Italian Sounds A Bit Like Swedish (And Why That's Interesting)
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- Опубліковано 9 тра 2024
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LingoLizard video which inspired this one: • Japanese sounds a litt...
Transcription of "åker" was incorrect; the first vowel should have been /o:/ (thanks kvd for pointing that out)
My video, in part, deals with historical linguistics. Please bear in mind that this is from the mainstream understanding of these Proto-languages as of January 2023. Ideas about reconstructed languages cannot be taken as absolute fact.
Thanks to my patrons!!
Patreon: www.patreon.com/user?u=73482298
Chapters:
0:00 - Vowel Sounds
0:49 - Ad
2:07 - Vowel/Consonant Similarity
4:40 - Differences
5:40 - Credits
Written and created by me
Art by kvd102
Music by me.
Translations:
Ivan - German
Дзишу Фурыч - Russian
Alberto - Italian
Jaco - Spanish
Leeuwe van den Heuvel - Dutch
Sean P - Portuguese (Brazil)
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#linguistics #italian #swedish
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Proverbs 13:11
Good for you
congrats on becoming a real youtuber man
Cool
I skipped the ad
Are you okay with that?
remember kids, opinions are only opinions except when K Klein has one then it becomes a FACT
"My opinions are correct by virtue of being my opinions."
holy hell u play tetrio
@@thatnhoxiu I'm surprised so many people are recognizing it tbh
@@thatnhoxiu I don't know tetrio; is it purposeful that the tetris bricks form an Among Us figure?
@@falkland_pinguin lol u can make the among us shape with any tetris client. tetrio is a place where u can play competitive tetris. search pros like diao, czsmall, doremy, and some others if u wanna see some gameplay.
I like his uncontrollable tint of giggling when advertising
their*
@@ASocialistTransGirl thank you for the clarification!! 😁
@@syaif7292 you would’ve been fine without it
@@ASocialistTransGirl Who cares, he sounds like man, he is most likely a man
@@Orincaby you're on a linguistics channel and can't handle they/them pronouns?
I speak swedish at a comfortable fluency, and I have NEVER thought that it sounds like italian.
This video opened my eyes to how non speakers can hear similarities that I am blind to.
I speak neither Swedish nor Italian, and I have also NEVER thought they sounded at all alike.
*opened your ears
I'm a swede and I haven't thought about it either
Maybe it depends on dialect aswell, here in Falun we don't really make distinction in consonat length, so that part is something I have never considered, if anything I'd say our dialect sound much more like Albanian than Italian, with the dental fricative dh and the soft none rolled r rolling back into the vowal that comes before it making it sound like we mumble half the sentence
Italian here: never saw the similarities either. I guess it's kind of like Russian and Portuguese.
I did notice one extra similarity between the two, the flag of Åland has gold on it and the flag of San Marino also has a tiny bit of gold on its crown!
Hello there
As a native speaker of Italian I can confirm we are explicitly taught about gemination of consonants in school, but most speakers are not aware that there is a distinction between short and long vowels in the language, so it's quite interesting. Funnily enough, I also speak Swedish to a B2 level and I never, ever felt they sounded remotely alike! Great job on the video.
The voice quivering with barely suppressed laughter during the ad 💀
as a native italian this is indeed very interesting
i've never heard of this comparison before but it's very neat to see it analyzed, i definitely learned something new today
I live in Sweden and I’d say I speak the language pretty fluently, my pronunciation is mostly good but sometimes a bit off, especially because of the pitch accent. I guess I’m used to speaking rather than singing. Back when my accent was worse, I was reading an excerpt from a book and trying to get that melody and one native speaker said it sound like a “fin italiensk dialekt” haha
There’s also the cultural status of italian as the language of opera that gives it an air of musicality
As an Italian, I can see (and hear) why in Italy they only teach consonant gemination whereas in Swedish they only teach vowel length. Vissa and visa still sound like they have a geminate [s:] to my Italian hear. And it's not because the voicing of /s/ to [z] between vowels because I don't do that. It also happens with Spanish, it seems to me that they always say geminated consonants because their syllables as a whole tend to have the same length. Also, a lot of Italians don't lengthen their vowels (especially older people in the North) so it's definitely more important to use geminated consonants than vowel length, obviously.
