regarding the coil pack design, I don't think it evolved. That's a good question to explore somehow in a future video. Thanks for watching!
@@Aston1936 the later coils have a third wire which I presume will help ? Seems like all car makers have coil pack problems, it’s just that we have 12 of them ! 😂
Hi Steve like you I was scared about this. My car is a 2005 DB9 with 17,000 miles. I spoke to McGurk Aston Martin in the UK who are an Aston specialist like Bamford Rose. The owner there said he had sold 100s of V12 cars over the years and only ever had ONE issue with Cats. His view was that you would need to run the car for a long time misfiring before any risk of potential damage. Great video though
Agreed that as noted for a well maintained car serviced by someone watching for a misfire situation this shouldn't be an issue. It will be a car where an owner (knowingly or not) just thinks 'servicing' is changing the oil, and neglects having a thorough inspection done each year to spot the onset of a misfire. Thanks for watching!
Super helpful. I just got a 2015 Rapide S with
Now you know how to get in for a peek to see how they are. Best of all, just monitor your cars condition for any signs of misfire developing at each annual service. Thanks for watching!
Hello steve and thanks for another excellent video, ive been waiting for you to do primary decat , i know you will do an excellent job and accompanying video will be an invaluable aid for all us wanting to do this potentially 25k saving job to our cars.
Thanks Chris - I appreciate the kudos. I primary decat will likely be part of my future plans as well.
Great video! I am thinking to replace my headers with the velocity Ap ones. Would love to see you tackle huge job.
Keep up the fantastic job and video’s!
Removing my Primary CATs is somewhere on the horizon for me. It will be a considerable task as you note. My intention would be to fit a high flow performance CAT where the secondary is, but also address the issue of the O2 sensors and emission monitoring at the same time. I might roll it into a Stage 2 performance upgrade with new exhaust camshafts, ECU upgrade, and a change over to Bilstein dampers. Just takes money, time and determination. Thanks for watching!
@@Aston1936 is there an already made exhaust cam shaft to cancel the EGR or it has to be custom made ? … thanks for the video and for answering the comments .. I have a 2009 DBS and misfired in 2014 .. I have changed the coils and plugs and started to misfire again in 2021 .. its due to replace them again but I was thinking of replacing the header and the exhaust cams as well
Thanks again, I watch all your informative videos
Excellent explanation, thanks!
Great video! Go on, delete those primary cats, shift the monitor post underfloor and get cat protection fuelling set-point removed. Maybe a before and after dyno run? Better still equal length Bamford headers!
Thank you very much, 🥂
Absolutely brilliant Steve ! Love videos like this. Cheers
Thanks 👍
Great content as always, Steve! Thank you!
Thanks for the kudos, and for watching!
Hi Steve and many thanks again, you are spoiling us recently with many great stuff ! One question : is there a way to reprogram the Ecu so as to lower the threshold for engine light such that instead of being based on emission level it becomes based on « acceptable » frequency of misfires ? I was also wondering if, in case some loose ceramic particles are present during inspection, vacuuming them out and solving the misfire issue would help keeping the whole engine running ? Maybe a subject for next expert Mike chat ? Cheers
Hi Arthur - that's an interesting question. I don't know of a way to lower the triggering thresholds, but I'd speculate that those few that have found a way to tinker in the ECU code could certainly tweak it. If they can defeat the alarm all together, they can probably adjust its trigger level. I think if you were to find loose ceramic particles you are in deep trouble. Those chunks would have to be bigger than the matrix grid opening, so that's pretty severe. A yes to vacuuming them out, but what's next should be a full inspection of the engine bores and looking for the conditions leading to the failure in the first place. As always, thanks for watching.
How to avoid the errors p420 and P430 I did not understand we just cable the same way the upper stream sensors to the lower stream sensors? Is this correct ?
Hi Steve, In the video Mike touched on primary Cat delete keeping the "upstream" O2 sensor and extending the O2 sensor with wiring. Where would these be relocated to? I have secondary Cat delete pipes and as with the original there are no O2 sensors. Would it entail putting in place a secondary cat with O2 sensor downstream of the catalyst?
Yes. Mike's idea was I think to have a cat in the secondary position (high flow performance cat?) and then add a O2 sensor bung down stream of it. Then just extend the cable for the sensor to reach it. Thanks for watching!
Great Video! Friend of mine actually had an engine failure due to backflow… I am scared that this can happen to me, too, few questions: I was told that removing 2nd cats will reduce the backflow and help avoiding general failures - what do you think? Another - apart of AMDS, what could you recommend to read misfires at home? Thanks!!
Sorry to hear about the friends engine demise. Removing the secondary would reduce backpressure in certain conditions. Its a nice upgrade on its own regardless. You can monitor for misfires using an ODBII scan tool like a Foxwell NT530 or a Thinkware Thinkdiag. A full AMDS is of course the best possible tool for the job, but typically only a dealer or specialist will have one. Thanks for watching!
They make a borescope for smartphones
I vote we make Steve an English Lord, Lord Aston will be his name he will be known by from this day forth.
Hah, that would be fun. I'd settle for a loaner Aston and a week off to do the North Coast 500 someday. Thanks for watching!