Retreat to Taiwan - A Race Against Time
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- Опубліковано 20 вер 2018
- Knowing that they were losing the Chinese Civil War, Chiang Kai-shek and the Nationalist government undertook a massive retreat to the island of Taiwan. In this video, we look at pieces of this year long endeavor.
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This explains why so many Taiwanese are of Sichuanese descent, I was born in China Yunnan and came to NZ when I was 4 and I met a few Taiwanese who said their grandparents came from Sichuan it was very interesting. Also recently just 2 years back I went on a guided tour of NZ's South Island with my Mother and the Tour guide was Sichuanese but was from Taiwan along with another man we met who moved to the USA in the 90s from Taiwan whom was also of Sichuanese descent. Also some people in Taiwan still speak Sichuanhua around Taichung and I had a few conversations with them in Yunnanese and we could communicate.
Thanks for watching and sharing your story. I want to spend some time writing about the Taiwanese diaspora someday too.
@@Asianometry
Are you calling them 'communist bandits'? Or are you quoting kmt calling them 'communist bandits'?
It could be a different Taiwan if KMT did not go to Taiwan.
@@thornados4969 it would probably be a communist taiwan
We’ll be back
No you won’t
Until 202-s, as when CCP & their PLA come across the Strait
hope so.
Nathaniel Tan if China’s going it’s taking Taiwan with it
You can't
Interesting since my grand parents and both direct families including my mom/dad (as small children) retreated with the KMT to Taiwan. Do not know much of the history since I was born in the USA.
Yes, it was quite common for Chinese people who had fled to Taiwan to later migrate to the United States. Prospects in Taiwan were not looking too good, given how crowded it was and also given the threat of an invasion by the Chinese Communists. As a result, many "Waishengren" Taiwanese migrated to the United States in the decades following the retreat of the Nationalists to Taiwan; most emigrants from Taiwan were well-educated Waishengren, rather than "Benshengren" (Native Taiwanese), and they sought countries like America due to the greater civil liberties, the higher quality of education, and the greater amount of opportunities.
AWESOME
@@mr.mysteriousspyman4016 The majority of Formosans (Taiwanese before 1952) had Chinese ancestry before the Chinese refugees or Waishengren arrival in Taiwan.
@@thornados4969 "Chinese" as in (mostly) ethnic Han Chinese, mostly from the Qing dynasty era (some from the Ming dynasty, some from elsewhere such as Southeast Asia diaspora, and some from the Republic of China). They were also mostly from various settlements along the southeast coast of China, speaking mostly the "Min Nan" or "Hakka" languages (part of the Sinitic language family).
For the record, in order to be "native" to somewhere, you simply have to be born and/or raised there. Furthermore, it helps if your family has been there for a few generations. This doesn't imply that your family has to be "indigenous" (usually meaning thousands of years), which is a distinctive word. I didn't say that Benshengren were "indigenous Taiwanese", which obviously is better applied to the Austronesians in Taiwan. I said that they were "native" Taiwanese.
I use the term "native" to apply to regional identities as well (i.e. not just applying to sovereign states or countries). For example, someone who is born in the U.S. state of California would be considered "native" to California. Or you would simply call it their "birth state" (in that context; a state referring to an administrative subdivision of the United States).
Waishengren who had moved to Taiwan immediately after the end of the Chinese Civil War obviously wouldn't have been native to Taiwan due to the fact that they were born and raised in China. Their children who subsequently grew up in Taiwan and were possibly born there would be regarded as native Taiwanese.
Note: On a personal note, I myself (along with my two brothers) was born in a territory that my parents had only recently migrated to, and we emigrated from that territory a few years after I was born (during my early childhood). This means, theoretically, that I myself was effectively an "immigrant" within this territory, even though I had literally been born there and it was all I knew up until the age of 5, which is when we left. Ever since leaving the territory, I have always regarded myself as native to that territory, even though I'm culturally far removed from it and much more accustomed to the territory where I subsequently moved, which is also where my mother grew up (although she wasn't born here either). So, this is an example of how the terminology "native" actually works. It is not synonymous with "indigenous". Obviously, I don't consider myself to be indigenous to the place where I was born.