As an Italian I agree, and I’m too tired to write better what you did already, even if I wanted a ❤ from k Klein
Your channel name sounds like something germanic for "tongue of the forbidden lands". Is that a conlang of yours or something?
@@falkland_pinguin Yes, I really should change that...
As an Italian, I have to admit that I started to notice this only recently. But I think that I know the reason why we all talk about double consonants and not shorter or longer vowels: when kids learn how to spell in school, they often struggle with double consonants. Therefore, teachers insist on saying that if the sound is stronger, you write the letter twice (and they would make some examples so that they see the difference, like the one you did, "canne" and "cane"). If they told the kids about longer vowels, they would surely write double vowels instead (for example "cane" and "caane")
To my Finnish ear (with Swedish around C1~C2) I hear a geminate /s/ in both "vissa" and "visa", and I'd transcribe them in the Finnish orthography as "vissa" and "viissa".
visssa and viissa ;)
Really interesting
I'm italian and I really like finnish and I thought you would ear the same as italians do (cause in this aspect finnish and Italian are pretty similar even tho they are completely far and different languages) but because of the fact you guys write double vowels i was wrong
Really cool
@@Liggliluff Google allows me to "translate your comment to English" and it comes out as "yes and no". What the actual fridge?
@@jansojele289 sina jan pi toki pona anu seme? ni li lon la, wawa a! sitelen tawa pi sona toki li lon e kulupu epiku.
@@falkland_pinguin lon
sina jan pi ma seme?
4:21 yeah that's exactly what happened. As an italian I always thought the only difference was in the consonants and just now I realised the vowels also differ
A few thoughts, as a native finnish speaker I'm really in tune with the lengths of sounds (we have words like tuli, tuuli and tulli which all mean different things) and when you said "visa", it sounded to me like a long consonant still 😂 Short to me would be like how I imagine you say the V in "sova", altho you did bring up the things about stressed syllables being equally long usually, so.
I also speak swedish as a native language but it's the kinda swedish you'd hear in southern Finland. No swedish dialect in Finland that I'm aware of uses pitch accent. Because it's not a thing in finnish I think it got lost as swedish speakers here were more surrounded by finnish. Just a small thing but not all swedish is pitch accented :) Rikssvenska might be but not our beloved muminsvenska :p
vissa visa difference is hard to hear because vissa is almost "overlong" and the difference is subtle. it's there though if you slow down the audio or look at the waveforms
I'm a native Swedish speaker, and I actually thought about this recently (being completely unaware of this "meme") while watching season 2 of White Lotus. I'm not knowledgeable of linguistics, so I cannot explain it, but I feel like the two languages are "phonetically direct" in the same way. Like, it is really easy for me as a Swede to read an Italian word and intuitively know how to pronounce it. English is easy for me as well, but it's much more complex (concerning how spelling relates to pronunciation).
I still don't know if you're lying about the raid shadow legends ad.
Hopefully not, so that K can get the money from the sponsorship
I'd be surprised if he took up over a minute in a 6 minute video for a fake ad 💀
@@jackiecozzie4803 K uses they/them jsyk!
@@rainbowlack omg sorry I had no idea!
I didn't know they were a native Swedish speaker, that's really cool and very helpful for this analysis!
@@LangThoughts can't tell what you're saying, but Cope.
I don't know their gender, thus I use 'they', as its use is for when the subject's gender is unknown.
@@LangThoughts they is used for talking about an unknown party formally.
I mean, I could hear it, I could probably tell you in which region of Sweden he lives in as well. Without much hassle, just due to how he said Visa and Vissa, because that was a type 2a pitch accent, so he lives around the general Stockholm Area. due to his dialect, we can conclude even further distinctions to where he lives. I mean I live in Sweden and me and K Klein sound nothing alike. I have a type 1a pitch accent, and the old form of the type 1a pitch accent, which is extremely regionlocked. To three small regions in southern Sweden. Listerlandet, Morup, and Göinge(Where I'm from). Noticeable features, is total lack of consonants where you'd expect them, most words can be reduced to mostly vowels, Swedish word for 1st person singular Subject aka I, is Jag, but in Scanian it's either Jaw, jæe jæg, and due to consonant drops, it's mostly just Á or Æ. in Scanian Æ and Ä are different, enough, to be 2 unique vowels, I mean by technicality it has to do with vowel rounding. Also the letter Å which exist in Danish and Swedish doesn't exist at all. Instead the diphthong au and the thriphthong aau are used instead. E is pronounced ey, but used to be oi...
The numbers 1 to 10 are...
æt, twau, træe, føyra, feim, seis, sy, autta, nie, tie. compared to Swedish ett, två, tre, fyra, fem, sex, sju, åtta, nio, tio.
I'm Jɛɯish and everything Kɑnye and his ɪlk has said about my pɛople is tɾʊe of them. Total meɗɨa çontɾol, and you will be rʊɨned if you don't ɓend the knɛɛ. I'm not gonna take it anymore!
@@LangThoughts You don't seem well, my friend. Maybe going to the park and resting a bit on the grass would be nice? Just limit you interactions with people for the first few times, it's gonna be great, don't worry.
Time for a trauma dump where I was bullied by a second grade teacher because of the gemination thing!
In grade two, Satan's consort and teacher Vera Nanning took charge of our Swedish classes. We had previously been taught a cool "rule" of spelling: If you see a word with two consonants following a vowel, then that vowel is short. If there is only one consonant, the vowel is long. I thought this was a great thing to learn and took to it immediately. As such, I wrote the word "hadde" on an assignment (Swedish for "had"). Unbeknownst to me, that word *does not follow* this correlation of gemination short vowel, and is actually spelled "hade". Substitute demon Vera proceeded to laugh at me in front of the class and even went so far as to immortalize my 8 year old self's mistake by writing "Kraetyz
Spanish is pretty amazing at pronunciation following spelling, one of the reasons I like the language, but even there you will occasionally get tripped up like this.
reminds me of that itchy feet comic with "portugese sounds like russian"
i think it's similar too in the sense that to someone who speaks neither language is far more likely to find them similar sounding than a speaker of either language is
Portuguese has all those "sh"-sounds, which, at least to my layman ears, makes it sound profoundly different from Spanish. But I wouldn't compare it to Russian, but more to what I, in my layman ways, consider "eastern European languages".
As soon as I saw this vid as a first post in my recommended, I got rather excited. Simply because Your videos are always of excellent quality, interesting and entertainable in other ways, too. Thus am always happy to see new ones, as have watched the old ones, well, lets say more than once, they hold their value and possible-to-get enjoyment very well
it’s both peoples love of meatballs…..
If that were the case, then every language should sound like any other language. Because who doesn't love meatballs?
The undoing of Babel by virtue of the unifying power of meatballs!
Agree
criminally underrated comment
@@lonestarr1490 "Because who doesn't love meatballs?"
Even vegans love meatballs, to the point they try and pass their tofu playdough lumps as "meatballs" 🤣
You've become one of my favorite UA-camrs!! Interesting linguistics content in a concise format. Good stuff!
I think you probably needed to explain Italian a little bit more in this in order to justify the argument. Compared to Iberian Spanish, for example, Italian uses pitch a lot more in stressed syllables, and, depending on the dialectal origin of the speaker, the specific contour of the pitch also matters. It's not a lexical pitch accent (no lexical contrast), but it's closer to it than Spanish, or the even more extreme case of Finnish. I'm not quite sure I know where English falls on the spectrum, but I'd say somewhere between Italian and Spanish.
Because I'm Danish and have heard plenty of both Swedish, Eastern Norwegian, and Italian, I don't think they sound that similar, but I remember as a kid sometimes mixing up Norwegian, Swedish and Italian accents when doing impressions because their differences from my mother tongue were similar.
My guess as to why timing/cadence differences aren't as salient to people when listening to Italian vs Swedish is that they don't have the ability of a native speaker to be able to discern where one phrase begins and the other ends. The other factor is that because Italian actually has vowel length distinctions, unlike Spanish, it becomes harder to notice that it's syllable-timed, -because each syllable isn't exactly as long as the next. Gemination across word borders also complicates this.
And because Swedish has geminated consonants, it becomes harder to notice that it's stress-timed because the gemination has a set duration.
Idk, those are just my thoughts of course.