@@mr.mysteriousspyman4016 I got your point about the "native" born and aborigines as you elaborated the immigration of early Chinese settlers in Taiwan. The early settlers from China were mostly men in fact the Qing dynasty initially prohibited sending people for fear about the Taiwan aborigines. So many Chinese men eventually married with the aboriginal women and most Taiwanese now have mixed ancestry and no one talks about it. The rule of Waishengren to the Formosans has politically influenced the Taiwanese outlook towards Sinicization including Waishengren official language, history and culture. The local history, customs and dialects among the early settlers were prohibited in the early rule of the Waishengren. Many Taiwanese don't know much about their own Taiwan history.
A lot of people talk about the retreat to Taiwan in the history of the Chinese Civil War, but they go over it so briefly. I'm glad you actually went into detail about how it was executed and how it happened. Not to mention all those museum artifacts taken to Taiwan were practically saved from Mao's rule, because he destroyed a lot of Chinese history.
It could be a different Taiwan if KMT did not go to Taiwan. Taiwan could be a Japanese-speaking island country because before KMT, Taiwanese were mainly Japanese educated people.
These history videos are really interesting. Thank you!
My great grandfather got left behind. He was in the Nationalist army. My great grandmother made it Taiwan somehow with my at the time baby grandpa in her arms the whole way. Her feet were also bound with traditional foot bindings. It must’ve been so painful for her. She lived so long tho she lived in America even until she was 109. I’m glad she got to enjoy a few good years of peace at her end.
This feels like the Alamo, holding out until the last minute.
My family is OG Taiwanese. We came from China to Taiwan in the 1700s. Don't forget that Taiwan already had Han people living there
@Steven Young I know that...they should've recognized them too. This was 5 months ago I forgot if this video talked about it.
@@iyang2341 barely any of Taiwan is the og pop lmao
@@jackx341 No, majority of Taiwan is OG pop lol, the mainlanders make up only 14% of the pop
@@iyang2341 The conflict of China vs Taiwan started from the arrival of that 14% waishengren OG group to Taiwan.
Ye. Interesting since I learn the info in mainland and with limited info
Thank god the Kmt Took there culture and History with them
What a time it would've been.
Long live the R.O.C.!
Very Very Interesting, as my wife is from Taiwan and her parents are from Zhejiang Province in China. Her parents went to Taiwan on their honeymoon in the 1950's, but were told not to go back to China as the situation was too unstable for them. Her father never returned to China, but if the truth is known, he would have had a better life in Taiwan.
Very interesting story. Thank you for sharing
@@Asianometry It's interesting because, we live in New Zealand and quite often hear only one side of the story, I.e.the Communist were the villains, I am currently in Taiwan on holiday, and I am beginning to understand or realise that there are different sides and angles to this story.
The war brought suffering to a lot of people on both sides of the Strait. It’s a sad thing it happened.
@@Asianometry Because of elaborated China's civil war and fleeing of some Chinese to Taiwan, the story of Taiwanese majority before the Chinese refugees are ignored. The Chinese refugees were estimated 1.1M compared with almost 7M Taiwanese residents.
Plan B, Have coffee and regroup on Taiwain
Thus Mr. Brown was born
Good history lesson. I’ve subscribed.
Currently traveling in Taipei and this video is a great reference point. Also, this is why I get the feeling from walking around that Taiwan is fiercely independent.
Most Taiwanese people didn't come with the KMT tho. The majority came from China way before that. For example, my family came to Taiwan from China in the 1700s.
@@iyang2341 Correct. Most were settlers and spoke Taiwanese-hokkien, a Taiwan home-grown variation of Fokkien after hundred of years migration. Taiwan could be different today if the KMT did not come to Taiwan.
never heard of the retreat/battle for hanio island. knew the k had the island for a little while.
In order to defeat the enemy at home, you have to defeat the enemy abroad first.
And inversely.
How is Taipei a "position of strength'?
The Taiwan Strait. The best way to distance yourself from the enemy is a body of water, especially a turbulent one like the Taiwan Strait. Rough waters that would've given the KMT time to reorganize.
@@taiwandxt6493 cope
A castle with a moat would be a position of strength too
The history could be different in Taiwan if KMT did not go to Taiwan.