I think it’d be really cool if K Klein did a video on language outside of verbal expression talking about body language and maybe mentioning Italy’s significant use of it. Just an idea
Edit: apparently the thing about Italians using lots of body language is a myth, sorry if that offended anyone
i have no clue where the stereotype of italians gesturing a lot comes from. same with the one about italians doing that pitch thing
Yeah or maybe sign language that’d be cool
@@moredac2881 yeah just any non verbal communication and I’m not sure how much he knows about stuff like that so it might even be a learning experience for him!
@@enricobianchi4499 oh i genuinely believed that, sorry if that offended you or anyone
@@EeeWoood sign language is verbal 🙃 a uni friend learnt that the hard way when the teacher answered rudely
I like your content, finding your channel is the best thing happened to me this week
This was the best ad integration in the UA-cam history
*almost (nothing can beat Linus' segues)
I would love a video about the whole idea of stress vs syllable times languages! In my linguistics undergraduate class the prof made a huge deal about it being one of the most propagated myths in the field. There is still much debate over whether this distinction actually exists or not, so that‘ll be very interesting to look at!
European Portuguese sounds Slavic.
Castilian Spanish sounds like Modern Greek.
Italian sounds like Swedish.
Now we need French and Romanian or other Romance Languages.
Totally agree about the Portuguese/Slavic comparison. What's up with that, why do they sound similar?
@@sam_ram
Here's a video about it;
ua-cam.com/video/Pik2R46xobA/v-deo.html
@Sam several factors, some of them being nasal vowels, mad vowel reduction, stress timing, dark Ls, palatal(ised) Ls and nasals, postalveolar sibilant frenzy, and some "false friends" like estou/что, dobra/dobry, curva/kurwa.
I'm native portuguese (living in a non-lusophonic country) and my lusophone detector has gone hot on people who turned out to be speaking polish/russian several times.
French is like Danish. French is the black sheep of the romance languages and Danish the black sheep of the Scandinavian languages (not including Finnish)
I am always completely blown away by how Swedish folks can just speak absolutely impeccable, flawless English. I feel so inadequate in comparison, as an American who knows a smattering of languages besides English but none of them super well. 😅
Swedish people need to use English on internet. Otherwise they're almost invisible for everyone except themselves and some foreigners who can speak Swedish. With English, they can reach a much wider audience and so much more available content. Americans don't need that.
If, for example, Spanish was a required grade like Math and English throughout schooling and being introduced in an early grade, as well as having the most popular movies being in Spanish with English subtitles, Spanish being the language of the internet, and Spanish being the international trade language, I think you'd be pretty fluent in Spanish, my friend.
It's interesting that you didn't notice how gemination was paired with vowel length in Swedish. When I learned Swedish (in Sweden from a Swedish teacher) that was one of the first pronunciation rules they taught! And they definitely paired the two in the description.
In fact when you started describing Italian that was I was like: "that sounds a lot like another language I remember... Which was it?" before of course realizing it was Swedish 😆
Så jävla episkt att du blir sponsrad, kan tänka mig att vissa blir sura/kallar dig för en "sellout" men alltså jag är bara fett glad att du kan få lite stålars för att gjöra fantastiska lingvistik videos
This is also how I feel about Greek dialects and Castilian Spanish (which both have similar phonemic inventories), or Amharic and southern Indian languages like Tamil and Kannada (both also have similar rhythmic patterns in speech.)
Great video 👍🏽
As a Hispanophone I still mistake Greek as mumbled Spanish from time to time 😂
That add transition was simply glorious
When first learning Italian gemminated consonants were being demonstrated to me, i believe n and nn as in the video, but the length difference of the preceding vowel was what really stood out to me. In Welsh we significantly, and explicitly, lengthen and shorten vowels, so perhaps just more obvious to my ear.
It's the "Swedish Chef" effect. I'm not even kidding. Most Americans know "Swedish accent" as the one done by Swedish Chef from The Muppets (which arguably sounds faintly Italian) and then every other American actor doing a "Swedish accent" are imitating Swedish Chef instead of an actual Swede.
Slightly a tangent but a funny example of this is in the video game Overwatch where the Swedish character Torbjörn is voiced by an American who is very much doing the Swedish Chef accent. Meanwhile Torbjörn's daughter Brigitte is voiced by an actual Swede which makes the difference VERY stark. This will never cease to annoy me and I will die mad about it.
As soon as he said "legend" my brain was like "no no no no NO NO WAIT WAIT
i think it really just comes down to the musicality for a lot of people. my parents are both long time linguist professors and they know a lot more about this stuff than me, but my moms friend basically studies/teaches the whole area around how a language sounds and how the mouth moves when its spoken. i guess i could ask her about her opinion on it too. whats funny is that my dad is czech and , somehow both him, me and my sister have kind of felt like japanese can sound similar to czech. obviously they have no connection in a language family way, but just the way words are spoken can sometimes be a bit similar. like, its all in the tone.
Tjena!
Jag såg din video om efternamn och undrar om du har något snabbt förslag varifrån mitt efternamn (Windahl) kan ha kommit ifrån.
Tack i förhand!
5:14 I did hear once that stress in Italian is accoustically falling tone so that could be part of it.
Hey K Klein, speaking of Swedish: As a Dane currently living in Sweden, I have been able to make my Swedish sound to some extent convincing and not just like a Dane trying to be understood by Swedes. But I haven’t really learned to use the melodic accents yet, even though I should know where they are through the Danish stød. I know that there are two different accents, but it’s not very easy to find how there are used in Sweden, most examples I found focus on the Norwegian ways. It would be very cool, if you made a video about the Scandinavian pitch accent and how you use it particularly in Swedish and its dialects :)
Stød is fun stuff. Thanks for mentioning it, I probably wouldn't have stumbled across that by chance
Academia cervena has a couple of very useful videos on Swedish pitch accent. Not as entertaining as K Klein, but still.
I'd love a video about Swedish pitch accent as I'm struggling to learn it!
Swede here. I get that it must be really hard if you don't have it in your native language. Personally I struggle with _getting rid of_ of pitch accent when speaking English.
Excellent video as always, love your content, genuinely worth the five hour raid shadow legends ad. Keep it up!
Finnish also has double vowels and double consonants. It's also syllable timed language:
Kissa = cat
Kisa = competition
Kisaa = To competition
Kissaa = To cat
I'm pretty sure the vowel-consonant thing you mentioned first IS what people are talking about when they say they have similar prosody, like a sing-songy sound. I've heard people make the same comment about certain Argentinian Spanish accents which do something similar.
As a German native speaker, thanks to your example I can understand how one can confuse Swedish and Italian, but I garuantee if you do a blind test with me in five minutes I will clearly distinguish the two. Thus I feel I am kind of in the middle thanks to my germanic background. What might also contribute to this is how English native speakers have more romanic words in their language due to francophonisation, modern German retained a lot of the Germanic "originals" and thus I can use a lot more context clues I guess, and conversely English speakers cannot.
Fascinating as always! Native English-speaker here and have learned a bit of both Italian and Swedish and definitely agree that English speakers have a tendency to over pronounce when learning both languages and get distracted by it when learning definitely sound much different once you've been exposed to them for longer. If you carry on over pronouncing, in Swedish of course there's the risk you're saying something with the wrong tone and Italian you can overlook gemination and the type of vowel you use.
"which is what gives that 'machine gun fire' feel to languages like Italian and French'
This perfectly describes what trying to learn Spanish as a native English speaker is like.
As a northern Italian speaker I would like to say that my dialect does, at times, differentiate between unstressed [e] and [ɛ] (I have yet to notice it happen with the "o"s)
I can't think any example right now but I'll try remembering one
Having heard a lot of both, it would never occur to me that anyone could think they were similar. The superficial similarity between Polish and European Portuguese is another matter.
As an italian speaker I agree, they don’t sound alike, but at the same time the system for which there’s gemination is similar I reckon; only I wouldn’t say the vowels as A in “cane” are long, they sound long because they are followed by a single consonant, but it is only in contrast with the geminated counterpart that they sound longer.
gz on the raid ad
When you pronounced "Amazon" with A SCHWA at the end I giggled.
*speaking in a distinctively English-sounding accent* "As a native Swedish speaker..."
Bruh I never would have guessed that lmao
I've always suspected him to be Swedish, from the perfect Swedish, to the suspicious accent. But his account is set to UK.
Edited 23 august 2023
Original message:
I have no compelling reason as to why, but I think that Dutch and Japanese sound similar. I've listened to a large amount of languages being spoken, and if you hear a language enough, you start to get a feel for how its phonemes are realised. And even though Dutch and Japanese don't have that many phonemes in common, their realisation seems fairly similar.