My dad says as his family was fleeing China to Taiwan he saw people on the shore gunned down by the PLA.
知道那时民众多痛恨蒋政府吗，可以去了解一下“返乡团”。
Guys, do you ever sometimes wonder whether Asia today would be at harmony and peace had the benevolent Nationalist China (ROC 🇹🇼) won the Chinese Civil War? Personally, I think things would at least be much better. If only we had some kind of time machine, brother. :(
1. North Korea would have been quickly destroyed, reuniting all of Korea under a democratic republic.
2. The Indian subcontinent would have been one happy family, and China and India would remain close allies and partners.
3. The Tibetans would be peacefully practicing Buddhism under an elected government.
4. Russia would have been changed into a pro-Western democracy, one way or another.
5. China and America would be the world's foremost superpowers, and best friends together leading the Western and Eastern civilizations, perhaps forever and ever. :)
【 USA🇺🇸 India🇮🇳 Japan🇯🇵, South Korea 🇰🇷, Philippines 🇵🇭 Singapore 🇸🇬, France 🇫🇷, Australia 🇦🇺 Ukraine 🇺🇦 Europe 🇪🇺 Israel 🇮🇱 and China🇹🇼】
Not necessarily.
Chaing Kai Shek more or less adopted the Soviet model, had a cult of personality even. Maybe not to the same extent as Mao, but it was there.
So I'm not sure how history would turn out. I think being stuck in Taiwan probably led to the KMT softening their grip on power when they realized taking China back wasn't going to happen.
Wow benevolent
0:14 wut
Wut
Both sides in the Chinese Civil war called each other “bandits” in certain situations.
Based on the treaty of San Francisco in 1952, Article 2(b), Japan DID NOT cede Formosa and the Pescadores to the Nationalists. "Japan renounces all right, title and claim..." Japan gave up territorial rights, but ceded Formosa and the Pescadores to NO ONE.
Okay? But initially the plan was to cede it as part of the claim's renounciation to the China at the time which was the Republic of China, don't try to put the nationalists in a bad light, they retreated fairly from a force that was looking to kill.
@@ss_super_steve No plan about Taiwan sovereignty. The treaty of Taipei was only a peace treaty between Japan-loser and Allies-winner where Chiang's group was appointed by the US as representative occupier. Chiang used ROC in the treaty to second the main San Francisco treaty.
@@ss_super_steve the USA only gave Taiwan to the Republic of China, it's no different than the Soviet Union giving most of Bialystok to Belarus and a part of the Carpathians along with Lvov to Ukraine.
This is just arguing semantics. "Japan renounces all right, title, and claim." This means they renounced their sovereignty. In essence, ceding the territories to the Nationalists.
Do you think Chiang Kai-shek was a hero or not? I know lots of Americans for some reason seem to always attack him, scream that he was a "totalitarian dictator", but is that really the truth, all things considered?
Sort of yes, he was similar to Napoleon in a way in which he did take power for himself but did actually end up helping the people, bit by all means he should be seen in a good light as he did try to save China from the blood hungry communists, think of it like this:
While both Chiang and Mao wanted power for themselves, Mao wanted to literally destroy china and it's people through totalitarianism and misguidance. Chiang on the other hand was truly fighting for the people as he knew they would die under the communists.
PS: Totalitarianism is basically oppressive socialism/communism, so Chiang couldn't be totalitarian as he opposed the communists all together and was not one of them.
@@ss_super_steveeither Chiang or Mao?
I choose Chiang because Mao's rule had lots of suffering and starvation in the long run which lost of the lives of 72 million people
If Chiang was the victor in his civil war I firmly believe China would eventually have broken into different countries (my guess is probably 3 or 4) with his portion being the largest of them as of course with so many people comes with many different ideals and the Soviet Union influence is inevitable considering the state of China at the time
@@TheKing-uu7jn It's good that you're on the right side of history, but your statement is about half correct, while we don't know for sure one theory might be is they they would enforce statehood on a communist Xinjiang, Mongolia and possibly communist china would retreat to Manchuria effectively becoming a Soviet satellite, but overall they would most likely fall and turn when the soviets would collapse.