I'm just going by "mouth feel", but trying to pronounce words while trying to adopt a Japanese accent feels similar to pronouncing the same phonemes with a Dutch accent. I can't speak Japanese well so perhaps that's just because I'm bad at it, but the same is true when I turn things around; listening to someone speaking Japanese and speaking the same phonemes with a Dutch accent ends up _sounding_ similar to me, too.
This has nothing to do with grammar, and it has very little to do with the phonemes themselves, or even with prosody. There's a pattern to how phonemes are realised in every language, every dialect. It's hard to quantify those micro-qualities so I could be completely off, but it feels as though they're even more similar for Dutch and Japanese than e.g. Dutch and German, whose accents are essentially both native to me.
EDIT 23 august:
I managed produce some evidence in support of this hypothesis, though it seems that I was slightly wrong. It's not Dutch that's similar to Japanese, but Low Saxon. And perhaps the similarities are more basic than I thought. I used AI to reach this conclusion. Nowadays, AI voice models are really quite good. And there's no shortage of Japanese models out there, which gives me plenty of opportunity to find out how they handle different languages.
Models that don't handle English well often are still good at Dutch, but only Low Saxon dialects. Furthermore, all models that do handle Franconian well don't actually end up simply speaking Dutch with a Japanese accent. They speak Dutch with a Low Saxon accent. My native dialect is strongly Low Saxon so I can tell very easily whether someone is speaking naturally or not, and the degree to which the AI sounds native even with Franconian input is uncanny.
The same is actually true for German. The AI trends away from Hochdeutsch towards a more North Low German or Westphalian accent.
I still don't quite know what's going on, but I hope to uncover more.
As someone who tried learning both and actually learned Italian, I can say that I was taught both of the differences, which helps a lot to sound less like an L2 speaker
OUR BOY BECAME A REAL UA-camR LES GOOO
Wait you're swedish? I never guessed from the accent. Neat. Har det gött.
Oh..
I hear it the second you speak Italian words.
I watched a raid sponsorship all the way through for the first time, merely because it was introduced with the line "i'm not even kidding".
congratulations on becoming a real youtuber!
Coming from Finnish, which distinguishes length for vowels *and* consonants separately, the Swedish words sound to me like /vis:a/ and /vi:s:a/, that is, the /s/ seems geminated in both cases.
Hey bro, could you make a video on cases and how they came to be? Don't they make a language a lot harder to learn? (I speak a language with cases but just recently realized how hard to learn they are)
I'd love a video about cases, too! The question if it makes languages harder to learn kind of doesn't belong here, though. Learning languages later in life is significantly harder than learning one's mothertongue, so there are things that naturally arise in speaking communities that are ok to learn for native speakers and can make language more efficient, but hard to grasp if one didn't grow up with it. Languages don't have a natural tendency to be easy to learn for foreigners, for all I know. It just isn't important for communication within the native community, which is the most influential factor in most languages' development.
I was not expecting raidy shady to appear
Now this video comes as kind of a surprise, given that I'm Italian and I'm learning Swedish. I agree with you that Swedish doesn't sound at all like my native tounge and I too was shocked when I found out that we lengthen our vowels when followed by short consonants, while I can say for certain that all Italians do notice gemination (we say that they're "double" ("doppie") consonants)
It's neat to see that you use a word with a geminate to refer to geminates. I always like these coincidences :)
While the two languages are not necessarily similar by themselves, a lot of their similarities shine through when persons from either language try to speak a third language.
I'm a Dane and often frequent an international communion where I get to eat with a lot of foreign students. One girl there spoke Danish with a particular accent that I originally thought was Swedish, but when I asked her she said she was from Italy, and it turns out that I wasn't the first to make the assumption.
Tl;Dr while they might not sound the same, their accent might do when speaking Danish. I conclude this from one example.
as a fluent speaker of swedish, i cant help but notice a difference in the way i pronounce my front vowels compared to you- my long /i:/ variant always comes out more mid high, something like [ɨ̟:]. i always assumed that was kinda the base form since i picked it up from my surroundings, but seemingly no- probably more of a dialectal difference, but i dunno
As an Italian that went once to Sweden... I don't actually remember a lot from the time I spent there so I can't really say😅
As someone who works on tones, both Swedish and Italian stresses can be realised with a falling tone contour and that is indeed phonetically similar.
"of course this is completely subjective, but... I'm right!"
LOL, I use that sentence alot
I never thought about this, but it’s quite true. As an English speaker here are my two cents: Stress timing vs syllable timing doesn’t really make a difference to my ear in this case because the combination of CCV and CV syllables produces a wobbling egg rhythm in both languages. The intonation thing comes from the fact that Italian seems to have a sharp falling intonation on the last stressed syllable in a declarative sentence or a Wh- question, while Swedish has similar sharp falls on intonation, just more frequently and randomly. These stick out because sharp falling intonation (whose extreme example is 4th tone in Mandarin, question tone in Northern Vietnamese) is only used for commands and like, scolding people in English.
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4:26 yes, it's the same for Italians the other way around
4:28 yes, it's the same for italians too! most italians think of double vs single consonants, people are rarely aware of the long-short distinction, also probably because it only happens on stressed syllables
In che senso avviene solo nelle sillabe accentate?
Canne e cane non hanno accenti
@@jansojele289 l'allungamento delle vocali avviene solo nelle sillabe accentate (càne), mentre, se ricordo bene, nello svedese può avvenire ovunque.
@@paolob.5667 Ce perché cane dovrebbe essere accentata ma visa no?
È una cosa completamente arbitraria o non sto capendo?
@@jansojele289 quello che sto dicendo è che il sistema di lunghezze vocaliche, se ricordo bene, in svedese non ha nulla a che fare con l'accento, mentre in italiano sono lunghe solo le vocali accentate
Your pronunciation of cane was perfect! Canne was a bit strange but 99% better of every non native speaker on youtube!
As an anecdote, I have noticed that when I try to do a fake Italian accent, it sounds like my fake Swedish accent. As a background, I am a Finn, so I'm much more confident in my fake Swedish accent than my fake Italian accent.
as an italian speaker i feel like the "musicality" aspect comes from italian just having more vowel sounds per word(?)
like say,compare a language usually associated with being "harsh" and "agressive" like german with a language like italian that is associated with being "soft" and "melodic"- german has more consonant sounds and italy more vowel ones
so it naturally sounds softer and more melodic cus..yk..you can't "really" sing consonants.
also the whole long vowel concept is news to me so you are right about that not being thaught in schools
i'm italian and i was confused af when you were explaining consonants and vowels italian lmao
Never thought about Swedish sounding like Italian.I think it's more the similarities in the way sounds are arranged into words which make some languages sounds similar rather than sound inventory.Claiming that Japanese sounds like Russian is even weirder:)))) I literally never met someone saying that except except LingoLizard, but I heard people saying Japanese sounds like Italian and I also think Japanese and Italian sounds similar because they are both syllable-timed, have double consonants and mostly opened syllables (CV).
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the only distantly related languages that sound similar that i can think of is European spanish and greek, many Spanish speakers say greek speakers sound like theyre speaking spanish when heard from afar, and vice versa
I've noticed that English speakers almost sound Italian (to me a Swedish speaker) when they are doing a swedish accent. I don't know how or if this relates.
That's obviously nothing to do with the fact that we were taught how to do the Swedish accent by the Muppet Show...
As a native italian speaker, I can confirm that until I studied some phonology I didn't notice that the /a/ in "cane" was longer than the /a/ in "canne", since what we hear as phonemic is gemination. But since the first time I noticed it I cannot unhear it.
Idk why but I always assumed you were a native British English speaker.
Also I have never thought of Swedish and Italian sounding alike. If I had to say any non-romance lang sounded like Italian my answer would be Zulu.
Can Swedish have a double consonant/long vowel outside of the stressed syllable? Because Italian can have geminated consonants anywhere between two vowels, but only has a phonetic long vowel in stressed open syllables and not if it's the last syllable. So the vowel length and consonant gemination doesn't always go hand-in-hand.
That's the reason why we see the consonant gemination as being phonemic in Italian and Swedes correctly see the vowel length as phonemic (also because the vowel quality changes...)