@@ss_super_steve Whoa, bro, are you even Asian, how are YOU such an expert on Asian politics and ideologies?? I'm really impressed, dude!! XD
@@ArnoldTeras I'm Latvian, and that is simply because I learned a lot in October 2022 and on when I became interested deeply within the Republic of China (Taiwan) and Communist China (PRC) political situation and as per my interests (which developed back in around 2018), which helped me learn the political situation and history altogether, I still have some small bits to go, but for the most part I am quite knowledgeable in this topic as I did my research intuitively.
I even know that another reason (on a domestic level) to support the ROC is that Latvia and the ROC established their diplomatic ties quite early (about right after the defeat of the warlords) and the ROC was an advocate in the UN for Baltic (and overall eastern block) freedom from Soviet occupation and oppression.
great leap froward adn the cultuara revolutoin......................
Despite losing the civil war I want to thank Chiang Kai-shek for at least holding on to Taiwan. The Republic of China is still the only symbol of freedom for the most populated group of people in the world. I hope freedom will return to mainland china even not under the ROC flag.
Chinese Stalinist-Hoxhaists might overtake the ROC in overthrowing the CCP.
@@johnchristiancanda3320 Sorry I don't follow. You are saying the communist may overtake the ROC and then the CCP? I'm not being a troll just want to make sure what you are saying.
@@user-ul5nl7rq1s No. I am just worried that the fledgling Chinese Stalinist-Hoxhaists or other Mainland Chinese New Left force may wrest control of Mainland China from Hsi Chin-p'ing and the CCP of Bandits before the ROC liberates the Mainland. Let's not forget that there was also a Maoist presence in the Tien An Men Square Protests of 1989 because the Maoists opposed Teng Hsiao-p'ing's reforms. It would have been better had the US fully supported Chinese President Chiang Kai-shek's Project National Glory.
@Anak Borneo If you are in Taiwan you can go in front of the Presidential building and say "president Tsai is an SOB" while waving the PRC flag" and nothing will happen to you. Can you go in front of Tiananmen square and yell "president Xi is an SOB" while waving an ROC flag and not get arrested?.
This is the kind of freedom I am talking about.
@Anak Borneo I don't crave for something I already have. Tell me how is that idiocy and childishness to criticize your own government? So you admit in China you don't have those freedom? I guess I did't need to go to China to figure that one out.
This is nothing against Chinese people or Chinese culture which I love both, but what I am against is the Chinese Communist government I'm sure you know the difference.
First
modernize tiawna and ahve evyhitng!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!modenize veintam or korea and have evyethign!!!!! mdernize north korea investmnet.
My Great Grandfather has Contributed to the liberation of the Mainland from the Capitalist Bandits…
🇨🇳🇨🇳
By liberated you mean killed and oppressed right? No land from the PLA were ever "liberated", liberty means freedom and rights and the right to self determination the PLA and PRC were never fighting for those, they were fighting for Mao as did the SS for Hitler, total control for oppression and ultimately extermination through misguidance.
By the way in what way we're the Nationalists bandits? The only possible way for so would be if they took treasures to Taiwan, but those were already theirs and we're moving them to not be taken.
Sounds like another wu mao over here
@@Lucas_5092 i got 0 cents for saying this capitalist bandits… how much did your westerncia pay you???
@@leecheahsheng6140 Your undying love with CCP is understandable for people being indoctrinated with ideals of communists revolution and portray evils to the enemy of the communists. Being fair, it was Dr.Sun''s revolutionary principles which unite the 1911 (Xinhai) revolution to change the dynasty into democracy among Chinese people in China. Dr.Sun founded KMT and at that time. the communism was not born yet in China. So basically, communism was not contributor of the revolution. In fact, Mao was a supporter and a high ranking KMT member. 16 years after Xinhai revolution, Mao founded CPP and promised other members of KMT to fight common enemies the Japanese in China. Yet after the Sino-Japanese war, Mao and CPP wanted power to hit back the KMT and the civil broke out. That' means historically, CPP was a traitor of KMT.
@@Lucas_5092 omg seems like another LGBTQ dog furry gay USA puppet who think USA is democracy is here lmao