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@@joemiller947 hahaha well, that's a first :')
Wait but doesn't Dutch also have gemination after short vowels and single consonants after long vowels? Like in ballen [al.l] meaning "balls" and balen [a:.l] meaning something like "too bad" (or something like to be bummed about smt).
Native Italian speaker here, the reason why italian is described to have gemination and not long vowels is because long vowels only occur in (not word final) stressed open syllables, but gemination can still occur in unstressed syllables. Is it maybe the opposite in Swedish?
If Queen Kristina ever noticed this when she traveled through Italy and stayed in Rome, she probably might have thought it was a hilarious or strange coincidence. She was Swedish by birth but Italian by choice (she actually even mentioned once in a letter that she considered herself naturalised among the Italians, so… yeah).
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Also I don't speak either language really well but I think if somebody speaks both side by side it's blatantly obviously they're different
YOU'RE SWEDISH?! This whole time I thought that you were british
He speaks Swedish without an accent. It's a dead give away someone's a Swede or has lived several years in Sweden.
to be fair their german pronunciation is flawless (or at least it sounds like that to me, a fairly advanced learner of german)
@@martinfalkjohansson5204 they*
@@Laittth their*
@@ASocialistTransGirl o yeah sorry i forgot
Here in Croatia, some people think that Croatian sounds like Swedish and I'm just like wtf. I think it might be because of pitch accent, but the pitch accent patterns are different. Also, the staccato-like prosody of Swedish is pretty different from Croatian prosody.
As a native English Speaker, I have the opposite experience to yours in that I feel like the vowel inventories in NO way are similar, especially since Swedish's rounding system is something else to take in account to how the IPA actually supports the Swedish vowel inventory, but the prosody in combination of the long-short sound system are similar but not the same. In my experience with language with pitch or tone, me being Southern Vietnamese, tone or pitch tend to lose their full contour in actual speech, meaning if a language's vocal range can be put on different levels like from 1 - 5, native speakers will minimize effort by making that range MUCH smaller by limiting the range to something like 2 - 3.5, or something like that. When I hear Swedish spoken in casual contexts, I feel like I know what word is the most emphasized before laying low for the rest of the sentence, and that's how I feel like I can summarize Italian prosody, except it occurs more often.
That's my experience, of course, and my experience can't overlap others' perception.
I think another factor that could explain why Swedish is seen as sounding as similar to Italian is that it's singing with quite open syllables while the stereotypical Germanic language is basically the Swedish cook muppet gibberish, so when people realise that Swedish is not at all like the swedish cook muppet gibberish they are took off guard and their first thought is "mmh Swedish is singing and has open syllable… then it sounds like Italian !"
I have actually thought about this as a Swede. Also for japanese to a lesser extent. And this is mainly talking about the standard swedish dialect.
Just my 2 cents as a native Italian regarding importance of consonant vs vowel length: i feel like consonant length is more important in Italian because long vowels in words can be completely omitted and still sound 100% native. While if you pronounce a a long consonant as a short it wouldn't be seen as native speech at all. Another note to add is i feel like people in the center/south tend to overemphasize one part of the phrase and make the vowel in the stressed part longer, while in the north i notice people talk more staccato, so this is where the stereotype might come from and why it's often not found in phonology guides.
So I've been learning several languages throughout my life so far, one being Italian up to C1 level (English is not my native language either).
Now I'm on Swedish and I always wondered why out of all other language options my brain likes to combine Italian and Swedish, like wanting to use an Italian article with a Swedish noun. Or throwing in Swedish words when I actually want to say something in Italian.
And because I'm aware of the differences in the language melody it never made sense to me but maybe that similar concept of combining long and short vowels makes my brain go bananas. Thanks for that interesting video!
the secret to say ANY Italian word is to pronounce every single letter you read. You will make no mistake.
That's not entirely true. While Italian spelling is extremely regular once you know the rules, there are still several digraphs and trigraphs to keep in mind, like gn, gli and sci. Those are not pronounced like their individual letters would suggest.
As an Italian living in Sweden, I can confirm that they DO NOT sound alike xD
When Italian develops that "weird" phoneme found in "stjäla" and "sked", then well talk. Until then... nej. :)
Does, in fact, the word 'legend' have a schwa sound in the any of the various major dialects of English? I'm inclined to consider the final vowel in the word /ɪ/ rather than /ə/.